Unlimited PTO just means "Discretionary PTO" as in, at your manager's discretion. Was at Walmart when they went to this ridiculous policy a few years ago, and the first day I needed to take, my boss said, "Is it really necessary? We're really busy this time of year, and I'm not sure I can spare anyone." I gave my notice and found another job with real PTO.
EDWARD NORTON; ....SO....MY JOB FROM NOW ON IS GUARDING YOUR SECRET.....I CAN DO THAT FROM HOME....MAKE SURE THE WAGE IS DEPOSITED EVERY MONTH,,,,OR ELSE....
it's the selling and the lying part that's the worst. Like... if only they were honest and said they do it for the greed, that would be so much better.
Unlimited PTO often leads to employees taking LESS vacation because: 1. No clear benchmarks = anxiety about how much is "too much" 2. Companies don't have to pay out unused days when you leave 3. People compete to seem most dedicated by taking minimal time off 4. Manager subjective discretion > guaranteed days 5. Harder to track fair usage and prevent burnout Bottom line: Most workers prefer knowing exactly what they're entitled to.
WORKER sheep please become a Father/Mother and create new life to become lower paid future good workers competing against billions for barely survivable inflation adjusted salary.
The change is simpler than that. PTO goes from an obligation - a debt the company owes you, to the company owing you nothing. In either case you may be gifted paid time off, but I wouldn't count on it.
I had Unlimited PTO. I used more days than when I had a set amount. If you are doing any of the crap you mentioned than it's a You problem tbh. I don't work to impress anyone. I do my job and I clock out.
I am new here in the US (from Europe) and my current job is this unlimited PTO, took me a while to understand exactly how that works, and honestly, I really dislike and feel uncomfortable about that. I prefer take something which is my RIGHT instead something that is “manager’s discretion” whatever.. super weird.
Just ask for the time you need, and if your manager says no, go to HR. Make it a headache for them. All they can do is fire you, which they might do anyway.
I do my job in person, with tools. When I'm on PTO, no one expects me to do anything. If you can do your job with a laptop, in 3 years an Indian will be doing your job with a laptop.
100%, the mandatory part is so needed!!! I had a job were technically we had a lot of vacation time but if you dared to take more than two days in a row and more than once a month.... you could expect never to get a promotion ever again. So literally no one ever took any vacation time and once expired they were lost and never paid so.... in reality all that vacation time just meant you had like an extra paycheck once you quit the job.
@@kgreene460 No, because then everyone is expected to take the pay out and you end up screwing up your fellow workers that actually want the PTO. Mandatory is the way to go!
I hated being said by the company 6 times per month to book my PTO to the last hour, half a year in advance, which days, how long.. how the hell I am supposed to know what the weather will be in 4 months when I'd be taking vacation??
It's not easier to deny requests off. If your request are denied then you just leave the company. Nothing weird about it. PTO is part of my compensation so if you deny it I would request a higher salary as a result. Then leave if that's denied lol.
Pfft! I take PTO every chance that I get. I trivialize “guilt tripping”, and even file complaints to the labor board when they try to delay or deny it. My favorite part is taking all of my PTO accumulated days just before quitting for good.
I think the key is "labor board." Most people in the US don't have a labor board, if they take PTO every chance they get, they get permanent time off (fired).
@@bobbobertson7568 I never typically stay more than three years in a job, anyway. I don’t have any debts or major expenses such as pets or kids, so it’s not so bad when I get fired. I own 1/10th of my older brother’s house so no rent worries. Nowadays I just do gig work.
@@bobbobertson7568 I’m not too worried about that. My expenses in life are minimal, and nowadays I do app delivery, courier, tasks, and rideshare work to get by.
My last company had unlimited PTO, and they still expected you to attend calls and work while you were on vacation. Fortunately most of my coworkers knew what OOO and PTO meant.
I love my unlimited PTO. I usually take 7 weeks a year. I drop the calendar for my team and set a simple rule. I need one week in between one of them being gone. I cover their work when they are gone. A week in between allows me to catch up on my work. So in January two of my three folks will take 1 and 2 weeks off each. One will do a week then a break and then 2 weeks and a break. The next person could take a week or more off after. They can still take off for being sick during those week cool-offs if necessary. The only strict rule is they can't be off when I'm off unless it is an emergency. My boss just approves my time off without ever asking. He just expects me along with the rest of his senior team to make arrangements.
@ its enough. During my paternity leave I had about 12 weeks. I am glad I was able to spend plenty of time with my wife and daughter. However, I don't like to be off of work. I like what I do. I get bored after about 6 days of consecutive days off. Maybe other people want more time but nearly 2 months a year is enough for me.
@@izzo2998 ehh I hear you. But, I work from home. I have for a long time. I enjoy every bit of my family 24/7. I also like my career. In good at it. So I don't really have complaints about my work. I am definitely in a unicorn situation with my job
My old company had regular PTO. Then went unlimited. I took my usual 2-week vacation with the new system and then I had to extend it bc of weather and flight cancelations 2 days in a row. My manager started giving me shit about it, I said well I used to have 27 days of PTO. Then I asked how much is unlimited. HR said it's up to your manager. When I left the company they did pay out your old PTO balance. But new hires with the unlimited system do not receive that nice exit vacation payoff.
That's a good point. If they change it while employed, your previous contract vacation time prevails and the "unlimited PTO" is effectively just a policy. But for new hires, it becomes contractual.
@@aluisiousCalifornia and Colorado are the only two that have to pay out. All other states, your accrued PTO is just dust in the wind. And if you’re in one of those two states and stay with the company, your PTO will stop accruing and just drain out as you use it until it’s 0, then you’re “unlimited”. Total scam, and anyone who says otherwise is lying or gullible.
I'm Mexican, I work in IT tech support taking calls from Americans in English and for Canadians in French. I have literally not had a 1 second of rest in over 3 years. As soon as I finish one call, I have to take the next call. There is not a single second in-between calls. I literally work every single second of my 8 hour shift. I've had to work during Christmas and New Year's for 3 years, and even on Christmas and New Year's, the calls never stop. I would welcome PTO if there were such a thing where I work at.
