Norway spawning Colonialism is grand. Also a bit ashamed you didn't vassal feed Cuba parts of Mexico right away: it's so easy! edit: Shoulda gotten a better grasp of Ivory Coast too, that shit is bonkers if you just take targeted conquests and lets you steal all the trade going to Sevilla. Grabbing the Mexican gold, then the East African gold funds so much growth if done well and quick and you can and should have explo at least at first to grab select provinces to get targeted trade provinces
I hadn't thought about vassal feeding Cuba until I was editing the video lol In my head I was just thinking let's get to the New world and compete with the Europeans.
@@thechairmangames Yeah, in normal play, you'd never do it, because you want many, smaller colonies ASAP so it ain't intuitive. Also you quickly develop a deep and abiding hatred of England in any New World game, but also for future reference galley spam and/or Naval are almost a necessity to beat them, especially if you have the DLCs that buff them honestly, not getting tag teamed by Spain/Portugal was the bigger surprise, which I guess was because of the treaty of torte-dillas (I know it ain't called that but it's what I always see) which is who usually screws over natives in the area
Huge fan of this series - made me think of trade a lot more in my games. Keep it up :D Currently playing Kitara and trying to spawn Global Trade in the Cape of Good Hope
Oh, and since you asked for advice, I noticed specifically in Africa, with the addition of the "Ask for knowledge sharing" button, institutions are ridiculously easy to get. The europeans colonize near you, so they count as within colonial range.
14:26 workshops DON'T raise the trade value of your provinces. It raises production efficiency, which is a multiplier that affects production income directly. It doesn't increase goods produced, which affects trade value. Also, minor point, but raising the trade value of the node you're spawning in is, counter-intuitively, secondary to increasing trade control in the home node. If you have 100% control in a downstream node that flows into your home node, and only partial% control in the home node, then increasing trade value in the downstream node is going to be slightly more efficient than in the home node, since the trade value that flows out is multiplied by trade steering. Generally, you won't of course have that 100% control, which means that ultimately it comes down to where the trade value increase is most efficient, without a specified preference for your home node.
This again comes up when you're placing parliament seats. Parliament seats give prod eff, but nothing to do with trade, or goods produced. It's of course still good to place them as much as possible, more money means more investment, but it doesn't directly contribute to your goal.
See this is where I sometimes get confused because after placing workshops and buildings that increase production I find the value of the node increases as well. But next video I'll try and apply this and focus on some downstream trade also
The confusion here comes from what "trade value" actually is. Trade value in a node is equal to your total amount of trade value of the provinces in that node. Trade value in a province, is equal to the goods produced of that province, multiplied by the cost of the local good, multiplied by any trade value modifiers (and of course multiplied by autonomy). There is only one of these, the township investment that comes from trade company investments (+10%), so you can forget about that. this means, that for all intents and purposes, "trade value" and "goods produced" are roughly the same thing. Goods produced is a number, you can see it in the bottom left of any province. It is equal to the production development of that province, plus all flat modifiers, multiplied by any goods produced modifiers (goods produced, NOT production efficiency). See how nowhere in the story of the trade value of a province, production efficiency is mentioned? Production efficiency comes into play for the production income from a province. The production income from a province, is equal to its trade value, multiplied by any production efficiency modifiers. It is not relevant for either the trade power, or the trade value of a province. The trade power of a province is also completely unrelated to its trade value. Trade power comes from several flat modifiers, including 0.2 times its absolute dev (not just diplo dev! absolute dev!!), multiplied by some rare percentage modifiers. This is why trade centres are important. A 25 dev level 3 trade centre gives 25+0.2*25 local trade power, which would be equal to a 100 dev province without one. But nowhere in the calculation for local trade power does the trade value come into play. This means that securing high value trade goods in a node is nice for production income, but doesn't accelerate your trade control over that node any more than a different set of provinces with equal dev would. It's a fascinatingly complicated system, but it is understandable. Try hovering over the left column in the province overview a couple of times, and studying the modifiers there. You can see exactly where everything comes from, and it demystifies a lot of this slightly idiosyncratic system.
