Honestly, one of my big problems with CGI is that it almost always looks like it's in 15 fps in anime, it looks jittery and it's quite distracting at times.
@@OrbitalForce yep and thats what make CGI Bad on Anime even tougt some of anime can manage to blend CGI or even make CGI Looks like a default hand drawn anime
If you do it right, CGI in anime can be absolutely breathtaking. Unfortunately, nobody talks about when it's good, like, say, Akito the Exiled, Hokusei no Kuni, Majestic Prince...
At times they're doing 8 drawings a second in anime, even less, three pictures for each drawing or four, to make up the total of 24, but the CGI just looks like crud, its horrible, look at the old Sailor Moon effects and compare it with the new, its just pathetic.
@@anhilliator1 Initial D (spare the Legend movies) and Wangan Midnight we're all beg to differ, since both series we're on CGI and still looking awesome even to this day that nobody talk hoot about them
I know I am belated to the conversation. But I'll be honest and say aesthetically from a style and through expression I like 2D animation more than CG animation.
I agree. Using Berserk as an example actually hurts a lot of arguments. It's so poorly done that it doesn't matter what tools were used it was going to be bad. But I will say I prefer the style of 2D animation over even the best of 3D animation. I don't care for Disney or Pixar's films at least aesthetically and I wish we could see more traditional animation in films.
The thing is the creator of this video is very right. While 3D animation is great for action. Its limited in the world you can create. And its limited in what you can express. I mean there's a reason why Studio Ghibli is so beloved. It isn't just about the way something makes you feel, but what you can build and create. I like the sublte stuff. But I have been fascinated with Japanese animation because of their use of 2D expression. And I think by morphing to merely another 3D CGI market you lose something. Even the hand made drawn Disney movies expressed something the 3D CGI cannot. To me most of these shows with 3D CGI animation because they have to rely so much on models. The only thing that you can tell apart from a Disney and a Pixar movies these days is the stories told. Art, imo, should not be standardized to one method or design.
I mean outside of japan cg animation is quite common and can be used effectively, transformers prime and green lantern show emotions wonderfully, though different from traditional 2d animation. And I Japan is sort of in a learning period when it comes to 3d animation but we have seen some well made 3d anime and they can only really go forward
Mistah Morningstar; and I have a problem with shows like Star Wars animated show and the Justice League animation. Which I explain above earlier. To me neither of the shows feel like they have personal expressions of who the artist is. Because they are models. Because they rely so heavily on sticking things in a computer, no one really draws what it is. They don't have unique visual. Unique worlds. The Young Justice everyone looks about the same in terms of design and expression. To me CGI is this wonderful cookie mold that people stick a show in and bake it to come out. There was something interesting and more fascinating to see the expression of the artist of the show make their own creative spin in a shows look and design.
I guess I'm just too old, because I don't enjoy CG at all. All my favorite anime and anime-related stuff is 2D. Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Jin Roh: The Wolf Brigade, Akira, Perfect Blue, Ghost in the Shell, Sword of the Stranger, Steamboy, etc. Yeah, I know there are elements of CG in some of these. And that's ok. But I can't really visually enjoy anime unless it is primarily 2D with CG present only as a supplementary tool for the artist. Western, Japanese, doesn't really matter to me, my preference is always 2D. That's why I kinda resent Disney for shutting down its 2D department.
Yeah, it's hard to believe anyone actually prefers the newish Disney films over the old 2D ones.. Pixar is a bit better than Disney but that's it, just a bit better. I feel like I'm watching little dolls do kid stuff with happy bright colors always. It's annoying as hell.
A lot of old Dinsey films have no depth, which is why people like the never ones better. A 2D Disney like Sleeping Beauty has a lovely visual style, with a very straight design for the backgrounds which I love, and Lilo and Stich, Treasure Planet and Atlantis will always be my favourite Disney films visually and narrative wise.
All those 3 Disney movies you mentioned were still mostly 2D, with some 3D/CGI elements.. when I talk about newer Disney I'm referring to Frozen, Brave, and so on, you know, full or 90%+ CGI films.
I love 2D animation honestly it's too beautiful and more personal and flowing feeling. CG movement looks stiff for anime genre and more robotic feel to it. CGI doesn't have a lot of its own style either, which is why I love 2D animator because their style always shows in their work.
Derp Cat LOL, u just don't saw good 3D animation. It can be 1-by-1 copy style of 2D anime. Moar money = moar skill of animators = moar quality of animation. But today hire 100 2D-monkeys r cheaper than hire 1 good 3D-animator. That's why 3D anime r ugly.
SonySony Here small example: youtube/PiR7KYIQv9U in which I see almost no difference between original 2D OP and fan-maded 3D-version. If fans can do this, why big companies can't?
Traditional anime is incredibly stiff. Go back to the 90s, before the CG explosion, and most shots will be as static as possible (save for camera pamera and flapping mouths), with the "real animation" conserved for small bouts of action. Even the action won't necessary be well-animated; a lot of times you can count the frames being used as they fly by. If you're talking about western animation like Disney or something where they animate on 1s, though, that's a whole other story... but not the subject of the video.
Well... I think the problem is that anime tries to do it all as cheap as possible. This is why it is so bad. Like what would you expect? Seriosly now... You know all those cutscenes from video games... that are CG... ofc... you just love them. Its have style, realism, originality, anything you want. They are perfect for big games you know... but ofc when anime industry that wants 12 ep as fast and cheap as possible choose CG... it is gonna be crap. So yeah... If anime industry mentality and budget doesn't change i feel like they should stick to 2d... cuz as shitty as even 2d is with all those cheap animations... 6-12 frames/s and a lot of talking over dead images (with exception of the mouth... ofc) cg anime succed to make it even worse...
You should check out Houseki No Kuni. It's heavy on the CGI but does a masterful job making it feel like it isn't. It easily beats a lot of 2d animes with it's quality in more areas than animation as well.
I haven't watched anime in a really, really long time but i saw a few glimpses of new Berserk and thought it was a bit of a failure. Just... utter lack of creative direction. I also remember being irked by ill fitting attempts to do cel shaded renders as far back as early 2000s. Just don't remember which show it was back then. At least it was just corridors and spaceships, not characters. But i also remember Blue Submarine no. 6 and the cheaply spat out 3D elements made in Lightwave's built-in renderer actually worked perfectly well! Kinda reminds of Final Fantasy 7/8 animations in style, except much cheaper, produced by a tiny studio. The 3D animation was done in-house by a handful people. Ghost in the Shell: Innocence looked magnificent, though that of course had much higher production values. There were 3D animated, cel shaded elements in Princess Mononoke, and numerous scenes of 3D animation (though mostly fixed up/traced over by hand) in 1999 Jin-Roh. Could you tell?
my biggest issue with CG based Anime is that too often there can be high level of "Slowdown" and the overall effect is a drop in frames, it makes it slow and choppy or jumpy at times. but thats something that has been improving over time as you can happily expect it too, and often its a minor issue. its also not limited to CG based anime, but it does sometimes become more noticeable and detached in pure 3D anime. i didnt realize that it was sometimes intentional.
Agarbig Most videos, including anime, run at a consistent 24fps. However, that is only video frames. Actual animation frames that OP was referring to are usually stretched out using limited animation techniques to save money and time. That's why some scenes are noticeably smoother than others even though they all render 24fps on video. If you already knew this, good on you. Just wanted to clarify.
Cheap POORLY done CG ruins EVERYTHING including American animation and anime. Hate CG if it's not done by a major animation company because 9 times out of 10 its crap.
doesnt cheap poorly done 2D ruin everything aswell? CG is broader than just for 3D animations. Plus, have u not seen any of the work done by animators here on youtube!? xD
No it isn't. look at most animation portfolios. Most of the high quality shorts are made by one person per project. It's only expensive if you arent working efficiently and are unskilled.
The labor costs are very high. For high quality CG you need to hire a large number of skilled people. Single, self motivated artists making shorts over long periods of time isn't the same as a whole movie or tv show with deadlines to meet.
Johan Johansson I mean the way studio Ufotable uses CG. They actually make a mix of using CG & anime-style that works. Just look at their recent work: Fate/SN: UBW God Eater Tales of Zestiria the X
The short answer is: yes. The more detailed answer: super-low budget 3D CG is what is ruining anime. 3D CG animation can look good/amazing, but due to the budget constraints it is not viable for anything longer than a movie, so instead we get terrible 3D CG animation with the likes of Ajin and new Berserk...
I hope they continue to struggle trying to make 3d CGI look like 2d anime because there is always the small hope that they will succeed. I don't want to see animation in Japan become what it is in the West were 2d animation is seemingly long dead in feature length and dying on television. I don't mind when artist use cg to augment their animation and make it easier and cheaper. You gave the example of cg backgrounds that usually work really well. But I don't want to see 2d animation die like it is in the west.
Maybe but is that because in the west we don't know how to properly animate in 2D or is it because we let the art die simply because 3D is cheaper. I think it's that later.
it has been done well, have you seen the openings for jojo parts 1-3? Yeah the entire show isn't done in 3d but the openings are and it looks fantastic while looking similar to the actual look of the show.
Yes, it is mismanagement. The most easy way to fix it, one of the reasons it's jarring, is that they don't take the framerate into account. Anime tries to cut corners left and right and subconsciously we know a scene with a lot of animation (usually perspective shifts or something turning around) gets 12 fps at most, 10 fps most of the time. Now they can render it and making it 10 or 25 fps isn't much more work, so they go for the 25 fps, compared to traditional animation it looks buttery smooth and is very jarring.
The day anime becomes all CG is the day I no longer watch new series. I'm fine with a little assistance when necessary, as long as it's not too obvious. Mostly environments, crowds, and background stuff like that. But the full-CG style just looks wrong The lighting looks wrong. The framerate is obviously choppy. The characters are clearly nothing more than blocks moving around other blocks, like a more expensive Flash animation. The colors are off and the shading unnatural. The characters lose their expressiveness. Even though games like Fire Emblem make this style work better than others, it still comes off as a little unnatural.
Well sucks for you if you are so anti-CG that you won't even watch a series even if it looks fantastic, maybe even so good that you can't tell the difference between 2D and 3D.
Imo, CG can be used as an assisting tool, but anime should always be in 2D. I just can't stomach 3D. It feels as if there is no expression, the colours are weird, and you can't see that personal touch that you can in older animations.
The thing is, shows like Knights of Sidonia and RWBY look and feel fine because they are nearly 100% CG. If the entire animation style is the same it tends to look better (this is a concept called "unity" in art, which animators are seeming to forget...it is fucking art 101) than when switching between styles is poorly executed.
i'm seeing knights of sidonia pop up a lot here as "good" CG, but when I tried watching it the CG was rather off putting to me. maybe it's personal taste, but if knights of sidonia is the current bar for quality CG I might have to agree with the OP here.
Attack on Titan is a great example of CG and standard animation working together, at least in my opinion. I think when done right CG can be great tool. When done wrong it makes everything look awkward and out of place. More often than not I prefer standard animation of course though.
I don't really think an anime should focus entirely on cg, but mixing cg and traditional are okay, just not only the characters are made of cg. That live action adaptation of an anime movie that's coming out is something interesting. I could probably word this better, but I can't think of how to.
