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Complete Guide To The Production & Evolution of the Luger P.08 Pistol
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2020
- This is a complete overview of the production and evolution of the Luger P.08 pistol from before WW1 to after WW2. We cover the design choices as they change and the historical context of these iconic guns. Some of the variations covered include the 1900, American Eagle, Navy, Artillery, DWM, Erfurt, Simson, Swiss, Krieghoff, Black Widow, and more!
My dad bought me a 1914 P.08 at my first gun show. He's like, "Don't you want this 1942 one, it's in more mint condition; that cheaper one looks so used."
So I say, "No Dad, this 1914 has the history, it has experienced the purpose for which it was designed and built. It's been in both trenches and blizkriegs and back again."
And I shoot it today, often, and it's more accurate and more smooth than any 1911 or other classics with which I've competed.
Good choice
I also like the WW1 Lugers, always wonder if they were used on eastern or western fronts. Maybe both !
so you wanted the one that Nazis used to murder people. Got it.
I'm going to be picking up my first luger from my grandfather soon.
I was REEEALLLLY into WWII history and my grandfather knew this, he always said he'd pull it out to show me but I dont believe I ever got to see it. Apparently before he died, he told my grandmother that gun was mine once I graduated high school.
I just got my concealed carry license (grandmothers stipulation on getting it) and I'll be talking to her about it soon in order to pick it up. I am very, very excited to see my grandfathers luger, and go down the rabbit hole of which factory made it, who it was issued to, and MAYBE restoring it to working order if it isnt already functional.
This video helped me a lot, I greatly appreciate it.
My dad told me a sad story when I was a kid about how he had a Luger pistol for a short time. Near the end of the war, he happened to to bunking down in a hayloft of a barn in Germany, and felt an uncomfortable lump in the hay. He went to move the lump, and discovered that it was a patent leather holster and belt with a gorgeous Luger inside. He said that the Luger had a chrome or nickeled finish, was extensively engraved, and had ivory grips. He said that he figured that it belonged to some general who hid it in the barn while trying to shed his uniform before trying to escape capture. He said that he was offered lots of money for it, but always refused to sell. One officer in particular kept after him for it, but he wouldn't sell. Dad said that not long after the war ended, some guys were given passes to visit Switzerland, and were hard to get. He said that he was fortunate enough to get the coveted pass, but had to check his pistol and an expensive German camera into the quartermaster's lock up before he could go. He said that he had a great time, but when he got back, his camera and his Luger were mysteriously missing from the lockup. He could never prove anything, but figured that he was given the pass by the greedy officer's finagling so that way the guy could get his hands on the Luger. Dad said after that he made sure that he never had anything but a beater souvenir pistol that no one else would want. When I heard this story as a kid, I was sick at heart as I have always wanted a Luger (someday), and that sounded like the coolest one ever. Dad said that he didn't really remember what the engraving or any of the markings on it looked like and wouldn't know it again if he saw it after all that time. Heavy sigh. Thanks for the great video Thomas, it was awesome.
you can find a picture, if you type in in Google the following:
Pistole 08, graviert, Kaliber 9 mm Parabellum
tritop Thanks. That was a beautiful pistol. Someday I will get one of my own, but unless I win a large lottery I will not get a fancy one. Maybe one from the Lugerman, who crafts them from modern materials....I just love the complexity and the graceful curves. More modern pistols are out there, but there is only one Luger (P-08).
😢
Tom, you're the best ! There aren't many dealers who go so far out of the way to educate customers with their hard earned knowledge like this. I hope that beginning collectors who watch your videos realize how lucky they are to receive this education.
Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement
At 32:20 you show Simson with production nr.1623
My Luger has production nr. 1623m (Finnish contract). What a coincidence!
I purchased a Luger from Legacy and when it showed up I was delighted to find it exactly the way it was presented in the description and exactly what I wanted in a Luger. Thanks for the presentations, all great readings, and a take down presentation of a Luger. So much excitement and I haven't shot it yet! When my son and daughter come from Chicago we will enjoy it together!
