@@DanikonLUK So every time it was his illness? Come on man that's just an excuse. At some point he has to get his issue addressed or figure something else out
@@katastrophicbtw obviously but both those statements won't tell us much that doesn't favor them. Logically it's very unlikely that his medical issues were the cause of all the tardiness. Though if his medical issues were that much of a problem he should have been seeking treatment for it, because a lot of people work much more strict jobs with IBS.
I have really severe IBS/autoimmune problems that lead to very embarrassing situations. Sometimes I go to work for 8 hours in places where no bathroom is available to me. Jojo has to go to a gym (where they have bathrooms) and work in a team facility (where they have bathrooms) but people still want that to be an excuse??? Show up early and shit on company time bro!!!!
I think it is pertinent to point out that IBS/Chron's Disease/any condition is on a spectrum. If you have had a sizeable portion of your large intestines removed due to Chron's Disease, for example, "just hold it bro" may not be a feasible option. Diseases/conditions generally have a range of severities and symptomology. As a disclaimer, this could be a moot point regarding the Jojo situation.
I do agree, but shit on company time here doesn't apply because I highly doubt his contract is setup to be paid by the time spent in the office. Shitting on company time only applies to us hourly wage shills.😭
US military has the inverse experience of 6:30 - 7:06: High performance is invaluable, but the supply exceeding the demand means there isn't time for divas REGARDLESS of your other value. Similar to people's conception of team houses, you live where you work and have your day mapped out ahead of time. There are nuances to that I won't mention as they're not relevant. Here's the point. You can have the following punishment for not being at your appointed place and time ONCE: - 60 days restriction - Limitations on where you can go, extra working hours - Half month's pay for 2 months - I promise it's worse than getting benched - Reduction in rank and associated pay - Half of 2-4k a month hurts I knew many people who overcame insane challenges with their physical, mental, and spiritual health (or worse, those of their families) and still met the requirement to show up and do the work. They didn't run tardy. I don't lack compassion for Jojopyun's divulged difficulties. My experience has been that precious few people care about your problems, as a man, the second they interfere with their own lives. It's best to accept this and control what you can control.
there are people on the C9 subreddit wanting to replace Jojo with Jensen lmao. Bwipo was just on an LS costream talking about how lazy Jensen was during MSI and how his account only leveled up once with less LP than nukeduck.
That sub-reddit is a cesspool. They want to get Palafox who just had a worse year that Jojo. They honestly believe anyone is better than Jojo. Jojo was literally the best midlaner in the league in Spring, and a top-half mid during his worst split this summer. For all his problems, Jensen and Palafox damn sure arent solutions, and no matter what they do, they will have the same problem of not having any idea how to actually play the game, but now they have a midlaner that loses lane to boot. I honestly think C9 is going the way of TSM. I cant see this roster getting to another international event with only 2 spots available, without major changes and lightning in a bottle from someone who can lead like a Corejj. Fly and TL are already a cut above. If Jojo ends up on Dig with a better jungler and support, they will easily be competing vs this iteration of C9, and who knows if 100T gets better or not. Its looking like dark days for c9 fans.
If getting Palafox means giving the team better synergy to the team, you can damn well see them being at the top. Being the best at your role isnt always the answer, team synergy matters more in the long run in pro play. @@TheDestructodave520
@TheDestructodave520 I mean what other options are out there for native mid landers? If they are keeping their imports then I think you almost have to grab Palafox/Insanity/ABlazeOlive and see if they can step up. I think both Insanity and Palafox have potential to do something with a better team and jungle. I think the real issue is Vulcan, there aren't really any supports I feel good with them bringing in. But C9 needs a support who can shot call and be an engager.
Just like every eu player should have a poster saying "YOU ARE NOT XPEKE" on his ceiling so it's the first thing he sees in the morning. Every NA player should have one saying "YOU ARE NOT THAT GUY, PAL".
C9 100% threw jojo under the bus just to get off his contract BUT I don’t have any sympathy for jojo here. The idea that c9 would get him only to purposely dump him 6 months later is beyond idiotic. Obviously they intended to keep him since they used their 2 import spots. The dude got the biggest contract in the league to be added to a team that’s should easily win the league on paper and has clearly been underperforming and playing less solo q. The fact the team in such a bad state and he’s still late/motivation issues just put a target on his back and no one is to blame but himself for that. Also all these former eg staff act like after getting a massive bag, put in a situation where he has to be a bigger leader, and teammates he might not necessarily get along with jojo is still the same bright eyed kid.
I can't believe there is even a discussion on this. He is a professional, he is being paid to do a job, turning up on time is one of the minimums you should expect
reminds me of the golden days of western league when you'd make tons of these videos. This is your best kind of video imo, better than talk shows. Everyone's biased but you always give a pretty comprehensive and objective argument in these.
The two questions I need answers is 1. Is it very hard to be flexible in the structure of the team? Especially if you get a "high profile player" that would be a poor fit to the team but still brought in because you are a "top tier org" and money 2. How hard is it to find like minded players who fit your org culture and structure? Obviously skill has to be factoried in, but it seems hard for orgs to gauge the personalities of players before signing
You have to have a coach that has a feasible vision and direction for his team. Then he has to find his core players and work with them to bring in the remaining pieces. A good example is what BeastCoast just did in R6 pro scene, going from never making a Major in 6 years to becoming Major champions in 1 split while completely rebuilding the team. Part of the problem is their coach doesn't have a well worked out style that he can build. They need to start out like TL, find 1 style and get really good at that style then try and branch to other styles
What doesn't make sense about the toilet thing is, if you're his lawyer htf can you have a contract where he can be fired for cause due to known toilet issues
I'd love to hear you talk more about LS/C9.. i was honestly shocked about how LS seemed to come out mostly positively (compared to c9) with the community An org spends millions (+ time investment) to get a coach over from Korea + some of the players he wants.. only for things to be so bad only 2 weeks into him arriving in the USA.. they fell forced to sack him.. despite all of said investment and obvious backlash that would bring To me its obvious he acted so unprofessionally it was never going to work even with time But somehow the positive sentiment seemed to be with LS.. and people just memed C9 systems or making players go to the gym etc
I mean you can take one look at LS and realize hes going to behave unprofessionally. That guy is always gonna be a drama queen in any situation. No way in hell he was going to conform to any sort of professional setting.
