skl.sh/jacksaint2 Hey! Thanks for watching. I try to keep an eye on comments so looking forward to what y’all have to say. Remember to use that Skillshare promo link for two free months of the service, it’s basically like getting a reward for watching my video. PATREON: www.patreon.com/jacksaint KO-FI: ko-fi.com/lackingsaint TWITTER: twitter.com/LackingSaint TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/lacksaint Here’s my obligatory Q&A covering some of the big questions from the video; *So you think it’s bad because a white man does a nice thing for non-white people?* That’s an extremely reductive way to look at what I’m saying - like I say, I don’t even think the white saviour is *the* problem with the white saviour trope. It’s more the consequential minimizing and infantilizing of indigenous peoples which is the problem. Think of it like the problem with “SJW pandering”, except towards the majority demographic (ha! Like that ever happens!) Also I don’t dislike the movie because of that, I dislike the movie because it’s kind of boring and predictable. *Can the white saviour trope be used well?* That would depend on where you draw the line on what designates a ‘white saviour’. I think having an anglo-european lead character who does not minimize the achievements of the minority characters they are fighting for and alongside would be cool (the new Wolfenstein games are a perfect example of this), but you may not consider that a ‘white saviour’ at that point. Maybe a more traditional ‘white saviour’ would work if it was specifically about critiquing that mindset. Or hey, maybe it’s just time to have a story about the minority experience led by people who have actually lived those experiences! There’s a lot to think about. *Actually it’s just a movie about the environment, not about colonialism.* Stories can be about multiple things, and the colonial aspects of Avatar are not the least bit subtle. You’re trying to ‘depoliticize’ an overtly political text. *Did you see Jenny Nicholson’s video on the Avatar theme park?* Yep! Jenny’s great, and without her vid I probably wouldn’t have mentioned it in this video. Thanks for reading, and thanks for watching!
Jack Saint Jake Sully doesn't colonise the Navi through soft / smart power as this would imply that he could bend its society to his will. He isn't taking them in a direction that they wouldn't take themselves. Unlike the RDA he isn't there to exploit their natural resources. If anything the Navi have colonised him, and persuaded him to join their culture. By no means does Jake Sully conquer the Navi. LOL.
It took me 9 years to see this movie, and 10 minutes to figure out the plot. The visuals are very pretty, and the only reason I actually finished the film. I totally agree with your statements and analysis. Although I will confess to actually enjoying the Avatar theme park. In my defense, it was the coolest part of the whole park by about 20 degrees Fahrenheit. And it had more benches.
ElizIndRhythm The _AVATAR_ theme park looked like they had really made an effort about it, with those floating islands being the most impressive thing and the bioluminescent boat ride being a close second.
So I'm doing a masters in conservation biology you've touched on something that is a huge problem in this field. People choose what animals to conserve often because of their own wish fulfillment. If funding was directed towards the species that had the most ecological importance, then conservation of all species would be much more successful. But species of ecological importance often look like beetles or some plain looking fish. Giant pandas have almost no ecological importance, meaning, no other species rely on them to survive. But a disproportionate amount of funding goes to them at the expense of keystone species . All this so people can feel like a hero. Panda deserve to be saved because of what they do for us apparently, while *obscure beetle species* maybe very important for the environment but they don't make us happy so they do not deserve it :/
easily solved. go on thumblr and look for good amateur manga artists. ask them to draw said beetles and fishes as anime girls. repeat every couple months when the fads starts getting slow. badabing badaboom you've saved biodiversity. feel free to mention me in your thesis.
The bird thing seriously frustrated me. Is his old one lonely now? Will it die of loneliness? Can he still ride both? Is the old one mad at him now? I care about this way too much Edit: guys stop taking this seriously, I didn't know he lets the red one go at the end
SAME. is his old bird just gonna follow him around waiting to be ridden again? oh my god what if it dies alone while waiting for jake to call for it I'm gonna cry
The Toruk, the big red one, doesn't bond for life, the small blur ones do. I'm pretty sure the whole brain connection means the little one will understand.
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say; a lot of the issues within the third act would have been elevated if Neytiri's character arc was changed slightly and she and Sully's roles switched. If she had a few more scenes wherein she was struggling to live up to the hopes of her father it would cement her anxiety about becoming chief of her tribe. Hell, maybe she doesn't have a bird/dragon because she can't complete the trial or she failed the trial before. This clearly gives her an underdog story, mirroring Sully's at the beginning of the film. The biggest change would be that _Neytiri_ would ride the big dragon-bird-thing, not Sully. _She_ would become the chief of her people and lead them to victory with the aid of Sully and the other defecting humans. Maybe Sully's the one on the ground while she's in the air, maybe they win with a combination of both technology and nature. This change still allows Sully to have his big fight at the end (which already takes place on the ground). You still get the wish fulfilment of being on a cool alien planet, you still get to keep the big sweeping battles and the dragons and such, but the story is subtly no longer about Sully being the only one to save the aliens. :/ It's not perfect but I think it would have been a lot better then what the third act ended up being.
Plus, it was _her_ ancestors that road the thing! Jake just wanted to fly, and he got that. He should've just bonded with his bird more. Didn't Neytiri's die or something? Wouldn't it make the most sense that she reconnects with her ancestors through that creature since her home tree was destroyed?
@@muntu1221 Ah, another piece that makes thematic sense! You're right Muntu!!! Another huge theme in the film that kinda misses the mark is familial connects and personal identity; Jake would find his identity through the passing of his brother, Neytiri through her ancestors. Both fufiling what their family could not. Honestly the more I think about it the more mad I become 😂
I was thinking along the exact same lines, having Neytiri take on the role of big-bird-rider makes more sense given her ancestor’s connection to one, and could have been a more impactful and fulfilling character arc for her. Plus, having her unite the Na’vi goes a long way toning down the white savior elements. Honestly I just want to pretend this version of Avatar exists because it would be a more enjoyable movie.
@@BasiliskKingOfSerpents I highly agree! This is a childhood movie for me; I'd watch repeatedly and I have a lot of fond memories of it, so I don't think it'll ever leave that special nostalgic place in my heart... but even as a kid I thought Neytiri was robbed and that she should have gotten the big dragon XD
I think the problem is that the white savior trope is also a very male-centered stereotype, for while there are exceptions, the usual trope is that the male hero falls in love with the chieftains daughter, and winning the "indian princess" are really just there to be just another mark of success for the hero on par with taming the biggest beast or besting the native's greatest warrior. Just goes to show how shallow and cliched the movie ended up being in the third act.
I facepalmed so damn hard when the guy returned with the Big Birb, and and he'd suddenly gained the respect of all the Na'vi... Like... Why must you be so shallow? Did you suddenly forget about the fact that he'd betrayed just a day or two ago...? .-.
@@diddles3383 He didn't betray the Na'vi, but the RDA. It seems like everybody here didn't get the point . The lead being a caucasian man actually does work in the movie's favor. The film is about reconnecting with nature and how we as individuals would benefit from that. It wouldn't make much sense thematically if the lead was a Native American since Jake, a former marine that fought on behalf of a nation that does not value its nature, relinquishes his attatchment and loyalty to a force that rebukes the idea of reconnecting with nature.
Edit: Thank you loremasters, I get it. The Toruk is a player and gets around. Sully just had to show he was mr big dick to the wood elves before returning to faithful Ikran. The saddest part for me was that he abandoned his bird for a "cooler one", even though the original did its best to help :( I actually like when characters aren't abandoned like tools.
Also he lets the bird red bird go at the end of the movie so I guess he gets his original one back? But it's funny to me cus those things apparently eat navi all the time so it would suck if it ate his girlfriend a few years down the line.
I always just assumed that riding that banshee was a social way to get people to join his cause. It makes him seem powerful, and since the banshee have to allow you to bond with them it was like a mutual agreement between the two
As a native American this film made me very uncomfortable and I'm so glad someone is finally talking about it! It was one of those movies where if you criticized it then you were stupid and just didn't get it (much like Rick and Morty now). Thank you for speaking so eloquently about how I have felt for 10 years now.
Im also native and I remember my dad was pissed about this movie. He would say, “Another movie where the natives can’t save themselves and have to have the white man come teach us our own culture.” I honestly regret wasting three hours of my life watching this piece of crap.
Same with the mainstream usage of "savage" and "chief" it makes me sick not to mention when I was in high school and I told people about my Oglala Lakota ancestory on my mom's side and my classmates started calling me "tanto" and "chief" not to mention all those shitty old racist Clintwood and John Wayne westerns I often see playing for the residents at the nursing home I work at genocidal othering and racism is pervasive unfortunately like a lot of shitty biases under capitalism, yeah Avatar really sucks.
So uhhhhh... Just realized, "Get Out" puts the whole "human minds in Na'vi bodies" deal in a whole different perspective. They may be lab-grown here but I still can't shake it.
Mr. Lock If anything, it’s worse in Avatar. At least in Get Out the minorities are “admired” to the point of dehumanization and fetishization for possessing what white people consider to be “rare and attractive traits”. In Avatar? You can make that shit in a fucking beaker. Ouch.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick I see what you mean, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's worse in Avatar. In Get Out the crime is also that they're literally stealing another person's body. And since a "sliver" of them remains, the victim is condemned then to be stuck watching someone else control and impersonate them. In Avatar, there's still things to be said about the idea of being able to just enter into and dominate a culture by artificially growing another body like theirs (this gets even more problematic when applying it to humans impersonating other humans than another species entirely) and beating them at everything they spent their lives doing. But, they at the very least aren't stealing Na'vi bodies or condemning sentient minds to a fate arguably worse than death.
Mr. Lock But really, is there any difference? Either way, minorities are being worn as costumes so that white people can infiltrate their culture and exploit them to the point of obsolescence.
I only noticed when he said “an elaborate kind of blue face” and I went back to check if it was always there because I thought he only used it for that line.
♪You'd think the only people that are people are the people that are not tall and blue But when you connect your hair veins to a space horse you'll learn the things you never knew you never knew♪
I actually think Pocahontas did this concept better than Avatar. Think about it, there are only two or three characters with black and white morality, both the colonists and the natives end up villainizing the other side of the conflict, and John Smith doesn't save the natives in the end. Say what you will about the rest of that movie, but that's something that Disney got right. Also, can't there be a story in which a white person joins a tribe of indigenous people and just becomes an ordinary member?
@@andysee6996 Any movie that tries to make us see Natives and colonists as on equal footing is gross. You can easily find resources online that show most Natives hate Pocahontas as a film with a burning passion. I mean, I know I certainly do. I have a softness for it only because growing up it was the only film I knew of that showed people who were supposed to be like me but outside of that.. yeah, it's disgusting. It whitewashes a story of a young Native girl being horrifically abused and makes us see it all through rose colored glasses. I really wouldn't even give it a passing compliment tbh.
There's some alternate story here where Jake is explicitly a manipulative bastard and his ability to form multiple life-long bonds is hailed as a great capacity for love, when in fact it's because humans are two-faced. He has a crisis of conscience at the last second (end of act one) but the Navi can't imagine you could love someone and still betray them so to them he's above suspicion. Neytiri is the only one who realises and considers him an actual monster, but she needs their chosen one narrative to unite her people and fight back. We end up with a story focusing on the nature of humanity that asks if we're worth saving in spite of our flaws.
But being a mary sue is not inherently bad I mean, I know reactionaries will use any term in the wrong way willingly to justify themselves, but this joke kind of validates this flawed understanding of tropes and archetypes, like saying this character is a mery sue/Gary stu is somehow a valid critique without taking into account how that decision actually affects the story being told
Y’know what would have made the colonialist undertones of this movie so much less prominent? Just make Jake a Native American. It would immediately give him a VERY strong reason to empathize with the Na’vi, and a believably internalized understanding of the typical dynamics of tribal society. Not only that, but it could provide some social commentary about how native veterans can often be treated in this country. Bam. I got rid of the white savior narrative. It was THAT easy, Hollywood.
The trouble there is you would have to have at least one Native American actor in Hollywood EDIT: There are obviously many extremely talented Native actors trying to find success in the entertainment industry! Apparently in 2019 I decided to say "Hollywood would have to stop excluding Native artists first" in the most obtuse way possible lol
Now I'm picturing the movie with Jake played by Adam Beach. His last Hollywood blockbuster role was being wasted in "Suicide Squad". "Here comes Slipknot, the man who can climb anything."
Yeah man! And not only that, but they had bilateral hair dicks, extra eyes, and nostrils on their chest, too. The dramatic anatomical differences were super distracting, and made it really obvious that they were going for sexy space cats instead of a convincing member of the Pandoran ecosystem.
The females shouldn't have breasts either, but the design team decided to add them for their best attempt at visual "no homo." Because females are only REALLY female when they have obvious mammaries and a flat chested alien with a woman's voice is too easy to mistake for a male 🙄
Hollywood doesn't support beastiality. Therefore make the main plot aliens as humanoid as possible. That's why District 9 is the superior movie. They had xenosex adressed and established (interspecies prostitution) at least.
What annoys me most about Pandora is that the Na'vi don't look like they belong in the ecosystem, physiologically. On Earth, the tetrapedal body plan was sorted out early in land-dwelling animal evolution, and is only deviated from by atrophy, to my knowledge. Every non-Na'vi animal on Pandora is an hexaped with chest-mounted breathing holes, two sex-braids, and generally four eyes. What happened in their genus's history to make the Na'vi so different?
leXie Well, they’ve gotta be fuckable for the audience to give a shit about them. It’s the same reasoning that gave those prawn things from District 9 giant puppy-dog eyes. They can’t be TOO alien, or else the audience would want them dead too. Sad, ain’t it?
uh it’s called lazy character design+making the audience sympathize w/ them more easily bc they look like us (which is understandable in a way but like,, if ur gonna make aliens...make ‘em alien yknow?)
