A knife is NOT a knife, Is NOT a knife! RANT | My thoughts on knife testing
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2019
- My thoughts on edge retention testing as well as knife testing in general. Use your knife properly! And why I dont do "scientific" edge retention testing.
SupersteelSteve⬇️
/ @supersteelsteve
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors⬇️
/ cedricada
About⬇️
Hi, Im Alex, im a knife maker and RUclipsr, based out of southern Pennsylvania and my youtube channel is Outdoors55. This channel started as an outdoor backpacking channel, but quickly grew into a knife/ knife making channel. Everything I do on my channel is family friendly. I primarily focus on knife / knife making videos but occasionally throw in something different. Thank you for watching!😀
#knifemaking #knife #knifemaker #outdoors55
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Everything i say and do on this channel is protected free speech. I am simply exercising my 1st amendment right under the United States constitution. The supreme law of the land. I am exercising my right to protest. As well as my 4th and 5th amendment rights. 
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Very, very well said. This reminds me of the a quote from Einstein, "But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." A little different, but along the same lines. Great video, very informative!
Thanks! Wish I could have remembered that quote for the video 👍👍
I'm looking forward to seeing Onion Testing become a thing 😁👍
Great!!!
a trick: you can watch series at flixzone. I've been using it for watching all kinds of movies recently.
@Uriah Sincere Yup, been using Flixzone} for months myself :D
If I want to cut cardboard I generally use a Stanley utility knife
I use my colleagues Gerber...
@@shayanthis I chuckled at that!
lol, I know, right? I have a pocket M16 Tanto CRKT and my wife a Gerber with a Tanto that has been sharpened to a sharp point at the junction just for breaking down and cutting cardboard or anything else you might expect like plastic sheeting, or old shirts and tape. Every knife can have a purpose and there's a purpose for different knives. I don't force a knife to do a job or want meant for except for my Swiss Army knife! lol 😂
I use a Ferrari
Enjoyed your rant and it made perfect sense, however it’s common knowledge that the only scientific knife experiment is the shave hair off the forearm test.
I get the knife for the purpose I need. A friend asked, "why so many knives?" "Each one has a specific purpose," was and always will be my answer. Each is like you said unique to the edge, bevel, contour, grind, RC, and steel type. I'm glad someone is finally talking about this and going to do this. Thank you.
I really wanna make a sort of "everything knife" lol maybe it's foolhardy but if not then imma do it
It's like your kitchen utensils/pans, they're for different things lol. I haven't seen someone making a stew in a frying pan, though it's probs possible, just a terrible idea. So yeah, each knife has a niche/set of niches it fills.
@@edanpino5035 First, I suppose you'd have to jot down a list of what "everything" would consist of. Ask around, get a bunch of varied tasks, then see if it's possible. That's not supposed to come off as sarcy btw.
@@Reploidx9 I gotcha
I’m so glad someone else feels this way, being an avid camper and backpacker, I have tons of knives made for different purposes, skinning, chopping, EDC, and so many others; people who don’t use there knives very often don’t really understand that
Definitely this. Opinel versus Mora would have very different use cases. I've is super slicey and great for food prep in stainless, mora is great for carving or whatnot.
I have been shaking my head for years about these tests I see because, years ago I said to myself exactly what you just explained here. Thank you.
Its not that there's not any validity to some if the testing. Its just that it doesn't make sense within the context of some of the knives that are being tested. Thanks for the comment 👍👍👍👊👊👊
Great Rant! Your spot on, a tool is designed to do a specific job, usually to impart a certain mechanical or physical advantage. The Knife Is A Tool! Get the right tool to do the right job. Understood. 👍👍👍. Mike.
