The Decware Zen TORII MK5 - touches down in Belgium!
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Harley will be away on holiday for 10 days, so please bear with us with any delay on replying to comments
In this video I share my thoughts on Decware the company, the purchasing & logistics process of acquiring the Decware Zen Torii V amplifier and, most importantly, my impressions of it, its functionality and its sound characteristics. Enjoy.
Link to my video 'How loud is one Watt?: • How loud is 1 Watt (wi...
Link to the Decware site and Torii V details: www.decwarepro...
Link to Sophia Electric Tubes: sophiaelectric...
If you would like to find out more about Pearl Acoustics and our Sibelius loudspeakers, please visit our website at: www.pearlacoust...
or email us with your questions: enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links:
/ pearlacoustics
/ pearl.acoustics
When I had the Torri MK5, many of my buddies were blown away by it with the Pearl Acoustics Sibelius combo. It is almost as if the amp was made for the Sibelius. I personally prefer it with the Sophia EL34 because it was buttery smooth and very pleasant to listen to. I listened to the Zen UPO the other day, I think that is my favorite low-power tube amp.
THOMAS , Complimenting other amps …what’s wrong with you 😂😎💚💚💚
BEING HONEST ,OBJECTIVE AS ALWAYS 💚💚💚
Thomas is a very classy guy in a business full of scoundrels.
I owned decware Sarah 300B 7w. Would it go well with Sibelius? Mostly I listen to Vocals Pop, jazz, folk songs and soft rocks.
Thomas, a classy Gentleman with a good ear ,cheers from Montreal
@@prutichaijoonkiat8443do you not like it anymore?
Harley, I’d like to second everything you said about Decware and Steve Deckert and add that Steve’s generosity extends even to folks like me that bought the most basic Zen Triode amp (which is an absolute treasure). I live just a couple hours drive from Decware, so after a 14 month wait (an early adopter, I guess, in the current scheme of things), I picked it up in person. Steve spent several hours with me in his workshop and listening-room listening to music, chatting and discussing, among other things, possible explanations for late-night holography including a theory involving the earth shielding the sun 🌞… an afternoon I’ll never forget.
Thanks for your lovely comment
Harley, I can’t believe that I have ever seen you so excited! It’s like seeing a young boy on Christmas morning getting exactly what he ask Santa for. It really made me happy to see you so happy.😀
Thanks! 😀
Sarah and Veronica are very polite, great service. I should receive their 300B in 2 weeks!
I love how Harley expresses genuine feelings in these videos
🙏
Congratulations, Harley! This is a wonderful review! I have the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode (only 2.3 Watts, but with voltage regulator tubes for each and every audio tube, which makes it truly unique, like a tube amp running on battery power), and absolutely love it! It's not the only great amp I own, let alone have heard, but agree there's something "magical" about it that is hard to put into words: a very direct, emotional connection to the music that's likely due to the simplicity of its circuit (likely the same you showed for the standard Zen Triode). Yes, it won't drive any speaker, and not in any size room, but I'm surprised it'll play louder than "late night" levels without compression, sounding transparent, large-scaled, lively and lifelike. Besides, those standard 6N1P-EV your amp came with are a lovely, warm sounding input/driver tube that's probably impossible to beat in its price category. I've tried maybe two dozen preamp tubes from the ECC88 / E88CC / ECC188 / CCa / PCC88 / 6N5P / 6N23P / 6N6P families, which all sound different, as do different rectifiers like 5U4G / 5C3S / 5AR4 / GZ34 Metal Base / GZ480 - having said all that, while even greater system synergy and possibly sound quality may be achieved rolling tubes, I find Steve's affordable tubes that the amps come with carefully "curated", he sure knows what he's doing. If anything, don't underestimate the fundamental, and often substantial difference rectifiers make.
Thanks for your kind comment and contribution to the discussion
As someone waiting in line for the 25th Anniversary amp, can you share more of your thoughts on the pros and cons of the amp? I'll be hooking them up to a pair of Forte IVs.
I deperately want to experience a decware, the only thing that puts me off is the waitlist, but the sound is exactly what im looking for. Excellent video as always.
Thanks! Maybe one day
All else being equal the actual wait time is being reduce as Steve has added personnel and re-prioritize some type of HW over others.
I say, think of your Decware not as your next upgrade but as the one after the next, and order the Decware today.
🙂
FYI, I'm currently on the waiting list, 11 months now. When I ordered it I knew I wouldn't receive it for over a year, but was told it could be up to two years. That's a long time, but I ordered it anyway. Right now I'd be thrilled if I got it in two years. Based on the amount of units being made per week up to this point (it varies), I'd feel fortunate to have it in 2 1/2 years, but looks like closer to three. Holidays coming up, they're going to take time off and they should. Maybe they know something I don't, and if I get it in two years that's great. Bottom line, I'm not going to cancel it, but if it ends up being 2 1/2 to 3 years, I wouldn't have ordered it if I would've known that.