The difference is, everyone knew that's how he was, they knew when they hired him, also the team was undefeated when he left and was super hyped and exciting to watch, so that's why he got a better look from the community. Well deserved in my opinion. With JoJo for me it just seems they didn't want to continue paying his massive salary through the end of the year and they got a way to kick him out
To me, it takes one player to sabotage a coach's plan, just like it takes one griefer to determine the outcome of a series. C9 has never won an international trophy. Even if they're crowded with talent, they're unable to reach top 2 at Worlds. It's time to stop excusing a veteran who has not made a finals appearance at Worlds, who is more likely to be mistaken for the success of their team, who has hit their skill ceiling years ago with multiple roster iterations, and who has the most reason to scapegoat other players to remain on the team with a big paycheck. To me, a coach would find this type of veteran a nightmare to work with as they can be the reason why they're let go without cause.
@Fabritox5 first of all they weren't undefeated.. they were like 3-1 and lost to the only good team at the time (TL) they had played.. it was nothing special for C9.. This was another thing people did to shit on c9 for sacking LS... by acting like omg it's so amazing C9 are beating teams with soraka mid.. when they were beating teams who were vastly gapped individually IF c9 knew he would do the stuff that he supposedly did.. they wouldn't have signed him in the first place, I'd imagine?? How does it make logical sense to sign him and expect him to work normally (if as you say) they already knew about his behaviour
@@Snootz86 bro, they literally played with a sub the first weeks, and had issues with getting everyone in at the beginning, you are just ignoring a lot of facts just for the sake of argument, they played new things,fudge was midlane, it was hype, everyone was like, "well, wish we could see where they were headed, sadly c9 has their systems" so yeah, their record for what they got and how everything turned out was good. Also, you can go back and watch ton of videos from Thorin and everyone else at the time, c9 knew, they just were too rigid at the end
Hey @Thooorin , @DocRespawn who worked with Jojo uploaded a video too, maybe an interesting watch as well for context. It will probably not get seen much since he doesnt have the reach.
So typically companies council employees to come up with a plan to stop being late. Wake up 10 minutes earlier so you can leave earlier. Catch the bus earlier, you can even clock in 5 minutes early so you can read your emails, or prep your uniform. Maybe work out some scheduling to switch days so you have tike to go fix your car. Front part of a paycheck so they can pay for the car fixes. If they still keep being late thats when its just an uncorrectable issue and you gotta let them go.
It's still a good enough reason to get fired for. Being late on the job is a no go at any professional environment. Being late affects everyone and everything. It's just not being late if you dive deeper on the effects it have on everyone.
@@arthurmarshall6825 you can’t just do whatever you want and blame it on your medical condition. Real world doesn’t work that way bud, no matter what social media thinks
@@arthurmarshall6825If that's preventing him from making it on time, then it should have been documented and brought up to the team before signing the contract. You need a proper documentation from a real MD with proper diagnosis. If there's none of that, Jojo still has no excuses to be late. Same thing before signing a contract at work. They will ask you if you have any disabilities that'll prevent you from meeting the terms and conditions of the job. C9 isn''t stupid. When signing that contract, you ABIDE to the terms and condition of the team. Meaning you agree to the demand of the job. My goodness man. Do you even have a job or are you ignorant on how the world works?
Some misleading ceo pay statements in this. Costco ceo makes 325k in salary and 15 million in stock options. All ceos make salaries less than a mil basically because this income gets taxed more and it ties their total compensation to the company outcomes.
RSUs or other stock options are usually also taxable income in most countries. However there are ways to pay out RSUs where the employee doesn't pay tax, cause the company covers it and such, so you're right, I just wanted to clarify :)
Your missing a key point thorin ( in assuming the LEC) is they have to actually be able to afford jojo even at a discount price. So no way in hell LEC teams are paying even 50% of premium that jack wants for jojo. So him to teb LEC is a pipe dream
This is exactly why Thorin is the goat, he doesnt hold back when it's time to criticize people he's friends with and he calls them out on their bullshit.
I would love to live in a universe where this happens to TSM, just to see Thorin making fun of them. Ripping into how they "let this happen FORTY-THREE TIMES"😂
being late this many times is unexcusable but I would still like to know how late he was. was he late for around a minute or even under a minute most of the time or was he late for more than 15min.
Are you employed?? If you are 1 second late... you're late. It's completely unprofessional. Now life happens, and often... so excuses are a thing, but late is still late.
Apparently he was late more than the 43 times. They got fed up and that's when they started counting I'm assuming it's more more 15+ minutes of being late. Don't think most jobs care if you're just like 5 minutes late.
@@jamesmunn576yes, and nearly every meeting simebody is alte for ~1min. I hate it but there is a huge differnce if you barely dint make it or you are way too late.
i knew he had issues but this is kinda really bad cause as people stated he could follow a small set of rules to make sure he doesn't have that much issues with it on important days, we have had as u said really big stars in CS deal with it and overcome it.
They give the ceo around 10 to 15 mil in stock compensation annually if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, he is definitely overpaid. I can't imagine him generating anything close to 700k for c9.