Ahhhhhh finally someone talking sense. I actually had an argument with a guy claiming that his bushcraft knife can do it all. I was trying to explain to him that I could do a pretty good job filleting a fish with an axe but a fillet knife would be WAY better.. nope I was apparently wrong. Knife design, steel properties and heat treat is key to a great knife. Many great designs are disappearing because of marketing and "fashion". I call it sharp flat bar knives. My grandfather used to make them with a taper to the handle and to the tip. He said it reduced shock, weight and gave it better flexibility. He would lose his shit if he saw many knives that were made today. Lol great video brother.
i like a good looking knife, but it needs to be able to be used and to the extent of the materials. it needs to be ergonomic, have good heat treatment and the correct geometry to do an intended job.
But i agree that more and more knives are being designed for the look, or action in the case of folders. and while that maybe nice and appeal to a certain genre, its annoying because what its doing to peoples thoughts on knives and what its turning manufactures into. its going to be near impossible to get good heat treatments and knives that are designed to be used in a manor that can superseded opening your mail, or cutting yarn from your sweater. it triggers me when i see all sorts of knife designs that just want to cash in on a list of materials that can flip and take instagram photos. maybe im jaded, but its definitely an issue.
I'd love to see a video of someone trying to fillet a fish with an axe. (Not a custom axe with a thin grind, but a 100% original $30 Home Depot Husky axe.)
@@BurnDuration lol ya that would be something. Those axes couldn't cut jello. I have cleaned a fish and cornish hen with my hultafors hultan hatchet. It worked better than I thought it would but by far a shitty job compared to a fillet knife and my hatchet is razor sharp.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I agree, I often laugh at the Tacticool knives out there. A company has made a nice functional knife. It has been around a while but all of a sudden the market changes and they take the same model and paint it black, call it tactical and charge more. And then there is all the sharpened pry bars. Or companies like Schrade who changed almost all their grinds to hollow grinds, give them silly shapes but make them look cool. Unfortunately youtube has played a huge role in this. Outdoor knives use to be designed to cut, skin, process game and general camp tasks. Now they are designed to split wood. I am not against batoning but there are many other reasons to use a knife than that.
@@AdventureTimeOutdoorsugh, yeah. Even scandi grinds knives are getting way too thick. They're much better with thinner stock or they become unusable for cutting food. A tough as hell 4mm spine with a 12 degree scandi is like the worst of both worlds.
Loved the rant! I take away something from all your test videos and I appreciate you doing them. Don't let crappy comments get to you. You're doing a great job and I always look forward to new videos.
Dude, you should definitely do more rants. Fun to listen to and it's actually pretty coherent unlike other 'rants' I've heard people do before.
Definitely agree. All the “torture testing” out there has to be prefaced with the understanding that the actual goal isn’t to see IF the item breaks, but rather where it breaks. That way the right mindset of the consumer can be appeased, instead of everyone just saying, “Ya see it broke, it sux cause it broke!”
Side note, is there any way to work with M4 steel without the level of oven you’re utilizing?
Love your vids, keep up the excellent content, and thank you for all your hard work!
I agree with your rant. The right tool for the right job... always!
I love what you are doing and your videos are very informative and I always learn from them. Keep up the great work!
Fully agree!! I can't believe this is not more spreaded thought... great point of view and great comparison and explanation too
One of the best explanations I have ever heard put into layman’s terms where everyone can understand the difference in geometry /use of a blade. Awesome job 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Rant noted!
Looking forward to more of your style of testing and commentary. Thumbs up! :)
Nicely said. I'm new to the world of knives and this is my go-to channel. Appreciate your time!
I subscribed and this is the second video I've seen. Very informative and interesting. I'm glad I saw this in my recommended. Nice rant.
love your videos and admire your skills. I have been following your recommendations and now I am able to sharpen my knifes to almost clean shaving. What you said here my friend sounds logic and extremely clear. I hope to see more about what you have to say and teach.
One last thing, every time you make a knife I see you trying new stuff and I think that is pretty cool to always search and look out for improve your methods. I believe that's the mark of a smart and humble man.
Im devince from iG. I never watch a 15min video without ffwd it. I watch all of this one. Brilliant. Wise words.
