Echo: "These... New Troopers. What do you mean our "replacements?" Gregor: "Well we Clones are soldiers of the Republic that doesn't exist. These recruits come from all over the galaxy and swear loyalty to the Empire. They're not as skilled but there's an endless supply of them." Hunter: "Numbers aren't everything."
@@CaptainHowzer325 in the Vietnam war the better soldiers and better armed military’s did not win it was who had the most bodies to throw at the problem you can also consider WW2 being the same. Numbers in almost every military encounter are everything when they do not matter that’s the exception to the rule.
Where does it say the clones would get "shot" after finishing their job? I think we're assuming "phase out" means "kill" but that would be an absurd waste of imperial resources. It's not like the commandos can't be trusted to keep a secret; they've been doing covert operations their entire lives.
it's the inconsistencies with Fioni's dumb storytelling. If you read the Clone Commando novels you can see how the guys transitioned and carried out covert ops against Jedi exiles, partisans, etc. The old Clone Commandoes explained in the legends are far more interesting than the crap Filoni gave the public. He basically made the Clones sabotage the Empire from the beginning, thus making their mission very predictable, boring, and the list goes on.
In some of the Canon. Many clones were phased out and given land, places to settle. Many clones went on to be bounty hunters, guards, and administration across the galaxy. Clones age very quickly and very few were genetically modified to live longer. So they were phased out very quickly in our human standards. In Canon and I think legends many of these clones would continue to serve as soldiers. Just that many of these battles diminished their numbers too greatly and there were no fresh supply of them. Save the 501st legion aka Vader's Fist
ARCs have too much free will. Clone commandos had a nice mix of the obedience of the regs and the skill of the ARCs, making them perfect as instructors.
By the end of the clone wars, the oldest clones were 26 years old, in clone years. I know that’s pretty young to have the following mindset (unless you have kids,) but when you’re a career focused individual in your middle ages, you start to feel the desire to leave some kind of legacy behind, demonstrating that your life’s work meant something, and will live on through future generations.
Palpatine: Join the dark side. We have cookies. Random Imperial Officer: M- My Lord, We- We've run out of cookies Palpatine: It's treason then *Force Lightning*
Great video, but I don’t think replacing/phasing-out of clones means immediate execution as some suggest. It should either be instant retirement at worst or somewhat gradual changing of the clone to non-clone ratio due to the fact that no more clones are being made. I’m hoping for the latter, because unless something like a clone rebellion gives the empire a reason to expel all the remaining able-bodied clones, it would be an uncalled for waste of soldiers.
Firstly, there was a rebellion of clones troopers, two in fact. One large scale rebellion on Kamino and another attempt on the emperor. I commented this above somewhere. But clones age very quickly. Many went on to work other jobs across the galaxy and battles quickly diminished their number. With the highest concentration of clones being incorporated into Vader 's fist
@@Luke41461 I was thinking the same thing when it came to the clone wars depleting their numbers to the point that they would soon become a drop in the ocean of stormtroopers. I hope what you say is true, because it fits nicely.
I appreciate that they went with the idea that the chips were influencers not erasers. Gives some credit to the 501st Journal saying they had traitorous thoughts but followed orders anyways.
*after knocking out the Stormtroopers* Hunter: "I thought you said you trained these guys." Gregor: "I didn't teach them *everything.* I wouldn't be very smart now, would it?"
There is a possibility that some or all of the commandos are sneakily fudging the TK training to make it so they're not as efficient as the clones and the apparent zeal they have for this job is a cover for how they really feel... As Geetsly said, they're smarter than the average clone and due to Gregor's mental state there may be a plan they've not filled him in on
It's sad to see Clones(the Commandos) who were much more independent reduced to this. They use to have so much independence and free thoughts, and now there just mindless drones, like the Droids they use to fight. That analogy works as with the training of the TKs it's basically the same as a droid building a new model that will replace them and send them to the scrap heap. You'd think if the Commandos knew they were going to be replaced they'd rebel. Ironically enough, Crosshair in the original version of the episodes of The Clone Wars that introduced the Bad Batch that were released in post animation years ago said it best as to why they would rebel, "I know I wouldn't be too loyal if I was left for dead." I'm pretty sure most people draw the line when the people there loyal to try to kill them or leave them to die. The fate of these Clones is sad. Hopefully, Gregor can at least convince some other Commandos that they are smarter and better than this evil Empire and get them to rebel. The only question for the Clone Rebellion is who will get the pleasure of killing that bastard Ramphart for what he did to Kamino.
It would be nice if at least one member of Delta Squad was smart enough to see the evil of the Empire and choose to do the right thing. It would actually be ironic if it was Sev, since he's basically the Crosshair of this team. Although, he was, left for dead so there is incentive there to join the Rebellion
@@The7thFleet I mean to be fair, nothing I've seen in the new canon just yet contradicts the events of the game, so as far as I'm concerned they can still fit in continuity for now.
@@The7thFleet Its not canon yet Delta squad is featured in Clone wars and everything developed in the game relating to commandos has been implemented in canon, including their look, technology and weapons ect. Including things that should have been changed in Canon, like their squad formation, the idea that a Commando unit would have just 4 members makes sense in a tactical video game or RPG for obvious reasons i.e its hard to micro-manage large groups of characters in a first/3rd person video game. But in canon, a commando squad should have at least 12-36 members, but instead we got 4 members per squad with 10,000 members in total to fight in a galactic war that spans hundreds of worlds against billions of battle droids? LOL. Then again the dynamics of war in "Star wars" in general, has never made any sense. Fighting a galactic war on entire worlds, not cities vs billions of mass-produced Battle droids and George Lucas decided that this line makes sense "200,000 units are ready with another million on the way" - Prime minister of Kamino. In Ww2 the Germans deployed 3 million just to take over Russia lol. But you're telling me 200,000-1mil clones are supposed to stop billions of droids, while fighting on a 100 worlds simultaneously? Where do these Star Wars writers have their heads? These Writers don't seem to understand the concept of a type 3 galactic civilization fighting a galaxy-wide war, there should be 10s of millions of clones. We saw the same stupidity in the Sequal trilogy, the "resistance" amounted to a small fleet, that could barely defend a city and the first order managed to "destroy" the new republic which has thousands of worlds and vast territories by just destroying 5 worlds? LOL. Lets not forget the stupid story of Battlefront 2 EA, where the empire created inferno squad, to stop a galaxy-wide rebellion from blowing up the second death star and it turns out that inferno squad isn't an entire legion of elite troopers with their own capable fleet no, its 4 soldiers with painted light pilot armor, lol so 4 soldiers in light armor are supposed to stop 10s of millions of rebels and thousands of rebel ships from destroying the second death star? LOL ok.
well for the clones theres no difference to being enslaved to the republic or being enslaved to the empire. if they hadnt deserted (or had plans to desert) they were loyal to their masters, and why should ranks of them leave after the empire came to power?
What I really liked about Crosshair’s reasons for supporting the Galactic Empire is because they are perfectly legitimate, understandable reasons. He was tired of fighting a galactic war. He simply wanted order and peace.
Empire: We're gonna replace you. Commando's: ... Empire: And you're gonna train your replacements, if you don't we'll imprison you then execute you. Commando's: Sounds sick bro.
I wish Star Wars RUclipsrs would just stop trying to find justifications for the stupid decisions made by the people currently in charge of Star Wars canon, once again, Legends handled it better, like with almost everything else.
Great video. I don't see any reason to believe the Clone Commandos would have been shot after training the first groups of Stormtroopers. They clearly offered tremendous value to the Empire as trainers for the next group of Stormtroopers and reliable operatives for future covert Ops. Clones had short lifespans, so it would have been necessary and understandable to have a replacement program. So they wouldn't have been acting against their own interests. I do agree with you that the ones who agreeed to become trainers probably believed in the Empire, like Crosshair.
I could see Delta Squad working for the empire. Fixer was pragmatic to a fault and Boss and Scorch would still be frustrated and resentful after being ordered by the Jedi to leave Sev behind like that.
Your talking about the same empire who obliterated a core world, to make a point and legitimize the rebellion as a consequence. Or as a big F-U to the remnants of the empire, attempted to scorched earthed their remaining loyalist world's. Hobbling themselves for meaningless reasons is what imperials do.
@@steelrexer1062 and they had bad reasons to remove clones as well, most of the clones have served a jedi general, their loyalties have been questioned, for dubious reasons of course, they wanted cheaper soldiers, the list goes on. Many of these reasons are arguably not reasonable but the empire does it anyway.
I assumed it was something to do with the inhibitor chips. In the Bad Batch, the clones were meaner post Order 66. I know that they aren't mindless robots but the inhibitor chips were a powerful influence. Rebellious clones like Rex before his chip was removed had stronger resistance to the biological programming in the chips.
