If you get bored from the comment response sections you can skip to 58:24 where I try to be as honest as possible with you about my feelings on the DLC. This video should serve as my final statement about Shadow of the Erdtree. I think I greatly angered the Fromsoft community with my last video, and although I still agree with the bulk of my criticisms I now think I should’ve delivered them in a way that was less polarizing. I tried to do that with this video, but it is difficult for me to communicate in a way that isn’t upsetting to those who disagree with me because of how emotional I can get. Sorry to all the people who were expecting an, “In Defense of Shadow of the Erdtree” video because it will not come (unless it’s a four minute April fools joke video). I only made the “In Defense of Elden Ring Boss Design” video to correct misinformation spread by me and other RUclipsrs, and to show people that they can have fun with the bosses as rhythm challenges despite the learning process being boring. Shadow of the Erdtree repeats the same central mistake from the base game’s boss design of having too much trial and error while offering what I see as much worse exploration and less interesting legacy dungeons. If you disagree that’s fine. I just want to clear up the confusion. And to clear up more confusion, me saying in my critique that I wished Shadow of the Erdtree didn't exist never meant that I was saying the DLC was terrible. All it meant was that I would rather have Fromsoft release a higher quality title after multiple years of development, and that Shadow of the Erdtree could be significantly better if they took a few more years to make into a full sequel with reset progression trees and more quality content in the open world. To address one more thing about Joseph Anderson, what he said specifically about waterfowl dance is this: "It’s hard to take this seriously, even though swear to God I really try, when some people take these talking points and run with them so far that they’ll defend waterfowl blade when again, it doesn’t even have a developer intended way of dealing with it when up close… It is very difficult to have a conversation about any possible troublesome moves in the game when the argument is because you can xbox 360 around her at the start of waterfowl or throw a frost pot that it is ‘technically avoidable therefore skill issue therefore get good therefore stop yapping.’” I believe there is a developer intended way to dodge it up close. You run away after hitting Malenia and jump as it almost reaches you, although rolling can work as a worse substitute. I'm not saying that waterfowl dance is good, I'm just saying that he was missing a piece of information in his video. My larger issue with how Joe presented his argument is that he only used one piece of boss evidence to support his claim that he still dislikes many base game bosses, regardless of whether or not that evidence is true.
@@feebleking21 Honestly dude you’re entitled to your opinion & if a bunch of man children were upset for you giving it very valid and warranted criticism then that’s out of your control. I enjoyed the video and this one also. At least you have the guts to put what you feel out there for people to see, the sweats who are in the comments salty just hiding behind their username would never be grown enough to do that. Keep your head high Feeble King. The real ones who matter will always be around 🫡
@@Plz8662 I've read the comment section and most of the 'upset man children' were pointing out mistakes or politely disagreed with the author's opinion. Yes, this dlc has its flaws, but for me, it is a far stretch to call it the worst when I start to compare
@@upsideproductions2 lol my comment was about feeble going into a dlc disregarding all content aside bosses. When a part of why dlcs are so fun is due to the different build options and such by disregarding all of that it's missing the point that is one of the major pillars elden ring itself is designed around build diversity. There is a weapon for every build style every combination. You can have full spell builds, full buf builds shields are much better and a major component of many builds. Ashes of war create diverse options for many problems that originally you could only dodge roll for. Like to disregard that is like not caring about the old hunters dlc amazing weapons or how it's update added more multiplayer options. And only caring about the 5 bosses of which only 2 I feel deserve their high praise. Idk I feel if you do that your already shouting to the heavens that the game isn't want you want so now your going to complain about it. When so many people are having fun and loving their time. Feeble comes in and says your having fun wrong. He sounds exactly like the guy who says beating game while blindfolded is the only way to really play the game. Like compare rusty or demod and how they criticize the game they have all the same major criticism except they don't act like they are beyond fault and still have fun with the content provided. Feeble doesn't even seem like he enjoys soul games anymore unless he is doing a challenge run which the games will not provide for in every context and its unreasonable to think so.
I mean are you really a friend if you didn't give a pass for your dudes personal war crime level takes 🤣 That's his personality and it still not a crime yet so it's alright overall.
i recommend you source joe's "subjectivity is implied" video. i know that he influenced you but that section is rough, man. you shouldn't take his words as your own, at least mention him.
Just blatant plagiarism of the person is "glazing" instead of actually responding to. Dont worry next vid he will gaslight you saying he changed the words so its ok and you're harrasing him.
Considering it was developed in less than 2.5 years, it was kind of a masterpiece to begin with. A flawed masterpiece just like the base game. A DLC that introduces 8 new weapon types, 10 story bosses, several mini bosses, a huge new map with more verticality than ever and even some straight up new mechanics like the Sekiro style deflecting is wild.
I don't understand this whole "responding" culture among RUclipsrs who review or critique From's games. It's almost like there's some weird competition over whose opinion is correct... when critique should just be about putting your critical thoughts out there earnestly and eloquently, and that's that. I guess it does fit into the whole general insecurity and ego that permeate this developer's community like almost none else...
hate the kind of baseless speculation into why the developers made decisions(like keeping torrent off in elden beast for two years then turning it on). you can not ever know why the developers intent without them saying themselves. it’s equally likely that they heard the criticism and decided to change it to match, or that they just came to the conclusion it was better with torrent available over time, but of course it’s better for your video if they did this on purpose to make it harder at the cost of quality, which you have no way of knowing and is complete speculation. assuming the worst 90% of the time is not “constructive criticism” and is just as toxic as denying criticism to begin with.
Let me start off by saying some of your criticism is valid (from an objective standpoint) like the empty areas that I wished had more content like the finger ruins, cerulean coast etc. and the mediocre rewards, and some of your personal gripes are understandable but there are somethings you as a player need to keep in mind as well. Let me clarify by saying I am not trying to attack you personally and I understand they are your opinion but as someone who makes video criticism you need to take in to account opinions other than your own. The tree sentinels present in the DLC appears as a lazy reskin if solely focusing on gameplay but lore wise the are Marika's knights protecting her hometown (this shows that you should consider some explanation other than your own as to why things are they way they are in the game - tangent this is also one of the reasons I love the game as gameplay and story are mixed). Also I think @IggyTthunders makes a great point of why you are getting so much backlash for your videos. Another thing while I agree that From should start moving in a different direction I still enjoy the current formula and if you don't then that is your problem not the developers. They are making a product they are proud of, if you don't enjoy it that's not their fault ("A game for everyone is a game for no one") . You are also very reductive in some of the criticism of people telling you to try other options such as spirit ashes etc. If you don't want to use them that is your choice but understand that they are there to be used and by not using them you are putting yourself in a difficult situation. On the rewards you talk a lot about not finding something you can use due to build but as many people have said this has always been the case - why not try different build (even if its just a new playthrough that one of the fun things of this game the anticipation of trying new things and in my case getting more story). Another criticism I will point out is that you say runes are no longer a reward because of softcap but most softcaps are 60 while your character shows stats in the 40s. last thing Ill say, you are not getting this much flak because the fan base is a cult, you are getting it due to people not agreeing with your statement that you put forth as facts. Your title is a good example the first part is objective but you try and correct it by saying to me which in subjective these two parts of a single line are at odds with one another and makes the viewer feel like you disingenuous (trying to retro actively cover yourself). You could have made this whole video just about your problems with the DLC (while still taking into consideration other perspectives because that is how valid criticism is formed) and I think you would have gotten less flak (or at least less valid).
I think what i hated the most was just coming across low tier upgrade materials no reason to come across smiting 1 and 2 when i can purchase them 10 mins into a fresh save
I would agree but the thing is a lot of people didn't find those on their first blind playthroughs. In the future, not everybody who starts the DLC does so after combing the entire map for 2 years straight to prepare OP endgame builds (most often with the help of guides). The smithing stone 1-6 and somber 1-4 bell bearings are hidden in optional side dungeons that require you to spot a small cave on a cliff wall. I think these rewards were added so the people who hit the DLC and find a cool weapon will be able to use them, especially those who play blind or start the game 5 years from now.
@@eser8167So cater to the minority that get to the dlc with low tier weapons instead of the majority that have finished the game and had their characters leveled up with max or close to max level weapons before the dlc came out? Sounds wack go me.
A lot of the core issues like too much empty space stem from the worst parts of the base game like mountain top of the giants. I think the poor rewards, more copy paste, and more empty space in the DLC made these issues much worse for me.
Agreed. I wouldn't want a Dark Souls game with Elden Ring's boss design, and Elden Ring is four times bigger. Elden Ring attack patterns are extremely unintuitive. The intended method of avoiding damage should be immediately obvious. Sekiro introduced more than just blocking and dodging, so it introduced the Perilous Attack system where you're expressly told that you can't merely block the next incoming attack and that you must take another action. You're lying if you tell me that jumping over that one Maliketh attack is intuitive. (yes you *can* roll it, but jumping is way easier *if* you know to do it, and that's a big if.)
I never really liked base game elden ring it was tied with ds2 as my least favorite fromsoft game and i never got the hype for it, I expected the same from the dlc, but it turned out to be my favorite dlc they've ever made and I don't really know why
I mean you are the one who assumes that every player who likes these games attach thier self worth to them and is therefore dumb which is pretty stupid in itself
I think Joe’s point about waterfowl dance is that there doesn’t seem to be an intended way to dodge it point blank. Is the intended solution really supposed to be “hit her once and only once and then run the fuck away because she might do a move with no other recourse that will wipe you out if you don’t”? If that’s seriously the case, then that is a whole different issue in my opinion because then you are playing the entire fight passively in fear of the ever-looming threat that is waterfowl dance. A move should not be so powerful and unavoidable that you constantly have to run away from the boss whenever there’s a chance they *might* do it
Absolutely agree. As someone once said (and I was saying it too) no solution to this move that is presented in the game doesn't seem to be a developers intended way to avoid it. They just dumped this move in the game, didn't test it whatsoever and hoped that players will get around this somehow (and we did), that's not gamedesign.
@@esincorporated6123 it's not when you master circling around. One day, in the distant future I will make a guide to it and call it something like "The ultimate guide how to dodge waterfowl dance" but in a nutshell you can do it on medium load, without locking off and you're rolling through her, not away, and then make additional roll in whatever direction. It's pretty consistent when you don't mess up and take only chip damage if a little bit late. If you start circling preemptively it works absolutely perfect (and you can predict it on the 1st phase since it's scripted).
@@jubei7259 yeah, it's stupid unfair and tedious mechanic that is not even justified by lore, very cheap and artificial way to ramp up the difficulty. And this ability working through the shield not only makes shield strategy obsolete in this fight but it also is absolutely nonsensical since she isn't hurting you, she's only scraping the metal, why the f is she stealing your life by that?
"I will never use" this is the key words here. I personally enjoyed most of the crafting items that i could use and have fun with, same shit people complained about spirit ashes when you finish a dungeon, i didnt use any but it is still a reward for people who use it, there is no way you can make every build equally happy in a *game*.
@@percifio1626 Crafting systems in general suck. Instead of giving me a firebomb here's one ingredient, and then an hour later here's another ingredient, and then later another ingredient. And now I can open a menu click a button and spawn it into existence. That's so much fun 😂
@@NewSorpigal1 Or it’s just an asinine conclusion? Perfectly fine to critique the DLC and say it’s not perfect. Nothing is. But then concluding with “worst DLC they’ve ever made” (they’ve literally made a $15 DLC with one area and two bosses before) is quite a reactionary take. No? And no amount of “I meant all DLCs packed together for each game” will nullify the clickbaity nature of that statement.
@@zaynthemane yea i think people are willing to think that past ones get passes by virtue ot not being as relavant. Like my hot take aside ashes dks artorias is easily the second worst dlc. It has three distinct areas, with the shortest being the only one with actual places to explore and hidden fun things to discover. The bosses are the only thing holding it up and thats only becouse base game dks i think has some of the most underwhelming bosses as a package. There is reason ornstein and smough are the only bosses from the base game ever talked as of they accomplished somthing great. (Though i think the gargoyles is under apreciated). Like just the catacomb dungeons from this dlc are better than the whole dlc areas of the worst. A lot of people just cant get over that the overwolrd os meant to be a cool set peice vs like the main gimmick.
@@NewSorpigal1 I understand that that's why I understand why there isn't a large vocal community of people saying hey this is some B's like when they did dark souls remastered and didn't even fix many bugs. I just find it funny that the concept of having fun in the dlc by interacting and exploring even if sometimes not the greatest it is somehow being claimed to be among the worst dlcs. When in reality it's areas are among the best of any dlc. Sure you can argue bosses. But the only area of a dlc I felt more involved with and satisfied with was sunken city. Most dlc areas and enemies up tend to have the same problems as elden rings more problematic ones. Except elden has a lot more content spread over it. So while some enemies such as furnace golems are stupid. People forget adjudicator giants from ringed City are worse. We have the horned warriors, who are almost always by themselves, vs Alley way of the big bois and angel firing decks. I like ringed City but it's bosses and side paths are doing all the heavy lifting of making it good. The legacy dungeon of the shadow keep is among my favorite areas to explore given it seems to have infinite books and crannies and a variety of ways to explore it. Also feeble is among has become an ultra jaded purist. Bro went in said I don't care about any new content only bosses and the scadu system. Which is entirely a difficulty slider. And like if I whent in to bloody dark souls and said naw this game is trash because the bosses are underwhelming most would rightfuly laugh at such a reductive point. Even feeble in his sl1 runs considers bosses the only metric worth considering which is just never been the case. Areas and standard enemies are more important to general health of a game. It's a part of why dks2 scholar feels worse is by adding so many additional enemies it makes areas feel badly designed. Also while it's cool that artorias is as good as it is. Still doesn't help it's last area is one where enemies can one shot or tickle you to death.
My issue with the original video was calling the people who like the dlc and defend it, "cult like." Like, dude, their just defending something they like.
The community has a lot of people that just defend everything fromsoft does despite their games having actual objective issues. Those are the cult like individuals. Pretending they don't exist is disingenuous.
@@kenethernandez6246 I just find making fun of fanbases in a review of the game itself very childish. Granted some are warrented, like the Undertale fandom, but you can't really say its a lot of people when a 90% of the fanbase is fine. If anything your giving the few toxic people more power then they deserve by just making fun of them then you would ignoring them.
@@kenethernandez6246 If anything pretending they don't exist is the best possible solution since, in the end, all these people crave is attention. Ignoring them might make them see how big the internet is and realize there opinion isnt as important as they thought. You have to be really selfcl centered to not think that after that.
I don't think there's a single game fandom that is more cult like than that of fromsoft games. Under EVERY video critique of their games you're bound to find multiple npc comments saying stuff in the vein of "skill issue, git gud" disregarding any actual points. You must have noticed it, unless you're one of them.
@@BrovarSpirytusI think you're taking it too seriously. Most people say it just for the memes. Me and my friends say it all the time to each other, even though we have a lot of problems with elden ring
I don't agree with the rewards section. You are basically saying that you only care for the rewards and not for the experience the catacombs/dungeons the game can provide. So would a bad dungeon be converted into a good one if they gave you 10 fragments at the end? (If that's the case then Gaius is the best boss of the game). Because in my opinion the catacombs in the DLC were a huge improvement from the base game and them not having fragments at the end of them doesn't automatically turn them into boring for me.
@@Stinkymoe ok main game catacombs are mot that bad they are just as mid as mid can be its so completely inoffensive while absolutely not memorable. I wouldnt categorize them as horrid, its just so goddamn mid.
Well I agree with you that you should experience all of the dlc on your first time through, there’s still the factor of replay ability. I liked experiencing the catacombs and all the other stuff about it but after that I’m not gonna do the catacombs every time I go to ng+. He’s right in that many of the main fights should have honestly given you fragments since boss fights are kinda how you progress and their really good so yeah.
@@Stinkymoe The base game catacombs and caves had an issue of being repetitive which is a valid criticism. Most reused the same copy and pasted layouts and segments. The way you worded your complaint makes me not want to take your opinion seriously since it doesn't seem genuine and lacks context. Fromsoft actually listened and handmade all the dlc caves and catacombs so they offer more unique experiences. Some don't require boss kills to complete either unlike all the base game ones.
You are correct that making the mini dungeons more rewarding would not make the content good for me. It would only be what I see as accomplishing the bare minimum. To make exploration good I would need the map to be smaller, the mini dungeon bosses to be more interesting, and for those mini dungeons to give substantial rewards for all builds. I would enjoy the game a good bit more if they patched bosses to drop scadutree fragments, but it's only one step. The experience of running around empty fields finding reskinned overworld bosses from the base game needs to go as well (in my opinion). And no, I do not think Gaius is the best boss in the game, although I do think he is one of the only ones that accomplishes the bare minimum of having good extrinsic rewards for all builds. That alone doesn't make him better than Messmer, but I also think Messmer would be even better if I got 2 scadutree fragments for beating him.
Is the problem with delayed attacks the memorization part? I am confused since this is how I thought everyone learned even normal attacks. Is what you want to have attacks that are purely able to be dodged the first or second time upon seeing them for the first time? The funnest part is learning how a boss works to truly master it, and even when a boss has a move that you can very clearly dodge, you still have to memorize when that move is gonna come out so you can be prepared, which is not different from a delayed attack. I think it's the perfect way to increase difficulty naturally, since it's the same system as before, memorizing the next move that will come. It is even more hair raising having to suppress your instincts of wanting to dodge but waiting until the right moment to do so, much like having to suppress panic rolling so that each roll becomes deliberate. Ofc this is just one aspect of the boss movesets which I just particularly like, there are a ton of other mechanics that go into it that could be critiqued.
I wouldn't say that's the issue. It's relying heavily on delayed attacks to create an artificial difficulty. Some delays are fine but when everything has a delay it shows either a lack of creativity or effort to make better enemy attacks that don't depend of delays to create difficulty. Older games had challenging attack patterns. Now it's challenging attack timings and the switch up is not appreciated by many people.
@@kenethernandez6246exactly, I started NG+ today and hadn’t fought Margitt in a while. He absolutely dogwalked me the first time because honestly 80% (EIGHTY PERCENT) of his attacks are OVERLY delayed attacks that make no sense. Why is the boss raising their hand for 5s as though stretching only to randomly move into a 7-hit ultra fast combo?!?! It is STUPID
I think the biggest issue with this dlc could have been avoided if they decided to make it more in line with their previous dlcs by making multiple shorter dlcs rather than one huge big one like this. It feels like they were trying to make an entire new Elden Ring game with how many new weapons types, consumables, and crystal tears they added, but because of how big they wanted to make it they ended up not having enough overall content to fit into the giant scope of the game. I think they were tying to do too much all at once, and because of that they ended up falling short in a little too many areas. My opinions of the dlc have only gotten more aggressive the more I played it, and the things I disliked I now hate, but the things I liked I now love. Some of the bosses I love, some of them I despise, but the entire time I've spent playing this dlc has only made me wish more and more that this was a smaller more linear dlc like how they did previously, rather than a giant new open world that is so big it just ends up being exhausting to explore. They tried something new and I respect it, but I really hope they look at this and decide to go back to how they made their previous dlcs
@@feebleking21 I would have loved that. They could have spent all their time making shadow keep the best legacy dungeon in the game. But for me that's probably Leyndell Capital. Would have gladly paid for just shadow keep if they focused their entire development on it
@@austin0_bandit05it brings his opinion which he is allowed to state. Im sure somewhere in this video feeble asked commenters for their opinions on the dlc as well. Haven’t watched yet but this happens in like every video ever
@@slothorne8222 But why state it and lend nothing to the discussion? Feeble makes an hour long analysis and your contribution is "I liked it"? His opinion is fine and I dont actually care he stated it randomly but pretending to be oblivious as to why it would irk people is disingenuous
Yo fr. I love this game. But some of these Elden Ring fans need to chill with the blind love they have for the game. It's a fact that this DLC has way too many empty spaces... This should be taken as positive feedback. From Soft can take this feedback and make an even better game in the future. By staying loyal and not calling out issues with the game. They are actively making the game worse.
Can’t explain how underwhelming it was going from one empty, pointless area to another. The most annoying part was Cerulean coast being one of the best looking areas they’ve ever made and there is absolutely nothing to do there.
Omg why are you doubling down on the build variety point AHHHHH lmfao. You being stubborn and not liking 95% of what fromsoft is offering is not a them problem thats a you problem. Theres nothing wrong with not liking Souls games especially more challenging modern ones. At the core theyre simple action rpgs that push limited mechanics to the max. If youre not big on that and want an action focused game with great combos this just aint that game. And while i understand peoples point about the empty open world. I dont get why its a problem here but not for shadow of the collosus when both games are aiming for similar feels.
Or hell Nier or Breath of the Wild. I'd argue the Metroidvania style open world in Shadow is far more interesting than either of those games even if there's downtime. That's just a consequence of open world.
Because in shadow of the collossus it gives you a feeling of solitude. You’re the only living being asides from some small birds and other animals thatre in the ruins and wilds of a strange land. It builds up the majesty of these towering beasts all the more. In elden ring I see a dragon for the third time in the wild and just sigh knowing it’ll have the same move set and weaknesses of most other dragons. Same for any other roaming boss. It doesn’t feel unique or memorable.
@snubcaboose132 yeah while I get that idk the souls series has definitely always captured that same solitude maybe not quite as bleak as something like Collosus but ultimately you are one of very few "sane" people in a long lost world. A world that has driven its population to the brink of existence. You look back at even DS1 and you get that same feeling just in smaller bite sized chunks
@violetjune5046 The emptiness isn't due to a lack of Npcs, though. When you travel through the empty world of sotc, the end goal of that is to fight a big monster, that's it. You get zilch for doing it. Elden Ring is an Rpg that uses other incentives alongside the promise of a boss. Sure its pretty, but when you spend 10 minutes mashing B through a pretty field with reused enemies, just to get a recipe book that let's you craft a pot that makes enemies think of flowers and shit themselves or something, it feels empty because for everyone who isn't going to use that in their build, it is empty.
Feel I need to mention that not getting anything in shadow of the colossus isn't a bad thing, the game is explicitly about killing the 12 colossus, and there are never any hints or promises at other weapons or cool items. (Outside of the optional lizards that give you more stamina)
The fromsoft community has some really great people but being involved in various groups across the internet has shown me how single-minded and toxic the fanbase can be at times, especially with how big it's gotten due to Elden Ring. I can tell a lot of the comments here didn't finish the video (which he ironically mentions). I will never understand how weird people get when it comes to this game and criticism against it.
yeahhh just call the fanbase toxic when they show your argument is flawed and you need to approach the game with a different mindset because it just doesn't want you to approach it exactly like you did to other games of the same creator. Exact same thing happened with Sekiro, everybody cried ''too hard'' without ever engaging with the game's mechanics but it's just the greatest combat game of all time. we can't accept every argument because they're an opinion. some opinions are wrong.
@@travisbickle3835 again, proving my point. Imagine getting offended by a youtuber's opinion of a game or the addressing the toxic part of the fanbase. If you're not one of them, then why comment or become offended? Form glazers needs to stop seeing every single criticism as a "bad opinion" (and sidepoint, any time you spend money on *anything* you are entitled to an opinion) even if you don't agree with it. Just click off the video and move on. I cannot understand people who actively watch and engage with things they disagree with and then write up nasty comments or get into it with other comments. I didn't like the DLC, but I'm not going to every video that made a good review of it telling them they're wrong and writing novels as to why. I just don't watch them. People need to calm down 99% of the time and stop taking themselves so seriously.