@thiagocars Do you think I have options as a Mexican living in Mexico? This job required (not a bachelor's) a master's degree in Computer Science, being fluent in French and English. If you think that I have options, you obviously have no idea how competitive the Mexican labor market is.
@@leonardo899 i understand, and feel sorry for that. I am originally from Brazil, moved to different countries working in IT, changed paths few times, went out of the comfort zone, but each one has a different perspective!
Bruh, Mexican culture highly discourages time off or breaks. They shame their fellow coworkers and even family from taking breaks or time off. They alongside the Japanese tie for working more hours than any other nation on Earth, it’s sad.
I've been in that situation, it's soul crushing. I work on the back end call center systems now and I can tell you for certain, not all call centers drive their agents that hard. I would try to find another call center to work at, before you take the job, see if you can get an idea of how many calls an agent is expected to take per day and how much after call work they allow, break policies, etc. If that isn't an option, take all that experience they're forcing down your throat and see if you can get promoted or laterally moved to a position that's off the phones at least part of the day. Maybe team lead, QA evaluator or even agent trainer. You take so many calls you ought to be pretty good at it by now, right? Leverage all that experience and play it like you're the expert agent now and want to show others how to do it, a "force multiplier" Look for opportunities that are adjacent to the actual front line agent job. You seriously have like the hardest job (no BS) in that whole place right now, anything else will be easy by comparison. Your goal is to replace that grind work (low pay more mistakes allowed) with responsibility work (better pay less mistakes allowed) Good luck amigo!
I had over three weeks of PTO built up with my last job when I got laid off. Getting paid out the PTO hours was nice. My current job has unlimited PTO and I know if I ever get laid off I’ll be paid nothing other than hours worked and owed commission. It’s a scam.
@@marceloantunes998I’m not sure what you mean? No company gives true “unlimited” PTO. A girl I work with is about to get fired for taking too many days off and we have “unlimited PTO.” The real scam comes from them being able to fire you without paying out unused PTO hours. That’s the reason they offer unlimited.
I've worked at places with "unlimited PTO" and it was either denied, or cancelled at the last minute. The only time I got a few days off was holidays, because the office was closed, or a couple of times I said either I take the time off or I would lose my shit and quit.
Thank you so much for talking about this - this goes hand-in-hand with the super-evil idea of labor utilization. (Would love for you to do a video on that!)
In the UK, the minimum annual leave allowance is 24 days. If you work with a company for a long time, this increases. I have never heard of any company over here allowing “unlimited” annual leave.
My company transitioned over to unlimited PTO a few years back. Even though my manager has never denied any of my PTO requests, I still don't really like it. It's mostly because I have no idea how much PTO is too much. So I still just use the old system. I know, I used to have X amount of PTO before, and based on the prior company policy, I know I would have Y amount of PTO in my current position. I take that amount and add another 5 more days or so to that and take PTO for all those hours. I just hate having to play this mental gymnastics with my employer though.
Two weeks your first year, then three weeks from years two through five. After five years, make it four weeks. Don't feel ashamed. You aren't taking much time off. Two weeks after one year used to be standard. Where I live, manufacturing tradesman are given a measly 5 days vacation after working 12 months of 50-hour-plus workweeks. Add to that, maybe 7 or 8 holidays, far fewer than what banks or the governments give.
We have "unlimited pto" but its 4 weeks, then and additional 10 days at managers discretion. Your HR rep or your manager should know how much is "too much" If they dont, they're lying.
Joshua is 100% correct. My company went to this a few years ago. I am lucky to get more than a week and a half a year. They just lumped extra expectations on us so if we take a reasonable amount of time off and don’t meet expectations well then that is on us, if we work hard enough to meet expectations and don’t take adequate time off we’ll then that is also on us. F them I updated my resume and am working on taking permanent leave from the organization.
Buddy, buddy...don't take permanent leave. Just take a week of time off. Then extend it. Keep extending it until they fire you. Don't make it easy for these pricks.
@@aluisious, I have considered that. Actually if I just disappear it would take them at least 6 weeks to navigate the job abandonment process. I have seen others disappear over the years and this is the typical timeframe it takes them. If I did it during the holidays I bet it would take them closer to two months. While that would be some serious coin I want to maintain my rehire status. While I doubt I would ever return I like to keep the options in my favor.
Companies don’t pay out on unused vacation anymore. My company, for example, automatically expires vacation days at the end of year, so it is impossible for you to accumulate unused vacation days.
I know they do this with sick time, but I thought it was against the law to do it with vacation time. Those companies I know still pay out unused vacation time.
A company has to make it clear that vacation is use it or lose it. I've worked at two companies that allow banked PTO to roll over to the next year, but it's capped. So you lose anything over the cap at the end of the year. And you do get a payout when you leave even if it's use it or lose it, just depends on what you have saved up for the year.
you get off christmas and thanksgiving now but they only give you 5 points for sick days god help you if you catch something deadly you might as well just quit
@@morganseppy5180 im one of the few full timers where i work at but i got lucky as hell to get it. and im currently praying i dont lose my job cause of my lupus condition killing my immune system caused me to get super sick during double point days
@@morganseppy5180 being full time at walmart isnt all that. im even worrying about my job cause i got sick during their double point month. and im relying on their third party to approve a loa to save my job cause were never given enough sick time
It is a scam because it assumes you use the same amount of hours you were allotted in previous years. And it turns it into a system of use it or lose it. Most employees don't use it because they are afraid to and/or are so busy they can't find time to use it. One of my friends would take his and made sure to use the amount of hours comparable to the previous years amount he was given. And if they ever denied it he would bring it up.
My company just switched to unlimited PTO. It was nice when they paid me out my accrued PTO, since I was near the limit and the extra pay was more than my yearly bonus. But then I volunteered to work Thursday and Friday after Christmas, which would usually be holiday pay, but now it's not holiday pay but instead we get a "comp day". That's right, I now have infinity+2 days of PTO. Guess who has two thumbs and won't be working any more days like the last two!
This scam could be quite costly to companies in the end. People who take part in embezzlement normally do not take time off. It is difficult to keep schemes going when you are not physically present. A smart company wants people to take off significant time every year. The best way to do this is to give the employees a generous PTO allotment and then require them to take at least 2 weeks of it in one chunk.
