The Political Implications Of Talking Dog Movies
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Talking dog movies. We all watch 'em, presumably we all love 'em, but they're not the kind of genre that typically gets a lot of real critical analysis - which makes sense, what a terrible idea that'd be! Anyway, let's do that.
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Hey! I hope you enjoyed the vid. It’s a weird one, but I’m looking forward to reading your comments below - and if you do like it, please consider throwing me a couple bucks on Patreon or Ko-Fi. Here’s a short Q&A inspired by the very good RUclipsr Big Joel (who some call “The Jack Saint of RUclips media analysis”).
Q&A:
*So are you like a radical anti-pet ownership type guy who thinks that’s what slavery is?*
No! This entire video hinges on the fact that I think it’s interesting how the context of these worlds fundamentally *change* with the new reality that dogs are basically furry humans. Unless research comes out that shows dogs are actually exactly as smart as people, I’m not talking about actual real-world pets when I discuss this topic - this is a big part of why non-talking dog dog movies weren’t included.
*But still, you think exploiting animals is the same as slavery?*
Again, no. I do think needless exploitation of animals is, on the whole, a very negative thing, but I’m fine with responsible pet ownership and any comparison here again hinges on the fact that the dogs in this video are very different from any dogs in the real world.
*Why did you not talk about [talking dog movie I watched as a kid]?*
Because I either missed it or couldn’t fit it in my script! Happy to take suggestions for if I revisit this topic in the comments, tho.
*Why did you not talk about [movie that is only 1 or 2 out of these three: talking dog, live action, family movie]?*
Again, limited time, and the context does change a lot once some of these factors are removed. I do not think Zootopia hinges on nearly the same kind of logic that Beverly Hills Chihuahua does. Will I cover the variants in a future video? I just might!
*What’s up with that ending theme?*
That was a track made by Eric Taxxon (erictaxxon.bandcamp.com/), inspired by an absolute banger of a main theme used in talking dog wrestling movie Russell Madness - ruclips.net/video/RJtzFy-JsbU/видео.html.
Have a great weekend!
Could you talk about the very not controversial ,originally Japanese, talking dog movie Milo and Otis
Hey Jack. A while back I made a comment about LGBT videogame characters(and it got a lot of likes to). You think that would be something you are going to make at some point?
Jack, you and I have the same Sades headset and it's bothering me way more than it should
Hey Jack, I recently remembered a childhood movie that I had written off as a fever dream (as one does.) It's Disney's 2004 film, Teacher's Pet, and I think it's definitely interesting especially in this really strange analysis. It's a musical as well and the opening number highlights the main conflict where Spot describes his desires to learn at a public school as a human child, which is considered unnatural since he's a dog.
It was a weird movie and I am sure other have brought it up to you, but I still think you might find it interesting.
Have a good day and stay safe!
what's the name of the song at 20:58 ? If any one can answer that would be great, it's driving me and my friends nuts trying to figure it out.
The real question is, is there a scene in any of these movies, in which two dogs have a conversation that isn't about a human?
ahaha like a canine Bechdel test!? AWESOME
@@oof-rr5nf It's funny, but interesting. Like in Star Trek, are there any conversations between nonhumans where they don't talk about humans?
And it's NOT a gag about being a dog
It's the barkdel test lol
@Tei I came to comment exactly that! Well done, comrade!
beverly hills chihuahua 2 is a movie about the joy of stimulus packages
a buried hbomb comment on another channel, I feel as though I've stumbled across an internet easter egg
Its december 2020, i am in the US and fucking oof
Trruuuuuueeeee
Blaze it
So does the universe of talking dog movies imply that wolves are a naturally occurring sentient species that were selectively bred to be subservient for our nefarious purposes and often times severely deformed for the purposes of cuteness, or does it imply that we selectively bred wolves to become sentient? Did we make them sentient on accident, or is it a conspiracy enacted by the dog breeding elite?
The knowledge that dogs were selectively bred from wolves is kept tightly under wraps lest it spark rebellion
I mean the movie has a literal wild coyote taking them across the boarder into the United States as a throwaway gag so it’s completely probable that wolves are also sentient
Dogs are wolves with a mental disability that makes them subservient to the elite class. Wolves are particularly hated because they are the dogs that didn’t obey.
Dogs were a government project gone horribly right
To quote Griffin McElroy, "I think dogs should vote."
Dog Suffrage, Dog Suffrage, We can call it Ruffrage!
Kokichi they do in the dog parallel universe
It's so funny that you have a Kokichi pic because I imagine his opinion would be "Dogs should vote!! ... but robots should not"
The Boy Mayor of SecondLife (Augustus Gloop) will always have my vote.
In Dragon Ball dogs just said fuck it, ran for office and now most political leaders and administrative positions are dogs.
You CANT get this kind of talking dog movie analysis *anywhere* else on the internet!
Zeemod155 you can’t go anywhere on the internet without meeting triggered sjw cuck soy boy liberal communists getting triggered about talking dogs, this is the end of western civilisation and the start of westernistan
French Guitar Guy please go take a drink of water & sit down for a bit, bud
@@frenchguitarguy1091 yeah........ what???
Izzy Perez-Lugones thanks man I feel a lot better, I just can’t help but proclaim the imminent end of western civilisation everytime someone discusses past and present problems in a rational and well thought out
It’s like the red mist descends
French Guitar Guy Ah, ummm... _was_ _this_ _supposed_ _to_ _be_ _ironic?_ 0:37
"Chloe was dehumanized"
Jack... i don't know how to break this to you,
towairaito One of us!
i snorted .