If JoJo wanted to leave the team without having a buyout wouldn’t this making it easier to join a new team. I would think not paying his massive buyout is more off putting to other orgs that are already paying other stars than this scandal
Let's be absolutely real here: if I showed up to my job late 43 times, it doesn't matter the reason. I'm getting fired. I'm probably getting fired long before the 43 times. This is the only industry where people will make excuses for people being downright disrespectful to their teammates and not respecting their time. If he DOES have medical issues preventing him being on time that often, he's either ignoring treatment, or he didn't discuss this with management to let them know this was going to happen regularly. No matter how you slice this, it's on Jojo. I think C9 just didn't want to immediately toss such a huge investment before they saw whether he was gonna produce results or not. He didn't, so they pulled the trigger and fired him for cause. Nobody making the amount of money these guys are making has an excuse for not being professional enough to be ON TIME. If you have bathroom issues, you get up/get ready earlier and get to the meeting early. If you need to be excused, you ask to be excused. You don't just show up late over and over. Think of how much that throws off everyone else's schedules.
This is the dumbest take given what was in this video. Yes the reason DOES matter. ADA means companies can't fired people over medical reasons, they have to make accommedations first. And there is nothing in this video to even imply that C9 did. Why you would even think JoJo never told C9 his medical issues or would ignoring mystical treatment to cure him that doesn't exist? That along with suggesting idiotic simple solutions shows you have no idea what is going on. Allorim thinks he may have something similar to JoJo and for him his options were "be late" or "starve"! Getting up earlier isn't going to help with that.
The biggest mistake C9 make this whole year was not giving Mithy fully authority over the team to mandhandle them and make him feel scared of telling the true and letting the team concentrate on what really matters. This is why Inspired work everywhere he goes. He's allow to talk and being supported by the coaches to do so and speak his mind. What is this dumbass system that only know how to lose. Why are teams wasting hours on yoga sections and workouts and gathering meetings to talk about feelings?. C9 need to drop this "system' bullshit baby sitting players and start copying a successful system and let the coaches be coaches and be hard on the players without having to be afraid of getting fired like they did with LS for questioning what the hell are we doing outside the game diminishing time from practicing and pursuing things to make the players better AT THE GAME.
While I agree for the most part the workouts and stuff aren't a bad idea. Being healthy makes you better at pretty much everything in life. I actually respect that aspect of it but it seems like c9 takes it way to far and babies everyone.
Bro i know everyone wants to milk the content out of this and it's fine, but honestly its so obvious they fired him because it was the best financial decision for them nased kn his salary (except for the fact they cant sell him now) just cutting loses
Bottom line is Jack foolishly bought into the Jojo hype, then once he realized that he was duped, he had to find a way to get C9 out of that horrendous contract.
orgs losing millions and going bust is what happens when kids run companies and have no grip on reality. people being fired for being consistently late is what happens when adults are in charge.
It is a bit wild for Kelsey Moser to come out and throw some oil on the fire if she never made an actual comment about the EG situation. It does seem like sometimes Jack gets the short end of the stick considering his willingness to accommodate players (not trying to step in the way of Jensen to TL, for example, even though Perks wasn't allowed to join fnatic for obvious reasons).
Sounds like JoJo is full of shit. I coached a challenger mid laner who was just as good as JoJo named MidIanehokage. But the difference was he was a medical student in college and as my life advice I told him he was much better off going into the medical field than Esports. I think I am a great League Of Legends coach with wisdom.
Thorin, not sure if I would trust Jack's words at face value like that. Under the assumption that multiple former and current c9 members have no reason to corroborate on a lie about statements on social media, he's lied so many times on social media. Not only that he has dragged people into false statements for no reason. Also I don't care who you are, if on your platform a former member is being accused of crimes when that's not the case you should correct that instead of letting those speculations continue. There are also numerous players that have voiced legitimate complaints about c9 as an org. Including things you've criticized players for doing. That being said great video as always appreciate your take on things.
The theory I'd buy is that C9 didn't want to pay Jojo's massive contract so they could make other roster moves so using being late as an excuse, fired him.
@@luchito1337 What issues with players work ethic? Dom's leak never mention work ethic. The only people talking about work ethic are those commenting with no idea whats going on and former EG people defending JoJo work ethic.
As a C9 fan I wanted Jojo OUT after spring. And really wanted him gone by end of summer. This is because he was reportedly turbo sprinting it in scrims and every clip or video or interview I’ve seen he’s not taking it seriously. He seemed incredibly complacent and he’s been underperforming. Good riddance Jojo
Not to mention this plays in to why Berserker was seen having a meltdown and getting frustrated. It was Jojo. Hard to get quality practice in when ur mid laner is sprinting it down constantly.
I was late every day for 5 years, while admitting openly that I did it because "my time is more important" and everybody loved me still. There's more going on than the lateness here.
I really liked Kelseys perspective having coached Jojo. She explained that Jojo had an extremely high work ethic and was not late even remotely close to 43 times on EG. She pointed out that a lot of pros get in to esports because they don't fit in to the normal 9-5 style of structure and that just because they struggle with it doesn't mean they aren't putting in tons of work. It could be that the structure of C9 was just so much more strict than EG that Jojo just didn't function well under it. Not to mention the possible medical issues that can always throw off timings. My thought is, how late is late? In every company I've worked for in the last 20 years we had a 7min leeway before being considered "late" but I could easily see teams counting 1min late as late and that's definitely their preference to do so. I think a big issue with C9 was that Jojo is historically a very aggressive player who often puts himself in questionable positions to try and play the line of inting and playmaking. For some reason C9 all of a sudden became insanely passive while Jojo was still attempting to bait plays. I remember an interview earlier in the year with Jojo that mentioned he liked playing Zeri because he could do things like E forward and force the enemy to try and jump on him and then immediately flash out to safety while his teammates counter the engage. Just seemed like that playstyle just stopped happening. I've never really considered Jojo the true carry (as far as resources and damage goes) of any team he was on. I always considered him the playmaker. He would make those insanely impactful split moment plays and let his teammate that got all the resources in the game take over from there. You can see really good examples of this in the first season of the year on his Neeko or Azir. Kind of feels like C9 lost their identity and stopped forcing resources on Berserker and stopped having Jojo on playmakers but maybe they just got too lost in trying to play the meta instead of working with their strengths.