Yeah, they tried to imply that the Na'vi's genetic ancestors gradually lost their hexaped limbs (the alien lemurs seen briefly in the film have their double arms fused together at the elbow). But it felt like trying to have their cake and eat it too, in having hexaped creatures everywhere but then the Na'vi being the only tetrapeds. The ol' "but they have to look just like humans so that the audience will want to **** the princess". :p
I'm one of the approximately 10 still active Avatar fans and... i'm suffering..... my brain contains all the names of all the characters and animals and plants and even parts of the na'vi language..... someone help me
Neytiri should have caught the big bird. After her father dies, she should have stepped up as leader but is shot down due to her being tainted by her relationship with the liar Jake Sully. Have Jake Sully return and try to warn about the upcoming attack and offer to help. Have him lay out his case that he and his friends can point out the weak spots they know about as traitors, but they are pushed out and untrusted. Have Neytiri then argue to listen to Jake and have some elders say "This is why you will never be leader." Then have her go get the big bird. She comes back, become leader, unites the clan and frees Jake (and the others) saying she wants their help and knowledge so she can save her people. Not perfect but better, and gives at least the hint of a character arc for Neytiri.
That's honestly a GREAT suggestion that does a lot to add nuance to the native characters, and still allows Jake to be considered "valuable" in the story while giving Neytiri and the others the autonomy they deserve. My immediate reflex was to think of how writers handled the uneasy alliance between the more technologically advanced Sky People with the more versatile and environmentally savvy Grounders in the second/third season of the 100. There was a level of mutual respect and dependence on the other that emphasized both groups knowledges and cultures. (Totally separate topic but still.)
Glad you aren't going into screenwriting, since this isn't the main point of the movie. The point of that scene was to prove that he was worthy to still be apart of the Omaticaya tribe after he became an official member. What is the point if Neytiri just conquers Toruk? I mean, she even saved Jake's ass at the end of the film. Forgot that part? What's up with these kids not realizing that the film isn't trying to promote white savior tropes, but instead subverts it and becames a story about an individual realizing that there is value in connecting with the natural world.
. Guys, ONLY MEN CAN BE THE CHEIF IN THE TRIBES AND ONLY MEN CAN RIDE THE LAST SHADOW DUE TO THE PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY THE NAVII LIVE IN!!!! Also banshees choose their riders. The last shadow was always after Jake.
On top of that, not-so-subtly telling people with disabilities how much better, happier and Less Corrupt they'd be if their disability was suddenly Fixed and they got a New, Not-Broken Body is pretty... yikes.
Except people with disabilities actually wish they didnt have them and people have worked for decades to improve upon any shortcomings they have. Why do you sound like medical advancement and people overcoming disabilities is some gross thing ?
While I get what you're trying to say, I worry about taking that too far: pretending that having a not broken body WOULDN'T make them happier. Jake suffered a traumatic injury. Pain and loss in the most literal, physical sense. The character is flat as paper, but his disability being cured is just part of the heavy handed wish-fulfillment at the end. For the typically abled, just a happy ending, for those who feel lack, an escapist vision. Am I rambling?
Yeah, the "magical cure" narrative is something a lot of disabled people have a problem with - the idea that a happy ending for us always involves becoming abled, rather than just our accommodation needs being better met, or other conflicts in our lives resolved.
Y'know, in 9th grade social studies, we took like a couple days to watch Avatar precisely because of its "anti-colonial" aspects. I don't recall if there was any mention at all of the white saviour stuff at the time. In thinking about it, this trope is ripe for variation. I'd be very interested in a story where a white saviour shows up and just makes things worse and gets kicked out of the indigenous society, or maybe one where a highly advanced alien species becomes the "white saviour" to the affluent white "westerners" of today. Good stuff!
If anyone’s interested, there’s a great book called Postcolonial Theory and Avatar by Gautam Basu Thakur which touches on many similar issues to this video while, at the same time, giving a decent and engaging intro to postcolonial film criticism.
also not to understate the weird racial tones of the bodyswap thing but as a disabled person the whole "they finally embrace with their natural bodies and still recognize each others' souls; then ten minutes later they let his original disabled body just die" is uh. a choice
That made me SO uncomfortable. Good thing he wasn't mentally disabled because he'd have to throw his whole himself out to stop being disabled. :p HATE it when movies magically 'fix' disabled people as a reward
I was not expecting "Valarian" to be the expensive sci-fi movie people forgot about... Which means I forgot about it. I was thinking "John Carter" or "Jupiter Ascending" or "Mortal Engines" or ...
Wontolla omg i watched that movie recently and tbh it was kinda stupid but it was really fun like....for some reason Eddie Redmayne was there and he was so fucking weird looking ?
Something I realised when watching this is that Jake's dissatisfaction with modernity is a pretty middle-class ableist view of the world He doesn't like how pretty much everything is at his his finger-tips, he doesn't have to struggle for food and he can stay out all night and get black out drunk (something that's good really but it framed as bad because he wakes up sad on the floor and it's raining) and he much prefers to have a life where he literally has to hunt every day to survive. He's just a super boring generic person who has no hobbies so doing literally anything routinely is super attractive to him, and so hunting seems great, but what if they have a bad winter or they suffer a drought or sickness due to lack of storage technology or vaccines, suddenly struggling to survive becomes harder and less of just something fun to do and then he'd probably start to have second thoughts about choosing to live in a society that is relatively primitive. He loves how in his Avatar he can run about and hunt, but they frame that as a critique on modernity, as symbolism that he's trapped, but apparently if he just raised money he could buy himself new legs (I may be wrong though, I may have misinterpreted some of the lines), but overall at least he can survive and not face serious struggles and have fun staying out all night getting black out drunk. If you look at the natives, they don't seem to have any disabled members of their community, no one with special needs, no one who has conditions that keep from being fit and thin, everyone is able, and sure an in-universe explanation may be because they're species don't have such issues, but it's seeming far more likely that, as they're relatively primitive, they would let the babies with such conditions just die. If a native has an accident and becomes physically disabled then they're probably left for dead. So its really Jake wanting to live in a society where he is able and the disabled are left to die rather than where he is disabled and well-looked after, which is pretty awfully selfish of him. God this movie, in trying to be progressive and positive, is super backwards! Pro-colonialist pretending to be Anti-colonialist, Ableist pretending to be anti-ableist, individualism pretending to be collectivism, and on and on and on.
It's a common trope, that one of "simpler, harder life is more valuable than a modern one" that makes me facepalm about Star Trek Insurrection and the end of the newfangled Battlestar Galactica. I like having a several-decade life expectancy, thanks. And on that tangent, what are the humans who rebelled against the company going to do for air once theirs runs out? And food? And aren't there still like a decade's worth of ships inbound?
@Rockin' Roll Alcoholism =/= getting blackout drunk once. It's good in that it's a choice experience non-alcoholics do make and enjoy; when they don't stop making that choice, it becomes bad, and probably alcoholism. The movie presents Jake making that choice once, showing his freedom of doing it as bad, and then never touching or hinting at there being an alcoholism problem (which would be an ACTUAL problem). Associating it to alcoholism is reaching, as that wasn't in the movie.
@@Heimdal001 uhhh idk I've never *enjoyed* getting blackout drunk. I think OP's point was that it's better to be *able* to without being like devoured by bears while you're out. that said, you'll still get robbed. and lots of indigenous folks would get blasted semi-regularly on stronger drugs than alcohol, so I don't think that's specifically a privilege of technology, or a great argument.
I know we're talking about a fictional alien culture here, but I feel like you're implying that pre-industrial human cultures generally abandoned or made no room for the people with disabilities, as if social Darwinism is baked into human nature or early human cultures somehow. which as far as I'm aware is totally historically inaccurate. homelessness-that thing where modern capitalist countries just abandon people with disabilities to suffer and die in plain view of everyone-didn't exist, at least in north-eastern native American tribes (tho I'm not like an expert on this so feel free to correct me). it was a widespread practice that everyone gets a home, food, and medicine, regardless of your ability to make a living for yourself. sure, this medicine did not include things like vaccines or insulin. but that doesn't mean that people with untreatable diseases we're just left to die-the only cultures I'm aware of doing this we're extremely militaristic and were basically trying to breed supersoldiers-it wasn't out of necessity but as part of a program of eugenics. and that's because "the strong live, the weak die" is not a fact of nature; it's a feature of capitalist & imperialist societies that only feed and clothe and treat people in order to work them to death. I do think a major, unconscious element of Sully's (and by extension, the audience's) attraction to this alien culture is just that it is pre-capitalist. but most Americans don't have the framework to think about the social differences that way (and Avatar certainly doesn't provide it) so they translate this attraction thru familiar lenses like masculinity & Puritan values: enjoying the fruits of your labor (eating the food you hunt) becomes "simple living" or "good, honest hard work." the scene of him waking up after getting blackout drunk communicates how isolated he is, that everyone he was with just left him there, as opposed to the Navi who live communally, sleep in the same tree, etc. I think a lot of people who are attracted to hunter-gatherer livelihoods and the like wouldn't want to give up like medicine or central heating if pressed-or, to the extent they did, you'd be right that they don't realize how brutal that would be or how many people would be disabled without those technologies. but there are elements of pre-capitalist cultures-like, the ones that result from their not-having-capitalism-which seem, to me, *obviously* preferable to the isolated, frightening, atomized life of late-capitalism. obviously, this yearning for a return to some primitive state of being is also dangerous, undialectical, and can lead to right wing politics, but it's at least understandable and can be redirected towards productive ends, and is not, I don't think specifically a middle-class yearning.
I kind of want to see the opposite of Avatar. Where a injured alien takes control of a lab grown human and then becomes the god-king of Earth. Everyone just falls in love with her because she captures some maguffin. It could be a him as well. Maybe the alien could be Christ. Or maybe the alien impregnates all the women in the world (as custom on his alien planet).
one of the things that concerns me about this film is how it portrays disability, and nobody really talks about it. i'm a disabled dude, and i honestly love it, but the way most film portrays disability is as some sort of thing that makes a character useless, and i'm not talking just physically useless. the whole "earn your legs back" and "get a new na'vi body because yours is shit" just made me feel extremely uncomfortable for reasons i can't really seem to express. and maybe this sounds nitpicky, but in a world with bad ass mechs and shit, wouldn't prosthetic robo-legs be like a standard thing? and we have a dude pushing himself around in a manual wheelchair that looks like it was manufactured in 2005? it just doesn't sit right with me. sully being disabled just seemed gross and unnecessary and i don't like how it was used as a plot device.
Considering the colonel promised him his legs back in their deal, I think it's implied people CAN get prosthetic robo-limbs in that world, but Jake couldn't afford them because he was poor due to his veteran status/alcoholism.
Because it isn't important. The main point was to demonstrate that there is value in connecting with nature, and making the visuals spectacular and not focusing on the plot (because that's what online droolers care about) is the main way to do it
I tried watching it three times and 2 of them I just fell asleep and one of them I got so drunk I didn't remember watching it so this is the truth to anyone who either couldn't afford/give a shit to watch in theaters in 3D (like me) or was too young to see "the spectacle of Avatar in IMAX" which was the main draw of the film at the time
have to say, although i can see how bland the characters are in it now, when the movie came out i was so young that i hadn't seen those tropes for a thousand times and it actually seemed all new cx hollywood must know they can pull this off every generation eh
I don’t remember the first minutes of the film . Especially the Scenes at earth .Maybe it’s a different version of the movie but I can’t seem to find it
Same, I have absolutely no memories of ever seeing earth in the movie, I saw it in Paris so maybe there a different versions depending on where it's projected?
I love this movie, as I love every movie where humanity looses and is exposed as the nature destruction bastards they are. But it would have been even more effectful if Jake sully would have been fully capable of walking and still decided to give humanity the finger and join the Na'vi.
Apparently the Disney Avatar theme park just totally 100% goes hand in hand with the whole appropriation and colonization thing. You can buy your own beads and hair extensions and the human workers/cast convince you that the navi are Super happy you're here
The movie lost me when Jake was sent to the Navi knowing an invasion was coming and instead of telling them, he goes through an induction ceremony and then screws his Navi girlfriend. “Once I’ve earned their trust, then they’ll listen to me.” No, you idiot, hiding things from them is what prevents you from earning their trust.
He knew telling them was pointless, as nothing would get them to move and telling them would mean his idyllic new life would come to an end. It was selfish but understandable.
Yeah, that's the whole point? Jake was being selfish and trying to lead both lives as if they wouldn't collide. He even mentions how living in his avatar seems more real to him. "Like in there is the real world and out here is the dream", while forgetting that both worlds are equally real, and his refusal to face up to this causes everything to blow up in his face and causes massive casualties to the Na'vi.
He could! If he laid on the floor with his hair haloed out-- Oh! Remember when he did that flowers crown thing? He could have flowers in his hair! HECK YEAH! (semi-related this makes me want to do a fan-art of Jack Saint with that flower crown, because I loved that look)
The worst part of the movie Valerian is that when I was doing a project on valerian root and I had sift through the movie promotion to find information on drug interactions.
Ouch, yeah that sounds like a headache. Seems like it was a cool project though. I love valerian root and I'm bummed that it's been taken out of herbal teas. Unless you learned something really negative about it?
@@kouusa no not in particular. Just keep in mind that since it's considered a supplement it's not as regulated as drugs. Also herbs can have interactions with medications (even if they are in tea form) so make sure it's safe for you to take.