Oh also, ivory coast is gonna be borderline impossible. There will be sooo much trade flowing away from you to some very strong nodes. Cuba is already very hard because of this, but aside from the English Channel and Sevilla (into which both of these flow), ivory coast will also flow into bordeaux and cuba. Normally you'll want to conquer the node directly upstream from your home node (Think Russia having their home node in Novgorod, and conquering the Baltic. Conquering Ragusa if your home node is constantinople, conquering Valencia if your home node is Sevilla, taking Yumen as China, etc), but in this case (and in the cuba case) that's basically impossible. So I suggest building the biggest light ship fleet the world has ever seen, and conquering downstream. Open with exploration/expansion, you'll need the colonists, take immediate control of the home node and the cape. After that, expand into Zanzibar and Indonesia. Zanzibar only flows into cape, and Cape only flows into Ivory coast, so you'll have 100% control of both of those if you manage to snatch all the provinces. You can take the African interior as well if you want to, but they're feeding your nodes already probably. If you have time left after Zanzibar and Indonesia, I recommend Coromandel and Siam.
Your series actually gave me some ideas to start some campings. I once tried to spawn it in Tibet and It's impossible. But I still like to see you try it. Maybe with a custom nation it works but It's really hard. The most obscure one I spwaned it was Gulf of St. Lawrence. Also I'm not sure that goods produced modifier actually increases trade value in a node. What increases the trade value is flat goods produced wich you can get it by building manufactories and developing production. Some monuments also increase that like the copper mine that sweden owns.
That's awesome! I'm glad it encouraged some unique playthroughs. I am worried that Tibet will be impossible so I'm kinda building up to it trying every trade node along the way to at the very least make Tibet a rich trade node
The Navy focus idea’s would probably help a ton to help stop the British, Portugese, Spanish, etc. especially when you have to “nation swap” and thus are practically stopping and restating
You should've focused more in getting 100% trade in Caribean, by not doing that you were basically giving that 30~ to Sevilla and English Channel, that's why they were so high. Great video anyways.
It's great to send as many privateer's to nodes feeding richest nodes thus they have less trade value. Like privateer's in my Kazan game lowered the trade value in the English channel by maybe 30 bucks.
@@thechairmangames I think it does cause the ships get to collect directly thus the AI has less money to transfer from the North sea into the English channel and less money to transfer from the Ivory coast in the English channel.
Haah, you actually tried new world, building manufactories really is the way to go to get more trade value, but you did remain too small to swing the pendulum decisively in your favour, i'll give it a try as a Chesapeake area nation and see if i can do better as they get a ton of Furs(that get 2 price increases before 1600) can grow larger by conquering the natives and the trade node itself is much larger than carribean. Other options would probably include trying a native start to quickly unify your region and reform once the europeans arrive or remaining an european colonial master and spamming manufactories in your CN territory and just stop transferring it once 1600 rolls around.
I have 2 questions. First is there was 14 ducats going from africa to spain, why didn't you try to contest that? Second is while trying to compete valencia node, would steering trade from valencia to barcelona be useful?
I kept looking at Ivory coast to see if it would be worth it, but with the coast being out of my range and really not a lot of money coming from Asia this game I didn't really think about it though I probably should have colonized at lease one province there. When it comes to trade in Iberia, Sevilla makes an absurd amount of money and even in my video where I was Aragon and I did spawn trade in Valencia I had to push soooo much money out of Sevilla, I had to devalue that node. When it comes to this campaign it probably could have worked if I had conquered some of Safi and Sevilla to push that trade away.
This reminds me in my games I need to destroy the English channel earliest as possible due to what happened here. The reasons why the HRE gets a ton of trade value lately is cause when the AI doesn't eat each other they dev the heck out of production and they all build manufactures. I personally like to send as many privateer's to the North sea when this is get close to spawning cause they directly collect trade value thus making less value down stream Maritime or naval would have been better than economic in this case.
![EU4 1.36 Egypt is the BEST Mamluks Path [KoK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EBV47vDMAZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
Norway spawning Colonialism is grand. Also a bit ashamed you didn't vassal feed Cuba parts of Mexico right away: it's so easy!
edit: Shoulda gotten a better grasp of Ivory Coast too, that shit is bonkers if you just take targeted conquests and lets you steal all the trade going to Sevilla. Grabbing the Mexican gold, then the East African gold funds so much growth if done well and quick and you can and should have explo at least at first to grab select provinces to get targeted trade provinces
I hadn't thought about vassal feeding Cuba until I was editing the video lol In my head I was just thinking let's get to the New world and compete with the Europeans.