Abyssal Woods and Cerulean Coast being the most memorably barren to me. Abyssal Woods was great the first time around because of the uncertainty you felt sneaking around it, but in replays, it’s just annoyingly large.
@@BaldOmniManonce you get past the ubtouchables it's a pretty straight run to Midra's manse to be fair. Otherwise the southern part of the map wasn't that barren. There was bits of action and relaxation as you moved through the area
The emptiness isn't great, I agree. But what irks me the most is that these empty areas are also the ones where the generic repeat enemies stand out the most. I would've preferred pure emptiness over this endless repetition, which feels so incredibly cheap. I especially hate the 1 hp shadow people clogging the whole map and these reskin dragons. The dragons are so overdone I just hate them, and even though their new lich design is cool in and of itself, this isn't enough to make this feel new and refreshing. Nothing would've been better than this. Or maybe put a small lore inscription on a stone or something for variety but not this garbage.
"The only difference between most attacks are damage, posture damage, how long it takes to come out and range" So like... everything? That's a lot of difference already and theres more you didn't even say (Recovery time, status buildup, number of hits, damage type, how wide the attack is). Genuinely how much more difference could there be before you saw it as meaningful? This just makes no sense.
To be fair the highest ATR weapons are in the DLC and a DLC weapon became the new meta. I don’t know how to quantify these things for comparison but saying that the DLC weapons are underwhelming seems like a complaint people had the day after it came out and then once people played around more and found more that went away. In my experience anyway.
They are. The best weapon from the dlc is the bloodfeins blood arm very fun and good weapon but you don’t even get it from a boss lol why couldn’t the bloodfein chief drop it?
I find the section on justifying not mentioning st trina questline incredibly questionable. You could've just said "only a cookbook and a lousy questline" with no pacing issues or requirement to explain the entire thing. Leaving it out when you're making a point and even using the term "only" is willful neglect, regardless of whether or not it reinforces your own opinion. Sure you may consider the questline a waste of time, but others may not. You have a responsibility to report accurately on objective matters, lest you misinform others.
I tend to not bring up opinions unless I spend time providing evidence to support the opinion, and I was hoping people would think through why I didn't mention Trina without me explaining it. I also didn't consider Trina to be a reward so the thought didn't cross my mind that I needed to bring her up. That may have been a blindspot on my end.
@@feebleking21 how about the remembrance weapon of Putrescent Knight? that sure could have fit your build very well. dont know how to feel about you glossing over remembrance weapons too
@@horrorpsycho0508 I said that I don't care about weapon variety in reaction focused Fromsoft games where said weapon variety can easily break the action combat element. I care about weapon variety in many other RPGs and action games.
They didn't want to tie the scadutree fragments to bosses because they wanted you to be able to experience bosses at your desired level of difficulty. They said that in an interview before the expansion came out.
@@morgoth9590 Smithing stones as a progression system did it better. There's more than you need and you can afford to miss a dungeon or two. Fragments made exploration feel artificial and like a chore. Also I think in the end the opposite ended up happening. Lots of people -including myself- did the first few bosses probably under the ideal blessing level and then got to the 2nd half where they dump a bunch of them on you all at once and then I accidentally over-leved and absolutely bodied later bosses like Midra and Romina. I think the base game did it better as well where it kinda sets you up for an ideal level and you're vaguely aware of where you should be because the smithing stones are tiered -but if you're struggling with Margit lets say- you CAAAAN go to Caelid or Liurnia and get even stronger. And I think it boils down to how they built the map. Each biome acts as a segment that has its own tier of smithing stones (vaguely). And skipping biomes is a very deliberate choice. I think this is one instance where clarity was needed more than nebulous freedom. Also it makes it annoying trying to perfectly tune my own difficulty setting especially a boss I've never fought before in my life. Idk what I should expect for damage output and damage received. I'd rather have a boss that may be slightly more difficult than is ideal for me and git gud. Better than playing a guessing game. The systems intent for tuning my own difficulty isn't clear either unless you watched this interview
That's a good point. I have to say that I think the disadvantage of not having good rewards for all builds for completing content heavily outweighs the advantage of letting players experience bosses at their desired difficulty, especially since players can just choose not to level up or increase attack power after beating bosses like in Dark Souls or Sekiro to accomplish the same thing.
@@elitereptilian200 yeah man, only played it 5 times. Clearly I don’t know that scadutree fragments, runes, and smithing stones are useful for all builds. Scadutree fragments multiply both your attack and damage so they are more useful but you get millions of runes from the DLC. My first playthrough starting from level 130 I ended up level 170 and doing exponentially more damage because of levels alone. But sure, they don’t help if it fits the narrative that the game has no good rewards.
Feeble, you're poisoning the well when you marginalize an entire fanbase with no receipts, addressing specific remarks, effectively accusing the observer of a crime they typically will commit through reactance. i realize this argumentation is popular with millennials but it's called "priming". You're probably doing it reflexively but it doesn't do anything but put people's backs up. It's effective but sleazy as an escalation tactic; like telling someone to calm down when they're being perfectly calm. On the internet it's often mischaracterized as intellection; used by bad actors to put their opponent on their back foot. Can i offer some healthy advice on how to be more sociable and grown up? If that annoyed you, good. Then at least you have a gauge for what is and isn't blunt; we can start there. When discussing something constructively it's less contentious to phrase one's arguments with affirmative "I" statements rather than accusatory "you!" statements. Ex. I think your review of the game is spot on, but, you're being a self-satisfied jackass to a fanbase for protecting a hobby that Sony, and the game journo industry, are explicitly villifying. You're making enemies bc cheap catharsis in a video matters more than sincere communication with people with whom you share a common interest. I'm a Fromsoft fan, i have 300+ hrs in ER, not including dozens of hours speculating on the periphery lore via environmental storytelling, but im not attacking you personally. Just your shitty put-upon attitude, and it is shitty. We both want Fromsoft to get out of its way and stop recycling past glories, to embrace new mechanics, but your approach is so self-serving and bitter. You frankly need to git gud at observing and metabolizing valid criticism; that's part of growing up.
>sick & tired of roll/r1 routine, complains about the player's toolkit being unchanged since DS3 >refuses to use anything but a straight sword and a dream, like he's still playing DS3 >baffled that the rewards in ER are primarily for increasing build variety; wishes he only found damage and defense buffs Hmmm. Hrmm.
Weapon attacks really aren't all that different mechanically bro All it boils down to is losing some openings and gaining more damage per hit to make up for it. And since all weapons are meant to be viable, even that difference doesn't matter really as it's gonna average out to take the same amount of time anyway, unless that specific weapon is OP. It's just about do you like big meaty hits or weaker but more consistent hits. And ash of wars are way too long to use in a lot of cases so you can't count those either
But the combat DOES consist mostly out of rolls and the attacks you do differ only in damage outpout and posture break potential. The tools you are given have the only effect to have you interact less with the boss (by doing more damage and thus killing the boss quicker or by posture breaking him more often, so that he can land less attacks), not to interact in a better way.
@@petersvane-christiansen6587 What is the mechanical difference between square off and impaling thrust? The only slightly interesting ones are the dodge into attack ones like blind spot or blinkbolt. I know some are usable but they are just another version of attacking or buffing usually. Longer ones are just unusable and mobile ones require tons of trial and error to find opportunities to use for dodges.
@@lexiferenczy9695 you don't even need to roll half the stuff enemies do to you in this game... fromsoft combat has always been more about positioning. I find myself rolling LESS the more I understand a boss. Except for the final boss, that guys just kinda disappointing. edit: Also you say that weapons have no differences, but the minor differences in animation (beast claws crouching when chraged, wing stance having a jump in the r2, etc) lead to more opportunities to punish. Rellanna's twin moons have SO many bosses where an opening seems specifically made for it. Of course, there are a lot of "float and explode" type spells, but the fact that faith, int and arcane all have options for this type of spell is NOT a bad thing either. Having options just for flavor, or maybe even just damage type differences is perfectly fine. If you take power stance movesets and weapon arts into account, the options are both limitless, but also pointless, at least from an objective standpoint. Ultimately, as has always been the case, fromsoft games are about finding the fun as you play. Feeble seems to just want a "boss rush" game ds3 style, but elden ring actively goes out of it's way to avoid being like ds3.
This can definitely be the case. I think I really like ER and very rarely feel burnt out by it, and never when learning bosses, because I'm relatively new to the souls games (started with sekiro a few months prior to ER's release), while I'm assuming souls vets like feeble have 5,000 hours in all the souls games combined or something, which yeah, at that point, I'm sure learning new bosses that fit into the similar soulslike formula probably doesn't scratch the itch the way it used to.
He literally says that it plays a part in the video 😂. But beside that ER absolutely can be more tedious to learn than DS3. DS3 you kinda just go in and fling yourself at the boss until it works. ER asks a lot more of the player; positioning, delayed attacks, positional attacks, jumpable attacks, branching combos, input reading, heal windows, etc. Is it so unbelievable that it crossed people's thresholds between fun and frustration/boredom.
I found it a bit annoying that he simplifies the bosses to "hit and dodge", like yeah you're kinda right? But Consort Radahn and Metyr are hit and dodge bosses and I hate them, they're just boring as shit. But I love Messmer, who is also a "hit and dodge" I enjoyed learning him more than most bosses in the other souls games, and Rellana is great too. And none of those gimmick bosses in Dark Souls were ever fun to me, I would like to see them keep trying with interesting boss ideas but they usually just fall flat for me.
@@austin0_bandit05 thats exactly what I adore about ER. Finding attack windows when the boss does delayed attacks, or jump over an attack to do my own feels great. I get how for some people it's not preferable to the old games. It's just the way many of these videos present it as bad game design instead of just saying it's not the kind of gameplay they enjoy.
I think you just barely miss the mark with the critique of Joseph Anderson. The point about needing speed runner strats and having to exploit a boss's moveset. He's objectively wrong but his "experience" was sort of right. Let me explain. Elden Ring has a visual language problem. It often fails to communicate with the player. When a boss raises its sword its communicating to the player that an attack is about to happen. When Malenia rises into the air and descends in a flurry what is being communicated to me as the player? And this is why people would bash their heads against her for so long. Look at people's gameplay. Some people beat Malenia never having learned how to properly dodge it. There is an imbalance between the amount of information communicated and how much the player needs to intuit. And there's a lot of attacks like this. It wouldn't be such a problem but some of these principles or strategies the player needs to learn are often used once and then never again. Hell most ER bosses are just DS3 bosses. So its very easy for the player to learn nothing. Its pretty telling how many people hate ER on first playthrough and then learn to love it their second run. Key word there LEARN. Even Loopine who debunked Joseph Anderson admitted this was his experience. And look how the community's opinion as a whole shifted over time. There were a lot more haters early after its release but over time people came around I think a great example is Rykard's earthquake attack. You cant jump it, you cant dodge it, the correct strategy is to run to the side and jump at the last moment. And the game expects the player to figure that out? Another is the relationship between healing and input (animation) reading. This is communicated soooo poorly some people still dont understand it and just heal through hits. And worse still a lot of bosses are not designed around this. The idea is that you are supposed to heal when they're mid combo or heal when you're behind them because they're effectively blind. But I only know that because of a Zullie the witch video. And as I mentioned earlier most bosses play like DS3 bosses. Its hard to learn something that isnt being taught. It also leaves you somewhat at the whim of the boss and when they decide to do an attack that is ideal for healing. Which does create an interesting dynamic but I often found tedious trying to parse out which attacks and when to heal. Then you have Rellana who throws this all out the window for some reason and has combo branches that she can change mid combo and do here blue sword slice. Then there's jumping. Myself and a lot of people did a whole playthrough not jumping attacks because visually they dont seem jumpable... so why would I try? 😂 Again Zullie for the win. Her video is the only reason I knew the jump had s in the first place. And this was so consistent on release among players I think it almost warranted a pop-up explaining it in the tutorial. Poor communication often comes in the form of positional attacks. Some are done well but others like Rellana's uppercut not so much. It is very difficult to differentiate this attack from any other attack from neutral. I beat her my first playthrough never learning this. There are good positional attacks like gap closers and tail swipes from behind. But fhen there's something like Godskin Nobles belly attack. Its nigh unreactable and it seems like the intended strategy is to just never stand in front of him and strafe constantly? Similarly with the Death Bird's shriek. What is the lesson there? More than being an interesting way to play it is annoying and people consistently seem to not learn a proper response. Again they're not being given enough information. Actually its the same think Joe Anderson complained about Pontiff Sulyvhan and his blue sword poke.
>Even Loopine who debunked Joseph Anderson admitted this was his experience. No, he never said that. That was Feeble King's incorrect interpretation of what he said: That he at first didn't know how to beat the bosses. Not that he wasn't having fun, because he was. I'm the same, I've always had fun with the game but ER became so much easier when I learned to be aggressive.
@@JohnDoe-sq5nv I didnt even know Feeble made a video on Loopine 😂. So no I didnt get it from him. Maybe if I say it more gently. He said something to the effect of he learned to appreciate it more on his 2nd playthrough
It's the problem of "difficulty"; have become known for it, they have to keep pushing it, making enemies less intuitive, give fewer tells, have more moves, give you more ways to avoid damage but make few of them work at any given time, etc. That core audience that just obsesses over being good at FromSoft games keeps demanding more and shouting down anyone who says they'd prefer something else. Or even just more of the same; keep the great variety of enemies and moves, just don't work so hard to make them annoying to fight just to please the tryhards. People still like Demon Souls and Dark Souls 1, so they don't have to keep cranking it up (if they want to do that, add a higher difficulty option for those people). It's sort of amazing how some really good players actually had an easier time not even really paying that much attention to the enemies and instead just being aggressive and trying to get a feel for the "rhythm" of the fight instead, because the visual clutter and tricky tells are so hard to deal with.
I beat elden ring and the dlc this year. My character ended on ng+6. After learning how to poise break margitt (30hrs in or do, I beat a lot of caelid b4 coming back somehow) I didn't hit anymore roadblocks except the gargoyle fights. I think this game is pretty easy to learn, it's simply just the timing. I kno most of you don't use mimic or summons... But I always used them and my 1st 200hrs of elden ring was pure euphoria or buildcrafting and overcoming bosses. I think a lot of ppl had to learn to love ER because they'd played it with souls standards. If ppl would've used summons and more varied builds, then maybe Joe wouldn't have given loopine they alley oop of the century for a critic.
That was the difficulty in other souls games as well, I remember playing ds3 and I passed half of the game with fat rolling and I didn't upgrade my weapon up until the abyss watchers(I was saving titinite shards because I was afraid that I will want to switch to another weapon), after watching some guides the game became easier That's why I agree with feeble's point about those games aren't actually being hard, they just have a lot of unique mechanics and the games don't really communicate anything to the player, so it's frustrating at first but once you learn it becomes much easier and fun
I can see were you are coming from with the shadow tree fragments, but my motivation to do dungeons was because they were fun. If I felt like I had to go to every dungeon bc they all had rewards I need then it would get tidios. I do agree that some of the bosses lack depth in positioning.
one thing i will say is you make a good point about bosses not having a posture bar. considering that one of the most optimal/efficient methods of fighting bosses in this game is simply shutting their movespam down with stance breaks, there should be more visual indicators for it. like if they are close to getting stance broken a big anime sweat drop appears on their head and increases in size until they are ready for the riposte
@@anonymousperson8903 Because they are _aware_ it sucks, that's why they kinda fixed it in Sekiro, by zooming out in large bosses for example. Watch the Monster Hunter previews for another: they outline your character when your camera is behind an enemy. Fromsoft is too proud, so they sacrifice fairness in favor of difficulty. They *refuse* to change. But i want to fight the boss, not the camera.
@@fernandofaria2872 I think it's more they want you to experience the spectacle of the fight, that's why they don't zoom the camera out. And frankly, the camera isn't even an issue if you don't lock on in most cases...and they expect you to be able to do this at this point. I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they would make something like the camera bad to add difficulty. That is simply not their design philosophy.
@@anonymousperson8903 It's the other way around: they don't actively make the camera bad, they simply don't invest time in programming a better one because they believe it's a non issue. You are correct about the spectacle: they do it this way to make the boss more intimidating, but that comes with downsides that they refuse to fix. Actually, you know what? They *DID* fix something camera related on the last boss: they improved the visibility of the light effects on the latest patch. I guess it's a start, and proves my point: not being able to see should not be a part of the challenge. You are also correct to say that the camera is not exactly gettin in the way of your victory, the same way a mosquito is simply an annoyance, instead of an actual threat. And thats *precisely* what infuriates me. Mosquitoes are not fun to fight 😒
@@anonymousperson8903bruh you can’t zoom out when not locked on either so now you’re just turning your camera around to focus on an enemy that jumps around that btw is still attacking while your fiddling with the equipment. Seriously just zoom the camera out and let us take in the spectacle of how big the boss and the arena are. I don’t understand if it’s a technical limitation or something cause I just don’t see the downside. It’s either zoom the camera out or slow down combat so we got time to adjust the camera a needed. I love the game though but the camera is an issue that Sekiro fixed so I don’t know why it’s a problem here
I can understand your critque about the base game but the dlc is an extension of the base game so expecting gameplay mechanics that you didn't like to change is pretty optimistic
Just to help balance out the comments section, I'll add that I pretty much agree. I don't need to write a paragraph explaining why, but the fact is I enjoyed SoTE significantly less than the main game and nobody's comments or reasoning is going to change that.
It's really sad, i think you may have fromsoft fatigue, i really enjoyed the bosses, the map was way too big and started to feel empty and meaningless halfway trough, i accepted that is an intrinsic flaw of open worlds
For me the reward is fighting the boss, i dont need a skibidi fragment or a rare weapon, i enjoy the boss fight itself and the challenge that comes with it
I feel like these games have such a passionate fanbase because they felt the magic you did in DS1 but in Elden Ring. I felt the same euphoric feeling playing the DLC as the base game. Sorry if some of my comments were so aggressive. I do think this DLC could’ve been a game where From fleshed out and added some areas
Maybe some people like the older players just have their own taste, I only started these games with the Demons Souls remake and then played all of them. My first playthrough of Elden Ring was the most magical I felt out of them all
@@-jobrocodwawz-6226I started with DS3 and DS1 was my favourite game in the entire series. I refused to play ER for a year or two since I preferred the old games at first, but since I’ve given it a real chance and played through the game pre-DLC I have to say Elden Ring is far and beyond better than Dark Souls. There are things that I can say I like about DS1, but no other game they’ve created come close to the exploration, combat depth, enemy variety, weapon variety, and extrinsic rewards. There are bits and pieces you could argue are better in Dark Souls sure, but the only reason I can see people liking it more for is the nostalgia.
you only feel that way because you experienced a fractured version of that magic. If you played DS1 or DeS and were being objective and considering context you would understand why it's a far more impressive achievement than ER
A major problem i've had with the souls community is their unwillingness to criticize their own games Yes I've played every souls game fromsoft has released but we seriouslly gotta stop treating Miyazaki like' he's god and whatever he does is objectively the best thing out there with 0 flaws.
I think its just the case of the game being generally good, like these days sadly triple a games kinda suck, most long time studios release dogshit, so getting a good game from a long time studio makes me, personally, not wanna criticize fromsoft and hype them up more, but i do agree like all games all souls games have problems
I think there's something no one has ever touched on and that is the open world factor. I just don't think it works long-term with Souls games. Souls games work best as intentionally crafted mazes of levels weaved together with the only respite being the hub world and the bonfires you find. I feel like the open world gets rid of the fear factor of heading into a dungeon, it makes crafting a build and maxing out a new character a nightmare which kills replayability and by extension multiplayer, results in less core, crafted content because more is spent on the open world and results in a less condensed experience than a normal Souls game.
it was really cool discovering it for the first time though, i was fooling around with my friends then i thought about telling thiollier of st trina cause hes obsessed with her or whatever
It makes perfect sense. You learn that you need a _lot_ of nectar to hear St. Trina, but you also learn that you will never wake up again if you drink it even once. So, realizing that you can come back to life when you die, you figure out that you can overcome this contradiction by dying to it multiple times.
the depth that people talking about with these games comes in the form of jumping and ashes of war that you can dodge attacks with, there is so much more variety in how you fight bosses because of that, aside from radahn who is just dodge left simulator. the problem is that you guys just dont like roll dodge bosses anymore thats it, Elden ring has the mechanics that allow for new ways to dodge attacks. if you dont like it that sucks i guess
This. They want a simpler game like Dark Souls, but they don't wanna admit it. I love the challenge of ER bosses because once you figure them out its super fun. I didnt have a lot of fun with Dark Soul 3 when i first played it until i figured out dodge rolling.
@@NewSorpigal1 because it isn't dark souls anymore. And they are totally fair. You can dodge/block/counter every attack in numerous ways. I'm not a masochist either. The game isn't that hard to figure out. Some bosses frustrate me but just like dark souls it's my fault every time. Well, except for when my controller decides to not register a button press. That is annoying and can piss me off. I just think it's funny that you and people like you act like dark souls wasn't a struggle back in the day when people weren't use to that type of gameplay. Now that it's evolved, people who were use to dark souls can't seem to grasp the concept of jumping over horizontal swipes and position based attacks.
@@NewSorpigal1 bosses never had stamina to begin with. They were just slower. Manus is more bullshit than any boss from Elden Ring. If anyone is breaking the rules of the game it's that dude. You're playing Elden Ring with a Dark Souls mindset. Not every attack combo ends with a big opening to punish. Instead there are combos with openings in the middle of them where you can crouch poke or maybe even jump attack. Use a certain ash of war even. Lions claw is great for punishing horizontal attacks. It's a much more active and aggressive game. If you're playing passively like it's Dark Souls then ya, you're probably gonna struggle because you're too scared of the boss to get in there and counter their moves with your own moves. We really need more videos going in depth on the many combat options Elden Ring provides because it seems like most of the haters just don't get the game. They're hung up on the past even though they don't wanna admit it. You don't gotta like the game. I just think it's dumb that we can't even enjoy it without people calling it "bad design". Bad for you maybe, but it's such a subjective statement. Like Sekiro is "bad" if all I ever do is try to dodge attacks and never Parry or use prosthetics. Any game is bad if I don't actually engage with the mechanics.
@@NewSorpigal1 I couldn't care less about what feeble king thinks of me. I can counter every point he makes and he would still be unhappy with the gameplay. Like just don't play Elden ring. He already didn't like the base game. Idk why he thought the dlc would change the rules of the game. I'm gonna keep clowning on people who say it's unfair. My recent playthrough has opened my eyes to even more flaws in feeble king's critiques. If anyone is being disingenuous, like you suggested I was, it's him. My favorite critique is "not every reward from a boss is usable with every build therefore they're bad rewards" 😂 like bro it's an RPG. Of course you can't use EVERYTHING. Don't give up hope though. Fromsoft will probably make another linear metroidvania dungeon crawler like dark souls again.