Yep, the company I worked for we had 10 minutes to set up our PC. Get logged into everything and read emails before helping customers. As long as we were there talking to customers at 10 after you were fine because it didn't affect the business. You just ended up costing yourself a few minutes of pay and had to rush to get everything set up.
@@kaly8329 didn’t rigby leave EG in 2022 before Kelsey was their coach. I’m talking about the Kelsey quote where she said he didn’t have an issue which would have been her time as the coach starting in Nov of 2022
They gave him too big of a contract. He wants out of the team and now they're looking for an excuse to get out of paying him. It has nothing to do with being late or anything else.
I never understood the line of thinking of, hey let’s just sell this person to the LCS so they don’t beat us in LEC. This is why LEC is so shit right now because they’re losing good players lol.
Based on corporate culture and previous work ethics story about Jojo (always spoken as a hard worker), I think C9 did a typical corporate HR hit job to remove a person. Don't get me wrong, Jojo probably got complacent and probably was slacking at least a little. But i think C9 did a hit job not only to get out of paying him, but i bet someone in HR or executive position just hated Jojo for most likely no reason.
I disagree. If you were to pay a huge amount of money than any worker in the industry, you'd expect him to perform better than anyone else or atleast show he takes his role in the lcs seriously. After watching his performance against 100t & fly quest, I'd say it's reasonable
Hit job? Bro didn't do anything while being the most payed player in the league and he can't even show up on time? Bro should be sent back NACL until he learn how to be a professional and take his job seriously.
caedrel had this angle of jojo's contract sneakily having things like being late just a minute or less and they used it to get him out for his price is way too high. I think I agree that they used this to throw him under the bus.
I don't like C9 but late 43 times and not winning anything is just pathetic. Jojo overrated so much dude isn't even a professional he should go back to NACL from that performance.
@@Obiwankenobi-w5q oh no doubt Jojo is a clown. But I just can't help but laugh at Jack leaking this shit to Dom so he can get the court of public opinion on his side like the high school days.
@@Obiwankenobi-w5q no they don't. Not every team purposely airs their dirty laundry to the world so they can save face. TL didn't do it with Jatt and Summit. Jack didn't do it with LS.
The worst part is that JoJo is living in a team house, his being late is literally just fuckign walk down the stairs will ya?
also walking out of the bathroom leaking explosive diarrhea
@@DanikonLUK So every time it was his illness? Come on man that's just an excuse. At some point he has to get his issue addressed or figure something else out
@Darsam88 until we get official statements from c9 and Jojo, it's all speculative
@@katastrophicbtw obviously but both those statements won't tell us much that doesn't favor them. Logically it's very unlikely that his medical issues were the cause of all the tardiness. Though if his medical issues were that much of a problem he should have been seeking treatment for it, because a lot of people work much more strict jobs with IBS.
@@Darsam88 Depending on what he has it can't be fixed, pretty sure Crohn's is just chronic.
I have really severe IBS/autoimmune problems that lead to very embarrassing situations.
Sometimes I go to work for 8 hours in places where no bathroom is available to me.
Jojo has to go to a gym (where they have bathrooms) and work in a team facility (where they have bathrooms) but people still want that to be an excuse??? Show up early and shit on company time bro!!!!
there are meds for IBS too , so jojo could have actually dealt with it if thats what he has
I think it is pertinent to point out that IBS/Chron's Disease/any condition is on a spectrum. If you have had a sizeable portion of your large intestines removed due to Chron's Disease, for example, "just hold it bro" may not be a feasible option. Diseases/conditions generally have a range of severities and symptomology. As a disclaimer, this could be a moot point regarding the Jojo situation.
@@parkerthomas88 If he has an undiagnosed IBD, holding it isn't an option. (I have Crohn's)
I do agree, but shit on company time here doesn't apply because I highly doubt his contract is setup to be paid by the time spent in the office. Shitting on company time only applies to us hourly wage shills.😭
Yeah I don't eat anything before work cause I'll waste their time cause bathroom issues. It's just common sense.
Is it just me or does Thooorin's mouth movements remind you of stop motion Wallace and Gromit
Wait....wtf.....bro you are right. Almost a 1 to 1 sometimes.
he is literally the type of person those animations are based on. really animated and exaggerated brits
Literally made me laugh out loud. Can’t unsee.
Last time Dordin lasted over and hour and a half he was a wee lad wearing his coat and scarf inside his apartment back England.
The good cs days
1 hour 44 minutes holy shit let’s go
He should have made it 43 minutes for the memes
hell yea!
It’s as long as Jojos shit
US military has the inverse experience of 6:30 - 7:06: High performance is invaluable, but the supply exceeding the demand means there isn't time for divas REGARDLESS of your other value. Similar to people's conception of team houses, you live where you work and have your day mapped out ahead of time. There are nuances to that I won't mention as they're not relevant. Here's the point.
You can have the following punishment for not being at your appointed place and time ONCE:
- 60 days restriction - Limitations on where you can go, extra working hours
- Half month's pay for 2 months - I promise it's worse than getting benched
- Reduction in rank and associated pay - Half of 2-4k a month hurts
I knew many people who overcame insane challenges with their physical, mental, and spiritual health (or worse, those of their families) and still met the requirement to show up and do the work. They didn't run tardy. I don't lack compassion for Jojopyun's divulged difficulties. My experience has been that precious few people care about your problems, as a man, the second they interfere with their own lives. It's best to accept this and control what you can control.
there are people on the C9 subreddit wanting to replace Jojo with Jensen lmao. Bwipo was just on an LS costream talking about how lazy Jensen was during MSI and how his account only leveled up once with less LP than nukeduck.
