@@PearlAcoustics An underpowered tube amp doing soft clipping at the peaks is by design, in my opinion, much inferior to a well-built transistor amp that can keep the signal shape intact at the peaks. But, if someone really likes having musical distortion added, then tubes can do the job. Any notion that adding a tube stage makes the sound more loyal to the master signal is bogus and a DSP can easily do what a tube can do in terms of incremental distortion effects (incl. do it better) for those wanting such sound.
@@ThinkingBetter I am absolutely in line with you here. However, sometimes scientifically ‘better’ does not sound so pleasing. It’s a very emotive area where I dare not intrude. As I say in my video. On a cold winters night with a glass of wine and the warm glow of two, very high quality tube amplifiers not running anywhere near their max - life is just perfect. But in the summer when I need to analyse exactly what is happening in a mix. Or just hear it ‘as it was’ - a top quality transistor amplifier is a must!
@@PearlAcoustics Well, whatever makes a person most happy should be the choice for that person when it comes to solid-state vs. tube. One factor is also what sort of music you listen to. I'm not against people adding some distortion or EQ. In fact, I often calibrate with EQ carefully to fix issues with room acoustics, especially in the bass, and a slight boost in the high treble above 12kHz to compensate for my hearing aging. The loss in high treble compensated with EQ is sort of quite similar to the loss of eye focus when watching TV having to use glasses to enjoy the full resolution.
@@ThinkingBetter I would argue to that comparison to TV. We easy see lack of details walking in street or in TV which is annoying when we cannot read small writing. In listening in nature we experience everything correct ( except much loss of hearing) only producers of gear force us to think that we need limits which are not playing role in listening. Just as TV producers who say we need 8K or 18 K and with it we are getting slower refreshing, jumping movement of picture and faulty colors. Because more "K" is easy for them . Most people tend to believe in years of invention of tubes and transistors as proof of progress. Progress is newer. When it is obviously wrong then they try to push that they have "better ears". then those who are more satisfied with older. First even started to produce transistors emulation of bad tube amplifiers which make proof that it is bad. How about transistor's emulation of tubes in radio receivers? .What "ugly" would it present? My conclusion to audio discussion is that it would be valuable to understand Einstein's Relativity Theory up to the bottom before trying to understand audio. It would help to find the truth which is "nothing better done " .
After listening to so many different ways to understand db & volume this is by far the most understandable video i have watched.. keeping everybody happy is what music is all about..
Greetings, If a picture is worth a 1,000 words, imagine what a video can do? Fantastic demonstration. I have a 6.8 watt SET amplifier and it is more than enough power for my 10x14 foot computer den with 92dB sensitivity bookshelf speakers. Thanks for the wonderful demo! It proves me right. As an aside, your delivery is so friendly and laid back, I feel as those I am just sitting with an old friend having a great casual conversation over a cupper. I love all your videos, especially about your growing up loving sound. And I learn a lot along the way!
I learned more from this video and the comments below than I have from any other stereo-related video. Thanks for all the good information. I have an 35 year old JVC receiver with power meters that rarely go over 1 watt.
My Tannoy Cheviots - I've owned them since 1976, are driven by a Leak stereo 20. 10W per channel. I have never used any where a quarter of that. I've never felt the need to up grade or change. They deliver everything I need - I love the sound I get. Thanks for another excellent video. 👍
Hello, just bumped on this comment.I have a Stereo Leak 30 plus, it's rated 15W amp per channel, but with any of my speaker It's loud enough to make people run away.Not that is what I want, just wondering why I usually need to get it more then half volume to have some beef out of my speakers. Maybe it's because it's not a tube amp? Can you explain this? Thank you very much
Thank you for making this understandable to a layman such as myself. There's too much erroneous information out there on various sites and blogs and this clears things up quite nicely. I'm presently interested in a 87db monitor and have a very fast 70 watt integrated (GaN FET) so this may just work out nicely for me.
How refreshing to hear great advice. I had a sub for sale that had a 200W Class A/B plate amp and was hard to sell until I had a shoot out with a 1500W class D competitor...
New to channel. Really liked the explanation for home audio and how loud one watt is. Efficiency of amplifier as well. I’m a car audio guy that uses 20,000 times it in my car just for bass. Wow. I’ll be watching more
Good simple video proving how little power most people actually need. I got 87dB speakers just like in the video and I sit just over 2 meters from the speakers. Now, I do enjoy my Heavy Metal music quite loud but I calculated that even when blasting as loud as I can stand it, and much louder than what is safe to listen at, it wouldnt even use 20 watts, or a quarter of what my little Denon amplifier can output. Most of the time the amp is just idling.
Thanks! My point entirely! It’s the quality of the watts that matters most. Enjoy the music - even if it is heavy metal! 😉 as long as it stirs the soul it’s good!
I don't have the test equipment you have but I get what you are trying to drive at. When I put my woofer and tweeter in a bigger baffle similar to what you have if not close to your Sibelius baffle dimension, it played loudly with the same quality. When I removed the crossover and wired it directly and played even loudly and that was the time we have to tweak the inside of the baffle and that's where my fun is. Mind you, when I was getting to a similar sound quality using a bigger baffle compared to the mini-monitor baffle I started with, I just trusted my ears. A few of my friends who are into the same hobby agreed with me. I am not saying I did a better job. No. You are Sibelius and since there are no Sibelius in my country, Philippines, I did the next best thing which is improvised. Congratulations on your Pearl Acoustics and I will watch your other equally exciting videos. Thank you for sharing and I am learning as I go along watching you.
@@PearlAcoustics I have a Coral 12TX speakers with a sensitivity of 103dB owned by my olds and discovered it last year in our pile of 'To Go.' The Coral makes my solid state STR151A sound a bit like tube, a faux realization. This is where I compare the baffless 😉 I built using the two drivers from a mini monitor speakers. It also has several ports that I will experiment on soon made possible by my good carpenter. Again, your Sibelius is my dream 🔊 speakers. Thank you ☺️ for appreciating my narration.
I've been looking for a demonstration like this for long time. Now I get the picture of what 1 watt sounds like. I have to now question the need for 200 watt speakers. Thank you.
Dear Raymond, unless you have a massive room and want to play music very loud, you don’t ‘need’ 200W loudspeakers. But there is no connection with enjoyment. Ie (using a car analogy, having a 5 litre Aston Martin can be fun, even if you are only driving at normal speeds. Enjoy your music
Great explanation. Many years ago I picked up a Amp from an estate sale of a well known 60's Rocker in Seattle when he passed. It was a studio Phase Linear D-500 with 550 Watts RMS at 0.1 THD. I have never gotten it above 10 watts as there is no need. Really just 3 watts is enough for most LP's. Playing Chicago Transit Authority's California Purples it's stellar.
This is absolutely amazing and I had no idea....When I was a teenager I was very interested in car audio...with all the 500 watt 1000 watt amps all over the place and one day my father took me to a car audio store with him...It was an authorized "Kicker" dealer which is what my father was shopping for..In a really nice display they had their Amp selection and I noticed that many of them were labeled as "25 watt" or "40 watt" amplifiers and were priced fairly high..I asked the guy how could only "40 watts" be enough to do anything and he said "because they are real watts"...I never understood what he meant but now I guess this is what he meant...
Hi Gregory, Some manufacturers ‘cheat’ they talk about music power ie peak and not constant driven power or RMS. it can be a factor of 10 difference. Most OF THE hifi industry - go on RMS
@@PearlAcoustics So is it true that a higher efficiency speaker takes less power to drive it..but in turn the lower frequency ranges suffer? Just trying to make sure I understand it correctly...Or is it possible to have a sub woofer with a high db efficiency rating (90-92 db) that produces good clean low frequencies (25hz - 80hz) ?
@@justScrollin0627 yes it’s true that high efficiency speakers take less power to drive it but there is a trade off. My understanding is that low frequency doesn’t necessarily suffer. You just need a bigger size box/cabinet to produce your desired low frequency results. 87.5 db for a speaker isn’t high efficient. 90-92 is almost mid efficient to me. Anything above 92 is high efficient. What is a bit misleading about this vid is that low wattage Class A valve/tube amps work well with slightly more efficient speakers when playing “classical” music. While 87.5 db isn’t efficient this is more of a test as to how loud even 7 watts per channel can produce. The thing though is that doubling of wattage doesn’t equate to doubling of loudness. Not sure if the author made this clear or not. Perhaps he assumes most audiophiles know this. If one listens to bass heavy music then wattage from a reputable amp company starts to become much more important. There are always trade offs though. My listening presence is geared more towards hip hop pop rock jazz classical in that order. It’s perhaps this preference because my system is designed this way. I have Class A/B amps and cone type speakers with a subwoofer. I’m running 1,200 watts RMS of true clean power. 5.1 system. 200x5 plus 200w sub. My system does not sound as musical as this RUclips vids system.
I hope YOU enjoyed the demo, because I've been playing guitar in front of amps that loud or louder fir years and though it FEELS great to play through a cooking amp, it will certainly wear you out. It was a cool demo. I already knew the conclusion from practicing at home. Five watts will piss off the neighbors,much less eight or more. I attenuated of my amps at home, which are 14 and 15 watts respectively. Occasionally, when neighbors are gone I will plug in and play in wet'dry or duel mono/ stereo. It is DEVINE, but brutally loud.
@@PearlAcoustics Du you have dealers in switzerland where I can hear „the“ Sibelius? I like the idea and the style very much and the speaker would have a really good size for my needs and room...
Very interesting and educational video , I would never have believed it . Many years ago I used a David Berning 1 watt per channel vacuum tube amplifier used to drive a pair of Klipsh RF-7 speakers with dual 10 inches woofers in each speaker . A friend laughed at the idea I would use such flea power on such large speakers , five seconds into the first cut of a Pink Floyd selection he was speechless though he knew nothing of the high efficiency of this speaker it turned out this amplifier was a beautiful match with this particular Klipsh speaker .