@@NewSorpigal1I would argue it’s you guys that can’t see the forest for but trees. You think every game has to resemble Dark Souls 1 in every way to be good. You’re blinded by romanticism of the past. Dark Souls 1 is the same game where you could be cursed while fighting Seath and then have to go through the Duke’s Archives with half of your health. It’s the same game that contains an unfinished location with arguably the single worst boss From has ever created, and also littered with reskinned enemies. The game had its flaws and occasional moments that were arguably unfairer than anything in Elden Ring. It’s just that people romanticize the past and don’t like change. 5 years from now, people will likely be saying the same thing about whatever new game FS is developing. And I say this all as someone who absolutely adores DS1 as it was my very first Souls game.
I feel like you shouldn’t really be exploring PURELY to improve your build and get stronger. That is a positive side effect of exploring not the main motive. Exploring in this game makes a lot more sense if you are doing it with the mindset of “completing” the game which is what people should do anyways. ALSO your approach to bosses is just not very optimal for souls bosses. You aren’t and shouldn’t go into the boss with “oh yeah I’m gonna beat him in like 2 attempts” you have to learn attack patterns just like in Sekiro. If you went into Sekiro trying to beat bosses first try then you will fail. If you did have that mindset it means that it just luckily worked out for you and Elden ring is way more punishing with mistakes than Sekiro. With that all being said I think a lot of your critiques are very valid. You don’t have to enjoy the game but I was a little confused when you criticized Elden ring for some things but not remaining consistent with the other titles you criticized. I would like to hear your thoughts regarding this matter and if I got your arguments wrong and that there’s more depth into why.
Completely agree with you. Most people don’t explore or fight bosses because they expect a reward at the end of it. They just want to fight a giant dragon or a half- centipede half-scorpion lady. The bosses themselves ARE the reward for exploring. That is why I play these games, to fight cool creatures and learn their movesets to perfection. The remembrance they drop is just a cherry on top for me.
@@ennayanne yeah it’s not the aggression, i just watch his videos bc i like intentional game design, and hate the trend of modern empty open world games that waste ur time, so i feel less crazy watching his videos lol
@@Avalan666 The thing about furnace golems is they take forever to kill while being mechanically simple. I wish you only had to knock them over once instead of twice.
@@BrovarSpirytusno other dlc will ever provide this much content. One of the greatest DLCs ever. Messmer Midra Renalla and even Radahn post nerf all all arguably top 10 bosses in the game. So many new weapons spells and ashes of war. New elements and styles of play. And the greatest Dragon boss in any souls game with Bayle the Dread. Messmer’s story and Miquella’s story have amazing story telling. And the npc questline was sad defeating all the knights. Catacombs have been more interesting than ever. The lack of reward variety can be justified with Covid interruption and by the fact that characters can be so OP with dlc rewards.
It's never your fault is it? It's always the community being toxic and misunderstanding your perfectly delivered thoughts (lol), or it's the game 'not teaching you well enough.' Take some responsibility.
Yeah, as a guy who played most of the game once and didn't even finish it before the DLC because I didn't like the main game that much, I don't understand how people hate the dlc so much. It's not overly difficult, the rewards aren't that horrible etc. It took me like 10-20 attempts against most remembrances with a +10/+25 weapon with whatever I was using at that point starting the dlc at lvl 139 and basically all of them were fun. No buffs or no summons were needed either.
Move on? It's a Fromsoftware game, people are paying for a specific experience. And if the next game from that studio isn't the experience people wanted, then it's like a betrayal of consumer trust. They lose brand loyalty that way.
@alifpatria2135 It hasn't evolved. There was more variety of encounter design originally. Mechanically, the fights are very simple in SOTE, the difficulty comes from the hidden meta difficulty, because it's easier to hide the challenge from the player, than just be honest about the telegraphs, tracking, spacing and dodge windows, while creating a variety of fresher mechanics, and providing the player with evolved evasive moves to compensate...instead of leaning on the easy to program, childish adhd philosophy of practice dodging or cheese builds. You don't grasp that the game has become more flashy, yet also more stupid and lazy. Fromsoft just appealled heavily to the loud minority of adhd hyper aggressive sociopaths who pad out the fan base and gaslight all criticism..., with cheap mechanics, as opposed to creating an intelligent and varied challenge with actual evolutions in gameplay depth.
@@MarkerMurker i get it but i heard lots of complaints saying ppl cant just big bonk their way through every single boss fight, since lots of them are more aggressive etc and they feel the need to change build just cuz their playstyle that they genuinely enjoy is not "viable". And the experience is being able to pull through, to finally overcome hardship and all that good stuff aint it? I just feel like a lot of the criticisms levelled against the game arent objective flaws of the game, but just people cant stand their ego getting bumped.
@@MarkerMurker? So how do they get away with creating popular games sekiro, armored core and bloodborne if people just want souls 1? The point is that many fans wish that ds1 had been evolved further in depth, when instead the souls games (specifically) just became more obtuse, and shallower. Elden ring is the culmination of fromsofts lazy design crutches, only spread out like a bland buffet....if i go from one end of the map to the other and find the same enemies, rewards and therefore false depth, it's the failure of a dev in everyone's eyes who have common sense. Unfortunately, many don't have common sense, just rose tinted spectacles and a great capacity for self delusion. "Oh somehow my fun is wrong" is the usual petulant response...well, they would be having many times more fun if they stopped actively holding the games evolution back by encouraging fromsoft to get away with their cheap tricks.
I think it is. Literally just run away from her and dodge/jump when she hits the ground, you'll at max only take a little chip if you don't time it or the rest of the attack perfectly. All of her other attacks are easily dodgable
"every time you hit her" my guy you do know that the Waterfowl is a triggered event after a certain amount of health right? From what you are saying I assume you struggled with her (as we all did) and yet you didn't catch onto the fact that the chances of her doing waterfowl back to back are extremely low unless you are doing a DISGUSTING amount of damage to her to trigger back to back waterfowl.. For most of us we fight her normal and pay attention to her health, when she gets below a certain amount is when we get careful and then after she does it and you managed to dodge it you go back to the back and forth dance, rinse and repeat until dead. The Waterfowl is a move designed to keep you on your toes at specific moments in the fight. All of this to say... Yes... Yes it is the defense we KNOW it is, and if that isn't enough for you then let go of your pride and just use Frost Pots if you think the move is SO unfair, just remove the move entirely from the game, the option IS there, no one is forcing you to learn tk dodge it if you don't think it's fair. Just don't tell others that we don't know what we talking about just because we either learned how to dodge it by overcoming the odds or learned to use the games mechanics to bring the fight down to our level but you refused to do either whether due to stubbornness, pride or simply bitterness.
Sorry you've had that experience with the community bud. I love your channel even tho I am a certified FS Glaser; I think your opinions are always very well articulated and enjoyable to listen to
I'm fine with the disagreement. What I dislike are the strawman arguments and attempts to 'tear down' my opinion as bad faith or inherently wrong. This is somewhat my fault for not holding back how upset I was in my original critique, but it's also just how the community is. They feel the need to constantly nitpick people who disagree so that they can defend the game they love. As long as the negative comments don't bait me into fighting every boss with 3 or 4 different builds to explain in more depth my issues with the build variety, I think I'm going to just try to move away from Fromsoft criticism. I've basically said everything I feel like I need to say, and I don't enjoy making videos where I have to predict a thousand counter arguments and strawman arguments in the comment section.
@@feebleking21 Agree mate - as you say people can just disagree and move on. We all want different things, we all experience it in different ways. No game should be immune from feedback, and you shouldnt be attacked for offering up constructive criticism. Which is more or less the point Joe ended his video on as well, people acting like criticism is a personal attack rather than a part of a healthy environment.
@GredGlinstone They weren't implying that anyone is immune to criticism. All they're suggesting is to criticize the creator without nitpicking or blowing their opinions out of proportion.
We need to look at the positive side. Miyazaki himself said he didn't get the perfect RPG with Elden Ring. So let's just be excited about what will come in the future👀
Because the player expression is too simple because it uses ds3's combat engine. If they went back to slower and more decisive actions like in ds2, but kept enemy variety of Elden Ring (maybe make their moves slower though) they'd have the best rpg. Also maybe some Dragons Dogma 2 style traveling tedium to make journeying more engaging.
I much preferred the base game, especially the art direction. One thing the DLC does well is the terrain, it looks much more believable and realistic than in the base game. Better looking rocks, erosions, roads, it makes a big difference. I wish Fromsoftware would update the base game's terrain in a similar way but that's wishful thinking. Otherwise, the DLC is really just artificial difficulty for the sake of it, and whole pointless and empty regions that defeat the purpose of exploring. It's also insanely unrewarding. I hope you all like cookbooks.
1:43 I heavily disagree for one reason: Mandatory exploration. Instead of going to dungeons because you like the encounters or want to naturally explore the world, you're forced to go to every dungeon to stand a chance against bosses. It's the same problem I had with Sekiro's health system, but it would be far worse in this case because it's whole dungeons instead of minibosses.
That's a lie. I explore maybe 2 or 3 dungeons in SOTE, one just so i can get to Midra. Otherwise you don't need to explore the dungeons to be powerful enough to fight the bosses.
@@valkeitos That's exactly the point. When I was talking about being forced about going to every dungeon, I meant in a hypothetical scenario where there was a scadutree fragment behind almost every dungeon, resulting in the game being scaled around this.
This was 100% the case with the base game, mountaintops was such an increase in difficulty compared to Leyndell you HAD to go and explore the rest of the game to level up. I like it with SOTE though because I appreciate not having to fight a single boss at all until I want to (ie once I've explored the world). Your progress is never capped (except for Enir Elim but that dungeon is the worst in the game anyway, and quite short, so nothing is missed)
Dang you used the example of the spirit orbs (Heart pieces) Being put around the open world as a bad idea in botw when that is exactly what most people are asking nintendo to do by making it like the older zeldas.
Meh. I liked this DLC, as with the base game. But I think it's more that a lot of people hold these games up as the best games ever made, and like... They're not, they never have been. Dark Souls had plenty of flaws and a lot of them have carried over throughout the entire series, all the way into Elden Ring. Personally Elden Ring was the first time I really loved one of these games, because it had much more to offer than the others. No game is perfect, it's just a question of whether the parts you enjoy outweigh the flaws.
@@zaynthemane the way you’re misreading their comment implies that these games should be considered the best of all time. No game is flawless, AND, unrelated, none of the souls games should be considered any of the best games of all time (Sekiro should imo)
@@isaiahwebb3743 I’m just saying I disagree with the logic that a game having flaws makes them exempt from being considered one of the best games of all time. I don’t believe any game I’ve played in my life is flawless.
As someone who is NOT a massive FromSoft fan, but who has watched the fanbase develop since Dark Souls, I do find it interesting how they have changed. Yes, Git Gud has been a meme answer since then, but there was also a backlash from the fans AGAINST the idea that difficulty was the overriding motive. They would get mad about that accusation, they'd say "Hey, this game has some great lore, level design, enemy design, build variety, atmosphere, and so on! Stop acting like it's Super Meat Boy or something where punishing difficulty is the only draw! More games should learn from this!" But overtime, probably as an unintentional result of the RUclips/streaming community showing their challenge runs and learning how to beat every boss with turkey slaps, the fanbase has largely been subsumed by exactly those people. It's all about the meta, the builds, the challenges, the desire to push the difficulty to the limit, all with bombastic action setpieces. They actively mock the obscure lore and have little appreciation for any other details of the design. And of course, yes, every complaint, no matter what it's about, will be met with "You only say that because you're bad at it," even to streamers who have shown proof of them owning Radahn without any cheese, as if it is physically impossible to overcome a challenge and still not like some aspects of it, or to appreciate any other dimension of Soulsborne titles. I personally laugh at certain elements that FromSoft has always used, like rolling through solid matter being the main battle strategy, instead of actually AVOIDING attacks or blocking them, which are, in many cases, viewed as noob traps--look at the idiot making intuitive choices instead of ramming his face into the attack! I wish FromSoft had made their games more intuitive and fun, instead of more obscure and punishing. We'll see if the reception to this DLC, which was far less glowing than the base game, makes FromSoft consider whether they have pushed that particular element to it's limit, and either innovate or just focus more on the other elements like dungeon design and such again.
I felt like this too , lmao, and still think it looks absolutely silly when I see someone stay in THAT ONE SPOT where Bayle's breath misses 'em as it forks out, even tho' it looks like it hit them. Like... why would ANYONE intuitively do that? And the answer is, they wouldn't - it's just that through enough trial & error, you'll eventually figure out where's safe to stay & where not , even in the wildest, dumbest, most non-sensical places. At some point it becomes a comedic to me, lol.
Git Gud originally was a term of encouragement but over time it's metastasised into outright derision as From's games became increasingly popular unfortunately.
@@animeguitarguy I don't think From has forgotten, just some of the fanbase. Elden ring still has a lot of good interesting lore, environmental storytelling, level design, good music, storytelling in that music (Did you know Midra's theme has a motif of the song the frenzied merchants play?) Etc. From still has more intricacy in the design than purely boss fights, it's just a lot of the community who ignore that.
I like to view fragments, not like the main reward for exploration. More like motivation to search for ruins and camps. And when you explore them you will find talismans, weapons and armor to improve your build/ create new one.
Responding to 6:11 "I am not saying Fromsoft games should have Devil May Cry combo lists. These are different types of games with different goals." Now, for every game *but* Elden Ring and maybe Sekiro, I will agree wholeheartedly. But, as you say at the end, we've gone full theme-park. The bosses and many basic enemies are more action-packed than ever before, and the player is given a plethora of spectacular moves which are sadly mostly useless against anything they cannot poise-break. While I would agree that going DMC would be losing the last of the heart of the Souls series, at this point how much remains to be lost by the change? Having the movesets and gameplay to match the enemies could compliment their ridiculous combos by allowing the player to more frequently perform their own.
I've thought while playing DMC 5 that I might enjoy Elden Ring bosses a lot more if I had Dante's anime-like abilities. Souls games have gone so far in the direction of action combat that it's not like they'd be losing much if they went all out.
@@travisbickle3835 You have some DMC ability, but none of the convenience. Just try using Messmer's Spear's Ash of War against Messmer and see how many situations it *doesn't* work.
Elden Ring end game and DLC make me sad because its clear that Fromsoft games are no longer made for people like me, I dont enjoy bashing my head against a boss until i learn all the delayed unnaturally timed attacks, I dont enjoy bizarre boss mechanic gimmicks (special mention to Malenia hyper armor, just frustrating and could have been done better), I also dont enjoy the game expecting me to either use a bunch of OP stuff to overcome a boss or use exploits to "counter" special moves (again, Malenia xd) I prefer just 'legacy dungeons' being strung together, the open world in base Elden Ring was fun before the capital on the first playthrough, after the capital its ass, and subsequent playthroughs is just check list simulator which seems to be a big issue with the DLC too it sucks to feel that way but oh well, what can you do, definitely wont be blind buying their next game without looking into it and how similar it is to their current design philosophy
I agree. Bayle was my fav, but I always enjoyed more consistent fights. Dragoslayer armor, list king, twin princes, especially pontiff. ER fights rarely felt like, fights. They were just combat tests. Do you kno this? Did you remember this timing? Betcha won't jump! Everything has answers but I swear it's grimy there's no consistent indicators for attack types. I always get hit by godfrey's stomps in phase 2. Idk why hitting the ground with his are and foot are different. Or why the attack you can jump over is the one that cracks the ground instead of a low Shockwave.
The truth is that these bosses arent actually mechanicly more difficult than DS3 bosses, they just have an extra fluff of 15-30 extra deaths because they have new overly elaborate or fast attacks that you can only avoid after seeing them at least once.
@@KNGDDDE there are actually these things you can use that I found helped me a lot to read boss attacks without an indicator. I used my eyes to look at what the boss was doing and the bosses indicated what move they would do with their telegraphs. This is something that I use in every souls game, especially DS3 since the combat is similar to Elden Ring minus the advantage of being able to jump boss attacks.
@@KNGDDDE in the combat tests you can read the boss like I mentioned in order to dodge the attacks given the movement abilities granted to you. This includes rolling, back stepping, running, jumping, or running jumps. There are also ashes of war that can further improve movement abilities like bloodhound step or dash. These combat tests are not significantly different from those in DS3 other than extra movement being afforded to you and extensions to the boss. By both watching the boss and learning how to successfully dodge their attacks you can overcome the challenge presented to you by the game. You’ll find most of the time there are several ways to dodge/punish a majority of attacks as well, giving players additional combat freedom and variety with the 300+ weapons and builds to choose from. If you interact with the game like you’re playing Elden Ring and not DS3, you might find yourself getting roll-caught a lot less.
I think my biggest problem is now the game is simply too big. It feels like even if you know what you’re doing, completing a single run imo just takes too long (particularly in an all remembrances run)
I agree that it takes a decent amount of time, but I’ve gotten 3-4 DLC playthroughs done already while playing other competitive games and working full-time. That’s including the base game up to Mohg and Radahn as well. Once you know what you’re looking for on each run it becomes a pretty linear game, and that’s with me using unique builds for each playthrough.
"All I get for the kill is two remembrance weapons." I mean, yeah. What do you want Fromsoft to peel you a fuckin grape too? Like, wtf else do you want? You also get their armor!
@@echo1180 Go look for them like you did already with your golden seeds and sacred tears in the base game you lazy bum. Or go play Sekiro or Armored Core cause those games don't need Exploration.
@@mikeyswift2010 One of the big rewards in the base game for defeating remembrance bosses is a bunch of level ups. Mohg himself gives like 400,000 runes, which is quite a few level ups for players, especially considering how early you could potentially fight him, which is a good reward because it means that even if you aren't able to use the weapon or spell the boss gives you, you still get a reward in the form of leveling up a ton. The bosses in the dlc give you far less runes, and don't give shadow tree fragments, which is kind of like the dlcs own way of leveling up, meaning for a lot of builds, there isn't even a reason to fight some remembrance bosses. Rellana doesn't give you a lot of runes or any fragments, and you have the option to skip her, so if I'm not making a build that could use the weapon or spell she gives me, I have no real reason to fight her, unless I just really like the boss. I don't mind Rellana, but not everyone will like her and you get my point here
@@cjzizzari2405most of them are viable or are getting buffed. Some like rominas halberd are shit, but to say all of them are bad is just wrong. They can all be very good, you just have to build around it.
In regards to the St. Trina thing, I don’t think people were upset because the questline was some fantastic and well constructed side quest, I think it’s more that it felt disingenuous to cite that specific example as one where there was nothing to find but a cookbook. I do agree that the St Trina reveal was underwhelming, but it still is definitely additional, somewhat significant content that is a “reward” for beating putrescent knight. I still do agree that exploration had underwhelming extrinsic rewards for my build, all I really added was a new armor set and 1-2 talismans.
My bigger problem were the toxic comments and claims that I am disingenuous and misleading for leaving out evidence that supports my central argument. Maybe I should've mentioned Trina, but some comments blew this nitpick out of proportion.
That’s totally valid! I think claiming that you were deliberately being misleading is pretty goofy, especially cuz like you said, it’s not like the st Trina quest was an amazing reward either. Idk was just trying make the counter argument a bit more cohesive
The only thing I thought was disappointing was the southern part of the map (not including the abyssal woods and jagged peak), especially the finger ruins, like what was all that empty space doing there, but other than that this dlc was peak, 10/10, definitely should be a GOTY nomination
I've only played DS1 so far. Haven't played Elden Ring or its expansion. I've met your channel with the Zelda TotK critique. Despite that, I'm in awe of your channel and sincerity. I can feel your true and honest passion about what you like and I wish more reviewers were like you, just a little less repetitive but I get that this video was meant to get your point across. What you said about DS1 truly touched me, and the fatigue from the franchise trying to be more appealing to the masses is something I really connected with. Keep up the good work man, you're a legend in the making.
Comparing hack and Slash combat to souls borne combat you know that those are completely different games you could have alteast compared it to a similar combat style game instead of taking a completely different game and comparing them
Shadowtree blessings suck as a reward because it doesn’t actually affect your build. You lose it when you go to the base game, Newgame+ co-op, invasions, or Arena, so *it isn’t actually part of your build.* They don’t feel good to collect because it’s basically artificially lowering the difficulty of the DLC itself, not actually reinforcing your build. There is no pleasure in one shotting shadow villagers in grave site plain when you know full well the damage you are doing doesn’t carry over anywhere else
dude no shit it wont transfer to the base game why tf would they, also your character keeps the shadow blessing level every time u start a new game, so you just need to get the shadow blessing to lv 20 once. which you can do over multiple playthroughs if you feel like it. you can also just, not fucking get them if you hate them that badly since "they dont affect your build"
@@knivy6160 I'm pretty sure you don't, and even if you do, it wouldn't even matter when it comes to the extra NG+ cycle when it comes to beating Consort Radahn. OP is also aluding to it basically just being the memory and prayer bead system in Sekiro. very boring damage and reduction increases across the board, somehow trumps the ability to alter your playstyle? That's crazy. People who like Sekiro probably also ignored 99% of the different combat arts in that game and just got by with deflecting and Ichimonji double. This is a roll-playing game, not a watered down Ninja Gaiden.
@@Garl_Vinland you do keep it, having gone into a new cycle on a few characters after beating the dlc on them. They still matter for that last bit of the DLC. The fragment system is pretty hamfisted, though, and I felt it could have been done more thoughtfully.
I think if they’d reduced the damage/defense boost from Scadutree Blessings, kept the boost active in base game, and made you choose between damage or defense each time you use one, they would have felt much better.
I don’t believe every game should be for everyone; this DLC is my favorite content in my favorite game. And I’m struggling to put into words why my experience playing this DLC is the most enjoyable experience I’ve had playing a video game in a very long time. I would say this is without any doubt the most beautiful game I’ve ever played. The experience of playing this game was unlike any other. And I’m really sorry you couldn’t experience it the way I did. I don’t think your takes are invalid or wrong it’s just sad to see you didn’t enjoy it the way I did it. I will say however, I think you are absolutely wrong when it comes to to the bosses not being sufficiently different from previous games. I would argue that this game and its dlc were from software at its peak creativity. If it’s not your style that’s fine. I even agree with some of your points in this and the last video… but I just don’t understand how you could naturally come to the conclusion that you did, “regarding the bosses” if not promoted by the backlash of the last video.
No, just that this dlc does it poorly. Ds1 and ds2 are similar in terms of difficulty (both being slowed clunky). The difference is ur not dying to ganks 70% of the time in ds1.
@@KNGDDDE I didn't die to ganks 70% of the time. So idk who you are talking about? I enjoyed the trial and error in this more than Ds1 because it felt like I accomplished much more. Ds1 is outdated and very easy.
@tahireed the fact that you said that about a dlc that invalidates your levels is wild. Also, the point being made was how they go about the trial and error. I don't find much fun getting 2-3 shot for 20hrs. But since ur a newer player it'd make more sense you having more tolerance for it. Hence why I compared ds1 and 2
@@KNGDDDE Trial and error is about getting good, not leveling up so Idk what point you think you are making. "Getting two shot for 20 hours" I played on NG+4, never took my vigor above 50 and I was getting 2-3 shot. Unless, you were trying to make it hard for yourself like me, you shouldn't have been getting two shot. 60 vigor with 20 fragments is easy to obtain and more than enough for the Dlc. You are right in that I have a higher tolerance and that's the point I was originally making. I like the new "overtuned" bosses because they feel like more of an accomplishment to beat. I completely understand older players being put off by it, though.