I have 3 Lugers, a 1915 DWM, a 1939 Mauser and one of those newer ones Mauser made in the 70's or 80's. Other than the fact that I really like them I know little more than what I just learned. Thanks for the video, I do appreciate them.
Thanks Tom, you knocked it out of the park! Go sit down, relax and have a beer. Can’t wait for the Krieghoff Luger I bought off the site a little over a week ago!
Many years ago I had the honor to see the late Joop Vandekant's Luger collection the man was a true encyclopedia on the subject, a great loss for the Luger collector world.
Oh Heck Yea !! Finally after at least 15 years I got to listen to you put it all together. I had spent a semi-reasonable amount of time years ago, probably less dedicated than I should have been but this video included all of the markings, badges, words, references, names and you name it to all that stuff that I just never had time to put together into a timeline in my limited research. This was pure education to me. Thank you so much. Tomorrow I am going to break out my 2 WWII lugers and watch this entire video again and inspect my "boys" and really know something thanks to you. I'm going to search out your other videos. Thanks again!
Oh... and I thought I would add... that you are talking about the "Halo" around the punch marks on the bottom of the barrel... I'm like really trying to imagine this oval halo reflection shinning back at me encircling the numbers and I just can't see it....then it dawns on me and comes into view... the halo is around each individual stamped number as an off-color halo... it's not a halo that goes around all the numbers as a whole.... geese.. 😂😂😂
What a Beautiful unbelievable collection .........!!!!!!!!!!!
It takes my Breath away looking at it...!!!!!!!!
Excellent historical review. Unbiased wealth of information. I have a 1913 Erfurt, which makes it a pre WW1 and WWII commercial production that out shoots any of my guns, including target 22s. Five shots in one single bullet hole. I will never sell it.
From Tony M. You are using the luger tool upside down. I am grateful to have learned so many things about lugers from you. Please allow me to teach you one. The luger tool has a small lip inside the hole this lip catches behind the magazine thumb button and makes the tool hook onto the button. The screwdriver end points up towards the top of the magazine. This makes the tool extremely easy to use without slipping off and allows you to pull the button all the way to the bottom of the magazine when loading. Your channel is amazing! Thanks for the education.
Thanks for that wonderful video what brings me good memories in mind about my dad’s “Black Widow”. It’s really interesting what you now about these weapons and German history.
Chapeau for that !!!!
I am German and born in the 50th on the countryside and in every house where guns and riffles from the the great war and ww2.
My grandfather had his carbine Mauser 98 from ww1, an uncle had an PPSch-41 and my dad had a „Black widow“ P.08 an a very nice shotgun, all metal parts and barrel decorated by engravings.
It is common in Germany to „shoot“ the new year and at that time it was always done with the riffles at home. Now we do it with pyrotechnic articles.
I remember when I was around 12 or 14 yers old I could stay with father until midnight and he „shoot“ the new year with the shotgun and the 9mm P.08.
I liked the Luger very much and it was fascinating to see the mechanic working of it.
When I was around 14 I have shown a friend these guns. He and another friend of him have stolen my dad’s and others weapons and shoot it in the forest.
Because of the noise, they have been catches by the police. My dad’s Black Widow and the shotgun where lost.
Short time after that we had in Germany the Baader-Meinhoff Group / RAF and from this time on it became more and more difficult to have weapons in Germany. Today even a gas or alarm pistol needs a gun licence and what is hard to get. Government threat us like children.
Nothing to compare with the US. I have worked a year in the US. I know the difference. 😉
Thank you so much for your clear presentation of the history of the Lugers ! Love it and also help me to what to look for , a Nice Luger is on my bucket list .
THANK YOU so much Thomas & everyone from Legacy who worked on this video,
I write this before watching, I have been waiting for this, I reserve my evening and I am turning off my phone so nobody will disturb me from watching this, because for me it is better than a Hollywood movie!
Big thanks again!
It is just over an hour. We will not spoil the ending ! :)
@@LegacyCollectibles I am sure they will live happily ever after and will have a lot of little PPK's :)
Sir, you are right. I was a few minutes in but too many distractions.