@@latesummerlife Good to know. Yeah, just because something is herbal does not mean you don't give it the same carefulness you would regular medicine. St. John's Wort is the hallmark of that. Funny enough though is all the times I used Valarian root as a tea has got me to like that weird smell of it. XD
Funny how that vid's actually accidentally a great companion piece to this just cause so much of what Jenny describes about the park becomes so much more ghoulish when you put it in the context of Na'vi = indigenous group Like how the problem wasn't the presence of an interplanetary corporation exploiting an inhabited planet for financial gain, the problem is the specific corporation was BAD and EVIL but now a GOOD corporation has arrived and the Na'vi LIKE them and everything's fine Or how the sacred rite of passage where you form a lifelong bond with a creature that holds deep significance in Na'vi culture has been turned into a joyride for humans Or how, despite the multiple pictures and videos of the Na'vi participating in the construction of the park being on display as proof the corporation's presence on Pandora has the blessing of the Na'vi, there is only one Na'vi you can actually see in person in the entire park, and she's a literal shaman who's performing some presumably sacred ritual song for the entertainment of the human tourists Hell you can even pay to get yourself done up in full blueface if you want
As a non native English speaker the word "bird" and it's pronunciation and especially used to describe the flying animals is inexplicably and utterly hilarious to me ?? Like I love hearing it and reading in the comments it's making my day lol
I always viewed the nature of pandora winning the final battle for them as "nature god got pissed off and decided of its own volition to get rid of the invaders" not "jake colonized god". But maybe i was missing something.
I think Jake showing Eowa his memories of earth helped greatly but in the end, Jake was not the hero and I never saw him as the hero. Yet I do in fact disagree with lots of things in this video and in the comments.
But the point is it’s shown and handled like Jake was the one who caused it and he literally benefits from it in the end I mean you’d think the planet would have realized and or noticed humans were “bad” with all the massive pit mining and destruction they're doing to the ecosystem the fact it’s hinted they have had violent encounters with the locals and native as well as the fact their ships literally have massive missiles and guns to blow way the local mega fauna anytime they encounter them or how about when the humans literally carpet bomb home tree into splinters? at no other point the planet decided to get involved until after the “white savior” made his speech and told it humans were bad? Sorry the living planet had plenty of evidence that humans were not only bad but were dangerous to it’s ecosystem long before jake ever “talked to it” which is why the fact the planet only reacts at the last second after being talked to by Jake that it looks like jake got its number,
Yeah, I think a lot of people 'criticising' Avatar miss the fact that Jake *didn't* save everyone. His army was massacred and he lost the fight with Quaritch. They were saved through deliberate intervention by the local god and then Neytiri had to save him.
Glad they decided on the Avatar program. God knows I would trust an alien wearing a soulless homunculus skinsuit probably made from a corpse than them just... talking to me.
It seems to me that the humans couldn’t take being so much physically smaller and weaker than the Na’vi out of subconscious pride more than any practical concerns.
I always thought that the animal kingdom version of pandora was tone deaf what with the whole “don’t worry we’re all friends! this is a tourist spot now :)” and all of the pieces of story telling in the park... I think there’s even a spot in one of the restaurants that have a letter on the wall congratulating the scientists on their work with “befriending the navi” and making it a tourist spot LOL
I think you missed a key plot point of the film. What the corporation was doing was patently illegal, and only the combination of the local administrator being both weak and greedy and Quaritch (the psycho military villain) being, well, fucking psycho caused what happened. He hated the place and its people, he hated the rules he was forced to operate under, and eventually said "you know what fuck it I'm sick of talking nice to these blue fuckers I'm just gonna wipe them the hell out and take what we want and make up an excuse after". The corporate guy was like "umm, you know we aren't allowed to do that right?" and Quaritch was like "you can either nod quietly and back up my story and get the credit for this haul I'm about to bring in, or you can be tragically killed in an unfortunate friendly fire accident." The company was NOT allowed to do any of what they did. Quaritch went rogue and did it anyway with the intention of covering it up after the fact. That depended on no one who wasn't on board with the plan surviving to tell the Earth authorities what really happened, with Quaritch and his people the only ones left to tell their version of the story and falsify evidence to back it up. It didn't matter if the authorities found it difficult to believe, it only mattered that they couldn't prove otherwise. With the only eyewitnesses being his people and all on the same page, and free reign to destroy and alter evidence, the authorities could be completely convinced he was guilty but be unable to build a case against him to prosecute. That means, with Quaritch dead and any of his people not KIA captured, the pro-Navi humans were free to tell the Earth authorities exactly what happened and present all the evidence needed to back it up. The surviving conspirators would have the book thrown at them and probably spend life in prison, and the company at minimum would be legally liable for massive fines and would lose their contract / legal license to operate on Pandora. There would be no repeat of the abuses, either of the Na'vi or their homeland. So of course the Na'vi would be able to be convinced that some humans at least were cool and could be friends, after all the official human government took action against the people who hurt them and some humans fought on their side. Those humans risked their lives, and some of them died, all to help them against the others. That's reason enough to allow some unarmed civilian humans to come visit so long as they stayed within carefully designated areas and behaved themselves.
I'd have liked the Na'vi to have been more alien, rather than analogous. Nothing as extreme as a species that breathes through their anuses, or eat with their necks or something. Just something more abstract and freaky. You know, something interesting. But I do actually like this film, in the same way I like cheese and ham sandwiches.
Apparently they were gonna go for a more "alien" alien,. Like, six limbed, no mammaries or even hair, to match along with the rest of the wildlife. But instead, sexy blue cat people, because mass appeal. It's funny, I was 14 when this came out. I laughed at how sexy they made the aliens on the promo poster. The huuuugggge eyes, small nose, big lips. The stretched but not warped bodies. (Also, their heads being, well, not stretched along with the rest of their body) Then I unironically fell in love with the movie, obsessing over it for two years. Like, 100% the crappy game level of obsession, just so I could get all the animal, plant, and Na'vi lore. I had fallen for the exact sort of marketing I had previously been mocking. Even with a more critical eye, ten years later, I stilI do look on the movie affectionately as a nostalgia thing. There are some clever ideas in there, too. Like how the planet is basically one giant brain made of trees, and the external brain stems of the Na'vi people and animals being able to upload and download memories. Like, their god actually exists and there is an afterlife of sorts because of it. A naturally occuring Matrix, if you will. And naming the McGuffin mineral "Unobtanium" is probably exactly what humanity would name it upon it being discovered. "Boaty McBoatFace" anyone?
@@GlitteryGecko this is going to sound superficial, but I started avoiding the movie as a kid when I initially heard all the hype about it for two reasons: one, I was always a massive contrarian, even as a child, and two, I really hated the way the Na'vi looked. They've just always been so hideous to me that it killed any interest I could have had in the movie.
"Hey, we should strip mine this planet for its rare metals" "Okay, where is it?" "It's this lush inhabited planet called Pandora" "... Why do you want to mine the only other planet we have ever found that has literally anything but minerals? If these metals are so important, why would they be local only to this planet, rather than its solar system? Or, hell, the entire local cluster of stars from the same nebula?" "Umm..."
You could probably argue something that the tree was responsible for that. Akin to how an oyster makes a pearl. But it was really just a metaphor for Oil in Iraq. It's best left unsaid like the force in starwars. Giving the midichlorians explanation didn't make it better.
At about 14 minutes you describe "Strike 1" against the movie being that they were worried about him being lost in the woods, and that they could have woken him up and located his Na'vi body that way. Several problems - it is established that interrupting a link is dangerous. It's also established that the pain experienced in the Na'vi body can impact you in your "real" body (though Grace's example is emotional pain). We see this when Norm is shot in the battle later on, he awakens in a state of pain and panic. I think it would be very traumatic to feel yourself die in a Na'vi body. Lastly, the Na'vi body is incredibly valuable. If left somewhere unsafe, it would probably get eaten by scavengers.
Yeah except that Jake is forcibly removed three times from the avatar bed which involves interrupting the link the first time when they pull him out of the body before hitting home tree, then after they already bomb home tree and pull jake and grace out to throw them in the brig, and then when quaritch attacks the science trailer and crushes jake’s avatar bed, And nothing happens to him at all. Also the point still stands whether or not it’s traumatic to die in the avatar body, jake would still be alive in his body, so it’s really not life threatening at all but still presented as such. the valuable part is the only one that makes actual sense.
When you said "remember what was cool and memorable about valerian and the city of 100 planets?" I instantly thought of the opening. It was so interesting and gave me hope that the rest of the movie would be as well
The movie is very interesting. Aside from the visuals, the thematic aspects are quite nuanced. It shows how one man goes from working with an oppressive force that disregards the value of nature to becoming an individual who recognizes the value in having a connection with the natural world.
@@Gunbladefire Have the mech's onboard AI join the Na'vi at the end. "I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism!" *stifled laughter skillfully disguised as angry hyperventilating* "PANDORA!"
It's been a long time since I saw that movie but I do remember that at least there the female "native" was more of a main character than the white guy. But yeah Avatar sure has a lot in common with that one. More so even than all the other examples people give probably, because of the fantasy escapism stuff. Even the colour palette was similar I think
@Syksy I was mostly just referencing the “guy gets transformed and learns about the locals with a sexy, exotic woman as his guide” similarities. Also they were both pretty hamfisted.
Let met get this off my chest: 90% of the action scene in avatar are Jake Sully falling down and you can interpret the movie has Jake Sully being a supervilain
It's basically boku no hero with Deku constantly crying. But that's the way it is. You usually don't follow the coolest or strongest character in a movie or in a series but rather some beta loser who struggles with even the basics.
really appreciate the effort and levity you put into this video! it's a p complex topic, colonization in popular culture. a few points, a) if i remember correctly, the artist you mention at the end, Barlow, was formerly a paleontologist (or at least heavily inspired by the field of paleontology in his work) and uses a lot of scientific theories and information we have on prehistoric and/or deep sea creatures to theorize what said aliens would look like. I think his dedication to the science itself is really telling in the way he approaches the idea of conservation for conservation's sake, in addition to making his paintings really fucking dope. b) i've seen some of your videos before but i can't particularly remember how much you source other folks, but i was going to suggest if you were to do something revolving around colonialism/indigenous issues, that plugging/sourcing some indigenous writers and critics would be really good. obvsly you did your research, but i think some things require hearing from people have lived the effects of this kind of media representation, and there are many indigenous/Native creators who have really incredible work that's underappreciated. there's a lot to talk about in terms of Native caricatures in media for sure. 'Reel Injun' is a great documentary about it, the filmmaker, Neil Diamond, is Cree. this is a pretty long comment so sorry lmao, but overall i really enjoyed this video! i always hear jokes about the mediocrity of Avatar, so it's good to see some actual critiques of it, considering the sheer amount of exposure the movie got.
also OH MAN there is a lot to say about the fetishization of characters like neytiri and how that reflects the alarming amount of dehumanization and objectification of murdered and missing Indigenous women. there's a lot of shit that using Native allegories incorporates whether you want it to or not. you'd think other non-Native creators would learn to stop leaning on it as a neo-liberal crutch.
I interpreted that as just the humans painting a false picture of the Navi, going "look at how bad these aliens are treating us, what did we ever do to them?" which is something humans do a lot
It's interesting to note that James Cameron is Canadian and the reporting/police/military rhetoric here of indigenous protests and land protection has often called indigenous people terrorists
@@MysterySeeker That is exactly the point. It's akin to how oppressive forces want to paint those that they are oppressing as hostile and dangerous, and thus give more reason to use violence against them.
8:34 I agree. I also think Neytiri should have been the one to lead her people. You also might get more feedback about this if it didn’t flash for like half a second!
What exactly would that accomplish. Jake knew how both sides operated, and was capable of conquering Toruk, which is the ultimate sign of respect. It was established in the film that as he got more familiar with the terrain, he became resourceful and tactful in how to interact with the environments and creatures of Pandora.
She actually did lead it 🙄 She mobilized her people, using Jake (Toruk Makto) only as a tool. Jake, however, organized the attack since he was an ex-military and knew what they had to deal with when the humans attacked. And he wasn't even the hero in the end. Eowa and Pandora's ecosystem was. Jake was a single rack-wheel in the whole machine, this is what you guys don't seem to get.
Just rewatched this for the sake of it, and oh no I just realised something Avatar is related to Get Out, as in "having the superior mind of a white man, and the pure body of the native/other" kinda way...
I feel a little dirty about the fact that I loved this movie to pieces when it first came out, and not only thought of it as an enjoyable wish fulfillment fantasy, but actually felt like it had a good message with it's references to the Iraq war and such. I went back and watched it again a few years later and I got hit with the feeling that the movie was just self indulgent escapism for Americans who wish they could escape capitalism by moving to a really comfortable to live in rainforest where the animals are your friends and you can go swimming in a bioluminescent rave pool with an exotic beauty. The who escapist power fantasy aspect, even putting aside the problematic racist tropes, really knee caps any potential for meaningful messaging. I feel yucky for being so easily won over by it while being blissfully anaware of the problematic aspects of the movie. I am the gullible mindless consumer.
Hey, nothing wrong with enjoying dumb stuff every once in a while. As a kid, Phantom Menace and Alien vs. Predator were my two favorite movies. But yeah, oof, the contradictory themes tho. Also, your avatar is giving me mad Brood War nostalgia. Guess I know how I'm spending my evening!
it's one thing to enjoy it, I enjoy all sorts of shallow indulgent nonsense, but another thing to think it is substantively good (which I did, at first). I was a major starcraft nerd when I chose this avatar... kerrigan was a favorite female power fantasy of mine too XD
TBH, if you gave me 6 months in the middle of nowhere with nothing but an exotic but still (conventionally) beautiful 'not-human' female to keep me company... I'd have to think about it really hard. I mean I can't just say I'd say yes or no right here, but I'd still have to consider it...
Thanks for the video. Avatar is one of my favorite films. The escapism and wish for a simpler life is real here, and alluring. It has always been a sort of guilty pleasure to enjoy because of its many problematic elements. You expressed those problems accurately and succinctly.