That final fantasy clip from the video looked fucking amazing. So did that other clip about two girls fighting in an ice place? It mixed CG with 2D and it looked beautiful. Too bad the animators in berserk and Ajin did a horrible fucking job.
Exactly. Berserk is such detailed and beautifully drawn manga where face expressions are very important to capture the characters feelings in the moment. 2016 Berserk failed completely at this and the same goes for Kingdom
i feel theres also an issue of making the characters hold still in 3D because in 2D a character standing like a stiff board is less jarring. while in CG a still character looks dead. a good example are the JoJo op's 1-3. the animation doesnt feel jarring because its constan constantly moving and is very lively, while op4 dropped the ball and held still. As apose to every cut having a surge of life, it really had 2 shots that i felt had a good constant flow of movement.
its the main contributing factor to why i feel 2D works better for TV productions, because you cant animate every tiny thing. But 3D works better for film because you actually have the time and budget to put money on idle breathing and such. Half a million for 30 mins isnt going to give you the liberty to give the same attention to details as 33 mil spread over 1:30.
I agree in a way... But i don't think it's an issue of 2D vs 3D, i think it's more the way the 3D style is developed and utilised that takes the time. like shown in the video, one example with the 3D anime style for instance, 3D animation that's rotoscoped for the 2D look and style, which requires double the amount of work and makes it more time consuming for TV compared to a movies time frame. Even still, I think as tech progresses it's becoming easier and easier to animated in 3D more efficiently, so it's just a matter of time before time consuming 3D animation techniques become more efficient and faster. :)
+Kwanzantora the main point im trying to make is that pose to pose animation only really works in 2D because in 3D it touches the uncaney. i do belive CG is playing catchup. fact of the matter is that it hasnt had as much time to mature, thus the do's and dont are more finicky. ---- this is for chacter animation to be clear. for backgrounds its almost undenyable that CG backdrops have the edge. the ballroom dance from beaty and the beast is something inconceivable to do if you hand drew all the detailed archtexture in a constantly moving prespective.
+Kwanzantora the main point im trying to make is that pose to pose animation only really works in 2D because in 3D it touches the uncaney. i do belive CG is playing catchup. fact of the matter is that it hasnt had as much time to mature, thus the do's and dont are more finicky. ---- this is for chacter animation to be clear. for backgrounds its almost undenyable that CG backdrops have the edge. the ballroom dance from beaty and the beast is something inconceivable to do if you hand drew all the detailed archtexture in a constantly moving prespective.
especially in japan where fewer animators are as trained in it but you know, the same goes for fully digital 2d. almost everyone notices a drop in quality and appeal when things go fully digital, and there's no reason it should have to be. It's just that that usually means they got new animators too, who are more trained in those tools... but they aren't the same. And what's really sad is digital animation saves SO much money, yet every time it's implemented, a ton more corners get cut than before. Where's that saved money going?
Whoa whoa whoa... We didn't need to transition from 2D to 3D? Did you even watch TV cartoons between 2000-2010? There were SO MANY badly done CG shows. From Reboot to Garfield to that Metabots or whatever it was called. And a fair amount of low budget movies trying to copy Pixar. We had almost a whole decade of uncanney valley that is far worse than what anime is going through now. That being said, the use of computers are varying in quality in anime as well. I wish they would tone it down. But I think the real culprit of why anime is having such variation in quality is the drastically smaller budget for your average TV show compared to the west. Remember, 2D also was done a lot quicker and cheaper in Japan all the way up to the 90s. With major ranges in quality linked directly to their budget. Something like Escaflowne or CardCaptor Sakura had some of the largest budgets for their time. And as a result, you could tell it had better animation than most shows. Something like Lost Universe or You're Under Arrest....not so much (but still great shows in terms of story and characters). On that note, Escaflowne also had some early CG/digital animation aides. And some of the early CG scenes in Escaflowne stand up better than stuff even in 2017. Further making me think budget and time are the biggest factor. I do think you're right that people who want to make 3D shouldn't try to imitate 2D. But as someone who vastly prefers 2D, this is extremely scary. We've already seen the west basically give up on 2D animation aside from a handful of TV shows. And other animation heavies in places like England and France are going for claymation or CG. Japan and Korea are pretty much the last bastion for 2D animation. And if they switch to 3D...then I'd argue animation is actually going to regress, not improve.
Reboot was badly done? Its amazing what they did for an episodic TV show with the tech at the time, considering it was the first of its kind, and its still watchable today (especially since its just generally a great show). Since then the only cg show I've even liked is Beware the Batman. Few western cg animations have even tried to do human characters again, even in film (Only one I can think of, a French film called Renaissance). The best early CG went they stylized look, like in Beyond the Mind's Eye. Most 3d before Toy Story wasnt even popular or probably even seen by many people, and I think hes arguing that Toy Story using the "toy look" intentionally helped get over the need for a transition. Medabots was Japanese. Aside from that I agree with the rest of your post. Also, I think its crazy that most people seem to be ignoring 3D graphics in gaming in this discussion. The cinematics in Square's Parasite Eve in 1998 and Final Fantasy VIII in 1999 had the first cg animations that I thought looked beautiful.
There's literally no fucking variety in animation these days in the mainstream. Today it's either 3D or nothing. But back in the 90s and early 00s claymation and 2D were still commercially successful
Right - which means two things: Hire a different director, hopeful the original anime one. And second: just make it high quality Modern 2D Animation- the likes of Claymore for instance. Never go with 3D. Last anime modern anime that looked really good in my opinion is FF XV Brotherhood (for such a small scope anime) - it looks better than most anime in recent years and definitely better than that horrible 3D cell-shaded/CGI crap.. (even though it had some 3D it blended very well with the 2D)
***** One of the main reasons CG was being used was to help save on costs, which makes sense, because they want it to be very detailed. But, they used CG in the wrong way, switched too often, messed with the camera way to much and such. I think the CG would've worked if they'd used it differently and it had been a studio more experienced with something like Berserk and with using CG.
Swagbuto Yakushi It was horrible through and through. The animation looked like crappy Stop-motion -which is the creepiest thing in my opinion - scared me like hell as a kid and still does. The visuals and graphics are crappy. The 3D models are horrible and inconsistent. The backgrounds are 3D backgrounds that are utterly bland and void of style, depth and detail. The characters are off. The music is off. The pacing is off. The camera movement made it look like a really dated 2000's BAD video game cutscene. I couldn't watch it I just couldn't! No 3D CGI is NOT an anime. I am ok with 2D CGI & drawing hybrid - if done right. I am not ok with cutting costs and quality like that. I think Claymore - while not nearly as good as the original Berserk of course - is a great example of modern (pre 2010 though) CGI-2D animation that looks and moves amazingly. Lots of hand-painted stuff, characters and environment are 2D and CGI is mainly for post processing effects, other VFX and action. Frankly, I am not very attracted to the story of Berserk beyond the original anime, but if the new anime was in the quality of the original - with modern 2D JP animation - I would have wanted to watch that.
CGI needs to be used like in AOT S1 to S3. There it was used for the background and allowed the camera angles to go nuts. That's a nice usage. On the other hand, it is really distracting to have certain Titans 2D animated and later being in CGI.
xland44 yeah, i watched a couple min of the first ep and I hated it. I hated the syle in Ajin as well, I only watched it cuz I liked the story and the theme..
lampenpam because it started off amateutish with little budget. It used a cheap and outdated engine but neverthless Monty Oum, r.i.p, made out of that a good storytelling and an amazing animation.
ikr and if your going to make it 3d at least get the shadding right and make it look like jojo's op and not just cunky 3D fake 2D anime with bad shadders, that looks like a 2006 bootleg straight to dvd movie for $3.99 at the dollar store.
Tsukiko Chan_ or favourite that is, RWBY, BRS have quite good CG example. But Houseki no Kuni took it farther to the whole new level and people still thinking that CGI will always be bad.
Would've been very helpful if the names and titles of each clip was at the corner when presented. Anyone wanna tell me how to spell the one with the 3D mummies fighting?
According to the web, drawing tradionally means that you've been drawing frames by hand. There is a lot to say in this case to what traditional animation really is. I mostly agree with how you perceive it as it may bug the hell out of people, but I believe traditional 2D animation is more like a style and medium you use. Like for an instance Tale of princess Kaguya.
We have moved to computer techniques in order for better renders and make our options wider. Their main excuse would be to switch a medium. Though we cannot forget that their experience with drawing by hand, anatomy, color studies and knowledge still applies for computer 2D animation. It is also more efficient, though you may not get as realistic as the masters for traditional drawing. I could also connect the same issue to 3D, as a new form and category within animation. I could say that it is not highly accepted amongst people due to the limits of what you can do with it. 2D has a trust amongst people, as they have a history and used through many mediums. You cannot bend the lines (well pixar did it in their short film paperman, recommend it), somewhat unrealistic, too much details, bad visual render, bad facial expressions. Though 3D is improving and I believe in their progress as to how we may be capable of bending 3D to our will. (The last 3D bender) :^) I bet someone is going to argue about "traditional 3D vs modern 3D" in the future as well. It is a matter of how people perceive their progress. If they don't do 3D, then there will be zero hope for 3D series. I feel like that anime games, RWBY series, Final fantasy and such has done a great job.
Personally on 3D vs 2D, I feel that the more effort and details a studio puts into a scene, the longer it will become. Like the pokemon games, passing a door... in the past their animations were shorter and therefore more enjoyable, now they put all their efforts into making a high quality 3D animation of someone exiting and entering a door, gets a bit annoying with the details. The same applies to the ammount of details needed in 2D, you can bend it and be more creative with it, and that will make the scene a lot shorter and more enjoyable.
pokemon uses a good blend of Cg and 2d animation by keeping all the characters 2d but changes the background to 3d to make the fight scenes slot less wooshy line on a colour and more keeping everything consistent
Interestingly, Pokemon's animation wasn't always that good. The early seasons had a number of animation errors, which thankfully became rarer as the show progressed. However, beginning with the Advanced series, they started using extremely noticeable CG for some attacks, Pokemon, and settings. The XY series overhauled the animation, which is now of much higher quality.
I can agree with that because growing up I watched the anime but stopped because XY was kinda lame and it wasn't until recently until I caught up with XYZ and I've noticed the quality get better over the years. Looking back, the early seasons were a mess with errors, nonsense, and shit that made your eyes do a double take at times.
@Majestic Open discussion for what? The title of this video "Is CG ruining anime?" If you ask a question in the video.... you need an answer. Imagine you go to present your work "Dose birds influence our planet? " and you will make a presentation for about 20 min. and then say.... "So... yeah... what do you think guys?" Serious people who would be participating in that conference will slaughter you, cuz you wasted their time on discussion that you expect your audience to answer. I mean clearly this video got so many views because of master level click bait.... and I respect author for that master level... but content is not what I would expect ,therefor I personally disliked this video.
Rotoscoping is fine when is done right, but most of people including me hate using raw 3D objects / models or even worse - when characters are made in 3D. Sidonia or Ajin are prime examples of ugly shit. Even if the story is good, I can't watch anime with heavy use of 3DCG, it's killing the whole enjoyment and I can't consider it as art anymore.