You've got that right.... This video is absolutely amazing.
Thank you for all the work on this video and keeping the stock in at your shop. You helped me secure a great 1918 variant that I can own and actually shoot. Thank you
The snail drum was used by sturmtruppen as part of a handy carbine. According to several sources it was very popular and was a practical replcement for the heavy GeW 98 by troops that needed light, easy to handle weapons.
Great video. I have a 1916 DWM with a holster A Fischer Berlin C.2 1930. Was told by the son of the vet he found it laying on the battle field of the Battle of the Bulge. All matching, except the mag.
Hello Tom, I'm Robert Omo, in the SF bay area, I'm new to your show. I have inherited a WW1 Luger from my father In-Law. He was awarded it as a gift from an American General from WW2. This Luger saw action in WW1 and WW2. Apparently it was the property of a German General who was the mayor of Rome during the occupancy. Once the Americans took control of Rome and Italy, this luger was the surrender weapon from the German general in a large ceremony to the American General , General Harry S Johnson. Years later it was a gift from Harry S johnson to my Father in law. Now it is a gift to me. There is a provenance to the luger. I believe as far as I can tell, General Karl Wolff, a Nazi SS office was the owner of this weapon. Ive done all the research I can, but I can't trace serial numbers. I'm hoping you can help. Wolff was the commander of all SS forces in Italy, along with holding the mayorship of Rome, thus when the Americans took control of Rome, this weapon was the surrender weapon, offered by Wolff To General Harry Johnson. Thats the story Ive been told, The gun is beautiful, serial numbers 4970, germany, manufacture DWM. Also, there is the letter N with a crown, along with the letter, small case i, in cursive,, interesting.. my phone number is # 925-284-5977 id appreciate any help in finding more history of this luger, Its also a 7.65 parabellum, 1908 model, no grip safety. wooden bottom on the magazine, wooden grips. I loved your show showing all the history of the Luger up through the years. its january 25th 2021 i'm 65 years old, retired my email is robt9omo@aol.com
Interesting story behind the gun. It sounds like a commercial gun from the 1920's. If the story is true then it was a private purchase gun and perhaps passed down from father to son. Unfortunately there is no way to verify the story as there are no factory records as to where these weapons went. You have to rely on the stories from people who were there and 3rd party verification. Still, even with that kind of evidence any buyer would say "that's not proof.". This is a common problem. I come across this at least a dozen times a month..... Great Vet story but no provenance. Sorry I can be of more help but I have no source for even beginning a search.
This is by far the most concise, useful and practical explanation of Luger's ever.
One of the best firearm history videos on YT. Thanks Tom!
Once again great video Tom, I look forward to them and learning more about WW II handguns. Since I purchased my 1939 S42 Luger from you I have found a 1939 holster and SE 63 Luger tool, and correct SE 63 suffix P spare magazine to complete the rig. Thanks for all of the info, I think I'm hooked!
you are correct that the tool is used as a speed loader, but you were using it upside down. if you look inside the circle on the tool you will see a slight wedge in the bottom that catches on the thumb catch on the magazine. in addition there is a raised area on the left wing of the tool that follows the grove in the magazine to keep everything in line. I love you video's. Keep up the great work. Very entertaining.
Hey thanks... I will try that out. !
Excellent presentation. You are fortunate to be able to find and collect such outstanding firearms. I am so green with envy that cannot handle and examine your collection. Carry on...
WOW, I need a drink after this one but very enjoyable. Thanks you never disappoint.
I kind of went on a German handgun buying spree recently. Got a P.08, C96, P38, PP and M1914. I didn't get any holsters with them unfortunately, because I was more focused on the guns and not the accessories. I still want a PPK; one with brown Bakelite grips and a finger extension. Once that is done I may finally get around to getting holsters for all of them, including a wooden one for my C96. That is, unless I find another gun I want more. I've been looking at those early Lugers... the ones with dish toggles, Swiss crests and grip safety's. Also like the way those artillery's Lugers look, especially when they are nicely polished and have clean walnut grips.