@@tahireed trial and error is about trial and error. Getting good is about learning and practice. Sure thru trial and error you can dodge all of margitt. But when u get gud you incorporate jump attacks, you crush his moves using stances, you hit him with two charge attacks on his mind up for guaranteed posture break. The newer bosses don't have such skill expression, which is my issue with the dlc. When everything deals high dmg, roll catches, when fodder enemies start having positional openings... This is the part I lose patience for. The consistent, elevated demands from artificially inflated health and dmg. Also I played half thus dlc on ng and restarted with my ng+5 gal. I hit radahn with scad lvl 17. I had played +50hrs at that point. Please stop acting as if these bosses were sooo difficult. They're tough, but mainly just aggravating. Luke I said, I dont find getting 2-3 shot @ lvl 290 very fun. It was even worse on my ng gal. The enemies were too hard to drop such little runes. I could go on but I don't feel most ppls concept of difficulty get past dmg values. I'd rather the bosses have been much more interesting overall. Imagine if the snake overcame mesmer and the fight became itachi vs kabuto. That'd be way cooler than "hey bud can you dodge 20 frame attacks from across the arena? Why make things fun when they can be difficult? Ideology on display in the dlc. If we wanna talk about getting gud fr, come back after u got nioh 2 DotN unlocked. You kno Nioh is hard because it's the only soulsluke no one talks about... Probably because it's actually demanding in fair and unfair ways ways with a lot of depth and original mechanics. A lot more than dodge/block/parry. Sorry for the long post I got carried away
What are your thoughts on Shaman Village? For me that was the area that proved to me that Fromsoft still had that emotional spark akin to the moments you talked about at 1:01:16 Also I must say, my perspective is so wildly different from yours, because I am mostly interested in exploration that provides me with new weapons and spells, and I found the Scadutree Fragment system unbelievably boring. I agree it would be better if more side dungeons had them but after I got to Blessing level 12 I resolved to not even upgrade my Blessing level further, and for repeat playthroughs I don't even intend to push my Blessing level to 12, even if I get the fragments to. Stat increases are completely uninteresting to me. I enjoy when the game is so hard that I need to optimize my actual build to the greatest extend possible to beat it.
Sad news is that the director for Zelda see BotW/ToTK as objectively better than previous Zelda games and designing any game similar to those is creating a worse game
The problem isn't them being open world, it's that they are just too big. Shrinking them down 50% or so with a greater focus on unique gameplay would make all the difference.
@@Jose_Ruiz932 None of the ways TotK or BotW are better are due to the nature of the open world. Also, I don't believe they are better or at the very least I dont thinl there's a strong enough case you could make that would remove all doubt
@@samueldawkins yah fair I guess That aside I so badly wish video essayists took lessons, best practices, from critical and academic writing and were clear about this stuff. You GOTTA interrogate your own reactions to art.
I think people would chill out if he wasn’t factually wrong on multiple things and refusing to interact with half the game while complaining about its lack of content. They would also chill if he didn’t title it “worst fromsoft dlc ever made.”
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf and like, trying to straddle the line between review and analytical critique is on him because it muddles the essay. But getting pissy about it in the comments isn’t good either.
we seriouslly gotta stop treating Miyazaki like' he's god and whatever he does is objectively the best thing out there with 0 flaws. While I agree with Feeble's points as a long time souls' enjoyer Feeble and Joe seem to be more opinionated than analytical when it comes to their essays
Exploration wasnt great, but I do think Mesmer, Bayle and Rellana stand with some of fromsoft’s best bosses. Radahn was frustrating, but post nerf I was able to hitless him after a decent amount of practice and I found it very rewarding. I think catacombs and caves were more varied and interesting in DLC compared to base game, but I do think legacy dungeons were a let down, apart from shadow keep which was excellent. Midra and Romina are both pretty solid fights too! Idk $40 is a lot, I received it free from a friend so I didnt really think of the value for the price too much. Old hunters is a tighter package, but apart from that it’s probably my fav from soft DLC.
Long time fan of From Software here. I had a lot of similar criticisms of the DLC, and I appreciate you putting a voice to them. I love FromSoft and the games they produce, but I feel like this DLC is steering the company's design philosophy in a direction that I don't like, so I appreciate the criticism. I feel like Shadow of the Erdtree is worth complaining about because I know FromSoft is very talented, and I know they can make excellent games. They are a company worth holding to a higher standard and therefore we shouldn't just accept all FromSoft games because of the company's pedigree.
Being difficult used to be a marketing strategy. If you think about it, the dark souls trilogy wasn't hard apart from 3. Easy bosses could be memorable, just think of pinwheel and many others. Going through undead burg was in itself a "boss fight", the literal boss at the end of it was just a payoff. In elden ring, the areas are just an empty section you have to run through in order to get to the real attraction: the boss at the end. People only talk about the bosses, there's no blighttown in this game, no gutter or any other well thought area designed to be a cool challenge for exploration, which sucks bc it's a game that wants you to explore so fucking bad. You can see they really wanted you to reach the bosses and forgot about everything else. There are entire sections filled with harder versions of previously encountered enemies (no design change, just larger hp and damage output), placed there just to serve as a space in between bosses. The bosses themselves are ridiculous. Difficulty on steroids, cheap attacks spammed, damage output on parody levels, speed and poise always on max, and the HP bar seems endless. It's like you're fighting champion gundyr but he only does the annoying charge attack, only now there's also an AOE to punish your correct dodge timing at the end. BUT, if you read 300 pages of wiki, do what the RUclips community is telling you to do in over 60 hours of videos, you'll be able to beat everything. You just have to kill your build and reduce your character to this specific set of items people are telling you to use. Very nice. I made a reddit post asking what should I do to fix the frame drops on my fucking 4060. I shit you not, my post was downvoted to hell and there was people dunking on me for complaining about my framerates dropping from 60 to 25 for seemingly no reason. Because God forbid this ultimate masterpiece gets ANY SINGLE PIECE of criticism right?
Yes! I think the subterranean shunning grounds were the best area in the game, but even they come nowhere near the feeling and aesthetics of the depths and blight town (although I didn't really like the gutter that much).
@@aenesidemus_schulze I'm biased bc ds2 is my favorite, but you're right. Every level in ds trilogy had a really well thought exploration process. People would often talk about sections of the map, not just bosses. Sen's fortress, undead burg, the whole first half of ds1 was really well put together and not just about the bosses. Ds2 was also like this, even shrine of Amana (an area people like to piss on) was elaborated in a way you would see exploration as a challenge and not just the boss at the end. When you're not rushing with torrent and missing all the challenge, you're dealing with areas that feel so devoid of planning they're just there to fill the gaps.
HP bar endless? ER DLC bosses outside of PCR melt with any build My dude many fights won't last more than 3-4 mins if You take your time, or you are playing no upgrades no schadutree fragments? If this was monster hunter or Dragon's dogma 1 i would have believed you, in mhw Arch tempered nergigante fight lasted 45 min to defeat and Daimon first form from dd1 almost an hour in My final try but bcs the sword and shield vocation sucks 😭
@@LaloBalteus By the time you reach certain bosses, they'll have huge hp bars and take insignificant damage. On new attempts and knowing where to get all the good stuff to make the very specific builds that will melt them, they'll in fact melt. I don't play games with the wiki open, I try to experience stuff the intended way. And the fact is ER sucks ass on orienting the player towards the tools that create accessibility and exposes a boss weakness, and to be honest, "melting" a boss mostly consists on spamming an attack and playing the most boring way possible. I liked when boss fights weren't about numbers and spamming specific moves. And knowing that bosses are all there is to talk about the average elden ring experience says a lot. To complement what I've said in the comment, I wouldn't mind the bosses overdesign issue if the game posed more thoughtful challenges on the spaces in between boss fights. When you make a game experience revolve around bosses you'll have not much to compensate when someone don't like your boss fights, which is my case. I don't like queelag but blighttown is a great area that matters on itself gameplay and lorewise.
I want more of the feeling i got in dark souls 1. Slowly progressing through, wondering if im even going the right way and searching for a bonfire while getting lower and lower on heals and then feeling relief when you find some unexpected shortcut back to your bonfire. It almost felt like a survival horror game. Now i dont really feel the tension, you can pretty much always tell what the shortcuts are(and in elden ring they feel mostly pointless since you almost always spawn next to the boss room). This must be how the resident evil fans felt going from the og games to 4-6
@@jamesbarnett5157 lol stop evading. All I said was a fact that you want ds1 feels in elden ring like what 😂😂 go play ds1 and stop living in the past or wait for the next ds1 remaster in2045 kid 😂
@@23beats28 lmao no. Again if you're argument is "you only like it cause nostalgia" you aren't even worth arguing with. Elden ring has no tension, there's no cool shortcuts or level design. There's no more creative traps like mimics and elevators that have spikes at the top etc. The only thing elden ring has is bosses and even then the only the main ones are good, and even some of the main bosses are just reused ideas from previous games like rykard. Not to mention they pretty much just keep repeating the same story. Artorias, ludwig, and radahn are all basically the same character. Elden ring sucks and they either need to do something completely different or make another game like ds1
37:27 1-2 years from now, more and more videos will come out criticizing the flaws of Shadow of The Erdtree. Same thing happened with Tears of The Kingdom.
Already plenty of videos. The problem is that right now all the videos are knee jerk reactions to getting your shit kicked in. Like if its not your cup of tea then cool, but its an evolution on what they're good at. Far better than any AAA game in the past 5 years.
Tears of the kingdom already has videos like that after a month it came out. The difference is that that's a whole ass sequel that took 6 years to develop. Meanwhile this is a Dlc that took 1.5-2 years.
totk had a lot of videos like that pretty early on because it wasn't hard to realize how mid it was like it feels like more of a dlc than shadow of the erdtree, THE ACTUAL DLC
I loved most of the bosses both in Elden Ring and in the DLC but having Rahdan as a last boss was a disappointment for me. With that being said i fully i agree about the Shadow Tree fragment system being bad and the world is to big and empty. They should have made it a way more focused experience imo instead of one huge fetch quest.
Feeble clout chaser is back. I can't believe you already open the video with such a bad take. Your Breath of the Wild example is so stupid. Yes, if the weapons in Breath of the Wild did not break and were different and unique to one another i would do every single shrine i found (unlike what i did when i played, because the rewards were boring and predictable). I would not care about searching where to get the "Only important items" because nobody needs their hearts and stamina maxed in order to enjoy and beat the game, A lot of people want to get fun new option to use in combat and find that to be much more rewarding than a boring stat upgrade. Why can't you get that through your head? All the weapons are the same if you ignore Weight, Moveset, Looks, Damage, Damage Type, Posture damage, Speed, Range and unique ashes of war. So basically, if you ignore everything and boil down to the most basic point of comparison they are the same? That is so dishonest, Loopine already called you out for this in his reaction to your previous video.
I don't think he is dishonest on purpose he is just really stubborn and often perceives his feelings as facts. Pretty similar to Joseph Anderson, which is funny considering how he was the inspiration for this channel
Are you dumb? His BOTW example was exactly on point. The reason people do the shrines is so they can get the Spirit Containers to increase their stamina and hearts. If the only thing they offered were some shitty breakable weapon nobody would want to do them. Acting like people dont care about Spirit Containers because you dont need max of them is absolutely troglodyte thinking. Who gives a shit if all the weapons have those slight differences? You arent going to be majorly changing the way you approach a boss. Who cares if some weapon has a cool weaponart, when the punish window is so small you wont be able to use it without getting hit as a result. Not to mention its generally better to just get more hits in with regular attacks then trying to do something fancy. Lol at posture damage when you cant even see the posture bar, which From purpsefully hides for some strange reason. Why are Fromsoft fanboys so purposefully obtuse?
@@NewSorpigal1 It's different. "This experience would suck and be absolutely unacceptable in any open world game, yet is literally the framework Shadow of the Erdtree is built around" This is an objective statement. To whom exactly this would be unnaceptable? Certainly not for me, but he says it as is it is an absolute truth that we all agree upon instead od framing it as his opinion. It would be the same as your friend, while having zero experience when it comes to how you craft an instrument to say that Guitar is badly made, that is a poor product and that it should be considered bad by any musician worth their salt.
@@NewSorpigal1 That is not how it works, specially on the internet, I someone presents what they are saying as fact, they will be callet out on it. Rightfully so. This also shows a lack of writing skills had he said something on the effect of "I don't understand why people like this world design so much, i found it to be extremely boring" we would not be having this conversation as nobody would have a problem with that, I understand he mentions later in the video that these are all his opinions, but this is simply not good enough, If someone is new to this channel and misses this video for whatever reason, they wil not have this information and even after stating something like that you need to make sure you understand what you are saying to your audience at every moment. This is the same thing that happened with Joseph Anderson and his "subjectivity is implied video". It is the creator's job to clarify and distinguish their opinions from fact, not up to the audience to keep guessing for them
I hope these games will go back to a more Metroid-Vania style of world design, open-world makes it magical the first playthough but holy shit it damages replayability just as much imo
I stopped after "if you use a guide it's gonna be boring". It's a dlc after a hundred hours of playtime. Is supposed to give you beautiful views to appreciate, a few new weapons to play with and challenging new bosses. And it delivers on all of these fronts. Ioved it and don't buy those weird, endlessly repeated on RUclips arguments at all. Build your own opinion instead of repeating what others are saying.
Hard agree on the build propositions. ER basically has two playstyles, caster and melee. They had a chance to change up the gameplay organically with hand2hand arts, but failed miserably since R2 and AoW spam are still the most meta way to play them. They somehow made boss rewards even shittier than in base game, already a low bar since most rememberances are worse than what you find in the overworld. They could have left the bosses difficult but made fighting mobs more fun. I hope they're glad their enemy design literally incentivizes you to run past them. But hey, they got me good. By the time I realized what a clown show this was, it was too late to refund.
31:48 No. What you've done here is you've created enough distance to not be up close anymore. That's not always possible, far from it. You've attacked with jump heavy and she decided to start waterfowl before it landed? You're locked in recovery animation and you're doomed. You fight with a heavy weapon? You're probably doomed. You've spent 0.4s too long to realise her jump is a start of waterfowl? You're doomed. At that point there's nothing you can do, you can't even throw the bomb, she'll kill you before it leaves your hand. Joseph's point still stands. Overall I think (and I find it funny) you and Joseph actually agree on boss points, you just name the things differently. What you call "a blind spot that I can't believe I couldn't see before but now that I see it i find the boss to be very fair" he calls "an unintuitive exploit you need 20 dumb deaths to accidentally stumble upon", both are the same thing and some people find it (along with abundance of cheap moves like unnaturally delayed attacks and combo follow ups that read your input) unacceptable. Correct me if I'm wrong, no malice intended. Great review regardless.
What I found w malenia (first phase when she is passive a lot): she either attacks or waits. If you approach her and she attacks straight away it WILL be a hyper armor/wfd attack. If she has a delay when you get close it is always a staggerable attack. With this knowledge and getting in a rhythm where you back up and focus on positioning after every attack you make its pretty consistent to dodge all her attacks, phase 2 is easier imo
Waterfowl discussion is all moot anyway because you can dodge it and just get hit once, which is equivalent to one heal (of which you have 14). People are obsessed with bosses being possible hitless for the average person and I don't understand it
@@Soundwave1900 if you miss the dodge on the first swing of hers, it's equivalent to missing the dodge on any other boss's grab or jump and slam, which is almost always a one shot death for all of them, too.
Its so sad how dark souls 1 was methodical, almost relaxing, slow and strategic. Yet elden ring is wastefully big besides the visuals and so fadt paced its no longer relaxing
Just the substance for its source, not the trash they label as a reward for participating. I play the boss fight for the boss fight, not what I might get for defeating it. I explore the world to explore it, to fight views and great sights. Not for items. I hate open worlds with crap in every corner, it spoils the enjoyment of just existing in the game.
@@sartavinnot even that. I have godawful adhd and I found exploring everything really fun. Don’t use most of the items I find but that’s okay. I think Brodie is just whining.
I'm guessing the unreasonably hard boss design is for marketing, it keeps the people talking long enough until its the right time for them to release a fix patch
@@debater452 Yes. DS3 bosses were fun even if their mechanics were similar. They should build off of that instead of making it less fun. Its not fun running away from an undodgable nuke every time the bosses hp hits 50% and then watching him fly around for 15 minutes because Im in a Michael Bay movie all of a sudden. dodging a flailing Midir and repositioning to catch him when he calms down is more fun that watching Bayle LARP as a Fighter Jet.
@@debater452 Bloodborne is my favourite game in the series, it taught me to be more aggressive in all the Souls games. My issue is that I like using a big slow sword, so even when I want to be aggressive, I get punished because my attacks come out too slow. dodging into a 7-10 hit combo from Morgott/ Rellana/ Melania isnt a great experience for me. I wish those bosses would calm down a bit. The other bosses are fine. Dancing w/ the Ulcerated Tree sprit and other bosses are fine. They have wind-ups and I can usually tell what they are doing so sticking close to them works for me and my slow weapon. The Sekiro bosses need to chill. Gael is a great example of a boss I can be aggressive with, with a slow weapon, because he doesnt have an anime mode. He clearly gets tired after doing a long chain of attacks.
4:46 I hate how some of the coolest ash of war are too slow to be used in bosses. I got a hammer from a new crucible knight and I tried to use it for a boss fight but I kept losing. I thought the spinning hammer would be a hit box but it wasn't. So I swapped back to my original
It got buffed. Its faster now It also wasn't that bad in the first place either, I used it pretty well vs midra. You've just gotta stance break or find the right openings.
@@makito106depends. If you have the right setups there are a bunch of things that would do better damage than a crit. Keep in mind that staggered enemies take a lot more damage generally, not just because of the crust you could do.
IDK if you have addressed this already but your issue with healing during an attack window healing boss posture can be solved by using throwing/fan daggers after you heal. I'm not saying it's intuitive game design but it improved the pace of the fights a lot for me
If you get bored from the comment response sections you can skip to 58:24 where I try to be as honest as possible with you about my feelings on the DLC.
This video should serve as my final statement about Shadow of the Erdtree. I think I greatly angered the Fromsoft community with my last video, and although I still agree with the bulk of my criticisms I now think I should’ve delivered them in a way that was less polarizing. I tried to do that with this video, but it is difficult for me to communicate in a way that isn’t upsetting to those who disagree with me because of how emotional I can get.
Sorry to all the people who were expecting an, “In Defense of Shadow of the Erdtree” video because it will not come (unless it’s a four minute April fools joke video). I only made the “In Defense of Elden Ring Boss Design” video to correct misinformation spread by me and other RUclipsrs, and to show people that they can have fun with the bosses as rhythm challenges despite the learning process being boring. Shadow of the Erdtree repeats the same central mistake from the base game’s boss design of having too much trial and error while offering what I see as much worse exploration and less interesting legacy dungeons. If you disagree that’s fine. I just want to clear up the confusion.
And to clear up more confusion, me saying in my critique that I wished Shadow of the Erdtree didn't exist never meant that I was saying the DLC was terrible. All it meant was that I would rather have Fromsoft release a higher quality title after multiple years of development, and that Shadow of the Erdtree could be significantly better if they took a few more years to make into a full sequel with reset progression trees and more quality content in the open world.
To address one more thing about Joseph Anderson, what he said specifically about waterfowl dance is this: "It’s hard to take this seriously, even though swear to God I really try, when some people take these talking points and run with them so far that they’ll defend waterfowl blade when again, it doesn’t even have a developer intended way of dealing with it when up close… It is very difficult to have a conversation about any possible troublesome moves in the game when the argument is because you can xbox 360 around her at the start of waterfowl or throw a frost pot that it is ‘technically avoidable therefore skill issue therefore get good therefore stop yapping.’” I believe there is a developer intended way to dodge it up close. You run away after hitting Malenia and jump as it almost reaches you, although rolling can work as a worse substitute. I'm not saying that waterfowl dance is good, I'm just saying that he was missing a piece of information in his video. My larger issue with how Joe presented his argument is that he only used one piece of boss evidence to support his claim that he still dislikes many base game bosses, regardless of whether or not that evidence is true.
@@feebleking21 Honestly dude you’re entitled to your opinion & if a bunch of man children were upset for you giving it very valid and warranted criticism then that’s out of your control. I enjoyed the video and this one also. At least you have the guts to put what you feel out there for people to see, the sweats who are in the comments salty just hiding behind their username would never be grown enough to do that. Keep your head high Feeble King. The real ones who matter will always be around 🫡
@@Plz8662 I've read the comment section and most of the 'upset man children' were pointing out mistakes or politely disagreed with the author's opinion. Yes, this dlc has its flaws, but for me, it is a far stretch to call it the worst when I start to compare
@@upsideproductions2 lol my comment was about feeble going into a dlc disregarding all content aside bosses. When a part of why dlcs are so fun is due to the different build options and such by disregarding all of that it's missing the point that is one of the major pillars elden ring itself is designed around build diversity. There is a weapon for every build style every combination. You can have full spell builds, full buf builds shields are much better and a major component of many builds. Ashes of war create diverse options for many problems that originally you could only dodge roll for.
Like to disregard that is like not caring about the old hunters dlc amazing weapons or how it's update added more multiplayer options. And only caring about the 5 bosses of which only 2 I feel deserve their high praise.
Idk I feel if you do that your already shouting to the heavens that the game isn't want you want so now your going to complain about it. When so many people are having fun and loving their time. Feeble comes in and says your having fun wrong. He sounds exactly like the guy who says beating game while blindfolded is the only way to really play the game. Like compare rusty or demod and how they criticize the game they have all the same major criticism except they don't act like they are beyond fault and still have fun with the content provided. Feeble doesn't even seem like he enjoys soul games anymore unless he is doing a challenge run which the games will not provide for in every context and its unreasonable to think so.
I mean are you really a friend if you didn't give a pass for your dudes personal war crime level takes 🤣 That's his personality and it still not a crime yet so it's alright overall.
quit reading comments bro....if you read this stop!
maybe the misunderstood masterpiece was the friends we made along the way
i recommend you source joe's "subjectivity is implied" video. i know that he influenced you but that section is rough, man. you shouldn't take his words as your own, at least mention him.
Just blatant plagiarism of the person is "glazing" instead of actually responding to.
Dont worry next vid he will gaslight you saying he changed the words so its ok and you're harrasing him.
@@rvg3250respect my feeble king😡
In one year: Shadow of the Erdtree is a misunderstood masterpiece
Very original, never seen before comment. GOAT
Based on what, dumbo? When has he flip-flopped ever?
Yeah April 1st is gonna go crazy
Considering it was developed in less than 2.5 years, it was kind of a masterpiece to begin with. A flawed masterpiece just like the base game. A DLC that introduces 8 new weapon types, 10 story bosses, several mini bosses, a huge new map with more verticality than ever and even some straight up new mechanics like the Sekiro style deflecting is wild.