Going purely by canon since Legends didn’t have chips. In canon the chips ultra intensified their obedient instincts. Think of it like an addiction. It became an addiction to follow order and complete the mission. Doing things that contradicted it would actually mentally hurt them. However that only ensures they follow the order, not how enthusiastic they were to follow it or how they personally felt about them. And over time the chips effects and influence began gradually fading. Giving clones more and more room to go against orders until eventually the chip had little to no influence over them. This is noted with Captain Howzer where by this point, most of the effects of the chips were gone and probably just served more as a coping thought rather than a controller. Basically just whispering in ur head that ur doing the right thing. I hope that answers ur questions
For the said Clone's TRUE love... Flipping space burgers, and selling porg dogs at the intergalactic drive thru.. which can't happen if the next generation of soldiers isn't ready
But why would the empire kill the commandos or any clone in general? They were the best possible slaves, genetically created to be submissive. They changed perfect soldiers and slaves for regular people? How does that make any sense?
Dave Filoni created the worst plot device with inhibitor chips to make the clones very similar to battledroids. No chip means no loyalty so it takes away from the sense of duty those guys had in the prequels.
@@eddieram435 It doesn't. I think you didn't understand my question. My question is not how the empire forced them. My question is WHY. Precisely because of that chip, they were PERFECT for a tyrannical empire. Let's say you need to annihilate a bunch of planets and commit the most terrible genocide ever. Who would you send to get it done? That regular guy who comes from another planet not too far from there, or a clone, created to obey, trained to be precise and deadly since he was born, and with an organic chip that induces him to submit and obey you? Who? Exactly.
@@Alfonso88279 the blowing planets excuse always comes...If I recall, Commie George Lucas once compared that scummy rebel alliance to the infamous Vietcong battling the US forces during the Vietnam war. The Republic created the Empire because of it's liberal policies that rotted the foundation of the Republic Constitution. Both the Jedi and the Republic's decrepit and draconian ways gave way to the Empire. The New Republic had their chance as well and failed miserably at every level of government as explained by the Client in the Mandalorian series. Such liberal policies and the lazy excuse of government and the popular vote to shift power away from Imperial Center gave way to the creation of the First Order. Again, the liberal policies of the New Republic gave way to facism because the Galaxy was left abandoned by the ruling majority of the New Republic. Filoni's dumb plot device removes the sense of loyalty of the clones as explained in the prequels, only to make them cardboard copies of the Battledroids used by the CIS that need programming in order to fight😒😒. What a terrible storyline as shown in the Clone Wars tv series. Also, look at the terrorist Saw Guerera and his partisans which are also responsible for as many losses both civilian and military casualties...Gets pass because Star Wars is black and white and we are not allowed yo judge the rebels. Even the princess of Alderaan was also exonerated from her position as senator because the the New Republic found out she is the living descendant of Lord Vader. There is no excuse to pardon Filoni for creating so many inconsistencies with the Clones because they are loyal and a sense of duty, not a random piece of a motherboard put into their brains.
Clone commandos are pretty intelligent. When they disobey orders, it's to modify the plan to make the overlying goal more attainable. The commandos would most likely have known the probability of of escaping the empire for an extended duration unlikely and as a sense of sense of self preservation, played the loyalist because they know deep down any crack on that image could mean instant termination and they know it. It should be noted from republic to empire and the values they entail is both drastic and dramatic and commandos who are trained to be sensitive to swift changes on the battlefield would be painfully aware about what is going to happen next. The imperial military leadership already made their feelings about clones abundantly clear. Their only and best option is to play the long game. If any, if not all are against these changes, they would treat it like a deep cover operation and remain undetected for as long as possible until either they are released from service or are forced to use all available avenues to escape. Training the storm troopers is most likely keep your friends close and your enemies closer situation. The only people they can trust the most is other clone commandos, and Training the storm troopers is the perfect way to monitor their capabilities and patterns as they are the ones arranging it. If the imperial leadership tries to dispose of them, they are in a good position out maneuver the troopers. And if they maintained the poker face, no one would be the wiser of the emergency assets they prepared.
I wouldn’t be so quick to throw away the inhibitor chips. We saw with Crosshair that they can intensify the effect of the chips. It is safe to assume that Empire also intensified the chips of the Commandos
I would like to think that not ALL of the Clone Commandos stayed behind and trained Stormtroopers. I'd really like to see more Rogue Commandos like the Bad Batch and Gregor
I'm of the opinion that the main thing is diversification being the thing they saw it as. Rather than a "these are your replacements," the clones were being phased out at that point. Clones being expended and with the entire mess with Kamino, a lot of them believing that the Kaminoans betrayed them because that's what they would have been told there. Add that to the "Jedi Betrayal" at the end of the Clone Wars, meaning that several Clones might be a bit less into things at that point. You might also still have the various issues with the Spaarti clones that the Republic had been supplementing the Kaminoan ones with as in Legends where they were, largely inferior to the Kaminoan ones and had an even shorter lifespan. Then you have the lifespan issues the clones would be suffering soon, so most of the Commandos would know they were nearing the end anyway, and you don't need to be in your prime to pass on that knowledge...which combines well with things that I remembered from Legends with several Clones that were extremely capable being happy to be recalled to Kamino to aid in training their brothers due to knowing the enemy tactics and other things to make the later waves of clones more capable right from the start with fewer things needed to be picked up in the field. Plus the Commando's and ARC Troopers would be the best of the best there, probably mixed in with several pilots and officers that would have the same kind of thing and skill set, they're ensuring the Empire's troops are as good as they can get there. Meanwhile, the Empire isn't, normally, going to just be shooting the clones they have unless there are other issues with those particular clones. You would have various forces in the Empire that still preferred the clones in Legends, meaning there probably would still be some in Disney stuff...such as Vader's Fist and others that would be mixed. It's just that the Clones aren't being replaced with Clones, and they're hitting the point where they're physically starting to have issues. They're being expended in the field, given more dangerous tasks with fewer survivors.
I'd guess that they had no expectation of a retirement. Viewing being a drill sergeant as a job that would get them to their accelerated old age while molding an army of normal aging soldiers. They would have known that there were millions left to train, and no value in getting rid of them while there were so many left to train.
It would be a risky ploy, even for the empire, there are millions of clones still in service at this point and one mistake and that would lead to mayhem. They can eliminate individual dissidents without raising too many eyebrows but wiping out entire units would be noticed really quick even with censorship. The smart thing is keep them busy until they hit their expiration date or are too invested in the empire to be an insurgent.
The regs also had the same driven original aspirations as the commandos and they too were taught throughout their lives of being expected to give their lives for the cause. And yet, there were more in their ranks who decided to leave their service to the Empire, which to whom the regs did not give their oaths of allegiance to. If the commandos were stronger independent thinkers than the regs there should have been greater questioning from the commandos. There has to be something more to their motivations to serve the Empire other then just that it somehow gives them purpose as being soldiers. A commando can be a commando in other areas than just the Empire. To me it seems like the commandos were loyal to the Empire for reasons other than it just gives them a continuous sense of purpose. It seems like to me the inhibitor chips were preaching orders to the choir. They would have gladly carried out order 66 completely on their own initiative. Most of them in their years of hardcore warfare experiences may have saw the Empire in an ideological perspective.
Training your replacements isn't that inconceivable when you're going to be retiring in less than 10 years. By the time the TKs fully replaced the clones, most clones would be of retirement age, and the commandos are no exception. So they took the job to get paid well, so they can build up for their retirement.
Could be right, we don’t get to see much of the commandos in canon, other than Gregor, Delta Squad and the Bad Batch. Arc troopers were more independent minded clones so I could see them rebelling from the empire but commandos were independent thinkers that were still obedient to their supreme authority, the republic-turned-empire. This is why we need a sequel to Republic Commando the video game. So many questions!
Arguably, it was a good choice. If history is anything to go by, this is an almost war winning decision. The Axis in WWII had a decisively greater number of high scoring Tank and Plane aces. Partly this was to do with having tactical advantages in their equipment, but the major creditor to their successes was due to experience. Once they'd gotten lucky enough to learn their vehicles, they could proceed to exercise their known advantages ad infinitum. This is how you see aces with the likes of hundreds of claimed kills, feats which the Allies never had. However, much of that was due to a deliberate choice in training. The US and UK would take notice if any of their pilots and tank crews pulled off considerable success and have them pulled back to train new recruits how to win. This did mean they moved experienced personnel off the lines, however this also greatly increased the average ability of US and UK soldiers. By the mid to late war, from early 1944 and onwards, the difference in trained ability between Allied and Axis crews proved to be a very decisive advantage. Sherman crews at a disadvantage in AT firepower and armor proved to be as capable and effective as their better equipped German contemporaries. They were trained to learn to take engagements more carefully to maximize the potential of their smaller tanks. Allied pilots dominated the skies over France and Germany, but the Pacific especially exemplified the colossal difference in kills that training granted the USN's Hellcats and Corsairs. Germany meanwhile continued to have their high scoring aces, however the average ability of their common personnel plummeted. Their defense of France was utterly crushed at breakneck pace despite having considerable advantages in terrain and equipment. In the Pacific, Japanese aircrews became utterly helpless to fight Allied aviation. A fact which culminated in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, a battle which was so vastly in the USN's favor that they likened it to a sporting event. There were more factors to this, but training was a significant factor that won WWII. The Empire choosing to use their limited supply of veterans to train their next generation of soldiers is a wise investment, especially considering that poor unit adaptability was a major contributor to the Separatist's defeat. It didn't matter that there could be 10 droids for every clone, eventually someone was going to learn how to scrap 15 and teach others how to do the same.