I had unlimited pto, but it wasn’t really. There was an online portal, I would have to put my holidays on, but they would always get rejected. I went 18 months without a break. Then my mom got ill. And I needed time to take her to and from hospital, and then a few day with her at home. I wasn’t aloud the time. I couldn’t afford not to get paid, so my sister did it. I no longer work at that company.
Companies don’t pay out on unused vacation anymore. My company, for example, automatically expires vacation days at the end of year, so it is impossible for you to accumulate unused vacation days year by year. If you leave mid-year without having taken vacation days you lose them. Either way you aren’t getting a payout for them.
If you are being given all vacation hours at the very beginning of the year, you didn't earn the vacation time. If you accumulate vacation hours every paycheck, then they have to pay whatever you didn't use because you are being compensated for the time you have cumulatively worked.
In countries where you have legally mandated minimums you cannot contract out of those obligations. So a company offering unlimited annual leave still has to offer the legal minimum of 4 weeks and pay out any left over upon employment ending, they can just choose to also pay employees above and beyond the legal minimum. The US needs to do better 🤑
I hate my last job, but I will say this. Since 2020 they've done unlimited pto and for a good 3 years straight I worked like 9 months out of the year. It really depends on where you're at
I like traveling around the globe (Japan, Philippines, Guam, Namibia, Argentina, etc.) and the only thing I care about is being able to get away at least three weeks in a row.
This is why I don't care about pto, vacation days, or sick days. I care about how much I'm paid. Period. You either manage your own funds, or you let someone do it for you with their authority. When I want time off, I take it. If my work plays games, I go somewhere else.
Easy way to work with this - tell the hiring manager during the interview phase that you will be taking the unlimited PTO very seriously and expect your requests for time off to be approved without any question. If you are hired your manager will know what you expect and if you aren't hired, you missed a bullet.
Rather than unlimited PTO, the best kind of PTO should allow employees to PTO whenever they want regardless of "schedule clashes", "staggered vacation periods", "PTO blackout periods" or whatnot. There is no point is having unlimited or high PTO if you can't take it whenever you need to.
Yup. If nothing else its a great way for bean counters to figure out what positions can be phased out. "Rick hit all his benchmarks last year but he took a three day weekend every month ... makes me wonder if we could integrate his duties into another position"
My company went unlimited PTO a few years ago. I had 6 weeks of vacation then, and I am sure to take 6 to 7 weeks every year since it started. I've heard a lot of horror stories about this at other companies, but where I work I've never had any vacation denied or questioned.
Usually, "unlimited PTO" is most seen in start-ups from individuals that intend to make a business that doesn't suck. It's the only reason anyone can say anything good about it. Because it's not actually the PTO, but the fact they found a job of not-suck.
Lol I hit the jackpot. Got a new job 4 months ago, job post didn’t say anything about salary or benefits. Anyways they have unlimited PTO as long as you deliver your jobs. I was skeptic about it but in this time I have seen my coworkers take out multiple days out specially on the holidays. But all my previous jobs it was such a hassle to request pto my last one only gave me 3 days after the first 6 month and then 5 after the first year….and they would ask the reason for the PTO and they will keep making follow up questions. After that I learned just say for medical reasons and they cannot ask you anything else.
These videos just confirm the fact that most of the people out there who act like they have decency are just phonies. It's really, really depressing when you realize how bad it is. People will screw you over rather than look at you.
The thought of unlimited PTO always made me think of musical chairs. I always hated that game and I swear every time the chairs are always taken and I have to pick up the slack from people taking PTO - I would *NEVER* mess with a company that did unlimited (especially if they meant it).
I had unlimited PTO at my last role. Didn't take any time off for a year. Took 3 weeks of PTO that I had been planning for that entire year and travelled halfway around the world to a foreign country. One week into my vacation they had a "reduction in force". I got a week of PTO and then terminated.
Unlimited PTO at my company (I am a Director there) is partly a psychological trick. Most ended up taking less time off. But, if they request it, they can take as much as 20% of total work time off per year at a maximum. I take 4 to 5 weeks per year and know several employees that do it. To be clear, I have never, not once, disapproved time off. Ever. I don't know any other manager that has either.
You should do a segment on crap like this: There is a video here on youtube by a channel called First Coast News and the video is titled "How To Get the Job and Promotion You Want in the New Year"
Not on the topic of the video, but I really like clicking on your videos and not having to skip through an intro that is just a copy paste of parts inside it. :)
They have shown studies that people take less time off with unlimited PTO. Joshua covers what happens in this video. I know the states that declare vacation time as an employee asset have to pay out unused vacation time. This is the work around as there is no set balance given to you. The other problem is if you take 6 weeks I have seen it brought up in reviews.
1:20 so is that a mentality or are they getting overtime or sales commissions? Cause if they’re just doing it for the feels…uh fuck that noise. I’m not in a corporate environment-I work retail at a grocery store. I do a lot-some might say extra work-but I choose to do it and don’t expect anything from anybody else and I don’t expect recognition, but I set up night crew, unload trucks and generally facilitate things to go well. My years working third shift night stock as lead exposed me to just about every emergency and issue that might come up, from equipment failure, to junkies overdosing in the parking lot.
Unlimited pto is outright illegal. To give someone paid time off is unheard of and can't be justified legally. How is that person employed in the first place. There is a number of legal paid free days you can have each year, including national holidays. More than that, it can't be paid. You may get unpaid leave, or sick days, but can't have them paid by the company.
Unlimited PTO still has to comply to laws, which means that they can't make it below the minimum annual leave allowance in the country. In most countries this isn't too big a deal, the difference between 30 days a year and unlimited is just between a couple of guaranteed days and unlimited potential days. The USA offers no guaranteed PTO because it's a capitalistic nightmare.
Or you could be like my current company where they did away with unlimited PTO because of a few managers abusing it, then replaced it with VERY limited PTO that the unused balance of does NOT get paid out to you upon your departure.