Your relationship change for Jake and his brother would have made for a far more satisfying character arc. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be a reveal. If you make that the cause of his brothers death, you could have Jake know it from the beginning and have it give him a far more negative view on the Na'vi from the get go. It would also establish a much more understandably strained relationship between him and Sigourney Weaver's character from the outset. With her afraid his hostility will jeopardize her mission. Then have his growth come from discovering who his brother really was (Let him find his logs and let us see them with him). Have him learn how his brother saw the Na'vi in a much more sympathetic and appreciative way. Have that view of the Na'vi culture reshape how Jake views them as well. Either way he would now have a more defined character arc and real conflict as he grows to side with the Na'vi. As it stands now he just goes from indifference to zealot with little actual change or reflection.
Love the armchair criticism, Professor Neckbeard. I do like that idea of how he changes his view of the Navi, but that is already in the movie to some degree. His introduction to Pandora was a rough one and was a bad impression. Charged by a giant rhino and then chased by the apex predator, only to later be attacked by the wolves. Not a rosy start. However, as he gets introduced to the Navi and learns how they operate, he begins to change his view of Pandora. What started as a ignorant view based on fear gradually changed into him recognizing the beauty and value of the life present on Pandora.
As a white person who’s writing a novel about humans messing up earth and trying to take over another planet, this video was incredibly helpful in the way of “what not to do”. Thanks!
This review made me realize that we DO need more giant mechs pulling out knives in cinema. Thanks for that trenchant observation. I'm sure there was some meaningful stuff on colonization and preserving things for their own sake independent of our egoistic desires, but really, more mechs and more knives, Hollywood.
1) Mmmm. Cat people. 💙 2) This film didn't have an original bone in it's body. I've read this exact story (boy meets gaia world, falls in love, takes over, kicks everyone else off) at least a dozen times. James Cameron's version comes off poorly thought out but SO, SO SHINY! (Yes, I love cliches. So, so, much. I revel in b-grade YA stuff. Twilight was middling. ) 3) White savior is just a flavor of what you get when the Chosen One naritive meets culture. Any culture. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter if the protagonist isn't a white man. The One is always, somehow, Superior to whatever culture they take over. Of course, having your "culture" be a loose amalgamation of what muricans think of when you say "native" doesn't help. 4) Admiting that I love cliches, tropes, and shiny colors, here are a few things I wish could have been adressed. ~planets have more than one climate. The moment scifi acknowledges this, I will rejoice. ~Jake stepping down as leader. The release of his shiny lugia is mentioned so briefly that most people missed it, and this symbolic release of power is never proven. Three hour movie, I know, but it they could have done it. ~ maybe I saw a different release, but I never saw much of earth. The first I saw of Jake's wheelchair was when he disembarked the shuttle. Way better beginning, but hey, Lucas made unneeded lore alterations, so let's all! ~We never see how the naavi react to Jake's legs. They live on a sentient, all- encompassing gaia world, but they're no stranger to war. How would those with access to body swapping magic see it? A weakness? A battle scar? Would Neytiri be upset, or proud, or would she react at all? I guess that would have taken effort to give the Naavi culture actual depth. Thbbbbt. Anyway, thanks for reading this. Hope you like.
The discovery channel documentary film you talked about has a very weird tone as a result of the explorers being robots. Like, these are state of the art AI who are interacting with alien life, its surreal in a lot of aspects, especially if the Earth is also dying at the same time. What hit me the most is when one of them powers down after being attacked, and the aliens have a hard time conceiving of them as being 'alive,' the robots are just as alien as the aliens.
Hot take but it's not actually true that humans have always genocided and warred and never had somewhat peaceful contact with other nations. For one thing, many of the people colonized by the Europeans had been met long before then, so it wasn't a first encounter. The Native Americans were the exception to that. You could also look to Native America and see locations like Pueblo Bonito where many different cultures brought sacred ritual items, making the city a sort of cultural hub. Trade and shared knowledge has influenced human history quite a lot. So there's actually kind of a problem with taking it to be human nature or the nature of sentient life that everyone will act like white Europeans under mercantilism/capitalism.
I don't see you giving a good sample of that. As far im aware, whenever a nation was confident that someone sufficiently different looking could be conquered or exploited, someone came up with an excuse to do so. I'm eager to hear if theres a different thing that happened but. Usually nations that trade peacefully are those that don't feel like they could conquer.
You're saying "Make[CountryName] great again", and promising to built a structure to isolate the country from others, while making the outsiders pay for it..." *ISN'T a good speech?* XP
The main things I've managed to remember about this movie involved how Cameron went on about how they put in so much work to make every lifeform on Pandora appear to be naturally part of the same ecosystem, but then the Naavi were the only vertebrate-analogues on Pandora to not be hexapodal and to not have spiracles at the base of the neck. And no signs of vestigial structures indicating those parts being lost or absorbed. Basically marking the Naavi as being something completely non-native from the perspective of a Pandoran evolutionary system just so we could have sexy blue cat people. Also that it was a played straight White Savior story. But now I have even more details for that second one than I did before.
I and the few subset of people who weren't distracted by Avatar's graphics had come to the understanding that Avatar was just a sci-fi retelling of Dances With Wolves a while ago and left it at that. It's good to see a more nuanced look at it. It may seem late right now, but seeing as how Cameron is planning on making FOUR of these things, it'll never really too late, and it would serve well to investigate the first movie to see if it really deserves it.
The only thing I remember from this movie is thinking “this is literally Pocahontas for grownups” the entire time. It actually made me aware of the white saviour trope, so I gotta give it credit for that
great video. now I'm just wondering how much more I'd care about Avatar's story if it didn't star a white guy and instead the protag was an actual native ...a story that starts with the focus on an alien planet, and THEN humans show up to try to bully their way in, honestly sounds interesting to me!
just watched this video after watching the sequel and thinking that the fact that Jake’s authority is still completely unquestioned throughout it keeps the film close to that white savior trope
Papyrus font, also known as The Indian Font, is most often used by non-Indigenous people to to promote Indigenous-inspired/appropriated works and products. Avatar is basically the health-food-store-packaged-white-sage of films.
Thank you for putting into words some of my frustration with the "white savior" trope. It's honestly something that I'd hadn't thought much about, or dismissed when brought up, until I started seeing more shows made by people of color (Get Out, Selma, Underground, American Gods) that broke away from it. I suddenly realized there were other, MUCH better options. I want to see more stories break away from that because it's a biased (and just boring) cliche at this point.
I actually rather liked Valerian but I've come to terms with the fact that I may be the only one X3;; Either way, great video! I've watched it a couple times now, but I'm trying to make more of an effort to like and leave comments. I really enjoy your channel and I think you deserve every boost in the metrics you can get =3
I love that you used the XCOM 2 Background music midway through the video after you mentioned the Avatar Project in a hamfisted joke reference. It both works well for the moment _and_ drives into the reference.
My main gripe with Avatar is that when you boil the movie down, it feels unfocused. When you look at, let's say Disney's Pocahontas, (regardless of historical inaccuracy) you know why Radcliff is set in his ways. He thinks the Natives are savages and that they're secretly hoarding gold, he's motivated by greed. What do the bad guys in Avatar want? Something called "Unobtanium". Really. That's what they all agreed on. Okay, stupid name but fine, what does it do, why is it so valuable? Well it's vaguely said that it has something to do with providing or generating energy because Earth's resources are dwindling. James Cameron wanted the Na'vi to be a fully realized culture. Their own language, how they function, their beliefs, and their own music that James wanted to sound "Alien". But when he was given that, he rejected all but a small amount for being "too alien", feeling audiences wouldn't understand. I could go on but I'd be writing a novel so I'll just say that Avatar as a film feels very hollow. On the outside it looks beautiful, the environments, the creatures, etc, but when you dig deeper, there's nothing there. It's the same story we've seen a thousand times, with a new coat of paint. What hurts more is there are deleted scenes that actually fleshed out certain characters more and would've benefited the story, but were most likely cut for runtime, so we're left with cartoony, 2 dimensional bad guys, and what's worse, making Jake the savior even though Grace committed her life to the Na'vi.
Everything about "Avatar I & II" is magnificent. It is a testament to cinematic ability. Everything that is...except the STORY. If they had set aside just enough of Avatar's HUGE budget to pay a competent writer for a story that isn't a retread of every "white savior" movie ever made. Btw, "Avatar" doesn't handle the time lag of space travel very well at all.
This was such a great analysis. All I can think of contributing to the conversation is that my mom once went on a date with "Mr. Avatar". She said he was incredibly nice, and incredibly blue.
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Here’s my obligatory Q&A covering some of the big questions from the video;
*So you think it’s bad because a white man does a nice thing for non-white people?*
That’s an extremely reductive way to look at what I’m saying - like I say, I don’t even think the white saviour is *the* problem with the white saviour trope. It’s more the consequential minimizing and infantilizing of indigenous peoples which is the problem. Think of it like the problem with “SJW pandering”, except towards the majority demographic (ha! Like that ever happens!) Also I don’t dislike the movie because of that, I dislike the movie because it’s kind of boring and predictable.
*Can the white saviour trope be used well?*
That would depend on where you draw the line on what designates a ‘white saviour’. I think having an anglo-european lead character who does not minimize the achievements of the minority characters they are fighting for and alongside would be cool (the new Wolfenstein games are a perfect example of this), but you may not consider that a ‘white saviour’ at that point. Maybe a more traditional ‘white saviour’ would work if it was specifically about critiquing that mindset. Or hey, maybe it’s just time to have a story about the minority experience led by people who have actually lived those experiences! There’s a lot to think about.
*Actually it’s just a movie about the environment, not about colonialism.*
Stories can be about multiple things, and the colonial aspects of Avatar are not the least bit subtle. You’re trying to ‘depoliticize’ an overtly political text.
*Did you see Jenny Nicholson’s video on the Avatar theme park?*
Yep! Jenny’s great, and without her vid I probably wouldn’t have mentioned it in this video.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for watching!
What is that hilarious "Blue" spoof sung by goofy you used?
Jack Saint
Jake Sully doesn't colonise the Navi through soft / smart power as this would imply that he could bend its society to his will. He isn't taking them in a direction that they wouldn't take themselves. Unlike the RDA he isn't there to exploit their natural resources. If anything the Navi have colonised him, and persuaded him to join their culture. By no means does Jake Sully conquer the Navi. LOL.
You make one crucial mistake in your video: It is Eywa who ends up saving the Na'vi, not Jake Sulley.
It took me 9 years to see this movie, and 10 minutes to figure out the plot. The visuals are very pretty, and the only reason I actually finished the film. I totally agree with your statements and analysis. Although I will confess to actually enjoying the Avatar theme park. In my defense, it was the coolest part of the whole park by about 20 degrees Fahrenheit. And it had more benches.
ElizIndRhythm
The _AVATAR_ theme park looked like they had really made an effort about it, with those floating islands being the most impressive thing and the bioluminescent boat ride being a close second.
So I'm doing a masters in conservation biology you've touched on something that is a huge problem in this field. People choose what animals to conserve often because of their own wish fulfillment. If funding was directed towards the species that had the most ecological importance, then conservation of all species would be much more successful. But species of ecological importance often look like beetles or some plain looking fish. Giant pandas have almost no ecological importance, meaning, no other species rely on them to survive. But a disproportionate amount of funding goes to them at the expense of keystone species . All this so people can feel like a hero. Panda deserve to be saved because of what they do for us apparently, while *obscure beetle species* maybe very important for the environment but they don't make us happy so they do not deserve it :/
Save the animals. But only the cute ones.
I would be interested to know which obscure beetle and fish species need the most conservation effort.
Are there any charities/funds that do prioritize by ecological importance? This is really interesting
easily solved.
go on thumblr and look for good amateur manga artists.
ask them to draw said beetles and fishes as anime girls.
repeat every couple months when the fads starts getting slow.
badabing badaboom you've saved biodiversity. feel free to mention me in your thesis.
@@npc6817 ^ This but unironically
The bird thing seriously frustrated me. Is his old one lonely now? Will it die of loneliness? Can he still ride both? Is the old one mad at him now? I care about this way too much
Edit: guys stop taking this seriously, I didn't know he lets the red one go at the end
SAME. is his old bird just gonna follow him around waiting to be ridden again? oh my god what if it dies alone while waiting for jake to call for it I'm gonna cry
Well... you DO have a Homestuck Avatar... though your name is not at all a valid name...
The old bird is the villain in Avatar 2
I remember he had to break the bond with the Phoenix/Dragon-thing because the battle was over.
The Toruk, the big red one, doesn't bond for life, the small blur ones do. I'm pretty sure the whole brain connection means the little one will understand.
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say; a lot of the issues within the third act would have been elevated if Neytiri's character arc was changed slightly and she and Sully's roles switched. If she had a few more scenes wherein she was struggling to live up to the hopes of her father it would cement her anxiety about becoming chief of her tribe. Hell, maybe she doesn't have a bird/dragon because she can't complete the trial or she failed the trial before. This clearly gives her an underdog story, mirroring Sully's at the beginning of the film.
The biggest change would be that _Neytiri_ would ride the big dragon-bird-thing, not Sully. _She_ would become the chief of her people and lead them to victory with the aid of Sully and the other defecting humans. Maybe Sully's the one on the ground while she's in the air, maybe they win with a combination of both technology and nature. This change still allows Sully to have his big fight at the end (which already takes place on the ground). You still get the wish fulfilment of being on a cool alien planet, you still get to keep the big sweeping battles and the dragons and such, but the story is subtly no longer about Sully being the only one to save the aliens. :/ It's not perfect but I think it would have been a lot better then what the third act ended up being.
Plus, it was _her_ ancestors that road the thing! Jake just wanted to fly, and he got that. He should've just bonded with his bird more. Didn't Neytiri's die or something? Wouldn't it make the most sense that she reconnects with her ancestors through that creature since her home tree was destroyed?