I get your point, but on a pound for pound basis, the Germans still performed the best until the final few months. Throughout the Normandy campaign the US needed a 2:1 advantage to beat the Germans. It took the allies 4 times longer to liberate France than it took for Germany to conquer it. Look up the KD ratio of axis to allied. Germans had an average of 12:1 KD on the eastern front and 2:1 on west until the last 6 months
One thing people always overlook in the Clones better than Storms argument is the environment both were bred in . Think about it, the Clones were bred, trained and then forced into the front lines of a war against massive never ending waves of droids, any clones that survived and lived long in the war were all battle hardened and experienced as they were fighting a force that was equal and alot of times in greater numbers than them. Storms on the other hand, by the time of the OT, were used to just patrolling planets and cities and fighting small rebel groups. Rebels were small and only fought skirmishes and ambushes which meant they were always on the disadvantage against Storms and all the Storms would have to do is outlast the attack and repel them. Sure, a Stormtrooper can be a skilled soldier but years of just scaring off Rebels and mostly patrolling and maintaining the territories held by the Empire really dulls your skills and without a real actual war, you're bound to get rusty. TLDR: Clones had to evolve and remain sharp to survive in a galaxy wide war. Storms despite being trained to be the best had very little real threats to deal for the need to become better soldiers.
Storm trooper training is inconsistent as not many planets could afford the same type of luxuries that other planets may offer in terms of training. Since the quality of said facility being dependent on the economy of the planet its stationed on. Another issue is that Storm troopers lack maintained firing practice and drilling. This is weird considering that Storm troopers are soldiers, yet the Empire overlooked the most key important aspect of keeping a dormant military force constantly prepared. Lastly, Storm troopers aren't to repel rebel forces, they're to exterminate them. If the standards are that low, that one must simply survive. That's an Empire that isn't gonna last. So what it boils down to, the Empire is clueless. They make the worst decisions.
That thumbnail is gold, I can just imagine that commando screaming his lungs out, yelling “C’MON CADET, MOVE YOUR A**, I’VE SEEN FETUSES DO BETTER PUSH-UPS, YOU’RE AT ZERO AND YOU HAVEN’T DONE A SINGLE ONE RIGHT!” That thought scares me.
There's one more thing that i see a lot left out--lifespan. Clone troopers age much, much faster than regular humans. I mean just look at Rex. He was hardly 10 chronologically if i remember correctly, maybe 15 at oldest, when the war ended. Yet about 15 years later into Rebels, he looks like he's 50, despite definitely being no older than 30. People, in one way or another, would be compelled to want their actions to have mattered when they lived (whether they'd strive to do so is another thing altogether), & i don't think that clones are any different in that regard. Given that clones are brought up & socialized around their own most of the time, hardly having any contact with civilians & actively discouraged from politics, morality ain't half as important as getting their jobs done right, just like how you put it, republic or empire, it's all the same to them. With all of that said, there're mainly 2 ways that i see that they could leave a legacy behind: continue to serve the 'continuation' of the republic, or escape & rebel. The latter, apparently, involves having moral awareness that most couldn't care less about, while the former, at least allows them to serve their intended purpose & hey, it's not like they know for sure that they'd get gunned down at the end of it all. Even if they think that it's entirely possible for the empire to just cast them aside as trash by then, they'd probably figure that they'd get too old & frail to be worth getting shot at anyway.
I remember someone mentioning the Clones had accelerated aging from birth to adulthood, once they reach age of full development, they are given specific hormones/chemicals to slow aging to normal. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was another form of control to keep Clones from being too much problem if they end up going rogue like Rex did. Imagine if he had normal lifespan, he would have live long enough to meet Luke.
@@TheGary108 There's a fan theory where Rex was at the Battle of Endor. There's some images of an older dude with a white beard, just an extra but the theory fits
I figured if the empire did kill them they didn't come out and say that's what was in store for them. They were told to train more troops,which would look like a fairly easy job. The empire hadn't committed too many atrocities by then so it's not like they'd expect a genocide. Most of them probably bought in propaganda about order 66 which would have been the worst thing the empire was known to do at that point. Tucked away at a remote base they be oblivious to what was going on around the galaxy. Doing their jobs until the empire got what it wanted from them. A sad way for some of the best soldiers the galaxy had ever seen to go out. In my head cannon every single one of them denied a blindfold.
I'm wondering what would happen if these events happen before, during or at the end of the Clone Wars, how will the galaxy handle with it. 1) What if the Sith Empire invaded the galaxy during the Clone Wars? 2) What if the Eternal Empire invaded the galaxy during or at the end of the Clone Wars? 3) What if the Galactic Empire was already formed in secret by Palpatine before the Clone Wars?
Well all these empires are mostly dead. And if they are beyond the outer rim they have more to contest with than the galactic empire. As in canon. There are confimed existences of other very powerful species, that are ruthless.
@@Luke41461 I know, i'd was thinking if a small renment group of the Sith Empire and the Eternal Empire that survived and was hidden from the rest of the galaxy and build-up their armies and fleets, same way the Sith Empire did in the Old Republic game and the First Order did in cannon. Also I'd somewhat know that are other powerful and ruthless species out there like the Vuuzhan Vong. I was just curious that's it.
@@loganwhitney8471 i think if any of these empires existed, either independently or under the sith emperor. They have a high likelihood of wiping out the empire. Due to the fact that both of the ones you listed have high amounts of force sensitive soldiers. Hell I could see old Mandalore winning against the empire. Cannon wise? This period is like a time where technology is stagnating as well. So any of these other empires have a good chance. Except plot armor.
@@Luke41461 I agree, the empire would have a hell of a problem cause their not fighting rebels but a full on military force with like you said a lot of force sensitive soldiers. And the old Mandalore I'd can see that being a huge pain for the empire. Now the big question is, would Palpatine know about it and keep it a secret or would he have no idea about them until it's too late?
@@loganwhitney8471 he would most likely know. Because the sith empire and the eternal have so many force sensitive. That all of them moving against the empire with one purpose would create a ripple in the force.mandalore is another thing though. I think he would scheme to prevent it from reaching public knowledge. In Canon the empire had its own forces of force sensitive. Maybe deploy them to assassinate and distract until he solved the rebel issue? But at the same time. External threats can unite the galaxy. Tbh even then he couldn't stop the old powers.
I still don't understand why Palpatine would trust the commandos to train his new "stormtroopers" when he and most of the GAR didn't trust them due to their ability to think for themselves and strong attachment to their mandalorian heritage now if he had ARC troopers training them that'd make alot more sense cone on disney...cool episode still
I think it was more of over the course of the war they've gotten older and reached that point in a military career where you're the trainer now preparing the next generation to fight and that it's no longer their turn.
Honestly the best take was the original clone wars canon (now legends) Clones are bred to follow orders. They're told to serve the republic, they serve the republic. The republic is reorganized into an Empire? Doesn't change a thing, they continue to serve. The empire decides to expand the Stormtrooper Corp with non-jango clones and natural born recruits and orders the original troopers to train them, good soldiers follow orders. And follow orders they did, enforcing the new order and dying alongside their replacements on numerous battlefields including the Death Star, Hoth, Endor etc.
Looking at their Stromtrooper replacements made me think that they subtly yet actively made them incompetent outside of open warfare. Gurrila warfare? None compared to the Commandos. That's my theroy.
I think they lost their personalities due to the inhibitor chips and by this point are just Droids Shown by Scotch being super badass and not cracking any jokes on the Bad Batch Gregor was different because he actually had amnesia
As shown multiple times the chips don’t wipe a personality. They can alter perception but the clones are still very much who they are. This is especially noted within Warmantle where by then. Chips effects were wearing off and as such clones now did have the capacity to make their own choices. Most clone Commandos just never had reason to go against the Empire. Or hell even clones in general
Yeah doesnt really make sense to me, especially when all the stromtroopers we see turn out to be extremely stupid unless the commandos intentionally trained them wrong but I doubt it. I feel like it was just Filoni not really knowing how to implement the commandos into the bad batch show properly, he kinda just dropped them in there as generic bad guys.