The video is a bit misleading (probably not intentionally, but still worth pointing out). Firstly using a DVM to measure the power output. This will provide a reasonable estimate of the overall RMS power, but it ignores the peak power. If an amp can only provide 1.41 watts (peak value of the RMS power output), you'll get quite a bit of distortion and clipping even at low volumes. Due to the high peaks of music, the amplifiers RMS power rating (we assume that the music is still sinusoidal and not an actual impulse, which it almost always is) will be what determines when the amplifier goes into clipping, and the peak power output will be significantly higher than the average output recorded with a DVM. While its true that some amps can provide a bit more over short spans (dynamic headroom) due to the reservoir capacitors, this is not always the case, especially with class-D topologies. With those, 50 watts is 50 watts, period. The second is the frequency content of music. Even with a properly set up system to have a flat response music with lots of low frequency content will chew through a watt with very uninspiring results. For music with most of the audio power confined to the mid-bass and midrange region, you can get away with one watt. But hit any lows or music with a heavy bass line and forget it. You'll get distortion, or at least an unsatisfying experience. The last thing is that hearing is logarithmic. A doubling of the power will _not_ appear to be a doubling of sound amplitude. This is evident in dB based volume controls. If you put a oscilloscope on the amp output, you'll notice the output voltage climbing like crazy even though the volume appears to increase linearly. Each 3dB increment will require TWICE as much power. You don't need hundreds of watts for the domestic hi-fi environment, but at least 25W RMS/channel is needed unless you only listen to classical or at low volumes. To do the test properly, you would actually need an oscilloscope that can measure and log the peak-peak voltage, as well as some ability to measure (or at least knowledge of) the reactive impedance of the speaker at the same time. A 4-ohm speaker is NOT 4 ohms at audio frequencies. Its usually 5-7 Ohms, or higher, depending on the speaker and enclosure due to the back-EMF of the voice coil. The nominal impedance will lead you to overestimate the actual power output when just using voltage, sometimes dramatically. While this works in their favor, its still not right. Without these, the actual RMS output is essentially unknown. While its still a reasonable demonstration, people shouldn't get the impression that a very low power class-A amp will give good results.
"The second is the frequency content of music. Even with a properly set up system to have a flat response music with lots of low frequency content will chew through a watt with very uninspiring results." Nope. A woofer with an SPL of 87db will produce 87 db with 1 watt, just as a tweeter will. The reason you think woofers need more power is because you are probably using low efficiency woofers.
@@SomeTechGuy666 human ears don't hear lower sounds as efficiently as they do midrange sounds. That coupled with the fact the woofers/subs are inherently less efficient due to design, are why low frequency sounds need more power.
In an obtuse way, you have hit on an important point. Sound source, frequency range and timbre have a massive impact on us, sometimes even more than the content! This is something I will be covering in a later video on speaker placement
I've noticed the very same results with my wife, she has very high efficiency and can be driven quite easily, with my comments, even with very little power! But seriously, when I was a kid, we used to take a cheap RadioShack watt meter and hook it up through the speakers of our various crappy systems and we were amazed at how little the amount of wattage was, even when loud.
I have a ‘low watt’ desk top set up. I have an amp switcher that allows me to run a Schiit Aegir (20 watts into 8 ohms) or the LTA MZ3 (1 watt) paired to Omega Super 3 High Output Speakers (97 db efficiency; 6 ohms impedance). It is amazing! Note: I love the design/decor of your room.
@@PearlAcoustics The LTA drives ‘em just fine; I have the Aegir in play primarily during the day for a more visceral response. I typically use the LTA MZ3 at night...as it has a soft/lush sound quality/nuance. I love having both options...but honestly...I’m stunned by what 1 quality watt can produce. I have the LTA MZ3 serving in full capacity as a amp/preamp/HP amp. So the Aegir is my primary amp in my desk top set up...I run the LTA MZ3 as an amp option. Either unit can drive the Omega’s beautifully. Note: I have a main rig as well which is comprised of a 200 watt into 8 ohms Krell Vanguard integrated amp paired with Salk Song3 Encore tower speakers. I fully understand what a larger system provides. Having a low watt desk top system is simply a different (not necessarily better) experience (more intimate). I listen to the desk top rig daily as opposed to the main rig (preference).
I’m thinking of buying the Schiit Aegir but not sure how good it will work with my speakers - AudioVector QR1. I’m a complete rookie when it comes to this. Any advice is appreciated and highly sought after. The QR1 are 4 Ohms, 45-45 frequency response, gold leaf upper limit (not sure what that is) 195 kHz and a 150 W power Handling.
@@skitstorm5634 I won’t pretend to know the answer. I’ve since sold off the Omegas and have the Spendor Classic 4/5 in line….which are less efficient than the Omegas…but I prefer the sound quality of the Spendors…go figure? The speakers you’ve referenced sound power hungry on paper at 4 ohms. I dare not say 1 watt will work. Have you contacted the manufacturer for amp guidance? Ex. Amp power pairing requirements and recommendations?
The speaker sensitivity tells you how loud they will be at a given input power measured at a given distance. I this case 1W @ 1 meter will produce a SPL (Sound Pressure Level) of 87dB. To double the volume level (SPL) would required 3dB, or 90dB for this speaker and twice the input power, or 2W. 1W @ 1M == 87dB 2W @ 1M == 90dB 4W @ 1M == 93dB 8W @ 1M == 96dB 16W @ 1M == 99dB SPL falls off at a rate of 1/d^2, or 6dB at 2M. 1W @ 2M == 81dB so to get 99dB @ 2M with 87dB sensitivity speakers would take 64W of power. Of course all these numbers are based on a single speaker. Multiple speakers at the input power will create a louder soundstage. Just in case you were curious about the numbers. :-)
Completly right, I was just thinking write this to. Becaus e he said 8 w would be enough for 100 dB , but so isn't the case. Then the speaker isn't static 4 or 8 Ohm, that very to. And some speaker's are very hard to drive. For that you maybe need some umph in the Amp.
@@henrikl1394 thanks for your input. However, if you noticed, I had two speakers driving into the room (left and right channel) and that gives an extra 3db. Thus: 90db at 1 watt per channel and therefore 99db at 8 Watts. The sound pressure level meter recorded over 100 dB in my seating position, and that’s all that counts at the end of the day? I only wanted to show how loud 1 watt per channel can be in a domestic situation. I hope I achieved that. In practice I like to use amplifiers of at least 16w per channel.
87db is 1m from a single speaker at 1W of power with 1Khz sinewave, not music and it makes signifficant difference. The fact that host is talking all the time makes db meter measurements invalid. At 1.6V we see +6db on the meter, which is 96db I imagine 2-3meters from the source, so something is clearly not right.
@@asdfghjkl1755 thanks for your input. I noticed that too and later discovered that in editing the sound pressure level meter image is not in sync with the the stereo mic soundtrack. This is noticeable at the end when the needle is no longer moving. But the measurements are correct in themselves
Thank you for the enlightenment! Because after watching quite a few videos of content providers demonstrating their speakers, i was always under the illusion that when one is watching/listening on RUclips, one is rarely unable to tell the difference between a average speaker and great speaker! The funny thing is you wasn't even demonstrating just how good you're beautiful sounding Sibelius are! Maybe it was the placement of those professional-looking mics, I really don't know, I'm new to this but what I do know is those speakers sound wonderful!!! Thank you changing my perception of just how good speakers are able to sound even going through RUclips. compression
Because "old good" recordings assume you have to have enough in a reserve to play all peaks. Because typically 200W amplifier will have less distortions at 1W than a 10W amplifier, as well as 200W speaker comparing to 10W one. Because 200W woofers are simply bigger than 10W, and so have massive, volume, alive bass.
@@sc0orWell distortion is not all equal. Our brain likes second order harmonics better than odd order harmonics so a 10W tube amp at 1% distortion may still be producing a pleasant sound to our ears. A have an 8W 300B amp at home (and 91db speakers) that sounds terrific ..on violins, acoustic guitar, piano, vocals you can play loud. And for moderate volumes it sounds great for anything you throw at it. But as expected it looses breath playing bass heavy material loud. Put Mother on from Pink Floyds The Wall and it will play loud until at 2:50 where the drums kick in. Lower the volume to moderate listening levels and those 8 flea watts deliver.
You know..i was just listening to one of my most favorite pieces of music. A fresh 2020 BBC recording of Vaughan Williams. A lark ascending. At one point it's only the strat & a triangle. I was just thinking how splendid your loudspeakers would resolve this. Cheers as always!!! 😀
Hi Jack. It’s very true… often big complex pieces can impress but, I, like you am mostly blown away by the simplest of moments. Getting that right in both the recording and the playback is so critical. But let’s not forget the musicians - these moments are so dammed difficult to pull off in a convincing way
I connected my Pass DIY Class A, 8 watt amp, to my 98db speakers and it showed me quite quickly just how little power my speakers need. Half volume was enough to run people who don't like loud music out of the house and at 87db at my MLP barely had the volume cracked. The 25W Pass diy F5, is an absolute monster in that role. I think the giant caps in the power supply must help as well.
Great video. & very informative. I understand that these speakers can handle 70w peak. That's loud!! I listen to a 50/50 split of classical & 70s british progressive rock w/ a smattering of late 50s jazz. I listen at low to medium volume. In fact I have vivaldis 4 seasons so it was easy to imagine these in my listening room. Not a stretch at all. I'm such a big fan of single driver loudspeakers. The simplicity of em. Cheers from California
Let me tell you...to spend an afternoon in your listening room would be a special treat for sure. W/ special music of course. Fanny mendelssohn piano trio yes tales of topographic oceans. Bruckners 8th. Camel mirage beethoven 9th alan parsons i robot bartok music for strings percussion & Celeste & pink floyd dark side of the moon. What a treat!!! 😀
Music is about dynamics and timing, silences and emotions included. :) Its also about micro-dynamics and harmonics and providing access to a moment in time. Its not just about watts or simply spl ratings alone (although well applied science is key to getting "musical great sound" in any playback setup and its indeed quite complex). . . From my experience, power ratings are not that important if all is is not well designed. I have done systems that worked very well with relatively low power amps and modest spl ratings and also experimented with 3 to 10 kilowatts per channel (using active x-overs and multi amp & driver setups) with superb results. . . Having said this, even if one could run into rabbit hole about the details and argument presented here, fact is i liked this video for placing a relative perspective on what one can expect with even average spl rated loudspeakers in a nice listening environment with a dynamic amp. Nice. :)
@@PearlAcoustics -- I suspect we would have enjoyed a good conversation or two when I was working in Audio (a lifetime ago) between some great music listening sessions. Cheers! (& keep the good work) :)
Sounds Great ! Your the Man ! Nice speakers and amp ! I run very efficient speakers I think 101 db Klipsch k- Horns up front and Klipsch Belle’s in Back . I run A&B speakers because the sound of them blended is wonderful. The room is filled with music just wonderful.