@@muntu1221 Ah, another piece that makes thematic sense! You're right Muntu!!! Another huge theme in the film that kinda misses the mark is familial connects and personal identity; Jake would find his identity through the passing of his brother, Neytiri through her ancestors. Both fufiling what their family could not. Honestly the more I think about it the more mad I become 😂
I was thinking along the exact same lines, having Neytiri take on the role of big-bird-rider makes more sense given her ancestor’s connection to one, and could have been a more impactful and fulfilling character arc for her. Plus, having her unite the Na’vi goes a long way toning down the white savior elements. Honestly I just want to pretend this version of Avatar exists because it would be a more enjoyable movie.
@@BasiliskKingOfSerpents I highly agree! This is a childhood movie for me; I'd watch repeatedly and I have a lot of fond memories of it, so I don't think it'll ever leave that special nostalgic place in my heart... but even as a kid I thought Neytiri was robbed and that she should have gotten the big dragon XD
I think the problem is that the white savior trope is also a very male-centered stereotype, for while there are exceptions, the usual trope is that the male hero falls in love with the chieftains daughter, and winning the "indian princess" are really just there to be just another mark of success for the hero on par with taming the biggest beast or besting the native's greatest warrior. Just goes to show how shallow and cliched the movie ended up being in the third act.
"Hello I am here to save you, do not resist"
We will teach them our peaceful ways... BY FORCE!!!
“We did it Patrick, we saved the city!”
@Kurt Vinlander bold of you to assume it is not already their motto
@@oof-rr5nf Come now, everyone knows that it is "Just try to stop us."
Except he didn't save them.
Eowa and Pandora's ecosystem did. 🙄
don’t you hate it when people view you as generally untrustworthy, so you have to go out and get the big bird to regain there trust
I facepalmed so damn hard when the guy returned with the Big Birb, and and he'd suddenly gained the respect of all the Na'vi... Like... Why must you be so shallow? Did you suddenly forget about the fact that he'd betrayed just a day or two ago...? .-.
@@diddles3383 He didn't betray the Na'vi, but the RDA.
It seems like everybody here didn't get the point .
The lead being a caucasian man actually does work in the movie's favor. The film is about reconnecting with nature and how we as individuals would benefit from that.
It wouldn't make much sense thematically if the lead was a Native American since Jake, a former marine that fought on behalf of a nation that does not value its nature, relinquishes his attatchment and loyalty to a force that rebukes the idea of reconnecting with nature.
@@truedarkness4052 and it's that reconnection to nature, as a facet of the novel Savage trope which is the problem.
i’d like to give cameron the big “bird” (middle finger) cause he’s a total egotistical prick.
*their
Edit: Thank you loremasters, I get it. The Toruk is a player and gets around. Sully just had to show he was mr big dick to the wood elves before returning to faithful Ikran.
The saddest part for me was that he abandoned his bird for a "cooler one", even though the original did its best to help :( I actually like when characters aren't abandoned like tools.
It's like when you abandon your Yoshi to jump further and Yoshi just falls into nothing in Super Mario World
Also he lets the bird red bird go at the end of the movie so I guess he gets his original one back? But it's funny to me cus those things apparently eat navi all the time so it would suck if it ate his girlfriend a few years down the line.
Yeah, that was pretty shitty of him.
What a hot take.
I always just assumed that riding that banshee was a social way to get people to join his cause. It makes him seem powerful, and since the banshee have to allow you to bond with them it was like a mutual agreement between the two
As a native American this film made me very uncomfortable and I'm so glad someone is finally talking about it! It was one of those movies where if you criticized it then you were stupid and just didn't get it (much like Rick and Morty now). Thank you for speaking so eloquently about how I have felt for 10 years now.
i'm pretty sure criticizing Rick and Morty is mainstream now.
Im also native and I remember my dad was pissed about this movie. He would say, “Another movie where the natives can’t save themselves and have to have the white man come teach us our own culture.” I honestly regret wasting three hours of my life watching this piece of crap.
yeah we've all been watching this movie for our entire lives under capitalism and neo/ historical colonialism.
Same with the mainstream usage of "savage" and "chief" it makes me sick not to mention when I was in high school and I told people about my Oglala Lakota ancestory on my mom's side and my classmates started calling me "tanto" and "chief" not to mention all those shitty old racist Clintwood and John Wayne westerns I often see playing for the residents at the nursing home I work at genocidal othering and racism is pervasive unfortunately like a lot of shitty biases under capitalism, yeah Avatar really sucks.
* Clint Eastwood
So uhhhhh... Just realized, "Get Out" puts the whole "human minds in Na'vi bodies" deal in a whole different perspective. They may be lab-grown here but I still can't shake it.
Mr. Lock nice avatar and great take, these stories are definitely in conversation
Mr. Lock If anything, it’s worse in Avatar.
At least in Get Out the minorities are “admired” to the point of dehumanization and fetishization for possessing what white people consider to be “rare and attractive traits”.
In Avatar? You can make that shit in a fucking beaker. Ouch.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick I see what you mean, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's worse in Avatar. In Get Out the crime is also that they're literally stealing another person's body. And since a "sliver" of them remains, the victim is condemned then to be stuck watching someone else control and impersonate them.
In Avatar, there's still things to be said about the idea of being able to just enter into and dominate a culture by artificially growing another body like theirs (this gets even more problematic when applying it to humans impersonating other humans than another species entirely) and beating them at everything they spent their lives doing. But, they at the very least aren't stealing Na'vi bodies or condemning sentient minds to a fate arguably worse than death.
Mr. Lock But really, is there any difference?
Either way, minorities are being worn as costumes so that white people can infiltrate their culture and exploit them to the point of obsolescence.
I would say so. You're not wrong, but the added aspect of completely losing bodily autonomy tips the scales in my mind.
im getting desensitized to weird youtube lighting. i was 10 minutes in when i realized Jack was blue?
Same
i never even noticed
I only noticed when he said “an elaborate kind of blue face” and I went back to check if it was always there because I thought he only used it for that line.
Literally same 😂
♪You'd think the only people that are people
are the people that are not tall and blue
But when you connect your hair veins to a space horse
you'll learn the things you never knew you never knew♪
I actually think Pocahontas did this concept better than Avatar. Think about it, there are only two or three characters with black and white morality, both the colonists and the natives end up villainizing the other side of the conflict, and John Smith doesn't save the natives in the end. Say what you will about the rest of that movie, but that's something that Disney got right. Also, can't there be a story in which a white person joins a tribe of indigenous people and just becomes an ordinary member?
@@andysee6996 Any movie that tries to make us see Natives and colonists as on equal footing is gross. You can easily find resources online that show most Natives hate Pocahontas as a film with a burning passion. I mean, I know I certainly do. I have a softness for it only because growing up it was the only film I knew of that showed people who were supposed to be like me but outside of that.. yeah, it's disgusting. It whitewashes a story of a young Native girl being horrifically abused and makes us see it all through rose colored glasses. I really wouldn't even give it a passing compliment tbh.
Oh my god
god, I love this
There's some alternate story here where Jake is explicitly a manipulative bastard and his ability to form multiple life-long bonds is hailed as a great capacity for love, when in fact it's because humans are two-faced.
He has a crisis of conscience at the last second (end of act one) but the Navi can't imagine you could love someone and still betray them so to them he's above suspicion. Neytiri is the only one who realises and considers him an actual monster, but she needs their chosen one narrative to unite her people and fight back.
We end up with a story focusing on the nature of humanity that asks if we're worth saving in spite of our flaws.
if jake sully was a female character he'd be called a mary sue
Bold of you to assume I don't call Jake Sully a Mary Sue
Also right of you, I don't use the term for anyone
BUT IF I DID
All female characters are Mary Sue. ALL OF THEM.
Yeah, since time unmemorial. Like Yokasta, Oedipus mother. All plot converge in her favor :/
But being a mary sue is not inherently bad
I mean, I know reactionaries will use any term in the wrong way willingly to justify themselves, but this joke kind of validates this flawed understanding of tropes and archetypes, like saying this character is a mery sue/Gary stu is somehow a valid critique without taking into account how that decision actually affects the story being told
Jake can't walk. I think that disqualifies him from being a good at everything Mary sue
Y’know what would have made the colonialist undertones of this movie so much less prominent? Just make Jake a Native American.
It would immediately give him a VERY strong reason to empathize with the Na’vi, and a believably internalized understanding of the typical dynamics of tribal society.
Not only that, but it could provide some social commentary about how native veterans can often be treated in this country.
Bam. I got rid of the white savior narrative. It was THAT easy, Hollywood.
The trouble there is you would have to have at least one Native American actor in Hollywood
EDIT: There are obviously many extremely talented Native actors trying to find success in the entertainment industry! Apparently in 2019 I decided to say "Hollywood would have to stop excluding Native artists first" in the most obtuse way possible lol
Jack Saint
...
Can’t argue with that.
Now I'm picturing the movie with Jake played by Adam Beach. His last Hollywood blockbuster role was being wasted in "Suicide Squad".
"Here comes Slipknot, the man who can climb anything."
Tuckerscreator Ladies and gentlemen, the biggest Native American role in a Hollywood Blockbuster in years...Slipknot.
That could work, but if you don't tweak a few part of the plot, it'll look like projecting their fantasy on populations that fell victimes to it.
am i the only one whos bothered, that every animal has six limbs, but the navi only have four?
Yeah man! And not only that, but they had bilateral hair dicks, extra eyes, and nostrils on their chest, too. The dramatic anatomical differences were super distracting, and made it really obvious that they were going for sexy space cats instead of a convincing member of the Pandoran ecosystem.
I was the weird kid that talked about that when people in school talked about the dilm
The females shouldn't have breasts either, but the design team decided to add them for their best attempt at visual "no homo." Because females are only REALLY female when they have obvious mammaries and a flat chested alien with a woman's voice is too easy to mistake for a male 🙄
@@n.l.g.6401 This is why Half-Life is the superior franchise.
Hollywood doesn't support beastiality.
Therefore make the main plot aliens as humanoid as possible.
That's why District 9 is the superior movie. They had xenosex adressed and established (interspecies prostitution) at least.
What annoys me most about Pandora is that the Na'vi don't look like they belong in the ecosystem, physiologically. On Earth, the tetrapedal body plan was sorted out early in land-dwelling animal evolution, and is only deviated from by atrophy, to my knowledge. Every non-Na'vi animal on Pandora is an hexaped with chest-mounted breathing holes, two sex-braids, and generally four eyes. What happened in their genus's history to make the Na'vi so different?
This has been bothering me for years and I just left a similar comment elsewhere. Solidarity.
Also the Na’vi have hair and nipples... are they mammals??! What are the odds of that?!
leXie Well, they’ve gotta be fuckable for the audience to give a shit about them.
It’s the same reasoning that gave those prawn things from District 9 giant puppy-dog eyes. They can’t be TOO alien, or else the audience would want them dead too.
Sad, ain’t it?
uh it’s called lazy character design+making the audience sympathize w/ them more easily bc they look like us (which is understandable in a way but like,, if ur gonna make aliens...make ‘em alien yknow?)
Yeah, they tried to imply that the Na'vi's genetic ancestors gradually lost their hexaped limbs (the alien lemurs seen briefly in the film have their double arms fused together at the elbow). But it felt like trying to have their cake and eat it too, in having hexaped creatures everywhere but then the Na'vi being the only tetrapeds. The ol' "but they have to look just like humans so that the audience will want to **** the princess". :p
Okay now I won't watch a RUclips video that doesn't have a pee break.
I'm one of the approximately 10 still active Avatar fans and... i'm suffering..... my brain contains all the names of all the characters and animals and plants and even parts of the na'vi language..... someone help me
i'm sorry
Have you tried Lord of the Rings or Star Trek? If you're going to learn a fantasy language, it might as well be a fantasy language other people speak.
@@zotaninoron3548 I've actually been meaning to learn Esperanto. First I'll tackle Russian, though
@@peterprime2140 lemme be real, neytiri was my first gay crush AND i'm a furry, of course i'd bang a na'vi
Poppy genuinely curious... why?
Neytiri should have caught the big bird. After her father dies, she should have stepped up as leader but is shot down due to her being tainted by her relationship with the liar Jake Sully. Have Jake Sully return and try to warn about the upcoming attack and offer to help. Have him lay out his case that he and his friends can point out the weak spots they know about as traitors, but they are pushed out and untrusted. Have Neytiri then argue to listen to Jake and have some elders say "This is why you will never be leader." Then have her go get the big bird. She comes back, become leader, unites the clan and frees Jake (and the others) saying she wants their help and knowledge so she can save her people. Not perfect but better, and gives at least the hint of a character arc for Neytiri.
That's honestly a GREAT suggestion that does a lot to add nuance to the native characters, and still allows Jake to be considered "valuable" in the story while giving Neytiri and the others the autonomy they deserve. My immediate reflex was to think of how writers handled the uneasy alliance between the more technologically advanced Sky People with the more versatile and environmentally savvy Grounders in the second/third season of the 100. There was a level of mutual respect and dependence on the other that emphasized both groups knowledges and cultures. (Totally separate topic but still.)
Glad you aren't going into screenwriting, since this isn't the main point of the movie.
The point of that scene was to prove that he was worthy to still be apart of the Omaticaya tribe after he became an official member. What is the point if Neytiri just conquers Toruk? I mean, she even saved Jake's ass at the end of the film. Forgot that part?
What's up with these kids not realizing that the film isn't trying to promote white savior tropes, but instead subverts it and becames a story about an individual realizing that there is value in connecting with the natural world.