@@cardinalfang7725 that’s exactly it, you’ve gotta see it as investing in a piece for a lifetime, the wait is as long as it will be, but the rewards will go on and on.
I have 2 Zen Triodes on order
I've seen content on Deckware but only now have appreciated, and am over the moon delighted, by the realization of Zen, in Peoria.
It is substantial. Not only the technical result but also the family / team acumen to run the business and sustain it, year on year, without selling out to the big multinationals.
I had the pleasure of meeting Steve and his family at Decfest 2022 while I was still waiting for my 25th anniversary amp. Such nice people - I was even more glad I'd ordered it after meeting them. And then when I got the little amp... oh wow. As you say, I intend to keep this one forever.
Nice
Harley, the holographic sound you describe is similar to my experience in my Tesla. And I have the BASE sound system. It's amazing what a creative designer can produce. Much like a great speaker designer. ;)
Indeed…. 😉
I live near Decware in Illinois. Their listening room is incredible and I visit it often 😎
Oh that’s nice. I would love to visit one day
As the crow flies. I am 2 or 3 miles from Decware. I sold my Torii, Jr in order to upgrade my vinyl rig as I’m on the wait list for a UFO, 2.3W.
I have a First Watt and the Jr, eats it for lunch in EVERY way but a couple… clean power and bass driver control. SS wins the slammin’ bass contest every time. But the THICK sound of the Decware. Its density is perhaps what lends to the holographic sound stage. Yeah. The F7 is quite flat in comparison. Only a year more to go!
i have had a torii mk v for about a year now. i love it!!! i had to wait for over a year but it was worth it!!!
Good to hear!
I have a Decware Zen Triode. As with any low power amp it needs careful speaker matching, but it's fantastic, at times spooky good. And Steve has got to be the nicest, most unpretentious guy in the business. He spoke with me at length before I purchased, listened carefully and asked a lot of questions to make sure he knew what I was after and would match me up with the right amp. Highest recommendation.
Thanks for sharing!
Lovely overview of your experience. The Decware clearly reaches you at an emotional level. It just doesn’t get any better in this hobby. Thanks for sharing. I was informed and entertained. The one-two punch!
Thank you. So glad you enjoyed it
Harley, after hearing you describe in detail the incredible capabilities of the Decware ZenTorii V, I felt so inadequate because I was afraid that I could not experience the nuances of this great machine as you could. Anyway, thanks so much for sharing this with your followers. Looking forward to more enlightening episodes from you. All the best.
Thanks you’re very kind
I have my Pearl Acoustics paired up with the Decware Sarah 300B and while a different model, I share an identical experience. This past Sunday, I sat down with my cup of coffee at 6 and turned out to be a 3.5 hour session and three hungry kids wonder where Sunday breakfast was.
😀
Spencer, are you coming to Decfest this year? Would love to reconnect and hear firsthand, your experience with Sarah!
Decware amps may not be for everyone, but almost everyone who gets it will hang onto theirs. I bought the 5-6 watt SE 34.I5 (I think they are up to I6 now) and I love it. It is funny, when I got the email from Steve saying "Hey, we can chat sometime and I can help you with your sonic goals," I never responded because I was so intimidated. I know next to nothing about this stuff, but I like the way it sounds. Too afraid to come across like an idiot. lol Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Torii!
Know how you feel. Put my order in on the SE341.6 and the ZP3 about a month and a half ago. Know it’s going to be worth the wait, but don’t know anything about it. Going to need all the help I can get. 😊
Same here about the idiot part 😂
Talked w Steve and stammered through the whole conversation. Told him what I had and he said here’s what you need . 😊
@@markorlando I do not miss checking the build sheet every couple of weeks to see if I moved up yet. Patience was never my strong suit. I have had my amp for over a year now.... definitely worth it.
@@rhorto01 I know . I can’t wait . Hope I’ll know how to hook it up😊
There is a sense in which I wish I hadn’t watched this wonderful review of the Torii Mk V. I can only echo what others have expressed about how you spoke of the emotions that this amplifier evoked in your listening, as well as its fundamental *character*, as opposed to a more technical review.
I have owned a DECware Zen SE84UFO since 2018, when wait times were four months or less! The Zen amp had been on my radar since the very first model from the mid 1990s. Steve’s explanation of “getting the first watt right” captured my technical yet non-engineer imagination. Years later I finally had the wherewithal to order the current version.
The amp met every expectation, despite an initial problem with the 274B rectifier tube getting damaged in shipping. After some initial months of getting used to the amp and having it “break in” I started tube rolling. This proved to be loads of fun!
The biggest surprise was when I swapped out the rectifier tubes I had been trying for a “vintage” Sylvania Type 80 tube along with the required pinout adapter. The effect was *immediately* discernable - suddenly there was more dynamic range and it felt as if the amp had been working out in a fitness gym for months as was now “ripped”.