My employer offers "Unlimited PTO", and whenever I ask for PTO I get it. But my boss's boss will show the team a chart of everyone's (anonymized) PTO count for the year, and make it clear that we need to be mindful of how much time we take off. So it's pretty obvious that we are not to take advantage of the Unlimited-ness of PTO. I took 13 days off in 2024, and I know that I probably could not take much more than that without raising some eyebrows. Thanks.
I worked at a very large, well known industrial company that converted to unlimited pto. I took a lot. Went on multiple multi week trips, took the holidays off, etc. I also had a 12 week paternity leave which I got so bored with I had to cut it short. So for me it was all good. But I was on a good team with a good culture and being considered a “high performer” never had anybody question my time off. So it’s not always a straight up scam, although I see where it can appear that way.
Its funny there is no such thing as Unlimited Paid Time Off in the UK. Noone would turn up for work ever and companies would not be able to say anything about it. You can't discriminate against people for taking time off, in fact you need to encourage them to take it. Settling up at the end of the year is no longer allowed except in special cases.
I am am one a the few for whom it actually worked. My manager had the same life situation as i, having a couple of kids and being of the middle age. We just didnt care about pto shaming, worked great. For the young and single employees it was a completely different story.
In France, we have at least 1 month of paid time off (mandated by law). And depending on your work regimen, family circumstances and plenty other factors, you can get even more (still regarding the law). I like a lot of things about the USA, but certainly not its work culture which is stupid and toxic.
Canada has a rule where you get 4% of your pay on every cheque - whether or not yoh take time. It represents vacation pay. However, it also absolves companies of having ti offer pto, since you already get vacation pay..companies might let you get days off without pay.. or you might not actually get any days off.
If employers cared, most don’t, they’d show it. Commit (in writing) to 6 weeks of vacation per year. Increasing to 8 weeks after 10 years of employment. But they don’t, and there’s a reason for that: they’re not invested in you having a life outside your cubicle.
Ive only ever worked for one company that had unlimited PTO. Was like pulling teeth to get manager approval, and I had to convince my coworkers to cover some of my projects on top of that.
I worked at a cool place that allowed you to take your unlimited PTO as long as there was coverage on the help desk. Took over 30 days one year and my boss took 50+.
I think unlimited pto is just a marketing gimmick to attract talents!!! This is nothing as compared to some business tycoons dont hesitate to work 70 hrs/week
We have unlimited PTO. I tend to take about 4 weeks. It's good for those that are just starting that would normally just get about 2 weeks. People tend to not take excessive amounts. I agree with you on the corporate standpoint. I would say to take the amount of vacation you are comfortable with.
My company also changed to unlimited PTO. I told my manager that I’m taking 5 weeks minimum per year, as I’ve been doing in the past. He did not object, not the least because he’s on the same wavelength as I. So far it’s been working well for both of us and the rest of our team.
My old job, Secure-24 in Southfield, Michigan, I.T./Security offered unlimited PTO, then when I requested a month and stuck to it, they fired me.
Get a labor lawyer, report it to your state labor board and take them to court then.
@@cpK054L They didn't specifically say PTO, they said something about business needs. but my attendance and performance were aces.
Blatant unfair dismissal. Do something about that.
Don’t let it go, free $$$ in your pocket.
Really? They can just...deny it and not fire you unless you don't show up
Unlimited PTO just means "Discretionary PTO" as in, at your manager's discretion. Was at Walmart when they went to this ridiculous policy a few years ago, and the first day I needed to take, my boss said, "Is it really necessary? We're really busy this time of year, and I'm not sure I can spare anyone." I gave my notice and found another job with real PTO.
It seems that whenever a new corporate scam pops up, Walmart seems to be using it ASAP...
@@Lostcontroller 😂😂
That was my experience with Lowes lol.
@@Lostcontrollerlmaoo 😂 typical.
EDWARD NORTON; ....SO....MY JOB FROM NOW ON IS GUARDING YOUR SECRET.....I CAN DO THAT FROM HOME....MAKE SURE THE WAGE IS DEPOSITED EVERY MONTH,,,,OR ELSE....
My company changed the PTO model from fixed to unlimited. I know why they did it but the way they were selling it was like snake oil.
it's the selling and the lying part that's the worst. Like... if only they were honest and said they do it for the greed, that would be so much better.
Mine just did the same thing. I see right through that BS.
Unlimited PTO often leads to employees taking LESS vacation because:
1. No clear benchmarks = anxiety about how much is "too much"
2. Companies don't have to pay out unused days when you leave
3. People compete to seem most dedicated by taking minimal time off
4. Manager subjective discretion > guaranteed days
5. Harder to track fair usage and prevent burnout
Bottom line: Most workers prefer knowing exactly what they're entitled to.
Yes. I noticed I take fewer days
WORKER sheep please become a Father/Mother and create new life to become lower paid future good workers competing against billions for barely survivable inflation adjusted salary.
Amen..
The change is simpler than that. PTO goes from an obligation - a debt the company owes you, to the company owing you nothing. In either case you may be gifted paid time off, but I wouldn't count on it.
I had Unlimited PTO. I used more days than when I had a set amount. If you are doing any of the crap you mentioned than it's a You problem tbh. I don't work to impress anyone. I do my job and I clock out.
I am new here in the US (from Europe) and my current job is this unlimited PTO, took me a while to understand exactly how that works, and honestly, I really dislike and feel uncomfortable about that. I prefer take something which is my RIGHT instead something that is “manager’s discretion” whatever.. super weird.
Just ask for the time you need, and if your manager says no, go to HR. Make it a headache for them. All they can do is fire you, which they might do anyway.
How bad is the culture shock?
@ that’s a great question, not too bad, but different, it really depends on each individual and what they’re looking for. :)
And then when you take the PTO, the company expects you to bring your laptop with you.
This should be upvoted to max!
I do my job in person, with tools. When I'm on PTO, no one expects me to do anything.
If you can do your job with a laptop, in 3 years an Indian will be doing your job with a laptop.
@@aluisious echo chamber comment
@@aluisious laptop is a tool you dingus, a robot or an immigrant can do your job just as much. Also palestine is an illegitimate state.
