The new version is such a big upgrade. The game plays so much smoother and the villains are still challenging without being as obnoxious as certain ones were previously.
The DE is *such* a big upgrade for me. The game is shorter, our turns run smoother, and I’ve mostly found new players get sucked in sooner because we can get to the fun stuff more quickly. I can’t disagree with your criticisms - discover is definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting - but the upsides here eclipse any negatives for us.
I think the biggest change is that in EE, the First few sets of player decks leaned into "Strong gimmick, but clear lacking area that needs other players to cover". Legacy just doesn't get enough action/draws, AZ can outright kill himself if not careful, Tachy has no amps and gets walled by damage reduction, ect ect. It's very clearly a 'team' game where each deck -needs- another deck to help it's shortcoming so they can then preform well, while still dealing with the villain and environment. DE just cuts out the middleman, and makes each deck work -directly- on it's own. This in turn means it's far easier to just pick up, use a deck, and not feel like you're holding everyone back because you're the one who needs all of the draws, yet in turn I can share that feeling where each deck starts to feel -too- similar in turn. It gets to a point where in DE everyone has some sort of discover, draw, and extra play in their kit by default, and while gimmicks are more consistent, they're also not as overwhelming. Doing things like 5 decks worth of cards under bunker's omnicannon isn't something DE's going to let happen, along with stuff like 'twist the either' inf. combos with AZ or Setback "Swings every target for 30+ damage". I think in the end I can fully understand that EE really allowed for some explosive plays once you learned the decks with the best synergy, but I think DE works rather well to just pull out at a random friend gathering and get people into playing it and gives -just enough- of a taste of 'learning what the deck does' to get people interested in doing more. I also feel like the critical events are rather good at times to help push players to have gotten to grips with how the game works to start thinking about team comps and who's best to use when. Alpha's great when a deck's flooding the field with minions, but far less so when you want controlled attacks vs beefy targets. Things like that I feel is where the real legs of DE lay.
Only if I could sell my all in original Ed . Can’t see spending the money on a new version when I played it one time . Not sure why I bought everything . Wonder if I can get 125 bucks for my all in first Ed
I absolutely love the base game definitive edition - But Rook City Renegades I've been really struggling to be motivated to play and i think you really nailed why with the amount of discover/shuffling faff there is, especially with the villains - I'm pretty happy to have a complex character, but I would so much prefer to have more super basic villains to face ^^. I did back Disparation but RCR really made me hesitate.
Didn't know about this re-release. Only familiar with the computer game implementation, makes me wonder if they're going to try to introduce these changes to the computer version. Some of the early characters feel very "starter" and are hard to pick next to many of the newer ones. Also, 27 tokens? Haha! That must have been something. I will say having the computer reshuffle for you automatically probably changes how this game feels quite a bit. I wonder if modding to set aside facedown cards of a type that you know will be discovered might speed things up a bit. It would change the odds, so I can't see everyone wanting to adopt it, but maybe it'd allow for at least starting out a bit quicker? I dunno
They have stated Definitive Edition will be made into a new version of the app but it is still quite a long way out. They were working on sentinels of earth prime first which is a kind of off shoot stand alone expansion.
Swivering on getting Sentinels DE as I've got Marvel Champions. However after getting a few hero packs I realised how much a money pit I was going to be. I don't particularly enjoy the deck building aspect either. Hence my interest in Sentinels....
Excellent in depth comparison: They oversimplified things too much. And the heroes they changed seem to work similar to each other. Your Setback example is a really good example: they removed all token manipulation for some reason and token manipulation, while fiddly, was really interesting. They should have kept the tokens but made the character more consistent. Harpy was a really good token manipulation character from what I played in the app, so it can be done properly (I'm really sad they changed her to not use tokens)
I've not played much of the original (didn't get along with it, DE graphic design makes the new one way better for me) but damn hearing about the old setback sounds really cool and I wish I could have an old-skool setback deck for DE 😄
The new version is such a big upgrade. The game plays so much smoother and the villains are still challenging without being as obnoxious as certain ones were previously.
Spite topped that list, also Wager Master which was almost unplayable.
@@OneStopCoopShop 100% agree on both of those.
Jason, I'm here for as much Everdell and SotM content as you're willing to put out. Love these games, and you're extremely entertaining to watch play.
I appreciate that, thank you! Sentinels vs. Chairman coming soon.
The man who is a chair….