I want to ask how do I record a coinbent sound inside my home? My guess is -40 dB!!! With the trivial apps I got 26 dB but it's not quite there. Let me know and very urgent for me. Thank you very much.
@@PearlAcoustics I meant, that my neighbor put soundproof panels on their house walls and partition wall, of poor quality because when they talk I hear them very distant but I understand perfectly what they are saying and they talk about me but I do not understand why, since we never talk with them (but what a struggle). :) I thought to find a solution to be able to record during the night hours inside my home ........ . But I tried but the recording does not come and I immediately thought of an ultrasonic microphone suppressor ... .
Often single chip very low power mini amps like LM386, LM380, TDA2822 are built with minimum parts of low quality, but if you use high quality capacitors and resistors with proper circuit layout, powered by clean DC power source like 12v battery, and matched with highly efficient speakers, they sound quite fine while using less than 1w of DC power(for example 12v 70ma). Of course they don't have the true HIFI specs, but I personally checked that they can easily produce average of 75~77db undistorted sound with one bookshelf speaker(8 ohm 2 way 5 inch 90db SPL) one meter away, while playing ordinary random musics, using less than 1w of DC power. Usually if there is a problem it's the low output music source and if you use a low noise device with headphone output and volume control it's fine.
Audioscript in the Netherlands had an add way back 1975, stating, 1 Watt output all night, and you won't sleep one minute. In 1993, I bought the Audio Innovation First 2 x 7 Watt, in to a 90DB speaker, never got passed 12 O Clock on the Volume control.
Excellent video! I have a pair of Spendor SP2/3E speakers with an efficiency of 88dB and a lovely vintage Revox A740 amp, rated at 100 watts per channel. Apart from excellent sound, the best feature of the amp is a pair of very accurate power meters. My normal listening range is 1 to 5 watts. If it gets to 10 watts, I'm getting up and turning the volume down! Do I need 100 watts per channel? Clearly not. But as Harley explains the key feature of a great amplifer is the ability to respond to driver loads quickly and accurately. The Revox weighs 20kg/44 lbs, has a 1000 watt transformer and 4 15,000 mf electrolytic capacitors the size of beer cans. Checks all the boxes for me! Thank you Harley!
In just the right set-up, in a normal room, about 6 feet from the speakers, with 5W you should get around 95 dB peaks. That's plenty loud. For me, at least. But, in a larger room, further away from the speakers, just like that you need 50W. Because that's how things work. And if, for some reason, you so desire to peak above those 95 dB, let's say 10 more, have a wild guess. You need 500W. Level would be pretty loud. But there is another problem, especially with poor solid state amps. If the rated power would be 50 and gets driven at 50, there will be some sort of compression that makes music sound worse and worse (unless you have a very good amp, you need extra power available, even if not used). As someone tested this quite a bit, that's when the amplifier is also most likely to damage the speakers. Thus, there are some scenarios that would explain the need for power in a very honest way.
Great video, I’m trying to measure my amplifier. I wonder where to put my multi meter. Is it AC volts or DC volts. They don’t give the same values. DC is lower. Please help.
Hi, you need to set it on AC. However, a volt meter can only give an indication because its reaction times are way slower than the musical impulses it receives. I did it this way in my video to make a general point about the perception of power. I hope that helps?
Great illustration! That said, I have 1200 watt monoblocks on my stereo, lol. I have seen about 120 watt peaks on the meters though, about 60 watts RMS and that's about all my ears want to take in the room. The speaker is a 87.7 db sensitivity Revel Ultima Studio 2. I will say the power demands increase hugely with the speaker's ability to produce deep bass. Also, to increase the volume 3db, you have to double the power, so it happens fast. The dynamics are actually audibly better than with the 600 watt monoblocks even though I'm only using 60 watts or less most of the time.
I love this video. My home theater consists of 7 Klipsch speakers with sensitivity ratings of nearly 100dB 1w/1m. I know my receiver is barely idling even at very high volumes.
@@PearlAcoustics I actually used an AA battery powered Sonic Impact T-amp for quite a while when I had a 2 channel setup with Klipsch forte II speakers. People who listened to it couldn’t believe that a few AA batteries could make them play so loud and clear!
Klipsch speakers are known for being highly efficient (just like other horn speakers); I own three pairs and the largest ones (RP-280F) can deliver 98dB@1watt, they sound HUGE!!
@@mcplutt Well done, the Cayin amp is more than enough for those highly efficient speakers. I have mine paired with a PrimaLuna EVO400 powermap. The soundstage is huge and the acoustic image is beautiful.
GREAT VIDEO. Very interesting topic. I wonder how much louder it would have been if you had your mic volume adjusted properly. Probably would have been too loud to listen to.
Good video for those who bash 3-8 w tube amps as underpowered. Add in that vintage speakers usually had 93-95 db sensitivity. 95 db is loud! For those who address bass: usually nothing under 40 hz on records, and definitly not under 40 hz on a rock concert. Why? Well, mainly because of feedback. So: has tech moved forward at all?
I just noticed about real watt output from amp to speaker the other day because I was curious and bought a multimeter, I was so surprised that my amp was only outputting like 0.2 watt with the usual volume I'm comfortable with, but my amp drew like 4 watt of power out of wall socket, I bought a watt meter for that. So watt to speaker is not the same as watt from the wall socket. And even 0.2 watt is quite loud.
Most audiophiles never built or heard of a LM386 one chip 1w bread board(or strip board) amplifier. A decent LM386n-4 amplifier circuit + 9v battery(or 9~12v clean DC power source) + efficient 90+ SPL bookshelf speaker combination will blow your mind. If you measure the DC current with DC current meter while playing music, it rarely goes near 1w.
I remember that back in them days,,,,, I had an Audio Innovations Series 500 with a max output of 10 watts and a pair of Horning A1 Concrete horns with a Lowther P6c as far as i remember. It was so easy driven that the attenuator should barely be moved before it was extremely loud. Plus it was so dynamic that it was scary. I should have kept those speakers but at that time i moved a lot and with two loudspeakers at 150 kg each and a size of a big suitcase 105 by 105 and 30 cm depth they just got to go.
I have Q Acoustics 3020i bookshelf speakers and a pioneer A-9(110wpc Class AB amplifier made in 1981.) It's a nice setup. Do not see a reason to upgrade the amplifier but, I might upgrade the speakers themselves.
I don't know if i'm wrong but low frequencies take more enegy than high frequencies and for each 3db step you have to double the power. So when listening to some nice rebassed music that has continous tones at 25-45 hz it takes a lot of energy. Most likly more than one watt when you want to feel the bass.
Yes indeed but only in a subjective way. ‘feeling the bass means power and high dB level - it’s just that you feel it more than hear it. BUT if your speakers have a flat frequency response then they produce as many db’s at low frequencies (for 1 watt) as they would at medium or high frequencies. Hoping that covers your concern?
how does the volume button work I got 80Watts PMA amp at 8ohm and run it on 20 percent with 92dB focals but 1 watt should be really loud so does the volume turner work exponetially and is the statement that for every 10dB increment the power needed is factor 10?
Hi, thanks for your question. The effect of the volume control varies from design to design. Logarithmic versus linear etc. I would not pay much attention. Perhaps the best exercise is to get a white noise source and measure with an oscilloscope or multi meter, to get an accurate result.
Very interesting video. If 8 watts is enough, and we don't need to go beyond that, can we say that an amplifier capable of delivering let's say 100 watts is better than one capable of delivering 10 watts ? What's the relationship between max power output of an amplifier and "quality" at partial load ?
Dear Alexis, that’s a very good question. There are so many variables. If you have loudspeakers with a very stable resistance curve, ie it never drops much below 8 ohms (this is a big over simplification) then the amplifier does not need to draw so much current and a low wattage amplifier can be fine. The late amplifier designer, Gary Morison once proved that an amplifier that can deliver continuously 25 watts RMS, (average) is more than enough to drive any domestic loudspeakers with a sensitivity of over 86db to deafening levels. He was always so frustrated by the implied need for more and more powerful amplifiers. For example, If you like to listen at low or moderate volume in a relatively small room, then what you need is an amplifier that works really well at low volume, that is able to reach its optimum working temperature at low output, so that it is performing right in the middle of its desired range. This is one reason why some ‘low powered’ amplifiers can out perform high powered amplifiers in domestic situations. Hoping this helps a little?
@@PearlAcoustics thank you, I understand and I agree with the idea of somewhat limited requirements in terms of watts in a domestic situation. I've once been told that a strong power supply is the key for stability in the widest dynamic range an amplifier can do. My own very unprofessional experience is going that way I must say and I've got used to measure the "quality" (it's a very generic term) of an amplifier by its weight.
@@adewouters indeed, the power supply is crucial. In the US Nelson Pass designs some very good amplifiers. In the UK, Colin Wonfor. But there are just so many! In the future, I believe class D will get better and better and then, everything changes.
I'm fairly new to high-end audio and have had a Decware SE84UFO2 on backorder for a while now. I've recently become pretty curious about the Sibelius! The Decware outputs 2.3 watts, which is concerning for 87 db sensitivity, but I rarely listen to anything at over 70 db loud, let alone something like 80 db. Would I really have enough power on tap for my needs here? Or do you think I'd be lacking a bit of control and not getting much out the speakers with this amp? I'd also want to avoid damaging either of the components, of course
Hi, very sorry for the late reply. If you listen as quiet as you say, you won’t have any problem at all. It’s a fantastic combination in the right room. Feel free to reach out to us via our website and we’ll be happy to advise you. We have customers with the same combination and we loved it when we auditioned the zen
Bonjour, Bravo pour cette chaine youtube qui est très intéressante. Vous utilisez quoi comme amplificateur....amplificateur à tubes ? Hello, Bravo for this youtube channel which is very interesting. What amplifier do you use....tubes amplifier?