Nice video, no ads, on point, thank you ❤
The healthy PTO model is when you are given X weeks of vacation and it's MANDATORY take them.
100%, the mandatory part is so needed!!!
I had a job were technically we had a lot of vacation time but if you dared to take more than two days in a row and more than once a month.... you could expect never to get a promotion ever again. So literally no one ever took any vacation time and once expired they were lost and never paid so.... in reality all that vacation time just meant you had like an extra paycheck once you quit the job.
@@ulizez89I would have quiet and looked for something better.
I'd rather have the option to take a cash pay out.
@@kgreene460 No, because then everyone is expected to take the pay out and you end up screwing up your fellow workers that actually want the PTO.
Mandatory is the way to go!
I hated being said by the company 6 times per month to book my PTO to the last hour, half a year in advance, which days, how long.. how the hell I am supposed to know what the weather will be in 4 months when I'd be taking vacation??
They do that so it's easier to deny requests off. Also, so if u leave, they don't gotta pay out cash for unused pto.
Especially if the reason you are leaving is because you’re not getting your time off to maintain your work/life balance!
It's not easier to deny requests off. If your request are denied then you just leave the company. Nothing weird about it. PTO is part of my compensation so if you deny it I would request a higher salary as a result. Then leave if that's denied lol.
Pfft! I take PTO every chance that I get. I trivialize “guilt tripping”, and even file complaints to the labor board when they try to delay or deny it. My favorite part is taking all of my PTO accumulated days just before quitting for good.
I think the key is "labor board." Most people in the US don't have a labor board, if they take PTO every chance they get, they get permanent time off (fired).
@@bobbobertson7568 I never typically stay more than three years in a job, anyway. I don’t have any debts or major expenses such as pets or kids, so it’s not so bad when I get fired. I own 1/10th of my older brother’s house so no rent worries. Nowadays I just do gig work.
@@bobbobertson7568 I’m not too worried about that. My expenses in life are minimal, and nowadays I do app delivery, courier, tasks, and rideshare work to get by.
My last company had unlimited PTO, and they still expected you to attend calls and work while you were on vacation. Fortunately most of my coworkers knew what OOO and PTO meant.
I love my unlimited PTO. I usually take 7 weeks a year. I drop the calendar for my team and set a simple rule. I need one week in between one of them being gone. I cover their work when they are gone. A week in between allows me to catch up on my work. So in January two of my three folks will take 1 and 2 weeks off each. One will do a week then a break and then 2 weeks and a break. The next person could take a week or more off after. They can still take off for being sick during those week cool-offs if necessary. The only strict rule is they can't be off when I'm off unless it is an emergency. My boss just approves my time off without ever asking. He just expects me along with the rest of his senior team to make arrangements.
I love that you brag of 7 weeks as if that was a lot. Americans are crazy!!!!!
@ its enough. During my paternity leave I had about 12 weeks. I am glad I was able to spend plenty of time with my wife and daughter. However, I don't like to be off of work. I like what I do. I get bored after about 6 days of consecutive days off. Maybe other people want more time but nearly 2 months a year is enough for me.
@@TheSonyExperience we Americans have too much identity tied into what we do/how much we work. Take more time off and enjoy your fam.
@@izzo2998 ehh I hear you. But, I work from home. I have for a long time. I enjoy every bit of my family 24/7. I also like my career. In good at it. So I don't really have complaints about my work. I am definitely in a unicorn situation with my job
@@ulizez89 It is a lot, here.
My old company had regular PTO. Then went unlimited. I took my usual 2-week vacation with the new system and then I had to extend it bc of weather and flight cancelations 2 days in a row. My manager started giving me shit about it, I said well I used to have 27 days of PTO. Then I asked how much is unlimited. HR said it's up to your manager. When I left the company they did pay out your old PTO balance. But new hires with the unlimited system do not receive that nice exit vacation payoff.
That's a good point. If they change it while employed, your previous contract vacation time prevails and the "unlimited PTO" is effectively just a policy. But for new hires, it becomes contractual.
@@Tie509 Most people don't have employment contracts. But at least in California, accrued PTO is compensation, and must be paid out.
@@aluisiousCalifornia and Colorado are the only two that have to pay out. All other states, your accrued PTO is just dust in the wind. And if you’re in one of those two states and stay with the company, your PTO will stop accruing and just drain out as you use it until it’s 0, then you’re “unlimited”. Total scam, and anyone who says otherwise is lying or gullible.
@@aluisiousif you don't have a labor contract, then employment is _at will._ Therefore, you have no legal obligation to give notice before quitting.
Glad I dont have unlimited pto in Australia. We have a legislated 4 weeks on 38 hour full time work.
How is the 38-hour week broken up? Are Fridays shortened to 6 hours or something like that?
@@roccov1972 Maybe more breaks or longer lunch breaks? Either way, I'm jealous.
I'm Mexican, I work in IT tech support taking calls from Americans in English and for Canadians in French.
I have literally not had a 1 second of rest in over 3 years.
As soon as I finish one call, I have to take the next call. There is not a single second in-between calls. I literally work every single second of my 8 hour shift.
I've had to work during Christmas and New Year's for 3 years, and even on Christmas and New Year's, the calls never stop.
I would welcome PTO if there were such a thing where I work at.
Time to change careers man
@thiagocars Do you think I have options as a Mexican living in Mexico? This job required (not a bachelor's) a master's degree in Computer Science, being fluent in French and English.
If you think that I have options, you obviously have no idea how competitive the Mexican labor market is.
@@leonardo899 i understand, and feel sorry for that. I am originally from Brazil, moved to different countries working in IT, changed paths few times, went out of the comfort zone, but each one has a different perspective!
Bruh, Mexican culture highly discourages time off or breaks. They shame their fellow coworkers and even family from taking breaks or time off. They alongside the Japanese tie for working more hours than any other nation on Earth, it’s sad.