I’ve also swapped out the power tubes and input tube and gotten the Zen to a stage that is very satisfying. That’s not to say that I won’t keep rolling, but if I couldn’t do any more tube exchanges, I’d be satisfied.
So this brings me to the Torii … it is true that even with my reasonably efficient Triangle 40th Anniversary Comètes and a subwoofer, I would like some more “grunt”. The Torii would seem to fit the bill, however it would stretch my budget. Knowing that there is a full return policy (less shipping fees) is a positive, but I think I may try a high gain pre-amp first.
Finally (and apologies for the length of this) I will absolutely concur with your comments regarding Steve and the DECware team. It’s not too surprising. While there are a range of personality types and human characteristics anywhere on the planet, East Peoria is as much solidly “middle America” as anywhere. Steve is of that solid, down-to-earth, kind, giving swath of humanity. In most ways Central Illinois is not “exciting”. Most people just go about life trying to make their way and contribute to humanity. Steve, his family and crew are great examples.
Thanks for your kind words and interesting comment.
I've a new KT88 amp and have rebuilt my vintage KT66 amp. They both have a lovely musical sound to them. I'm sure your Decware Zen is spectacular!!! Well done Video thank you.
Thanks!
Fantastic review Harley!!! You have lifted my spirits more than you know. I’m at the very pointy end of the Decware build sheet and eagerly await my Torii Mk5. I had ordered the Ufo2 but after being on the list for two years took the plunge and upgraded. This is my first serious dive into audio world. I have it fully specked minus Xlr balanced inputs. My question would be am I selling myself short on this option? Also what pre amps do you use ? I absolutely adore your Sebelius speakers and they are definitely on the wish list. We are on polar opposite sides of the world and completely different people bought together by you and people like Steve’s pure passion for making to me some of the most desirable and stunning crafted gear in the world. Keep up the glorious work and brilliant videos.
Kristian
Hi Kristian. Thank you so much for your appreciation. You are definitely not selling yourself short, the balanced in does not improve the sound in anyway (in my opinion), it is just a convenience thing on my part. Next time round, I would not spend the extra unless I was linking it specifically with a preamp that has a genuinely fully balanced architecture. I have used it with a few preamplifiers, Sugden, Lyngdorf, Pro-ject and Musical Fidelity. It does not seem to be fussy. But the more output your pre has, the better, because you can then turn down the gain on the amp and pump up the preamp volume
Great review, amplifier with a lifetime guarantee it’s almost unheard-of !!
Very true! Thanks for your kind comment
Fabulous to see you give such a strong review of the Decware. I’m even more pleased that you see you so enjoy the Sibelius with this amp; have they ever sounded so good as with the Tori? I have a Zen Mystery on order, which is something big to look forward to 😊
For me, if not the best, its certainly well up there. It has its own character. I get something similar with the Sugden Master Class series pre amplifier and SP4 amplifier but combined, they are about 10,5K EUR! But the holographic engagement is unique. It seems built for the Sibelius.
Amazing review. I received my Decware SE84UFO2.1 Zen Triode Amplifier after a year and nine months and it was worth every second that I waited. Outstanding amp.
Now it's time to find you a real nos EL84 or an 7320 tube and enjoy even more your ZEN AMP.
As long as I don't have to take on a 2nd mortgage I'm open to suggestions. lol. @@frankgeeraerts6243
Thanks! Your very kind. Can only agree of course!
Love your generosity despite the fact that your making an amplifier that you'll hope to sell in droves sometime soon.
Thanks! That’s a very kind observation.
HARLEY …I ALWAYS FIND YOUR VIDEOS interesting ,educational ,and enjoyable 🧐🧐🤗💚💚💚
Thank you! Glad you like them
beautiful video. thank you for your thoughts and expression on this amp, and the art of delivering beautiful audio through elegant design.
Thank you kindly!
Harley, I really appreciate this video. I had already put a smaller 2.3 amp Decware amp on order and was able to switch that over to a Zen TORII MK V without losing my place in queue :)
Glad it helped! I think you made an excellent decision. The Torri is extremely versatile
Harley, I love your videos and that amplifier looked superb. The first amplifier I built many decades ago was a Williamson amplifier - you briefly showed a page with the circuit diagram in the video - and I bought (for the time) really expensive Partridge WWFB type output transformers and it had KT66's i the output stage and I loved it. When stereo came along I duplicated it and I was in the seventh heaven. However, I have to admit that when John Linsley-Hood's class A transistor amplifier appeared I decided to build one and with the fourth generation layout and componentry I finally struck gold and that is now my standard and they drive full range electrostatic speakers to perfection.