The low frame rate of Ajin killed me. I noticed it right away that they were trying to copy that choppy animation style found in 2d animation, but I kept feeling like maybe my netflix was lagging lmao.
man, I bet u could watch a really good cg and not even know it was cg or at least would really like it. The problem with cg is that it has being used badly and lazyly
omar reyes I don't take stuff like that too seriously. I do like anime but I'm not SUPER deep into it. If something intrigues me, I'll watch it, if not I'll pass on it. As far as Mob Psycho 100, I did like One Punch Man a lot so just by the look if it, I'll check it out.
The problem with Berserk is the source material. It is far too detailed for anyone to animate correctly without a huge budget. This is why the original anime used so many still shots. The new series use of CG no doubt cuts cost but the switch to traditional animation is very jarring. There is too much disparity between the designs. The one thing they could to to alleviate this is to just draw over the CG. Sure it would add to the cost but it would be worth it. Wish we could get some of that late 80's animation. They would lose so much money though lol.
"expression is easier to achieve in 2d than 3d" wrong. WRONG. W R O N G. R O N G. A good animator will coax expression out of a pair of rigid dice in stop motion. Expression is in character, and the animator's understanding of the character. It has nothing to do with the medium. I don't know why after about 20 years of it being mainstream, people still struggle to understand the principals behind 3d animation... in that they're just the regular ol' principals of animation. Also, ya'll (not specifically aimed at OP video), the Berserk 2016 doesn't suck because it uses 3d, it sucks because it uses it BADLY. Also, the staging and composition and key poses are shit on a fundamental level. Assuming the 3d shots are all accurate to the storyboards, then the show would look terrible even if it was 2d, because the STORYBOARDS are terrible to begin with. Some shots look like there aren't storyboards and they just improvised camera moves and shit, which would explain a lot actually.
Also, you seem to be implying that learning to animate in 3d is not acquiring a skill, same as learning to animate in 2d. learning IS acquiring a skill. That's literally what it means to learn. The barriers you have placed between the two are superficial.
And I TEACH animation in college. Both 2d and 3d. You're talking out of your ass, soulmus. A tool is a tool is a tool. Drawing is a too. Modeling is a tool. Good key poses, timing, and well thought out motion paths are vital to both 2d and 3d animation, and a good animator will excel with any medium. Would you say that stop motion doesn't require skill too, just because you only have to build the character once? That seems to be your primary problem with 3d. You don't seem to understand the distinction between asset building and actual animation.
Commenter839 They can use cgi, the problem is when they start thinking that it can be used in more than just a few things. Same goes with western cartoons. Besides Disney and Dreamworks, most look hideous.
Commenter839 I remember wanting to check out Expelled from Paradise for the longest time. Until I finally began watching it and deleted it from my mind.
"At it's core CG anime isn't the problem; its the animators and their perception of how anime should look" Half right. When people think about 3D, they think about the models and the lighting but not the shading. Cel Shading has been around for a long time, yes, but as it has been its very much not perfect. Watch the GDC talk about Guilty Gear to see how they are improving it. Cel Shading is hard to get right - if you do it well people will probably not notice its 3D but if you fail it will stand out VERY much.
Of course, then there are those shows that deliberately use the fact that Cel-shading stands out as an element. (Akito the Exiled used it so that you could see the insanely high level of detail on the models themselves.)
A lot of animators have trouble making CG figures look like they have weight. Monty Oum got pretty good at it in seasons 8, 9, and 10 of Red Versus Blue.
Well it depends. I'm sure if CG is used right it would even improve a anime (example: land of the lustrous) of course 2D looks really great but it's just harder to make so I'd say that some should 2D and the ones who work well in CG can be made in CG
They had a Fire Emblem anime a while ago, but it got cancelled after two episodes; I also wish they would make some more. (And a 3D Fire Emblem for NX maybe? Please Nintendo?)
+Benjamin Garcia The last console FE (Radiant Dawn) failed pretty bad. Maybe if they made a new console FE game it would do well due to the success of it's latest games.
I always have preferred 2D to 3D. MADHouse is my favorite style/studio. Whether it be Kaiji or One Outs, Monster or One Punch Man, MADHouse delivers :3 Bones is a close second.
All anime is 2D. Whether or not the CG is conspicuous is a different matter. Madhouse definitely uses CG. They just made it less conspicuous. It's a style choice.
Christian Perez I know it ~LOOKS~ like live action, but it was all done in CG! Seinfeld was actually the first full CG anime to be recognized by the US, half it's awards are for animation.
While not technically an anime, I always felt that Futurama was really good at blending its 3D and 2D aspects (like the various 3D renders of their spaceship). Great video, I watched this after watching the BLAME! adaptation that came out this year on netflix.
We are back! Sorry I haven't uploaded anything in a while, reasons explained at the end of the video, but I should be posting videos regularly again soon. If you liked the video, I highly encourage you share it with others, friends, family, whoever on reddit cares. It helps me out a lot and it'd mean quite a bit to me.
4:17 wow I miss this show Was my first anime, watched it when I was six and man was it amazing. My dad grew up on it in the 80s Robotech, if you're wondering. It's on netflix last I checked
The biggest issue I see around when it comes to how people react to 3D is that they don't understand what they are seeing and, due to that, generalize by saying "Anime in 3D are bad". Technically, for the last 15 years, there wasn't a single TV serie anime that wasn't done with at least 50% of its content in 3D. Not.one. For example, One Punch Man is fully done in 3D in over 90% of its scenes. Then how does it differ so much from something like Berserk 2016-17? There are many things. Camera controls & settings, facial animation, quality of the overall animation, pacing, etc. But even without considering the technical aspect done in the 3D stage itself, the biggest thing that seems to varies and affect the result the most is the post-effects stage and that's where, outside of the actual animation quality, One Punch Man display something completely opposite to one like Berserk. First, Post-Effects is the name given to the changes done after the 3D stage for each frame. While, in classical 3D like Pixar, that stage is there they add the "sparkles" and works on adjusting the tones and lighting values (shadows & highlight), in Anime, it's the part where they add details that are too time-consuming to be implement in the 3D. Kinda like the expression, the inconsistent details lines on edges (such as small temporary muscles lines during a pan shot), speed lines, blurry movement (like Dragon Ball's firsts exchanges where they become blurry lines), etc. For every hour invested in One Punch Man's Post-Effects stage, Berserk only got 5 minutes at most. It's been explained that this was to try a "new technique". They tried to do what was do what Guilty Gear X's team successfully did, but miserably failed: They invested a LOT of time in building a Shader (leaving most of the Post-Effects to a computer-based calculation) instead of investing in 2D animator to work on the previous work like they did in the Golden Age trilogy.
Creations Maxo i dont mind cgi just as its not taken over borad but it can be used to give tep,feeling to a scne such as a chrator looking down into the city or actsion scnes,
I recommend checking out Knights of Sidonia on Netflix, if you want an easy example of CG Anime. The story is pretty awesome, which might make up for the unorthodox approach to the animation
give it a couple years or a decade and we'll probably have better looking 3D animes that are Pixar level. what I will miss the most though is that hand drawn look. :( The good news is that Disney and Pixar are trying to create new technology to emulate painterly and hand drawn styles in 3D right now so that is something to look forward to.
Well you got to remember that Blame! is a movie, so it probably has more money behind it and has a shorter running time compared to a full 13-26 episode series.
it was RWBY that introduced me to 3d anime, and i think it was the fact that, according to the western view i'm used to, it technically isn't "anime" because it's not from Japan. so when i watched Land of the Lustrous, i wasn't too weirded out by it being CG instead of 2D. both 2D and CG are gorgeous when done right, and both ugly when done wrong.
Some CG is amazing. In fact for me, CG is great if done right. Gantz: O was beautiful. I just prefer 2D for certain animations because it tends to set a tone better than CG from what I've seen so far. Berserk should have stayed 2D with some CG like the Berserk Golden movie series.
I don't mind some CG anime's that I've been recently watching (never thought I'd like it much I'm still so so with it but) the first time I saw CG in an anime was Overlord and I got to say they nailed it well (Imo) (and I guess RWBY if you count it I don't know if it does or not)
I don't mind CG if it's like land of the lustrous or beastars since they are fantastic although i still prefer 2d art but the way they did kingdom and berserk was horrible, seeing the amazing art in the manga and then the anime looks like it was drawn and animated by a 3 years old is just so disappointing, i really hope that if vagabond ever gets an anime it doesn't get the same shitty treatment
I always felt like flow lighting and shading are the determining factors. How the characters move, how the light appears on a model weather that be graduation or highlights moving on the model, last is the shading which deals with similar problems.
I can understand. Sometimes, it feels like the whole show is really just for showing decent/somewhat presentable fight scenes. It's really just a generic shounen with a predominantly female cast and CG animation.
I like English dub of Sato a lot though. His voice fits the character well and he does it well, with the style, when I first watched it, it was weird, like really fucking weird. But now I dont mind it as much anymore
It's funny how the old anime had such a charm to it through it's shameless (budget-restriction imposed, of course) minimalism. Look at just how many still shots their are, how little background noise their is throughout so much of the series, how the collective "war cries" in battle scenes are so laughably 12 people in the studio trying to sound like 12,000. And yet it still feels so much more natural and appropriate than the CG version.
Ajin... You gotta get used to it, it's way more better when you keep watching it. I got used to it and enjoying its core now, it is really good once you get used to the animation. ((Especially the action scenes.
Konnichiwa Senpai, Please notice me, I watch Asian cartoons, I'm a weeaboo, I live in my mom's house. I'm like thirty two, I collect swords and throwing stars, yes I'm a weeaboo, Sticks and Stones may break my bones, But I will always be one step ahead of you, 'Cause I read the manga, (You're such a fucking pleb, are you even even Japanese bro) I haven't showered in like sixteen weeks, All my friends and peers are ashamed of me, 'Cause all'O'sudden, I think I'm Japanese Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo A filthy weeaboo (Naruto is SO Over-rated) A dirty weeaboo (You wanna see my katana collection) A fucking weeaboo (I'm learning Japanese on Rosetta stone) A disgusting weeaboo (So I'm like basically Japanese now) I sit at my computer desk, and argue with teenagers on the internet, about atheism, and how Japan is superior to other countries, I learned a bit of japanese, so now I'm qualified to be a part of their community so i made my avatar a kawaii waifu Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo Yes, I'm a weeaboo...
I hate when someone easily call someone weeboo...even for just beacause wacth one episode of anime.. If i see real weeboo.. then i don't want call it weeboo.. i always remember., mocking to someone is evil,I don't he/she weeboo or not, i better to understand them...
As someone who has to deal with production art quite regularly, I think this is a great video. Virtually all animation these days, be it a video game or TV show, is done through CG or digital tools past the concepting phase. It's ridiculously cost effective, and it's impossible to get some things right without it. Effects, lighting, physics, perspective. The Itano Circus is a great example. The end product though is stylized by choice. Regardless of whether it is dressed up to APPEAR traditional or rotoscoped, some effort in the production process is expended to accomplish that effect.