Clones advantage:loyal and expendable Disadvantage: Expensive to create and it takes some time Stormtrooper advantage: cheap and expendable and fast to get. Usually loyal because of propaganda and brainwashing Stormtrooper disadvantage: Finn
Render themselves obselete..? Forgotten..? The Commando's training new recruits is passing the torch. Its a old wizend worker showing a new person how the trade works. And these commando's trained the stormtroopers because they felt that they would be judged to for what they left behind. Most Commando's would be damned if the superb capabillity and reputation that made The Grand Army of the Republic such a formidable fighting force go to waste. They did not suffer trough training and the clone wars to let it all die without putting up a fight. Anny fight. So they fought to train the stormtrooper corps to the best way they knew how, so the spirit of the army that went before them, would not, and could not die. They never lost. They went out fighting, or doing what they loved best. They fought a spiritual battle, for every clone that marched of Kamino. In that last assignment. They completed their orders. The last order given to a Clone trooper, and they walked away with victory. Mission accomplished. Duty done. No trooper, could ever ask for better.
Id Like to point out that they may aswell wouldve wanted the clone program to end because of the hells they went through and because they didnt want the destiny for future clones.
I’d say they were loyal because they wanted the mission of unity and peace to succeed no matter the cost, they wanted the empire to be as strong as possible so any insurrection could be immediately eliminated, only ones who’ve seen the brutality of war would understand and want to avoid any chance of civil war because it would just destroy the galaxy further, I mean look at where the rebel victory led? It just made more fighting and got more planets destroyed
This video is cool and all, but the line "it wasn't the inhibitor chips, it didn't create mindless drones" yet we saw at the end of CW S7 that Rex resisted briefly but basically did become a mindless drone who attempted to kill his friend he LITERALLY fought to protect not 10 seconds prior. So we know that maybe the chips did contribute more to this than first thought... especially when we think about problems regarding the rebel like nature a commando/arc trooper often showed. Edit: also you said only 1 commando successfully rebelled and left the Empire, what about the Skirata clan? Or is that because it's Legends?
They probably took training the tk like any mission. Until the bad batch showed up and caused the trainees to accurately shot them. Then they decided to meet minimum mission requirements just not to get shot.
can you do a lore video of the events that take place between Kotor and swtor? I want to know how the true sith fell from their brutal origins, as I think that they did exist with tenebrae, but fell apart after a while as he began to grow distant, and thus we have the empire from swtor, I'd like to know your thoughts, as well as your beliefs of whether or not the KOTOR reboot might make the third game, with more lore that explains what happened
Couldn't agree more... consequences for leaving were the empire felt by the bad batch. They used to be elite soldiers, but they wre just bounty hunters now.
Maybe they wanted to leave some kind of legacy behind? After all, they had no chance of a family or at least they would be smart enough to figure it would be a life eternally on the run. Maybe they figured they were getting themselves are loyal Brach of the new imperial military that would hopefully remember them and help them if nessary?
Cross hair's chip was not removed. He just said it was at the end of season one. His chip was ramped up by tarkin. I have just watched the hole first season again.
@@kingorange7739 They should of put that in one of the programs then. Untill they do actually put that in one of the episodes his chip is still in his head. You could also go ahead and link the page where the writers have said this because untill you do I will go by what was in the first season and at no point was the chip removed from Cross hair's head. It also makes no sense for the empire to remove it. Why would they go to the trobble to ramp it up so that it worked fully to then turn around and take it out?
@@knightofyourlife Crosshair already said it and the writers confirmed it. They didn’t show it because then it would spoil the twist. How is that hard for u to get?
@@knightofyourlife Likely it got removed during Crosshairs exposure to the Ion Engine. Remember Inhibitor chips that get damaged become a tumor to the brain. At that point the Empire likely had to remove it to prevent it from killing Crosshair. And even the season itself makes it pretty clear through Crosshairs actions at the end of the season. And what reason would u think Crosshair has to lie?
@@knightofyourlife Jennifer Corbett: “I think it depends on which member of the Bad Batch you asked. I think they all have a very different opinion of where they stand, in particular Hunter, Crosshair, Echo, and Omega. The question of “what’s my purpose” is really a show theme, because the Empire taking over and the galaxy shifting and changing, it’s continuous and it’s evolving, and so are they. What Hunter is trying to do is keep his squad safe, and Omega is just trying to learn how to survive in this world, having been kept on Kamino her whole life. Crosshair, now that we know his chip is removed, he’s trying to see if he really does fit in with the Empire. He doubles down and he decides to stay. This is what he’s going to do. And Echo is the one who is questioning Hunter the most on what they should be doing and wanting to do more. All three of them continue to have these internal discussions throughout the season and hopefully next season.”
@Geetsly's didn't you do a video on this like 6 years back? Did they change source material or something? Tbh I didn't watch the full thing I just came to show support and skim.
Clone commandos: Good soldier follows orders.
Empire: Good. Now train your replacements.
Clone: Frak.
*Good soldiers follow orders.*
You mean Phrik
Doing their duty 😂
@@erronblack3935 or Kark. Or Kriff in Star Wars: Legacy
E chuta!
Echo: "These... New Troopers. What do you mean our "replacements?"
Gregor: "Well we Clones are soldiers of the Republic that doesn't exist. These recruits come from all over the galaxy and swear loyalty to the Empire. They're not as skilled but there's an endless supply of them."
Hunter: "Numbers aren't everything."
They're a poor excuse of a soldier.
Vietnam begs to disagree
@@miguelperez9906 ?
@@CaptainHowzer325 you're damn right. no one can ever replace you and your brother
@@CaptainHowzer325 in the Vietnam war the better soldiers and better armed military’s did not win it was who had the most bodies to throw at the problem you can also consider WW2 being the same. Numbers in almost every military encounter are everything when they do not matter that’s the exception to the rule.
Where does it say the clones would get "shot" after finishing their job? I think we're assuming "phase out" means "kill" but that would be an absurd waste of imperial resources. It's not like the commandos can't be trusted to keep a secret; they've been doing covert operations their entire lives.
it's the inconsistencies with Fioni's dumb storytelling. If you read the Clone Commando novels you can see how the guys transitioned and carried out covert ops against Jedi exiles, partisans, etc. The old Clone Commandoes explained in the legends are far more interesting than the crap Filoni gave the public. He basically made the Clones sabotage the Empire from the beginning, thus making their mission very predictable, boring, and the list goes on.
In some of the Canon. Many clones were phased out and given land, places to settle. Many clones went on to be bounty hunters, guards, and administration across the galaxy. Clones age very quickly and very few were genetically modified to live longer. So they were phased out very quickly in our human standards. In Canon and I think legends many of these clones would continue to serve as soldiers. Just that many of these battles diminished their numbers too greatly and there were no fresh supply of them. Save the 501st legion aka Vader's Fist
@@eddieram435 wtf are you on about even, literally nothing shown in BB contradicts what you said.
You edited and lost the heart
@@rexlumontad5644 who me?give it back
I could swear I remember a piece of legends material about clone commandos founding and training the stormtrooper corps.
Republic commando novels
That was in an episode of The Bad Batch making it Cannon from a certain point of view.
@@macekreislahomes1690 we’re aware but the training of imperial troopers by clones was talked about way before bad batch was even thought of
ARC troopers were offered retirement or train replacements.
Good points everyone. May The Force be with you.
ARC troopers would have been a more fitting role for training the Stormtroopers.
The only issue is those guys tend to disobey orders constantly
@@zachattack1279 It would be an interesting thought though.
Stormtroopers trained by the likes of Fives had he not been shot. Hmmmmm
ARCs have too much free will. Clone commandos had a nice mix of the obedience of the regs and the skill of the ARCs, making them perfect as instructors.
Dawg arc trooper became the commandos 😂🤣😂
By the end of the clone wars, the oldest clones were 26 years old, in clone years.
I know that’s pretty young to have the following mindset (unless you have kids,) but when you’re a career focused individual in your middle ages, you start to feel the desire to leave some kind of legacy behind, demonstrating that your life’s work meant something, and will live on through future generations.
You mean non clone years, considering they physically age faster than everyone else.
Palpatine: Join the dark side. We have cookies.
Random Imperial Officer: M- My Lord, We- We've run out of cookies
Palpatine: It's treason then *Force Lightning*
Everything is treason when it comes to Palpatine
@@geetslys Yep and we love every bit of it
The Empire would've won the war if they put the Death Star budget into bakeries.
Great video, but I don’t think replacing/phasing-out of clones means immediate execution as some suggest. It should either be instant retirement at worst or somewhat gradual changing of the clone to non-clone ratio due to the fact that no more clones are being made.
I’m hoping for the latter, because unless something like a clone rebellion gives the empire a reason to expel all the remaining able-bodied clones, it would be an uncalled for waste of soldiers.