I've been in that situation, it's soul crushing. I work on the back end call center systems now and I can tell you for certain, not all call centers drive their agents that hard. I would try to find another call center to work at, before you take the job, see if you can get an idea of how many calls an agent is expected to take per day and how much after call work they allow, break policies, etc. If that isn't an option, take all that experience they're forcing down your throat and see if you can get promoted or laterally moved to a position that's off the phones at least part of the day. Maybe team lead, QA evaluator or even agent trainer. You take so many calls you ought to be pretty good at it by now, right? Leverage all that experience and play it like you're the expert agent now and want to show others how to do it, a "force multiplier" Look for opportunities that are adjacent to the actual front line agent job. You seriously have like the hardest job (no BS) in that whole place right now, anything else will be easy by comparison. Your goal is to replace that grind work (low pay more mistakes allowed) with responsibility work (better pay less mistakes allowed) Good luck amigo!
Thank you for exposing this!! It truly is a scam! Happy New Year!
I had over three weeks of PTO built up with my last job when I got laid off. Getting paid out the PTO hours was nice.
My current job has unlimited PTO and I know if I ever get laid off I’ll be paid nothing other than hours worked and owed commission.
It’s a scam.
it's only a scam if you let it be, thanks to UPTO I get two salaries for the labour time of one
@@marceloantunes998I’m not sure what you mean? No company gives true “unlimited” PTO. A girl I work with is about to get fired for taking too many days off and we have “unlimited PTO.”
The real scam comes from them being able to fire you without paying out unused PTO hours. That’s the reason they offer unlimited.
I've worked at places with "unlimited PTO" and it was either denied, or cancelled at the last minute. The only time I got a few days off was holidays, because the office was closed, or a couple of times I said either I take the time off or I would lose my shit and quit.
LOL, cancelled. I'm not cancelling my flights, hotels, or appointments. Go ahead and fire me, if you think you can get by without my work.
Thank you so much for talking about this - this goes hand-in-hand with the super-evil idea of labor utilization. (Would love for you to do a video on that!)
In the UK, the minimum annual leave allowance is 24 days. If you work with a company for a long time, this increases. I have never heard of any company over here allowing “unlimited” annual leave.
Yeah, but also in the UK, you get paid like children playing with blocks and crayons.
@ This may be true, but as you take your last breath, would you rather have a huge bank balance, or know you had a great time. I know what I want.
It's always done to benefit the company. Less accounting means less costs.
My company transitioned over to unlimited PTO a few years back. Even though my manager has never denied any of my PTO requests, I still don't really like it. It's mostly because I have no idea how much PTO is too much.
So I still just use the old system. I know, I used to have X amount of PTO before, and based on the prior company policy, I know I would have Y amount of PTO in my current position. I take that amount and add another 5 more days or so to that and take PTO for all those hours. I just hate having to play this mental gymnastics with my employer though.
Bingo, my exact predicament. So I finally make sure I take off the same I'd be entitled to under the old system.
Two weeks your first year, then three weeks from years two through five. After five years, make it four weeks. Don't feel ashamed. You aren't taking much time off.
Two weeks after one year used to be standard. Where I live, manufacturing tradesman are given a measly 5 days vacation after working 12 months of 50-hour-plus workweeks. Add to that, maybe 7 or 8 holidays, far fewer than what banks or the governments give.
We have "unlimited pto" but its 4 weeks, then and additional 10 days at managers discretion. Your HR rep or your manager should know how much is "too much" If they dont, they're lying.
@@GSAZYNSKI 5 days is indeed terrible for 50 hour work weeks. If you got kids, you're probably missing all of their events cause you barely get PTO.
The vid was not the edited well because Josh is on PTO. 🤣
Joshua is 100% correct. My company went to this a few years ago. I am lucky to get more than a week and a half a year. They just lumped extra expectations on us so if we take a reasonable amount of time off and don’t meet expectations well then that is on us, if we work hard enough to meet expectations and don’t take adequate time off we’ll then that is also on us. F them I updated my resume and am working on taking permanent leave from the organization.
Buddy, buddy...don't take permanent leave. Just take a week of time off. Then extend it.
Keep extending it until they fire you. Don't make it easy for these pricks.
@@aluisious, I have considered that. Actually if I just disappear it would take them at least 6 weeks to navigate the job abandonment process. I have seen others disappear over the years and this is the typical timeframe it takes them. If I did it during the holidays I bet it would take them closer to two months. While that would be some serious coin I want to maintain my rehire status. While I doubt I would ever return I like to keep the options in my favor.
Companies don’t pay out on unused vacation anymore. My company, for example, automatically expires vacation days at the end of year, so it is impossible for you to accumulate unused vacation days.
I know they do this with sick time, but I thought it was against the law to do it with vacation time. Those companies I know still pay out unused vacation time.
A company has to make it clear that vacation is use it or lose it. I've worked at two companies that allow banked PTO to roll over to the next year, but it's capped. So you lose anything over the cap at the end of the year. And you do get a payout when you leave even if it's use it or lose it, just depends on what you have saved up for the year.
Make video on why Walmart doesn’t give it’s employees holidays off if you would, please.
I was at Walmart when they went to "unlimited PTO." Total disaster.
you get off christmas and thanksgiving now but they only give you 5 points for sick days god help you if you catch something deadly you might as well just quit
Most retail workers don't get enough hours to get benefits,at all
@@morganseppy5180 im one of the few full timers where i work at but i got lucky as hell to get it. and im currently praying i dont lose my job cause of my lupus condition killing my immune system caused me to get super sick during double point days
@@morganseppy5180 being full time at walmart isnt all that. im even worrying about my job cause i got sick during their double point month. and im relying on their third party to approve a loa to save my job cause were never given enough sick time
Glad to see you back on a roll josh
Fortunately my unlimited PTO did not come with the guilt trip.
Plus if they fire you, they don't have to pay it.....
It is a scam because it assumes you use the same amount of hours you were allotted in previous years. And it turns it into a system of use it or lose it. Most employees don't use it because they are afraid to and/or are so busy they can't find time to use it. One of my friends would take his and made sure to use the amount of hours comparable to the previous years amount he was given. And if they ever denied it he would bring it up.
My company just switched to unlimited PTO. It was nice when they paid me out my accrued PTO, since I was near the limit and the extra pay was more than my yearly bonus. But then I volunteered to work Thursday and Friday after Christmas, which would usually be holiday pay, but now it's not holiday pay but instead we get a "comp day". That's right, I now have infinity+2 days of PTO.