Wonderful story. Thanks for sharing! And thanks for your kind appreciation too. Enjoy the music
You are 100% accurate about the Decware customer experience. I own the model ZH-1 'The Zen Head' amp bought it 10 years ago, still have it, still love it, only required service once. In many ways I still prefer the sound of the ZH-1 over other pricey headphone tube & ss amps I own for two primary reasons. First being it is a 9vdc battery powered amp, I can't think of a power supply more audio quality pristine than a direct current battery. Second it was tuned by the ears of the master himself, Steve Deckert, I know exactly what tone-wood is capable of as a speaker enclosure, specifically the mahogany magic of the Grado labs GS1000e headphones and the ZH-1 headamp, trigger the euphonic surge of feels in the neck and shoulders with ease. Tube like euphonics without the tube surf microphnics. " It was designed for serious audiophiles" - Steve Deckert, the guy is an American legend in HiFi, up near McIntosh
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic
If the room is not fully sealed from the outside environment, then it's because it's sleeping hour (less noise/use of power). Making it sound better/clear at 2am. I agree with him. It's so much better at night.
Thank you for sharing.
You’re welcome. Thanks
Great video ! Always had my eye on Decware amps ! Have a hybrid tube amp , and Salk songsuround monitors ! Even with just 2 12ax7 tubes amazing sound ! The Tori must be heavily!! Also love the piano at the end of your video!👍
Thanx for sharing the video specially your emotion
I can totally relate to
I look at Music as a universal and timeless entity
It keeps you young at times it's like a time machine
I still listen to albums from 17 years ago and I close my eyes I can picture myself exactly where I was and all sensory inputs olfactory auditory visual tactile are all there, unbelievable experience
🎉🎉🎉❤
So glad you enjoyed it
What a wonderful review Harley-well deserved!
Thanks!
I have the Zen for a year and a half now, I know I 'll keep this amp until the end, it is a rock solid base sound wise and will never be the "weak link" of a system IF you respect it and give it 92db speakers or above. The magic is then at low to very low level, you'll get more of the music. Steve has also a 300B now in case you are after that.....but he is offering a complete range of speakers to go along and THIS to me is very underview . You have a good source, get to Deware for the rest !
Final grain of salt, get to the site and read Steve's articles ....I guess you'll learn plenty !
Reading Steve’s white papers on his website was one of the ways I whiled away the months while my name made its way up the Decware build list.
😀
Thanks for a truly fantastic video Harley 👌
You’re very welcome
I truly admire Ear Yoshino V12 integrated amplifier designed by the great late Baron Tim de Paravicini when it comes to tube amplifiers and Herron Audio when it comes to hybrid amplifier and of course TRILOGY AUDIO as well. Thank you 🙏🏼 for sharing this gem 💎 of an audiophile amplifier in this video. 🫵🎶💎✨♾️🤩
You’re very welcome
Love this interview!! I had no idea Dr Will was banned from vegfest. What a sad comment.
Great review. I have listened to so many other amps and have never heard anything as magical and musical. Several months ago I was in San Diego and listened to a $500k system and walked away almost giddy. While what I was listening to had a wonderful sound, it just wasn't as musical as what I have. What I have sounds lots better. I have the SE34I. Your tube description of comparing the EL34 to the KT66 was spot on. I have preferred the EL34, as this gives more of a reach around and soft grab with the bass. The bass is all there, but so oozie and wonderful, similar to what ThomasAndStereo is saying. Could be an amp difference or a speaker difference? You have less efficient speakers than me, but much more of a power house. My son summed the sound up by saying, "its like watching an old tube TV and comparing to a 4K screen".
Thanks for your kind appreciation and for adding to the discussion
I waited a bit more than a year for my SE84UFO2 with all options.
Time well spent!
I am playing with different speaker and open baffles and different driver, then I have tried a few different phono-Amps. At some point I will certainly do some tube swapping (but the ones on the UFO seems to keep improving the more time I put on them!).
So in short I am in sound Nirvana.
Nice to hear that
A thing of beauty for sure. Wow
👍
I have ordered (Jan 2023) The Zen Sarah Amp Model SEWE300B and looking at 2years. I have 4 other Tube Amp's and will wait until one day an Email will say, "Your Amp is in production".
😀
If you can ever make the trip to the US in early October, you should attend Decfest. Quite the event.
Thanks!
I've had a pair of SE84UFO for about 6 months (running in mono, 1/ch) driving a pair of 100dB/w/m speakers. And as Harley mentioned, yes they are everything everyone has been saying about them. The only real criticism I have is the very lowest frequencies. On louder passages, they seem to not necessarily run-out-of-steam per se', but start to have trouble reproducing those "subwoofer" range frequencies, especially with volume, without a high pass filter (and sending the lowest frequencies to a sub(s)). The is some noticeable noise and 60Hz hum, although much, much lower than most SET zero feedback amps I've heard. I have a VERY quiet purpose built room so not surprising. Highly Recommended.