Firstly, there was a rebellion of clones troopers, two in fact. One large scale rebellion on Kamino and another attempt on the emperor. I commented this above somewhere. But clones age very quickly. Many went on to work other jobs across the galaxy and battles quickly diminished their number. With the highest concentration of clones being incorporated into Vader 's fist
@@Luke41461 I was thinking the same thing when it came to the clone wars depleting their numbers to the point that they would soon become a drop in the ocean of stormtroopers. I hope what you say is true, because it fits nicely.
I appreciate that they went with the idea that the chips were influencers not erasers. Gives some credit to the 501st Journal saying they had traitorous thoughts but followed orders anyways.
*after knocking out the Stormtroopers*
Hunter: "I thought you said you trained these guys."
Gregor: "I didn't teach them *everything.* I wouldn't be very smart now, would it?"
He's got a point.
@@CaptainHowzer325 the only smart Clone Commando post-Order 66
@@worldwanderer91 Damn right
Gregor has always been a legend like that
There is a possibility that some or all of the commandos are sneakily fudging the TK training to make it so they're not as efficient as the clones and the apparent zeal they have for this job is a cover for how they really feel... As Geetsly said, they're smarter than the average clone and due to Gregor's mental state there may be a plan they've not filled him in on
It's sad to see Clones(the Commandos) who were much more independent reduced to this. They use to have so much independence and free thoughts, and now there just mindless drones, like the Droids they use to fight. That analogy works as with the training of the TKs it's basically the same as a droid building a new model that will replace them and send them to the scrap heap.
You'd think if the Commandos knew they were going to be replaced they'd rebel. Ironically enough, Crosshair in the original version of the episodes of The Clone Wars that introduced the Bad Batch that were released in post animation years ago said it best as to why they would rebel, "I know I wouldn't be too loyal if I was left for dead." I'm pretty sure most people draw the line when the people there loyal to try to kill them or leave them to die.
The fate of these Clones is sad. Hopefully, Gregor can at least convince some other Commandos that they are smarter and better than this evil Empire and get them to rebel. The only question for the Clone Rebellion is who will get the pleasure of killing that bastard Ramphart for what he did to Kamino.
This also gives a cold perspective on them too which I find really cool
Yes
Kal “recruited” (adopted) at least six commandos as well as his null arcs plus however many “reg” deserters. Clan Skirata forever!
I like to think that Sev somehow survive Kashyyyk and joined the Rebellion and had to fight Delta Squad
It would be nice if at least one member of Delta Squad was smart enough to see the evil of the Empire and choose to do the right thing.
It would actually be ironic if it was Sev, since he's basically the Crosshair of this team. Although, he was, left for dead so there is incentive there to join the Rebellion
republic commando is not canon anymore
@@The7thFleet I mean to be fair, nothing I've seen in the new canon just yet contradicts the events of the game, so as far as I'm concerned they can still fit in continuity for now.
@@zexalbrony4799 yet they havent done that
@@The7thFleet Its not canon yet Delta squad is featured in Clone wars and everything developed in the game relating to commandos has been implemented in canon, including their look, technology and weapons ect.
Including things that should have been changed in Canon, like their squad formation, the idea that a Commando unit would have just 4 members makes sense in a tactical video game or RPG for obvious reasons i.e its hard to micro-manage large groups of characters in a first/3rd person video game. But in canon, a commando squad should have at least 12-36 members, but instead we got 4 members per squad with 10,000 members in total to fight in a galactic war that spans hundreds of worlds against billions of battle droids? LOL. Then again the dynamics of war in "Star wars" in general, has never made any sense. Fighting a galactic war on entire worlds, not cities vs billions of mass-produced Battle droids and George Lucas decided that this line makes sense "200,000 units are ready with another million on the way" - Prime minister of Kamino. In Ww2 the Germans deployed 3 million just to take over Russia lol. But you're telling me 200,000-1mil clones are supposed to stop billions of droids, while fighting on a 100 worlds simultaneously? Where do these Star Wars writers have their heads? These Writers don't seem to understand the concept of a type 3 galactic civilization fighting a galaxy-wide war, there should be 10s of millions of clones. We saw the same stupidity in the Sequal trilogy, the "resistance" amounted to a small fleet, that could barely defend a city and the first order managed to "destroy" the new republic which has thousands of worlds and vast territories by just destroying 5 worlds? LOL. Lets not forget the stupid story of Battlefront 2 EA, where the empire created inferno squad, to stop a galaxy-wide rebellion from blowing up the second death star and it turns out that inferno squad isn't an entire legion of elite troopers with their own capable fleet no, its 4 soldiers with painted light pilot armor, lol so 4 soldiers in light armor are supposed to stop 10s of millions of rebels and thousands of rebel ships from destroying the second death star? LOL ok.
well for the clones theres no difference to being enslaved to the republic or being enslaved to the empire. if they hadnt deserted (or had plans to desert) they were loyal to their masters, and why should ranks of them leave after the empire came to power?
What I really liked about Crosshair’s reasons for supporting the Galactic Empire is because they are perfectly legitimate, understandable reasons. He was tired of fighting a galactic war. He simply wanted order and peace.
Because shooting innocent civilians is an act of peace
@@personofinterest3534 And those "innocents" were Rebel scum
@@rexlumontad5644 what about the innocent people in seperatist colonies?
Exactly, he could either join an insurgency and keep the blood shed flowing or stay with the empire and stop more wars
@@rexlumontad5644 Like DN Protagonist said, I obviously was referring to the innocent people who didnt want to be involved in combat, genius
*thumbnail*
Clone Commando: "DROP AND GIVE ME 50 PUSH-UPS, MAGGOT!!!"
😆
TKs: *shoot their instructors in the back*
When he finishes, the commando be like: "Good, now get some bacta trooper."
Empire: We're gonna replace you.
Commando's: ...
Empire: And you're gonna train your replacements, if you don't we'll imprison you then execute you.
Commando's: Sounds sick bro.
Solid deal
And yet the empire needed them to do the dirty work.
That Stormtrooper in the thumbnail is doing push ups for getting bacta he and his squad hadn't earned yet
Bad batch: the republic is evil now
Clone commandos: it’s the republic tho…
Smart Clone Commandos(so basically Gregor): No. It's not the Republic anymore. Our loyalty is to the Republic, not this Empire.
Smarter clones: The Empire is better tho
I wish Star Wars RUclipsrs would just stop trying to find justifications for the stupid decisions made by the people currently in charge of Star Wars canon, once again, Legends handled it better, like with almost everything else.
Scorch: And whenever you set a charge, you should always make sure you do red-red-green. Or red-green-red. One of those two.
We need a show centred around imperial special forces units, iden could be the protagonist we need to see more of her when she was loyal to the empire
No. Imperial commandos. Not bad batch type troopers I mean REAL commandos
What do you mean
Great video. I don't see any reason to believe the Clone Commandos would have been shot after training the first groups of Stormtroopers. They clearly offered tremendous value to the Empire as trainers for the next group of Stormtroopers and reliable operatives for future covert Ops. Clones had short lifespans, so it would have been necessary and understandable to have a replacement program. So they wouldn't have been acting against their own interests. I do agree with you that the ones who agreeed to become trainers probably believed in the Empire, like Crosshair.
I could see Delta Squad working for the empire. Fixer was pragmatic to a fault and Boss and Scorch would still be frustrated and resentful after being ordered by the Jedi to leave Sev behind like that.
You know what's funny I was just watching with Republic commandos the theme song Just right now when I saw this new video pop up 😃😂😁
vode an
Boss: "Form up Delta!"
Why would the Empire just kill the Commandos after the training is completed? Seems kind of pointless
Your talking about the same empire who obliterated a core world, to make a point and legitimize the rebellion as a consequence. Or as a big F-U to the remnants of the empire, attempted to scorched earthed their remaining loyalist world's. Hobbling themselves for meaningless reasons is what imperials do.
They wouldnt thats the thing. They would just send them on more missions.
@@eddapultstab2078 yes, but they still had reasons to do those things. Bad reasons, yes, but still they were there.
@@steelrexer1062 and they had bad reasons to remove clones as well, most of the clones have served a jedi general, their loyalties have been questioned, for dubious reasons of course, they wanted cheaper soldiers, the list goes on. Many of these reasons are arguably not reasonable but the empire does it anyway.
I assumed it was something to do with the inhibitor chips. In the Bad Batch, the clones were meaner post Order 66. I know that they aren't mindless robots but the inhibitor chips were a powerful influence.
Rebellious clones like Rex before his chip was removed had stronger resistance to the biological programming in the chips.