In short, blame the user not the tool. Japan uses CG to cut corners, America uses it to simply make content (speed isnt the motivator). Japan tries to imitate drawn animation in CG (and fails half the time/scores big the other half) while the West does their own unique styles without trying imitate something thats expressly different. Use CG to make a 3D Anime, not to speed up the production of a 2D one. Its why shows like JoJo work in 3D and Berserk doesnt you cant use it to cheat, you need to use it for what it exists to do: Create.
Say hello to RWBY volume 4. It is the best example I can think of that is a regimentation of anime put into cgi. In the new volume it looked at what it did before what anime has done, and just took inspiration. It has hard lines here and there, but is mostly smooth lighting and looks actually fan-fucking-tastic. That is how it is supposed to be done, and I hope Japanese studios take note.
Kyoto Animation uses 3D in various scenes. As an example, in the opening of second season of Hibike! Euphonium, there is a subtle use in the backgrounds along with the 2D characters. In Nichijou, it's used for at least one scene with Yuuko and Mai while Mio spectates.
There are some animes clipped into this vid that I would murder to watch just based on some of the visuals but I don't know their names. Maybe put their names in small text when you talk about them?
lucky for you i scrolled through the comments and found out the yugioh movie is called The Dark Side of Dimensions...and reason it looks so good is bc its a 2017 film :D trailer here: /watch?v=L5hx5rvLUN8
Etotama, Jojo's Bizarre World, Knights of Sidonia, Ajin, Cowboy Bebop, Mecorss, Star Wars the Clone Wars, Yugioh, Avatar the Last Airbender, Transformers Prime, Violet Evergreen, Berserk. That should be all the ones from the video, or at least the one's that I know/remember.
Because they miss the point of why low framerate 2D animation works - every frame is designed. Shit like that they create with 3D animating in mind (many frames interpolated automatically from a few key frames), then slap a 12fps restriction on the render and call it a day.
Creator of the video: makes a thoughtful analysis on CGI in anime and why it’s so poorly received, citing many examples of both bad and good CGI to conclude that CGI in anime often looks off because the animators are trying to apply principles of 2D that don’t (usually) work in 3D, such as rigid movement, 2D cel shading techniques, and lowered frame rates, and that animesque CGI has a lot of potential if animators can start thinking about how to create styles made for 3D instead of simply copy-pasting 2D styles Nearly everyone in the comments: “3D anime sucks and is irredeemable because it is just inherently inferior to 2D”
The problem with CG in both anime and movies is that its a shortcut. It gives you more options but more directors will choose the easier path with less cost and often less creativity. Its a doubled edged tool and not many have mastered, some even dislike James Cameron because he massively boosted the CG technology which in turn resulted in the era of so many blockbusters that go easy on the eye and less on detail. Been getting tired of the Transformers and its ilk for some time now.
IMO, CG is best used in dynamic character and camera movements. For example, many Ufotable works are surprisingly CG heavy; however, they use it in such a way that it actually enhances the experience instead of detracts from it. Another example would be Majestic Prince. All of its fights are CG, however, many people watch it solely for those fights because of how well done they are. (Then again, it is an Orange show, so that's a given.)
@@illegalalien6542 I think Akito the Exiled is also a good example- the models don't really seem stiff, and the animations are surprisingly fluid. I think the key is the fact that they increased the number of frames per second to add in extra frames for things like momentum and such. And like I said, dynamic character movements - Akito the Exiled is full of 'em.
the issue is the shading and the animation key and fast movement that are not drawn realistically in 2D; where in 3D the object moving will still be in the same shape at every frame.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
"You probably watch anime"
That's where you're wrong, narrator.
I have no idea why I'm here
your weeb instinct led you here. join us.
+LSM EVE nah. shōnen ain't my thing!
Mein Gauche i said please
+LSM EVE okay :(
+LSM EVE damn that's edgy
Honestly, one of my big problems with CGI is that it almost always looks like it's in 15 fps in anime, it looks jittery and it's quite distracting at times.
It's supposed to fit in with the 24fps 2D animation but we all know how that turned out
@@OrbitalForce yep and thats what make CGI Bad on Anime even tougt some of anime can manage to blend CGI or even make CGI Looks like a default hand drawn anime
If you do it right, CGI in anime can be absolutely breathtaking. Unfortunately, nobody talks about when it's good, like, say, Akito the Exiled, Hokusei no Kuni, Majestic Prince...
At times they're doing 8 drawings a second in anime, even less, three pictures for each drawing or four, to make up the total of 24, but the CGI just looks like crud, its horrible, look at the old Sailor Moon effects and compare it with the new, its just pathetic.
@@anhilliator1 Initial D (spare the Legend movies) and Wangan Midnight we're all beg to differ, since both series we're on CGI and still looking awesome even to this day that nobody talk hoot about them
Old Berserk looked better than the new one :/
my preference is with the new one. it makes it more fluid in my opinion
the old soundtrack is better too
manga looks better
Agreed. But the new doesn't look BAD, just different
even the opening has better animation
I dont mind cg but atleast make it have smooth animation instead of the way they animated berserk
Like Deep Canvas?
they could've pulled a Kizumonogatari or something
Studio orange should have made it
idk why i honestly kinda like it it’s so chaotic
CGI ain’t it for anime at all
That Violet Evergarden shot at 3:00 is absolutely beautiful.
I agree
@Digital Roamer It is from promotional material/ a trailer for the show which basically announced that the show was in development.
It's one of my favourite Anime
I know I am belated to the conversation. But I'll be honest and say aesthetically from a style and through expression I like 2D animation more than CG animation.
I agree. Using Berserk as an example actually hurts a lot of arguments. It's so poorly done that it doesn't matter what tools were used it was going to be bad. But I will say I prefer the style of 2D animation over even the best of 3D animation. I don't care for Disney or Pixar's films at least aesthetically and I wish we could see more traditional animation in films.
The thing is the creator of this video is very right. While 3D animation is great for action. Its limited in the world you can create. And its limited in what you can express. I mean there's a reason why Studio Ghibli is so beloved. It isn't just about the way something makes you feel, but what you can build and create. I like the sublte stuff. But I have been fascinated with Japanese animation because of their use of 2D expression. And I think by morphing to merely another 3D CGI market you lose something. Even the hand made drawn Disney movies expressed something the 3D CGI cannot. To me most of these shows with 3D CGI animation because they have to rely so much on models. The only thing that you can tell apart from a Disney and a Pixar movies these days is the stories told. Art, imo, should not be standardized to one method or design.
He was using Berserk as a negative example, saying it looks bad.
I mean outside of japan cg animation is quite common and can be used effectively, transformers prime and green lantern show emotions wonderfully, though different from traditional 2d animation.
And I Japan is sort of in a learning period when it comes to 3d animation but we have seen some well made 3d anime and they can only really go forward
Mistah Morningstar; and I have a problem with shows like Star Wars animated show and the Justice League animation. Which I explain above earlier. To me neither of the shows feel like they have personal expressions of who the artist is. Because they are models. Because they rely so heavily on sticking things in a computer, no one really draws what it is. They don't have unique visual. Unique worlds. The Young Justice everyone looks about the same in terms of design and expression. To me CGI is this wonderful cookie mold that people stick a show in and bake it to come out. There was something interesting and more fascinating to see the expression of the artist of the show make their own creative spin in a shows look and design.
"Chances are if you are watching this, you like anime"
No, I am watching it because it's been taunting me in the recommended feed for the past week.
LOL thats finally why I clicked on it too. Even if I like the style of anime, I dont bother watching the related shit on youtube.
Wow. You're special.
OK?
Dan Esp ditto, ultimately I haven't learned anything new. :/
LOL! XD
CGI is probably better off in movies and live-action films than in 2D animation. CGI will go well with real life but almost never with
2D animations.
I wish I was a cartoon
Ufotable : good
That is absolutely not true. CGI doesn't mean realistic. You can have cartoony looking CGI for example.
You probably don't really know what CGI is
Or how about we make the characters 2D animation while making the background cgi
I mean they are ways of making CGI to look exacty like anime but a lot of the time you are losing a lot of the reasons you woud use CGI
I guess I'm just too old, because I don't enjoy CG at all. All my favorite anime and anime-related stuff is 2D. Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Jin Roh: The Wolf Brigade, Akira, Perfect Blue, Ghost in the Shell, Sword of the Stranger, Steamboy, etc.
Yeah, I know there are elements of CG in some of these. And that's ok. But I can't really visually enjoy anime unless it is primarily 2D with CG present only as a supplementary tool for the artist.
Western, Japanese, doesn't really matter to me, my preference is always 2D. That's why I kinda resent Disney for shutting down its 2D department.
Yeah, it's hard to believe anyone actually prefers the newish Disney films over the old 2D ones.. Pixar is a bit better than Disney but that's it, just a bit better. I feel like I'm watching little dolls do kid stuff with happy bright colors always. It's annoying as hell.
A lot of old Dinsey films have no depth, which is why people like the never ones better.
A 2D Disney like Sleeping Beauty has a lovely visual style, with a very straight design for the backgrounds which I love, and Lilo and Stich, Treasure Planet and Atlantis will always be my favourite Disney films visually and narrative wise.
All those 3 Disney movies you mentioned were still mostly 2D, with some 3D/CGI elements.. when I talk about newer Disney I'm referring to Frozen, Brave, and so on, you know, full or 90%+ CGI films.
Yeah they don't make em like they use to. Old school anime beats new anime in my opinion. I can't stand this new weeb shit.
all anime is weeb, the hell you talking about?
I love 2D animation honestly it's too beautiful and more personal and flowing feeling. CG movement looks stiff for anime genre and more robotic feel to it. CGI doesn't have a lot of its own style either, which is why I love 2D animator because their style always shows in their work.
Yeah. Even 6fps 2D animation looks whole universe better than 60FPS 3DCG.
Derp Cat LOL, u just don't saw good 3D animation. It can be 1-by-1 copy style of 2D anime. Moar money = moar skill of animators = moar quality of animation. But today hire 100 2D-monkeys r cheaper than hire 1 good 3D-animator. That's why 3D anime r ugly.
TimKruz it's completely opposite.
SonySony Here small example: youtube/PiR7KYIQv9U in which I see almost no difference between original 2D OP and fan-maded 3D-version. If fans can do this, why big companies can't?
Traditional anime is incredibly stiff. Go back to the 90s, before the CG explosion, and most shots will be as static as possible (save for camera pamera and flapping mouths), with the "real animation" conserved for small bouts of action. Even the action won't necessary be well-animated; a lot of times you can count the frames being used as they fly by.
If you're talking about western animation like Disney or something where they animate on 1s, though, that's a whole other story... but not the subject of the video.
Well... I think the problem is that anime tries to do it all as cheap as possible. This is why it is so bad. Like what would you expect? Seriosly now... You know all those cutscenes from video games... that are CG... ofc... you just love them. Its have style, realism, originality, anything you want. They are perfect for big games you know... but ofc when anime industry that wants 12 ep as fast and cheap as possible choose CG... it is gonna be crap. So yeah... If anime industry mentality and budget doesn't change i feel like they should stick to 2d... cuz as shitty as even 2d is with all those cheap animations... 6-12 frames/s and a lot of talking over dead images (with exception of the mouth... ofc) cg anime succed to make it even worse...
Every anime does CG. Whether or not they choose to dress it up to look more traditional is an aesthetic choice.