The demo was great, but the part about how fast an amplifier can deliver power @8:50 is false. If the amplifier has a flat frequency response up to 20kHz (which almost all do), then it is fast enough. Damping factor is different thing. It is a function of amplifiers output impedance. A high damping factor (low output impedance) is also not necessarily always a good thing, but that a different story.
l love vt25 sound so much. But I have only one pair of focal 1028BE 91db speaker. I ve wonder is the 1.5w per channel VT25 single ended tube amp can drive 91db Focal 1028BE speaker within 100 square feet area？
I am no expert, but if you have 1,5 watts of power you will get at least 91,5db at 1 meter! Whether that’s enough depends on so many factors. You, the room, it’s damping etc etc. You just need to try these things. If it doesn’t work for you, then you’ll find a solution and move on. Good luck and enjoy the music!
Hi this is normal. In the audio industry we work on a maximum level scale. So we measure sound on equipment as the maximum minus x number of db’s so full volume, less 35db etc. For CD Mastering we have to stay 6db under 0 for our maximum peak. I admit it’s a bit strange but that’s how it is. The Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 has a feature where it can go 12db over 0! I hope this makes sense?
Hi, that’s a very good question. Now I am not an expert but my colleague has informed me about the relationship between speed and damping factor. If an amplifier has a high damping factor it can stop and start the movement of a drive cone very quickly and give the impression of speed. Unfortunately though, not all amplifiers with relatively high damping are considered or sound ‘fast’. There are other factors involved too. it is also known that certain types of transistor tend to have properties that give the impression of speed. But so can the amplifiers’ ability to deliver high voltage quickly via discharging large amounts from its capacitor reservoirs, when necessary (and the time it takes to recharge them - think of a cameras flash gun and how long they take to recharge when you have pushed them to the limit). In general, class d switching amplifiers tend to have very dynamic / fast response times. Now please do not take my answer too literally as scientifically my explanation is not very well expressed. But I hope it helps a bit?
Would love to see the same test done using a sine wave instead of a dynamic track. I'd bet you would need a less "volume" to reach that 1w/2.75v. Testing car audio I know it's impossible to get clamped wattage rating using anything with any kind of quick frequency change and especially so with lower end multimeters.
Just what I've been wondering recently. I revisited hifi during this covid season due to having more time at home and started visiting Internet forums again. I see people raving about 200W or 500W icepower modules and how cheaply they can built an audiophile grade amp with them. Started wondering... Do we really need 200W? I had a 3.5W 2A3 amp for a couple of years and I don't think I pushed it even halfway. Anything more and I would have been kicked out of my neighbourhood. So do we need that much power or 30W amp with a hefty power supply would meet most of our needs? Thanks for this video... It clarified all my doubts
often budget or just plain hifi grad equipement is not that efficient icepower moduels Purifi 1ET400A and hypex also TPA3255 with the Texas Instrument Chipset all offer very low signal to noise ratio almost silent even on higher loads these DIY solutions outperform many expensive Class AB also in terms of Money/ Value since a TPA3255 balance amp board and digital switching power supply is had for around 150 USD I transitioned my self from pure clas A to a class D and i am blow away by the performance
Hi, thanks for your question. Unfortunately it’s not as straightforward as that, it really depends on the entire architecture. For example, class A tube amplifiers use output transformers etc. I have heard solid state amplifiers with massive capacitor banks that sound ‘dull’ for want of a better word. If it were purely a question capacitance, everyone would design their amplifiers the same way. In recent years, the subject of ‘capacitance’ has become a bit of a red herring, I am afraid
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you Mr. Lovegrove for explanation. You thing, according to this video, that max SPL from a speaker of 94,3dB will be sufficient for a normal european livingroom? Also using MarkAudio driver, which have limited power handling
Interesting demo, even if one may quibble about technicalities. Two questions: - What is the typical relationship of volume level set on amp to proportion/% of power used? I have a 120 W/channel amp, usually turn knob to about level 35/100 for less than speaking volume (~50-60 dB) in room with 88 db efficiency speakers. Knob turn would suggest ~35/120 W =~40 W going to speakers, but your demo suggest more like 0.1-0.2 W. Hmmm. - Linearity of amplification was recently discussed by Ask Paul, who argues that strict linearity only exists in about bottom 10% of amp range. Does that linearity range differ with amplifier type (A, A/B, D)? That would explain why Nelson Pass First Watt amps go at max to 30 W (class A if I recall correctly), but your class D mono blocks have 600 W of potential power.
A volume control is usually scaled more on perceived loudness than power. Usually at around 5/10, the amplifier is 10dB below maximum - "half volume" is only about 10% power. At "35% volume" you will be using 3.6 watts out of 120, but the input gain is also important, as is the scale on your volume control for instance half the clicks on a scale could be 20dB down, and if the device uses the decibel scale, it could be a tiny fraction of maximum. If the input gain is higher, it could be more power, but the amp might clip at just over mid-way, or it could not reach maximum power at full volume if the input source is low. Also music doesn't stay at its maximum level all the time. Only the loudest part of a song will use the amplifier's full power. This explains why small speakers can handle amps with surprisingly high power ratings, because the speaker isn't subject to a continuous tone. On average, only 10-25% of the amplifier's maximum power stresses the speakers at maximum "clean" volume.
Obviously, I would say ‘not’ but maybe read some of our customer and professional reviews, for a more balanced answer. In any case think of them as a microphone in reverse. Microphones have no problem covering the whole acoustic range without being lean or strained.
Just look how big those tubes are. I have an 89db/w fostex speakers here hooked to a 22kg Yamaha ss integrated rated at 130w rms into 8ohms that takes in 600w of input power and a 98db pro jbl speakers powered by a 1kw class D amp. The Yammies have beefier bass and meatier mids than the larger speakers and I believe it's because of the toshiba output drive transistors and the two very large filter caps in it that makes the whole class ab much preferable to audio than class d for low levels. But the pro speakers of course would destroy any of these puny hifi speakers in regards to pure sound pressure level. I practically listen only to two genres at a time, old classical music recordings and 70's rock. JBL for the former and Fostex for the latter. No matter how good hifi is, pro audio beats it flat out in dynamics.
@@automachinehead I can't quite understand what you're trying to say. Dynamics and SPL aren't the same thing, and whilst of course a serious and expensive pro-audio setup would destroy any HiFi setup in terms of shear volume, I wouldn't necessarily claim the same regarding sound quality. Pro speakers and amps can sound very good, but that means you need to buy expensive equipment to achieve the same sound quality of something that you could have with much cheaper HiFi components. I'm not talking about records and tube amplifiers either, those aren't for "pure" sound quality.
@@ilpatongi I mean for now a have a LG XBOOM stereo thing. But sometime in march I'm getting like a Sony DH something receiver, 3000w rockville amp, (2) RSG12s from rockville, and the RBG10 sub. plus all the necessary wires and stuff.
likely one of the most useful and easy to understand videos on this topic ever made. well done.
Thank you!
@@PearlAcoustics An underpowered tube amp doing soft clipping at the peaks is by design, in my opinion, much inferior to a well-built transistor amp that can keep the signal shape intact at the peaks. But, if someone really likes having musical distortion added, then tubes can do the job. Any notion that adding a tube stage makes the sound more loyal to the master signal is bogus and a DSP can easily do what a tube can do in terms of incremental distortion effects (incl. do it better) for those wanting such sound.
@@ThinkingBetter I am absolutely in line with you here. However, sometimes scientifically ‘better’ does not sound so pleasing. It’s a very emotive area where I dare not intrude. As I say in my video. On a cold winters night with a glass of wine and the warm glow of two, very high quality tube amplifiers not running anywhere near their max - life is just perfect. But in the summer when I need to analyse exactly what is happening in a mix. Or just hear it ‘as it was’ - a top quality transistor amplifier is a must!
@@PearlAcoustics Well, whatever makes a person most happy should be the choice for that person when it comes to solid-state vs. tube. One factor is also what sort of music you listen to. I'm not against people adding some distortion or EQ. In fact, I often calibrate with EQ carefully to fix issues with room acoustics, especially in the bass, and a slight boost in the high treble above 12kHz to compensate for my hearing aging. The loss in high treble compensated with EQ is sort of quite similar to the loss of eye focus when watching TV having to use glasses to enjoy the full resolution.
@@ThinkingBetter I would argue to that comparison to TV. We easy see lack of details walking in street or in TV which is annoying when we cannot read small writing. In listening in nature we experience everything correct ( except much loss of hearing) only producers of gear force us to think that we need limits which are not playing role in listening. Just as TV producers who say we need 8K or 18 K and with it we are getting slower refreshing, jumping movement of picture and faulty colors. Because more "K" is easy for them . Most people tend to believe in years of invention of tubes and transistors as proof of progress. Progress is newer. When it is obviously wrong then they try to push that they have "better ears". then those who are more satisfied with older. First even started to produce transistors emulation of bad tube amplifiers which make proof that it is bad. How about transistor's emulation of tubes in radio receivers? .What "ugly" would it present?
My conclusion to audio discussion is that it would be valuable to understand Einstein's Relativity Theory up to the bottom before trying to understand audio. It would help to find the truth which is "nothing better done " .
After listening to so many different ways to understand db & volume this is by far the most understandable video i have watched.. keeping everybody happy is what music is all about..
Thanks! Totally agree 😉
The best explanation I have seen on how power output is related to volume, many thanks.
You’re welcome Nick
Greetings,
If a picture is worth a 1,000 words, imagine what a video can do?
Fantastic demonstration. I have a 6.8 watt SET amplifier and it is more than enough power for my 10x14 foot computer den with 92dB sensitivity bookshelf speakers. Thanks for the wonderful demo! It proves me right.
As an aside, your delivery is so friendly and laid back, I feel as those I am just sitting with an old friend having a great casual conversation over a cupper. I love all your videos, especially about your growing up loving sound.
And I learn a lot along the way!
Thank you Steve, very kind. There’s more on the way in 2021! Take care. Harley
I learned more from this video and the comments below than I have from any other stereo-related video. Thanks for all the good information. I have an 35 year old JVC receiver with power meters that rarely go over 1 watt.
My Tannoy Cheviots - I've owned them since 1976, are driven by a Leak stereo 20. 10W per channel. I have never used any where a quarter of that. I've never felt the need to up grade or change. They deliver everything I need - I love the sound I get. Thanks for another excellent video. 👍
Thanks for your kind appreciation Chris. Enjoy the Cheviots!