@@theincrediblefella7984 You must be fun at parties
I don't understand this whole "responding" culture among RUclipsrs who review or critique From's games. It's almost like there's some weird competition over whose opinion is correct... when critique should just be about putting your critical thoughts out there earnestly and eloquently, and that's that. I guess it does fit into the whole general insecurity and ego that permeate this developer's community like almost none else...
It’s because they are whores who just pretend to have opinions to drive engagement. Response videos let them do more pretending for more money.
1hr video to subtlety prove an opinion to be right when this can be explained in way less time without the catchy title of “disappointing”
L plagiarism. Literally copied Joseph Anderson’s video “subjectivity is implied” bar for bar. disliked video nerd
hate the kind of baseless speculation into why the developers made decisions(like keeping torrent off in elden beast for two years then turning it on). you can not ever know why the developers intent without them saying themselves. it’s equally likely that they heard the criticism and decided to change it to match, or that they just came to the conclusion it was better with torrent available over time, but of course it’s better for your video if they did this on purpose to make it harder at the cost of quality, which you have no way of knowing and is complete speculation. assuming the worst 90% of the time is not “constructive criticism” and is just as toxic as denying criticism to begin with.
Let me start off by saying some of your criticism is valid (from an objective standpoint) like the empty areas that I wished had more content like the finger ruins, cerulean coast etc. and the mediocre rewards, and some of your personal gripes are understandable but there are somethings you as a player need to keep in mind as well. Let me clarify by saying I am not trying to attack you personally and I understand they are your opinion but as someone who makes video criticism you need to take in to account opinions other than your own. The tree sentinels present in the DLC appears as a lazy reskin if solely focusing on gameplay but lore wise the are Marika's knights protecting her hometown (this shows that you should consider some explanation other than your own as to why things are they way they are in the game - tangent this is also one of the reasons I love the game as gameplay and story are mixed). Also I think @IggyTthunders makes a great point of why you are getting so much backlash for your videos.
Another thing while I agree that From should start moving in a different direction I still enjoy the current formula and if you don't then that is your problem not the developers. They are making a product they are proud of, if you don't enjoy it that's not their fault ("A game for everyone is a game for no one") . You are also very reductive in some of the criticism of people telling you to try other options such as spirit ashes etc. If you don't want to use them that is your choice but understand that they are there to be used and by not using them you are putting yourself in a difficult situation.
On the rewards you talk a lot about not finding something you can use due to build but as many people have said this has always been the case - why not try different build (even if its just a new playthrough that one of the fun things of this game the anticipation of trying new things and in my case getting more story). Another criticism I will point out is that you say runes are no longer a reward because of softcap but most softcaps are 60 while your character shows stats in the 40s.
last thing Ill say, you are not getting this much flak because the fan base is a cult, you are getting it due to people not agreeing with your statement that you put forth as facts. Your title is a good example the first part is objective but you try and correct it by saying to me which in subjective these two parts of a single line are at odds with one another and makes the viewer feel like you disingenuous (trying to retro actively cover yourself). You could have made this whole video just about your problems with the DLC (while still taking into consideration other perspectives because that is how valid criticism is formed) and I think you would have gotten less flak (or at least less valid).
I think what i hated the most was just coming across low tier upgrade materials no reason to come across smiting 1 and 2 when i can purchase them 10 mins into a fresh save
What would you add in their place
@@debater452 Actually decent crafting materials. The dlc is basically at the end of the game, I would want something that actually has purpose.
I would agree but the thing is a lot of people didn't find those on their first blind playthroughs. In the future, not everybody who starts the DLC does so after combing the entire map for 2 years straight to prepare OP endgame builds (most often with the help of guides). The smithing stone 1-6 and somber 1-4 bell bearings are hidden in optional side dungeons that require you to spot a small cave on a cliff wall. I think these rewards were added so the people who hit the DLC and find a cool weapon will be able to use them, especially those who play blind or start the game 5 years from now.
@@eser8167So cater to the minority that get to the dlc with low tier weapons instead of the majority that have finished the game and had their characters leveled up with max or close to max level weapons before the dlc came out? Sounds wack go me.
@@eser8167Fucking what? There is a smithing stone in the first fucking church in the game!
Its funny because all the criticisms that this DLC is getting is plainly how I felt about the base game.
A lot of the core issues like too much empty space stem from the worst parts of the base game like mountain top of the giants. I think the poor rewards, more copy paste, and more empty space in the DLC made these issues much worse for me.
Agreed. I wouldn't want a Dark Souls game with Elden Ring's boss design, and Elden Ring is four times bigger.
Elden Ring attack patterns are extremely unintuitive. The intended method of avoiding damage should be immediately obvious. Sekiro introduced more than just blocking and dodging, so it introduced the Perilous Attack system where you're expressly told that you can't merely block the next incoming attack and that you must take another action.
You're lying if you tell me that jumping over that one Maliketh attack is intuitive. (yes you *can* roll it, but jumping is way easier *if* you know to do it, and that's a big if.)
I never really liked base game elden ring it was tied with ds2 as my least favorite fromsoft game and i never got the hype for it, I expected the same from the dlc, but it turned out to be my favorite dlc they've ever made and I don't really know why
@@kiamehrgh3081it's all marketing . fromsoft + open world + GRRMs name attached = 💰💰💰
True! It's interesting to see more people coming around to the opinion I had when I was in Liurnia. Somewhat cathartic really.
Community is dumb and soft. Tied a game to their self worth
Fr
Dumbsoft
They just didn't level intelligence
Complete strawman argument
I mean you are the one who assumes that every player who likes these games attach thier self worth to them and is therefore dumb which is pretty stupid in itself
I think Joe’s point about waterfowl dance is that there doesn’t seem to be an intended way to dodge it point blank. Is the intended solution really supposed to be “hit her once and only once and then run the fuck away because she might do a move with no other recourse that will wipe you out if you don’t”?
If that’s seriously the case, then that is a whole different issue in my opinion because then you are playing the entire fight passively in fear of the ever-looming threat that is waterfowl dance. A move should not be so powerful and unavoidable that you constantly have to run away from the boss whenever there’s a chance they *might* do it
Absolutely agree. As someone once said (and I was saying it too) no solution to this move that is presented in the game doesn't seem to be a developers intended way to avoid it. They just dumped this move in the game, didn't test it whatsoever and hoped that players will get around this somehow (and we did), that's not gamedesign.
It honestly does kinda ruin her fight.
Not to mention the heal on hit, even if you use a shield lol
@@esincorporated6123 it's not when you master circling around. One day, in the distant future I will make a guide to it and call it something like "The ultimate guide how to dodge waterfowl dance" but in a nutshell you can do it on medium load, without locking off and you're rolling through her, not away, and then make additional roll in whatever direction. It's pretty consistent when you don't mess up and take only chip damage if a little bit late. If you start circling preemptively it works absolutely perfect (and you can predict it on the 1st phase since it's scripted).
@@jubei7259 yeah, it's stupid unfair and tedious mechanic that is not even justified by lore, very cheap and artificial way to ramp up the difficulty. And this ability working through the shield not only makes shield strategy obsolete in this fight but it also is absolutely nonsensical since she isn't hurting you, she's only scraping the metal, why the f is she stealing your life by that?
I will forever abhor exploring 10 minutes of dead time just to be rewarded with a cookbook with a recipe i'll never use
Fully agree. That was the worst part of the DLC.
"I will never use" this is the key words here. I personally enjoyed most of the crafting items that i could use and have fun with, same shit people complained about spirit ashes when you finish a dungeon, i didnt use any but it is still a reward for people who use it, there is no way you can make every build equally happy in a *game*.
tell me one time this happened
@@percifio1626 Stop gaslighting us and saying you found crafting materials enjoyable. Nobody did. Nobody gave a shit about cookbooks
@@percifio1626 Crafting systems in general suck. Instead of giving me a firebomb here's one ingredient, and then an hour later here's another ingredient, and then later another ingredient. And now I can open a menu click a button and spawn it into existence. That's so much fun 😂
I follow this channel because the singular arguments you make can be interesting but the conclusion always seems like rage bait
That’s because it is
@@NewSorpigal1 Or it’s just an asinine conclusion?
Perfectly fine to critique the DLC and say it’s not perfect. Nothing is. But then concluding with “worst DLC they’ve ever made” (they’ve literally made a $15 DLC with one area and two bosses before) is quite a reactionary take. No? And no amount of “I meant all DLCs packed together for each game” will nullify the clickbaity nature of that statement.
@@zaynthemane yea i think people are willing to think that past ones get passes by virtue ot not being as relavant. Like my hot take aside ashes dks artorias is easily the second worst dlc. It has three distinct areas, with the shortest being the only one with actual places to explore and hidden fun things to discover. The bosses are the only thing holding it up and thats only becouse base game dks i think has some of the most underwhelming bosses as a package. There is reason ornstein and smough are the only bosses from the base game ever talked as of they accomplished somthing great. (Though i think the gargoyles is under apreciated).
Like just the catacomb dungeons from this dlc are better than the whole dlc areas of the worst. A lot of people just cant get over that the overwolrd os meant to be a cool set peice vs like the main gimmick.
@@NewSorpigal1 I understand that that's why I understand why there isn't a large vocal community of people saying hey this is some B's like when they did dark souls remastered and didn't even fix many bugs. I just find it funny that the concept of having fun in the dlc by interacting and exploring even if sometimes not the greatest it is somehow being claimed to be among the worst dlcs. When in reality it's areas are among the best of any dlc. Sure you can argue bosses. But the only area of a dlc I felt more involved with and satisfied with was sunken city. Most dlc areas and enemies up tend to have the same problems as elden rings more problematic ones. Except elden has a lot more content spread over it. So while some enemies such as furnace golems are stupid. People forget adjudicator giants from ringed City are worse. We have the horned warriors, who are almost always by themselves, vs Alley way of the big bois and angel firing decks. I like ringed City but it's bosses and side paths are doing all the heavy lifting of making it good. The legacy dungeon of the shadow keep is among my favorite areas to explore given it seems to have infinite books and crannies and a variety of ways to explore it.
Also feeble is among has become an ultra jaded purist. Bro went in said I don't care about any new content only bosses and the scadu system. Which is entirely a difficulty slider. And like if I whent in to bloody dark souls and said naw this game is trash because the bosses are underwhelming most would rightfuly laugh at such a reductive point. Even feeble in his sl1 runs considers bosses the only metric worth considering which is just never been the case. Areas and standard enemies are more important to general health of a game. It's a part of why dks2 scholar feels worse is by adding so many additional enemies it makes areas feel badly designed.
Also while it's cool that artorias is as good as it is. Still doesn't help it's last area is one where enemies can one shot or tickle you to death.
W Take, but as the comment above me said, it was way back and for the time it was great
My issue with the original video was calling the people who like the dlc and defend it, "cult like."
Like, dude, their just defending something they like.
The community has a lot of people that just defend everything fromsoft does despite their games having actual objective issues. Those are the cult like individuals. Pretending they don't exist is disingenuous.
@@kenethernandez6246 I just find making fun of fanbases in a review of the game itself very childish. Granted some are warrented, like the Undertale fandom, but you can't really say its a lot of people when a 90% of the fanbase is fine. If anything your giving the few toxic people more power then they deserve by just making fun of them then you would ignoring them.
@@kenethernandez6246 If anything pretending they don't exist is the best possible solution since, in the end, all these people crave is attention. Ignoring them might make them see how big the internet is and realize there opinion isnt as important as they thought. You have to be really selfcl centered to not think that after that.
I don't think there's a single game fandom that is more cult like than that of fromsoft games. Under EVERY video critique of their games you're bound to find multiple npc comments saying stuff in the vein of "skill issue, git gud" disregarding any actual points. You must have noticed it, unless you're one of them.
@@BrovarSpirytusI think you're taking it too seriously. Most people say it just for the memes. Me and my friends say it all the time to each other, even though we have a lot of problems with elden ring
I don't agree with the rewards section. You are basically saying that you only care for the rewards and not for the experience the catacombs/dungeons the game can provide. So would a bad dungeon be converted into a good one if they gave you 10 fragments at the end? (If that's the case then Gaius is the best boss of the game). Because in my opinion the catacombs in the DLC were a huge improvement from the base game and them not having fragments at the end of them doesn't automatically turn them into boring for me.
Didn’t play dlc but main game dungeon are horrible, horrid ,disgusting, boring, dumb and Aids
@@Stinkymoe ok main game catacombs are mot that bad they are just as mid as mid can be its so completely inoffensive while absolutely not memorable. I wouldnt categorize them as horrid, its just so goddamn mid.
Well I agree with you that you should experience all of the dlc on your first time through, there’s still the factor of replay ability. I liked experiencing the catacombs and all the other stuff about it but after that I’m not gonna do the catacombs every time I go to ng+. He’s right in that many of the main fights should have honestly given you fragments since boss fights are kinda how you progress and their really good so yeah.
@@Stinkymoe The base game catacombs and caves had an issue of being repetitive which is a valid criticism. Most reused the same copy and pasted layouts and segments. The way you worded your complaint makes me not want to take your opinion seriously since it doesn't seem genuine and lacks context. Fromsoft actually listened and handmade all the dlc caves and catacombs so they offer more unique experiences. Some don't require boss kills to complete either unlike all the base game ones.
You are correct that making the mini dungeons more rewarding would not make the content good for me. It would only be what I see as accomplishing the bare minimum. To make exploration good I would need the map to be smaller, the mini dungeon bosses to be more interesting, and for those mini dungeons to give substantial rewards for all builds.
I would enjoy the game a good bit more if they patched bosses to drop scadutree fragments, but it's only one step. The experience of running around empty fields finding reskinned overworld bosses from the base game needs to go as well (in my opinion).
And no, I do not think Gaius is the best boss in the game, although I do think he is one of the only ones that accomplishes the bare minimum of having good extrinsic rewards for all builds. That alone doesn't make him better than Messmer, but I also think Messmer would be even better if I got 2 scadutree fragments for beating him.
Is the problem with delayed attacks the memorization part? I am confused since this is how I thought everyone learned even normal attacks. Is what you want to have attacks that are purely able to be dodged the first or second time upon seeing them for the first time?
The funnest part is learning how a boss works to truly master it, and even when a boss has a move that you can very clearly dodge, you still have to memorize when that move is gonna come out so you can be prepared, which is not different from a delayed attack. I think it's the perfect way to increase difficulty naturally, since it's the same system as before, memorizing the next move that will come.
It is even more hair raising having to suppress your instincts of wanting to dodge but waiting until the right moment to do so, much like having to suppress panic rolling so that each roll becomes deliberate. Ofc this is just one aspect of the boss movesets which I just particularly like, there are a ton of other mechanics that go into it that could be critiqued.
I wouldn't say that's the issue. It's relying heavily on delayed attacks to create an artificial difficulty. Some delays are fine but when everything has a delay it shows either a lack of creativity or effort to make better enemy attacks that don't depend of delays to create difficulty. Older games had challenging attack patterns. Now it's challenging attack timings and the switch up is not appreciated by many people.
@@kenethernandez6246exactly, I started NG+ today and hadn’t fought Margitt in a while. He absolutely dogwalked me the first time because honestly 80% (EIGHTY PERCENT) of his attacks are OVERLY delayed attacks that make no sense. Why is the boss raising their hand for 5s as though stretching only to randomly move into a 7-hit ultra fast combo?!?! It is STUPID
I think the biggest issue with this dlc could have been avoided if they decided to make it more in line with their previous dlcs by making multiple shorter dlcs rather than one huge big one like this. It feels like they were trying to make an entire new Elden Ring game with how many new weapons types, consumables, and crystal tears they added, but because of how big they wanted to make it they ended up not having enough overall content to fit into the giant scope of the game. I think they were tying to do too much all at once, and because of that they ended up falling short in a little too many areas. My opinions of the dlc have only gotten more aggressive the more I played it, and the things I disliked I now hate, but the things I liked I now love. Some of the bosses I love, some of them I despise, but the entire time I've spent playing this dlc has only made me wish more and more that this was a smaller more linear dlc like how they did previously, rather than a giant new open world that is so big it just ends up being exhausting to explore. They tried something new and I respect it, but I really hope they look at this and decide to go back to how they made their previous dlcs
Imagine how cool the dlc could have been if it was just shadow keep connecting to small overworld zones and other legacy dungeons.
@@feebleking21 I would have loved that. They could have spent all their time making shadow keep the best legacy dungeon in the game. But for me that's probably Leyndell Capital. Would have gladly paid for just shadow keep if they focused their entire development on it
I did enjoy shadow of the erdtree like i did with elden ring
No one asked you though.
@@upsideproductions2who gives a shit it's his opinion he's just saying it
@@skorpon78His response was rude but I think he's just making the point that the comment brings nothing to the table. And its Feebles video not his.
@@austin0_bandit05it brings his opinion which he is allowed to state. Im sure somewhere in this video feeble asked commenters for their opinions on the dlc as well. Haven’t watched yet but this happens in like every video ever
@@slothorne8222 But why state it and lend nothing to the discussion? Feeble makes an hour long analysis and your contribution is "I liked it"? His opinion is fine and I dont actually care he stated it randomly but pretending to be oblivious as to why it would irk people is disingenuous
Fromsoft be like...damn we got a big empty area...ok make there be blue flowers everywhere. Damn we got another one ok red flowers this time
Yo fr. I love this game. But some of these Elden Ring fans need to chill with the blind love they have for the game. It's a fact that this DLC has way too many empty spaces... This should be taken as positive feedback. From Soft can take this feedback and make an even better game in the future. By staying loyal and not calling out issues with the game. They are actively making the game worse.
Straight up
😂
@@DarkReaperK97 they are probably aware actually
Can’t explain how underwhelming it was going from one empty, pointless area to another. The most annoying part was Cerulean coast being one of the best looking areas they’ve ever made and there is absolutely nothing to do there.
Omg why are you doubling down on the build variety point AHHHHH lmfao. You being stubborn and not liking 95% of what fromsoft is offering is not a them problem thats a you problem. Theres nothing wrong with not liking Souls games especially more challenging modern ones. At the core theyre simple action rpgs that push limited mechanics to the max. If youre not big on that and want an action focused game with great combos this just aint that game.
And while i understand peoples point about the empty open world. I dont get why its a problem here but not for shadow of the collosus when both games are aiming for similar feels.
Or hell Nier or Breath of the Wild. I'd argue the Metroidvania style open world in Shadow is far more interesting than either of those games even if there's downtime. That's just a consequence of open world.
Because in shadow of the collossus it gives you a feeling of solitude. You’re the only living being asides from some small birds and other animals thatre in the ruins and wilds of a strange land. It builds up the majesty of these towering beasts all the more. In elden ring I see a dragon for the third time in the wild and just sigh knowing it’ll have the same move set and weaknesses of most other dragons. Same for any other roaming boss. It doesn’t feel unique or memorable.
@snubcaboose132 yeah while I get that idk the souls series has definitely always captured that same solitude maybe not quite as bleak as something like Collosus but ultimately you are one of very few "sane" people in a long lost world. A world that has driven its population to the brink of existence. You look back at even DS1 and you get that same feeling just in smaller bite sized chunks
@violetjune5046 The emptiness isn't due to a lack of Npcs, though. When you travel through the empty world of sotc, the end goal of that is to fight a big monster, that's it. You get zilch for doing it. Elden Ring is an Rpg that uses other incentives alongside the promise of a boss. Sure its pretty, but when you spend 10 minutes mashing B through a pretty field with reused enemies, just to get a recipe book that let's you craft a pot that makes enemies think of flowers and shit themselves or something, it feels empty because for everyone who isn't going to use that in their build, it is empty.
Feel I need to mention that not getting anything in shadow of the colossus isn't a bad thing, the game is explicitly about killing the 12 colossus, and there are never any hints or promises at other weapons or cool items. (Outside of the optional lizards that give you more stamina)
The fromsoft community has some really great people but being involved in various groups across the internet has shown me how single-minded and toxic the fanbase can be at times, especially with how big it's gotten due to Elden Ring. I can tell a lot of the comments here didn't finish the video (which he ironically mentions). I will never understand how weird people get when it comes to this game and criticism against it.
yeahhh just call the fanbase toxic when they show your argument is flawed and you need to approach the game with a different mindset because it just doesn't want you to approach it exactly like you did to other games of the same creator. Exact same thing happened with Sekiro, everybody cried ''too hard'' without ever engaging with the game's mechanics but it's just the greatest combat game of all time. we can't accept every argument because they're an opinion. some opinions are wrong.
@@travisbickle3835 again, proving my point. Imagine getting offended by a youtuber's opinion of a game or the addressing the toxic part of the fanbase. If you're not one of them, then why comment or become offended?
Form glazers needs to stop seeing every single criticism as a "bad opinion" (and sidepoint, any time you spend money on *anything* you are entitled to an opinion) even if you don't agree with it. Just click off the video and move on. I cannot understand people who actively watch and engage with things they disagree with and then write up nasty comments or get into it with other comments.
I didn't like the DLC, but I'm not going to every video that made a good review of it telling them they're wrong and writing novels as to why. I just don't watch them. People need to calm down 99% of the time and stop taking themselves so seriously.
The biggest flaws to me are how the map is largely too barren in the entire southern portion of the map. Quality over quantity is best imo.
Abyssal Woods and Cerulean Coast being the most memorably barren to me. Abyssal Woods was great the first time around because of the uncertainty you felt sneaking around it, but in replays, it’s just annoyingly large.
@@BaldOmniManonce you get past the ubtouchables it's a pretty straight run to Midra's manse to be fair. Otherwise the southern part of the map wasn't that barren. There was bits of action and relaxation as you moved through the area
@@valkeitosyeah, in my opinion though the overall area could stand to be maybe a quarter of the size it is.
The emptiness isn't great, I agree. But what irks me the most is that these empty areas are also the ones where the generic repeat enemies stand out the most. I would've preferred pure emptiness over this endless repetition, which feels so incredibly cheap.
I especially hate the 1 hp shadow people clogging the whole map and these reskin dragons. The dragons are so overdone I just hate them, and even though their new lich design is cool in and of itself, this isn't enough to make this feel new and refreshing. Nothing would've been better than this. Or maybe put a small lore inscription on a stone or something for variety but not this garbage.
"The only difference between most attacks are damage, posture damage, how long it takes to come out and range" So like... everything?
That's a lot of difference already and theres more you didn't even say (Recovery time, status buildup, number of hits, damage type, how wide the attack is).
Genuinely how much more difference could there be before you saw it as meaningful? This just makes no sense.
To be fair the highest ATR weapons are in the DLC and a DLC weapon became the new meta. I don’t know how to quantify these things for comparison but saying that the DLC weapons are underwhelming seems like a complaint people had the day after it came out and then once people played around more and found more that went away. In my experience anyway.
He’s just trolling. Don’t take this video seriously, just look at his video list.
They are. The best weapon from the dlc is the bloodfeins blood arm very fun and good weapon but you don’t even get it from a boss lol why couldn’t the bloodfein chief drop it?