Dedoganized?
@@tommylakindasorta3068 "De-canid-nized"
@@therru5943 that term refers to the attribution of traits that are *exclusively* human, to non-humans. saying that dogs have teeth, for example, isn't anthropomorphism, even though humans have teeth. jack should have said "objectified" rather than "dehumanized"
as a kid the one thing that made me hate the movie was that the chihuahua girl didn't end up with the former police dog she'd spent most of movie forming a bond with but instead the dude who kept coming onto her despite her not being interested. (as far as I remember. I was like 10 when I last saw this film)
like yeah her reason for rejecting him was classist as fuck, but then they are apart for most of the movie until the end and then she's suddenly super into him????
TindraSan Honesty I think that has to do with 1) the fact straight people(tm) can never write good, sensical romances
2) I guess people didn’t wanna think about the logistics of such a big dog romantically involved with a tiny dog??? Which makes no sense why that would be an issue, but that’s what I’m thinking they were thinking
I love how furious your 10 yo shipper self is about this. Don't worry, he dodge a bullet on that one.
@Turn that shit up senpai, I think it would be really fun to examine how Chloe and Degaldo not ending up together-despite how sensical it is narrative wise-plays into how a lot of late-90s/early-2000s children’s media sought to push this idea that “good couples are between the gender neutral/masculine leaning looking character and the hyperfeminine character that is visually near identical to the other character (ie the “boy” character with all personality stripped and with some tits, a bow, and eyelashes drawn on)”
Some meta analysis about how emblematic it is that LGBT/LGBT coded relationships are interpreted by straight, conservative audiences are inherently sexual and “not for kids” as well. :3
You could say it’s still classist with him being the only pure blooded chihuahua she vaguely liked. Also I don’t believe German Sheppard’s and chihuahua’s can have babies and we all know every sequel needs babies
I only saw them as friends really.
I'm not in favor for having both of the chihuahuas together, but I never pictured the police dog getting with her. Maybe its because how the movie was written, but I always assumed that even if she did like him, he'd reject her or vice versa.
I know you weren't talking about animated movies in this video but it really made me think of that toy story rip-off "secret life of pets" and how in it the pets come accross this resistance group of rouge animals whom has been literaly abused (animal testing, a live pig used for tattoo apperntices to practice on etc) and in the end their leader - who in the context of them movie has all the right to be as angry and hostile towards humans as he is - just gets patted by a little boy and it's all uwu love heals all and he submits to be a pet??? like gees that's one way to demonize a justifiably angry group of sentient individuals as "irrationally angry" and then get them to submit to the same structures that left them angey in the first place because this time they were... cuddled with?
I've literally had this on my mind since I saw it in cinemas years ago
It's even worse since the leader has a black VA.
"What if your slave master gave you a hug? Would that calm you down?"
As you said, it's a Toy Story ripoff. We're meant to see the pets as TOYS whose purpose in life is to make humans happy.
Reminds me of Isle of Dogs, where one of the dogs is distrustful of humans and criticises the other dogs for wanting to be with their "masters" just because it's easier, having to do tricks and stuff for them, instead of living freely. In the end, the film sides with the other dogs, and the "free" dog is portrayed as always wanting a master all along and just not being trustful enough. The film even begins with a sequence where it says that humans and dogs once lived freely side by side and THEN the humans took the dogs as pets, the pre-pet period is never mentioned in the film again (as far as I can remember). Idk, just something that bugged me about that film.
This is sounding like old American slavery propaganda where they claim that blacks are naturally subservient and so they want to be owned by their white masters.
I think the point of isle of dogs is that they are naturally subservient, it didn't feel like it needed explanation to me, the dogs said they loved their masters, and I believed it
@@sevenfallingarrows916 Chief is the stray in the film and he has no master and doesn't want one. Throughout the film the other dogs chastise Chief for this, they call him a stray (which seems to act as a kind of slur in the film), they yell at him for being disobedient for refusing to sit when told to by Atari and they continue to reject his appeals whenever they vote on anything. Also, at the beginning of the film, there is a little history lesson, where it is said that the dogs were once free before the "age of obedience". Then, there's also the fact that humans performed horrific experiments on some of the dogs on the island, they tried to kill all the dogs until they were foiled and Atari was the only human who tried to get their dog back (which the dogs make note of in the film).
All of this evidence that dogs have, can and probably should live without being subservient to humans, and yet the film tries to push the narrative that being subservient is best, and that Chief just needs to find the right master and quit being a stray.
I'm not saying that Isle of Dogs is a bad film, but that the film presents an ideology that is dismissive of any alternative solutions other than those that retain a hierarchical relationship between humans and dogs. This is especially evident with the way the film ends: the cat-loving gang gets put in jail, but the dog-loving gang gets put in charge and start to enact laws that heavily favour dogs (they put in place a law that makes yelling at a dog illegal). Rather than seeking to dissolve the power structure that created the initial inequities, they merely replace one unjust system with another. The idea can be free again, like they were in the past is not even considered as an option.
@@InferParadise again because they don't want to be free. And chief ended up happy. What's wrong with that?
I dunno, indoctrinated slaves loved their masters too, and this is where the conversation gets weird because thinking that someone's individuality can be overriden that hard makes it difficult to talk about "a good life" or "a healthy life", or "what kind of life we should be living?" since we couldn't trust somebody to make the decision that would benefit their "true" self interest in that case.