Hello, just bumped on this comment.I have a Stereo Leak 30 plus, it's rated 15W amp per channel, but with any of my speaker It's loud enough to make people run away.Not that is what I want, just wondering why I usually need to get it more then half volume to have some beef out of my speakers. Maybe it's because it's not a tube amp? Can you explain this? Thank you very much
Finally one the best and honest explanations of how these parameters all work together. Great video!
Thank you for making this understandable to a layman such as myself. There's too much erroneous information out there on various sites and blogs and this clears things up quite nicely. I'm presently interested in a 87db monitor and have a very fast 70 watt integrated (GaN FET) so this may just work out nicely for me.
Thank you very kind.
Yes! I've been wanting this for a long time. Very well done. Thank you!
Thanks
Now that is one capital video! Well done, Sir. Thanks
Thank you, very kind!
How refreshing to hear great advice. I had a sub for sale that had a 200W Class A/B plate amp and was hard to sell until I had a shoot out with a 1500W class D competitor...
Thanks! You’re very welcome!
That was a lot of information put so simply... I love it!
New to channel. Really liked the explanation for home audio and how loud one watt is. Efficiency of amplifier as well. I’m a car audio guy that uses 20,000 times it in my car just for bass. Wow. I’ll be watching more
Thank you
Good simple video proving how little power most people actually need.
I got 87dB speakers just like in the video and I sit just over 2 meters from the speakers.
Now, I do enjoy my Heavy Metal music quite loud but I calculated that even when blasting as loud as I can stand it, and much louder than what is safe to listen at, it wouldnt even use 20 watts, or a quarter of what my little Denon amplifier can output.
Most of the time the amp is just idling.
Thanks! My point entirely! It’s the quality of the watts that matters most. Enjoy the music - even if it is heavy metal! 😉 as long as it stirs the soul it’s good!
I don't have the test equipment you have but I get what you are trying to drive at. When I put my woofer and tweeter in a bigger baffle similar to what you have if not close to your Sibelius baffle dimension, it played loudly with the same quality. When I removed the crossover and wired it directly and played even loudly and that was the time we have to tweak the inside of the baffle and that's where my fun is. Mind you, when I was getting to a similar sound quality using a bigger baffle compared to the mini-monitor baffle I started with, I just trusted my ears. A few of my friends who are into the same hobby agreed with me. I am not saying I did a better job. No. You are Sibelius and since there are no Sibelius in my country, Philippines, I did the next best thing which is improvised. Congratulations on your Pearl Acoustics and I will watch your other equally exciting videos. Thank you for sharing and I am learning as I go along watching you.
Interesting thank you 🙏
@@PearlAcoustics I have a Coral 12TX speakers with a sensitivity of 103dB owned by my olds and discovered it last year in our pile of 'To Go.' The Coral makes my solid state STR151A sound a bit like tube, a faux realization. This is where I compare the baffless 😉 I built using the two drivers from a mini monitor speakers. It also has several ports that I will experiment on soon made possible by my good carpenter. Again, your Sibelius is my dream 🔊 speakers. Thank you ☺️ for appreciating my narration.
@@joeysarmiento1925 hey Joey, thanks for your comment - what a discovery! Enjoy the music, and who knows? Maybe one day you’ll own a pair!
I've been looking for a demonstration like this for long time. Now I get the picture of what 1 watt sounds like. I have to now question the need for 200 watt speakers. Thank you.
Dear Raymond, unless you have a massive room and want to play music very loud, you don’t ‘need’ 200W loudspeakers. But there is no connection with enjoyment. Ie (using a car analogy, having a 5 litre Aston Martin can be fun, even if you are only driving at normal speeds. Enjoy your music
bear in mind that it is 1 watt avarage, while sinus with bas peak is higher
Surprising demonstration, I was not expecting that much SPL !
Great explanation.
Many years ago I picked up a Amp from an estate sale of a well known 60's Rocker in Seattle when he passed. It was a studio Phase Linear D-500 with 550 Watts RMS at 0.1 THD. I have never gotten it above 10 watts as there is no need. Really just 3 watts is enough for most LP's. Playing Chicago Transit Authority's California Purples it's stellar.
Nice story, thanks for sharing
I really enjoy Harley's audio symposiums-- it would be fun to meet him as well.
Thank you. The best way to meet him is at a European HiFi show, or by appointment in Belgium
This is absolutely amazing and I had no idea....When I was a teenager I was very interested in car audio...with all the 500 watt 1000 watt amps all over the place and one day my father took me to a car audio store with him...It was an authorized "Kicker" dealer which is what my father was shopping for..In a really nice display they had their Amp selection and I noticed that many of them were labeled as "25 watt" or "40 watt" amplifiers and were priced fairly high..I asked the guy how could only "40 watts" be enough to do anything and he said "because they are real watts"...I never understood what he meant but now I guess this is what he meant...
Hi Gregory,
Some manufacturers ‘cheat’ they talk about music power ie peak and not constant driven power or RMS. it can be a factor of 10 difference. Most OF THE hifi industry - go on RMS
@@PearlAcoustics So is it true that a higher efficiency speaker takes less power to drive it..but in turn the lower frequency ranges suffer? Just trying to make sure I understand it correctly...Or is it possible to have a sub woofer with a high db efficiency rating (90-92 db) that produces good clean low frequencies (25hz - 80hz) ?
@@justScrollin0627 yes it’s true that high efficiency speakers take less power to drive it but there is a trade off.
My understanding is that low frequency doesn’t necessarily suffer. You just need a bigger size box/cabinet to produce your desired low frequency results.
87.5 db for a speaker isn’t high efficient.
90-92 is almost mid efficient to me.
Anything above 92 is high efficient.
What is a bit misleading about this vid is that low wattage Class A valve/tube amps work well with slightly more efficient speakers when playing “classical” music.
While 87.5 db isn’t efficient this is more of a test as to how loud even 7 watts per channel can produce.
The thing though is that doubling of wattage doesn’t equate to doubling of loudness. Not sure if the author made this clear or not. Perhaps he assumes most audiophiles know this.
If one listens to bass heavy music then wattage from a reputable amp company starts to become much more important.
There are always trade offs though.
My listening presence is geared more towards hip hop pop rock jazz classical in that order. It’s perhaps this preference because my system is designed this way. I have Class A/B amps and cone type speakers with a subwoofer.
I’m running 1,200 watts RMS of true clean power. 5.1 system. 200x5 plus 200w sub.
My system does not sound as musical as this RUclips vids system.
I hope YOU enjoyed the demo, because I've been playing guitar in front of amps that loud or louder fir years and though it FEELS great to play through a cooking amp, it will certainly wear you out. It was a cool demo. I already knew the conclusion from practicing at home. Five watts will piss off the neighbors,much less eight or more. I attenuated of my amps at home, which are 14 and 15 watts respectively. Occasionally, when neighbors are gone I will plug in and play in wet'dry or duel mono/ stereo. It is DEVINE, but brutally loud.
😉 indeed, I had a lot of fun.
Thank you for the demo and all the other infos in the other videos. It‘s helpful for me to buy the right new stuff....
You’re very welcome!
@@PearlAcoustics Du you have dealers in switzerland where I can hear „the“ Sibelius? I like the idea and the style very much and the speaker would have a really good size for my needs and room...
@@gerrit555 thanks fir your kind words. can you contact us via our website and we will help you from there... PearlAcoustics.com thanks!
Very interesting and educational video , I would never have believed it . Many years ago I used a David Berning 1 watt per channel vacuum tube amplifier used to drive a pair of Klipsh RF-7 speakers with dual 10 inches woofers in each speaker .
A friend laughed at the idea I would use such flea power on such large speakers , five seconds into the first cut of a Pink Floyd selection he was speechless though he knew nothing of the high efficiency of this speaker it turned out this amplifier was a beautiful match with this particular Klipsh speaker .
The video is a bit misleading (probably not intentionally, but still worth pointing out). Firstly using a DVM to measure the power output. This will provide a reasonable estimate of the overall RMS power, but it ignores the peak power. If an amp can only provide 1.41 watts (peak value of the RMS power output), you'll get quite a bit of distortion and clipping even at low volumes. Due to the high peaks of music, the amplifiers RMS power rating (we assume that the music is still sinusoidal and not an actual impulse, which it almost always is) will be what determines when the amplifier goes into clipping, and the peak power output will be significantly higher than the average output recorded with a DVM. While its true that some amps can provide a bit more over short spans (dynamic headroom) due to the reservoir capacitors, this is not always the case, especially with class-D topologies. With those, 50 watts is 50 watts, period. The second is the frequency content of music. Even with a properly set up system to have a flat response music with lots of low frequency content will chew through a watt with very uninspiring results. For music with most of the audio power confined to the mid-bass and midrange region, you can get away with one watt. But hit any lows or music with a heavy bass line and forget it. You'll get distortion, or at least an unsatisfying experience. The last thing is that hearing is logarithmic. A doubling of the power will _not_ appear to be a doubling of sound amplitude. This is evident in dB based volume controls. If you put a oscilloscope on the amp output, you'll notice the output voltage climbing like crazy even though the volume appears to increase linearly. Each 3dB increment will require TWICE as much power. You don't need hundreds of watts for the domestic hi-fi environment, but at least 25W RMS/channel is needed unless you only listen to classical or at low volumes. To do the test properly, you would actually need an oscilloscope that can measure and log the peak-peak voltage, as well as some ability to measure (or at least knowledge of) the reactive impedance of the speaker at the same time. A 4-ohm speaker is NOT 4 ohms at audio frequencies. Its usually 5-7 Ohms, or higher, depending on the speaker and enclosure due to the back-EMF of the voice coil. The nominal impedance will lead you to overestimate the actual power output when just using voltage, sometimes dramatically. While this works in their favor, its still not right. Without these, the actual RMS output is essentially unknown. While its still a reasonable demonstration, people shouldn't get the impression that a very low power class-A amp will give good results.
Yeah, sound output lot more complicated than just "87db/1w/1 meter". and "I have a 9 watt amp so I'm good!" that's far from a complete formula.
Thx for the sane comment.
"The second is the frequency content of music. Even with a properly set up system to have a flat response music with lots of low frequency content will chew through a watt with very uninspiring results."
Nope. A woofer with an SPL of 87db will produce 87 db with 1 watt, just as a tweeter will. The reason you think woofers need more power is because you are probably using low efficiency woofers.
@@SomeTechGuy666 human ears don't hear lower sounds as efficiently as they do midrange sounds. That coupled with the fact the woofers/subs are inherently less efficient due to design, are why low frequency sounds need more power.