Going purely by canon since Legends didn’t have chips. In canon the chips ultra intensified their obedient instincts. Think of it like an addiction. It became an addiction to follow order and complete the mission. Doing things that contradicted it would actually mentally hurt them. However that only ensures they follow the order, not how enthusiastic they were to follow it or how they personally felt about them. And over time the chips effects and influence began gradually fading. Giving clones more and more room to go against orders until eventually the chip had little to no influence over them. This is noted with Captain Howzer where by this point, most of the effects of the chips were gone and probably just served more as a coping thought rather than a controller. Basically just whispering in ur head that ur doing the right thing. I hope that answers ur questions
For the said Clone's TRUE love... Flipping space burgers, and selling porg dogs at the intergalactic drive thru.. which can't happen if the next generation of soldiers isn't ready
But why would the empire kill the commandos or any clone in general? They were the best possible slaves, genetically created to be submissive. They changed perfect soldiers and slaves for regular people? How does that make any sense?
Dave Filoni created the worst plot device with inhibitor chips to make the clones very similar to battledroids. No chip means no loyalty so it takes away from the sense of duty those guys had in the prequels.
@@eddieram435 It does, but it doesn't answer my question...
@@Alfonso88279 that dumb inhibitor chip answers your question.
@@eddieram435 It doesn't. I think you didn't understand my question. My question is not how the empire forced them. My question is WHY. Precisely because of that chip, they were PERFECT for a tyrannical empire.
Let's say you need to annihilate a bunch of planets and commit the most terrible genocide ever. Who would you send to get it done? That regular guy who comes from another planet not too far from there, or a clone, created to obey, trained to be precise and deadly since he was born, and with an organic chip that induces him to submit and obey you?
Who?
Exactly.
@@Alfonso88279 the blowing planets excuse always comes...If I recall, Commie George Lucas once compared that scummy rebel alliance to the infamous Vietcong battling the US forces during the Vietnam war. The Republic created the Empire because of it's liberal policies that rotted the foundation of the Republic Constitution. Both the Jedi and the Republic's decrepit and draconian ways gave way to the Empire.
The New Republic had their chance as well and failed miserably at every level of government as explained by the Client in the Mandalorian series. Such liberal policies and the lazy excuse of government and the popular vote to shift power away from Imperial Center gave way to the creation of the First Order. Again, the liberal policies of the New Republic gave way to facism because the Galaxy was left abandoned by the ruling majority of the New Republic.
Filoni's dumb plot device removes the sense of loyalty of the clones as explained in the prequels, only to make them cardboard copies of the Battledroids used by the CIS that need programming in order to fight😒😒. What a terrible storyline as shown in the Clone Wars tv series.
Also, look at the terrorist Saw Guerera and his partisans which are also responsible for as many losses both civilian and military casualties...Gets pass because Star Wars is black and white and we are not allowed yo judge the rebels. Even the princess of Alderaan was also exonerated from her position as senator because the the New Republic found out she is the living descendant of Lord Vader.
There is no excuse to pardon Filoni for creating so many inconsistencies with the Clones because they are loyal and a sense of duty, not a random piece of a motherboard put into their brains.
I never would have trained those imperial slime!
Yeah. You can't. Cause you're dead.
You and me both.
War breeds heroes and monsters.
Ahem...I think you mean the Jedi Order. They are basically responsible for 3/4 of the Galaxy's suffering.
Clone commandos are pretty intelligent. When they disobey orders, it's to modify the plan to make the overlying goal more attainable. The commandos would most likely have known the probability of of escaping the empire for an extended duration unlikely and as a sense of sense of self preservation, played the loyalist because they know deep down any crack on that image could mean instant termination and they know it. It should be noted from republic to empire and the values they entail is both drastic and dramatic and commandos who are trained to be sensitive to swift changes on the battlefield would be painfully aware about what is going to happen next. The imperial military leadership already made their feelings about clones abundantly clear. Their only and best option is to play the long game. If any, if not all are against these changes, they would treat it like a deep cover operation and remain undetected for as long as possible until either they are released from service or are forced to use all available avenues to escape.
Training the storm troopers is most likely keep your friends close and your enemies closer situation. The only people they can trust the most is other clone commandos, and Training the storm troopers is the perfect way to monitor their capabilities and patterns as they are the ones arranging it. If the imperial leadership tries to dispose of them, they are in a good position out maneuver the troopers. And if they maintained the poker face, no one would be the wiser of the emergency assets they prepared.
Bruh, how dare my commando brothers betray me like that...
I need know how that feels.
@@CaptainHowzer325 They found the time to train stupid human recruits but they couldn't even spare a second to search for me...
@@commandosev And I got arrested by my own brothers.
@@CaptainHowzer325 we should meet up and form a rebellion against the Empire
man, we should have gone back
I just love how casually you put in some Star Wars: Commander images. I know Kosh's mug when I see it.
I wouldn’t be so quick to throw away the inhibitor chips. We saw with Crosshair that they can intensify the effect of the chips. It is safe to assume that Empire also intensified the chips of the Commandos
Love that quote from Wilfred Owen in the description.
I would like to think that not ALL of the Clone Commandos stayed behind and trained Stormtroopers. I'd really like to see more Rogue Commandos like the Bad Batch and Gregor
I'm of the opinion that the main thing is diversification being the thing they saw it as.
Rather than a "these are your replacements," the clones were being phased out at that point. Clones being expended and with the entire mess with Kamino, a lot of them believing that the Kaminoans betrayed them because that's what they would have been told there. Add that to the "Jedi Betrayal" at the end of the Clone Wars, meaning that several Clones might be a bit less into things at that point.
You might also still have the various issues with the Spaarti clones that the Republic had been supplementing the Kaminoan ones with as in Legends where they were, largely inferior to the Kaminoan ones and had an even shorter lifespan.
Then you have the lifespan issues the clones would be suffering soon, so most of the Commandos would know they were nearing the end anyway, and you don't need to be in your prime to pass on that knowledge...which combines well with things that I remembered from Legends with several Clones that were extremely capable being happy to be recalled to Kamino to aid in training their brothers due to knowing the enemy tactics and other things to make the later waves of clones more capable right from the start with fewer things needed to be picked up in the field.
Plus the Commando's and ARC Troopers would be the best of the best there, probably mixed in with several pilots and officers that would have the same kind of thing and skill set, they're ensuring the Empire's troops are as good as they can get there.
Meanwhile, the Empire isn't, normally, going to just be shooting the clones they have unless there are other issues with those particular clones.
You would have various forces in the Empire that still preferred the clones in Legends, meaning there probably would still be some in Disney stuff...such as Vader's Fist and others that would be mixed. It's just that the Clones aren't being replaced with Clones, and they're hitting the point where they're physically starting to have issues. They're being expended in the field, given more dangerous tasks with fewer survivors.
I'd guess that they had no expectation of a retirement. Viewing being a drill sergeant as a job that would get them to their accelerated old age while molding an army of normal aging soldiers. They would have known that there were millions left to train, and no value in getting rid of them while there were so many left to train.
Do you think in the Canon timeline, they killed off the clones when they had enough civilian volunteers?
It would be a risky ploy, even for the empire, there are millions of clones still in service at this point and one mistake and that would lead to mayhem. They can eliminate individual dissidents without raising too many eyebrows but wiping out entire units would be noticed really quick even with censorship. The smart thing is keep them busy until they hit their expiration date or are too invested in the empire to be an insurgent.
Thumbnail CC looks like fitness trainers lol
"That's it boy! Up! Up! 2 more sets in 30 second!"
Lol, in the thumbnail the clone is like "You wanna act stupid in my new Empire huh? Tight. PUSH BITCH!"
The regs also had the same driven original aspirations as the commandos and they too were taught throughout their lives of being expected to give their lives for the cause. And yet, there were more in their ranks who decided to leave their service to the Empire, which to whom the regs did not give their oaths of allegiance to.
If the commandos were stronger independent thinkers than the regs there should have been greater questioning from the commandos. There has to be something more to their motivations to serve the Empire other then just that it somehow gives them purpose as being soldiers.
A commando can be a commando in other areas than just the Empire.
To me it seems like the commandos were loyal to the Empire for reasons other than it just gives them a continuous sense of purpose. It seems like to me the inhibitor chips were preaching orders to the choir. They would have gladly carried out order 66 completely on their own initiative. Most of them in their years of hardcore warfare experiences may have saw the Empire in an ideological perspective.
Video idea, analysis to what qui gon jin was meditating on in the phantom menace, when he was waiting to fight maul between the laser border.
Good soldiers follow orders
Every time I see a new video involving Republic Clones or Imperial Stormtroopers you are in the comments section.
Why are you always EVERYWHERE?!
@@EnclaveSOC-102 I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe
Training your replacements isn't that inconceivable when you're going to be retiring in less than 10 years. By the time the TKs fully replaced the clones, most clones would be of retirement age, and the commandos are no exception. So they took the job to get paid well, so they can build up for their retirement.