Thanks for your comment. I have not noticed any of the symptoms you describe. Maybe reach out to Steve as it does not sound normal
Great review not only on the gear but Steve and his company.
Thanks!
I'm with you... I've ordered one but I don't want to wait so I've also ordered one of their DIY kit. I'm waiting for the last of the parts to arrive so I can build it myself
👍
10:00 Point source speakers are a big factor in this phenomenon. I was looking out the window for a jet flying past low when I suddenly realised it was from my point source speakers. My friend was listening to his point source speakers (I built for him) and he was trying to stop his phone from "making a strange sound". He even grabbed the phone and tried to make it "stop" when he suddenly realised it was a sound from the speakers! And with a cheap class D amp. 😅 My amp is an Audiolab AB. I sometimes turn around startled, hearing a voice that sounds like it's in the room and realise it's the speakers. My single driver speaker drivers are modified for more khz and also mounted partially open (with the sound coming from the back and the front of the cone). The box warmes up the open sound and gives it bass. Boxes are oversize compared to the single driver size. The speaker hole has a bass vent tube so it's not sounding bonky with the gap between the driver and the box.😅
Thanks for your contribution to the topic
This Decware really has the look of a vintage tube amp, although I have no doubt that it sounds fantastic, I would have a hard time to watch it in my living room. On the other hand Fezz Audio from Poland is a fine example of a modern design tube amplifier.
And Lab12 in Athens
Indeed
5:32 definitely agree that in the early hours of the morning sounds better but its not for the power reason, i don't think. Usually then at around 2-3 is the quietest hours of the day i have found out. So, the sound floor is much lesser and small details "pop" more. I'm sure this is the case because this has happened to me with open back headphones and my phone which has a battery in it so it doesn't get power quality fluctuations. Very cool story and review.
It could be both for those running on mains.
Indeed
LOVED THIS
Thanks!
The music sounds better at 2 or 3 in the morning because more dope has been smoked 🤪
Got it in one.
👍
😂
And the waiting list just got a whole lot longer ;-)
😀
The zen has 10 components including the output trans.
Hi Harley, please remember the Musical Fidelity review. Regards from New Zealand.
Indeed. I am waiting for the A1 to arrive and maybe I will do a comparison. Best wishes
Great talk. Jolly interesting.
Thanks!
I have the Decware 341.5 and I’m not sure how any other amp would sound “better.” So I’m various curious what your future design is trying to accomplish. More base slam? Greater clarity in the highs? More mid range spaciousness? I guess what I’m saying is that with a simple tube amp and a lot of tube rolling, can’t I use just about any mid priced amp to achieve the differences you are seeking.
Our search for our own amplifier started before I heard the Decware. But as you know, Decware cannot meet everyone’s needs. Ours two amplifiers will be different. One based in class D, the other will be a tube amplifier. Only time will tell… there is plenty of room for diversity in our exciting hobby
In 2016 I talked to Steve at Decware for 45 minutes on the phone before I ordered a SE84UFO. Back then it was a few months wait. I still have the amplifier and will never part with it.
Nice
Did I hear the MSRP and the current lead time?
Hi, good point. I tend to steer away from that topic because it’s so variable, over the years. but I did include a link to the company’s website where one can find all the latest information.
Nice review. have to look into this ...
Thanks! But what should I look into? 😉
Dear Harley, you already did all this great review work. Now it is time for me to look more at Decware. Sorry for having been unclear.@@PearlAcoustics
@@danielgeiger7739 no worries at all!
What phono stage are you using with de Decware? ….Thankyou
The Rega Aria
Fabulous :)
Thanks!
Who makes their tubes?
Hi thanks for your question. I believe Decware source their tubes from a number of suppliers and manufacturers.
Waited 1,5 year and received my Zen last Xmas... Living happily with it since then, matches nice with my Shindo preamp, power is enough for my vintage Altecs... Only thing that annoys me is a bit of hum from the power transformer going to the speakers... it's very low but with very efficient speakers I can notice it when the music is super quiet... Have you experienced that with your Zen?
Never experienced that. I strongly suggest you reach out to Steve. I am sure he can fix it.
@@PearlAcoustics tried to reach Steve as soon as i got it and noticed it but no answer... I'mma try again
How does it compare to Thomas’ Galeon?
They both do a great job but the Torri V has an extra something that works really well with our loudspeakers
You can immediately see this 9:20 picture in 3d with the vid paused and zoomed in a bit. Simply cross your eyes (just so) as you look at the two pictures.
😀👍
Did you use a preamp into the amp or directly from the source? Thanks for some great talks.
Hi, I tried both. Using a preamp means you get a remote control and some convenience. But it’s fine without
Is using a preamp necessary/ or advantageous with the Decware or is it ok to wire one's DAC directly into the Decware?