@@truedarkness4052 Where is the subversion? I only see the total colonization aka total opposite
. Guys, ONLY MEN CAN BE THE CHEIF IN THE TRIBES AND ONLY MEN CAN RIDE THE LAST SHADOW DUE TO THE PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY THE NAVII LIVE IN!!!!
Also banshees choose their riders. The last shadow was always after Jake.
The Na'vi don't capture a Toruk. They wait for Toruk to choose one of them.
That's why Jake technically cheated and kept it secret.
On top of that, not-so-subtly telling people with disabilities how much better, happier and Less Corrupt they'd be if their disability was suddenly Fixed and they got a New, Not-Broken Body is pretty... yikes.
Except people with disabilities actually wish they didnt have them and people have worked for decades to improve upon any shortcomings they have.
Why do you sound like medical advancement and people overcoming disabilities is some gross thing ?
@@james501001 Little more to it than that. His disability and character flaws seem to go together (and go away together). So, problematic.
While I get what you're trying to say, I worry about taking that too far: pretending that having a not broken body WOULDN'T make them happier. Jake suffered a traumatic injury. Pain and loss in the most literal, physical sense. The character is flat as paper, but his disability being cured is just part of the heavy handed wish-fulfillment at the end. For the typically abled, just a happy ending, for those who feel lack, an escapist vision.
Am I rambling?
David M That’s a serious oof right there.
Yeah, the "magical cure" narrative is something a lot of disabled people have a problem with - the idea that a happy ending for us always involves becoming abled, rather than just our accommodation needs being better met, or other conflicts in our lives resolved.
Y'know, in 9th grade social studies, we took like a couple days to watch Avatar precisely because of its "anti-colonial" aspects. I don't recall if there was any mention at all of the white saviour stuff at the time. In thinking about it, this trope is ripe for variation. I'd be very interested in a story where a white saviour shows up and just makes things worse and gets kicked out of the indigenous society, or maybe one where a highly advanced alien species becomes the "white saviour" to the affluent white "westerners" of today. Good stuff!
That latter idea is called Childhood's End.
@@animekid9000 I shudder to consider the implications of that on today's society if we take the ending Childhood's End into account.
@@animekid9000 that book messed me up for a week. Ye gods.
@@animekid9000 I read the wiki because of this comment. I don't think I could stomach the book
@@hildegardvonbingen9092 I guess if your worldview is completely out of touch with reality, then yes, Avatar could be interpreted as being anti-white.
Avatar is just a standard isekai anime, prove me wrong.
There's no harem tho
@@riley8385 Fair point
@@riley8385 But there is. At least one horse, two birds and one catgirl for the normies.
@@riley8385 Wait till the next movie, if it ever comes out.
Hmm. Is isekai white savior then? Asian savior? Interesting to think about.
If anyone’s interested, there’s a great book called Postcolonial Theory and Avatar by Gautam Basu Thakur which touches on many similar issues to this video while, at the same time, giving a decent and engaging intro to postcolonial film criticism.
also not to understate the weird racial tones of the bodyswap thing but as a disabled person the whole "they finally embrace with their natural bodies and still recognize each others' souls; then ten minutes later they let his original disabled body just die" is uh. a choice
That made me SO uncomfortable. Good thing he wasn't mentally disabled because he'd have to throw his whole himself out to stop being disabled. :p HATE it when movies magically 'fix' disabled people as a reward
You have no idea how completely I had forgotten Sam Worthington's face.
I could've sworn this movie starred Chris Pratt
"remember sam worthingtons face" damn I thought watching this video would be easy
It's easy for since I watched the Clash of Titans reboot a lot when I was younger.
Don't judge me, I'm easily impressed.
I was not expecting "Valarian" to be the expensive sci-fi movie people forgot about... Which means I forgot about it.
I was thinking "John Carter" or "Jupiter Ascending" or "Mortal Engines" or ...
Nobody will *ever* forget Jupiter Jones.
@@iamwontolla Saturn who now?
Wontolla omg i watched that movie recently and tbh it was kinda stupid but it was really fun like....for some reason Eddie Redmayne was there and he was so fucking weird looking ?
Also Wrinkle in Time
I really liked Mortal Engines, I stopped watching A Wrinkle In Time when the lady turned into a flying cabbage...
Something I realised when watching this is that Jake's dissatisfaction with modernity is a pretty middle-class ableist view of the world
He doesn't like how pretty much everything is at his his finger-tips, he doesn't have to struggle for food and he can stay out all night and get black out drunk (something that's good really but it framed as bad because he wakes up sad on the floor and it's raining) and he much prefers to have a life where he literally has to hunt every day to survive. He's just a super boring generic person who has no hobbies so doing literally anything routinely is super attractive to him, and so hunting seems great, but what if they have a bad winter or they suffer a drought or sickness due to lack of storage technology or vaccines, suddenly struggling to survive becomes harder and less of just something fun to do and then he'd probably start to have second thoughts about choosing to live in a society that is relatively primitive.
He loves how in his Avatar he can run about and hunt, but they frame that as a critique on modernity, as symbolism that he's trapped, but apparently if he just raised money he could buy himself new legs (I may be wrong though, I may have misinterpreted some of the lines), but overall at least he can survive and not face serious struggles and have fun staying out all night getting black out drunk. If you look at the natives, they don't seem to have any disabled members of their community, no one with special needs, no one who has conditions that keep from being fit and thin, everyone is able, and sure an in-universe explanation may be because they're species don't have such issues, but it's seeming far more likely that, as they're relatively primitive, they would let the babies with such conditions just die. If a native has an accident and becomes physically disabled then they're probably left for dead. So its really Jake wanting to live in a society where he is able and the disabled are left to die rather than where he is disabled and well-looked after, which is pretty awfully selfish of him.
God this movie, in trying to be progressive and positive, is super backwards!
Pro-colonialist pretending to be Anti-colonialist, Ableist pretending to be anti-ableist, individualism pretending to be collectivism, and on and on and on.
It's a common trope, that one of "simpler, harder life is more valuable than a modern one" that makes me facepalm about Star Trek Insurrection and the end of the newfangled Battlestar Galactica.
I like having a several-decade life expectancy, thanks.
And on that tangent, what are the humans who rebelled against the company going to do for air once theirs runs out? And food? And aren't there still like a decade's worth of ships inbound?
rejecting industrial society in favor of something different is largely a personal choice, my man
@Rockin' Roll Alcoholism =/= getting blackout drunk once. It's good in that it's a choice experience non-alcoholics do make and enjoy; when they don't stop making that choice, it becomes bad, and probably alcoholism. The movie presents Jake making that choice once, showing his freedom of doing it as bad, and then never touching or hinting at there being an alcoholism problem (which would be an ACTUAL problem). Associating it to alcoholism is reaching, as that wasn't in the movie.
@@Heimdal001 uhhh idk I've never *enjoyed* getting blackout drunk. I think OP's point was that it's better to be *able* to without being like devoured by bears while you're out.
that said, you'll still get robbed. and lots of indigenous folks would get blasted semi-regularly on stronger drugs than alcohol, so I don't think that's specifically a privilege of technology, or a great argument.
I know we're talking about a fictional alien culture here, but I feel like you're implying that pre-industrial human cultures generally abandoned or made no room for the people with disabilities, as if social Darwinism is baked into human nature or early human cultures somehow. which as far as I'm aware is totally historically inaccurate. homelessness-that thing where modern capitalist countries just abandon people with disabilities to suffer and die in plain view of everyone-didn't exist, at least in north-eastern native American tribes (tho I'm not like an expert on this so feel free to correct me). it was a widespread practice that everyone gets a home, food, and medicine, regardless of your ability to make a living for yourself. sure, this medicine did not include things like vaccines or insulin. but that doesn't mean that people with untreatable diseases we're just left to die-the only cultures I'm aware of doing this we're extremely militaristic and were basically trying to breed supersoldiers-it wasn't out of necessity but as part of a program of eugenics. and that's because "the strong live, the weak die" is not a fact of nature; it's a feature of capitalist & imperialist societies that only feed and clothe and treat people in order to work them to death.
I do think a major, unconscious element of Sully's (and by extension, the audience's) attraction to this alien culture is just that it is pre-capitalist. but most Americans don't have the framework to think about the social differences that way (and Avatar certainly doesn't provide it) so they translate this attraction thru familiar lenses like masculinity & Puritan values: enjoying the fruits of your labor (eating the food you hunt) becomes "simple living" or "good, honest hard work." the scene of him waking up after getting blackout drunk communicates how isolated he is, that everyone he was with just left him there, as opposed to the Navi who live communally, sleep in the same tree, etc.
I think a lot of people who are attracted to hunter-gatherer livelihoods and the like wouldn't want to give up like medicine or central heating if pressed-or, to the extent they did, you'd be right that they don't realize how brutal that would be or how many people would be disabled without those technologies. but there are elements of pre-capitalist cultures-like, the ones that result from their not-having-capitalism-which seem, to me, *obviously* preferable to the isolated, frightening, atomized life of late-capitalism.
obviously, this yearning for a return to some primitive state of being is also dangerous, undialectical, and can lead to right wing politics, but it's at least understandable and can be redirected towards productive ends, and is not, I don't think specifically a middle-class yearning.
I kind of want to see the opposite of Avatar. Where a injured alien takes control of a lab grown human and then becomes the god-king of Earth. Everyone just falls in love with her because she captures some maguffin.
It could be a him as well. Maybe the alien could be Christ. Or maybe the alien impregnates all the women in the world (as custom on his alien planet).
We wouldn't have that be a happy ending...
@@AntiFaGoat It could be framed as such. The End of Childhood is a book that manages that well.
you got yourself a bigger car, you're our leader now!
@@threadbearr8866 is that the book with the adaptation that has charles dance as a satan alien? cause i love/hated that series
@@aswertyuiol Yes. And it's Childhood's End. My bad.
one of the things that concerns me about this film is how it portrays disability, and nobody really talks about it. i'm a disabled dude, and i honestly love it, but the way most film portrays disability is as some sort of thing that makes a character useless, and i'm not talking just physically useless.
the whole "earn your legs back" and "get a new na'vi body because yours is shit" just made me feel extremely uncomfortable for reasons i can't really seem to express. and maybe this sounds nitpicky, but in a world with bad ass mechs and shit, wouldn't prosthetic robo-legs be like a standard thing? and we have a dude pushing himself around in a manual wheelchair that looks like it was manufactured in 2005? it just doesn't sit right with me. sully being disabled just seemed gross and unnecessary and i don't like how it was used as a plot device.
Considering the colonel promised him his legs back in their deal, I think it's implied people CAN get prosthetic robo-limbs in that world, but Jake couldn't afford them because he was poor due to his veteran status/alcoholism.
just remember that not all disabled people think like you and do want their legs back
@@Tea_Noirenot just implied. Jake says when they land on Pandora that he is unable to afford prosthetics on his veteran money
I watched Avatar many times and your summary of the plot felt completely new to me, I literally didn't remember a single detail of the plot.
Because it isn't important. The main point was to demonstrate that there is value in connecting with nature, and making the visuals spectacular and not focusing on the plot (because that's what online droolers care about) is the main way to do it
I only remember the 3D.
I tried watching it three times and 2 of them I just fell asleep and one of them I got so drunk I didn't remember watching it so this is the truth to anyone who either couldn't afford/give a shit to watch in theaters in 3D (like me) or was too young to see "the spectacle of Avatar in IMAX" which was the main draw of the film at the time
@@truedarkness4052why do keep copy-pasting the same comment everywhere?😂
have to say, although i can see how bland the characters are in it now, when the movie came out i was so young that i hadn't seen those tropes for a thousand times and it actually seemed all new cx
hollywood must know they can pull this off every generation eh
Lol that is how kids movies get away with it
I try to experience tropes like new every time I come across them. It's more fun that way. Plenty of time to be cynical later.
I don’t remember the first minutes of the film . Especially the Scenes at earth .Maybe it’s a different version of the movie but I can’t seem to find it
Same, I have absolutely no memories of ever seeing earth in the movie, I saw it in Paris so maybe there a different versions depending on where it's projected?
@@Nomillnad It's from a Director's Cut that was released a very short time after the film was a big hit.
@@animekid9000 That thing has a director's cut?!
Oh thank god. I thought I was going insane for a second because I was genuinly confused by a lack of memories of these scenes...
Me too, I thought it just started with his brother being dead
Avatar was a movie that started out great until people noticed the many, _many_ cracks in its facade.
Oh, but what a facade.
I love this movie, as I love every movie where humanity looses and is exposed as the nature destruction bastards they are.
But it would have been even more effectful if Jake sully would have been fully capable of walking and still decided to give humanity the finger and join the Na'vi.
what if we kissed 😚
in the amoebic sea😳😳
And we were both humans???
the amoebic sea would eat you both :-p
patricio torre hot 🥵
Apparently the Disney Avatar theme park just totally 100% goes hand in hand with the whole appropriation and colonization thing. You can buy your own beads and hair extensions and the human workers/cast convince you that the navi are Super happy you're here
The movie lost me when Jake was sent to the Navi knowing an invasion was coming and instead of telling them, he goes through an induction ceremony and then screws his Navi girlfriend. “Once I’ve earned their trust, then they’ll listen to me.” No, you idiot, hiding things from them is what prevents you from earning their trust.
He knew telling them was pointless, as nothing would get them to move and telling them would mean his idyllic new life would come to an end. It was selfish but understandable.
Yeah, that's the whole point? Jake was being selfish and trying to lead both lives as if they wouldn't collide. He even mentions how living in his avatar seems more real to him. "Like in there is the real world and out here is the dream", while forgetting that both worlds are equally real, and his refusal to face up to this causes everything to blow up in his face and causes massive casualties to the Na'vi.
Jack, something must be said about your hair.
It's amazing. You should just make a video set to your hair all by itself.