OP, you know just enough to sound ignorant to people who know more than you.
Your wall of text us full of inaccuracies and ignorance.
What an eye opener. Thanks. I no longer possess watt envy.
Great job. Thank you. However, I do believe my wife goes louder with even less wattage! Some room treatment, clearly, is in order.
In an obtuse way, you have hit on an important point. Sound source, frequency range and timbre have a massive impact on us, sometimes even more than the content! This is something I will be covering in a later video on speaker placement
LOL ... my wife too 👍
Mine works on "what"age. 😀😇😎
L🤭L
I've noticed the very same results with my wife, she has very high efficiency and can be driven quite easily, with my comments, even with very little power! But seriously, when I was a kid, we used to take a cheap RadioShack watt meter and hook it up through the speakers of our various crappy systems and we were amazed at how little the amount of wattage was, even when loud.
Wow! The sound really came through well on RUclips. Sounds fantastic.😊
Thanks!
I have a ‘low watt’ desk top set up. I have an amp switcher that allows me to run a Schiit Aegir (20 watts into 8 ohms) or the LTA MZ3 (1 watt) paired to Omega Super 3 High Output Speakers (97 db efficiency; 6 ohms impedance). It is amazing!
Note: I love the design/decor of your room.
Thanks! I suppose I can guess your LTA MZ3 drives your Omega’s just fine, or do you crave that ‘extra watt?’
@@PearlAcoustics The LTA drives ‘em just fine; I have the Aegir in play primarily during the day for a more visceral response. I typically use the LTA MZ3 at night...as it has a soft/lush sound quality/nuance. I love having both options...but honestly...I’m stunned by what 1 quality watt can produce. I have the LTA MZ3 serving in full capacity as a amp/preamp/HP amp. So the Aegir is my primary amp in my desk top set up...I run the LTA MZ3 as an amp option. Either unit can drive the Omega’s beautifully.
Note: I have a main rig as well which is comprised of a 200 watt into 8 ohms Krell Vanguard integrated amp paired with Salk Song3 Encore tower speakers. I fully understand what a larger system provides. Having a low watt desk top system is simply a different (not necessarily better) experience (more intimate). I listen to the desk top rig daily as opposed to the main rig (preference).
I’m thinking of buying the Schiit Aegir but not sure how good it will work with my speakers - AudioVector QR1. I’m a complete rookie when it comes to this. Any advice is appreciated and highly sought after. The QR1 are 4 Ohms, 45-45 frequency response, gold leaf upper limit (not sure what that is) 195 kHz and a 150 W power Handling.
@@skitstorm5634 I won’t pretend to know the answer. I’ve since sold off the Omegas and have the Spendor Classic 4/5 in line….which are less efficient than the Omegas…but I prefer the sound quality of the Spendors…go figure? The speakers you’ve referenced sound power hungry on paper at 4 ohms. I dare not say 1 watt will work. Have you contacted the manufacturer for amp guidance? Ex. Amp power pairing requirements and recommendations?
The speaker sensitivity tells you how loud they will be at a given input power measured at a given distance. I this case 1W @ 1 meter will produce a SPL (Sound Pressure Level) of 87dB. To double the volume level (SPL) would required 3dB, or 90dB for this speaker and twice the input power, or 2W.
1W @ 1M == 87dB
2W @ 1M == 90dB
4W @ 1M == 93dB
8W @ 1M == 96dB
16W @ 1M == 99dB
SPL falls off at a rate of 1/d^2, or 6dB at 2M.
1W @ 2M == 81dB
so to get 99dB @ 2M with 87dB sensitivity speakers would take 64W of power.
Of course all these numbers are based on a single speaker. Multiple speakers at the input power will create a louder soundstage.
Just in case you were curious about the numbers. :-)
Completly right, I was just thinking write this to. Becaus e he said 8 w would be enough for 100 dB , but so isn't the case. Then the speaker isn't static 4 or 8 Ohm, that very to. And some speaker's are very hard to drive. For that you maybe need some umph in the Amp.
@@henrikl1394 thanks for your input. However, if you noticed, I had two speakers driving into the room (left and right channel) and that gives an extra 3db. Thus: 90db at 1 watt per channel and therefore 99db at 8 Watts. The sound pressure level meter recorded over 100 dB in my seating position, and that’s all that counts at the end of the day? I only wanted to show how loud 1 watt per channel can be in a domestic situation. I hope I achieved that. In practice I like to use amplifiers of at least 16w per channel.
87db is 1m from a single speaker at 1W of power with 1Khz sinewave, not music and it makes signifficant difference. The fact that host is talking all the time makes db meter measurements invalid. At 1.6V we see +6db on the meter, which is 96db I imagine 2-3meters from the source, so something is clearly not right.
@@asdfghjkl1755 thanks for your input. I noticed that too and later discovered that in editing the sound pressure level meter image is not in sync with the the stereo mic soundtrack. This is noticeable at the end when the needle is no longer moving. But the measurements are correct in themselves
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you for response and congratulation on making valuable youtube content.
Thanks for this excellent demonstration
That is some great and eye opening information. Thanks for posting.
Thank you for the enlightenment! Because after watching quite a few videos of content providers demonstrating their speakers, i was always under the illusion that when one is watching/listening on RUclips, one is rarely unable to tell the difference between a average speaker and great speaker! The funny thing is you wasn't even demonstrating just how good you're beautiful sounding Sibelius are! Maybe it was the placement of those professional-looking mics, I really don't know, I'm new to this but what I do know is those speakers sound wonderful!!!
Thank you changing my perception of just how good speakers are able to sound even going through RUclips. compression
If the first watt isn't any good, why would you want 200 more of them?
Because "old good" recordings assume you have to have enough in a reserve to play all peaks. Because typically 200W amplifier will have less distortions at 1W than a 10W amplifier, as well as 200W speaker comparing to 10W one. Because 200W woofers are simply bigger than 10W, and so have massive, volume, alive bass.
@@sc0orWell distortion is not all equal. Our brain likes second order harmonics better than odd order harmonics so a 10W tube amp at 1% distortion may still be producing a pleasant sound to our ears. A have an 8W 300B amp at home (and 91db speakers) that sounds terrific ..on violins, acoustic guitar, piano, vocals you can play loud. And for moderate volumes it sounds great for anything you throw at it. But as expected it looses breath playing bass heavy material loud. Put Mother on from Pink Floyds The Wall and it will play loud until at 2:50 where the drums kick in. Lower the volume to moderate listening levels and those 8 flea watts deliver.
@@sc0or nope it depends on electronics
Wow that was very informative and helpful. Thanks so much and it sounded amazing.
Thank you. You’re very welcome
You know..i was just listening to one of my most favorite pieces of music. A fresh 2020 BBC recording of Vaughan Williams. A lark ascending. At one point it's only the strat & a triangle. I was just thinking how splendid your loudspeakers would resolve this. Cheers as always!!! 😀
Hi Jack. It’s very true… often big complex pieces can impress but, I, like you am mostly blown away by the simplest of moments. Getting that right in both the recording and the playback is so critical. But let’s not forget the musicians - these moments are so dammed difficult to pull off in a convincing way
Absolutely loved your explanation of the video especially Damping factor. Thank you 😁
What a superb video. Thank you
Thanks Diego, glad you enjoyed it.
It's about the 10th time I watch this video. As soon I'll be able to get a pair of Sibelius, they'll be mine!
That’s very kind. We look forward to making you a pair one day...
The speaker cabinet’s doing the work
I connected my Pass DIY Class A, 8 watt amp, to my 98db speakers and it showed me quite quickly just how little power my speakers need. Half volume was enough to run people who don't like loud music out of the house and at 87db at my MLP barely had the volume cracked. The 25W Pass diy F5, is an absolute monster in that role. I think the giant caps in the power supply must help as well.
I was thinking of buying 2 99db woofers and powering each with 250 watts but your comment might have changed my mind😂
Great video. & very informative. I understand that these speakers can handle 70w peak. That's loud!! I listen to a 50/50 split of classical & 70s british progressive rock w/ a smattering of late 50s jazz. I listen at low to medium volume. In fact I have vivaldis 4 seasons so it was easy to imagine these in my listening room. Not a stretch at all. I'm such a big fan of single driver loudspeakers. The simplicity of em. Cheers from California
Hi Jack. We have very similar tastes. Best wishes to California
Let me tell you...to spend an afternoon in your listening room would be a special treat for sure. W/ special music of course. Fanny mendelssohn piano trio yes tales of topographic oceans. Bruckners 8th. Camel mirage beethoven 9th alan parsons i robot bartok music for strings percussion & Celeste & pink floyd dark side of the moon. What a treat!!! 😀
@@jackbarnard1781 absolutely!!
Music is about dynamics and timing, silences and emotions included. :)
Its also about micro-dynamics and harmonics and providing access to a moment in time.
Its not just about watts or simply spl ratings alone (although well applied science is key to getting "musical great sound" in any playback setup and its indeed quite complex).
.
.
From my experience, power ratings are not that important if all is is not well designed.
I have done systems that worked very well with relatively low power amps and modest spl ratings and also experimented with
3 to 10 kilowatts per channel (using active x-overs and multi amp & driver setups) with superb results.
.
.
Having said this, even if one could run into rabbit hole about the details and argument presented here, fact is i liked this video for placing a relative perspective on what one can expect with even average spl rated loudspeakers in a nice listening environment with a dynamic amp. Nice. :)
Thank you!
@@PearlAcoustics --
I suspect we would have enjoyed a good conversation or two when I was working in Audio (a lifetime ago) between some great music listening sessions.
Cheers! (& keep the good work)
:)
@@pimianimavdo1523 I am sure we would have!
Ok my mind has been blown by this video.
Sounds Great ! Your the Man ! Nice speakers and amp ! I run very efficient speakers I think 101 db Klipsch k- Horns up front and Klipsch Belle’s in Back . I run A&B speakers because the sound of them blended is wonderful. The room is filled with music just wonderful.
So good to hear your passion coming through Fabien. Thanks for your kind words. Enjoy the music!
Great experiment, thank you for this ear opener!
You're very welcome Henk!
I want to ask how do I record a coinbent sound inside my home? My guess is -40 dB!!! With the trivial apps I got 26 dB but it's not quite there. Let me know and very urgent for me. Thank you very much.