You can wire your Dac directly to it, it’s up to you. If you have a Dac with a remote and variable output, you then have the convenience of a remote…
Your speakers are using Apair drivers and the are not high sensitivity, that's why you need more watts. You could use also a 0.75W valve amplifier if you have the right speakers
Hello Harley , another very passionate revies ....
Yes Deckert is a strange bird in the audio manufacture aviary .
This amplifier is build with current production tubes as today manufacturers have no choice .
As good as some current production can be they will never equal those tubes made with the know how, chemistery and recipes of the great old brands, also new legislatio n does no longer alllow the use of many harmfull materials used in the past ...
But no worry Decware did a great job .....
If you are realy beguiled by this amp , you could go on a chase for tubes made in the past .
Give you some ideas if you please ..
About EL34 ..........probably the best EL34 made .
EL34 Mullard xf series.
6CA7 GE ( fat boy ) equivalent but a beampower instead of a penthode, this one is one of my favoured tubes of all time . ( With Franky goes to Hollywood you are realy under the dome ! )
Older RFT EL34 are very good too ( sold under many different brand names , even AEG /Siemens etc)
EL 34 Telefunken ( most EL34 TFK are made by other companies so I talk about the real TFK production )
Then there's another nos tube I love over the many , the SYLVANIA tall bottle 7027A.........no other brand !
This tube drives my old Mac Intosh into a glorious musical heaven.....
No current production tube has the lifespan of an NOS tube.......the better old tubes will still sound musical when their voice ages and they will still sing like grandparents do at their age , with lasting emotion lacking the energy of their youth , this will have long dissapeared with current production tubes as soon as rthe freshness of their youth is gone and their emotion fades out to soon .
It is become very difficult to find these nos tubes today , most are now in private stock , no longer avauilable or obsolete and very , very expensive .
But sometimes luck may pass in front of you , then it's aquestion to grab it before the train passed away forever ...
It would be a great experience if you have a friend lending you some of these precious tubes.....and to discover what musical secrets this amplifier is still hiding in his belly .
have a noice experience with this amp that is like some rare other amplifiers like yamamoto etc rather a musical instrument than an simple electrical tool......with good numbers on glossy papers.
Have a nice day Harley and thank you sharing .
PS :
Same observations do apply to the input tubes and the rectifiers........
Before proposing an amp, Steve makes a lot of tests of different tubes, over sometime a very long period. Of course he does it with different speakers and you can be sure that his proposal would fit 85 to 90% of his customers systems ! The tubes of the past aren't nescessarily better on his amps.....but we all know the thing has to be incorporated into a system and personal test varies a lot .
Of course he voiced his amp with the tubes available today .....we all do .
Even Thomas does it with his Gallion.......
I noticed you missed the point of my comment , .......any way my comment was no critiscism but only sharing almost 70 tears of tube experience.
By the way , no current production comes up to the standards and musical qualities of genuine nos tubes...and that's A fact !
Personaly I never use new production , I have personal lifetime nos stock to fullfill my needs for listening, retubing, repairing and building amplifiers,
I only wanted to share with you and invited you to do the experience trying those tubes in what seems an amplier with a potential to reveal quality of nos tubes , musicality as good as what is possible with your Sibelius speaker and in this particular case with the new Torri amplifier you acquired , that's what you claim to strive with your videos , the best natural and nuanced musical reproduction one can achieve.
Therefore I will no longer bother you with my comments on your uploads even if I like sharing your passion of music.
PS :
The obsolete E34L from TESLA was another fabulous tube , never heard a better bass perfomance ..............has nothing to with the current JJ E34L which is no match, inferior and very different sounding than the original.
Have a pleasant evening Harley . ..and it doesn't rain in Tienen .
@@chengo51
Thank you for your very kind appreciation and contribution to the discussion
Maybe one day we'll meet ..........where's your shop ? @@PearlAcoustics
@@frankgeeraerts6243 I am based in Belgium but we have listening facilities in many locations, feel free to reach out via our website. Best wishes
Hello there. How much was the total price please?
I don’t remember exactly but it was about 5.5k Eur, because I had all the extras. The big extra of xlr and rca inputs added nearly 750eur more.
Enjoy. Well done to all the team at Decware.@@PearlAcoustics
This guy should sell these amps.
😂
Have you tried any Decware speakers?
No, sadly, not heard any yet
Harley how about Decware Zma pair with Sebelius ? I just place an order with Ajay.
Hi Ben, thanks for your question. It will be an absolutely wonderful match, if you can get your hands on one! Enjoy
So have you compare ZMA N TORII before. Would love to hear your opinion about the difference?
@@PearlAcoustics I am considering it. So need to do more research n hear more opinions from you , Thomas , other …..
@@benjaminfong7473 no I have not done a direct comparison, but people I respect have. There comes a time when a company’s reputation is so high, that one can trust that two very similar models will both have their strong points resulting (most likely) in very subtle differences. But none big enough to cause concern. I hope that helps?