Best video yet, personally I am more of a Walther fan but I do have a 1918 Artlillery and a 39 PO8, really enjoyed this one Tom!!
This is the best educational video for Lugers that I have ever seen; I have learned a lot!!!!
Every time I watch your videos I always wanna look at my collection
My Grandfather walked into a Gun Store in either Newark NJ or East Orange NJ to purchase one in 1913 chambered in Luger 30. Has an N with a crown and is stamped Germany. He was fluent in German, and a US Merchant Marine that happened to be in London when the Lusitania was sunk. He spent a Year in a London Prison as a suspect for this. I have this beauty and I think it maybe was fired 30 times from when he had it and perhaps another 20 times with me. it is the most lovely firing machine ever, simply brilliant.
Very well done! Brilliant overview! Thank you.
Very much appreciated! I really enjoy your videos! Thank you.
Thank you very much for this excellent presentation. Two things to point out. The P in P'08 stands for Pistole, not Parabellum. The second thing is the designation of the Navy Luger is Marinepistole '14. Though it uses the New Model Luger action of the P'08, with the flat toggle grips with no anti-bounce catch, coil mainspring, and no grip safety, it wasn't adopted by the Kaiserliche Marine (German Navy) until 1914.
The official designation of ALL the Navy lugers is Pistole 04, from the year it was adopted. The designation didn't change through the life of the Imperial Navy production. The 1914 designation is a collector invented term for the 1916 and 1917 P.04s. Like the 1906 and 1908 terms used for earlier long frame P.04s. The coil spring was used starting in 1906, the grip safety was eliminated in the third version collector's call 1908s.
Dude, epic! I love the show & tell with so many examples. I learned a lot. Also, quite happy with the artillery version I got from you.
So much information in one video. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Amazing video. I'am a big Parabellum fan and it was very pleasent to watch this. Thanks!
I'm a new student in the world of German Lugers. This video guide was very informative and appreciated. Thank you.
highly informative,in depth and enjoyable its an ergonomic design
that looks `right`thanks for this edifying post,you deserve a coffee
break for sure !
Thanks for another great and very informative video. I have always been a fan of the Luger, no matter what the variation, ect. Arguably, one of the most ergonomically, easy pointing pistols ever conceived. The video is almost like an a/v version of Fred Datig’s book, only better.
Excellent work! Thanks so much.
Rich.
I have a 1920 " coded" luger but it's been struck post manufacture and the " 1920" is the only " date " on it ! But infact the so called "1920" stamp was often a "Reichswehr Übernahme Stempel - meaning existing stocks were selected and proofed for the new Reichswehr after WW1, and received such a stamp. I have often seen this in the case of older weapons having this date stamp, so to clarify, the 1920 is not a date, but infact a code/ stock stamp, & will often appear not straight or offline.
Thank you for this video. I've been avoiding the luger market due to the cost and the crazy variety and cost options. I really came across and American Eagle 1900 that may be available and I feel very comfortable negotiating the deal with the info from this and your Commercial luger video. Thanks again!
This was very interesting... thanks for putting it out there
Tom: mucho thanks for reminding me about the halo artifact. Was able to confirm my 99% G-date is original finish. It's so pristine (matching mag too) that I always wondered how it could have survived with so little wear. Great stuff!
Excellent review! Enjoyed it very much!
Wow, great video. I have 3 lugers, now I need to check them out better. This has been so informative. If I have questions I'll contact you. I don't live far away. Thanks Ed
This was what I was waiting for, awesome!
Wow great presentation I learned a bunch
Very informative Sir ! Now I know what to shopping ..Krieghoff ...Black Widow
Using the tool upside down. If you look there is a lip inside the whole that catches on the top magazine button so the tool doesn't slip off. There are even grooves in the back of the tool that align with ribs on the magazine and help keep it straight and from slipping off.
Thanks. Figured that out recently as a tip from another viewer
@@LegacyCollectibles I bought my first Luger from you guys and I've been hooked since. Keep up with the great videos!