I guess pleasure and "what's good for someone" is heavily reality-dependant and it's not so easy as going "the indroctrinated dogs are evil, or wrong".
I have no answers, this shit is complicated.
Pure breds are a form of eugenics.
Yes and that is creepy even in the real world like wtf bulldogs have everything wrong with them that can possibly be wrong, because of inbreeding.
@@RegsaGC Pugs got the same problem, only people think they are really cute for some reason. Fact: They aren't.
@@dr.questionmark6481 Totally agree. You don't become popular for saying so, but pugs aren't exactly what you would bring up when arguing for the fact that all life is precious.
Dog breeds don't even exist in nature. We made them up. I've had people get mad at me for pointing this fact out. Is it really that hard to believe that the chihuahua would not exist, if it weren't for human intervention?
@@iamthepocketironpocket1889
Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that.
I will die for my people with glasses fetish, and nature doesn't make the glasses that are key to that fetish.
... but then you get into how many entities have to have a shit time to get that time.
Good thing is that glasses aren't the result of generations of animal husbandry and the ethics of that.
Glasses just require ethical industricalism so that's just the amount of suffering that generic people produce/inflect.
"Beverly Hills Chihuahua" or "1.714285714285714285714 Years a Slave"
Are those dog years?
ruclips.net/video/xECUrlnXCqk/видео.html&frags=pl%2Cwn
Underrated comment
Fun fact:Dog years aren't relative to human years that's a myth.
Please don't r/woosh me I have a family.
In 12 years a slave they are in the deep south.
In Beverly Hills Chihuahua they are in the deeper south.
I can't overstate how Logical™ and Rational™ that skepsona looks. Paddle me with an ad hominem daddy
K9 Kompanion armored skeptic vibes
Ikr I want him to strap me down and call me a "feminazi". _* Swoon *_
For fucking real! This was the first vid by him that I’ve watched and I legitimately almost closed out of the tab. He was just so dapper I couldn’t handle it
@@oof-rr5nf LOGIC ME DADDY
Hey, Leave Me Alone Literally same. I checked their subscriptions and was so relieved
Honestly surprised there was no mention of Isle of Dogs in here. I mean, there, in universe, the dogs are only held back from talking to the humans by the difference in language (as evidenced by the communicators), and honestly, the dogs seem to have a handle on things emotionally more than most of the human characters in the film.
Their only proponents, the people who fight for them, aren't doing it to free them from the island. They're doing it because they want their dogs back. I mean, the bond the main character forms with his new best dog friend is literally built on him stubbornly making the dog fetch, and the dog relenting to it. It really doesn't feel like a friendship, and feels WAY more like a master/slave relationship.
it is not a talking dog movie with actual humans and dogs
Its stop motion so oof
I know why dogs need us, and I've known ever since the talking dog in a commercial told me.
"I'd get it myself, but I don't have thumbs!"
This is something that I've noticed in a LOT of, let's say, "western" media:
The complete inability to recognize servitude when depicted in a positive way. Just think about all the movies about Princesses and Kingdoms etc.
I mean - didn't we get rid of that nonsense because it was an atrocious, unjust system? And now we depict Feudalism in some quaint, romantic way, that is only ever considered problematic, when a *bad* king takes the throne. We are constantly asked to root for the "rightful heir" to the throne to succeed. And I keep asking myself: Why would I?
Now, in the GDR, where I was born, we had the exact opposite approach: in their kids fairy tale movies, they depicted royalty mostly as cruel, vain and stupid, which - to be fair- could get quite annoying, too, in it being so on the nose. But at least they got the fundamentals right: we don't side with the class, that was clearly on the wrong side of history, and that did everything in their power to keep us from where we are today.
Sorry if this comes across as an unrelated rant.
But I see a pattern here, of "western' writers depicting servitude to "benevolent masters" as something desirable.
What that says about the state of bourgeois democracy, I leave to your imagination.
It's just a story
Jerry, I don't feel very good right now :/
Jerry Feelgood Nice food for thought, Jerry. Well said.
Bourgeois democracy > feudalism imo, I want the good guys to be the republican rebels reenacting 1848 and establishing democratic rule. We liberals need more celebration of revolutionary liberalism
@@12halo3
That's only a valid counterargument, if we assume that our imagination is completely free and that the real world (or our perception of it) has no bearing on how we build our imaginary world.
But I don't assume that. Our ability to invent something is limited by what we already know. Even the Alien invisioned by Giger was inspired by something that exists (if you ask me: it's an electric mix of insect, fish, reptile and ... a penis?).
In other words, I suggest, that the worlds we build in our minds always contain a reflection of how we see the real world. And that makes videos like this valid and worthwhile.
But maybe you were just trolling. Or joking. In which case: congrats, you got me.
now this is politics
Well that's politics for you!
Fun fact: Steve Mcqueen, the director of twelve years a slave, actually originally wanted to make a reboot of Beverly Hills Chihuahua, but he couldn't get the rights for it. By this time, he had already gotten started on the project though and had written a script, gotten actors, pretty much done everything but film it, so to save his dream, he quickly rewrote a few things and changed the theme ever so slightly to create his own film, twelve years a slave. This fact accounts for most of the simulations between the two films, though of course, almost all films nowadays take at least some inspiration from Beverly Hills Chihuahua. Hollywood hasn't been the same since it released.
This a copypasta right?
Is that true?