Thank you for your advise. Appreciated 🙏
If I had that amplifier I’d never sell it there meant to be amazing
Creating an artificial waiting list is a long standing tactic to create interest. It's been done by many bicycle builders. And of course how many of us have stood in a line for a club to get in and find it's nearly empty. Even recently getting my youngest into a parkour gym they made people wait a few months.
I have no idea if that's what they're doing, but, when EVERY reviewer talks about the wait, it peeks interest. I guess I'm just suspicious by nature.
Thanks for your comment but I do indeed believe you are being too suspicious here. Decware are decent people and I cannot see any financial advantage for them to create some kind of availability scam.
@@PearlAcoustics I'm definitely not suggesting there's a scam, but, it does benefit them. Queses, real or artificial, create interest. And, how exciting when you find out your at the head of the line. The product only had to be "good" and expectations take over. We are all aware there is an psychological aspect to audio. Just a quick read of tweak or cable groups will let you know that.
This is in no way meant to disparage Decware. To the contrary, I'd like to own one. For years now I've wanted to acquire an Music Reference RM-9 from Roger Modjeski. They seem to follow the same minimalist philosophy and a similar look.
I like supporting smaller companies and there is no denying the pride of exclusivity. As with my new monoblocks from Monarchy Audio. They are great sounding and were reasonably priced. A husband and wife team. Sadly he retired last year but will still answer any question you might have.
Hope to see you again at the Northwest Audio Show.
Yes magic sound out of valves designed in the 1950's. Its 2023 and they still have not made anything better.
Thanks for your comment
Power is very overrated especially for in home stereo listening. I power my Magnepan speakers with 125wpc tube amp and I can easily get 85db at my listening position which is around 8 feet away.
Hi, I am interested in which tube amp you use. I love tube sound and my existing Martin Logan Electrostatic speakers, but have trouble finding one powerful enough. 20wpc of the TORII sounds too low for the ML sensitivity. Thanks!
@@OlympicBruce I use a Tube amp Kit from Tubes 4 HiFi. The Mono 125wpc version.
It goes up to 20-that's 9 louder than 11! Spinal Tap would love it.
Your comment made me laugh. Thanks 😂
😂
Great review - I like the fact the tubes are given an easy life! - It's easy to be temped by more powerful tube amps, though you find it needs 'X' tube to really sing and before you know it, its costing hundreds a year to keep it afloat!
Absolutely! Thanks for your appreciation
Great open and honest review, thank you. My company motto when I was in business was,
''I will turn you down before I let you down''. Regarding electricity. I now live in an Eastern European sea side resort where the population goes from 1 thousand to around 40,000 in the summer months. When all the aircon units kick in it renders my lowly Naim/Spendor system unlistenable at high volume levels. Clipping and distorted. I have seen the voltage here drop as low as 190v.
Wow!
Your recount of the entire experience is spot on. Everything about this company screams soul. If every business owner conducted themselves the way Steve and his crew at Decware does, the world would be vastly different. I waited 2 years for more Torii MKV and I would do it again without question. As soon as I unboxed it and hooked it up, I honestly had no idea what to expect. And when the sound came out and filled the room, there was an immediate emotion that overwhelmed me that I have never felt before. Everything about the interaction was absolutely pleasant. If you think about it.....that sounds pretty ridiculous considering you are waiting 2 years for an item. But it was just that, pleasant. No arrogance. Clear communication and tremendous value for my money.
Thanks for your comment. So glad to know we share a common experience
May I ask which speakers you are using with your Tori?
@@DKR-1881 sure! They are our Sibelius loudspeakers. From our company Pearl Acoustics.
i bought the "Rachel" amp, and it is the first piece of gear i listened to *while* it was breaking in!?
@@DKR-1881 This is very late but I am using the Lii Audio Origin S10. Magnificent combo
I’m just exploring these types of amps for the first time, but am surprised that audiophiles use valve amplifiers that are much more than 5-10 watts per channel. I play guitar, and even a 1 watt valve amp is pretty loud. We generally use higher wattage as a way to avoid distortion (or too much distortion … rock and roll man!). My 20-watt guitar amp will blow your ears off in a small venue, not much less volume than a 100-watt amp. Digital, solid state amps (in guitar world) are much higher wattage but not as loud. I assume that is similar to audiophile amps.
Interesting comment. Maybe this might help? Guitar amplifiers are amplifying a relatively narrow bandwidth, therefore they can use very efficient loudspeakers within it. A hifi system has to be able to handle everything from the crash of a deep kettle drum our row of acoustic double basses - right through to the highs of triangles and cymbals. Especially in the lower register, a lot of energy is needed.