You should check out Houseki No Kuni. It's heavy on the CGI but does a masterful job making it feel like it isn't. It easily beats a lot of 2d animes with it's quality in more areas than animation as well.
I haven't watched anime in a really, really long time but i saw a few glimpses of new Berserk and thought it was a bit of a failure. Just... utter lack of creative direction.
I also remember being irked by ill fitting attempts to do cel shaded renders as far back as early 2000s. Just don't remember which show it was back then. At least it was just corridors and spaceships, not characters.
But i also remember Blue Submarine no. 6 and the cheaply spat out 3D elements made in Lightwave's built-in renderer actually worked perfectly well! Kinda reminds of Final Fantasy 7/8 animations in style, except much cheaper, produced by a tiny studio. The 3D animation was done in-house by a handful people. Ghost in the Shell: Innocence looked magnificent, though that of course had much higher production values.
There were 3D animated, cel shaded elements in Princess Mononoke, and numerous scenes of 3D animation (though mostly fixed up/traced over by hand) in 1999 Jin-Roh. Could you tell?
Cheap CG looks like trash. Great CG costs a fortune.
@@acua3 I'm still not sold. It makes me want to vomit.
my biggest issue with CG based Anime is that too often there can be high level of "Slowdown" and the overall effect is a drop in frames, it makes it slow and choppy or jumpy at times.
but thats something that has been improving over time as you can happily expect it too, and often its a minor issue.
its also not limited to CG based anime, but it does sometimes become more noticeable and detached in pure 3D anime. i didnt realize that it was sometimes intentional.
The thing I want anime is to have a smoother animation frames. Instead of looking like 15fps, it should be 25fps at least.
60fps or bust
haha you're asking for too much. Unless if you're talking tweened Flash stuff, then otherwise it's generally unfeasible with most shows.
+lonelytree the sky is the limit!!!
Anime is running on 24 FPS just so you know.
Agarbig Most videos, including anime, run at a consistent 24fps. However, that is only video frames. Actual animation frames that OP was referring to are usually stretched out using limited animation techniques to save money and time. That's why some scenes are noticeably smoother than others even though they all render 24fps on video.
If you already knew this, good on you. Just wanted to clarify.
Cheap POORLY done CG ruins EVERYTHING including American animation and anime. Hate CG if it's not done by a major animation company because 9 times out of 10 its crap.
yep proper CG is expensive.
doesnt cheap poorly done 2D ruin everything aswell?
CG is broader than just for 3D animations. Plus, have u not seen any of the work done by animators here on youtube!? xD
No it isn't. look at most animation portfolios. Most of the high quality shorts are made by one person per project. It's only expensive if you arent working efficiently and are unskilled.
Totally agree
The labor costs are very high. For high quality CG you need to hire a large number of skilled people. Single, self motivated artists making shorts over long periods of time isn't the same as a whole movie or tv show with deadlines to meet.
I don't like the CG much....
Though, Ufotable's way of using CG is amazing! :D
Same
do you mean, all CG or... wut
Advent Children was incredible as well. And still is.
Like in movies, if used poorly it looks like fucking SHITE, take the new Berserk, perfect point of a bad use of CG.
Johan Johansson
I mean the way studio Ufotable uses CG.
They actually make a mix of using CG & anime-style that works.
Just look at their recent work:
Fate/SN: UBW
God Eater
Tales of Zestiria the X
I like the style to be consistent. Not like FFU for example where it goes from been 2D to a low quality 3D CGI gun been charged up.
JUST WOKE UP SEE THE VIDEO GOT 30,000 VIEWS OVERNIGHT AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN?!
Showed up in my suggested videos. No idea man, but congratz^^
Same here.
This video is apparently in everyone's suggestions.
Berserk
Because it is a very good topic. And the Thumbnail was chosen wisely. I hate Berserk because of CG. Dont like it at all
The short answer is: yes.
The more detailed answer: super-low budget 3D CG is what is ruining anime.
3D CG animation can look good/amazing, but due to the budget constraints it is not viable for anything longer than a movie, so instead we get terrible 3D CG animation with the likes of Ajin and new Berserk...
I hope they continue to struggle trying to make 3d CGI look like 2d anime because there is always the small hope that they will succeed. I don't want to see animation in Japan become what it is in the West were 2d animation is seemingly long dead in feature length and dying on television.
I don't mind when artist use cg to augment their animation and make it easier and cheaper. You gave the example of cg backgrounds that usually work really well. But I don't want to see 2d animation die like it is in the west.
hiurro I honestly think the west is horrible at 2D and better at 3D
Just like Japan is better at 2D animation than 3D
Maybe but is that because in the west we don't know how to properly animate in 2D or is it because we let the art die simply because 3D is cheaper. I think it's that later.
hiurro 3d is cheaper and takes less time.
Being cheaper and faster doesn't make it better or more artistic. Cost and effort are the downsides of 2D but 3D has it's own downsides as well.
it has been done well, have you seen the openings for jojo parts 1-3? Yeah the entire show isn't done in 3d but the openings are and it looks fantastic while looking similar to the actual look of the show.
Yes, it is mismanagement. The most easy way to fix it, one of the reasons it's jarring, is that they don't take the framerate into account. Anime tries to cut corners left and right and subconsciously we know a scene with a lot of animation (usually perspective shifts or something turning around) gets 12 fps at most, 10 fps most of the time. Now they can render it and making it 10 or 25 fps isn't much more work, so they go for the 25 fps, compared to traditional animation it looks buttery smooth and is very jarring.
The day anime becomes all CG is the day I no longer watch new series. I'm fine with a little assistance when necessary, as long as it's not too obvious. Mostly environments, crowds, and background stuff like that. But the full-CG style just looks wrong The lighting looks wrong. The framerate is obviously choppy. The characters are clearly nothing more than blocks moving around other blocks, like a more expensive Flash animation. The colors are off and the shading unnatural. The characters lose their expressiveness. Even though games like Fire Emblem make this style work better than others, it still comes off as a little unnatural.
Well sucks for you if you are so anti-CG that you won't even watch a series even if it looks fantastic, maybe even so good that you can't tell the difference between 2D and 3D.
Imo, CG can be used as an assisting tool, but anime should always be in 2D. I just can't stomach 3D. It feels as if there is no expression, the colours are weird, and you can't see that personal touch that you can in older animations.
The thing is, shows like Knights of Sidonia and RWBY look and feel fine because they are nearly 100% CG. If the entire animation style is the same it tends to look better (this is a concept called "unity" in art, which animators are seeming to forget...it is fucking art 101) than when switching between styles is poorly executed.
i'm seeing knights of sidonia pop up a lot here as "good" CG, but when I tried watching it the CG was rather off putting to me. maybe it's personal taste, but if knights of sidonia is the current bar for quality CG I might have to agree with the OP here.
should look at the cg that Blizzard does for there WOW ads and wc3 cinamatics
Attack on Titan is a great example of CG and standard animation working together, at least in my opinion. I think when done right CG can be great tool. When done wrong it makes everything look awkward and out of place. More often than not I prefer standard animation of course though.
This aged fine
Ajin and RWBY did it right.
Berserk did it left.
RWBY is one of the ugliest looking shows I have ever laid my eyes on.
Which volume did you watch? -_-
Xeadas ,it get better with each volume
,also the earliest volumes we're made with (literally)dirt cheap budget
Contestant,"Are you all alright?" Crowd,"Yes!"
Contestant,"No, you are all al-left."
RWBY was ugly but the fight scenes were beautiful and didn't run at 6fps like berserk or even Ajin.
Two of my favorite shows in one video: Supernatural and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
CG anime is not that enjoyable BUT its perfect for an opening *cough* JoJo's Bizarre Adventure *cough*
AlphA_Kun Diamond is unbreakable had THE best animation
AlphA_Kun We're getting there it's called time and Japan will in time surpass America in that department..
Jxsper Noir DiU wasn't that good with animation. The openings were perfect but if it was a CG opening 👌
AlphA_Kun It's epic and glorious
Link Wii Ben I know, DiU is my favorite part but the animation was crap tho
I don't really think an anime should focus entirely on cg, but mixing cg and traditional are okay, just not only the characters are made of cg.
That live action adaptation of an anime movie that's coming out is something interesting.
I could probably word this better, but I can't think of how to.
That final fantasy clip from the video looked fucking amazing. So did that other clip about two girls fighting in an ice place? It mixed CG with 2D and it looked beautiful. Too bad the animators in berserk and Ajin did a horrible fucking job.
Oh god..berserk 2016...is just...trash, pure trash.
It's not about it being CG or not. It was poorly done either way.
Exactly. Berserk is such detailed and beautifully drawn manga where face expressions are very important to capture the characters feelings in the moment. 2016 Berserk failed completely at this and the same goes for Kingdom
i feel theres also an issue of making the characters hold still in 3D because in 2D a character standing like a stiff board is less jarring. while in CG a still character looks dead.
a good example are the JoJo op's 1-3. the animation doesnt feel jarring because its constan constantly moving and is very lively, while op4 dropped the ball and held still. As apose to every cut having a surge of life, it really had 2 shots that i felt had a good constant flow of movement.
its the main contributing factor to why i feel 2D works better for TV productions, because you cant animate every tiny thing. But 3D works better for film because you actually have the time and budget to put money on idle breathing and such.
Half a million for 30 mins isnt going to give you the liberty to give the same attention to details as 33 mil spread over 1:30.
I agree in a way... But i don't think it's an issue of 2D vs 3D, i think it's more the way the 3D style is developed and utilised that takes the time. like shown in the video, one example with the 3D anime style for instance, 3D animation that's rotoscoped for the 2D look and style, which requires double the amount of work and makes it more time consuming for TV compared to a movies time frame. Even still, I think as tech progresses it's becoming easier and easier to animated in 3D more efficiently, so it's just a matter of time before time consuming 3D animation techniques become more efficient and faster. :)
+Kwanzantora the main point im trying to make is that pose to pose animation only really works in 2D because in 3D it touches the uncaney.
i do belive CG is playing catchup. fact of the matter is that it hasnt had as much time to mature, thus the do's and dont are more finicky.
----
this is for chacter animation to be clear. for backgrounds its almost undenyable that CG backdrops have the edge. the ballroom dance from beaty and the beast is something inconceivable to do if you hand drew all the detailed archtexture in a constantly moving prespective.
+Kwanzantora the main point im trying to make is that pose to pose animation only really works in 2D because in 3D it touches the uncaney.
i do belive CG is playing catchup. fact of the matter is that it hasnt had as much time to mature, thus the do's and dont are more finicky.
----
this is for chacter animation to be clear. for backgrounds its almost undenyable that CG backdrops have the edge. the ballroom dance from beaty and the beast is something inconceivable to do if you hand drew all the detailed archtexture in a constantly moving prespective.
especially in japan where fewer animators are as trained in it
but you know, the same goes for fully digital 2d. almost everyone notices a drop in quality and appeal when things go fully digital, and there's no reason it should have to be. It's just that that usually means they got new animators too, who are more trained in those tools... but they aren't the same.
And what's really sad is digital animation saves SO much money, yet every time it's implemented, a ton more corners get cut than before. Where's that saved money going?