Guess who has two thumbs and won't be working any more days like the last two!
This scam could be quite costly to companies in the end. People who take part in embezzlement normally do not take time off. It is difficult to keep schemes going when you are not physically present. A smart company wants people to take off significant time every year. The best way to do this is to give the employees a generous PTO allotment and then require them to take at least 2 weeks of it in one chunk.
I had unlimited pto, but it wasn’t really. There was an online portal, I would have to put my holidays on, but they would always get rejected. I went 18 months without a break. Then my mom got ill. And I needed time to take her to and from hospital, and then a few day with her at home. I wasn’t aloud the time. I couldn’t afford not to get paid, so my sister did it.
I no longer work at that company.
Companies don’t pay out on unused vacation anymore. My company, for example, automatically expires vacation days at the end of year, so it is impossible for you to accumulate unused vacation days year by year. If you leave mid-year without having taken vacation days you lose them. Either way you aren’t getting a payout for them.
If you are being given all vacation hours at the very beginning of the year, you didn't earn the vacation time. If you accumulate vacation hours every paycheck, then they have to pay whatever you didn't use because you are being compensated for the time you have cumulatively worked.
In countries where you have legally mandated minimums you cannot contract out of those obligations. So a company offering unlimited annual leave still has to offer the legal minimum of 4 weeks and pay out any left over upon employment ending, they can just choose to also pay employees above and beyond the legal minimum. The US needs to do better 🤑
Don't hold your breath on things becoming better in the US. We just hired two billionaires to run the country, LOL!
I hate my last job, but I will say this. Since 2020 they've done unlimited pto and for a good 3 years straight I worked like 9 months out of the year. It really depends on where you're at
I bet you're going to be in the crosshairs if they have to do layoffs.
@ like I said my last job. I’m already onto my next good try though.
Facts Josh!
It's just less overhead for the finance dept.
I like traveling around the globe (Japan, Philippines, Guam, Namibia, Argentina, etc.) and the only thing I care about is being able to get away at least three weeks in a row.
Passport bro
@@dw4525yeah bruh!
This is why I don't care about pto, vacation days, or sick days. I care about how much I'm paid. Period. You either manage your own funds, or you let someone do it for you with their authority.
When I want time off, I take it. If my work plays games, I go somewhere else.
I mean, what good is a paycheck if you dont have time to relax and recharge.
You are right, it takes away a huge financial liability for them. Unlimited PTO means we have the right to say no.
Easy way to work with this - tell the hiring manager during the interview phase that you will be taking the unlimited PTO very seriously and expect your requests for time off to be approved without any question. If you are hired your manager will know what you expect and if you aren't hired, you missed a bullet.
If I had unlimited PTO I'd never be at work.
And you'd never be at work, because they'd fire you
We get 5 weeks PTO and paid holidays. The CEO tells you to take your PTO. It does not carry over.
2:42 lol forgot to edit
Why wouldn't my soon-to-be employer think that I was stupid for falling for _Unlimited PTO?_ Also, why shouldn't I think them stupid for offering it?
Rather than unlimited PTO, the best kind of PTO should allow employees to PTO whenever they want regardless of "schedule clashes", "staggered vacation periods", "PTO blackout periods" or whatnot. There is no point is having unlimited or high PTO if you can't take it whenever you need to.
Take the check, look for a job outside of corporate.
I haven’t had that experience with our DTO. It’s unfortunate that organizations take this approach. In the end, they lose top talent.
Yup. If nothing else its a great way for bean counters to figure out what positions can be phased out.
"Rick hit all his benchmarks last year but he took a three day weekend every month ... makes me wonder if we could integrate his duties into another position"
My job offers "unlimited" PTO, with a "mandatory" ten days per year. It's not a lot, and I don't see anyone taking much more time than that.
My company went unlimited PTO a few years ago. I had 6 weeks of vacation then, and I am sure to take 6 to 7 weeks every year since it started. I've heard a lot of horror stories about this at other companies, but where I work I've never had any vacation denied or questioned.
Honestly I would not work til someone says something call them out on their BS companies do a lot of this crap it's so damn annoying.
Usually, "unlimited PTO" is most seen in start-ups from individuals that intend to make a business that doesn't suck. It's the only reason anyone can say anything good about it. Because it's not actually the PTO, but the fact they found a job of not-suck.
Lol I hit the jackpot. Got a new job 4 months ago, job post didn’t say anything about salary or benefits. Anyways they have unlimited PTO as long as you deliver your jobs. I was skeptic about it but in this time I have seen my coworkers take out multiple days out specially on the holidays. But all my previous jobs it was such a hassle to request pto my last one only gave me 3 days after the first 6 month and then 5 after the first year….and they would ask the reason for the PTO and they will keep making follow up questions. After that I learned just say for medical reasons and they cannot ask you anything else.
Thank you for another reminder of why I never worked a corporate job.
I don't think it was a coincidence that my most blatantly toxic employer had an unlimited PTO model
These videos just confirm the fact that most of the people out there who act like they have decency are just phonies. It's really, really depressing when you realize how bad it is. People will screw you over rather than look at you.
I hate corporate trickery 😡😡😡😡
This is worse than RTO.
Unlimited PTO for my last 2 companies has been 6 weeks. My current employer also gives 2 weeks sick leave on top.
The thought of unlimited PTO always made me think of musical chairs. I always hated that game and I swear every time the chairs are always taken and I have to pick up the slack from people taking PTO - I would *NEVER* mess with a company that did unlimited (especially if they meant it).
Lived it. Most people took, at most, a week at a time. And if you asked for more than that, you got the side eye🤨.
What if HR at a company was a bunch of Josh Flukes. Might be the best place ever.
I can't imagine ever working somewhere with "unlimited PTO" but if it happened I'd probably aim for a week every quarter and see what happened.
I had unlimited PTO at my last role. Didn't take any time off for a year. Took 3 weeks of PTO that I had been planning for that entire year and travelled halfway around the world to a foreign country. One week into my vacation they had a "reduction in force". I got a week of PTO and then terminated.