@@PearlAcoustics That does make sense to me. I imagine plugging a complex arrangement into a guitar amp’s input would be unpleasantly mid-focused, and just make part of the music loud. My Arcam FMJ inexplicably bricked and since I only use it to listen to vinyl I thought something simpler, and just stereo would suit me better … but there is quite a bit to learn. I appreciate your videos and those of your other enthusiasts, quite a steep learning curve to find what will work and not require a second mortgage on the house! :)
SET for the rest of your life with that set up.
Absolutely
Thanks Harley, love your passion.
I wish I could put engineering aside and just listen but, mea culpa - I can't! When I see the Zen or this more expensive amp I see circuits and biases and bypass caps and all the rest. I want something to sound great but I know too much to dismiss bad science.
The guy who gets all the credit for harmonics is Nelson Pass. He had the courage to sit people down and play different amps and ask them what they liked, pretty much all of us, including me like the way tubes clip and their second order harmonics, DEC isn't breaking any ground here, Nelson deserves that credit.
The DEC's use rectifier tubes and tube regulators - useless! It's DC and you can't hear DC, there is absolutely no difference between a rectifier tube and a silicon diode, they are both diodes and they both do the same thing, let current pass in only one direction. Once that is filtered it is DC or as close to DC as we can get. Audio tubes don't care if the DC is from a tube or a diode - it's DC - period.
We can make amps with the same characteristics as the DEC's, he's got no secret formula, I've seen his circuits, I've designed and built amps for years and other people have built my amps for years too. Lots of people build great tube amps (McIntosh, Luxman, etc.), they may design them for different characteristics but they're good solid amps. If you gave an engineer a precision instrument with a rectifier tube he'd laugh and give it back to you.
I wonder if you've ever heard Nelson's amps or even have one and what you thought?
Thanks very much for your kind appreciation. Indeed I have a Nelson Pass amp (Int 25) and know his amplifiers very well. First Watt, 30.8 etc etc. I have reviewed some too.
It looks like as chessboard! 👍🏽
:-)
what an AWESOME Review . love your Passion..
sorry for my ignorance. i just discovered DECWARE today ! ( better late than never).. and i'm almost sold on this Brand. just have to do some research and read up more about it before i pull the trigger. Thank you.
(on a side note. hope i can find another review of Decware Amp paired with HARBETH M40.3 speakers).
Thanks for your comment and kind appreciation! There are plenty of reviews on Decware amplifiers. If you have any doubts, reach out to Steve Deckert directly, he’s really helpful and will suggest what’s best for you. But be prepared first a long wait! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks for your reply... oh i'm very patient. i believe that good things take time to make..
Altay Otyken
I desperately want one, thank you for explaining it’s attributes so succinctly.
You’re very welcome
Interesting video 👍. And i absolutely agree that in the early hours of the day music sounds much better. At that time I mostly use headphones which are opened back desgn and i always thought that it is due to lower background noise and night silence. But obviously there is another quite logical reason and yes it is the quality of electricity
Some believe it has more to do with the rotation of the earth w the sun being further away. Just a hypothesis but it is interesting
Thanks for your kind appreciation. I think there can be several reasons as to why music can sound better at night, with the quality of the electricity supply being one of them. Our frame of mind too is an important factor
Great review sir brilliant thank you.
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it
Welcome to Decware.
Thanks!
Every one of the DEC amplifiers produces stunning sound quality.
Another tube amplifier that I would recommend is the Line Magnetic
845 IA Premium. This 30 W/channel class A amplifier can drive Magie 20.7's if you can believe it. At $9000 it probably can outperform amplifiers that are so much more money that I don't want to make claims about what multiple of its cost they can go head-to- head with.
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the discussion
I wanted to come to listen in januari, but finishing our new home takes too long. I hope we can move in in September. But watching this video makes me long for a visit even more. This match makes me very very curious.
You’re always very welcome… 😀
You don't need to describe all of the different sonic characteristics of the amplifier because the music just flows out of your speakers and all it takes is a minute or two to realize that this is exactly the way you'd like to hear reproduced recordings.
Indeed
Amen! The synergy with the Sibelius, was elegant and luxurious.
Thanks, I can only agree 😉
Another fun video. Very interested to hear you are developing an amp! If it doesn't work out with the current consultant, get in touch. I have a great DIY design I would love to provide for your consideration 😂😂
Thanks. Very kind! We are always interested in new ideas!
I can understand your repeated fascinations with Thomas & Stereo's choices, I too am a great fan of Thomas & Stereo.
Absolutely
Looks like a need to buy a plane ticket to Belgium. I have been wanting to hear the Sibelius speakers as well. I cannot hear them in the USA. 😢
Hi… we have listening rooms in the USA too, feel free to reach out to us via our website and maybe we can arrange something for you…
I have had the TORII monos since December 2013. 60 watts class A drive my Wilson Sofia Series 2 way louder than I can deal with. Excellent products and excellent people.
Indeed
Wonderful video as ever and I will invest in a Declare as soon as I can speak to them in the US. Thank you. Great stuff!!!
Glad it was helpful!