Is there anybody stamping that tool today? For sale?
Gracias por compartir sus conocimientos señor Tom
Wow that was a great informative viedo.
Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge.
Very cool!
Excellent video. Thank you
Excellent job! Thanks.
Had a great day got a never fired in the box colt python and a 1918 luger with the crown markings. All matching wood floor plate matching mag
Excellent info.... great Luger wisdom to be learned here. Kudos!
Very good review. Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot. I'm just working on the Luger video...
A Luger Encyclopedia video.. Thanks for your excellent effort and a beautiful presentation...
these videos are addictive. watched the krieghoff and commercial videos , now this - next black widow. Tom, i will be calling when its bonus time to get a luger -
Thanks for the great video!
Great perspective and thorough knowledge, I think the history is what makes the firearms, now looking for a Simpson P08.
Very informative. Great stuff.
Awesome video. Thank you!
I know inrange TV did a mudtest with replica made luger, and it performed very well! Might be worth watching.
Took me awhile to get to this one but very well done 👍!
Great Video! Definitely a detailed explanation!!!👍
Wonderful video!!
I have a numbers matching 1900 DWM American Eagle (S/N 7845) WITHOUT the "GERMANY" commercial marking. It also has the lockback feature on an empty mag. This group of features has me perplexed.
This gun was refinished by JV Martz, and has a "JVM" inside an oval on the frame (behind the side plate).
Great vid! Learned a lot. When you get a chance can you please consider doing something on the Mauser C-96 Broomhandle and also the "Red 9" variant. thx much
The yellowing of the white stuff actually looks good. Looks like gold
That's called Straw bluing on the trigger and the levers. It's the original finish in a yellow straw color.
@@ericlawson9404 I believe he was referring to the grease pencil fill used to highlight stampings such as 'Geladen'.
tom what can i say ........ brilliant keep them coming
Wonderful Video!! Thank you!!
I have learned that I own a PX Luger. Many thanks for the info!
Great video, i just inherited a 1916 DWM with a mag that looks like it must be early WW2. Ive been told i also have the original holster but after watching this video im skeptical. Thanks for the video cant wait to dive deeper down tge lugar rabbit hole.
Great information - thank you 👍
Love my Lugar, I have a DWM 1921 commercial my first gun in 30 cal. Today that ammo is easier to find than 9mm.
I am your subscriber on youtube and enjoy watching videos in which you talk about some of the most interesting facts about iconic weapons and first of all, I want to thank you for your videos, but the main reason why I am writing to you is Luger P08, my grate grandfather brought one of P08 from WW2 and kept it in the basement for almost 50 years and just a few years ago, on my 18th birthday, he gifted it to me.
Now I have a few questions about the gun and I would really appreciate your expertise on the subject. So my P08 is a standard 1906 model I guess, but it says that it was made in 1914 and I learned how to disassemble and assemble it right away and I checked and all the part numbers are the same, 46 it says everywhere, but it also has some symbols on the top of the barrel and some others on the side as well. I have been trying to identify those symbols but unfortunately, I came up with nothing but more curiosity. maybe you will be able to tell me more about those symbols. what do they stand for, I am sure they have some meaning and reason to be drawn on the pistol.
And I have one more question, I might sound crazy but I wonder besides the barrel length if there is any difference between standard P08 and LP08? I mean, is it possible to change the barrel on standard P08 and assemble it as LP08?
P-08 STANDS
for PISTOLE - 08
(1908), NOT
"Parabellum".!!
Actually, to be precise, the
"Parabellum" designs THE CALIBER. (9X19 mm).
Thanks for the good video.
Para bellum is Latin for "prepare for war
As far as I know, 'Parabellum' was the very first Marketing term in 1899 already, planned for the release of the pistol in 1900.
The pistol and the ammo , designed by Georg Luger in 7.65 mm Parabellum and then later on also in 9 mm Parabellum , was dedicated to the Roman-Latin quote: "si vis pacem parabellum" = "If you want peace, prepare for war." = "Wenn Du den Frieden willst, bereite den Krieg vor."