I find the section on justifying not mentioning st trina questline incredibly questionable. You could've just said "only a cookbook and a lousy questline" with no pacing issues or requirement to explain the entire thing. Leaving it out when you're making a point and even using the term "only" is willful neglect, regardless of whether or not it reinforces your own opinion. Sure you may consider the questline a waste of time, but others may not. You have a responsibility to report accurately on objective matters, lest you misinform others.
I can't edit my comment on mobile, but quick correction, I don't think you said "only". Main point still stands.
I tend to not bring up opinions unless I spend time providing evidence to support the opinion, and I was hoping people would think through why I didn't mention Trina without me explaining it.
I also didn't consider Trina to be a reward so the thought didn't cross my mind that I needed to bring her up. That may have been a blindspot on my end.
@@feebleking21 how about the remembrance weapon of Putrescent Knight? that sure could have fit your build very well. dont know how to feel about you glossing over remembrance weapons too
@@glisteninggames2981 He ignores weapons bc he does not care about weapon variety in an RPG. His words not mine
@@horrorpsycho0508 I said that I don't care about weapon variety in reaction focused Fromsoft games where said weapon variety can easily break the action combat element. I care about weapon variety in many other RPGs and action games.
They didn't want to tie the scadutree fragments to bosses because they wanted you to be able to experience bosses at your desired level of difficulty. They said that in an interview before the expansion came out.
@@morgoth9590 Smithing stones as a progression system did it better. There's more than you need and you can afford to miss a dungeon or two. Fragments made exploration feel artificial and like a chore. Also I think in the end the opposite ended up happening. Lots of people -including myself- did the first few bosses probably under the ideal blessing level and then got to the 2nd half where they dump a bunch of them on you all at once and then I accidentally over-leved and absolutely bodied later bosses like Midra and Romina. I think the base game did it better as well where it kinda sets you up for an ideal level and you're vaguely aware of where you should be because the smithing stones are tiered -but if you're struggling with Margit lets say- you CAAAAN go to Caelid or Liurnia and get even stronger. And I think it boils down to how they built the map. Each biome acts as a segment that has its own tier of smithing stones (vaguely). And skipping biomes is a very deliberate choice. I think this is one instance where clarity was needed more than nebulous freedom. Also it makes it annoying trying to perfectly tune my own difficulty setting especially a boss I've never fought before in my life. Idk what I should expect for damage output and damage received. I'd rather have a boss that may be slightly more difficult than is ideal for me and git gud. Better than playing a guessing game. The systems intent for tuning my own difficulty isn't clear either unless you watched this interview
That's a good point. I have to say that I think the disadvantage of not having good rewards for all builds for completing content heavily outweighs the advantage of letting players experience bosses at their desired difficulty, especially since players can just choose not to level up or increase attack power after beating bosses like in Dark Souls or Sekiro to accomplish the same thing.
@@feebleking21 bro hasn’t heard there are these things called “runes” in the game that you get from every boss 🔥🔥
@@abyssoulland you clearly have no idea runes ain't the main way you progress in power in the dlc..
@@elitereptilian200 yeah man, only played it 5 times. Clearly I don’t know that scadutree fragments, runes, and smithing stones are useful for all builds. Scadutree fragments multiply both your attack and damage so they are more useful but you get millions of runes from the DLC. My first playthrough starting from level 130 I ended up level 170 and doing exponentially more damage because of levels alone. But sure, they don’t help if it fits the narrative that the game has no good rewards.
Feeble, you're poisoning the well when you marginalize an entire fanbase with no receipts, addressing specific remarks, effectively accusing the observer of a crime they typically will commit through reactance. i realize this argumentation is popular with millennials but it's called "priming". You're probably doing it reflexively but it doesn't do anything but put people's backs up. It's effective but sleazy as an escalation tactic; like telling someone to calm down when they're being perfectly calm. On the internet it's often mischaracterized as intellection; used by bad actors to put their opponent on their back foot.
Can i offer some healthy advice on how to be more sociable and grown up?
If that annoyed you, good. Then at least you have a gauge for what is and isn't blunt; we can start there.
When discussing something constructively it's less contentious to phrase one's arguments with affirmative "I" statements rather than accusatory "you!" statements. Ex. I think your review of the game is spot on, but, you're being a self-satisfied jackass to a fanbase for protecting a hobby that Sony, and the game journo industry, are explicitly villifying. You're making enemies bc cheap catharsis in a video matters more than sincere communication with people with whom you share a common interest. I'm a Fromsoft fan, i have 300+ hrs in ER, not including dozens of hours speculating on the periphery lore via environmental storytelling, but im not attacking you personally. Just your shitty put-upon attitude, and it is shitty.
We both want Fromsoft to get out of its way and stop recycling past glories, to embrace new mechanics, but your approach is so self-serving and bitter. You frankly need to git gud at observing and metabolizing valid criticism; that's part of growing up.
wah wah waaaah 😰🥶
Damn you must be like a psychologist or therapist something because like… wow.
>sick & tired of roll/r1 routine, complains about the player's toolkit being unchanged since DS3
>refuses to use anything but a straight sword and a dream, like he's still playing DS3
>baffled that the rewards in ER are primarily for increasing build variety; wishes he only found damage and defense buffs
Hmmm. Hrmm.
Weapon attacks really aren't all that different mechanically bro
All it boils down to is losing some openings and gaining more damage per hit to make up for it. And since all weapons are meant to be viable, even that difference doesn't matter really as it's gonna average out to take the same amount of time anyway, unless that specific weapon is OP. It's just about do you like big meaty hits or weaker but more consistent hits.
And ash of wars are way too long to use in a lot of cases so you can't count those either
@@Volsraphel We are clearly not using the same Ash of wars if you say they take too long to use.
But the combat DOES consist mostly out of rolls and the attacks you do differ only in damage outpout and posture break potential. The tools you are given have the only effect to have you interact less with the boss (by doing more damage and thus killing the boss quicker or by posture breaking him more often, so that he can land less attacks), not to interact in a better way.
@@petersvane-christiansen6587 What is the mechanical difference between square off and impaling thrust? The only slightly interesting ones are the dodge into attack ones like blind spot or blinkbolt. I know some are usable but they are just another version of attacking or buffing usually. Longer ones are just unusable and mobile ones require tons of trial and error to find opportunities to use for dodges.
@@lexiferenczy9695 you don't even need to roll half the stuff enemies do to you in this game... fromsoft combat has always been more about positioning. I find myself rolling LESS the more I understand a boss. Except for the final boss, that guys just kinda disappointing.
edit:
Also you say that weapons have no differences, but the minor differences in animation (beast claws crouching when chraged, wing stance having a jump in the r2, etc) lead to more opportunities to punish. Rellanna's twin moons have SO many bosses where an opening seems specifically made for it. Of course, there are a lot of "float and explode" type spells, but the fact that faith, int and arcane all have options for this type of spell is NOT a bad thing either. Having options just for flavor, or maybe even just damage type differences is perfectly fine. If you take power stance movesets and weapon arts into account, the options are both limitless, but also pointless, at least from an objective standpoint. Ultimately, as has always been the case, fromsoft games are about finding the fun as you play. Feeble seems to just want a "boss rush" game ds3 style, but elden ring actively goes out of it's way to avoid being like ds3.
Your entire section on how the trial and error is not fun just sounds like you're burnt out of these games.
This can definitely be the case. I think I really like ER and very rarely feel burnt out by it, and never when learning bosses, because I'm relatively new to the souls games (started with sekiro a few months prior to ER's release), while I'm assuming souls vets like feeble have 5,000 hours in all the souls games combined or something, which yeah, at that point, I'm sure learning new bosses that fit into the similar soulslike formula probably doesn't scratch the itch the way it used to.
He literally says that it plays a part in the video 😂. But beside that ER absolutely can be more tedious to learn than DS3. DS3 you kinda just go in and fling yourself at the boss until it works. ER asks a lot more of the player; positioning, delayed attacks, positional attacks, jumpable attacks, branching combos, input reading, heal windows, etc. Is it so unbelievable that it crossed people's thresholds between fun and frustration/boredom.
I found it a bit annoying that he simplifies the bosses to "hit and dodge", like yeah you're kinda right? But Consort Radahn and Metyr are hit and dodge bosses and I hate them, they're just boring as shit. But I love Messmer, who is also a "hit and dodge" I enjoyed learning him more than most bosses in the other souls games, and Rellana is great too.
And none of those gimmick bosses in Dark Souls were ever fun to me, I would like to see them keep trying with interesting boss ideas but they usually just fall flat for me.
@@austin0_bandit05 thats exactly what I adore about ER. Finding attack windows when the boss does delayed attacks, or jump over an attack to do my own feels great. I get how for some people it's not preferable to the old games. It's just the way many of these videos present it as bad game design instead of just saying it's not the kind of gameplay they enjoy.
@@petersvane-christiansen6587 Creating openings is my favorite part as well
I think you just barely miss the mark with the critique of Joseph Anderson. The point about needing speed runner strats and having to exploit a boss's moveset. He's objectively wrong but his "experience" was sort of right.
Let me explain. Elden Ring has a visual language problem. It often fails to communicate with the player. When a boss raises its sword its communicating to the player that an attack is about to happen. When Malenia rises into the air and descends in a flurry what is being communicated to me as the player? And this is why people would bash their heads against her for so long. Look at people's gameplay. Some people beat Malenia never having learned how to properly dodge it. There is an imbalance between the amount of information communicated and how much the player needs to intuit. And there's a lot of attacks like this. It wouldn't be such a problem but some of these principles or strategies the player needs to learn are often used once and then never again. Hell most ER bosses are just DS3 bosses. So its very easy for the player to learn nothing.
Its pretty telling how many people hate ER on first playthrough and then learn to love it their second run. Key word there LEARN. Even Loopine who debunked Joseph Anderson admitted this was his experience. And look how the community's opinion as a whole shifted over time. There were a lot more haters early after its release but over time people came around
I think a great example is Rykard's earthquake attack. You cant jump it, you cant dodge it, the correct strategy is to run to the side and jump at the last moment. And the game expects the player to figure that out?
Another is the relationship between healing and input (animation) reading. This is communicated soooo poorly some people still dont understand it and just heal through hits. And worse still a lot of bosses are not designed around this. The idea is that you are supposed to heal when they're mid combo or heal when you're behind them because they're effectively blind. But I only know that because of a Zullie the witch video. And as I mentioned earlier most bosses play like DS3 bosses. Its hard to learn something that isnt being taught. It also leaves you somewhat at the whim of the boss and when they decide to do an attack that is ideal for healing. Which does create an interesting dynamic but I often found tedious trying to parse out which attacks and when to heal. Then you have Rellana who throws this all out the window for some reason and has combo branches that she can change mid combo and do here blue sword slice.
Then there's jumping. Myself and a lot of people did a whole playthrough not jumping attacks because visually they dont seem jumpable... so why would I try? 😂 Again Zullie for the win. Her video is the only reason I knew the jump had s in the first place. And this was so consistent on release among players I think it almost warranted a pop-up explaining it in the tutorial.
Poor communication often comes in the form of positional attacks. Some are done well but others like Rellana's uppercut not so much. It is very difficult to differentiate this attack from any other attack from neutral. I beat her my first playthrough never learning this. There are good positional attacks like gap closers and tail swipes from behind. But fhen there's something like Godskin Nobles belly attack. Its nigh unreactable and it seems like the intended strategy is to just never stand in front of him and strafe constantly? Similarly with the Death Bird's shriek. What is the lesson there? More than being an interesting way to play it is annoying and people consistently seem to not learn a proper response. Again they're not being given enough information. Actually its the same think Joe Anderson complained about Pontiff Sulyvhan and his blue sword poke.
>Even Loopine who debunked Joseph Anderson admitted this was his experience.
No, he never said that. That was Feeble King's incorrect interpretation of what he said: That he at first didn't know how to beat the bosses. Not that he wasn't having fun, because he was.
I'm the same, I've always had fun with the game but ER became so much easier when I learned to be aggressive.
@@JohnDoe-sq5nv I didnt even know Feeble made a video on Loopine 😂. So no I didnt get it from him. Maybe if I say it more gently. He said something to the effect of he learned to appreciate it more on his 2nd playthrough
It's the problem of "difficulty"; have become known for it, they have to keep pushing it, making enemies less intuitive, give fewer tells, have more moves, give you more ways to avoid damage but make few of them work at any given time, etc. That core audience that just obsesses over being good at FromSoft games keeps demanding more and shouting down anyone who says they'd prefer something else. Or even just more of the same; keep the great variety of enemies and moves, just don't work so hard to make them annoying to fight just to please the tryhards. People still like Demon Souls and Dark Souls 1, so they don't have to keep cranking it up (if they want to do that, add a higher difficulty option for those people). It's sort of amazing how some really good players actually had an easier time not even really paying that much attention to the enemies and instead just being aggressive and trying to get a feel for the "rhythm" of the fight instead, because the visual clutter and tricky tells are so hard to deal with.
I beat elden ring and the dlc this year. My character ended on ng+6.
After learning how to poise break margitt (30hrs in or do, I beat a lot of caelid b4 coming back somehow) I didn't hit anymore roadblocks except the gargoyle fights.
I think this game is pretty easy to learn, it's simply just the timing. I kno most of you don't use mimic or summons...
But I always used them and my 1st 200hrs of elden ring was pure euphoria or buildcrafting and overcoming bosses.
I think a lot of ppl had to learn to love ER because they'd played it with souls standards. If ppl would've used summons and more varied builds, then maybe Joe wouldn't have given loopine they alley oop of the century for a critic.
That was the difficulty in other souls games as well, I remember playing ds3 and I passed half of the game with fat rolling and I didn't upgrade my weapon up until the abyss watchers(I was saving titinite shards because I was afraid that I will want to switch to another weapon), after watching some guides the game became easier
That's why I agree with feeble's point about those games aren't actually being hard, they just have a lot of unique mechanics and the games don't really communicate anything to the player, so it's frustrating at first but once you learn it becomes much easier and fun
I can see were you are coming from with the shadow tree fragments, but my motivation to do dungeons was because they were fun. If I felt like I had to go to every dungeon bc they all had rewards I need then it would get tidios. I do agree that some of the bosses lack depth in positioning.
one thing i will say is you make a good point about bosses not having a posture bar. considering that one of the most optimal/efficient methods of fighting bosses in this game is simply shutting their movespam down with stance breaks, there should be more visual indicators for it. like if they are close to getting stance broken a big anime sweat drop appears on their head and increases in size until they are ready for the riposte
What infuriates me about some of FromSoftware's design decisions is not that the camera sucks, for example. It's that the camera sucks ON PURPOSE.
What? How so?
@@anonymousperson8903 Because they are _aware_ it sucks, that's why they kinda fixed it in Sekiro, by zooming out in large bosses for example. Watch the Monster Hunter previews for another: they outline your character when your camera is behind an enemy. Fromsoft is too proud, so they sacrifice fairness in favor of difficulty. They *refuse* to change. But i want to fight the boss, not the camera.
@@fernandofaria2872 I think it's more they want you to experience the spectacle of the fight, that's why they don't zoom the camera out. And frankly, the camera isn't even an issue if you don't lock on in most cases...and they expect you to be able to do this at this point.
I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they would make something like the camera bad to add difficulty. That is simply not their design philosophy.
@@anonymousperson8903 It's the other way around: they don't actively make the camera bad, they simply don't invest time in programming a better one because they believe it's a non issue. You are correct about the spectacle: they do it this way to make the boss more intimidating, but that comes with downsides that they refuse to fix. Actually, you know what? They *DID* fix something camera related on the last boss: they improved the visibility of the light effects on the latest patch. I guess it's a start, and proves my point: not being able to see should not be a part of the challenge.
You are also correct to say that the camera is not exactly gettin in the way of your victory, the same way a mosquito is simply an annoyance, instead of an actual threat. And thats *precisely* what infuriates me. Mosquitoes are not fun to fight 😒
@@anonymousperson8903bruh you can’t zoom out when not locked on either so now you’re just turning your camera around to focus on an enemy that jumps around that btw is still attacking while your fiddling with the equipment. Seriously just zoom the camera out and let us take in the spectacle of how big the boss and the arena are. I don’t understand if it’s a technical limitation or something cause I just don’t see the downside. It’s either zoom the camera out or slow down combat so we got time to adjust the camera a needed. I love the game though but the camera is an issue that Sekiro fixed so I don’t know why it’s a problem here
I can understand your critque about the base game but the dlc is an extension of the base game so expecting gameplay mechanics that you didn't like to change is pretty optimistic
Just to help balance out the comments section, I'll add that I pretty much agree. I don't need to write a paragraph explaining why, but the fact is I enjoyed SoTE significantly less than the main game and nobody's comments or reasoning is going to change that.
It's really sad, i think you may have fromsoft fatigue, i really enjoyed the bosses, the map was way too big and started to feel empty and meaningless halfway trough, i accepted that is an intrinsic flaw of open worlds
For me the reward is fighting the boss, i dont need a skibidi fragment or a rare weapon, i enjoy the boss fight itself and the challenge that comes with it
Bingo!
based souls enjoyer
I hate the bosses in this game, and ive played every souls game, the bosses were just ass
@@johnguy7178 Get better honestly, they’re a 100% fair bosses, and the most fun & frantic.
@@johnguy7178 sounds like you suck at it lol
I feel like these games have such a passionate fanbase because they felt the magic you did in DS1 but in Elden Ring. I felt the same euphoric feeling playing the DLC as the base game. Sorry if some of my comments were so aggressive. I do think this DLC could’ve been a game where From fleshed out and added some areas
Elden ring just doesn't have that magic though. Nothing can compare to meeting gwynivere for the first time
Maybe some people like the older players just have their own taste, I only started these games with the Demons Souls remake and then played all of them. My first playthrough of Elden Ring was the most magical I felt out of them all
@@-jobrocodwawz-6226I started with DS3 and DS1 was my favourite game in the entire series. I refused to play ER for a year or two since I preferred the old games at first, but since I’ve given it a real chance and played through the game pre-DLC I have to say Elden Ring is far and beyond better than Dark Souls. There are things that I can say I like about DS1, but no other game they’ve created come close to the exploration, combat depth, enemy variety, weapon variety, and extrinsic rewards. There are bits and pieces you could argue are better in Dark Souls sure, but the only reason I can see people liking it more for is the nostalgia.
you only feel that way because you experienced a fractured version of that magic. If you played DS1 or DeS and were being objective and considering context you would understand why it's a far more impressive achievement than ER
@@arisumego my experience proves your silly little nitpick wrong so I apologize
A major problem i've had with the souls community is their unwillingness to criticize their own games
Yes I've played every souls game fromsoft has released but we seriouslly gotta stop treating Miyazaki like' he's god and whatever he does is objectively the best thing out there with 0 flaws.
I think its just the case of the game being generally good, like these days sadly triple a games kinda suck, most long time studios release dogshit, so getting a good game from a long time studio makes me, personally, not wanna criticize fromsoft and hype them up more, but i do agree like all games all souls games have problems
I think there's something no one has ever touched on and that is the open world factor. I just don't think it works long-term with Souls games. Souls games work best as intentionally crafted mazes of levels weaved together with the only respite being the hub world and the bonfires you find. I feel like the open world gets rid of the fear factor of heading into a dungeon, it makes crafting a build and maxing out a new character a nightmare which kills replayability and by extension multiplayer, results in less core, crafted content because more is spent on the open world and results in a less condensed experience than a normal Souls game.
Hence why I loved this dlc. It is open world but it largely feels like an open air dark souls 1 map. Especially the eastern side of the map
44:50 St Trina’s quest line was a bit silly with the multiple deaths part of it lol.
it was really cool discovering it for the first time though, i was fooling around with my friends then i thought about telling thiollier of st trina cause hes obsessed with her or whatever
It makes perfect sense. You learn that you need a _lot_ of nectar to hear St. Trina, but you also learn that you will never wake up again if you drink it even once. So, realizing that you can come back to life when you die, you figure out that you can overcome this contradiction by dying to it multiple times.
bro what you doing here 🤣
the depth that people talking about with these games comes in the form of jumping and ashes of war that you can dodge attacks with, there is so much more variety in how you fight bosses because of that, aside from radahn who is just dodge left simulator. the problem is that you guys just dont like roll dodge bosses anymore thats it, Elden ring has the mechanics that allow for new ways to dodge attacks. if you dont like it that sucks i guess
This. They want a simpler game like Dark Souls, but they don't wanna admit it. I love the challenge of ER bosses because once you figure them out its super fun. I didnt have a lot of fun with Dark Soul 3 when i first played it until i figured out dodge rolling.
@@NewSorpigal1 because it isn't dark souls anymore. And they are totally fair. You can dodge/block/counter every attack in numerous ways. I'm not a masochist either. The game isn't that hard to figure out. Some bosses frustrate me but just like dark souls it's my fault every time. Well, except for when my controller decides to not register a button press. That is annoying and can piss me off. I just think it's funny that you and people like you act like dark souls wasn't a struggle back in the day when people weren't use to that type of gameplay. Now that it's evolved, people who were use to dark souls can't seem to grasp the concept of jumping over horizontal swipes and position based attacks.
@@NewSorpigal1 bosses never had stamina to begin with. They were just slower. Manus is more bullshit than any boss from Elden Ring. If anyone is breaking the rules of the game it's that dude. You're playing Elden Ring with a Dark Souls mindset. Not every attack combo ends with a big opening to punish. Instead there are combos with openings in the middle of them where you can crouch poke or maybe even jump attack. Use a certain ash of war even. Lions claw is great for punishing horizontal attacks. It's a much more active and aggressive game. If you're playing passively like it's Dark Souls then ya, you're probably gonna struggle because you're too scared of the boss to get in there and counter their moves with your own moves. We really need more videos going in depth on the many combat options Elden Ring provides because it seems like most of the haters just don't get the game. They're hung up on the past even though they don't wanna admit it. You don't gotta like the game. I just think it's dumb that we can't even enjoy it without people calling it "bad design". Bad for you maybe, but it's such a subjective statement. Like Sekiro is "bad" if all I ever do is try to dodge attacks and never Parry or use prosthetics. Any game is bad if I don't actually engage with the mechanics.
@@NewSorpigal1 I couldn't care less about what feeble king thinks of me. I can counter every point he makes and he would still be unhappy with the gameplay. Like just don't play Elden ring. He already didn't like the base game. Idk why he thought the dlc would change the rules of the game. I'm gonna keep clowning on people who say it's unfair. My recent playthrough has opened my eyes to even more flaws in feeble king's critiques. If anyone is being disingenuous, like you suggested I was, it's him. My favorite critique is "not every reward from a boss is usable with every build therefore they're bad rewards" 😂 like bro it's an RPG. Of course you can't use EVERYTHING.
Don't give up hope though. Fromsoft will probably make another linear metroidvania dungeon crawler like dark souls again.
@@NewSorpigal1I would argue it’s you guys that can’t see the forest for but trees. You think every game has to resemble Dark Souls 1 in every way to be good. You’re blinded by romanticism of the past. Dark Souls 1 is the same game where you could be cursed while fighting Seath and then have to go through the Duke’s Archives with half of your health. It’s the same game that contains an unfinished location with arguably the single worst boss From has ever created, and also littered with reskinned enemies. The game had its flaws and occasional moments that were arguably unfairer than anything in Elden Ring. It’s just that people romanticize the past and don’t like change. 5 years from now, people will likely be saying the same thing about whatever new game FS is developing.