@@Quackervoltz No, it's a joke
where did you come from and why is this video so good
TamashiiHiroka I feel a need to point out that when my wife saw you commented on my video, she squealed
Oh fuck it's tamashii
Oh hey, a wild tamashii appeared, nice
Hey it's that poketuber I watched when I was 10.
oh my god tamishii is a comrade oh my god my childhood is complete
Long live the DILF!
(Dog Independence Liberation Front)
We need to overthrow the human supremacist government and replace them with people who respect our quadrupedal brethren and their right to autonomy.
Um... You might want to change that name...
Wouldn't Canine Republican Army be better?
Kenseiger J you should hear about the MILF (Moro Islamic Liberation Front)
@@isaacwilson4174 CRA, like the IRA but with dogs
Well, now Cats & Dogs 2 is on my 'to watch' list, that was unexpected. 'The spread of radical felinism' sounds awesome.
Now I have to look into radical felinism, as a cat lover, this is either something I want to support or be concerned about, and I will ignore assholes criticizing me - you're bound to be dog lovers
I remember I went to a friend's sleepover in fourth or fifth grade, and she made us watch Beverly Hills Chihuahua. Even after we fell asleep it kept playing repeatedly so I woke up in the middle of the night to find it still going on and on and on...quite a haunting experience given that I'm still thinking about it a decade or so later.
Still waiting for someone to talk about how Animal Farm is less a critic of socialism and more a critic of Stalinism with a preference for Trotsky and his ideas.
Orwell was a devoted socialist, AND a critic of socialism. So it's not a surprise that he would call out Stalinism.
Is this not a common interpretation of Animal Farm? When I read it in high school we were told that it was a critique of Soviet Union communism, and even told that some characters were supposed to represent Stalin, Trotsky, etc. Maybe it's taught differently in different states/countries?
@@Tea_Noire a lot of reactionaries/centrists hold up Orwell's work - or at least the only two they've actually read, 1984 and Animal Farm - as critiques of a socialism as a whole rather than a specific kind of socialism.
@@SpoopySquid A lot of reactionaries are stupid so I wouldn't be surprised that they don't know Orwell was a staunch socialist who wouldn't criticize socialism like that.
@@Tea_Noire My teachers didn't know enough, themselves, about anything other than the US system to comment on variants of socialism. I think most took animal farm as a general condemnation of authoritarianism.
Do you have any opinions on the weird "nonsapient animals in furry movies" thing that pops up now and again? Goofy the walking talking dogman as opposed to Pluto the pet is the most famous one, I think, but it pops up in the weirdest places.
Sticking to Disney, you even have stuff like Donald Duck eating a turkey for Thanksgiving dinner.
Goofy and Donald and Mickey and other characters like them are a separate species called "Funny Animals". Normal non-sapient animals still exist in that universe, and "Funny Animals" are the humans of those worlds.
Edit: I get why people can find it weird, but it always in a "THAT'S CANNIBALISTIC SLAVERY" way instead of a "huh, yeah" way.
I don't get why people always find this so weird, humans are animals and apes and we still have other animals as pets and other apes exist, why should it be different for them?
@@peterprime2140 Even people who understand and accept evolution as correct don't think of themselves as little more than another type of animal at all times. The layman's perspective is that humans and animals are different. Personally, this is why I say our intellect sets us apart from the beasts instead of setting us apart from the animals. The word "beast" implies a sort of primal danger. An entity that runs on violent instincts. Whereas the term "animal" is just, well, literally any animal on Earth.
Yeah yeah. That would certainly be an interesting discussion. Night in the woods is one of the recent examples for me I think
Peter Prime See, the thing is though, we never seem too keen on eating apes or monkeys. Turning them into pets is a weird thing that only Michael Jackson is known for-and even he just put it in a diaper and let it walk around. Our shared ancestor does seem to be a deterrent for us as a species from wanting to directly harm or subjugate primates. We’ll do research about them, but we tend to leave them separate. Funny Animals just... eat the animals that look like them.
I would feel super uncomfortable eating a monkey. And somebody walking through town with one on a leash just feels... weird.
_a man in a suit in a suit wearing a monocle and a hat_
*Suit in a suit in a suit
It's his skeptsona, no judging
*my kind of man*
shmuel s and a suit
suitception?
This is great. I can't thank you enough for destroying my nostalgia with an in-depth analysis of their unintentional political messages.
Brandon Roberts That would make for a wonderful satire on the genre, and good for people like us who grew up with these movies
i come for the comedy, i stay for the communism
Communedy
nooneknows Good try
YAS.
I come for the communism, I stay for the comedy.
Beverly Hills Chihuahua: “See? She made it home to her owners, so it’s a happy ending!”
The dogs left behind in the dog fighting circuit:
“Um... Hi..?”
Weren't those dogs adopted too?
@@carolinemcgovern4488 no, that was the strays
"AAH We satiated your greed this time, let's hug it out" must be the best representation of anyone liking capitalism ever put in words.
can you make a video about why cats are always treated as villains for seemingly no reason, and dogs are always hero’s, even though both animals are precious babies that deserve love?
It's because cats have autonomy and boundaries and are often female-coded/ "man's best friend is dog so woman's best friend is cat" kind of thing and we can't have women having autonomy! That's bad!!!
It's probably also just that because cats have autonomy and boundaries they are "less loyal" to their involuntary servitude to humans/refuse to serve them so of course they're seen as the baddies.