That sub-reddit is a cesspool. They want to get Palafox who just had a worse year that Jojo. They honestly believe anyone is better than Jojo. Jojo was literally the best midlaner in the league in Spring, and a top-half mid during his worst split this summer.
For all his problems, Jensen and Palafox damn sure arent solutions, and no matter what they do, they will have the same problem of not having any idea how to actually play the game, but now they have a midlaner that loses lane to boot.
I honestly think C9 is going the way of TSM. I cant see this roster getting to another international event with only 2 spots available, without major changes and lightning in a bottle from someone who can lead like a Corejj. Fly and TL are already a cut above. If Jojo ends up on Dig with a better jungler and support, they will easily be competing vs this iteration of C9, and who knows if 100T gets better or not.
Its looking like dark days for c9 fans.
@@TheDestructodave520 Jojo has looked bad at various points in his career
If getting Palafox means giving the team better synergy to the team, you can damn well see them being at the top.
Being the best at your role isnt always the answer, team synergy matters more in the long run in pro play. @@TheDestructodave520
@TheDestructodave520 I mean what other options are out there for native mid landers? If they are keeping their imports then I think you almost have to grab Palafox/Insanity/ABlazeOlive and see if they can step up. I think both Insanity and Palafox have potential to do something with a better team and jungle.
I think the real issue is Vulcan, there aren't really any supports I feel good with them bringing in. But C9 needs a support who can shot call and be an engager.
Please have that call with LS on stream. It would be highly entertaining.
Just like every eu player should have a poster saying "YOU ARE NOT XPEKE" on his ceiling so it's the first thing he sees in the morning.
Every NA player should have one saying "YOU ARE NOT THAT GUY, PAL".
Every poster in LCS should be You are not Huni
1:29:36 ROFLs are the LoL replay file names. Riot is that cringe
C9 100% threw jojo under the bus just to get off his contract BUT I don’t have any sympathy for jojo here. The idea that c9 would get him only to purposely dump him 6 months later is beyond idiotic. Obviously they intended to keep him since they used their 2 import spots. The dude got the biggest contract in the league to be added to a team that’s should easily win the league on paper and has clearly been underperforming and playing less solo q. The fact the team in such a bad state and he’s still late/motivation issues just put a target on his back and no one is to blame but himself for that. Also all these former eg staff act like after getting a massive bag, put in a situation where he has to be a bigger leader, and teammates he might not necessarily get along with jojo is still the same bright eyed kid.
100%? you've been there or did jack tell you?
the real chosen one was Danny not Jojo. But we know how his tragic story went... we hate EG
as an american it is sad to see how much that NA rep you mention at 13:00 is just across the culture generally
I can't believe there is even a discussion on this. He is a professional, he is being paid to do a job, turning up on time is one of the minimums you should expect
reminds me of the golden days of western league when you'd make tons of these videos. This is your best kind of video imo, better than talk shows. Everyone's biased but you always give a pretty comprehensive and objective argument in these.
When my son doesn't want to do something, he often says I need to go toilet and just goes and plays on his phone in there
It is very reasonable that this is an 2 hour talk. There is so many details here and I think thorin did an insane job without overdoing it.
lol I totally forgot about Thorin for a while, so glad he's still around ,this was a fun banger episode
1:29:28 ROFLS are the file extension for League of Legends Replay files
another banger from the Esports historian
I think its also important to know what is considered late. I'm late to almost all work meetings by like 1-2 minutes.
In sports we say imagine the career he would have had if it weren't for the injuries in esports imagine what he would have done if he didn't have IBM
Love when thoorin pulls out the “shut the fuck up” to the hypocrites (still love kelsi but cmon bro)
The two questions I need answers is
1. Is it very hard to be flexible in the structure of the team? Especially if you get a "high profile player" that would be a poor fit to the team but still brought in because you are a "top tier org" and money
2. How hard is it to find like minded players who fit your org culture and structure? Obviously skill has to be factoried in, but it seems hard for orgs to gauge the personalities of players before signing
You have to have a coach that has a feasible vision and direction for his team. Then he has to find his core players and work with them to bring in the remaining pieces. A good example is what BeastCoast just did in R6 pro scene, going from never making a Major in 6 years to becoming Major champions in 1 split while completely rebuilding the team.
Part of the problem is their coach doesn't have a well worked out style that he can build. They need to start out like TL, find 1 style and get really good at that style then try and branch to other styles
What doesn't make sense about the toilet thing is, if you're his lawyer htf can you have a contract where he can be fired for cause due to known toilet issues
The LS part 😂
I got nothing but time Thorin, let's go!
I'd love to hear you talk more about LS/C9.. i was honestly shocked about how LS seemed to come out mostly positively (compared to c9) with the community
An org spends millions (+ time investment) to get a coach over from Korea + some of the players he wants.. only for things to be so bad only 2 weeks into him arriving in the USA.. they fell forced to sack him.. despite all of said investment and obvious backlash that would bring
To me its obvious he acted so unprofessionally it was never going to work even with time
But somehow the positive sentiment seemed to be with LS.. and people just memed C9 systems or making players go to the gym etc
I mean you can take one look at LS and realize hes going to behave unprofessionally. That guy is always gonna be a drama queen in any situation. No way in hell he was going to conform to any sort of professional setting.
The difference is, everyone knew that's how he was, they knew when they hired him, also the team was undefeated when he left and was super hyped and exciting to watch, so that's why he got a better look from the community. Well deserved in my opinion. With JoJo for me it just seems they didn't want to continue paying his massive salary through the end of the year and they got a way to kick him out
To me, it takes one player to sabotage a coach's plan, just like it takes one griefer to determine the outcome of a series. C9 has never won an international trophy. Even if they're crowded with talent, they're unable to reach top 2 at Worlds. It's time to stop excusing a veteran who has not made a finals appearance at Worlds, who is more likely to be mistaken for the success of their team, who has hit their skill ceiling years ago with multiple roster iterations, and who has the most reason to scapegoat other players to remain on the team with a big paycheck. To me, a coach would find this type of veteran a nightmare to work with as they can be the reason why they're let go without cause.