And I say this all as someone who absolutely adores DS1 as it was my very first Souls game.
I feel like you shouldn’t really be exploring PURELY to improve your build and get stronger. That is a positive side effect of exploring not the main motive. Exploring in this game makes a lot more sense if you are doing it with the mindset of “completing” the game which is what people should do anyways. ALSO your approach to bosses is just not very optimal for souls bosses. You aren’t and shouldn’t go into the boss with “oh yeah I’m gonna beat him in like 2 attempts” you have to learn attack patterns just like in Sekiro. If you went into Sekiro trying to beat bosses first try then you will fail. If you did have that mindset it means that it just luckily worked out for you and Elden ring is way more punishing with mistakes than Sekiro.
With that all being said I think a lot of your critiques are very valid. You don’t have to enjoy the game but I was a little confused when you criticized Elden ring for some things but not remaining consistent with the other titles you criticized. I would like to hear your thoughts regarding this matter and if I got your arguments wrong and that there’s more depth into why.
Completely agree with you. Most people don’t explore or fight bosses because they expect a reward at the end of it. They just want to fight a giant dragon or a half- centipede half-scorpion lady. The bosses themselves ARE the reward for exploring. That is why I play these games, to fight cool creatures and learn their movesets to perfection. The remembrance they drop is just a cherry on top for me.
hi!! as a viewer who actually enjoys your videos, i prefer when you come across aggressive! much more genuine and interesting to listen to. thanks!!
it’s funny hearing him frustrated too😭
I don't think AGGRESSION is necessarily what makes him come off as genuine. btw the dog drawing in your pfp is adorable
@@ennayanne yeah it’s not the aggression, i just watch his videos bc i like intentional game design, and hate the trend of modern empty open world games that waste ur time, so i feel less crazy watching his videos lol
@@verygoodfreelancer same
One of my big ER DLC issues are with the Furnace Golems. I hate them. They are the worst.
Finally learing how to defeat them and doing so was one of the highlights of the DLC for me.
Learning that fire of all things was the weakness to a fire headed enemy was honestly absurd
@@Avalan666…..interesting..
@@Avalan666 The thing about furnace golems is they take forever to kill while being mechanically simple. I wish you only had to knock them over once instead of twice.
They’re so boring lol
bad take
wow, you owned him
@@BrovarSpirytusno other dlc will ever provide this much content. One of the greatest DLCs ever. Messmer Midra Renalla and even Radahn post nerf all all arguably top 10 bosses in the game. So many new weapons spells and ashes of war. New elements and styles of play. And the greatest Dragon boss in any souls game with Bayle the Dread. Messmer’s story and Miquella’s story have amazing story telling. And the npc questline was sad defeating all the knights. Catacombs have been more interesting than ever. The lack of reward variety can be justified with Covid interruption and by the fact that characters can be so OP with dlc rewards.
It's never your fault is it? It's always the community being toxic and misunderstanding your perfectly delivered thoughts (lol), or it's the game 'not teaching you well enough.'
Take some responsibility.
Yeah, as a guy who played most of the game once and didn't even finish it before the DLC because I didn't like the main game that much, I don't understand how people hate the dlc so much. It's not overly difficult, the rewards aren't that horrible etc. It took me like 10-20 attempts against most remembrances with a +10/+25 weapon with whatever I was using at that point starting the dlc at lvl 139 and basically all of them were fun. No buffs or no summons were needed either.
Ah yes, i wish the combat is not evolving and just stayed like DS1. Damn, some people just cant move on huh.
Move on? It's a Fromsoftware game, people are paying for a specific experience. And if the next game from that studio isn't the experience people wanted, then it's like a betrayal of consumer trust. They lose brand loyalty that way.
I wish the combat did not degraded and kept going from DS2.
@alifpatria2135
It hasn't evolved. There was more variety of encounter design originally.
Mechanically, the fights are very simple in SOTE, the difficulty comes from the hidden meta difficulty, because it's easier to hide the challenge from the player, than just be honest about the telegraphs, tracking, spacing and dodge windows, while creating a variety of fresher mechanics, and providing the player with evolved evasive moves to compensate...instead of leaning on the easy to program, childish adhd philosophy of practice dodging or cheese builds.
You don't grasp that the game has become more flashy, yet also more stupid and lazy.
Fromsoft just appealled heavily to the loud minority of adhd hyper aggressive sociopaths who pad out the fan base and gaslight all criticism..., with cheap mechanics, as opposed to creating an intelligent and varied challenge with actual evolutions in gameplay depth.
@@MarkerMurker i get it but i heard lots of complaints saying ppl cant just big bonk their way through every single boss fight, since lots of them are more aggressive etc and they feel the need to change build just cuz their playstyle that they genuinely enjoy is not "viable". And the experience is being able to pull through, to finally overcome hardship and all that good stuff aint it? I just feel like a lot of the criticisms levelled against the game arent objective flaws of the game, but just people cant stand their ego getting bumped.
@@MarkerMurker? So how do they get away with creating popular games sekiro, armored core and bloodborne if people just want souls 1? The point is that many fans wish that ds1 had been evolved further in depth, when instead the souls games (specifically) just became more obtuse, and shallower.
Elden ring is the culmination of fromsofts lazy design crutches, only spread out like a bland buffet....if i go from one end of the map to the other and find the same enemies, rewards and therefore false depth, it's the failure of a dev in everyone's eyes who have common sense. Unfortunately, many don't have common sense, just rose tinted spectacles and a great capacity for self delusion.
"Oh somehow my fun is wrong" is the usual petulant response...well, they would be having many times more fun if they stopped actively holding the games evolution back by encouraging fromsoft to get away with their cheap tricks.
He admits he's not perfect in the first 30 seconds of the video, it's never been more over...
LOL
I’ve never seen a dumber comment in my life
Look feeble, if Elden rings getting disappointing, there’s this little indie gem named Dark Souls 2 that you should try
Hell no
Dark soul 2 is trial and error
Of course! The answer has been here the entire time!
As a dark souls 2 enjoyer who's EXTREMELY critical of this DLC, I agree
"just run away[to the entire other side of the room] every time you hit her to avoid water fowl" is not the defense you think it is
@@generights Only on reaction in my experience (I almost exclusively have medium roll)
I think it is. Literally just run away from her and dodge/jump when she hits the ground, you'll at max only take a little chip if you don't time it or the rest of the attack perfectly. All of her other attacks are easily dodgable
"every time you hit her" my guy you do know that the Waterfowl is a triggered event after a certain amount of health right? From what you are saying I assume you struggled with her (as we all did) and yet you didn't catch onto the fact that the chances of her doing waterfowl back to back are extremely low unless you are doing a DISGUSTING amount of damage to her to trigger back to back waterfowl..
For most of us we fight her normal and pay attention to her health, when she gets below a certain amount is when we get careful and then after she does it and you managed to dodge it you go back to the back and forth dance, rinse and repeat until dead.
The Waterfowl is a move designed to keep you on your toes at specific moments in the fight.
All of this to say... Yes... Yes it is the defense we KNOW it is, and if that isn't enough for you then let go of your pride and just use Frost Pots if you think the move is SO unfair, just remove the move entirely from the game, the option IS there, no one is forcing you to learn tk dodge it if you don't think it's fair. Just don't tell others that we don't know what we talking about just because we either learned how to dodge it by overcoming the odds or learned to use the games mechanics to bring the fight down to our level but you refused to do either whether due to stubbornness, pride or simply bitterness.
Sorry you've had that experience with the community bud. I love your channel even tho I am a certified FS Glaser; I think your opinions are always very well articulated and enjoyable to listen to
I'm fine with the disagreement. What I dislike are the strawman arguments and attempts to 'tear down' my opinion as bad faith or inherently wrong. This is somewhat my fault for not holding back how upset I was in my original critique, but it's also just how the community is. They feel the need to constantly nitpick people who disagree so that they can defend the game they love.
As long as the negative comments don't bait me into fighting every boss with 3 or 4 different builds to explain in more depth my issues with the build variety, I think I'm going to just try to move away from Fromsoft criticism. I've basically said everything I feel like I need to say, and I don't enjoy making videos where I have to predict a thousand counter arguments and strawman arguments in the comment section.
@@feebleking21 Agree mate - as you say people can just disagree and move on. We all want different things, we all experience it in different ways.
No game should be immune from feedback, and you shouldnt be attacked for offering up constructive criticism. Which is more or less the point Joe ended his video on as well, people acting like criticism is a personal attack rather than a part of a healthy environment.
@@SmoughTownI’m sorry.. why are critics immune to criticism?
@GredGlinstone They weren't implying that anyone is immune to criticism.
All they're suggesting is to criticize the creator without nitpicking or blowing their opinions out of proportion.
@@cluelesslink16 Nitpicking is criticism, my dude.
We need to look at the positive side. Miyazaki himself said he didn't get the perfect RPG with Elden Ring. So let's just be excited about what will come in the future👀
He's just going to make the same game again. Like he's been doing since demons souls.
Because the player expression is too simple because it uses ds3's combat engine. If they went back to slower and more decisive actions like in ds2, but kept enemy variety of Elden Ring (maybe make their moves slower though) they'd have the best rpg.
Also maybe some Dragons Dogma 2 style traveling tedium to make journeying more engaging.
Lost Art of Video Game Critique
I much preferred the base game, especially the art direction. One thing the DLC does well is the terrain, it looks much more believable and realistic than in the base game. Better looking rocks, erosions, roads, it makes a big difference. I wish Fromsoftware would update the base game's terrain in a similar way but that's wishful thinking. Otherwise, the DLC is really just artificial difficulty for the sake of it, and whole pointless and empty regions that defeat the purpose of exploring. It's also insanely unrewarding. I hope you all like cookbooks.
You see you are critiquing a game where the "fans" just go on a band wagon of "skill issue" "git gud" where no criticism is valid because you died.
1:43 I heavily disagree for one reason: Mandatory exploration.
Instead of going to dungeons because you like the encounters or want to naturally explore the world, you're forced to go to every dungeon to stand a chance against bosses. It's the same problem I had with Sekiro's health system, but it would be far worse in this case because it's whole dungeons instead of minibosses.
That's a lie. I explore maybe 2 or 3 dungeons in SOTE, one just so i can get to Midra. Otherwise you don't need to explore the dungeons to be powerful enough to fight the bosses.
@@valkeitos That's exactly the point. When I was talking about being forced about going to every dungeon, I meant in a hypothetical scenario where there was a scadutree fragment behind almost every dungeon, resulting in the game being scaled around this.
Mmmm.... It's almost as if maybe, just MAYBE, the dlc did NOT have to be an open world and a limgrave size dlc would've been better... Mmmmm...
This was 100% the case with the base game, mountaintops was such an increase in difficulty compared to Leyndell you HAD to go and explore the rest of the game to level up. I like it with SOTE though because I appreciate not having to fight a single boss at all until I want to (ie once I've explored the world). Your progress is never capped (except for Enir Elim but that dungeon is the worst in the game anyway, and quite short, so nothing is missed)
@@glowerworm Enir Elim is really cool and has nothing that makes it awful
Dang you used the example of the spirit orbs (Heart pieces) Being put around the open world as a bad idea in botw when that is exactly what most people are asking nintendo to do by making it like the older zeldas.
Meh. I liked this DLC, as with the base game. But I think it's more that a lot of people hold these games up as the best games ever made, and like... They're not, they never have been. Dark Souls had plenty of flaws and a lot of them have carried over throughout the entire series, all the way into Elden Ring. Personally Elden Ring was the first time I really loved one of these games, because it had much more to offer than the others. No game is perfect, it's just a question of whether the parts you enjoy outweigh the flaws.
What are the best games ever made?
No game is the best game ever made by this logic. Not a single game is flawless.
@@TotalitarianDemocratocarina of time, metal gear solid 3, and the Witcher 3
@@zaynthemane the way you’re misreading their comment implies that these games should be considered the best of all time. No game is flawless, AND, unrelated, none of the souls games should be considered any of the best games of all time (Sekiro should imo)
@@isaiahwebb3743 I’m just saying I disagree with the logic that a game having flaws makes them exempt from being considered one of the best games of all time. I don’t believe any game I’ve played in my life is flawless.
A half open world experience would been better it should been shorter but full of peak and better stuff we needed Godwyn
Godwyn is dead get over it
As someone who is NOT a massive FromSoft fan, but who has watched the fanbase develop since Dark Souls, I do find it interesting how they have changed. Yes, Git Gud has been a meme answer since then, but there was also a backlash from the fans AGAINST the idea that difficulty was the overriding motive. They would get mad about that accusation, they'd say "Hey, this game has some great lore, level design, enemy design, build variety, atmosphere, and so on! Stop acting like it's Super Meat Boy or something where punishing difficulty is the only draw! More games should learn from this!" But overtime, probably as an unintentional result of the RUclips/streaming community showing their challenge runs and learning how to beat every boss with turkey slaps, the fanbase has largely been subsumed by exactly those people. It's all about the meta, the builds, the challenges, the desire to push the difficulty to the limit, all with bombastic action setpieces. They actively mock the obscure lore and have little appreciation for any other details of the design. And of course, yes, every complaint, no matter what it's about, will be met with "You only say that because you're bad at it," even to streamers who have shown proof of them owning Radahn without any cheese, as if it is physically impossible to overcome a challenge and still not like some aspects of it, or to appreciate any other dimension of Soulsborne titles. I personally laugh at certain elements that FromSoft has always used, like rolling through solid matter being the main battle strategy, instead of actually AVOIDING attacks or blocking them, which are, in many cases, viewed as noob traps--look at the idiot making intuitive choices instead of ramming his face into the attack! I wish FromSoft had made their games more intuitive and fun, instead of more obscure and punishing. We'll see if the reception to this DLC, which was far less glowing than the base game, makes FromSoft consider whether they have pushed that particular element to it's limit, and either innovate or just focus more on the other elements like dungeon design and such again.
Great insight. I'm inclined to agree that much of the "fans" and From themselves seem to have forgotten all the stuff that used to set From apart
I felt like this too , lmao, and still think it looks absolutely silly when I see someone stay in THAT ONE SPOT where Bayle's breath misses 'em as it forks out, even tho' it looks like it hit them. Like... why would ANYONE intuitively do that? And the answer is, they wouldn't - it's just that through enough trial & error, you'll eventually figure out where's safe to stay & where not , even in the wildest, dumbest, most non-sensical places.
At some point it becomes a comedic to me, lol.
Git Gud originally was a term of encouragement but over time it's metastasised into outright derision as From's games became increasingly popular unfortunately.
@@animeguitarguy I don't think From has forgotten, just some of the fanbase. Elden ring still has a lot of good interesting lore, environmental storytelling, level design, good music, storytelling in that music (Did you know Midra's theme has a motif of the song the frenzied merchants play?) Etc. From still has more intricacy in the design than purely boss fights, it's just a lot of the community who ignore that.
@@tommyferret4121 yea people only think their games are about boss fights
I like to view fragments, not like the main reward for exploration. More like motivation to search for ruins and camps. And when you explore them you will find talismans, weapons and armor to improve your build/ create new one.
I think the enemy density should increase (especially in the open world) once you reach NG+.
Beautiful it may be, but empty it is.
Responding to 6:11 "I am not saying Fromsoft games should have Devil May Cry combo lists. These are different types of games with different goals."
Now, for every game *but* Elden Ring and maybe Sekiro, I will agree wholeheartedly. But, as you say at the end, we've gone full theme-park. The bosses and many basic enemies are more action-packed than ever before, and the player is given a plethora of spectacular moves which are sadly mostly useless against anything they cannot poise-break. While I would agree that going DMC would be losing the last of the heart of the Souls series, at this point how much remains to be lost by the change? Having the movesets and gameplay to match the enemies could compliment their ridiculous combos by allowing the player to more frequently perform their own.
I've thought while playing DMC 5 that I might enjoy Elden Ring bosses a lot more if I had Dante's anime-like abilities. Souls games have gone so far in the direction of action combat that it's not like they'd be losing much if they went all out.
Real
@@feebleking21 you do have that tho. just look at the messmer's spear
@@travisbickle3835 You have some DMC ability, but none of the convenience. Just try using Messmer's Spear's Ash of War against Messmer and see how many situations it *doesn't* work.
Elden Ring end game and DLC make me sad because its clear that Fromsoft games are no longer made for people like me, I dont enjoy bashing my head against a boss until i learn all the delayed unnaturally timed attacks, I dont enjoy bizarre boss mechanic gimmicks (special mention to Malenia hyper armor, just frustrating and could have been done better), I also dont enjoy the game expecting me to either use a bunch of OP stuff to overcome a boss or use exploits to "counter" special moves (again, Malenia xd) I prefer just 'legacy dungeons' being strung together, the open world in base Elden Ring was fun before the capital on the first playthrough, after the capital its ass, and subsequent playthroughs is just check list simulator which seems to be a big issue with the DLC too
it sucks to feel that way but oh well, what can you do, definitely wont be blind buying their next game without looking into it and how similar it is to their current design philosophy
I agree. Bayle was my fav, but I always enjoyed more consistent fights.
Dragoslayer armor, list king, twin princes, especially pontiff.
ER fights rarely felt like, fights. They were just combat tests.
Do you kno this? Did you remember this timing? Betcha won't jump!
Everything has answers but I swear it's grimy there's no consistent indicators for attack types.
I always get hit by godfrey's stomps in phase 2. Idk why hitting the ground with his are and foot are different.
Or why the attack you can jump over is the one that cracks the ground instead of a low Shockwave.
The truth is that these bosses arent actually mechanicly more difficult than DS3 bosses, they just have an extra fluff of 15-30 extra deaths because they have new overly elaborate or fast attacks that you can only avoid after seeing them at least once.
@@KNGDDDE there are actually these things you can use that I found helped me a lot to read boss attacks without an indicator. I used my eyes to look at what the boss was doing and the bosses indicated what move they would do with their telegraphs. This is something that I use in every souls game, especially DS3 since the combat is similar to Elden Ring minus the advantage of being able to jump boss attacks.
@@abyssoull wat does that have to do with my comment?
@@KNGDDDE in the combat tests you can read the boss like I mentioned in order to dodge the attacks given the movement abilities granted to you. This includes rolling, back stepping, running, jumping, or running jumps. There are also ashes of war that can further improve movement abilities like bloodhound step or dash. These combat tests are not significantly different from those in DS3 other than extra movement being afforded to you and extensions to the boss. By both watching the boss and learning how to successfully dodge their attacks you can overcome the challenge presented to you by the game. You’ll find most of the time there are several ways to dodge/punish a majority of attacks as well, giving players additional combat freedom and variety with the 300+ weapons and builds to choose from. If you interact with the game like you’re playing Elden Ring and not DS3, you might find yourself getting roll-caught a lot less.
I think my biggest problem is now the game is simply too big. It feels like even if you know what you’re doing, completing a single run imo just takes too long (particularly in an all remembrances run)
I agree that it takes a decent amount of time, but I’ve gotten 3-4 DLC playthroughs done already while playing other competitive games and working full-time. That’s including the base game up to Mohg and Radahn as well. Once you know what you’re looking for on each run it becomes a pretty linear game, and that’s with me using unique builds for each playthrough.
"All I get for the kill is two remembrance weapons."
I mean, yeah. What do you want Fromsoft to peel you a fuckin grape too? Like, wtf else do you want? You also get their armor!
Scadurtree fragments dawg. Progression items.
@@echo1180 Go look for them like you did already with your golden seeds and sacred tears in the base game you lazy bum. Or go play Sekiro or Armored Core cause those games don't need Exploration.
All the boss weapons are trash in the DLC. Maybe 2 are good but mostly buns
@@mikeyswift2010 One of the big rewards in the base game for defeating remembrance bosses is a bunch of level ups. Mohg himself gives like 400,000 runes, which is quite a few level ups for players, especially considering how early you could potentially fight him, which is a good reward because it means that even if you aren't able to use the weapon or spell the boss gives you, you still get a reward in the form of leveling up a ton. The bosses in the dlc give you far less runes, and don't give shadow tree fragments, which is kind of like the dlcs own way of leveling up, meaning for a lot of builds, there isn't even a reason to fight some remembrance bosses. Rellana doesn't give you a lot of runes or any fragments, and you have the option to skip her, so if I'm not making a build that could use the weapon or spell she gives me, I have no real reason to fight her, unless I just really like the boss. I don't mind Rellana, but not everyone will like her and you get my point here
@@cjzizzari2405most of them are viable or are getting buffed. Some like rominas halberd are shit, but to say all of them are bad is just wrong.
They can all be very good, you just have to build around it.
In regards to the St. Trina thing, I don’t think people were upset because the questline was some fantastic and well constructed side quest, I think it’s more that it felt disingenuous to cite that specific example as one where there was nothing to find but a cookbook. I do agree that the St Trina reveal was underwhelming, but it still is definitely additional, somewhat significant content that is a “reward” for beating putrescent knight. I still do agree that exploration had underwhelming extrinsic rewards for my build, all I really added was a new armor set and 1-2 talismans.
My bigger problem were the toxic comments and claims that I am disingenuous and misleading for leaving out evidence that supports my central argument. Maybe I should've mentioned Trina, but some comments blew this nitpick out of proportion.
That’s totally valid! I think claiming that you were deliberately being misleading is pretty goofy, especially cuz like you said, it’s not like the st Trina quest was an amazing reward either. Idk was just trying make the counter argument a bit more cohesive
@@joeymayer7681 yeah the videos can always be better.
@@feebleking21you literally were though.
The only thing I thought was disappointing was the southern part of the map (not including the abyssal woods and jagged peak), especially the finger ruins, like what was all that empty space doing there, but other than that this dlc was peak, 10/10, definitely should be a GOTY nomination
I've only played DS1 so far. Haven't played Elden Ring or its expansion. I've met your channel with the Zelda TotK critique.
Despite that, I'm in awe of your channel and sincerity. I can feel your true and honest passion about what you like and I wish more reviewers were like you, just a little less repetitive but I get that this video was meant to get your point across. What you said about DS1 truly touched me, and the fatigue from the franchise trying to be more appealing to the masses is something I really connected with. Keep up the good work man, you're a legend in the making.
Comparing hack and Slash combat to souls borne combat you know that those are completely different games you could have alteast compared it to a similar combat style game instead of taking a completely different game and comparing them
Shadowtree blessings suck as a reward because it doesn’t actually affect your build.
You lose it when you go to the base game, Newgame+ co-op, invasions, or Arena, so *it isn’t actually part of your build.*
They don’t feel good to collect because it’s basically artificially lowering the difficulty of the DLC itself, not actually reinforcing your build. There is no pleasure in one shotting shadow villagers in grave site plain when you know full well the damage you are doing doesn’t carry over anywhere else
dude no shit it wont transfer to the base game why tf would they, also your character keeps the shadow blessing level every time u start a new game, so you just need to get the shadow blessing to lv 20 once. which you can do over multiple playthroughs if you feel like it. you can also just, not fucking get them if you hate them that badly since "they dont affect your build"
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you do keep blessing level in ng+. Like, it's attached to your character, if that makes sense.