Whoa whoa whoa... We didn't need to transition from 2D to 3D? Did you even watch TV cartoons between 2000-2010? There were SO MANY badly done CG shows. From Reboot to Garfield to that Metabots or whatever it was called. And a fair amount of low budget movies trying to copy Pixar. We had almost a whole decade of uncanney valley that is far worse than what anime is going through now.
That being said, the use of computers are varying in quality in anime as well. I wish they would tone it down. But I think the real culprit of why anime is having such variation in quality is the drastically smaller budget for your average TV show compared to the west. Remember, 2D also was done a lot quicker and cheaper in Japan all the way up to the 90s. With major ranges in quality linked directly to their budget. Something like Escaflowne or CardCaptor Sakura had some of the largest budgets for their time. And as a result, you could tell it had better animation than most shows. Something like Lost Universe or You're Under Arrest....not so much (but still great shows in terms of story and characters). On that note, Escaflowne also had some early CG/digital animation aides. And some of the early CG scenes in Escaflowne stand up better than stuff even in 2017. Further making me think budget and time are the biggest factor.
I do think you're right that people who want to make 3D shouldn't try to imitate 2D. But as someone who vastly prefers 2D, this is extremely scary. We've already seen the west basically give up on 2D animation aside from a handful of TV shows. And other animation heavies in places like England and France are going for claymation or CG. Japan and Korea are pretty much the last bastion for 2D animation. And if they switch to 3D...then I'd argue animation is actually going to regress, not improve.
Reboot was badly done? Its amazing what they did for an episodic TV show with the tech at the time, considering it was the first of its kind, and its still watchable today (especially since its just generally a great show). Since then the only cg show I've even liked is Beware the Batman. Few western cg animations have even tried to do human characters again, even in film (Only one I can think of, a French film called Renaissance). The best early CG went they stylized look, like in Beyond the Mind's Eye. Most 3d before Toy Story wasnt even popular or probably even seen by many people, and I think hes arguing that Toy Story using the "toy look" intentionally helped get over the need for a transition.
Medabots was Japanese. Aside from that I agree with the rest of your post. Also, I think its crazy that most people seem to be ignoring 3D graphics in gaming in this discussion. The cinematics in Square's Parasite Eve in 1998 and Final Fantasy VIII in 1999 had the first cg animations that I thought looked beautiful.
There's literally no fucking variety in animation these days in the mainstream. Today it's either 3D or nothing. But back in the 90s and early 00s claymation and 2D were still commercially successful
At least its not 5:4 low resolution, but yeah I wish it was 2D.
Devil Chylde that ugly low fps 3d stop-motion 1999 graphics and stiff animations of the new "anime"? no thanks. I will pass
Theres still the fact that the director was inexperienced with anything like Berserk as well as 3D. That was an issue.
Right - which means two things:
Hire a different director, hopeful the original anime one. And second: just make it high quality Modern 2D Animation- the likes of Claymore for instance. Never go with 3D.
Last anime modern anime that looked really good in my opinion is FF XV Brotherhood (for such a small scope anime) - it looks better than most anime in recent years and definitely better than that horrible 3D cell-shaded/CGI crap.. (even though it had some 3D it blended very well with the 2D)
***** One of the main reasons CG was being used was to help save on costs, which makes sense, because they want it to be very detailed. But, they used CG in the wrong way, switched too often, messed with the camera way to much and such. I think the CG would've worked if they'd used it differently and it had been a studio more experienced with something like Berserk and with using CG.
Swagbuto Yakushi It was horrible through and through. The animation looked like crappy Stop-motion -which is the creepiest thing in my opinion - scared me like hell as a kid and still does. The visuals and graphics are crappy. The 3D models are horrible and inconsistent. The backgrounds are 3D backgrounds that are utterly bland and void of style, depth and detail. The characters are off. The music is off. The pacing is off. The camera movement made it look like a really dated 2000's BAD video game cutscene. I couldn't watch it I just couldn't!
No 3D CGI is NOT an anime. I am ok with 2D CGI & drawing hybrid - if done right.
I am not ok with cutting costs and quality like that.
I think Claymore - while not nearly as good as the original Berserk of course - is a great example of modern (pre 2010 though) CGI-2D animation that looks and moves amazingly. Lots of hand-painted stuff, characters and environment are 2D and CGI is mainly for post processing effects, other VFX and action.
Frankly, I am not very attracted to the story of Berserk beyond the original anime, but if the new anime was in the quality of the original - with modern 2D JP animation - I would have wanted to watch that.
I don't even hate CG I just hate the frame drops that constantly ruin the sense of immersion with the show
As long as it is not used like berserk or looks shite I'm fine
Aijin like stlye is also shite
agreed
Yeah because you think it looks like sht just because it's a little overdone, you haven't seen sht animation then.
+XdakotasapphireX no i have seen school days and evangellion
everyone is entitled to their own opinion :P
CGI needs to be used like in AOT S1 to S3.
There it was used for the background and allowed the camera angles to go nuts. That's a nice usage. On the other hand, it is really distracting to have certain Titans 2D animated and later being in CGI.
why is this a 13 min video? Only takes 1 second to say "YES".
lol.... have you ever seen Berserk 2016?
xland44 yeah, i watched a couple min of the first ep and I hated it. I hated the syle in Ajin as well, I only watched it cuz I liked the story and the theme..
the older one had better animation
It doesnt help berserks director has never used CG in his life.
You're a very persuasive person with incredible arguments.
The return of noses is at hand!
truu
The lack of proper shading in RWBY triggers me..
Ray Gong
shame...same
thats the reason why i didnt watch it. looks like some amateurich youtube video that isnt worth warching
Ray Gong it looks better with every volume (season)
,but I respect your opinion
volume 4 got really pretty though. and even the expressions are better now.
lampenpam because it started off amateutish with little budget. It used a cheap and outdated engine but neverthless Monty Oum, r.i.p, made out of that a good storytelling and an amazing animation.
CGI is ruining anime for me
Have you tried Gantz:O on netflix?
Thank you for showing me that > : D. My eyes are cured
ikr and if your going to make it 3d at least get the shadding right and make it look like jojo's op and not just cunky
3D fake 2D anime with bad shadders, that looks like a 2006 bootleg straight to dvd movie for $3.99 at the dollar store.
Houseki no kuni is the only cgi anime that i like so far
Tsukiko Chan_ or favourite that is, RWBY, BRS have quite good CG example. But Houseki no Kuni took it farther to the whole new level and people still thinking that CGI will always be bad.
Would've been very helpful if the names and titles of each clip was at the corner when presented. Anyone wanna tell me how to spell the one with the 3D mummies fighting?
Also can someone tell me what's at 12:44?
Google for "Ajin"
+Ryan Cook is that the mummy one or knight one
+Ryan Cook pffft. Nevermind lol thanks man. You're my savior
I agree so much. Now I have to search everything in the comments
Just remember., Final Fantasy Kingsglaive is coming out. Very impressive 3d "anime" movie.
Yes, though I wish that would also apply to the seasons as well.
Will Online If only haha
+Deus Solaris That's why I out it in parentheses. I was unsure of what to label it. Thanks!
+Deus Solaris its closer to final fantasy style....
+Deus Solaris It's cool
I thought "traditional" animation specifically refers to 2D animation that's drawn traditionally, not 2D animation in general....
oh hey... maybe xD I think ure rightt
People still say "traditional" animation, even though that tradition has been replaced by computer techniques.
According to the web, drawing tradionally means that you've been drawing frames by hand. There is a lot to say in this case to what traditional animation really is. I mostly agree with how you perceive it as it may bug the hell out of people, but I believe traditional 2D animation is more like a style and medium you use. Like for an instance Tale of princess Kaguya.
We have moved to computer techniques in order for better renders and make our options wider. Their main excuse would be to switch a medium. Though we cannot forget that their experience with drawing by hand, anatomy, color studies and knowledge still applies for computer 2D animation. It is also more efficient, though you may not get as realistic as the masters for traditional drawing.
I could also connect the same issue to 3D, as a new form and category within animation. I could say that it is not highly accepted amongst people due to the limits of what you can do with it. 2D has a trust amongst people, as they have a history and used through many mediums.
You cannot bend the lines (well pixar did it in their short film paperman, recommend it), somewhat unrealistic, too much details, bad visual render, bad facial expressions. Though 3D is improving and I believe in their progress as to how we may be capable of bending 3D to our will. (The last 3D bender) :^)
I bet someone is going to argue about "traditional 3D vs modern 3D" in the future as well. It is a matter of how people perceive their progress. If they don't do 3D, then there will be zero hope for 3D series.
I feel like that anime games, RWBY series, Final fantasy and such has done a great job.
Personally on 3D vs 2D,
I feel that the more effort and details a studio puts into a scene, the longer it will become. Like the pokemon games, passing a door... in the past their animations were shorter and therefore more enjoyable, now they put all their efforts into making a high quality 3D animation of someone exiting and entering a door, gets a bit annoying with the details.
The same applies to the ammount of details needed in 2D, you can bend it and be more creative with it, and that will make the scene a lot shorter and more enjoyable.
I still remember the original tittle of this video
"Is CGI ruining anime?"
pokemon uses a good blend of Cg and 2d animation by keeping all the characters 2d but changes the background to 3d to make the fight scenes slot less wooshy line on a colour and more keeping everything consistent
Interestingly, Pokemon's animation wasn't always that good. The early seasons had a number of animation errors, which thankfully became rarer as the show progressed. However, beginning with the Advanced series, they started using extremely noticeable CG for some attacks, Pokemon, and settings. The XY series overhauled the animation, which is now of much higher quality.
I can agree with that because growing up I watched the anime but stopped because XY was kinda lame and it wasn't until recently until I caught up with XYZ and I've noticed the quality get better over the years. Looking back, the early seasons were a mess with errors, nonsense, and shit that made your eyes do a double take at times.
Some episodes of XY feel like a movie or 3 episode OVA's, like the pokemon "beauty" contest.
Conclusion? What was the meaning of this talk?
- "Yahhh we need to wait for other studios develop CG"
is not a conclusion....
I literally thought the same thing upon finishing this video....
why would you absolutely need a yes or no answer? the way I see this video is more like an open discussion
@Majestic
Open discussion for what?
The title of this video "Is CG ruining anime?"
If you ask a question in the video.... you need an answer.
Imagine you go to present your work "Dose birds influence our planet? " and you will make a presentation for about 20 min. and then say.... "So... yeah... what do you think guys?"
Serious people who would be participating in that conference will slaughter you, cuz you wasted their time on discussion that you expect your audience to answer.
I mean clearly this video got so many views because of master level click bait.... and I respect author for that master level... but content is not what I would expect ,therefor I personally disliked this video.
Muh answers, yes or no i cant decide on my own!
solame10101 man, this is not a piece of art where you can have an open ending....
If you have a thesis you have to either support it or destroy it.
Rotoscoping is fine when is done right, but most of people including me hate using raw 3D objects / models or even worse - when characters are made in 3D. Sidonia or Ajin are prime examples of ugly shit. Even if the story is good, I can't watch anime with heavy use of 3DCG, it's killing the whole enjoyment and I can't consider it as art anymore.