Seems having been quite a smart move by DWM (not sure whether it still was Ludwig Loewe Engineering before they renamed it to DWM = Deutsche Waffen - und Munitionsfabrik) to name it in reference to this famous Roman quote, when people still were rather quite much more educated, than people are today.
Nobody called them Luger in Germany. They were called “Null Acht” (zero eight) as short form for Pistole 08, introduced in 1908.
Great videos Tom ! You should do a vid on your own collection!
It is a byf with the 41 stamp and all numbers on both sets match
excellent video!
Glad I found this video. Highly informative.
I'd be grateful if some knows where to buy p08's in Europe.
When I was in my early 20's I bought a 1942/43 Mauser P-08 at a fishing/tackle store for $50. No matching serial numbers. According to serial number it was assembled from parts and had the improved toggle link. 42/43 was stamped on the toggle link. Great shooter, later sold it for $75. Boy, was I stupid! smh
This is literally a dream come true
VERY NICE, but I would consider your collection incomplete without the RED 9 Broom-handle.
Got a couple. Will do a separate video on the Brooms
The snail mag and luger combination was used by the first german “special forces” troops
The storm troopers used to storm the enemy trenches
The 1898 mauser rifle was too long and unwieldy for this special mission
Great Video !! Thanks from Sweden :-)
I have a 1916 P.08. At one point it was shipped to the United States and it has a "Made in Germany" stamp on the receiver. I read somewhere about the requirement to add the country of origin stamp on the gun, but don't remember all the particulars. Its a good shooter and still accurate. Other than being a luger, probably not much collectors value due to wear on bluing and it looks as if someone varnished the wood grips.
Awesome video!!! Thank you!
Just one little remark, P08 stands for "Pistole 08" and not "Parabellum 08". Just like MG42 (MachinenGewehr 42), MP40 (MachinenPistole 40), K98 (Karabiner 98) and G43 (Gewehr 43). But all the rest, awesome!!!! Thanks again!
Ronson, Zippo, or charcoal lighter fluids will dissolve that white grease pencil stuff much quicker than oil. It’s nothing more than clean white Naptha and won’t harm any finish in any way. I use it for all kinds of parts cleaner on all sorts of things, especially gun parts for many years. I am new to your channel, subscribed the other day, and absolutely love it. I fear it’s going to cost me some money before it’s over.
Thanks for this video bos.
I thought the accepted range of AE test Lugers was about 6200 to 7100. Yours is in the 7500 range. I only ask because I have one in the 7700 range with test features, which I assumed was a fluke as it did not fit in the known SN range. Thanks for the video!
What a great video!
I must agree with Redcat94, Tom is as much of a treasure as the information he reads up on and condenses to us novices. Based on his so called "broad stroke" of this video I was able to glean answers to questions I had about the markings on what a very good pal of mine sold to me with no begging at all. What a guy. Probably a bring back because when we did the legal transfer the shop said my buddy is the only owner of record, and he is too young to have been in the conflict.
Looks like a "byf" toggle stamp with a "42" chamber mark, straight wing "135" Military proofs, wood grips and all matching numbers except the magazine. Evidently it's a Mauser. Damn near a Black Widow. So I'm pretty happy with my chunk of genuine History. Thanks Tom for edumacating me.
Love this episode
great video
@Thomas Whiteman, In 1937, they switched from rust blue to salt blue.
amazing channel keep up
WOW! What a fantastic presentation! Thank you very much.
I noticed at 43:24 "Schmeisser Patent" was stamped on the magazine. I only noticed it on the one mag. Would it be possible to explain the significance (or insignificance) of this, please.
A terrific channel. Thank you, from across the pond.
Schmeisser make some really good Luger magazines. So did Haenel and Sauer. But the Schmeisser mags seen a bit stronger. I guess the design was patented by them. Also favored by the Police. Better quality
The luger on video has number 37 and magazine "Schmeisser patent". I have luger 37 and magazine "Schmeisser patent" 😀😀😀