Great information, I have been “playing” around with knife sharpening for a little while, your videos explain it in a way that makes better sense then anything else I’ve heard.
Hi buddy, I've been procrastinating on your videos for a long time because I can't tear myself away from them. I'm an engineer and in my opinion you know very well what you do. Don't be discouraged and disgusted by people who can only crash and slander others for creating something. I really love your productions! I like to go to the forest and without a knife I feel like naked. I marvel at your knives, which still cut after chopping hard wood, like razors. SUPERB !!! And there is also a lot of fun with your videos (damascene knife). So, is it even wood?! Greetings from the Czech Republic. :)
Your approach to testing makes a lot of sense. Keep up the great work.
Agreed ! You do not hammer a nail wth a screwdriver...
An old German "sprichwort" says
"Was mein Vater mir nich glauben wollt
das ich mit der Axt auch bohren konnt"
what means - "What my father didn want me to believe, that I could drill with an axe" ;)
Everything is a hammer, unless it’s a screwdriver...then it’s a chisel. 😂
If all you have is a hammer, then everything you see looks like a nail.🙂
I dunno, I've been known to hammer in screws...
I once actually did that, it was slow going, and I didn't really care that much about the screwdriver.
Pure awesomeness Alex! Thanks for your honest and experiential point of view!
Alex you are spot on, I watch and love Steve and Pete’s channels and they do provide good general info but you also make a great point with the Ferrari and listed chevy, I think a lot of people get caught up and almost get tunnel vision for one aspect of knives or knife steel, awesome job man I absolutely love this channel
Got it Alex. Thanks for all the analogies!!! Crystal clear. Cool rant. I’ll rely on your data points for now. I still haven’t even hooked up my oven yet. My garage spiders love spinning webs on it though 😩
This "rant" has much information about the edge of a blade. I learned quite a bit about knife "edges" Thanks.
Great video as usual Alex, you are doing an awesome job. Thanks for the info
Just wanted to say that I love all your videos, rants or not. I'm sure you've gotten this request before and maybe because the versatility and robust nature of a fixed blade you've only made fixed blades; but I would love to see your take on a folding EDC pocket knife, or really any folding knife as your explanations and step by step videos are by far the most thorough I've found on RUclips! If this isn't something you're interested in I understand I and will continue watching your videos. Thanks for inspiring me to start making my own and i wish you the best of luck moving forward, finding content, succeeding in life as well as this channel!
Great video and I totally agree. Thanks for all the great content.
Hi Alex. Very very well said, and You are soo right. Keep on the good work
Brilliant and totally agree!
Thank you sir.
This made me realize that I have been buying Knives that I don't need, heat treated means a lot, finally someone made a video talking about this topic so clearly, Thanks man 👍 great video.
Outstanding ! Spot on !
Thanks for a coherent vid on common sense of knife science.
Great video man. Makes perfect sense. People need to understand this before making comment that make them look dumb. Love your channel.
That quenching press is a really good idea!
I appreciate your knowledge
The haters will find you!! They always do. The best videos are you going savage on a freshly made knife. Love it!!
Don't forget Outpost 76, does cardboard cut testing too. As well as Tom Hosang outdoors.
Appreciate it brother
Outpost 76 you should put up a profile picture so you don’t blend in as much
Beautifully stated 👍
Alex. Great rant. Totally agree. Relevant but going off slightly. I wonder wether all the ‘snobbery’ about what’s the best steel for this and that task and associated edge testing is really about satisfying a demand for people who don’t actually use knives day to day? More for enthusiasts who want ‘the best’ as they conclude from research ( often on RUclips). I use sharp tools every day for my job as a gardener. Part of the job is knowing which tool to use and how to maintain it on the job. When to add a quick touch up to a pair of secateurs or resharpen it. Knowing what is a good pair of secateurs and what is not? Experience. Work. Maintenance. The haters are probably collectors who want the best in their mirrored collection. Always your videos are informative and entertaining. Keep it up.
Great video and I agree with your point.