Could be right, we don’t get to see much of the commandos in canon, other than Gregor, Delta Squad and the Bad Batch. Arc troopers were more independent minded clones so I could see them rebelling from the empire but commandos were independent thinkers that were still obedient to their supreme authority, the republic-turned-empire. This is why we need a sequel to Republic Commando the video game. So many questions!
Arguably, it was a good choice. If history is anything to go by, this is an almost war winning decision.
The Axis in WWII had a decisively greater number of high scoring Tank and Plane aces. Partly this was to do with having tactical advantages in their equipment, but the major creditor to their successes was due to experience. Once they'd gotten lucky enough to learn their vehicles, they could proceed to exercise their known advantages ad infinitum. This is how you see aces with the likes of hundreds of claimed kills, feats which the Allies never had.
However, much of that was due to a deliberate choice in training. The US and UK would take notice if any of their pilots and tank crews pulled off considerable success and have them pulled back to train new recruits how to win. This did mean they moved experienced personnel off the lines, however this also greatly increased the average ability of US and UK soldiers. By the mid to late war, from early 1944 and onwards, the difference in trained ability between Allied and Axis crews proved to be a very decisive advantage. Sherman crews at a disadvantage in AT firepower and armor proved to be as capable and effective as their better equipped German contemporaries. They were trained to learn to take engagements more carefully to maximize the potential of their smaller tanks. Allied pilots dominated the skies over France and Germany, but the Pacific especially exemplified the colossal difference in kills that training granted the USN's Hellcats and Corsairs.
Germany meanwhile continued to have their high scoring aces, however the average ability of their common personnel plummeted. Their defense of France was utterly crushed at breakneck pace despite having considerable advantages in terrain and equipment. In the Pacific, Japanese aircrews became utterly helpless to fight Allied aviation. A fact which culminated in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, a battle which was so vastly in the USN's favor that they likened it to a sporting event.
There were more factors to this, but training was a significant factor that won WWII. The Empire choosing to use their limited supply of veterans to train their next generation of soldiers is a wise investment, especially considering that poor unit adaptability was a major contributor to the Separatist's defeat. It didn't matter that there could be 10 droids for every clone, eventually someone was going to learn how to scrap 15 and teach others how to do the same.
I get your point, but on a pound for pound basis, the Germans still performed the best until the final few months. Throughout the Normandy campaign the US needed a 2:1 advantage to beat the Germans. It took the allies 4 times longer to liberate France than it took for Germany to conquer it. Look up the KD ratio of axis to allied. Germans had an average of 12:1 KD on the eastern front and 2:1 on west until the last 6 months
One thing people always overlook in the Clones better than Storms argument is the environment both were bred in . Think about it, the Clones were bred, trained and then forced into the front lines of a war against massive never ending waves of droids, any clones that survived and lived long in the war were all battle hardened and experienced as they were fighting a force that was equal and alot of times in greater numbers than them.
Storms on the other hand, by the time of the OT, were used to just patrolling planets and cities and fighting small rebel groups. Rebels were small and only fought skirmishes and ambushes which meant they were always on the disadvantage against Storms and all the Storms would have to do is outlast the attack and repel them. Sure, a Stormtrooper can be a skilled soldier but years of just scaring off Rebels and mostly patrolling and maintaining the territories held by the Empire really dulls your skills and without a real actual war, you're bound to get rusty.
TLDR: Clones had to evolve and remain sharp to survive in a galaxy wide war. Storms despite being trained to be the best had very little real threats to deal for the need to become better soldiers.
Storm trooper training is inconsistent as not many planets could afford the same type of luxuries that other planets may offer in terms of training. Since the quality of said facility being dependent on the economy of the planet its stationed on. Another issue is that Storm troopers lack maintained firing practice and drilling. This is weird considering that Storm troopers are soldiers, yet the Empire overlooked the most key important aspect of keeping a dormant military force constantly prepared. Lastly, Storm troopers
aren't to repel rebel forces, they're to exterminate them. If the standards are that low, that one must simply survive. That's an Empire that isn't gonna last.
So what it boils down to, the Empire is clueless. They make the worst decisions.
At least, Gregor didn't teach them everything.
the TKs were dumb anyway
I love that thumbnail so much
That thumbnail is gold, I can just imagine that commando screaming his lungs out, yelling “C’MON CADET, MOVE YOUR A**, I’VE SEEN FETUSES DO BETTER PUSH-UPS, YOU’RE AT ZERO AND YOU HAVEN’T DONE A SINGLE ONE RIGHT!” That thought scares me.
4:19 The bad batch: Aren't we commando?
genuine question - How many CCs are there? (by the time of Bad Batch). I thought it was a very small number.
Anyone else kinda prefer the way the clone's being phased out was handled in legends
There's one more thing that i see a lot left out--lifespan. Clone troopers age much, much faster than regular humans. I mean just look at Rex. He was hardly 10 chronologically if i remember correctly, maybe 15 at oldest, when the war ended. Yet about 15 years later into Rebels, he looks like he's 50, despite definitely being no older than 30.
People, in one way or another, would be compelled to want their actions to have mattered when they lived (whether they'd strive to do so is another thing altogether), & i don't think that clones are any different in that regard. Given that clones are brought up & socialized around their own most of the time, hardly having any contact with civilians & actively discouraged from politics, morality ain't half as important as getting their jobs done right, just like how you put it, republic or empire, it's all the same to them.
With all of that said, there're mainly 2 ways that i see that they could leave a legacy behind: continue to serve the 'continuation' of the republic, or escape & rebel. The latter, apparently, involves having moral awareness that most couldn't care less about, while the former, at least allows them to serve their intended purpose & hey, it's not like they know for sure that they'd get gunned down at the end of it all. Even if they think that it's entirely possible for the empire to just cast them aside as trash by then, they'd probably figure that they'd get too old & frail to be worth getting shot at anyway.
I remember someone mentioning the Clones had accelerated aging from birth to adulthood, once they reach age of full development, they are given specific hormones/chemicals to slow aging to normal. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was another form of control to keep Clones from being too much problem if they end up going rogue like Rex did. Imagine if he had normal lifespan, he would have live long enough to meet Luke.
@@TheGary108 There's a fan theory where Rex was at the Battle of Endor. There's some images of an older dude with a white beard, just an extra but the theory fits
Pretty sure in the bad batch scorch is the one at the secret commando training facility where they were keeping Gregor
I figured if the empire did kill them they didn't come out and say that's what was in store for them. They were told to train more troops,which would look like a fairly easy job. The empire hadn't committed too many atrocities by then so it's not like they'd expect a genocide. Most of them probably bought in propaganda about order 66 which would have been the worst thing the empire was known to do at that point. Tucked away at a remote base they be oblivious to what was going on around the galaxy. Doing their jobs until the empire got what it wanted from them. A sad way for some of the best soldiers the galaxy had ever seen to go out. In my head cannon every single one of them denied a blindfold.
The commandos weren’t executed. Clones were decommissioned and let go not terminated
I'm wondering what would happen if these events happen before, during or at the end of the Clone Wars, how will the galaxy handle with it.
1) What if the Sith Empire invaded the galaxy during the Clone Wars?
2) What if the Eternal Empire invaded the galaxy during or at the end of the Clone Wars?
3) What if the Galactic Empire was already formed in secret by Palpatine before the Clone Wars?
Well all these empires are mostly dead. And if they are beyond the outer rim they have more to contest with than the galactic empire. As in canon. There are confimed existences of other very powerful species, that are ruthless.
@@Luke41461 I know, i'd was thinking if a small renment group of the Sith Empire and the Eternal Empire that survived and was hidden from the rest of the galaxy and build-up their armies and fleets, same way the Sith Empire did in the Old Republic game and the First Order did in cannon. Also I'd somewhat know that are other powerful and ruthless species out there like the Vuuzhan Vong. I was just curious that's it.
@@loganwhitney8471 i think if any of these empires existed, either independently or under the sith emperor. They have a high likelihood of wiping out the empire. Due to the fact that both of the ones you listed have high amounts of force sensitive soldiers. Hell I could see old Mandalore winning against the empire. Cannon wise? This period is like a time where technology is stagnating as well. So any of these other empires have a good chance. Except plot armor.
@@Luke41461 I agree, the empire would have a hell of a problem cause their not fighting rebels but a full on military force with like you said a lot of force sensitive soldiers. And the old Mandalore I'd can see that being a huge pain for the empire. Now the big question is, would Palpatine know about it and keep it a secret or would he have no idea about them until it's too late?
@@loganwhitney8471 he would most likely know. Because the sith empire and the eternal have so many force sensitive. That all of them moving against the empire with one purpose would create a ripple in the force.mandalore is another thing though. I think he would scheme to prevent it from reaching public knowledge. In Canon the empire had its own forces of force sensitive. Maybe deploy them to assassinate and distract until he solved the rebel issue? But at the same time. External threats can unite the galaxy. Tbh even then he couldn't stop the old powers.