Sorry I do not understand your question. What do you mean by a ‘coinbent’ sound. All homes have a residue background noise of around 35db or more…
@@PearlAcoustics I meant, that my neighbor put soundproof panels on their house walls and partition wall, of poor quality because when they talk I hear them very distant but I understand perfectly what they are saying and they talk about me but I do not understand why, since we never talk with them (but what a struggle). :) I thought to find a solution to be able to record during the night hours inside my home ........ . But I tried but the recording does not come and I immediately thought of an ultrasonic microphone suppressor ... .
Often single chip very low power mini amps like LM386, LM380, TDA2822 are built with minimum parts of low quality, but if you use high quality capacitors and resistors with proper circuit layout, powered by clean DC power source like 12v battery, and matched with highly efficient speakers, they sound quite fine while using less than 1w of DC power(for example 12v 70ma).
Of course they don't have the true HIFI specs, but I personally checked that they can easily produce average of 75~77db undistorted sound with one bookshelf speaker(8 ohm 2 way 5 inch 90db SPL) one meter away, while playing ordinary random musics, using less than 1w of DC power.
Usually if there is a problem it's the low output music source and if you use a low noise device with headphone output and volume control it's fine.
Audioscript in the Netherlands had an add way back 1975, stating, 1 Watt output all night, and you won't sleep one minute. In 1993, I bought the Audio Innovation First 2 x 7 Watt, in to a 90DB speaker, never got passed 12 O Clock on the Volume control.
😀
Excellent video! I have a pair of Spendor SP2/3E speakers with an efficiency of 88dB and a lovely vintage Revox A740 amp, rated at 100 watts per channel. Apart from excellent sound, the best feature of the amp is a pair of very accurate power meters. My normal listening range is 1 to 5 watts. If it gets to 10 watts, I'm getting up and turning the volume down! Do I need 100 watts per channel? Clearly not. But as Harley explains the key feature of a great amplifer is the ability to respond to driver loads quickly and accurately. The Revox weighs 20kg/44 lbs, has a 1000 watt transformer and 4 15,000 mf electrolytic capacitors the size of beer cans. Checks all the boxes for me! Thank you Harley!
You’re very welcome! Enjoy the music!
In just the right set-up, in a normal room, about 6 feet from the speakers, with 5W you should get around 95 dB peaks. That's plenty loud. For me, at least.
But, in a larger room, further away from the speakers, just like that you need 50W. Because that's how things work. And if, for some reason, you so desire to peak above those 95 dB, let's say 10 more, have a wild guess. You need 500W. Level would be pretty loud.
But there is another problem, especially with poor solid state amps. If the rated power would be 50 and gets driven at 50, there will be some sort of compression that makes music sound worse and worse (unless you have a very good amp, you need extra power available, even if not used). As someone tested this quite a bit, that's when the amplifier is also most likely to damage the speakers. Thus, there are some scenarios that would explain the need for power in a very honest way.
Brilliant. Very well explained!
Thank you.
Great video, I’m trying to measure my amplifier. I wonder where to put my multi meter. Is it AC volts or DC volts. They don’t give the same values. DC is lower. Please help.
Hi, you need to set it on AC. However, a volt meter can only give an indication because its reaction times are way slower than the musical impulses it receives. I did it this way in my video to make a general point about the perception of power. I hope that helps?
Great illustration! That said, I have 1200 watt monoblocks on my stereo, lol. I have seen about 120 watt peaks on the meters though, about 60 watts RMS and that's about all my ears want to take in the room. The speaker is a 87.7 db sensitivity Revel Ultima Studio 2. I will say the power demands increase hugely with the speaker's ability to produce deep bass. Also, to increase the volume 3db, you have to double the power, so it happens fast. The dynamics are actually audibly better than with the 600 watt monoblocks even though I'm only using 60 watts or less most of the time.
You should go with 2400watts, sounds even better x') ..
@@klm_ Then you need air conditioning running when playing music.
I love this video. My home theater consists of 7 Klipsch speakers with sensitivity ratings of nearly 100dB 1w/1m. I know my receiver is barely idling even at very high volumes.
Thanks. Indeed you could run your set up with a Decware Zen amplifier and still have power left over! 😉👍
@@PearlAcoustics I actually used an AA battery powered Sonic Impact T-amp for quite a while when I had a 2 channel setup with Klipsch forte II speakers. People who listened to it couldn’t believe that a few AA batteries could make them play so loud and clear!
@@marran8140 😀
Well done!
Nice music!
Thanks!
Great video and well explained.
Thank you!
@@PearlAcoustics You’re welcome!
OMG, I just learned a lot! Thanks :))
You’re very welcome!
Even though this isn't too scientific, it is just a rough indication. It is super cool to see that power doesn't matter. Sensitivity does.
Thank you.
This was so SO good! V informative and enjoyable :)
Nicely done video!
Bravo I barely use 2 watts on my Klipsch speakers nice video thank you Sir.
Klipsch speakers are known for being highly efficient (just like other horn speakers); I own three pairs and the largest ones (RP-280F) can deliver 98dB@1watt, they sound HUGE!!
@@davidsagarra9841 thanks bro good choice I love my Rp 8000 klipsch amazing sound clarity and details with any kind of music Kuddos
@@davidsagarra9841 I just bought a pair of RP-280F. I think they will be great on my Cayin tube amp.
@@mcplutt Well done, the Cayin amp is more than enough for those highly efficient speakers. I have mine paired with a PrimaLuna EVO400 powermap. The soundstage is huge and the acoustic image is beautiful.
This really awesome. Thank you for this.
Great demo
Thank you
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Great explanation, thanks!
Thanks!
Hey this is great 👍👍😎
I have a zillion questions but here is not the ideal place so let the research commence...subbed, BTW 👍
GREAT VIDEO. Very interesting topic. I wonder how much louder it would have been if you had your mic volume adjusted properly. Probably would have been too loud to listen to.
Thanks.
Good video for those who bash 3-8 w tube amps as underpowered. Add in that vintage speakers usually had 93-95 db sensitivity. 95 db is loud! For those who address bass: usually nothing under 40 hz on records, and definitly not under 40 hz on a rock concert. Why? Well, mainly because of feedback. So: has tech moved forward at all?
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion!
This video has the energy of a scientist's descent into madness
😀
That's a highly informative video, Thank you.
Seán
Thanks
I just noticed about real watt output from amp to speaker the other day because I was curious and bought a multimeter, I was so surprised that my amp was only outputting like 0.2 watt with the usual volume I'm comfortable with, but my amp drew like 4 watt of power out of wall socket, I bought a watt meter for that. So watt to speaker is not the same as watt from the wall socket. And even 0.2 watt is quite loud.
Are there objective measures for comparing this dynamic capabilities between different amplifiers?
God demonstration 😍👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you 🙏
Most audiophiles never built or heard of a LM386 one chip 1w bread board(or strip board) amplifier.
A decent LM386n-4 amplifier circuit + 9v battery(or 9~12v clean DC power source) + efficient 90+ SPL bookshelf speaker combination will blow your mind.
If you measure the DC current with DC current meter while playing music, it rarely goes near 1w.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing
I remember that back in them days,,,,, I had an Audio Innovations Series 500 with a max output of 10 watts and a pair of Horning A1 Concrete horns with a Lowther P6c as far as i remember. It was so easy driven that the attenuator should barely be moved before it was extremely loud. Plus it was so dynamic that it was scary.
I should have kept those speakers but at that time i moved a lot and with two loudspeakers at 150 kg each and a size of a big suitcase 105 by 105 and 30 cm depth they just got to go.
I have Q Acoustics 3020i bookshelf speakers and a pioneer A-9(110wpc Class AB amplifier made in 1981.) It's a nice setup. Do not see a reason to upgrade the amplifier but, I might upgrade the speakers themselves.
This is why I still keep my 40 watt 2000’s Simaudio Moon amp, has all the power I need and sounds great, I won’t buy another one till it dies
Absolutely!
I don't know if i'm wrong but low frequencies take more enegy than high frequencies and for each 3db step you have to double the power. So when listening to some nice rebassed music that has continous tones at 25-45 hz it takes a lot of energy. Most likly more than one watt when you want to feel the bass.
Yes indeed but only in a subjective way. ‘feeling the bass means power and high dB level - it’s just that you feel it more than hear it. BUT if your speakers have a flat frequency response then they produce as many db’s at low frequencies (for 1 watt) as they would at medium or high frequencies. Hoping that covers your concern?
how does the volume button work I got 80Watts PMA amp at 8ohm and run it on 20 percent with 92dB focals but 1 watt should be really loud so does the volume turner work exponetially and is the statement that for every 10dB increment the power needed is factor 10?
Hi, thanks for your question. The effect of the volume control varies from design to design. Logarithmic versus linear etc. I would not pay much attention.
Perhaps the best exercise is to get a white noise source and measure with an oscilloscope or multi meter, to get an accurate result.
It's kinda of like the young car guy these days obsessed with big HP figures but it's torque that's king on the street.
Very good point! Thanks for adding to the conversation. I should have thought of that analogy 😀
Years ago I switched to a 2.3WPC amp and speakers with about 95 sensitivity, and have never looked back.
Very interesting video. If 8 watts is enough, and we don't need to go beyond that, can we say that an amplifier capable of delivering let's say 100 watts is better than one capable of delivering 10 watts ? What's the relationship between max power output of an amplifier and "quality" at partial load ?
Dear Alexis, that’s a very good question. There are so many variables. If you have loudspeakers with a very stable resistance curve, ie it never drops much below 8 ohms (this is a big over simplification) then the amplifier does not need to draw so much current and a low wattage amplifier can be fine. The late amplifier designer, Gary Morison once proved that an amplifier that can deliver continuously 25 watts RMS, (average) is more than enough to drive any domestic loudspeakers with a sensitivity of over 86db to deafening levels. He was always so frustrated by the implied need for more and more powerful amplifiers. For example, If you like to listen at low or moderate volume in a relatively small room, then what you need is an amplifier that works really well at low volume, that is able to reach its optimum working temperature at low output, so that it is performing right in the middle of its desired range. This is one reason why some ‘low powered’ amplifiers can out perform high powered amplifiers in domestic situations. Hoping this helps a little?