Dont pay attention to the trolls bro, i love your videos and i am sure most of the people do, dont let a few morons stop you from making the videos we love.
About time someone did this type of vid. Well done and thank you
Thanks. Learn something new with every video.
Sensible, rational rant video. I like those.
I completely agree with you I make all my blades and I do a ton of outdoor stuff and when i go hunting I take 3 different knives. One for chopping fire wood one for skinning and a small friction folder for the camp site kind of my utility knife, each one is a different material and each one i made for a specific purpose
Awesome video. 👍🏻 Have quickly become a big fan.
Whew man, you are going down the rabbit hole, not only different steels and their uses, but one steel alone & the different levels of heat treat can be enough to make a man go crazy hahaha... People are always asking me to make chefs knives & I always have the same answer. I don't know enough about them to make one with confidence. I actually messed up a dagger build & turned it into a kitchen knife shape, mainly to try an "S" grind, but I make it very clear, it's shaped like a chef's knife, but i don't know how good it'll actually work... I agree with your final thoughts & preach basically the same thing, this is how i do it, go out & see what works for you... Great video, hope all is well, take it easy...
I almost touched on the same topic. I dont make chefs knives because im not a chef. Can I physically make one, yeah, sure, but it probably wont be super good😂 i stick with what i know i want a knife can do. Thanks for the comment brother 👊👊👊
I am picking up what you are laying down Alex... great rant Brother! Cheers
Great vid. You're a guy who actually has his feet on the ground when it comes to giving the full story. Yours is great information needed for anybody getting into bushcraft thinking he has to take just one knife. I don't see this vid as a rant at all.
These types of things remind me of a saying I read some time ago that I really liked.
It's akin to judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
Very well said love it and love the videos and Chanel
Where have you been, come on, we missed you :) Spot on video BTW. What you are referring to is simply а real life scenario testing, which many people forget how should be done.
You are right Alex
Alex, most of the time when I see other testing videos, they are testing Brand X knife with steel A against Brand Y knife with steel B... You are the first person I have seen that even bothers to test the same grind style and blade profile against different steels. Others should learn this lesson from you!
I agree. Testing based on what the item is meant for seems to be a logical idea
Perfect! Well said Sir!
I enjoyed your rant. And you’re absolutely right, knives are made for specific purposes, I happen to be into Japanese Style cooking knives and each has a different purpose, And they are mostly the same kind of steel. Thanks again keep them coming.
A perfect example 👍👍 thanks for the comment 👊👊
A+
Everything you said makes perfect sense. Anyone that has an issue needs to watch it again and actually listen to what you had to say. No point in saying keep up the excellent work, you always do and put out quality content.
Fantastic non-rant....just good info. Frustration arises when all the wisdom of building a blade with proper geometry and steel for a particular use and my client chooses the one with the prettiest handle.
I think you're right on man!!!!! Keep doin what you doin no mater what they say!!
Loved this video man, please don’t let the negativity of people get to you
Amen man! I haven't done a ton of testing... Mostly destructive testing on 1084. I haven't quite gotten one to go 60 degrees then back to 0 like you mentioned (lol, I have some work to do!). My knives are usually used by hunters for skinning. Do you have any recommended testing techniques for skinners? Prying may not be as much of a concern, but cutting, and edge retention when contacting bone would be. As always, thanks for your perspectives and videos!
I usually look for apex stability doing different things at different geometry's (I usually start at 10 degrees per side and adjust till i stop getting micro chipping at the apex. ). I would think a good piece of hardwood would mimic a bone fairly nicely. 🙂
Well stated, brother.
Great video Alex. You know you gotta make a chefs knife now right and try your analogy lol. I'd actually love to see you build a chefs knife and make dinner with it. You get your knives ridiculously sharp would be pretty dope.
I get why you had this discussion with me but you only needed to mention the truck and the car as knife's make your point . Your very good .
The knife community needed to hear this. Keep up the good work brother. Your videos are the best.