@@thechairmangames Yeah, in normal play, you'd never do it, because you want many, smaller colonies ASAP so it ain't intuitive.
Also you quickly develop a deep and abiding hatred of England in any New World game, but also for future reference galley spam and/or Naval are almost a necessity to beat them, especially if you have the DLCs that buff them
honestly, not getting tag teamed by Spain/Portugal was the bigger surprise, which I guess was because of the treaty of torte-dillas (I know it ain't called that but it's what I always see) which is who usually screws over natives in the area
Huge fan of this series - made me think of trade a lot more in my games. Keep it up :D
Currently playing Kitara and trying to spawn Global Trade in the Cape of Good Hope
Oh, and since you asked for advice, I noticed specifically in Africa, with the addition of the "Ask for knowledge sharing" button, institutions are ridiculously easy to get. The europeans colonize near you, so they count as within colonial range.
Small thing but on your flagship for trade you can put +1 fleet movement speed which also increases Trade Power from protecting trade iirc.
14:26 workshops DON'T raise the trade value of your provinces. It raises production efficiency, which is a multiplier that affects production income directly. It doesn't increase goods produced, which affects trade value.
Also, minor point, but raising the trade value of the node you're spawning in is, counter-intuitively, secondary to increasing trade control in the home node. If you have 100% control in a downstream node that flows into your home node, and only partial% control in the home node, then increasing trade value in the downstream node is going to be slightly more efficient than in the home node, since the trade value that flows out is multiplied by trade steering. Generally, you won't of course have that 100% control, which means that ultimately it comes down to where the trade value increase is most efficient, without a specified preference for your home node.
This again comes up when you're placing parliament seats. Parliament seats give prod eff, but nothing to do with trade, or goods produced. It's of course still good to place them as much as possible, more money means more investment, but it doesn't directly contribute to your goal.
See this is where I sometimes get confused because after placing workshops and buildings that increase production I find the value of the node increases as well. But next video I'll try and apply this and focus on some downstream trade also
The confusion here comes from what "trade value" actually is. Trade value in a node is equal to your total amount of trade value of the provinces in that node.
Trade value in a province, is equal to the goods produced of that province, multiplied by the cost of the local good, multiplied by any trade value modifiers (and of course multiplied by autonomy). There is only one of these, the township investment that comes from trade company investments (+10%), so you can forget about that. this means, that for all intents and purposes, "trade value" and "goods produced" are roughly the same thing.
Goods produced is a number, you can see it in the bottom left of any province. It is equal to the production development of that province, plus all flat modifiers, multiplied by any goods produced modifiers (goods produced, NOT production efficiency).
See how nowhere in the story of the trade value of a province, production efficiency is mentioned? Production efficiency comes into play for the production income from a province. The production income from a province, is equal to its trade value, multiplied by any production efficiency modifiers. It is not relevant for either the trade power, or the trade value of a province.
The trade power of a province is also completely unrelated to its trade value. Trade power comes from several flat modifiers, including 0.2 times its absolute dev (not just diplo dev! absolute dev!!), multiplied by some rare percentage modifiers. This is why trade centres are important. A 25 dev level 3 trade centre gives 25+0.2*25 local trade power, which would be equal to a 100 dev province without one. But nowhere in the calculation for local trade power does the trade value come into play. This means that securing high value trade goods in a node is nice for production income, but doesn't accelerate your trade control over that node any more than a different set of provinces with equal dev would.
It's a fascinatingly complicated system, but it is understandable. Try hovering over the left column in the province overview a couple of times, and studying the modifiers there. You can see exactly where everything comes from, and it demystifies a lot of this slightly idiosyncratic system.
Oh also, ivory coast is gonna be borderline impossible. There will be sooo much trade flowing away from you to some very strong nodes. Cuba is already very hard because of this, but aside from the English Channel and Sevilla (into which both of these flow), ivory coast will also flow into bordeaux and cuba.