@@PearlAcoustics thank you, I understand and I agree with the idea of somewhat limited requirements in terms of watts in a domestic situation. I've once been told that a strong power supply is the key for stability in the widest dynamic range an amplifier can do. My own very unprofessional experience is going that way I must say and I've got used to measure the "quality" (it's a very generic term) of an amplifier by its weight.
@@adewouters indeed, the power supply is crucial. In the US Nelson Pass designs some very good amplifiers. In the UK, Colin Wonfor. But there are just so many! In the future, I believe class D will get better and better and then, everything changes.
I'm fairly new to high-end audio and have had a Decware SE84UFO2 on backorder for a while now. I've recently become pretty curious about the Sibelius! The Decware outputs 2.3 watts, which is concerning for 87 db sensitivity, but I rarely listen to anything at over 70 db loud, let alone something like 80 db. Would I really have enough power on tap for my needs here? Or do you think I'd be lacking a bit of control and not getting much out the speakers with this amp? I'd also want to avoid damaging either of the components, of course
Hi, very sorry for the late reply. If you listen as quiet as you say, you won’t have any problem at all. It’s a fantastic combination in the right room. Feel free to reach out to us via our website and we’ll be happy to advise you. We have customers with the same combination and we loved it when we auditioned the zen
This is exactly why a properly built 12W valve amplifier coupled to high efficiency speakers sounds so awesome
87 is not that efficient though.... imagine 90+
@@jungtarcph Or even 100+!
yea for dialogs ....
Bonjour,
Bravo pour cette chaine youtube qui est très intéressante.
Vous utilisez quoi comme amplificateur....amplificateur à tubes ?
Hello,
Bravo for this youtube channel which is very interesting.
What amplifier do you use....tubes amplifier?
Thank you very much. You’re very kind. For the video I used a pair of Mingda Cavatina Tube amplifiers. You can see the right one glowing
Nice video. I showed a friend something similar. that a T-Amp and Klipsch speakers could get fairly loud.
Thanks!
i have a mark audio full range which get the best out of them class A which sound like tubue or neutral
The demo was great, but the part about how fast an amplifier can deliver power @8:50 is false. If the amplifier has a flat frequency response up to 20kHz (which almost all do), then it is fast enough. Damping factor is different thing. It is a function of amplifiers output impedance. A high damping factor (low output impedance) is also not necessarily always a good thing, but that a different story.
l love vt25 sound so much. But I have only one pair of focal 1028BE 91db speaker. I ve wonder is the 1.5w per channel VT25 single ended tube amp can drive 91db Focal 1028BE speaker within 100 square feet area？
I am no expert, but if you have 1,5 watts of power you will get at least 91,5db at 1 meter! Whether that’s enough depends on so many factors. You, the room, it’s damping etc etc. You just need to try these things. If it doesn’t work for you, then you’ll find a solution and move on. Good luck and enjoy the music!
Wonder how these will sound with a little Naim Nait? Or a Rogers HG88 valve amp?
What can I say? Very nice! Paul Messenger, the HiFi critic bought a pair for his living room and drove them with a Nait. 😉
that's why I LOVE my Klipsch with it's 98dB !!!
Hi, new subscriber. How come my NAD M10 V2 volume is measured in negative sign, ie -70db? It never goes positive?
Hi this is normal. In the audio industry we work on a maximum level scale. So we measure sound on equipment as the maximum minus x number of db’s so full volume, less 35db etc. For CD Mastering we have to stay 6db under 0 for our maximum peak. I admit it’s a bit strange but that’s how it is. The Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 has a feature where it can go 12db over 0! I hope this makes sense?
if its about speed of the amp then what makes the amp slow or fast exactly? thanks, really interesting / beautiful room and speakers.
Hi, that’s a very good question. Now I am not an expert but my colleague has informed me about the relationship between speed and damping factor. If an amplifier has a high damping factor it can stop and start the movement of a drive cone very quickly and give the impression of speed. Unfortunately though, not all amplifiers with relatively high damping are considered or sound ‘fast’. There are other factors involved too. it is also known that certain types of transistor tend to have properties that give the impression of speed. But so can the amplifiers’ ability to deliver high voltage quickly via discharging large amounts from its capacitor reservoirs, when necessary (and the time it takes to recharge them - think of a cameras flash gun and how long they take to recharge when you have pushed them to the limit). In general, class d switching amplifiers tend to have very dynamic / fast response times.
Now please do not take my answer too literally as scientifically my explanation is not very well expressed. But I hope it helps a bit?
Ok, so if I don't need to worry about the watts of the amplifier what should I worry about?
Getting enough time to listen 😉
Would love to see the same test done using a sine wave instead of a dynamic track. I'd bet you would need a less "volume" to reach that 1w/2.75v. Testing car audio I know it's impossible to get clamped wattage rating using anything with any kind of quick frequency change and especially so with lower end multimeters.
Just what I've been wondering recently.
I revisited hifi during this covid season due to having more time at home and started visiting Internet forums again.
I see people raving about 200W or 500W icepower modules and how cheaply they can built an audiophile grade amp with them. Started wondering... Do we really need 200W?
I had a 3.5W 2A3 amp for a couple of years and I don't think I pushed it even halfway. Anything more and I would have been kicked out of my neighbourhood.
So do we need that much power or 30W amp with a hefty power supply would meet most of our needs?
Thanks for this video... It clarified all my doubts
often budget or just plain hifi grad equipement is not that efficient
icepower moduels
Purifi 1ET400A
and hypex
also TPA3255 with the Texas Instrument Chipset
all offer very low signal to noise ratio almost silent even on higher loads
these DIY solutions outperform many expensive Class AB also in terms of Money/ Value
since a TPA3255 balance amp board and digital switching power supply is had for around 150 USD
I transitioned my self from pure clas A to a class D and i am blow away by the performance
Wow i definitely love that speaker is that available inphilippines? My hands is itchy on that speakers
Hi, glad you like it. Yes we deliver to the Philippines, feel free to reach out to us via our website. Best wishes
@@PearlAcoustics oh thank you
@@carmelovillena6174 you’re welcome
So you say the better the capacitor banks (higher?) the faster in can deliver that energy required?
Hi, thanks for your question. Unfortunately it’s not as straightforward as that, it really depends on the entire architecture. For example, class A tube amplifiers use output transformers etc. I have heard solid state amplifiers with massive capacitor banks that sound ‘dull’ for want of a better word. If it were purely a question capacitance, everyone would design their amplifiers the same way. In recent years, the subject of ‘capacitance’ has become a bit of a red herring, I am afraid
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you Mr. Lovegrove for explanation. You thing, according to this video, that max SPL from a speaker of 94,3dB will be sufficient for a normal european livingroom? Also using MarkAudio driver, which have limited power handling
@@dannyb5874 94,5db from one speaker gives you 98 from two. That would be plenty for me. But that’s a question of taste and hearing capability.
Interesting demo, even if one may quibble about technicalities. Two questions:
- What is the typical relationship of volume level set on amp to proportion/% of power used? I have a 120 W/channel amp, usually turn knob to about level 35/100 for less than speaking volume (~50-60 dB) in room with 88 db efficiency speakers. Knob turn would suggest ~35/120 W =~40 W going to speakers, but your demo suggest more like 0.1-0.2 W. Hmmm.
- Linearity of amplification was recently discussed by Ask Paul, who argues that strict linearity only exists in about bottom 10% of amp range. Does that linearity range differ with amplifier type (A, A/B, D)? That would explain why Nelson Pass First Watt amps go at max to 30 W (class A if I recall correctly), but your class D mono blocks have 600 W of potential power.
A volume control is usually scaled more on perceived loudness than power. Usually at around 5/10, the amplifier is 10dB below maximum - "half volume" is only about 10% power. At "35% volume" you will be using 3.6 watts out of 120, but the input gain is also important, as is the scale on your volume control for instance half the clicks on a scale could be 20dB down, and if the device uses the decibel scale, it could be a tiny fraction of maximum. If the input gain is higher, it could be more power, but the amp might clip at just over mid-way, or it could not reach maximum power at full volume if the input source is low.
Also music doesn't stay at its maximum level all the time. Only the loudest part of a song will use the amplifier's full power. This explains why small speakers can handle amps with surprisingly high power ratings, because the speaker isn't subject to a continuous tone. On average, only 10-25% of the amplifier's maximum power stresses the speakers at maximum "clean" volume.
So with a small 5" driver like that sound won't be lean and strained?
Obviously, I would say ‘not’ but maybe read some of our customer and professional reviews, for a more balanced answer. In any case think of them as a microphone in reverse. Microphones have no problem covering the whole acoustic range without being lean or strained.
@@PearlAcoustics ok thanks! And these are 1/4 wave horn loaded and not bass reflex?
@@klepp19 yes
When his 2 watts is louder than your 500.
Well I guess that's what happens when you buy "500" watts speakers.
Just look how big those tubes are. I have an 89db/w fostex speakers here hooked to a 22kg Yamaha ss integrated rated at 130w rms into 8ohms that takes in 600w of input power and a 98db pro jbl speakers powered by a 1kw class D amp. The Yammies have beefier bass and meatier mids than the larger speakers and I believe it's because of the toshiba output drive transistors and the two very large filter caps in it that makes the whole class ab much preferable to audio than class d for low levels. But the pro speakers of course would destroy any of these puny hifi speakers in regards to pure sound pressure level. I practically listen only to two genres at a time, old classical music recordings and 70's rock. JBL for the former and Fostex for the latter. No matter how good hifi is, pro audio beats it flat out in dynamics.
@@automachinehead I can't quite understand what you're trying to say. Dynamics and SPL aren't the same thing, and whilst of course a serious and expensive pro-audio setup would destroy any HiFi setup in terms of shear volume, I wouldn't necessarily claim the same regarding sound quality.
Pro speakers and amps can sound very good, but that means you need to buy expensive equipment to achieve the same sound quality of something that you could have with much cheaper HiFi components. I'm not talking about records and tube amplifiers either, those aren't for "pure" sound quality.
@@ilpatongi I mean for now a have a LG XBOOM stereo thing. But sometime in march I'm getting like a Sony DH something receiver, 3000w rockville amp, (2) RSG12s from rockville, and the RBG10 sub.
plus all the necessary wires and stuff.
@@James-ce7wo I doubt you will solve anything if quality is your goal, it's extremely cheap and low quality stuff