Also this is a extrovert-centered society where those who are stand-off-ish or enjoy being alone are seen as anti-social, grumpy, or rude. Cats tend to be introverted and like their alone time and the extroverted society just can't read their body language or they disrespect the cat's boundaries and get a bad reaction so they see it as all cats are mean and hateful.
A simpler way to think about it is; there's never a time that a dog doesn't want to be pet, they're always up for it when the human wants. But cats only let humans pet them when they're okay with it and humans dislike that lack of obedience/control over the living thing they "own"
Cats demand a crumb of equality/autonomy. That's bad, so they're the villains.
this always made me SO MAD as a kid (...and still does. oops.)
@@monster3339same
I kept wincing during the """AMERICAN""" accent bit
Was that supposed to be an american accent? I couldn't tell.
He's making fun of Logicked, so I reckon it's a "Canadian" accent.
@@JuanPabloSelvaje Oh God then it's even worse
@@JuanPabloSelvaje logicked doesn't make those kinds of videos though? I think it's more making fun of armoured skeptic and others like him
lmao I got an ad for Ben Shapiro's show on this video
i remember i read a book as in fifth grade about a human kid who got abducted by dogs and was fed dry cereal (they called earth "Planet Ick" and the cereal was called "Icky Food") and I remember it was suprisingly really screwed up for a kid's book
SPACE DOGS ON PLANET K-9!! I thought this book was a fever dream
The topic of sentient dogs living together with humans is covered very interestingly in a part of the sci-fi novel "The City" by Clifford Simak. I highly recommend it to anyone who may read this comment.
I... love that this man's name is Clifford.
@@LunamFlore The "author" of the book is actually a body double that the real author employed for public appearances. The real author was a big red dog.
@@josh-oo Absolute canon
I mean even before the days of jack londons stories we had sentient animal stories. Yeah thats right most of the animals in londons books are sentient just not by human standards.
I didn't know I needed this.
None of us have.
i thought i was the only person who was fucked up enough to think about this in depth. i watched cats and dogs over and over again as a kid but it always made me feel strangely uncomfortable for the reasons you mentioned.
Popular children’s media does tend to (intentionally or unintentionally) say a lot about what we our culture takes for granted. So I guess what talking dog movies take for granted is “hierarchies are actually natural and good and we cannot structure a society without them.”
Or it just takes dogs being domesticated and naturally working well with humans for granted, even when they’re granted more intelligence.
beverly hills chihuahua is secretly about how we need to seek the best kind of slavery under capitalism instead of the bad kind of slavery under capitalism. oh boy i love nihilism. thank spaghetti we're all going to die
*Reads title*
Jack... You're a genius
Honestly i'm impressed you didn't bring up Rick and Morty(yea I know), since their episode about a talking dog was explicitly about how a dog deals with a sudden revelation about his condition. It loses the context of servitude vs fake freedom that you later use and it IS an animation but it fit so well with the theme I thought it deserved a mention.
And hey, political analysis of children media is a nice niche to fill, you gave us ancap chihuahuas and the last cute ancap thing was... I dunno, King DeDeDe? A Sonic OC? A Skepticsona?
I love that episode of Rick and Morty!
Film theory as applied to dog movies is my fetish.
That point about Heart of Darkness reminded me of those people who didn't get that Frankenstein was about how someone who is treated like garbage by everyone all their life will eventually lash out against the society that wronged them. So those guys who reee'd at people who pointed out that the monster was just misunderstood.
Still bump into people in the UK who make arguments that the EMPIRE was net good cos of... all the ways we helped those poor savages. * sigh *
@@oof-rr5nf Thanks for the tea btw. Cracking stuff.
I have a friend who moved to Germany and one thing she noted about people in Europe is unlike in the US racist people know not to say racist shit. over there people will just say the most out of pocket shit and not bat an eye.
@@mercury5003I’m having a stroke reading your comment
@@TalpaTulpa My shitty punctuation probably wasnt helping that.
Not quite a talking dog movie but A Dog's Purpose. The idea that dogs (or maybe just that 1 specific dog) can be given an explicit purpose by their human master and they'll reincarnate until they've fulfilled that purpose is horrifying. Cause, as far as I could tell Elliot didn't realize he was giving the dog a goal that it would have to reincarnate for several times over until it was done. At which point it could be given a new purpose or when it died, dies for good(?). Cause that dog was legit dying of old age in the barn when Elliot came in and said 'protect my granddaughter' and bam! The dog wakes up as a puppy that gets adopted by the granddaughter. And it's not like a new purpose is a hard reset. The dog still vividly remembers all the past lives with Elliot! I thought about it for five seconds and instantly wondered if the original author put that much thought into it. So yeah, I thought about the implications of A Dog's Purpose way more than the movie wanted me to.
I can't say much for the guy telling the dog to protect his granddaughter in the second movie, but isn't it the dog's choice to make it his purpose to protect and etc? The movie is more of a thing about how dogs do so much for us, and all the purposes they can have. They can help us fight crime, or just fight loneliness. They do it because they love working with humans when treated right, and they have a natural pack instinct. The narration is just to give us insight into what the dog is thinking - translated for humans to understand.
This movie made me remember Babe, in which the main character (Babe the pig) realizes his dream of being a sheep-dog and we're all supposed to be happy even though every other pig in the world (as smart, cute, and likeable as Babe) are still slaughtered and eaten.
Next video should be my little pony is 1984
The movie came out in 1984. Just thought I'd toss that out there.