He could! If he laid on the floor with his hair haloed out-- Oh! Remember when he did that flowers crown thing? He could have flowers in his hair! HECK YEAH! (semi-related this makes me want to do a fan-art of Jack Saint with that flower crown, because I loved that look)
The worst part of the movie Valerian is that when I was doing a project on valerian root and I had sift through the movie promotion to find information on drug interactions.
Ouch, yeah that sounds like a headache. Seems like it was a cool project though. I love valerian root and I'm bummed that it's been taken out of herbal teas. Unless you learned something really negative about it?
@@kouusa no not in particular. Just keep in mind that since it's considered a supplement it's not as regulated as drugs. Also herbs can have interactions with medications (even if they are in tea form) so make sure it's safe for you to take.
@@latesummerlife Good to know. Yeah, just because something is herbal does not mean you don't give it the same carefulness you would regular medicine. St. John's Wort is the hallmark of that. Funny enough though is all the times I used Valarian root as a tea has got me to like that weird smell of it. XD
link Jenny Nicholson’s avatar theme park vid!
Funny how that vid's actually accidentally a great companion piece to this just cause so much of what Jenny describes about the park becomes so much more ghoulish when you put it in the context of Na'vi = indigenous group
Like how the problem wasn't the presence of an interplanetary corporation exploiting an inhabited planet for financial gain, the problem is the specific corporation was BAD and EVIL but now a GOOD corporation has arrived and the Na'vi LIKE them and everything's fine
Or how the sacred rite of passage where you form a lifelong bond with a creature that holds deep significance in Na'vi culture has been turned into a joyride for humans
Or how, despite the multiple pictures and videos of the Na'vi participating in the construction of the park being on display as proof the corporation's presence on Pandora has the blessing of the Na'vi, there is only one Na'vi you can actually see in person in the entire park, and she's a literal shaman who's performing some presumably sacred ritual song for the entertainment of the human tourists
Hell you can even pay to get yourself done up in full blueface if you want
Where’d you get your pfp from cause I’ve seen so many like it but not exactly online
Yaaassss! 😀
Jenny Nicholson is probably the only reason anyone hear has even thought about Avatar in the last Decade.
Charlotte Butcher I came from her channel and was about to comment this.
As a non native English speaker the word "bird" and it's pronunciation and especially used to describe the flying animals is inexplicably and utterly hilarious to me ?? Like I love hearing it and reading in the comments it's making my day lol
I always viewed the nature of pandora winning the final battle for them as "nature god got pissed off and decided of its own volition to get rid of the invaders" not "jake colonized god". But maybe i was missing something.
waitingfor2020 nature god shouldn’t need jake. He’s 🤬nature god‼️
I think Jake showing Eowa his memories of earth helped greatly but in the end, Jake was not the hero and I never saw him as the hero.
Yet I do in fact disagree with lots of things in this video and in the comments.
But the point is it’s shown and handled like Jake was the one who caused it and he literally benefits from it in the end
I mean you’d think the planet would have realized and or noticed humans were “bad” with all the massive pit mining and destruction they're doing to the ecosystem
the fact it’s hinted they have had violent encounters with the locals and native as well as the fact their ships literally have massive missiles and guns to blow way the local mega fauna anytime they encounter them
or how about when the humans literally carpet bomb home tree into splinters?
at no other point the planet decided to get involved until after the “white savior” made his speech and told it humans were bad?
Sorry the living planet had plenty of evidence that humans were not only bad but were dangerous to it’s ecosystem long before jake ever “talked to it”
which is why the fact the planet only reacts at the last second after being talked to by Jake that it looks like jake got its number,
Yeah, I think a lot of people 'criticising' Avatar miss the fact that Jake *didn't* save everyone. His army was massacred and he lost the fight with Quaritch. They were saved through deliberate intervention by the local god and then Neytiri had to save him.
Did you learn how to do that blue filter on SKILL SHARE ???
Glad they decided on the Avatar program. God knows I would trust an alien wearing a soulless homunculus skinsuit probably made from a corpse than them just... talking to me.
It seems to me that the humans couldn’t take being so much physically smaller and weaker than the Na’vi out of subconscious pride more than any practical concerns.
I always thought that the animal kingdom version of pandora was tone deaf what with the whole “don’t worry we’re all friends! this is a tourist spot now :)” and all of the pieces of story telling in the park... I think there’s even a spot in one of the restaurants that have a letter on the wall congratulating the scientists on their work with “befriending the navi” and making it a tourist spot LOL
I think you missed a key plot point of the film. What the corporation was doing was patently illegal, and only the combination of the local administrator being both weak and greedy and Quaritch (the psycho military villain) being, well, fucking psycho caused what happened. He hated the place and its people, he hated the rules he was forced to operate under, and eventually said "you know what fuck it I'm sick of talking nice to these blue fuckers I'm just gonna wipe them the hell out and take what we want and make up an excuse after". The corporate guy was like "umm, you know we aren't allowed to do that right?" and Quaritch was like "you can either nod quietly and back up my story and get the credit for this haul I'm about to bring in, or you can be tragically killed in an unfortunate friendly fire accident."
The company was NOT allowed to do any of what they did. Quaritch went rogue and did it anyway with the intention of covering it up after the fact. That depended on no one who wasn't on board with the plan surviving to tell the Earth authorities what really happened, with Quaritch and his people the only ones left to tell their version of the story and falsify evidence to back it up. It didn't matter if the authorities found it difficult to believe, it only mattered that they couldn't prove otherwise. With the only eyewitnesses being his people and all on the same page, and free reign to destroy and alter evidence, the authorities could be completely convinced he was guilty but be unable to build a case against him to prosecute.
That means, with Quaritch dead and any of his people not KIA captured, the pro-Navi humans were free to tell the Earth authorities exactly what happened and present all the evidence needed to back it up. The surviving conspirators would have the book thrown at them and probably spend life in prison, and the company at minimum would be legally liable for massive fines and would lose their contract / legal license to operate on Pandora. There would be no repeat of the abuses, either of the Na'vi or their homeland.
So of course the Na'vi would be able to be convinced that some humans at least were cool and could be friends, after all the official human government took action against the people who hurt them and some humans fought on their side. Those humans risked their lives, and some of them died, all to help them against the others. That's reason enough to allow some unarmed civilian humans to come visit so long as they stayed within carefully designated areas and behaved themselves.
"big, strong DeviantArt cat-person" just murdered me lmao
Valerian is not a good movie, but I was genuinely moved by the opening sequence.
David Bowie makes everything better. See also: Labyrinth.
I'd have liked the Na'vi to have been more alien, rather than analogous. Nothing as extreme as a species that breathes through their anuses, or eat with their necks or something. Just something more abstract and freaky. You know, something interesting. But I do actually like this film, in the same way I like cheese and ham sandwiches.
Apparently they were gonna go for a more "alien" alien,. Like, six limbed, no mammaries or even hair, to match along with the rest of the wildlife. But instead, sexy blue cat people, because mass appeal.
It's funny, I was 14 when this came out. I laughed at how sexy they made the aliens on the promo poster. The huuuugggge eyes, small nose, big lips. The stretched but not warped bodies. (Also, their heads being, well, not stretched along with the rest of their body)
Then I unironically fell in love with the movie, obsessing over it for two years. Like, 100% the crappy game level of obsession, just so I could get all the animal, plant, and Na'vi lore.
I had fallen for the exact sort of marketing I had previously been mocking.
Even with a more critical eye, ten years later, I stilI do look on the movie affectionately as a nostalgia thing.
There are some clever ideas in there, too. Like how the planet is basically one giant brain made of trees, and the external brain stems of the Na'vi people and animals being able to upload and download memories.
Like, their god actually exists and there is an afterlife of sorts because of it. A naturally occuring Matrix, if you will.
And naming the McGuffin mineral "Unobtanium" is probably exactly what humanity would name it upon it being discovered. "Boaty McBoatFace" anyone?
@@GlitteryGecko this is going to sound superficial, but I started avoiding the movie as a kid when I initially heard all the hype about it for two reasons: one, I was always a massive contrarian, even as a child, and two, I really hated the way the Na'vi looked. They've just always been so hideous to me that it killed any interest I could have had in the movie.
District 9.
H.D Beird Breathes through their anuses? Like turtles?
i want someone to anthro those big birds
"Hey, we should strip mine this planet for its rare metals" "Okay, where is it?" "It's this lush inhabited planet called Pandora" "... Why do you want to mine the only other planet we have ever found that has literally anything but minerals? If these metals are so important, why would they be local only to this planet, rather than its solar system? Or, hell, the entire local cluster of stars from the same nebula?" "Umm..."
Filmmakers are rarely scientists.
Why does that matter? Why are you trying to nitpick a movie like some clickbaiting chud who's t-shirt contains more mustard and grease than fabric?
You could probably argue something that the tree was responsible for that. Akin to how an oyster makes a pearl.
But it was really just a metaphor for Oil in Iraq.
It's best left unsaid like the force in starwars. Giving the midichlorians explanation didn't make it better.
Gold,Platinum,Silver ..... does this names tells nothing to you ? An element can be important while being rare at the same time.
Sacha Strillozzi You really thought you were clever with this
Giant mech knife is the only part I remember. It's amazing.
At about 14 minutes you describe "Strike 1" against the movie being that they were worried about him being lost in the woods, and that they could have woken him up and located his Na'vi body that way. Several problems - it is established that interrupting a link is dangerous. It's also established that the pain experienced in the Na'vi body can impact you in your "real" body (though Grace's example is emotional pain). We see this when Norm is shot in the battle later on, he awakens in a state of pain and panic. I think it would be very traumatic to feel yourself die in a Na'vi body. Lastly, the Na'vi body is incredibly valuable. If left somewhere unsafe, it would probably get eaten by scavengers.
Yeah except that Jake is forcibly removed three times from the avatar bed which involves interrupting the link
the first time when they pull him out of the body before hitting home tree, then after they already bomb home tree and pull jake and grace out to throw them in the brig, and then when quaritch attacks the science trailer and crushes jake’s avatar bed,
And nothing happens to him at all.
Also the point still stands whether or not it’s traumatic to die in the avatar body, jake would still be alive in his body, so it’s really not life threatening at all but still presented as such.
the valuable part is the only one that makes actual sense.
When you said "remember what was cool and memorable about valerian and the city of 100 planets?" I instantly thought of the opening. It was so interesting and gave me hope that the rest of the movie would be as well
The movie is very interesting. Aside from the visuals, the thematic aspects are quite nuanced. It shows how one man goes from working with an oppressive force that disregards the value of nature to becoming an individual who recognizes the value in having a connection with the natural world.
16:00 How dare you not credit the cinematic masterpiece that was the true inspiration for this movie: Fern Gully.
Movie would have benefited from Tim Curry voicing the mech that the colonel piloted.
@StealthIntel WE WERE ROBBED
@@Gunbladefire Have the mech's onboard AI join the Na'vi at the end.
"I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism!"
*stifled laughter skillfully disguised as angry hyperventilating*
"PANDORA!"
It's been a long time since I saw that movie but I do remember that at least there the female "native" was more of a main character than the white guy.
But yeah Avatar sure has a lot in common with that one. More so even than all the other examples people give probably, because of the fantasy escapism stuff. Even the colour palette was similar I think
@Syksy I was mostly just referencing the “guy gets transformed and learns about the locals with a sexy, exotic woman as his guide” similarities. Also they were both pretty hamfisted.
Let met get this off my chest: 90% of the action scene in avatar are Jake Sully falling down and you can interpret the movie has Jake Sully being a supervilain
It's basically boku no hero with Deku constantly crying.
But that's the way it is. You usually don't follow the coolest or strongest character in a movie or in a series but rather some beta loser who struggles with even the basics.
really appreciate the effort and levity you put into this video! it's a p complex topic, colonization in popular culture.
a few points, a) if i remember correctly, the artist you mention at the end, Barlow, was formerly a paleontologist (or at least heavily inspired by the field of paleontology in his work) and uses a lot of scientific theories and information we have on prehistoric and/or deep sea creatures to theorize what said aliens would look like. I think his dedication to the science itself is really telling in the way he approaches the idea of conservation for conservation's sake, in addition to making his paintings really fucking dope. b) i've seen some of your videos before but i can't particularly remember how much you source other folks, but i was going to suggest if you were to do something revolving around colonialism/indigenous issues, that plugging/sourcing some indigenous writers and critics would be really good. obvsly you did your research, but i think some things require hearing from people have lived the effects of this kind of media representation, and there are many indigenous/Native creators who have really incredible work that's underappreciated. there's a lot to talk about in terms of Native caricatures in media for sure. 'Reel Injun' is a great documentary about it, the filmmaker, Neil Diamond, is Cree.
this is a pretty long comment so sorry lmao, but overall i really enjoyed this video! i always hear jokes about the mediocrity of Avatar, so it's good to see some actual critiques of it, considering the sheer amount of exposure the movie got.
also OH MAN there is a lot to say about the fetishization of characters like neytiri and how that reflects the alarming amount of dehumanization and objectification of murdered and missing Indigenous women. there's a lot of shit that using Native allegories incorporates whether you want it to or not. you'd think other non-Native creators would learn to stop leaning on it as a neo-liberal crutch.
Reel Injun is phenomenal, and you’re correct it absolutely deserved a plug. Will keep it in mind in future!
I also didn't like how to movie use the term "terrorism", when the Navi actions were much more defensive, but maybe that's the point?
I interpreted that as just the humans painting a false picture of the Navi, going "look at how bad these aliens are treating us, what did we ever do to them?" which is something humans do a lot
It's interesting to note that James Cameron is Canadian and the reporting/police/military rhetoric here of indigenous protests and land protection has often called indigenous people terrorists
@@MysterySeeker That is exactly the point. It's akin to how oppressive forces want to paint those that they are oppressing as hostile and dangerous, and thus give more reason to use violence against them.