@Fabritox5 first of all they weren't undefeated.. they were like 3-1 and lost to the only good team at the time (TL) they had played.. it was nothing special for C9..
This was another thing people did to shit on c9 for sacking LS... by acting like omg it's so amazing C9 are beating teams with soraka mid.. when they were beating teams who were vastly gapped individually
IF c9 knew he would do the stuff that he supposedly did.. they wouldn't have signed him in the first place, I'd imagine??
How does it make logical sense to sign him and expect him to work normally (if as you say) they already knew about his behaviour
@@Snootz86 bro, they literally played with a sub the first weeks, and had issues with getting everyone in at the beginning, you are just ignoring a lot of facts just for the sake of argument, they played new things,fudge was midlane, it was hype, everyone was like, "well, wish we could see where they were headed, sadly c9 has their systems" so yeah, their record for what they got and how everything turned out was good. Also, you can go back and watch ton of videos from Thorin and everyone else at the time, c9 knew, they just were too rigid at the end
Hey @Thooorin , @DocRespawn who worked with Jojo uploaded a video too, maybe an interesting watch as well for context. It will probably not get seen much since he doesnt have the reach.
So typically companies council employees to come up with a plan to stop being late. Wake up 10 minutes earlier so you can leave earlier. Catch the bus earlier, you can even clock in 5 minutes early so you can read your emails, or prep your uniform. Maybe work out some scheduling to switch days so you have tike to go fix your car. Front part of a paycheck so they can pay for the car fixes.
If they still keep being late thats when its just an uncorrectable issue and you gotta let them go.
I haven't researched yet but that ehole late thing is bs. Just an excuse to get rid of him.
Great work on this one Thorin.
The likelihood is they actually wanted to fire him for something they couldn't fire him for and used being late
It's still a good enough reason to get fired for. Being late on the job is a no go at any professional environment. Being late affects everyone and everything. It's just not being late if you dive deeper on the effects it have on everyone.
@@misteryakamoto Not if its a medical reason.
@@arthurmarshall6825 you can’t just do whatever you want and blame it on your medical condition. Real world doesn’t work that way bud, no matter what social media thinks
@@arthurmarshall6825If that's preventing him from making it on time, then it should have been documented and brought up to the team before signing the contract. You need a proper documentation from a real MD with proper diagnosis. If there's none of that, Jojo still has no excuses to be late. Same thing before signing a contract at work. They will ask you if you have any disabilities that'll prevent you from meeting the terms and conditions of the job. C9 isn''t stupid. When signing that contract, you ABIDE to the terms and condition of the team. Meaning you agree to the demand of the job. My goodness man. Do you even have a job or are you ignorant on how the world works?
@@fdsafdsafdsafdsafd yeah but the ADA means companies can't fire people due to their medical condition if its an issue either.
21:30 I'm showing up early if I can socialize with a coffee in my hand. If not I'm showing up on time
My stomach flaring up just listening to this
Actually good video (not just angy).
It'd be cool if Thorin goes back and does a similar video regarding iwillDominates ban situation.
Some misleading ceo pay statements in this.
Costco ceo makes 325k in salary and 15 million in stock options. All ceos make salaries less than a mil basically because this income gets taxed more and it ties their total compensation to the company outcomes.
Banger video tho
RSUs or other stock options are usually also taxable income in most countries. However there are ways to pay out RSUs where the employee doesn't pay tax, cause the company covers it and such, so you're right, I just wanted to clarify :)
43 times and thats just when they started to keep track damn!
As someone with IBD, I don't let it slow me down, there are workarounds. Diapy up and get to it.
Your missing a key point thorin ( in assuming the LEC) is they have to actually be able to afford jojo even at a discount price. So no way in hell LEC teams are paying even 50% of premium that jack wants for jojo. So him to teb LEC is a pipe dream
This is exactly why Thorin is the goat, he doesnt hold back when it's time to criticize people he's friends with and he calls them out on their bullshit.
Loved that Chris Collinsworth reference lol
An excellent throwback to the classic Thorin videos! It’s clear that this is where you truly excel, so I hope we see more of these in the future.
Thorin, are they allowed to retroactively break the contract without some sort of written and exact ultimatum?
2022 worlds was in San Fran, not LA
I would love to live in a universe where this happens to TSM, just to see Thorin making fun of them.
Ripping into how they "let this happen FORTY-THREE TIMES"😂
being late this many times is unexcusable but I would still like to know how late he was.
was he late for around a minute or even under a minute most of the time or was he late for more than 15min.
Are you employed?? If you are 1 second late... you're late. It's completely unprofessional. Now life happens, and often... so excuses are a thing, but late is still late.
Apparently he was late more than the 43 times. They got fed up and that's when they started counting I'm assuming it's more more 15+ minutes of being late. Don't think most jobs care if you're just like 5 minutes late.
he was late enough for them to notice and start keeping count though...
@@jamesmunn576yes, and nearly every meeting simebody is alte for ~1min.
I hate it but there is a huge differnce if you barely dint make it or you are way too late.
i knew he had issues but this is kinda really bad cause as people stated he could follow a small set of rules to make sure he doesn't have that much issues with it on important days, we have had as u said really big stars in CS deal with it and overcome it.
The CEO of Costcos salary is ~500k. Jojo apologists, do you think jojo is worth more than the guy running Costco?
Idk I haven't seen the CEO of Costco in lane
They give the ceo around 10 to 15 mil in stock compensation annually if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, he is definitely overpaid. I can't imagine him generating anything close to 700k for c9.
Yep
why do we give a fuck about costco?