@@knivy6160 I'm pretty sure you don't, and even if you do, it wouldn't even matter when it comes to the extra NG+ cycle when it comes to beating Consort Radahn.
OP is also aluding to it basically just being the memory and prayer bead system in Sekiro. very boring damage and reduction increases across the board, somehow trumps the ability to alter your playstyle? That's crazy.
People who like Sekiro probably also ignored 99% of the different combat arts in that game and just got by with deflecting and Ichimonji double. This is a roll-playing game, not a watered down Ninja Gaiden.
@@Garl_Vinland you do keep it, having gone into a new cycle on a few characters after beating the dlc on them. They still matter for that last bit of the DLC. The fragment system is pretty hamfisted, though, and I felt it could have been done more thoughtfully.
I think if they’d reduced the damage/defense boost from Scadutree Blessings, kept the boost active in base game, and made you choose between damage or defense each time you use one, they would have felt much better.
I don’t believe every game should be for everyone; this DLC is my favorite content in my favorite game. And I’m struggling to put into words why my experience playing this DLC is the most enjoyable experience I’ve had playing a video game in a very long time. I would say this is without any doubt the most beautiful game I’ve ever played. The experience of playing this game was unlike any other. And I’m really sorry you couldn’t experience it the way I did. I don’t think your takes are invalid or wrong it’s just sad to see you didn’t enjoy it the way I did it. I will say however, I think you are absolutely wrong when it comes to to the bosses not being sufficiently different from previous games. I would argue that this game and its dlc were from software at its peak creativity. If it’s not your style that’s fine. I even agree with some of your points in this and the last video… but I just don’t understand how you could naturally come to the conclusion that you did, “regarding the bosses” if not promoted by the backlash of the last video.
This video just reaffirms that older players (my friend) are burnt out and newer players (me) enjoy the trial and error.
No, just that this dlc does it poorly. Ds1 and ds2 are similar in terms of difficulty (both being slowed clunky).
The difference is ur not dying to ganks 70% of the time in ds1.
@@KNGDDDE I didn't die to ganks 70% of the time. So idk who you are talking about?
I enjoyed the trial and error in this more than Ds1 because it felt like I accomplished much more. Ds1 is outdated and very easy.
@tahireed the fact that you said that about a dlc that invalidates your levels is wild.
Also, the point being made was how they go about the trial and error.
I don't find much fun getting 2-3 shot for 20hrs. But since ur a newer player it'd make more sense you having more tolerance for it.
Hence why I compared ds1 and 2
@@KNGDDDE Trial and error is about getting good, not leveling up so Idk what point you think you are making.
"Getting two shot for 20 hours"
I played on NG+4, never took my vigor above 50 and I was getting 2-3 shot. Unless, you were trying to make it hard for yourself like me, you shouldn't have been getting two shot. 60 vigor with 20 fragments is easy to obtain and more than enough for the Dlc.
You are right in that I have a higher tolerance and that's the point I was originally making. I like the new "overtuned" bosses because they feel like more of an accomplishment to beat. I completely understand older players being put off by it, though.
@@tahireed trial and error is about trial and error. Getting good is about learning and practice.
Sure thru trial and error you can dodge all of margitt. But when u get gud you incorporate jump attacks, you crush his moves using stances, you hit him with two charge attacks on his mind up for guaranteed posture break.
The newer bosses don't have such skill expression, which is my issue with the dlc.
When everything deals high dmg, roll catches, when fodder enemies start having positional openings...
This is the part I lose patience for. The consistent, elevated demands from artificially inflated health and dmg.
Also I played half thus dlc on ng and restarted with my ng+5 gal. I hit radahn with scad lvl 17. I had played +50hrs at that point.
Please stop acting as if these bosses were sooo difficult. They're tough, but mainly just aggravating. Luke I said, I dont find getting 2-3 shot @ lvl 290 very fun.
It was even worse on my ng gal. The enemies were too hard to drop such little runes.
I could go on but I don't feel most ppls concept of difficulty get past dmg values. I'd rather the bosses have been much more interesting overall.
Imagine if the snake overcame mesmer and the fight became itachi vs kabuto. That'd be way cooler than "hey bud can you dodge 20 frame attacks from across the arena?
Why make things fun when they can be difficult? Ideology on display in the dlc.
If we wanna talk about getting gud fr, come back after u got nioh 2 DotN unlocked. You kno Nioh is hard because it's the only soulsluke no one talks about...
Probably because it's actually demanding in fair and unfair ways ways with a lot of depth and original mechanics. A lot more than dodge/block/parry.
Sorry for the long post I got carried away
What are your thoughts on Shaman Village? For me that was the area that proved to me that Fromsoft still had that emotional spark akin to the moments you talked about at 1:01:16
Also I must say, my perspective is so wildly different from yours, because I am mostly interested in exploration that provides me with new weapons and spells, and I found the Scadutree Fragment system unbelievably boring. I agree it would be better if more side dungeons had them but after I got to Blessing level 12 I resolved to not even upgrade my Blessing level further, and for repeat playthroughs I don't even intend to push my Blessing level to 12, even if I get the fragments to. Stat increases are completely uninteresting to me. I enjoy when the game is so hard that I need to optimize my actual build to the greatest extend possible to beat it.
Shadow of the Erdtree and Tears of the Kingdom are proof that the industry should move past open world games
Sad news is that the director for Zelda see BotW/ToTK as objectively better than previous Zelda games and designing any game similar to those is creating a worse game
why are you playing the game? just play something else
The problem isn't them being open world, it's that they are just too big. Shrinking them down 50% or so with a greater focus on unique gameplay would make all the difference.
@@Jose_Ruiz932 None of the ways TotK or BotW are better are due to the nature of the open world. Also, I don't believe they are better or at the very least I dont thinl there's a strong enough case you could make that would remove all doubt
@@justinthomas318Real, open world games should take after their title more, the openness should comes before the world.
Do you think people would chill out if guys like you and Joe were more clear about your analytical lens?
no they are rabid fanboys and daddy miyazaki can do no wrong.
@@samueldawkins yah fair I guess
That aside I so badly wish video essayists took lessons, best practices, from critical and academic writing and were clear about this stuff. You GOTTA interrogate your own reactions to art.
I think people would chill out if he wasn’t factually wrong on multiple things and refusing to interact with half the game while complaining about its lack of content. They would also chill if he didn’t title it “worst fromsoft dlc ever made.”
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf and like, trying to straddle the line between review and analytical critique is on him because it muddles the essay. But getting pissy about it in the comments isn’t good either.
we seriouslly gotta stop treating Miyazaki like' he's god and whatever he does is objectively the best thing out there with 0 flaws.
While I agree with Feeble's points as a long time souls' enjoyer
Feeble and Joe seem to be more opinionated than analytical when it comes to their essays
Exploration wasnt great, but I do think Mesmer, Bayle and Rellana stand with some of fromsoft’s best bosses. Radahn was frustrating, but post nerf I was able to hitless him after a decent amount of practice and I found it very rewarding. I think catacombs and caves were more varied and interesting in DLC compared to base game, but I do think legacy dungeons were a let down, apart from shadow keep which was excellent. Midra and Romina are both pretty solid fights too! Idk $40 is a lot, I received it free from a friend so I didnt really think of the value for the price too much. Old hunters is a tighter package, but apart from that it’s probably my fav from soft DLC.
Long time fan of From Software here. I had a lot of similar criticisms of the DLC, and I appreciate you putting a voice to them. I love FromSoft and the games they produce, but I feel like this DLC is steering the company's design philosophy in a direction that I don't like, so I appreciate the criticism. I feel like Shadow of the Erdtree is worth complaining about because I know FromSoft is very talented, and I know they can make excellent games. They are a company worth holding to a higher standard and therefore we shouldn't just accept all FromSoft games because of the company's pedigree.
Under the mayo would be proud
Being difficult used to be a marketing strategy. If you think about it, the dark souls trilogy wasn't hard apart from 3. Easy bosses could be memorable, just think of pinwheel and many others.
Going through undead burg was in itself a "boss fight", the literal boss at the end of it was just a payoff. In elden ring, the areas are just an empty section you have to run through in order to get to the real attraction: the boss at the end. People only talk about the bosses, there's no blighttown in this game, no gutter or any other well thought area designed to be a cool challenge for exploration, which sucks bc it's a game that wants you to explore so fucking bad.
You can see they really wanted you to reach the bosses and forgot about everything else. There are entire sections filled with harder versions of previously encountered enemies (no design change, just larger hp and damage output), placed there just to serve as a space in between bosses.
The bosses themselves are ridiculous. Difficulty on steroids, cheap attacks spammed, damage output on parody levels, speed and poise always on max, and the HP bar seems endless. It's like you're fighting champion gundyr but he only does the annoying charge attack, only now there's also an AOE to punish your correct dodge timing at the end.
BUT, if you read 300 pages of wiki, do what the RUclips community is telling you to do in over 60 hours of videos, you'll be able to beat everything. You just have to kill your build and reduce your character to this specific set of items people are telling you to use. Very nice.
I made a reddit post asking what should I do to fix the frame drops on my fucking 4060. I shit you not, my post was downvoted to hell and there was people dunking on me for complaining about my framerates dropping from 60 to 25 for seemingly no reason. Because God forbid this ultimate masterpiece gets ANY SINGLE PIECE of criticism right?
Yes! I think the subterranean shunning grounds were the best area in the game, but even they come nowhere near the feeling and aesthetics of the depths and blight town (although I didn't really like the gutter that much).
@@aenesidemus_schulze I'm biased bc ds2 is my favorite, but you're right. Every level in ds trilogy had a really well thought exploration process. People would often talk about sections of the map, not just bosses.
Sen's fortress, undead burg, the whole first half of ds1 was really well put together and not just about the bosses. Ds2 was also like this, even shrine of Amana (an area people like to piss on) was elaborated in a way you would see exploration as a challenge and not just the boss at the end.
When you're not rushing with torrent and missing all the challenge, you're dealing with areas that feel so devoid of planning they're just there to fill the gaps.
HP bar endless? ER DLC bosses outside of PCR melt with any build My dude many fights won't last more than 3-4 mins if You take your time, or you are playing no upgrades no schadutree fragments? If this was monster hunter or Dragon's dogma 1 i would have believed you, in mhw Arch tempered nergigante fight lasted 45 min to defeat and Daimon first form from dd1 almost an hour in My final try but bcs the sword and shield vocation sucks 😭
@@LaloBalteus By the time you reach certain bosses, they'll have huge hp bars and take insignificant damage. On new attempts and knowing where to get all the good stuff to make the very specific builds that will melt them, they'll in fact melt. I don't play games with the wiki open, I try to experience stuff the intended way. And the fact is ER sucks ass on orienting the player towards the tools that create accessibility and exposes a boss weakness, and to be honest, "melting" a boss mostly consists on spamming an attack and playing the most boring way possible. I liked when boss fights weren't about numbers and spamming specific moves. And knowing that bosses are all there is to talk about the average elden ring experience says a lot. To complement what I've said in the comment, I wouldn't mind the bosses overdesign issue if the game posed more thoughtful challenges on the spaces in between boss fights. When you make a game experience revolve around bosses you'll have not much to compensate when someone don't like your boss fights, which is my case. I don't like queelag but blighttown is a great area that matters on itself gameplay and lorewise.
I want more of the feeling i got in dark souls 1. Slowly progressing through, wondering if im even going the right way and searching for a bonfire while getting lower and lower on heals and then feeling relief when you find some unexpected shortcut back to your bonfire. It almost felt like a survival horror game. Now i dont really feel the tension, you can pretty much always tell what the shortcuts are(and in elden ring they feel mostly pointless since you almost always spawn next to the boss room). This must be how the resident evil fans felt going from the og games to 4-6
lol go play ds1 than it’s nostalgia for a reason games change. No one wants to play the same game for 10 straight years
@@23beats28 lol anyone who's only argument is "nostalgia" isn't even worth arguing with.
@@jamesbarnett5157 lol stop evading. All I said was a fact that you want ds1 feels in elden ring like what 😂😂 go play ds1 and stop living in the past or wait for the next ds1 remaster in2045 kid 😂
@@23beats28 lmao no. Again if you're argument is "you only like it cause nostalgia" you aren't even worth arguing with. Elden ring has no tension, there's no cool shortcuts or level design. There's no more creative traps like mimics and elevators that have spikes at the top etc. The only thing elden ring has is bosses and even then the only the main ones are good, and even some of the main bosses are just reused ideas from previous games like rykard. Not to mention they pretty much just keep repeating the same story. Artorias, ludwig, and radahn are all basically the same character. Elden ring sucks and they either need to do something completely different or make another game like ds1
What you want is Dragons Dogma 2. It came out this year.
I’ve seen people defend the dlc by saying the base game map was also empty and devoid of content… wut.
37:27 1-2 years from now, more and more videos will come out criticizing the flaws of Shadow of The Erdtree. Same thing happened with Tears of The Kingdom.
Oh yeah the BoTW DLC : Tears of The Kingdom
Already plenty of videos. The problem is that right now all the videos are knee jerk reactions to getting your shit kicked in. Like if its not your cup of tea then cool, but its an evolution on what they're good at. Far better than any AAA game in the past 5 years.
Tears of the kingdom already has videos like that after a month it came out. The difference is that that's a whole ass sequel that took 6 years to develop. Meanwhile this is a Dlc that took 1.5-2 years.
totk had a lot of videos like that pretty early on because it wasn't hard to realize how mid it was
like it feels like more of a dlc than shadow of the erdtree, THE ACTUAL DLC
I've been putting off Radahn for weeks. I just can't be bothered lmao. Never felt this way about a souls game before.
he got nerfed, Honestly Fromsoft W
Hard does not always equal good
The challenge still hhas to be fun (FPS dropping during fights isn't)
Well I like it and that’s all what matters and everyone who else loves it stop trying to fight this guy it’s not gonna change is opinion
I loved most of the bosses both in Elden Ring and in the DLC but having Rahdan as a last boss was a disappointment for me.
With that being said i fully i agree about the Shadow Tree fragment system being bad and the world is to big and empty.
They should have made it a way more focused experience imo instead of one huge fetch quest.
Feeble clout chaser is back.
I can't believe you already open the video with such a bad take.
Your Breath of the Wild example is so stupid. Yes, if the weapons in Breath of the Wild did not break and were different and unique to one another i would do every single shrine i found (unlike what i did when i played, because the rewards were boring and predictable).
I would not care about searching where to get the "Only important items" because nobody needs their hearts and stamina maxed in order to enjoy and beat the game,
A lot of people want to get fun new option to use in combat and find that to be much more rewarding than a boring stat upgrade. Why can't you get that through your head?
All the weapons are the same if you ignore Weight, Moveset, Looks, Damage, Damage Type, Posture damage, Speed, Range and unique ashes of war. So basically, if you ignore everything and boil down to the most basic point of comparison they are the same? That is so dishonest, Loopine already called you out for this in his reaction to your previous video.
I don't think he is dishonest on purpose he is just really stubborn and often perceives his feelings as facts. Pretty similar to Joseph Anderson, which is funny considering how he was the inspiration for this channel
@@robertosalvattori7069 I feel like you could say the same for like 90% of the critiques ive seen on this game
Are you dumb? His BOTW example was exactly on point. The reason people do the shrines is so they can get the Spirit Containers to increase their stamina and hearts. If the only thing they offered were some shitty breakable weapon nobody would want to do them. Acting like people dont care about Spirit Containers because you dont need max of them is absolutely troglodyte thinking.
Who gives a shit if all the weapons have those slight differences? You arent going to be majorly changing the way you approach a boss. Who cares if some weapon has a cool weaponart, when the punish window is so small you wont be able to use it without getting hit as a result. Not to mention its generally better to just get more hits in with regular attacks then trying to do something fancy.
Lol at posture damage when you cant even see the posture bar, which From purpsefully hides for some strange reason.
Why are Fromsoft fanboys so purposefully obtuse?
@@NewSorpigal1 It's different. "This experience would suck and be absolutely unacceptable in any open world game, yet is literally the framework Shadow of the Erdtree is built around"
This is an objective statement. To whom exactly this would be unnaceptable? Certainly not for me, but he says it as is it is an absolute truth that we all agree upon instead od framing it as his opinion.
It would be the same as your friend, while having zero experience when it comes to how you craft an instrument to say that Guitar is badly made, that is a poor product and that it should be considered bad by any musician worth their salt.
@@NewSorpigal1 That is not how it works, specially on the internet,
I someone presents what they are saying as fact, they will be callet out on it. Rightfully so.
This also shows a lack of writing skills had he said something on the effect of "I don't understand why people like this world design so much, i found it to be extremely boring" we would not be having this conversation as nobody would have a problem with that,
I understand he mentions later in the video that these are all his opinions, but this is simply not good enough, If someone is new to this channel and misses this video for whatever reason, they wil not have this information and even after stating something like that you need to make sure you understand what you are saying to your audience at every moment.
This is the same thing that happened with Joseph Anderson and his "subjectivity is implied video".
It is the creator's job to clarify and distinguish their opinions from fact, not up to the audience to keep guessing for them
I hope these games will go back to a more Metroid-Vania style of world design, open-world makes it magical the first playthough but holy shit it damages replayability just as much imo
I stopped after "if you use a guide it's gonna be boring". It's a dlc after a hundred hours of playtime. Is supposed to give you beautiful views to appreciate, a few new weapons to play with and challenging new bosses. And it delivers on all of these fronts. Ioved it and don't buy those weird, endlessly repeated on RUclips arguments at all. Build your own opinion instead of repeating what others are saying.
He’s telling the truth you fanboys will love it no matter what
Hard agree on the build propositions. ER basically has two playstyles, caster and melee. They had a chance to change up the gameplay organically with hand2hand arts, but failed miserably since R2 and AoW spam are still the most meta way to play them.
They somehow made boss rewards even shittier than in base game, already a low bar since most rememberances are worse than what you find in the overworld.
They could have left the bosses difficult but made fighting mobs more fun. I hope they're glad their enemy design literally incentivizes you to run past them.
But hey, they got me good. By the time I realized what a clown show this was, it was too late to refund.
31:48 No. What you've done here is you've created enough distance to not be up close anymore. That's not always possible, far from it. You've attacked with jump heavy and she decided to start waterfowl before it landed? You're locked in recovery animation and you're doomed. You fight with a heavy weapon? You're probably doomed. You've spent 0.4s too long to realise her jump is a start of waterfowl? You're doomed. At that point there's nothing you can do, you can't even throw the bomb, she'll kill you before it leaves your hand. Joseph's point still stands.
Overall I think (and I find it funny) you and Joseph actually agree on boss points, you just name the things differently. What you call "a blind spot that I can't believe I couldn't see before but now that I see it i find the boss to be very fair" he calls "an unintuitive exploit you need 20 dumb deaths to accidentally stumble upon", both are the same thing and some people find it (along with abundance of cheap moves like unnaturally delayed attacks and combo follow ups that read your input) unacceptable. Correct me if I'm wrong, no malice intended.
Great review regardless.
What I found w malenia (first phase when she is passive a lot): she either attacks or waits. If you approach her and she attacks straight away it WILL be a hyper armor/wfd attack. If she has a delay when you get close it is always a staggerable attack. With this knowledge and getting in a rhythm where you back up and focus on positioning after every attack you make its pretty consistent to dodge all her attacks, phase 2 is easier imo
Waterfowl discussion is all moot anyway because you can dodge it and just get hit once, which is equivalent to one heal (of which you have 14). People are obsessed with bosses being possible hitless for the average person and I don't understand it
@@glowerworm clearly you've never been staggered by that one hit or hit by four of her attacks in that very first window and die instantly.
@@Soundwave1900 if you miss the dodge on the first swing of hers, it's equivalent to missing the dodge on any other boss's grab or jump and slam, which is almost always a one shot death for all of them, too.
@@glowerworm but i die from her first swing no matter the timing, even if i dodge in time it catches me on recovery frames and i still die instantly
Its so sad how dark souls 1 was methodical, almost relaxing, slow and strategic. Yet elden ring is wastefully big besides the visuals and so fadt paced its no longer relaxing
Just the substance for its source, not the trash they label as a reward for participating. I play the boss fight for the boss fight, not what I might get for defeating it. I explore the world to explore it, to fight views and great sights. Not for items. I hate open worlds with crap in every corner, it spoils the enjoyment of just existing in the game.
Yeah, so much of this vid feels like ADHD ranting.
@@sartavin And my own comment, I kept typing a different word to what I thought I typed XD
@@sartavinnot even that. I have godawful adhd and I found exploring everything really fun. Don’t use most of the items I find but that’s okay. I think Brodie is just whining.
I'm guessing the unreasonably hard boss design is for marketing, it keeps the people talking long enough until its the right time for them to release a fix patch
I really hope Matthew makes a video addressing SOTE and Elden Ring as a whole.
he's getting a reputation as a souls critic but i dont think he's made one since his demon souls video
Most of the video will be bosses bad because I can't fight them like DS3 bosses
@@debater452 Yes. DS3 bosses were fun even if their mechanics were similar. They should build off of that instead of making it less fun.
Its not fun running away from an undodgable nuke every time the bosses hp hits 50% and then watching him fly around for 15 minutes because Im in a Michael Bay movie all of a sudden.
dodging a flailing Midir and repositioning to catch him when he calms down is more fun that watching Bayle LARP as a Fighter Jet.
@@KyngD469 It's almost like you can't use DS3 methods in Elden ring. You have to be agressive and earn openings. How can't you see that
@@debater452 Bloodborne is my favourite game in the series, it taught me to be more aggressive in all the Souls games.
My issue is that I like using a big slow sword, so even when I want to be aggressive, I get punished because my attacks come out too slow.
dodging into a 7-10 hit combo from Morgott/ Rellana/ Melania isnt a great experience for me. I wish those bosses would calm down a bit.
The other bosses are fine. Dancing w/ the Ulcerated Tree sprit and other bosses are fine. They have wind-ups and I can usually tell what they are doing so sticking close to them works for me and my slow weapon.
The Sekiro bosses need to chill. Gael is a great example of a boss I can be aggressive with, with a slow weapon, because he doesnt have an anime mode. He clearly gets tired after doing a long chain of attacks.
It's crazy how much ER would be fixed with a boss replay mechanic... 🤦
4:46 I hate how some of the coolest ash of war are too slow to be used in bosses. I got a hammer from a new crucible knight and I tried to use it for a boss fight but I kept losing. I thought the spinning hammer would be a hit box but it wasn't. So I swapped back to my original
It got buffed. Its faster now
It also wasn't that bad in the first place either, I used it pretty well vs midra. You've just gotta stance break or find the right openings.
@thehotd0g8 if you get a stance break wouldn't a critical hit do more damage
@@makito106depends. If you have the right setups there are a bunch of things that would do better damage than a crit. Keep in mind that staggered enemies take a lot more damage generally, not just because of the crust you could do.
IDK if you have addressed this already but your issue with healing during an attack window healing boss posture can be solved by using throwing/fan daggers after you heal. I'm not saying it's intuitive game design but it improved the pace of the fights a lot for me