It took me over half the video to notice the blue filter
8:34 I agree. I also think Neytiri should have been the one to lead her people. You also might get more feedback about this if it didn’t flash for like half a second!
I'm generally fine with them but that one was way to quick. I tried to freeze frame it, but it's so short that I can't be precise enough on my phone.
What exactly would that accomplish. Jake knew how both sides operated, and was capable of conquering Toruk, which is the ultimate sign of respect. It was established in the film that as he got more familiar with the terrain, he became resourceful and tactful in how to interact with the environments and creatures of Pandora.
The tribe is always led by men
She actually did lead it 🙄
She mobilized her people, using Jake (Toruk Makto) only as a tool.
Jake, however, organized the attack since he was an ex-military and knew what they had to deal with when the humans attacked.
And he wasn't even the hero in the end. Eowa and Pandora's ecosystem was.
Jake was a single rack-wheel in the whole machine, this is what you guys don't seem to get.
Just rewatched this for the sake of it, and oh no I just realised something
Avatar is related to Get Out, as in "having the superior mind of a white man, and the pure body of the native/other" kinda way...
I feel a little dirty about the fact that I loved this movie to pieces when it first came out, and not only thought of it as an enjoyable wish fulfillment fantasy, but actually felt like it had a good message with it's references to the Iraq war and such. I went back and watched it again a few years later and I got hit with the feeling that the movie was just self indulgent escapism for Americans who wish they could escape capitalism by moving to a really comfortable to live in rainforest where the animals are your friends and you can go swimming in a bioluminescent rave pool with an exotic beauty. The who escapist power fantasy aspect, even putting aside the problematic racist tropes, really knee caps any potential for meaningful messaging. I feel yucky for being so easily won over by it while being blissfully anaware of the problematic aspects of the movie. I am the gullible mindless consumer.
Hey, nothing wrong with enjoying dumb stuff every once in a while. As a kid, Phantom Menace and Alien vs. Predator were my two favorite movies.
But yeah, oof, the contradictory themes tho. Also, your avatar is giving me mad Brood War nostalgia. Guess I know how I'm spending my evening!
it's one thing to enjoy it, I enjoy all sorts of shallow indulgent nonsense, but another thing to think it is substantively good (which I did, at first).
I was a major starcraft nerd when I chose this avatar... kerrigan was a favorite female power fantasy of mine too XD
TBH, if you gave me 6 months in the middle of nowhere with nothing but an exotic but still (conventionally) beautiful 'not-human' female to keep me company... I'd have to think about it really hard.
I mean I can't just say I'd say yes or no right here, but I'd still have to consider it...
The main character throws his life into violently resisting the capitalist death machine...
Thanks for the video. Avatar is one of my favorite films. The escapism and wish for a simpler life is real here, and alluring. It has always been a sort of guilty pleasure to enjoy because of its many problematic elements. You expressed those problems accurately and succinctly.
@@macmcskullface1004 No fuckable cat people that way though. :/
Your relationship change for Jake and his brother would have made for a far more satisfying character arc. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be a reveal. If you make that the cause of his brothers death, you could have Jake know it from the beginning and have it give him a far more negative view on the Na'vi from the get go. It would also establish a much more understandably strained relationship between him and Sigourney Weaver's character from the outset. With her afraid his hostility will jeopardize her mission. Then have his growth come from discovering who his brother really was (Let him find his logs and let us see them with him). Have him learn how his brother saw the Na'vi in a much more sympathetic and appreciative way. Have that view of the Na'vi culture reshape how Jake views them as well. Either way he would now have a more defined character arc and real conflict as he grows to side with the Na'vi. As it stands now he just goes from indifference to zealot with little actual change or reflection.
Love the armchair criticism, Professor Neckbeard.
I do like that idea of how he changes his view of the Navi, but that is already in the movie to some degree.
His introduction to Pandora was a rough one and was a bad impression. Charged by a giant rhino and then chased by the apex predator, only to later be attacked by the wolves. Not a rosy start.
However, as he gets introduced to the Navi and learns how they operate, he begins to change his view of Pandora.
What started as a ignorant view based on fear gradually changed into him recognizing the beauty and value of the life present on Pandora.
This movie's greatest (and only) strength is the creature designs, excluding the unrealistically humanoid Na'vi.
It's what I like the most about it!
As a white person who’s writing a novel about humans messing up earth and trying to take over another planet, this video was incredibly helpful in the way of “what not to do”. Thanks!
This review made me realize that we DO need more giant mechs pulling out knives in cinema. Thanks for that trenchant observation.
I'm sure there was some meaningful stuff on colonization and preserving things for their own sake independent of our egoistic desires, but really, more mechs and more knives, Hollywood.
1) Mmmm. Cat people. 💙
2) This film didn't have an original bone in it's body. I've read this exact story (boy meets gaia world, falls in love, takes over, kicks everyone else off) at least a dozen times. James Cameron's version comes off poorly thought out but SO, SO SHINY! (Yes, I love cliches. So, so, much. I revel in b-grade YA stuff. Twilight was middling. )
3) White savior is just a flavor of what you get when the Chosen One naritive meets culture. Any culture. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter if the protagonist isn't a white man. The One is always, somehow, Superior to whatever culture they take over. Of course, having your "culture" be a loose amalgamation of what muricans think of when you say "native" doesn't help.
4) Admiting that I love cliches, tropes, and shiny colors, here are a few things I wish could have been adressed.
~planets have more than one climate. The moment scifi acknowledges this, I will rejoice.
~Jake stepping down as leader. The release of his shiny lugia is mentioned so briefly that most people missed it, and this symbolic release of power is never proven. Three hour movie, I know, but it they could have done it.
~ maybe I saw a different release, but I never saw much of earth. The first I saw of Jake's wheelchair was when he disembarked the shuttle. Way better beginning, but hey, Lucas made unneeded lore alterations, so let's all!
~We never see how the naavi react to Jake's legs. They live on a sentient, all- encompassing gaia world, but they're no stranger to war. How would those with access to body swapping magic see it? A weakness? A battle scar? Would Neytiri be upset, or proud, or would she react at all? I guess that would have taken effort to give the Naavi culture actual depth. Thbbbbt.
Anyway, thanks for reading this. Hope you like.
For a film no one talks about, a lot of people have been talking about it as of late.
cause cameron literally has 3-4 sequels backed up all in the works for it
I don't like how it took me 7+1/2 minutes to notice that you're blue.
Dabudee dabudaa
3:25 can't believe goofy says *die* in the mickey dance party verison of "blue"
I was so shook when this started playing, since I listened to it just yesterday. Everything seemed like a big conspiracy.
The discovery channel documentary film you talked about has a very weird tone as a result of the explorers being robots. Like, these are state of the art AI who are interacting with alien life, its surreal in a lot of aspects, especially if the Earth is also dying at the same time. What hit me the most is when one of them powers down after being attacked, and the aliens have a hard time conceiving of them as being 'alive,' the robots are just as alien as the aliens.
One minute per break? Why don't they just bring their phones into the bathroom?
PCs and laptops still exist
@@cara_carambola Impossible!
Hot take but it's not actually true that humans have always genocided and warred and never had somewhat peaceful contact with other nations. For one thing, many of the people colonized by the Europeans had been met long before then, so it wasn't a first encounter. The Native Americans were the exception to that. You could also look to Native America and see locations like Pueblo Bonito where many different cultures brought sacred ritual items, making the city a sort of cultural hub. Trade and shared knowledge has influenced human history quite a lot.
So there's actually kind of a problem with taking it to be human nature or the nature of sentient life that everyone will act like white Europeans under mercantilism/capitalism.
I don't see you giving a good sample of that. As far im aware, whenever a nation was confident that someone sufficiently different looking could be conquered or exploited, someone came up with an excuse to do so. I'm eager to hear if theres a different thing that happened but. Usually nations that trade peacefully are those that don't feel like they could conquer.
The only thing the Avatar franchise needs is New Age books selling "Authentic Na'vi Spirituality".
"This way of exploiting other people is abhorrent! Try this one."
Yeah if you think Jake's story stretched credulity - I've heard *some* people get to be leaders *without* a good speech *or* a big bird.
You're saying "Make[CountryName] great again", and promising to built a structure to isolate the country from others, while making the outsiders pay for it..."
*ISN'T a good speech?* XP
Am I the only one who's a little worn out on fast text flybys that only last a few frames?
@@lulucool45 late to the party but you can pause a video and use the . key to go forwards in one frame increments and the , key to go backwards
@@user-js4ur2nl7t thanks, I’ve just been doing pause/unpause until i catch it
Like a PEASANT
Have you ever seen Battle for Terra? It's a low budget sci-fi animation that has a plot similar to Avatar, but better in almost every way.
The main things I've managed to remember about this movie involved how Cameron went on about how they put in so much work to make every lifeform on Pandora appear to be naturally part of the same ecosystem, but then the Naavi were the only vertebrate-analogues on Pandora to not be hexapodal and to not have spiracles at the base of the neck. And no signs of vestigial structures indicating those parts being lost or absorbed. Basically marking the Naavi as being something completely non-native from the perspective of a Pandoran evolutionary system just so we could have sexy blue cat people.
Also that it was a played straight White Savior story. But now I have even more details for that second one than I did before.
I and the few subset of people who weren't distracted by Avatar's graphics had come to the understanding that Avatar was just a sci-fi retelling of Dances With Wolves a while ago and left it at that. It's good to see a more nuanced look at it. It may seem late right now, but seeing as how Cameron is planning on making FOUR of these things, it'll never really too late, and it would serve well to investigate the first movie to see if it really deserves it.
The only thing I remember from this movie is thinking “this is literally Pocahontas for grownups” the entire time. It actually made me aware of the white saviour trope, so I gotta give it credit for that
great video. now I'm just wondering how much more I'd care about Avatar's story if it didn't star a white guy and instead the protag was an actual native
...a story that starts with the focus on an alien planet, and THEN humans show up to try to bully their way in, honestly sounds interesting to me!
just watched this video after watching the sequel and thinking that the fact that Jake’s authority is still completely unquestioned throughout it keeps the film close to that white savior trope
Somebody call *the Question Boyz*
Papyrus font, also known as The Indian Font, is most often used by non-Indigenous people to to promote Indigenous-inspired/appropriated works and products. Avatar is basically the health-food-store-packaged-white-sage of films.
“.AAAND I DON’T MEAN LEVIS!!!” Oh I love your brain.
Thank you for putting into words some of my frustration with the "white savior" trope. It's honestly something that I'd hadn't thought much about, or dismissed when brought up, until I started seeing more shows made by people of color (Get Out, Selma, Underground, American Gods) that broke away from it. I suddenly realized there were other, MUCH better options. I want to see more stories break away from that because it's a biased (and just boring) cliche at this point.
you: "Na'vi"
no one:
Hermione Granger: iT's *na-VEE*, nOt *NAH-vy*
Surprised no one else has brought up the biggest takeaway from this video: there's a Goofy remix of I'm Blue.
Me after seeing Avatar the first time: "I liked the Disney version of Pocahontas more. It had a raccoon and better music."
I actually rather liked Valerian but I've come to terms with the fact that I may be the only one X3;;
Either way, great video! I've watched it a couple times now, but I'm trying to make more of an effort to like and leave comments. I really enjoy your channel and I think you deserve every boost in the metrics you can get =3
I liked Avatar when it first came out bc I thought the Na'vi were hot and I was a closet monster fucker
Oh same. Made a Na'vi OC as soon as I got home.
this is the most anyone has ever talked about avatar
Lumping in both indigenous people and the environment under the conservation umbrella ...a little risque no?
I like the video. Agreed with most of it.
I love that you used the XCOM 2 Background music midway through the video after you mentioned the Avatar Project in a hamfisted joke reference. It both works well for the moment _and_ drives into the reference.
My main gripe with Avatar is that when you boil the movie down, it feels unfocused. When you look at, let's say Disney's Pocahontas, (regardless of historical inaccuracy) you know why Radcliff is set in his ways. He thinks the Natives are savages and that they're secretly hoarding gold, he's motivated by greed. What do the bad guys in Avatar want? Something called "Unobtanium". Really. That's what they all agreed on. Okay, stupid name but fine, what does it do, why is it so valuable? Well it's vaguely said that it has something to do with providing or generating energy because Earth's resources are dwindling. James Cameron wanted the Na'vi to be a fully realized culture. Their own language, how they function, their beliefs, and their own music that James wanted to sound "Alien". But when he was given that, he rejected all but a small amount for being "too alien", feeling audiences wouldn't understand. I could go on but I'd be writing a novel so I'll just say that Avatar as a film feels very hollow. On the outside it looks beautiful, the environments, the creatures, etc, but when you dig deeper, there's nothing there. It's the same story we've seen a thousand times, with a new coat of paint. What hurts more is there are deleted scenes that actually fleshed out certain characters more and would've benefited the story, but were most likely cut for runtime, so we're left with cartoony, 2 dimensional bad guys, and what's worse, making Jake the savior even though Grace committed her life to the Na'vi.
With the new one coming this review came to mind.
Jack Saint’s work is like that one contrapoints quote
“Have you ever considered transphobia is actually racist”
I love it
Lachlan Lord of All Things Crispy too real
Omg, the portal music at 21:10. The pilot really does look like Chell xD
Everything about "Avatar I & II" is magnificent. It is a testament to cinematic ability. Everything that is...except the STORY. If they had set aside just enough of Avatar's HUGE budget to pay a competent writer for a story that isn't a retread of every "white savior" movie ever made.
Btw, "Avatar" doesn't handle the time lag of space travel very well at all.
This was such a great analysis. All I can think of contributing to the conversation is that my mom once went on a date with "Mr. Avatar". She said he was incredibly nice, and incredibly blue.