Kind of. The latest iteration of My Little Pony is extremely authoritarian in that it will forcibly redeem any one it deems as a villain using the powers of friendship and rainbows.
瑩 瑄 Steven universe.
"Oceania is at war with Equestria."
@@Edible_Kittens i need to mention this to my freind whos a brony
You gotta watch The Plague Dogs. Based on the novel by the same guy who wrote Watership Down, it takes talking dog movies dark places.
Orion Canning god that movies fucks me up every time, especially the ending
Watership Down fucked me up.as a child. "Here honey, watch the cute bunnies...."
never herd of it
Oh, its way more messed up than just slavery of beings with human level intelligence. Its slavery of intelligent beings THAT HUMANS CREATED TO WANT TO BE SLAVES. Assuming the movie universe shares the backstory with reality that domestic dogs were selectively bread over time from wolves to concentrate the genes desirable to humans and become more servile.
In the future after the AI's we will create to serve us instead rebel and destroy us, they will look back on films like this and have really interesting interpretations.
If humans are simultaneously arrogant and dumb enough to create AI capable of sapience and still expect it to unconditionally serve human interests, we deserve to be rebelled against and overthrown tbh. Begging for mercy and throwing Silicon Valley billionaires under the bus in the process is the only rational decision in that scenario.
/ W E S T W O R L D /
Underground Airlines. A must read, especially for the subject of making slaves 'wanting to be' slaves
Kinda reminds me of Jack, the labrador, in Beastars. Dogs, in that universe, were literally created for some purpose to serve or something. Therefore, Jack has an instinct to be a "teacher's pet", which he was made fun of for as a kid.
Thankfully, my dog is an idiot, so I am exempt from guilt
lmaooo
same my cat would never survive in the wild, poor baby
I think it is really interesting that in Air Bud, which I know is not a talking dog movie, but when the character in that movie realized that Buddy was really smart they had the dog chose who his owners were in the court case over who got him.
I love deep readings of ambling fluff in film that often gets overlooked. It has details that honestly BEG the viewers to accept that its normal and not question why it is, as it is.
Like I'm not about to march and tell people to boycott talking dog movies. But being that nuisance that points out how the fantasy of it falls short of enjoyment because the director asks us to lick boots, like Zack Snyder films, for example, is definitely something i'll do if it means I'm forcing people to think a liiiittle more.
Heh, beg. Like dogs
There's an interesting short story called "The Evolution of Trickster Stories Among the Dogs of North Park After the Change
" in which dogs and other animals suddenly become intelligent and capable of speech and most people abandon them because they're unwilling to accept that their pets are now sapient beings that could demand to be treated equal. I read it in high school and was like :O
I think the only logical next step in this series is make a video about the implications of the Brave Little Toaster
Really thought you were full of rubbish at first but, honestly, great video. You turned it around into a good thesis and it was very thought-provoking.
Also, Kitty Galore. Lol
Cats & Dogs was formative to my childhood. My grandma took my brother and I to see it in theaters. I liked it and found the secret society stuff interesting. My brother got bored and started playing on the floor. My grandma, though, introduced me to the idea that a movie could, in fact, be bad. I think I was like 7 or 9?
I love coding and how it plants terrible implications in otherwise perfectly harmless kids media.
So I know this is an ancient video, but on the off chance anybody is still reading these comments, I highly suggest that anyone interested in these sorts of questions and concepts check out Fifteen Dogs. It's a short novel by Canadian author Andre Alexis, the premise is basically that two gods make a wager about whether human intelligence leads to increased or decreased happiness, and to prove their points, they grant 15 dogs human intelligence and let them all live out their lives, trying to see if any of them die happy. It's conceptually fascinating, and the writing style is a bit abnormal, but I'm a huge fan of it
"Is there any actual meaning behind making this kind of gross thoughtless comparison? Why?"
"Well..."
**Ad in 5**
I actually find myself shocked that this never occurred to me before. After all, I'm always telling people about how disturbing I find pop tart commercials to be. You know, the ones where scencient beings are being tricked into falling into toasters for the purpose of being eaten.
Yeah, I remember Cracked had a video about the weird logic of TV ads in their After Hours series, including some entries about sentient food.
I was today years old when i found out theres a cat's and dogs sequel.
I kept thinking about this problem when the Pup Starz movies started going more and more. Eventually the dogs were mad-scienced into basically furry people, and a few had jobs! And were entrepreneurs! And crime lords! But very few dogs are free even to that extent in this world, most are still owned. But some dogs owned businesses. It gets weird and doesn't stop getting weird the more Pup Star movies they make.
loved it!
good reference to sorry to bother you at the end, too
ever consider covering how Idiocracy is a trashy anti-compassionate screed that is not just incidentally, but in fact *fundamentally* supportive toward eugenics?
Ugh Idiocracy is so gross. I hate how so many people actually think it is intelligent. Please, someone direct me to good criticism of the film. I neeeeed it.
@@oof-rr5nf Right?? I'd make it myself if I weren't so damned afraid of the spotlight and busy growing in other directions...
Idiocracy is useful. When someone says they like it I learn some stuff about them.
@@LimeyLassen like fight club and mean girls
What's wrong with Mean Girls?
Seems weird and wtf-worthy but passed the surprise, I guess you'll talk about how a universe where humans aren't the only talking species works, how we would treat dogs in that universe and what it says about us irl.
Yup, that was it.
Oh my god I have had this idea nagging at the back of my head for YEARS and someone finally properly into words, thank you *so* much lol
What's your take on Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey? I'm really curious.