The low frame rate of Ajin killed me. I noticed it right away that they were trying to copy that choppy animation style found in 2d animation, but I kept feeling like maybe my netflix was lagging lmao.
SonySony Same
man, I bet u could watch a really good cg and not even know it was cg or at least would really like it. The problem with cg is that it has being used badly and lazyly
Anime should stay 2D lmao.
Like, cgi is fine, unless it takes away from the experience. If it makes an anime look NOT like an anime anymore, that's not a good thing.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is my favorite anime
The only cg anime I like has to be Ajin
Will The Dee yeah because they actually know how to use CG plus it has a good story
Rick Grimes yes even though it has a few cliches it's very good the story kept me hooked
Dont forget Knight of Sidonia too
I like Ajin because the story was pretty cool, but the cg looked so off putting outside of the Ajin themselves I couldn't handle it.
Ajin is the ugliest animation I've ever seen. Can't watch it.
ANIME AT 3:04 I NEED TO KNOW
plz
Violet evergarden
Yu know what, actually just marry me.
That's how grateful I am
My heart
CG Anime can be awesome when it's done right. Berserk animators just fucked up overall.
well I guess you don't understand how much art style can mean such as Mob Psycho 100 what do you think of that art style.
I really enjoyed Berserk's animation style. I dunno... I might just be stupid :c
MrMertakhai Different strokes for different folks. I like Berserk but the animation wasn't to my liking.
omar reyes I don't take stuff like that too seriously. I do like anime but I'm not SUPER deep into it. If something intrigues me, I'll watch it, if not I'll pass on it.
As far as Mob Psycho 100, I did like One Punch Man a lot so just by the look if it, I'll check it out.
+omar reyes i like mob psyco and didnt like cg on berserk. :D
Black rock shooter uses CG for the action scenes and god it's pretty ! The last volumes of RWBY are also great
The problem with Berserk is the source material. It is far too detailed for anyone to animate correctly without a huge budget. This is why the original anime used so many still shots. The new series use of CG no doubt cuts cost but the switch to traditional animation is very jarring. There is too much disparity between the designs. The one thing they could to to alleviate this is to just draw over the CG. Sure it would add to the cost but it would be worth it. Wish we could get some of that late 80's animation. They would lose so much money though lol.
"expression is easier to achieve in 2d than 3d"
wrong.
WRONG.
W R O N G.
R
O
N
G.
A good animator will coax expression out of a pair of rigid dice in stop motion. Expression is in character, and the animator's understanding of the character. It has nothing to do with the medium.
I don't know why after about 20 years of it being mainstream, people still struggle to understand the principals behind 3d animation... in that they're just the regular ol' principals of animation.
Also, ya'll (not specifically aimed at OP video), the Berserk 2016 doesn't suck because it uses 3d, it sucks because it uses it BADLY. Also, the staging and composition and key poses are shit on a fundamental level. Assuming the 3d shots are all accurate to the storyboards, then the show would look terrible even if it was 2d, because the STORYBOARDS are terrible to begin with. Some shots look like there aren't storyboards and they just improvised camera moves and shit, which would explain a lot actually.
***** You sound like someone who doesn't animate.
Also, you seem to be implying that learning to animate in 3d is not acquiring a skill, same as learning to animate in 2d.
learning IS acquiring a skill. That's literally what it means to learn.
The barriers you have placed between the two are superficial.
And I TEACH animation in college. Both 2d and 3d. You're talking out of your ass, soulmus. A tool is a tool is a tool. Drawing is a too. Modeling is a tool. Good key poses, timing, and well thought out motion paths are vital to both 2d and 3d animation, and a good animator will excel with any medium.
Would you say that stop motion doesn't require skill too, just because you only have to build the character once? That seems to be your primary problem with 3d. You don't seem to understand the distinction between asset building and actual animation.
Who's being pretentious? A good animator is a good animator. End of.
E A S I E R
I think the third berserk movie combines both perfectly
i keep coming back to this video and man legit one of my favorite underrated youtubers
Im a simple guy, I see CG in Anime, I never watch it again.
That is pretty fuckin' simple.
Lost Guardian Pretty much every post 2005 anime has used CG at some point, though.
Commenter839 They can use cgi, the problem is when they start thinking that it can be used in more than just a few things.
Same goes with western cartoons. Besides Disney and Dreamworks, most look hideous.
Commenter839 I remember wanting to check out Expelled from Paradise for the longest time. Until I finally began watching it and deleted it from my mind.
We both know that's not true
"At it's core CG anime isn't the problem; its the animators and their perception of how anime should look"
Half right.
When people think about 3D, they think about the models and the lighting but not the shading. Cel Shading has been around for a long time, yes, but as it has been its very much not perfect.
Watch the GDC talk about Guilty Gear to see how they are improving it.
Cel Shading is hard to get right - if you do it well people will probably not notice its 3D but if you fail it will stand out VERY much.
Of course, then there are those shows that deliberately use the fact that Cel-shading stands out as an element. (Akito the Exiled used it so that you could see the insanely high level of detail on the models themselves.)
You need watch KENGAN ASHURA!!
I disagree, the reason CG looks crap in anime is because of how bad the timing is, its way too bouncy and floaty.
THE GRAMMAR NAZIS ARE HERE!
*too
OH NO..the humanity...I shall edit it out!
Watch Final Fantasy Kingsglaive.
And that most of the animation is genuinely bad. It's not fluent, it's not natural and the camera work is often horrible.
A lot of animators have trouble making CG figures look like they have weight. Monty Oum got pretty good at it in seasons 8, 9, and 10 of Red Versus Blue.
Well it depends. I'm sure if CG is used right it would even improve a anime (example: land of the lustrous) of course 2D looks really great but it's just harder to make so I'd say that some should 2D and the ones who work well in CG can be made in CG
I'd really like to see Nintendo release some Fire Emblem shorts, like they did for Kid Icarus.
Me too.
They had a Fire Emblem anime a while ago, but it got cancelled after two episodes; I also wish they would make some more. (And a 3D Fire Emblem for NX maybe? Please Nintendo?)
Yeah, the animation from Fates was marvelous. It'd be cool to see them make a series of some kind with it
+Benjamin Garcia The last console FE (Radiant Dawn) failed pretty bad. Maybe if they made a new console FE game it would do well due to the success of it's latest games.
PoR and RD had the best cutscenes though. (English voice acting aside)
I always have preferred 2D to 3D. MADHouse is my favorite style/studio. Whether it be Kaiji or One Outs, Monster or One Punch Man, MADHouse delivers :3
Bones is a close second.
I love madhouse!
All anime is 2D. Whether or not the CG is conspicuous is a different matter.
Madhouse definitely uses CG. They just made it less conspicuous. It's a style choice.
The only CG animation I like is Cory in the House!
Jerod Wolf the animation is so good the characters look real!
Jerod Wolf my favorite CG animation is original jokes
Jerod Wolf I love all those normal maps and shaders! And damn... those rigs really sell the facial deformations!
*cory in the house it not a ANIME!\!!!!!@\11!1!11 ~ Brittany Venti* XD
Christian Perez I know it ~LOOKS~ like live action, but it was all done in CG! Seinfeld was actually the first full CG anime to be recognized by the US, half it's awards are for animation.
While not technically an anime, I always felt that Futurama was really good at blending its 3D and 2D aspects (like the various 3D renders of their spaceship).
Great video, I watched this after watching the BLAME! adaptation that came out this year on netflix.
CG ruining the Anime berserk ;(((
And Ajin ruining to-.-
+SoulYaa kanak Terra Formars to ;(
i couldn't watch RWBY cause of it
its not that bad if u can actually understand it i like cged anime because it just appeals to me
to be fair even the 2d parts of berserk 2016 aren't looking too good
We are back! Sorry I haven't uploaded anything in a while, reasons explained at the end of the video, but I should be posting videos regularly again soon.
If you liked the video, I highly encourage you share it with others, friends, family, whoever on reddit cares. It helps me out a lot and it'd mean quite a bit to me.
Is it just me or the "click here" to that CG video doesn't work?
I fixed it. It should work now.
soooo ähhhhhm whats the anime at 4:45 it seems pretty tasty x) wanna watch
I listened to the whole video but still couldn't find anything about what do you think about berserk(Is the CG ruining it or it actually helps?)...
Martin Dimitrov Pretty sure it ruins it lmao
agreed, CG is indeed ruining anime!
nah not if its used right
Jody Boles
sidonia no kishi was terrible
you have to admit this!
Reyner Godoy never heard of it lol
Jody Boles
you shouldwatch the first season, its cg but the story is pretty cool
the second season is sh*t
Reyner Godoy whats wrong with the second season?
4:17 wow I miss this show
Was my first anime, watched it when I was six and man was it amazing. My dad grew up on it in the 80s
Robotech, if you're wondering. It's on netflix last I checked
The biggest issue I see around when it comes to how people react to 3D is that they don't understand what they are seeing and, due to that, generalize by saying "Anime in 3D are bad". Technically, for the last 15 years, there wasn't a single TV serie anime that wasn't done with at least 50% of its content in 3D. Not.one. For example, One Punch Man is fully done in 3D in over 90% of its scenes.
Then how does it differ so much from something like Berserk 2016-17? There are many things.
Camera controls & settings, facial animation, quality of the overall animation, pacing, etc.
But even without considering the technical aspect done in the 3D stage itself, the biggest thing that seems to varies and affect the result the most is the post-effects stage and that's where, outside of the actual animation quality, One Punch Man display something completely opposite to one like Berserk. First, Post-Effects is the name given to the changes done after the 3D stage for each frame. While, in classical 3D like Pixar, that stage is there they add the "sparkles" and works on adjusting the tones and lighting values (shadows & highlight), in Anime, it's the part where they add details that are too time-consuming to be implement in the 3D. Kinda like the expression, the inconsistent details lines on edges (such as small temporary muscles lines during a pan shot), speed lines, blurry movement (like Dragon Ball's firsts exchanges where they become blurry lines), etc.
For every hour invested in One Punch Man's Post-Effects stage, Berserk only got 5 minutes at most. It's been explained that this was to try a "new technique". They tried to do what was do what Guilty Gear X's team successfully did, but miserably failed: They invested a LOT of time in building a Shader (leaving most of the Post-Effects to a computer-based calculation) instead of investing in 2D animator to work on the previous work like they did in the Golden Age trilogy.
Creations Maxo i dont mind cgi just as its not taken over borad but it can be used to give tep,feeling to a scne such as a chrator looking down into the city or actsion scnes,
I always prefer the Japanese animation from the 80s and 90s.
Daniel Bailey yuyu hakusho
@Daniel Bailey - So much yes!!!!!!
Comparing the cleaner look of Hajime no Ippo, and the more gritty first couple of seasons, I can honestly say that I miss them too
Daniel Bailey Definitely a lot of anime nowadays takes the cute bubbly approach
I Miss the dark and gritty horror animes of the 80's and 90's, particularly Devilman, Devilman Lady, and Berserk
I want to welcome 3D anime but it just looks so fucking bad to me.
I think it's just the noticeable jerkiness of the models.It reminds me of the 3d Code Lyoko and it just doesn't look pleasing.