The DE is *such* a big upgrade for me. The game is shorter, our turns run smoother, and I’ve mostly found new players get sucked in sooner because we can get to the fun stuff more quickly. I can’t disagree with your criticisms - discover is definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting - but the upsides here eclipse any negatives for us.
Good point about new players getting to the good stuff sooner.
I think the biggest change is that in EE, the First few sets of player decks leaned into "Strong gimmick, but clear lacking area that needs other players to cover". Legacy just doesn't get enough action/draws, AZ can outright kill himself if not careful, Tachy has no amps and gets walled by damage reduction, ect ect. It's very clearly a 'team' game where each deck -needs- another deck to help it's shortcoming so they can then preform well, while still dealing with the villain and environment. DE just cuts out the middleman, and makes each deck work -directly- on it's own. This in turn means it's far easier to just pick up, use a deck, and not feel like you're holding everyone back because you're the one who needs all of the draws, yet in turn I can share that feeling where each deck starts to feel -too- similar in turn. It gets to a point where in DE everyone has some sort of discover, draw, and extra play in their kit by default, and while gimmicks are more consistent, they're also not as overwhelming. Doing things like 5 decks worth of cards under bunker's omnicannon isn't something DE's going to let happen, along with stuff like 'twist the either' inf. combos with AZ or Setback "Swings every target for 30+ damage".
I think in the end I can fully understand that EE really allowed for some explosive plays once you learned the decks with the best synergy, but I think DE works rather well to just pull out at a random friend gathering and get people into playing it and gives -just enough- of a taste of 'learning what the deck does' to get people interested in doing more. I also feel like the critical events are rather good at times to help push players to have gotten to grips with how the game works to start thinking about team comps and who's best to use when. Alpha's great when a deck's flooding the field with minions, but far less so when you want controlled attacks vs beefy targets. Things like that I feel is where the real legs of DE lay.
Only if I could sell my all in original Ed . Can’t see spending the money on a new version when I played it one time . Not sure why I bought everything . Wonder if I can get 125 bucks for my all in first Ed
I absolutely love the base game definitive edition - But Rook City Renegades I've been really struggling to be motivated to play and i think you really nailed why with the amount of discover/shuffling faff there is, especially with the villains - I'm pretty happy to have a complex character, but I would so much prefer to have more super basic villains to face ^^.
I did back Disparation but RCR really made me hesitate.
Didn't know about this re-release. Only familiar with the computer game implementation, makes me wonder if they're going to try to introduce these changes to the computer version. Some of the early characters feel very "starter" and are hard to pick next to many of the newer ones. Also, 27 tokens? Haha! That must have been something. I will say having the computer reshuffle for you automatically probably changes how this game feels quite a bit.
I wonder if modding to set aside facedown cards of a type that you know will be discovered might speed things up a bit. It would change the odds, so I can't see everyone wanting to adopt it, but maybe it'd allow for at least starting out a bit quicker? I dunno
They have stated Definitive Edition will be made into a new version of the app but it is still quite a long way out. They were working on sentinels of earth prime first which is a kind of off shoot stand alone expansion.
Swivering on getting Sentinels DE as I've got Marvel Champions. However after getting a few hero packs I realised how much a money pit I was going to be. I don't particularly enjoy the deck building aspect either. Hence my interest in Sentinels....
This one totally satisfied my need for a superhero card game.
Excellent in depth comparison:
They oversimplified things too much. And the heroes they changed seem to work similar to each other. Your Setback example is a really good example: they removed all token manipulation for some reason and token manipulation, while fiddly, was really interesting. They should have kept the tokens but made the character more consistent. Harpy was a really good token manipulation character from what I played in the app, so it can be done properly (I'm really sad they changed her to not use tokens)
I've not played much of the original (didn't get along with it, DE graphic design makes the new one way better for me) but damn hearing about the old setback sounds really cool and I wish I could have an old-skool setback deck for DE 😄
@@ChrisSmithSmooth He seems cool but actually isn't. He's very Underpowered. Harpy, on the other hand, is fun and powerful.
@@Kentchangar Disagree. Old Setback swung games for me. Far more fun than the new one… when it worked :). Feel the same about AZ.
@@ShelfStories We never got Setback to work. Can you elaborate how he swung games?
@@Kentchangar He can’t do it by himself. You need the team to coordinate, kinda like how Ra can hit AZ and pump more damage out that way.