Unlimited PTO at my company (I am a Director there) is partly a psychological trick. Most ended up taking less time off. But, if they request it, they can take as much as 20% of total work time off per year at a maximum. I take 4 to 5 weeks per year and know several employees that do it. To be clear, I have never, not once, disapproved time off. Ever. I don't know any other manager that has either.
Don't ever get up. Keep grinding, keep hustling, shoot for your dreams.
You should do a segment on crap like this:
There is a video here on youtube by a channel called First Coast News and the video is titled "How To Get the Job and Promotion You Want in the New Year"
I take 5-6 weeks of PTO under the unlimited PTO policy. I don't know if I would get this much time off if it were fixed so it works for me
Not on the topic of the video, but I really like clicking on your videos and not having to skip through an intro that is just a copy paste of parts inside it. :)
They have shown studies that people take less time off with unlimited PTO. Joshua covers what happens in this video. I know the states that declare vacation time as an employee asset have to pay out unused vacation time. This is the work around as there is no set balance given to you. The other problem is if you take 6 weeks I have seen it brought up in reviews.
I took 45 days off this year and leave early and show up late. I still crush it.
I was denied a raise after 2 years of hard work and instead offered unlimited PTO. My boss said it was similar to a raise!
1:20 so is that a mentality or are they getting overtime or sales commissions?
Cause if they’re just doing it for the feels…uh fuck that noise.
I’m not in a corporate environment-I work retail at a grocery store. I do a lot-some might say extra work-but I choose to do it and don’t expect anything from anybody else and I don’t expect recognition, but I set up night crew, unload trucks and generally facilitate things to go well. My years working third shift night stock as lead exposed me to just about every emergency and issue that might come up, from equipment failure, to junkies overdosing in the parking lot.
I’ve never worked somewhere with unlimited PTO. I have worked where I was told I had a week of paid vacation, but it turned out to be 5 days.
Unlimited pto is outright illegal.
To give someone paid time off is unheard of and can't be justified legally.
How is that person employed in the first place.
There is a number of legal paid free days you can have each year, including national holidays. More than that, it can't be paid. You may get unpaid leave, or sick days, but can't have them paid by the company.
Unlimited PTO still has to comply to laws, which means that they can't make it below the minimum annual leave allowance in the country.
In most countries this isn't too big a deal, the difference between 30 days a year and unlimited is just between a couple of guaranteed days and unlimited potential days.
The USA offers no guaranteed PTO because it's a capitalistic nightmare.
I get 5 weeks of vacation and admin forces employees to take off if its near deadline. I think they get in trouble.
Or you could be like my current company where they did away with unlimited PTO because of a few managers abusing it, then replaced it with VERY limited PTO that the unused balance of does NOT get paid out to you upon your departure.
My employer offers "Unlimited PTO", and whenever I ask for PTO I get it. But my boss's boss will show the team a chart of everyone's (anonymized) PTO count for the year, and make it clear that we need to be mindful of how much time we take off. So it's pretty obvious that we are not to take advantage of the Unlimited-ness of PTO. I took 13 days off in 2024, and I know that I probably could not take much more than that without raising some eyebrows. Thanks.
I worked at a very large, well known industrial company that converted to unlimited pto. I took a lot. Went on multiple multi week trips, took the holidays off, etc. I also had a 12 week paternity leave which I got so bored with I had to cut it short. So for me it was all good. But I was on a good team with a good culture and being considered a “high performer” never had anybody question my time off. So it’s not always a straight up scam, although I see where it can appear that way.
Its funny there is no such thing as Unlimited Paid Time Off in the UK. Noone would turn up for work ever and companies would not be able to say anything about it. You can't discriminate against people for taking time off, in fact you need to encourage them to take it. Settling up at the end of the year is no longer allowed except in special cases.
I am am one a the few for whom it actually worked. My manager had the same life situation as i, having a couple of kids and being of the middle age. We just didnt care about pto shaming, worked great.
For the young and single employees it was a completely different story.
In France, we have at least 1 month of paid time off (mandated by law). And depending on your work regimen, family circumstances and plenty other factors, you can get even more (still regarding the law). I like a lot of things about the USA, but certainly not its work culture which is stupid and toxic.
screw unlimited pto, what i really want is unlimited raises. i'd be fair and give myself a 50% annual raise. the downside is i'll prob never retire.
Canada has a rule where you get 4% of your pay on every cheque - whether or not yoh take time. It represents vacation pay.
However, it also absolves companies of having ti offer pto, since you already get vacation pay..companies might let you get days off without pay.. or you might not actually get any days off.
It’s a scam designed to avoid paying out unused PTO upon termination.
Unlimited...unless they deny it for "good cause", which they will ALWAYS find.
If employers cared, most don’t, they’d show it. Commit (in writing) to 6 weeks of vacation per year. Increasing to 8 weeks after 10 years of employment. But they don’t, and there’s a reason for that: they’re not invested in you having a life outside your cubicle.
Ive only ever worked for one company that had unlimited PTO. Was like pulling teeth to get manager approval, and I had to convince my coworkers to cover some of my projects on top of that.
I worked at a cool place that allowed you to take your unlimited PTO as long as there was coverage on the help desk. Took over 30 days one year and my boss took 50+.
I think unlimited pto is just a marketing gimmick to attract talents!!!
This is nothing as compared to some business tycoons dont hesitate to work 70 hrs/week
If I had unlimited PTO. I'll take off a week every month.
We have unlimited PTO. I tend to take about 4 weeks. It's good for those that are just starting that would normally just get about 2 weeks. People tend to not take excessive amounts. I agree with you on the corporate standpoint. I would say to take the amount of vacation you are comfortable with.
I hate having to take holiday pay when sick
Just helping the algorithm!
Thats where Quiet quiting matches this Unlimited PTO.
My company also changed to unlimited PTO. I told my manager that I’m taking 5 weeks minimum per year, as I’ve been doing in the past. He did not object, not the least because he’s on the same wavelength as I. So far it’s been working well for both of us and the rest of our team.
😂😂😂
“PTO - Terms and Conditions Apply in 4 pt font”
This guy always cracks me up 😂😂😂💀