How much do the other C9 players make?
legendary content as always
If JoJo wanted to leave the team without having a buyout wouldn’t this making it easier to join a new team. I would think not paying his massive buyout is more off putting to other orgs that are already paying other stars than this scandal
Did thorin say he gets 700k per year?
Jojo was most paid in the entire league, blaber confirmed it on the sackdown
Allegedly
Let's be absolutely real here: if I showed up to my job late 43 times, it doesn't matter the reason. I'm getting fired. I'm probably getting fired long before the 43 times. This is the only industry where people will make excuses for people being downright disrespectful to their teammates and not respecting their time. If he DOES have medical issues preventing him being on time that often, he's either ignoring treatment, or he didn't discuss this with management to let them know this was going to happen regularly. No matter how you slice this, it's on Jojo. I think C9 just didn't want to immediately toss such a huge investment before they saw whether he was gonna produce results or not. He didn't, so they pulled the trigger and fired him for cause.
Nobody making the amount of money these guys are making has an excuse for not being professional enough to be ON TIME. If you have bathroom issues, you get up/get ready earlier and get to the meeting early. If you need to be excused, you ask to be excused. You don't just show up late over and over. Think of how much that throws off everyone else's schedules.
This is the dumbest take given what was in this video. Yes the reason DOES matter. ADA means companies can't fired people over medical reasons, they have to make accommedations first. And there is nothing in this video to even imply that C9 did. Why you would even think JoJo never told C9 his medical issues or would ignoring mystical treatment to cure him that doesn't exist? That along with suggesting idiotic simple solutions shows you have no idea what is going on. Allorim thinks he may have something similar to JoJo and for him his options were "be late" or "starve"! Getting up earlier isn't going to help with that.
That just means youre easily replaceable at your job
@@joeydennis7834 bruv uv never worked a day in ur life
@@davidum6974 oh yeah 100% for sure lil bro
Been waiting on this fire to drop
What about the big drug problem in pro scene no one wants to talk about
Jojo now the Kyler Murray of the LCS?
Analogy doesn't stand much as any NFL team will also try to get rid of their overpaid stars when they don't have results.
I used to watch entire lord of the rings on the toilet sometimes
What a crazy world we live in where professional gamers are seriously talking about their bowel movement in an open forum.
This one is a banger 🤣
The biggest mistake C9 make this whole year was not giving Mithy fully authority over the team to mandhandle them and make him feel scared of telling the true and letting the team concentrate on what really matters. This is why Inspired work everywhere he goes. He's allow to talk and being supported by the coaches to do so and speak his mind.
What is this dumbass system that only know how to lose. Why are teams wasting hours on yoga sections and workouts and gathering meetings to talk about feelings?. C9 need to drop this "system' bullshit baby sitting players and start copying a successful system and let the coaches be coaches and be hard on the players without having to be afraid of getting fired like they did with LS for questioning what the hell are we doing outside the game diminishing time from practicing and pursuing things to make the players better AT THE GAME.
Ironic enough LS got fired for permanently being late and leaving scrims early lmfao
While I agree for the most part the workouts and stuff aren't a bad idea. Being healthy makes you better at pretty much everything in life. I actually respect that aspect of it but it seems like c9 takes it way to far and babies everyone.
yeah mithy does that and see what happened on fnatic worlds run ruined the whole team cuz he watched chovy and forced nemesis to play velkoz wp
Bro i know everyone wants to milk the content out of this and it's fine, but honestly its so obvious they fired him because it was the best financial decision for them nased kn his salary (except for the fact they cant sell him now) just cutting loses
5 min before meeting starts U are there! Ur late 1 time ? Ur forgiven. Ur late a second time ur out. U wanna be a profesional or not?
speaking the truth
How many years it take you guys to make 750k?
Bottom line is Jack foolishly bought into the Jojo hype, then once he realized that he was duped, he had to find a way to get C9 out of that horrendous contract.
10/10 would be late with blaber useless jg too
orgs losing millions and going bust is what happens when kids run companies and have no grip on reality.
people being fired for being consistently late is what happens when adults are in charge.
For 750k starve
It is a bit wild for Kelsey Moser to come out and throw some oil on the fire if she never made an actual comment about the EG situation. It does seem like sometimes Jack gets the short end of the stick considering his willingness to accommodate players (not trying to step in the way of Jensen to TL, for example, even though Perks wasn't allowed to join fnatic for obvious reasons).
Didn't they ruin Danny's life or something
All this money and they cant hire a guy to tell him to stop eating fiber lol
Sounds like JoJo is full of shit.
I coached a challenger mid laner who was just as good as JoJo named MidIanehokage. But the difference was he was a medical student in college and as my life advice I told him he was much better off going into the medical field than Esports.
I think I am a great League Of Legends coach with wisdom.
Thorin, not sure if I would trust Jack's words at face value like that. Under the assumption that multiple former and current c9 members have no reason to corroborate on a lie about statements on social media, he's lied so many times on social media. Not only that he has dragged people into false statements for no reason.
Also I don't care who you are, if on your platform a former member is being accused of crimes when that's not the case you should correct that instead of letting those speculations continue.
There are also numerous players that have voiced legitimate complaints about c9 as an org. Including things you've criticized players for doing.
That being said great video as always appreciate your take on things.
Another banger
Yay league content ❤
NA and their overpriced imports smh...
Jojo needs to be better but how does C9 not bring any discipline at all until it’s too late? C9 has to take some of this blame for being too lax
Ufff I’m late to the video. 😢
If you're early you're on time, if you're on time you're late and if you're late you better not show up at all was a phrase i was raised on.
that's why you're a dork
This is how you be a professional and these idiots who don't agree with this is why NA will never win world's
There are diets to manage GI related diseases. Why didn’t they work with him on it
The theory I'd buy is that C9 didn't want to pay Jojo's massive contract so they could make other roster moves so using being late as an excuse, fired him.