"Your tactics confuse and frighten me, sir."
I still don't understand why Palpatine would trust the commandos to train his new "stormtroopers" when he and most of the GAR didn't trust them due to their ability to think for themselves and strong attachment to their mandalorian heritage now if he had ARC troopers training them that'd make alot more sense cone on disney...cool episode still
I think it was more of over the course of the war they've gotten older and reached that point in a military career where you're the trainer now preparing the next generation to fight and that it's no longer their turn.
This explains why storm troopers couldn't hit the broadside of a barn door. I would screw over my replacements too.
Crosshair: The Empire has given us purpose.
Honestly the best take was the original clone wars canon (now legends) Clones are bred to follow orders. They're told to serve the republic, they serve the republic. The republic is reorganized into an Empire? Doesn't change a thing, they continue to serve. The empire decides to expand the Stormtrooper Corp with non-jango clones and natural born recruits and orders the original troopers to train them, good soldiers follow orders.
And follow orders they did, enforcing the new order and dying alongside their replacements on numerous battlefields including the Death Star, Hoth, Endor etc.
That thumbnail is legendary I couldn’t not click on the video
Looking at their Stromtrooper replacements made me think that they subtly yet actively made them incompetent outside of open warfare. Gurrila warfare? None compared to the Commandos. That's my theroy.
I think they lost their personalities due to the inhibitor chips and by this point are just Droids
Shown by Scotch being super badass and not cracking any jokes on the Bad Batch
Gregor was different because he actually had amnesia
As shown multiple times the chips don’t wipe a personality. They can alter perception but the clones are still very much who they are. This is especially noted within Warmantle where by then. Chips effects were wearing off and as such clones now did have the capacity to make their own choices. Most clone Commandos just never had reason to go against the Empire. Or hell even clones in general
@@kingorange7739 still, I don't get it why Scorch was being so serious where he usually cracks jokes in missions. Or it could be legends Scorch
@@K113-A Scorch wasn’t interacting with his squad mates and it’s possible he could of gotten more serious after Sev went MIA.
Further why do commandos train stormtroopers? Commandos are not front line troops unlike the stormtroopers.
Yeah doesnt really make sense to me, especially when all the stromtroopers we see turn out to be extremely stupid unless the commandos intentionally trained them wrong but I doubt it. I feel like it was just Filoni not really knowing how to implement the commandos into the bad batch show properly, he kinda just dropped them in there as generic bad guys.
Commando : well come to Kamino cadet's....why are you out of uniform Soldier ? .... soldier you are still out of uniform .
Clones advantage:loyal and expendable
Disadvantage: Expensive to create and it takes some time
Stormtrooper advantage: cheap and expendable and fast to get. Usually loyal because of propaganda and brainwashing
Stormtrooper disadvantage: Finn
Render themselves obselete..? Forgotten..?
The Commando's training new recruits is passing the torch. Its a old wizend worker showing a new person how the trade works.
And these commando's trained the stormtroopers because they felt that they would be judged to for what they left behind.
Most Commando's would be damned if the superb capabillity and reputation that made The Grand Army of the Republic such a formidable fighting force go to waste.
They did not suffer trough training and the clone wars to let it all die without putting up a fight. Anny fight.
So they fought to train the stormtrooper corps to the best way they knew how, so the spirit of the army that went before them, would not, and could not die.
They never lost. They went out fighting, or doing what they loved best. They fought a spiritual battle, for every clone that marched of Kamino.
In that last assignment. They completed their orders. The last order given to a Clone trooper, and they walked away with victory. Mission accomplished. Duty done.
No trooper, could ever ask for better.
Omega, Yayax and the REAL Delta Squad would like to have a word with you.
i imagine a lot of these clone commandos were flash trained 2 gen commandos..alot of the mando trained commandos were dead or rebelled
So dark but definitely makes sense!
*sees description* Great, foreign languages being used for mottos and all that.
1:05: Speaking about that, what happened to him in Legends?
Id Like to point out that they may aswell wouldve wanted the clone program to end because of the hells they went through and because they didnt want the destiny for future clones.
they still haven't revealed do they kill the clones they "retire"
I’d say they were loyal because they wanted the mission of unity and peace to succeed no matter the cost, they wanted the empire to be as strong as possible so any insurrection could be immediately eliminated, only ones who’ve seen the brutality of war would understand and want to avoid any chance of civil war because it would just destroy the galaxy further, I mean look at where the rebel victory led? It just made more fighting and got more planets destroyed
Not all of us complied
The commando left out 'how to shoot stright' from the trooper training. This is the big blow to the empire in following war against the rebellion.
This video is cool and all, but the line "it wasn't the inhibitor chips, it didn't create mindless drones" yet we saw at the end of CW S7 that Rex resisted briefly but basically did become a mindless drone who attempted to kill his friend he LITERALLY fought to protect not 10 seconds prior. So we know that maybe the chips did contribute more to this than first thought... especially when we think about problems regarding the rebel like nature a commando/arc trooper often showed.
Edit: also you said only 1 commando successfully rebelled and left the Empire, what about the Skirata clan? Or is that because it's Legends?
Excellent review 👍😜🎄
With no other life experience besides war, they perhaps knew a "normal" life wouldn't be possible.
But the commandos did have fully functioning chips...Gregor had to have his removed as stated in rebels
I do have another theory:
They wanted extended warranties for their cars.
Sounds like the clone troopers were perfect troops. Not sure why they would even want to replace them.
They were just doing what good soldiers always did. Follow orders…
They probably took training the tk like any mission. Until the bad batch showed up and caused the trainees to accurately shot them. Then they decided to meet minimum mission requirements just not to get shot.
Given the sheer number of Storm troopers needed, the Commandos are hardly training their replacements, so much as training up some fodder
I already missed Bad Batch :/ Hope we see more Commando Clones too T-T
can you do a lore video of the events that take place between Kotor and swtor? I want to know how the true sith fell from their brutal origins, as I think that they did exist with tenebrae, but fell apart after a while as he began to grow distant, and thus we have the empire from swtor, I'd like to know your thoughts, as well as your beliefs of whether or not the KOTOR reboot might make the third game, with more lore that explains what happened
Couldn't agree more... consequences for leaving were the empire felt by the bad batch. They used to be elite soldiers, but they wre just bounty hunters now.
If Scorch was on that planet, I bet the rest of Delta Squad too
What most people don't realize is that plot armor is high. So you can't do anything about it.
exactly...And the Force plays a karma against the Imperials so that they lose under the most dumb of situations.
Maybe they wanted to leave some kind of legacy behind? After all, they had no chance of a family or at least they would be smart enough to figure it would be a life eternally on the run. Maybe they figured they were getting themselves are loyal Brach of the new imperial military that would hopefully remember them and help them if nessary?
The empire is kinda cool, maybe you could join it or somthing
Because they're soldiers and that's all they knew.
Cross hair's chip was not removed. He just said it was at the end of season one. His chip was ramped up by tarkin. I have just watched the hole first season again.
Again his chip was removed later on. This has even been confirmed by the writers
@@kingorange7739 They should of put that in one of the programs then. Untill they do actually put that in one of the episodes his chip is still in his head. You could also go ahead and link the page where the writers have said this because untill you do I will go by what was in the first season and at no point was the chip removed from Cross hair's head. It also makes no sense for the empire to remove it. Why would they go to the trobble to ramp it up so that it worked fully to then turn around and take it out?
@@knightofyourlife Crosshair already said it and the writers confirmed it. They didn’t show it because then it would spoil the twist. How is that hard for u to get?
@@knightofyourlife Likely it got removed during Crosshairs exposure to the Ion Engine. Remember Inhibitor chips that get damaged become a tumor to the brain. At that point the Empire likely had to remove it to prevent it from killing Crosshair. And even the season itself makes it pretty clear through Crosshairs actions at the end of the season. And what reason would u think Crosshair has to lie?
@@knightofyourlife Jennifer Corbett: “I think it depends on which member of the Bad Batch you asked. I think they all have a very different opinion of where they stand, in particular Hunter, Crosshair, Echo, and Omega. The question of “what’s my purpose” is really a show theme, because the Empire taking over and the galaxy shifting and changing, it’s continuous and it’s evolving, and so are they. What Hunter is trying to do is keep his squad safe, and Omega is just trying to learn how to survive in this world, having been kept on Kamino her whole life. Crosshair, now that we know his chip is removed, he’s trying to see if he really does fit in with the Empire. He doubles down and he decides to stay. This is what he’s going to do. And Echo is the one who is questioning Hunter the most on what they should be doing and wanting to do more. All three of them continue to have these internal discussions throughout the season and hopefully next season.”
@Geetsly's didn't you do a video on this like 6 years back? Did they change source material or something? Tbh I didn't watch the full thing I just came to show support and skim.
Clones have battle crocs