I think most underrated this. Its the new ones that can get confused. I can understand as sometimes im confused looking at production knives. I find myself ask "what are these actually for?". 😂 Thanks my friend 👊👊👊
OUTDOORS55 for rope/cardboard cutting, obviously.
Superb video, again. Thank you. I doubt you’ll do this but there are so many steels out there and so may you tube videos saying “K390 is a beast......!” Etc. Spyderco have produced a knife called waterway in LN something. It’s completely stainless, strong and sharp. It’s completely designed as a water knife, brilliant for anything at the beach. However, for most other things there are lots of “Bush” knives in lots of super steels and lots of brain freeze. It would be really good to know what knife each steel would excel at, and maybe why?
Well said, it's nice to hear some educated knife talk rather than seeing or hearing about the typical paper or shave the hair on your arm test which is redundant nowadays. You'll have to get used to the negative comments when ya approach the knife world because many become egocentric and quickly biased by which they've been taught of learned .your experience n your hands on approach is well received n a change of pace from the norm regarding knife making n such keep up the good work
Thank you Alex, no hate mail here, another great vid. I always learn something cool from you!
Woodwork saw vs metal work saw.... I feel like this is a good comparison to what you're saying, loved this rant, been thinking the same thing for a long time.
Well said.
Very cool take, especially on the muddy waters explanation. I think that was the most important clarification here. You have to know what you're looking for and looking at. I do like all these tests because they are a reference, as long as I know what each type of steel, geometry and heat treatment can do better or worse. For example, when LC200N came out, I knew its main purpose was corrosion resistance, and I knew it wasn't going to be as hard or resistant as, say, M4, Maxamet or S110V. However, it was good to know how it more or less stacked up with these steels in a normal task like cutting cardboard, and think to myself if it was worth the sacrifice for the corrosion resistance or vice-versa. Same goes for toughness, is it likely that I'll roll my edge, do I normally pry things or cut hard things with my knife? Do I need 3V or am I better of with S110V? A lot of other things come into account, of course, I'm just kinda ranting along with you.
Torture testing on any product is mostly there to test its limits and give you a sense of confidence, as long as you don't misuse it or actually try to measure overall quality through that one type of test. Flashlights, for example, are normally tested at 1-3 meter drops. I like seeing tests where they drop them from far higher or even chuck them across the street, because now I know that if, by accident, I drop my light from a rooftop, it might survive. However, that doesn't measure the longevity of the components, just the durability; it also has nothing to do with user interface or brightness. These are, of course, my two cents as a flashlight and knife enthusiast who likes to shop carefully. I agree with you on muddying the waters, and every tester out there should always explain pros and cons of steel, geometry, blade stock, etc...
Awesome content always, dude.
Agree with your rant.
Kudos to you Alex for speakin the plain truth. Great vehicle analogies. Most of the hype is driven by youtubers selling their wares or fluffing their own popularity.
Fantastic!
I've gotten in arguments with coworkers about misusing tools - which I think beautifully sums up your point.
A ratchet wrench makes a horrible hammer, just like a ratchet extension makes a horrible punch. Can a ratchet and extension be used to replace a hammer and punch? YES! Probably only once, but yes. And they'll be horrible at, and you'll destroy them.
(Supervisor destroyed a 6" 3/8 drive extension of mine by using it as a punch - locking ball gone, ends mushroomed to the point it wouldn't fit a ratchet or socket... and no apologies from him)
Tools are designed for a purpose. A knife is a tool. There are many types of knives designed for specific purposes. Using it for anything other than it's intended purpose is misuse.
I, for one, am excited to see the m4 testing results
Thank you for this rant. Ive often heard peope make the geometry and heat temper arguements, but none have ever given great examples of what that means. Im now a more knowledgeable knife owner.
I think you are 100% correct. A knife is a tool. Like every other tool, they serve different purposes. I have my EDC knife which I beat up and abuse and it does that very well. I have other knives I do not even take outside, and everything in between. Keep up your excellent videos.