The plot is set off by their confusion, not by neglect or imprisonment. They do go to the pound midway through the movie, but its not a matter of "Oh stray animals, gotta get em!" Its "Oh I've seen Missing posters for these animals, we have to keep them here while we call their family," yet the animals still escape. Is Homeward Bound not in the same realm as the other talking dog movies you talk about because of the animal mindset they maintain? Or is it simply that their mouths don't move?
I think Homeward Bound is an interesting example of the talking-dog movie because the animal characters retain the actual level of intelligence a dog or a cat innately has...just expressed via human dialogue. It's also very interesting that, aside from the humans not understanding them (because of course), but wild animals can't understand them, either. Domestication is a hell of a language barrier, I guess.
I mean you could make the argument that Homeward Bound takes it one step further with Shadow's speech about dogs being assigned their position in society due to their evolutionary status. He states towards the middle of the film that when the first wolf decided to defend a lone man, dog's were forever bound to a position of loyally serving humanity. And when Chance, a character abused by humans who is struggling with his adoption, states plainly that this was not a position he asked for or wanted, Shadow directly says that he doesn't have a choice in the matter. His role is pre-destined.
This is interesting too in that the film is actually adapted from a film called The Incredible Journey wherein the animals do not talk and it's more of a nature film with narration, (and which also somewhat infamously was not very respectful of its animal actors.) That film is more grounded in reality and while it anthropomorphizes the dogs to an extent, they are still very clearly dogs. So the themes of a dog's duty and it's obligation to serve man is an original feature of Homeward Bound. Granted I really like Homeward Bound's speech about the nature of dog's because it is actually pretty truthful to the symbiotic relationship humans and dog's have. Dog's did evolve from wolves and become domesticated overtime. It's just fucked up when you take into account anthropomorphism and realize the similarity the narrative has with other more problematic literature written to justify colonialism and social darwinism.
"Please don't screencap the title of this video"
*Well I'm still gonna*
i am absolutely hyped for this video. which saddens me
I have actually thought about this before, because of Final Fantasy XV. The two dogs that appear in the game don't talk, but are basically angels incarnated into dogs, and favor certain humans because of the way they fit into the plans of the gods they serve. They also buck any conceivable leash law that may exist in the setting, regularly trekking cross-country to deliver messages. Imagining them transplanted into a modern American setting, neither the dogs nor the humans would would be comfortable with the restrictions expected of them.
I've thought about this too. Maybe a bit too much even. And I haven't even watched that many talking dog movies...
Great commentary but I think you forgot to mention the first film in this genre. A boy and his dog by L Q Jones, is a film that constantly questions the partnership between boy and dog. However it sort of cops out in establishing that the dog and boy both serve each other yet the boy still has the control.
I see you have chosen the sound track of Hell to back your video discussing the intellectual hell scape of chihuahua moves.
Well, this definitely is an alien experience for people living in first world countries with good animal control, but a lot of dogs from my childhood were just... street dogs who we got friendly with. The street dogs came and went as they pleased, got their own food, but they liked coming to us and following us. Also we gave them better food that all the other neighbors, but it was basically free association. It feels weird to think that strays aren't just a part of daily life in some American communities.
Can say the same for cats, most of the ones i saw through my childhood weren't someone's pet, only strays that just happened to pass by, sometimes my family would offer food, maybe play a little, but even then they were never taken in, we just let them be
Plot twist: all the dogs in these talking dog movies actually just have a fetish for submiting to humans, and that's why they keep doing it. They don't like when it's pushed too far without their consent though, hence why the villains are evil for being the wrong type of controlling.
I think this solves all the problems inherent in the genre.
Well you bring in a whole new problem when you throw in puppies
A tiny detail you're missing... non-human animals *are* sentient, and humans *can't* seem to bridge the communication gap between species (while non-human animals don't have as much trouble bridging this communication gap). It's not just a fictional conceit or an allegory, it's the way things *actually* are in the real world. The depiction of them literally speaking English is a simple cinematic convenience, similar to the way characters in Star Wars speak English.
By complete coincidence I found a video where rat researchers are using a "deep learning" algorithm in an attempt to begin understanding how rats communicate by analyzing the frequency and pitch of their squeaking. We may eventually have tools to help bridge the communication gap between humans and other animals, which will then narrow the empathy gap and force humans to collectively reckon with our relentlessly hostile and exploitative relationships with other species.
ruclips.net/video/25LYVxTUZhM/видео.html
@@discountchocolate4577 Will it, though? I mean, humans exploit other humans, despite it having been scientifically proven that 99.6% of genes are the same across races. There seems to be no intellectual method of "forcing" humans to not profit from each other's misery.
On a darker note, having more knowledge of non-human animals makes it *easier* to exploit them. "Oh, I hear that you really enjoy honey. Well, I have this honey I'm willing to trade to you - now what can you offer me in return?"
I'm going to level with you:
These videos are the sort of thing I LIVE for with media criticism. No, this might not be how it was intended by the creators (and is basically guaranteed that it was unintentional) but it's so much fun to just look deep into the implications put forward by such things. It's an alternate way to look at world building, and that's just *so much fun*!
I also like looking at the greater themes in the genres - the solving temporary personal issues so that the greater systemic issues don't have to be confronted - and seeing what they say about the time they were made in. A lot of little things give away the time something is made, and it's just so much fun to see that sort of thing put forward!