Normally you'll want to conquer the node directly upstream from your home node (Think Russia having their home node in Novgorod, and conquering the Baltic. Conquering Ragusa if your home node is constantinople, conquering Valencia if your home node is Sevilla, taking Yumen as China, etc), but in this case (and in the cuba case) that's basically impossible. So I suggest building the biggest light ship fleet the world has ever seen, and conquering downstream. Open with exploration/expansion, you'll need the colonists, take immediate control of the home node and the cape. After that, expand into Zanzibar and Indonesia. Zanzibar only flows into cape, and Cape only flows into Ivory coast, so you'll have 100% control of both of those if you manage to snatch all the provinces. You can take the African interior as well if you want to, but they're feeding your nodes already probably.
If you have time left after Zanzibar and Indonesia, I recommend Coromandel and Siam.
Your series actually gave me some ideas to start some campings. I once tried to spawn it in Tibet and It's impossible. But I still like to see you try it. Maybe with a custom nation it works but It's really hard. The most obscure one I spwaned it was Gulf of St. Lawrence.
Also I'm not sure that goods produced modifier actually increases trade value in a node. What increases the trade value is flat goods produced wich you can get it by building manufactories and developing production. Some monuments also increase that like the copper mine that sweden owns.
That's awesome! I'm glad it encouraged some unique playthroughs. I am worried that Tibet will be impossible so I'm kinda building up to it trying every trade node along the way to at the very least make Tibet a rich trade node
The Navy focus idea’s would probably help a ton to help stop the British, Portugese, Spanish, etc. especially when you have to “nation swap” and thus are practically stopping and restating
You should've focused more in getting 100% trade in Caribean, by not doing that you were basically giving that 30~ to Sevilla and English Channel, that's why they were so high.
Great video anyways.
Thats a good point
4 caribbean grain provinces is crazy.
That should have given me a hint this was gonna be a rough one
It's great to send as many privateer's to nodes feeding richest nodes thus they have less trade value. Like privateer's in my Kazan game lowered the trade value in the English channel by maybe 30 bucks.
Privateering lowers a node's trade value? I knew it stole money but I didn't know it actually lowered the value of a node
@@thechairmangames I think it does cause the ships get to collect directly thus the AI has less money to transfer from the North sea into the English channel and less money to transfer from the Ivory coast in the English channel.
Haah, you actually tried new world, building manufactories really is the way to go to get more trade value, but you did remain too small to swing the pendulum decisively in your favour, i'll give it a try as a Chesapeake area nation and see if i can do better as they get a ton of Furs(that get 2 price increases before 1600) can grow larger by conquering the natives and the trade node itself is much larger than carribean. Other options would probably include trying a native start to quickly unify your region and reform once the europeans arrive or remaining an european colonial master and spamming manufactories in your CN territory and just stop transferring it once 1600 rolls around.
I have 2 questions. First is there was 14 ducats going from africa to spain, why didn't you try to contest that? Second is while trying to compete valencia node, would steering trade from valencia to barcelona be useful?
I kept looking at Ivory coast to see if it would be worth it, but with the coast being out of my range and really not a lot of money coming from Asia this game I didn't really think about it though I probably should have colonized at lease one province there.
When it comes to trade in Iberia, Sevilla makes an absurd amount of money and even in my video where I was Aragon and I did spawn trade in Valencia I had to push soooo much money out of Sevilla, I had to devalue that node. When it comes to this campaign it probably could have worked if I had conquered some of Safi and Sevilla to push that trade away.
I was wondering if you noticed that part of south america that is Venezuela is in the Caribbean node?
Yeah it's like the island off of the coast and I think like 3 provinces mainland
You can do this with Florida as well@@thechairmangames
That's because that zone was part of the Viceroyalty of New Spain before it became the Viceroyalty of New Granada with the Bourbonic Reforms.
This reminds me in my games I need to destroy the English channel earliest as possible due to what happened here. The reasons why the HRE gets a ton of trade value lately is cause when the AI doesn't eat each other they dev the heck out of production and they all build manufactures. I personally like to send as many privateer's to the North sea when this is get close to spawning cause they directly collect trade value thus making less value down stream Maritime or naval would have been better than economic in this case.
spawn Global trande in Siberia or girin or Samarkand pls
I may try Samarkand after Ivory Coast
The moment you said they have decent ideas I stopped watching. You dont need to talk positive about every detail of your gameplay
???
Caribean ideas were quite decent.