Bingo. Corporate politics. They probably let him to believe he could be late but kept count
@@leaguefixesyourmatches8259so c9 should have kept him? Regardless of there being issues with the players work ethic?
@@luchito1337 who said that? what does the 3 6's in the c9 logo stand for fckface? 666
Y'all realize both situations can be true right? C9 regrets the contact AND JoJo is a problem
@@luchito1337 What issues with players work ethic? Dom's leak never mention work ethic. The only people talking about work ethic are those commenting with no idea whats going on and former EG people defending JoJo work ethic.
As a C9 fan I wanted Jojo OUT after spring. And really wanted him gone by end of summer. This is because he was reportedly turbo sprinting it in scrims and every clip or video or interview I’ve seen he’s not taking it seriously. He seemed incredibly complacent and he’s been underperforming. Good riddance Jojo
Not to mention this plays in to why Berserker was seen having a meltdown and getting frustrated. It was Jojo. Hard to get quality practice in when ur mid laner is sprinting it down constantly.
"stomach issues" bro had mad anxiety and crumbled under pressure, sad stuff. its hard to predict tho
so if they made worlds would this be happening right now?
I was late every day for 5 years, while admitting openly that I did it because "my time is more important" and everybody loved me still. There's more going on than the lateness here.
I really liked Kelseys perspective having coached Jojo. She explained that Jojo had an extremely high work ethic and was not late even remotely close to 43 times on EG. She pointed out that a lot of pros get in to esports because they don't fit in to the normal 9-5 style of structure and that just because they struggle with it doesn't mean they aren't putting in tons of work. It could be that the structure of C9 was just so much more strict than EG that Jojo just didn't function well under it. Not to mention the possible medical issues that can always throw off timings.
My thought is, how late is late? In every company I've worked for in the last 20 years we had a 7min leeway before being considered "late" but I could easily see teams counting 1min late as late and that's definitely their preference to do so.
I think a big issue with C9 was that Jojo is historically a very aggressive player who often puts himself in questionable positions to try and play the line of inting and playmaking. For some reason C9 all of a sudden became insanely passive while Jojo was still attempting to bait plays. I remember an interview earlier in the year with Jojo that mentioned he liked playing Zeri because he could do things like E forward and force the enemy to try and jump on him and then immediately flash out to safety while his teammates counter the engage. Just seemed like that playstyle just stopped happening. I've never really considered Jojo the true carry (as far as resources and damage goes) of any team he was on. I always considered him the playmaker. He would make those insanely impactful split moment plays and let his teammate that got all the resources in the game take over from there. You can see really good examples of this in the first season of the year on his Neeko or Azir. Kind of feels like C9 lost their identity and stopped forcing resources on Berserker and stopped having Jojo on playmakers but maybe they just got too lost in trying to play the meta instead of working with their strengths.
Yep, the company I worked for we had 10 minutes to set up our PC. Get logged into everything and read emails before helping customers. As long as we were there talking to customers at 10 after you were fine because it didn't affect the business. You just ended up costing yourself a few minutes of pay and had to rush to get everything set up.
The reason why Jojo was never late that many in EG is because Rigby was babysitting him, he even confirmed it in his tweet.
@@kaly8329 didn’t rigby leave EG in 2022 before Kelsey was their coach. I’m talking about the Kelsey quote where she said he didn’t have an issue which would have been her time as the coach starting in Nov of 2022
The Stephen a smith of esports
How can you disrespect Thorin like this?
If he had shown up late only 42 times they would have won worlds for sure
They gave him too big of a contract. He wants out of the team and now they're looking for an excuse to get out of paying him. It has nothing to do with being late or anything else.
I never understood the line of thinking of, hey let’s just sell this person to the LCS so they don’t beat us in LEC. This is why LEC is so shit right now because they’re losing good players lol.
Based on corporate culture and previous work ethics story about Jojo (always spoken as a hard worker), I think C9 did a typical corporate HR hit job to remove a person. Don't get me wrong, Jojo probably got complacent and probably was slacking at least a little.
But i think C9 did a hit job not only to get out of paying him, but i bet someone in HR or executive position just hated Jojo for most likely no reason.
Well if jojo being late half an hour feels a lot worse when the dude is make $350 an hr…
I disagree. If you were to pay a huge amount of money than any worker in the industry, you'd expect him to perform better than anyone else or atleast show he takes his role in the lcs seriously. After watching his performance against 100t & fly quest, I'd say it's reasonable
Hit job? Bro didn't do anything while being the most payed player in the league and he can't even show up on time? Bro should be sent back NACL until he learn how to be a professional and take his job seriously.
caedrel had this angle of jojo's contract sneakily having things like being late just a minute or less and they used it to get him out for his price is way too high. I think I agree that they used this to throw him under the bus.
highlighting the toxic work culture of asian countries doesn't negate any complaints any westerner may have about their jobs
Wherever he goes, he will place higher than c9 10/10 times. Fuck their workouts and blame-game bullshit. It's jensen all over again.
Except Flyquest won after they got rid of Jensen....
Didnt watch cause thooorin knows NOTHING about LoL..but I stand by players. (Fuck orgs)
Cringe take. This is why NA players are lazy they think like you lol
I knew Jack was a ruthless businessman but I didn't know he was this petty. My hate for this dogshit organization keeps getting justified every year.
I don't like C9 but late 43 times and not winning anything is just pathetic. Jojo overrated so much dude isn't even a professional he should go back to NACL from that performance.
@@Obiwankenobi-w5q oh no doubt Jojo is a clown. But I just can't help but laugh at Jack leaking this shit to Dom so he can get the court of public opinion on his side like the high school days.
@@Rusty_Justice Every org does this so idk what makes it different that C9 did it.
@@Obiwankenobi-w5q no they don't. Not every team purposely airs their dirty laundry to the world so they can save face. TL didn't do it with Jatt and Summit. Jack didn't do it with LS.