Gonna go ahead and say BALLS! for Steve. Great talking points here.👊
He might be slightly EDGY for some of my audience but his testing is legit👊👍
Thank you for this video. I get driven nuts by people who don't understand that knives are designed with functions in mind. The most common place I see it, is generally the kitchen. Nothing worse than seeing someone trying to break down a whole cabbage with a 4" paring knife. Or chop with something that doesn't offset the knuckles from the cutting board. When people do that, they always hover their hand off the counter to avoid bashing their knuckles. I've seen injuries to food and people with that method.
So my daily pocket knives aren't getting used for breaking down a turkey. I could in a pinch, but it's not their purpose.
Love you brother!
I agree with you and see your points. I am reminded of a testing / review video of a knife where a guy took a chopper style knife and beat the spine repeatedly against a cinder block till the spine snapped. Then he concluded that it was a piece of crap knife. I remember thinking, "that is a completely invalid test that proves nothing. Who in their right mind would EVER try to whack their blade against a rock or block or something that hard that the knife was never intended to do?" I do think that testing should be rougher than what that blade will do in real life because if it can handle that, then regular stuff should be a piece of cake. If not, then you know where improvements need to be made. However, testing has to be kept in scope of the original design of the blade itself. It's like saying rifles are crap because they can't be concealed, they're too long and awkward for close quarters in and around buildings. Or that handguns are crap because you can't take down a deer or elk at 500 yards with one. It's all about what they're desinged for.
HI Alex. I love your videos and I just wanted to know what you think of the sharpens best sharpeners. I love these sharpeners and stone so I just want to see what you think of them.
Good rant
Nice rant. Totally agree with everything you just said. Wish more people could come to this realization without being schooled. Hopefully this turns on light bulbs out there. P.S. A Mora can do everything!😉
Yes it can, just dont batton with it.😂
The hate comments will keep coming... ignore the people that disagree with your testing methods, do what works for you. Loved this video!
A good example of what us photographers call “Rembrandt” lighting.
Touchy subject for a lot of folks. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, say what you will but some folks just won't understand regardless how you explain it. I gave up ages ago 😄!
Haha 😂 so I can't use one of your beautiful knives stab through a car hood?
@@OUTDOORS55 LMFAO! 🤣🤣🤣
Yes
I am so new to knives and such.. but a few things I have learned recently... a knife is not a knife is not a knife. YOU ARE CORRECT. BAD ASS RANT! Clears up a lot of things for newbies like me. A-I love knives, want them all! B-they completely have a purpose. Like that gentleman below said, if I have a mora filet knife I will use that instead of my Esee PR-4 to clean fish. Again, super new to this “scene”(🤣) but if anything I can pick up a knife and IT will tell me what it’s capable of, make sense? I am weird and feel out the knife. Having said that and new or not, looking at the blade one should be able to tell what tasks can be accomplished with said blade-sometimes knowing who made the knife really helps and knowing how far that knife can be pushed is helpful..because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
Outdoors55 big thumbs up.
Your going to get into trouble by bringing SO much common since to the issue . Great video not really a rant rant's are out of control you were in complete control you know what I mean . The best thing was the verbal slap in the face to all the skeptics and no it all's very well done. HAPPY TRAILS
Makes sense. I can cut boxes and wood all day with my Benchmade. But if I did that with my straight razor it could permanently damage the blade. So I agree, test your knife for it's intended purpose.
Finally someone explaining what's need to be said.
Great rant, making great points. Different knife styles require different tests to get accurate results. In the cases of Steve and Pete's cardboard/ rope testing, they almost exclusively test folding pocket knives, where edge retention is by far the most desired characteristic.
A cardboard test with a bushcraft or survival knife, on the other hand, would be completely useless to me, which is where other knife reviewers/
testers come in.
Solid points. And whether people agree or disagree, I think we can all agree that even though the Lambo may be fast..the Chevy can go anywhere.