I recommend checking out Knights of Sidonia on Netflix, if you want an easy example of CG Anime. The story is pretty awesome, which might make up for the unorthodox approach to the animation
+wowokwow I agree completely it's shit
the story is decent but the jerkiness of the models as said by OP is just too much for me. Its not smooth and just gross looking
give it a couple years or a decade and we'll probably have better looking 3D animes that are Pixar level. what I will miss the most though is that hand drawn look. :(
The good news is that Disney and Pixar are trying to create new technology to emulate painterly and hand drawn styles in 3D right now so that is something to look forward to.
Great video! I'm really sorry to hear about your cat. Condolences man!
Anyone know the Anime in 8:51? Reminds me of Another and i'd like to check it out
Ghost in the shell
Isn't Blame! full CG, yet it looks pretty good in my opinion.
Well you got to remember that Blame! is a movie, so it probably has more money behind it and has a shorter running time compared to a full 13-26 episode series.
Not really it looks stiff most of the parts especially when they are walking, looks weird
Berserk...
it was RWBY that introduced me to 3d anime, and i think it was the fact that, according to the western view i'm used to, it technically isn't "anime" because it's not from Japan. so when i watched Land of the Lustrous, i wasn't too weirded out by it being CG instead of 2D. both 2D and CG are gorgeous when done right, and both ugly when done wrong.
Some CG is amazing. In fact for me, CG is great if done right. Gantz: O was beautiful. I just prefer 2D for certain animations because it tends to set a tone better than CG from what I've seen so far. Berserk should have stayed 2D with some CG like the Berserk Golden movie series.
3:00 what anime is that? It's freaking beautiful.
Violet evergarden....its beautiful. Watch it sometime.
@@divyangidongrikar2091 it was good but animation was a mess
@@hirokakhand6584 for real? Share yo thought s
@@hirokakhand6584 how was it a mess? Are you good?
@@hirokakhand6584 it was beautiful
I don't mind some CG anime's that I've been recently watching (never thought I'd like it much I'm still so so with it but) the first time I saw CG in an anime was Overlord and I got to say they nailed it well (Imo)
(and I guess RWBY if you count it I don't know if it does or not)
It does
I don't mind CG if it's like land of the lustrous or beastars since they are fantastic although i still prefer 2d art but the way they did kingdom and berserk was horrible, seeing the amazing art in the manga and then the anime looks like it was drawn and animated by a 3 years old is just so disappointing, i really hope that if vagabond ever gets an anime it doesn't get the same shitty treatment
I always felt like flow lighting and shading are the determining factors. How the characters move, how the light appears on a model weather that be graduation or highlights moving on the model, last is the shading which deals with similar problems.
I just wanna say that Ajin is a great manga but I can't stand watching the anime
At 3:02 whats that anime with the beautiful animation?
thank you.
Violet evergarden, it's not out yet though :(
tbh i entirely hate RWBY
Thanks. Nobody asked.
I can understand. Sometimes, it feels like the whole show is really just for showing decent/somewhat presentable fight scenes. It's really just a generic shounen with a predominantly female cast and CG animation.
Yeah I guess the fighting animation is good enough but everything else is lackluster.
Somebody hasn't seen Volume 3 yet it seems.
Volume 3? I haven't seen episode 3
omg! thank you!! for pointing out the Berserk 2015!!! This series completely passed me by!!! O_O
Berserk is awesome, but I hate the Animation Style.. Ajin is just as bad..
I like English dub of Sato a lot though. His voice fits the character well and he does it well, with the style, when I first watched it, it was weird, like really fucking weird. But now I dont mind it as much anymore
It's funny how the old anime had such a charm to it through it's shameless (budget-restriction imposed, of course) minimalism. Look at just how many still shots their are, how little background noise their is throughout so much of the series, how the collective "war cries" in battle scenes are so laughably 12 people in the studio trying to sound like 12,000. And yet it still feels so much more natural and appropriate than the CG version.
i feel ya
i hate the new berserk (the animation)
Ajin... You gotta get used to it, it's way more better when you keep watching it. I got used to it and enjoying its core now, it is really good once you get used to the animation. ((Especially the action scenes.
The whole video has anime I've never seen my fucking life (besides JoJo) and they look awesome and I want the sauce for every single one
6:42
Right on the cheeks huh
Konnichiwa Senpai, Please notice me,
I watch Asian cartoons, I'm a weeaboo,
I live in my mom's house. I'm like thirty two,
I collect swords and throwing stars, yes I'm a weeaboo,
Sticks and Stones may break my bones,
But I will always be one step ahead of you,
'Cause I read the manga,
(You're such a fucking pleb, are you even even Japanese bro)
I haven't showered in like sixteen weeks,
All my friends and peers are ashamed of me,
'Cause all'O'sudden, I think I'm Japanese
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
A filthy weeaboo (Naruto is SO Over-rated)
A dirty weeaboo (You wanna see my katana collection)
A fucking weeaboo (I'm learning Japanese on Rosetta stone)
A disgusting weeaboo (So I'm like basically Japanese now)
I sit at my computer desk, and argue with teenagers on the internet,
about atheism, and how Japan is superior to other countries,
I learned a bit of japanese,
so now I'm qualified to be a part of their community
so i made my avatar a kawaii waifu
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo
Yes, I'm a weeaboo...
Spreading the franku love, good job
lol yet here you are, watching an anime related video 😂
I hate when someone easily call someone weeboo...even for just beacause wacth one episode of anime.. If i see real weeboo.. then i don't want call it weeboo.. i always remember., mocking to someone is evil,I don't he/she weeboo or not, i better to understand them...
くたばれ
+Spoder News ey b0ss fuk u mang
As someone who has to deal with production art quite regularly, I think this is a great video. Virtually all animation these days, be it a video game or TV show, is done through CG or digital tools past the concepting phase. It's ridiculously cost effective, and it's impossible to get some things right without it. Effects, lighting, physics, perspective. The Itano Circus is a great example. The end product though is stylized by choice. Regardless of whether it is dressed up to APPEAR traditional or rotoscoped, some effort in the production process is expended to accomplish that effect.
I know ths is a year later but I think Houseki no Kuni does CG right
It does for more than do it right. It should be an example for an other studios looking to use a lot of CGI in their anime.
Orange in general is known for its masterful use of 3dCG. (MJP, Hokusei no Kuni...)
In short, blame the user not the tool. Japan uses CG to cut corners, America uses it to simply make content (speed isnt the motivator). Japan tries to imitate drawn animation in CG (and fails half the time/scores big the other half) while the West does their own unique styles without trying imitate something thats expressly different. Use CG to make a 3D Anime, not to speed up the production of a 2D one. Its why shows like JoJo work in 3D and Berserk doesnt you cant use it to cheat, you need to use it for what it exists to do: Create.
Sunrise has been doing CG for years - it shows in series like Thunderbolt, Gundam the Origin, and Akito the Exiled. We also have studios like Orange.
Say hello to RWBY volume 4. It is the best example I can think of that is a regimentation of anime put into cgi. In the new volume it looked at what it did before what anime has done, and just took inspiration. It has hard lines here and there, but is mostly smooth lighting and looks actually fan-fucking-tastic. That is how it is supposed to be done, and I hope Japanese studios take note.
No. still looks horrible.
Kitty Sushi But it still looked better than Japanese CG anime.
RWBY is the ugliest fucking thing I've ever seen..
Yeah RWBY frankly looks amazing in comparison to Berserk 2016/2017
Look in the mirror then
Literally one of my favorite vids on this website
CG looks great in anime. Bad CG is bad like bad animation is bad.
You need to include a list of the shows you cut into the video in the description or have watermarks. Come on man...
Persona 5's character models and cutscenes are honestly my ideal version of CGI anime.
It's so welldone, it makes the anime look like a knock off lmao
Kyoto Animation uses 3D in various scenes. As an example, in the opening of second season of Hibike! Euphonium, there is a subtle use in the backgrounds along with the 2D characters. In Nichijou, it's used for at least one scene with Yuuko and Mai while Mio spectates.
There are some animes clipped into this vid that I would murder to watch just based on some of the visuals but I don't know their names. Maybe put their names in small text when you talk about them?
Yes, I would like to know the Yu-Gi-Oh movie at 4:39 for example.
lucky for you i scrolled through the comments and found out the yugioh movie is called The Dark Side of Dimensions...and reason it looks so good is bc its a 2017 film :D trailer here: /watch?v=L5hx5rvLUN8
Etotama, Jojo's Bizarre World, Knights of Sidonia, Ajin, Cowboy Bebop, Mecorss, Star Wars the Clone Wars, Yugioh, Avatar the Last Airbender, Transformers Prime, Violet Evergreen, Berserk. That should be all the ones from the video, or at least the one's that I know/remember.
11:09 I hate it when shows do this. It never looks good.
Because they miss the point of why low framerate 2D animation works - every frame is designed.
Shit like that they create with 3D animating in mind (many frames interpolated automatically from a few key frames), then slap a 12fps restriction on the render and call it a day.
fist me pepe
Creator of the video: makes a thoughtful analysis on CGI in anime and why it’s so poorly received, citing many examples of both bad and good CGI to conclude that CGI in anime often looks off because the animators are trying to apply principles of 2D that don’t (usually) work in 3D, such as rigid movement, 2D cel shading techniques, and lowered frame rates, and that animesque CGI has a lot of potential if animators can start thinking about how to create styles made for 3D instead of simply copy-pasting 2D styles
Nearly everyone in the comments: “3D anime sucks and is irredeemable because it is just inherently inferior to 2D”
The problem with CG in both anime and movies is that its a shortcut. It gives you more options but more directors will choose the easier path with less cost and often less creativity. Its a doubled edged tool and not many have mastered, some even dislike James Cameron because he massively boosted the CG technology which in turn resulted in the era of so many blockbusters that go easy on the eye and less on detail. Been getting tired of the Transformers and its ilk for some time now.
IMO, CG is best used in dynamic character and camera movements. For example, many Ufotable works are surprisingly CG heavy; however, they use it in such a way that it actually enhances the experience instead of detracts from it.
Another example would be Majestic Prince. All of its fights are CG, however, many people watch it solely for those fights because of how well done they are. (Then again, it is an Orange show, so that's a given.)
Exactly Ufotable is excellent when it comes to CG. Land of the lustrous is also a prime example of CG done right.
@@illegalalien6542 I think Akito the Exiled is also a good example- the models don't really seem stiff, and the animations are surprisingly fluid. I think the key is the fact that they increased the number of frames per second to add in extra frames for things like momentum and such.
And like I said, dynamic character movements - Akito the Exiled is full of 'em.
Why am i here?? I never watch anime...
SAME
its a sighn. You should try to watch some. Go for it! or not whatever you choose man.
lol, why not?
Watch Death Note and you will become a fan. It's available on Netflix.
Not available in germany yet :O
The AOT CG rn is looking kinda weird because the hair isn't moving on some titans.
That what happened when you have a 8 mouth crunch time lol
Aot is ruined, by people that said mappa to finish season 4 in short time, because they wanted to receive money from this
@Izzy aot ending is ass. anime is already fucked
the issue is the shading and the animation key and fast movement that are not drawn realistically in 2D; where in 3D the object moving will still be in the same shape at every frame.