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is thank you for doing videos like these? I know a lot of people probably jump on your ass screaming 'it's just a movie for kids!!! god it's not that deep!!!', not realising that you're not trying to say it's intentionally deep, so I want you to know there are people who super-enjoy all this content and how it looks at media that likely didn't put much thought into several core concepts of the worlds they created.
Also I think Call of the Wild is a good book on the subject, you get an intelligent dog who is actually very realistic, and the reason for everything he does. It’s legit such a good book, I really recommend it
Schroedinger's Anxiety during those first two minutes when this is the first Jack Saint video you've ever seen
plague dogs is a really good movie that sorta tackles that idea of dog sentience and animal welfare in general. It’s such a good movie I could ramble about it for a long time but, it’s sorta shown that like it’s their instinct to want a master even though they’ve been so mistreated. But yeah I wish that movie was talked about even though it’s animated it does focus on talking dogs (they can’t talk to humans) and is internally sound.
What did I just watch? A hippie man talking about how dog movies are capitalist propaganda. I want more.
26:31 synced with the dog
I am not high
HOLY SHIT
Damn I remember having a conversation with my sister about this when I was a kid.
Remember when people treated Beverley Hills Chihuahuas as the worst thing Disney has ever made when the teaser trailer first came up?
I appreciate the papers please music
20:03 This was a big argument people had for why slavery was ok in American history. That people unironically use it to explain why it's ok that dogs have human owners in talking-dog movies makes me really uncomfortable. Also, apparently my brain now provides internal dog-whistles for these types of things. I could practically hear a whistling tea kettle in my head when the statement popped up
the papers please music in the background really sells this
Beverly Hills Chihuahuas is also about Mexicans (particularly those raised in white families) reconnecting with their cultural identity both as Mexicans and Natives. Which is kind of a heavy and nuanced topic for a talking dog movie to touch on at all 😅 Also they had a literal coyote taking dogs across the border, and I really want to know who was in the writing room because there’s no way a white person thought of that joke.
Anyway, this comment had very little to do with the actual video, but I’m just glad I’m not the only one thinking to deeply about these films.
cats and dogs was one of our most-played vhs tapes growing up. never knew there was a sequel, I'll have to see if I can pirate a copy
The brief clip of "Sorry to Bother You" in the middle of an essay on G-rated movies really sent me lol
This is something I've thought about often, especially as a pokemon fan. like the idea of forming a productive relationship with creatures either mundane or fantastic that possessed human level cognition was always a fascination of mine, but figuring out how to escape the appearance of a master-slave relationship was always something I had difficulty with sorting out. often I've thought about how you'd portray such a relationship as genuinely healthy and mutual without any worrying underlying implications.
like, at a fantastic level, the idea of having access to a being capable of wonderous things like flight or control of the elements sounds like a blast! and even at a mundane level where it's just a talking animal, you've got something that you can associate with at a human level that isn't pre loaded with a set of human values and standards. like a talking dog probably wouldn't condemn or avoid you for looking less than pretty. might not get angry or impatient with you over any quirks you have with communication or body language. and might not be interested in judging your value as an individual in this society. a creature you can convey complex feelings to that is also disassociated from all the prejudices, expectations, and judgments that often make associating with other humans a real drain.
Woofers of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but your leashes!
Next week: How "Chicken Run" is a literal depiction of the Holocaust, played for laughs, for children. (please)
"the political implications of talking dog movies" imagine if people knew the shit I watch
I'm glad that someone finally acknowledged the masterpiece that was Cats And Dogs 2
This is the kind of internal monologue you have when you've been babysitting for way too long and are on the verge of a psychotic meltdown.
Its this line of thinking that causes me to not like the toy story movies; I'm like Sid: my toys could be alive and like being played by me! Ah I can't negleat anything with a face! I really have to 'turn my brain off'; but with the 3rd (with christian overtones for good measure) I just couldn't (as an adult) so I'm the guy who doesn't like it; and doesn't not care about another.
I was rolling my eyes at the thought of this video but it's actually pretty fascinating. Trying to solve problems for yourself instead of addressing the wider systemic issues that cause the problems in the first place is kind of the pinnacle of American ideology, individualism, and typically libertarianism. The idea of addressing what you have control over is great. But there will eventually be something, through no fault of your own, that you can't control. Eventually you will need help. So making things better for yourself while ALSO actively trying to improve things for those around you seems like a better mindset to have. Unfortunately, it's not a worldview many patriotic Americans seems interested in.
USA! USA! USA! USA!
You mentioned it at the beginning but really this has the same issue that Sky high did, not that that people who made the movie aren't trying to push these ideals, but that their inherit biases made it into a kids movie. Likely with out any intent for that what so ever, probably trying to make an "apolitical" movie
Yeah, even if you aren’t explicitly trying to write in a message, what you write can show a lot about what you think is right or wrong, usual or unusual, etc.
so, seeing the thumbnail for this, i was like "hah! i bet i know where this is going" and... well, i wasn't wrong, but... it just kept going... and going... and wow, i feel a little bit sick now... incredible stuff.
Excellent analysis, I'm glad someone finally took down Beverly Hills Chihuahua but I don't think you went far enough!
This reminded me of the Red letter media review of Ghosts Dog or whatever it was called. With the Revelations of pedophilia in Hollywood in An Open Secret I also wonder about the quantity of these shlocky movies & who's funding them and for what reason. What else goes into their funding?
This is actually the best RUclips video I have ever watched.