another great mikey pipes install!! Fit / Feel / Finish - when i worked for frigidaire years ago... those were the things we had to make sure customers felt were high quality.. of course things that worked were paramount.. but assuming everything worked, a customer's fit / feel / finish is really what would determine whether they used you again in the fiuture / and or recommended you to their friends
yeah, but you rarely see it in the field, it's most often an adjustable elbow slammed direct on top the vent hood and minimal pitch to the chimney, which has the openings far too low. leftover dinosaur junk from many years ago. lol
I've had a pipe-undoing mystery for a while with central vacs, glued connections parting later on. Apparently I wasn't supposed to just de-burr the thing, but there's a lip on the outside that prevents the glue from working, and I have to shave this down as well. I don';t know if that's a PVC thing, or due to the special cutter used on central vac stuff, but I'm doing it, so we'll see how it goes.
you VAC fellas need to learn to use cleaner(or primer). that junk is always falling apart, poorly supported, no room for expansion/contraction and shoddily ran... 🤣
Nice job getting that new water heater set up in that space. One question I have always wondered about is why do plumbers always use copper pipe on the pressure relief valve? PVC seems to have advantages such as not drawing heat out of the tank. Is it a code requirement to use copper? Is it just quicker since you have the copper on the truck? Thanks
Nice work Pipe Dr!!! But I am disappointed ☹️ big ol’ Tank. For the rest of that unit life they will have to pay to keep ALL that water volume heated. I was so sure a wall mount unit 😢 don’t take a lot of space an the biggest plus is over their lifetime they only heat water when needed. But? With the older Gen. It is harder to sell them coz they are used to having tons of stored hot water.. but sweet install job!!❤❤ (edited fur a spell 👻 boo)
I was always tought to take combustion analysis above the flu collar.. i agree with your way, and this is how ive been doing them for a long time. I dont care what the gasses are doing after they get excess air , i want to know what the appliance is doing during combustion. :)
You remind me of John Goodman my boy. from that TV show from the 1990's Rosanne. Dan Conners. we west coast plumbers from Southern California love trippin' on them east coast New York plumbers. it's all good bro.just hackin'.
it’s crazy I don’t know where you did this work but here in New York City you would have to pull a permit pressure test the entire gas piping in the house and have a physical inspection by DOB (gas rough pressure and finish inspection) RIDICULOUS
Great work Mike! With a 160k boiler they could run a fairly large indirect. Is it the price of an indirect vs conventional water heater that tipped the scale? Thanks for great videos!
You mention at 8:25 in your video that the boiler was "grossly oversized". Wouldn't removing the indirect water heater make the boiler even more oversized? Are there any disadvantages to a grossly oversized boiler?
the boiler should be sized for the total radiation elements in the home(and/or it's BTU needs), the indirect tank is never factored into the BTU requirement and if need be, placed as a priority zone with time limit failover back to heating. exception to that is a commercial setting where the indirect will run frequently to continuously to keep up with water heating demand, but in that case they usually go with standalone water heating setups.
Am I crazy for saying I'd have chosen to install an indirect that was designed to make use of that boiler's output? To me it seems the 136,000 BTU output of that thing will heat more water faster than the 40,000 in the tank unit. The houses I've been in that had indirect water heaters on big boilers, the hot water never seemed to run out, it felt like a tankless.
Traditional water heater is a great choice. The extra expense of yearly flushes and expensive parts negate any savings from a tankless unit. Indirect puts too much wear and tear on the boiler.
One man’s data on the subject. “Extra expense” is a couple gallons of white vinegar and an hour of my time. My tankless is 6 years old and has required no parts, expensive or inexpensive. But then, I got 22 years out of the original 50 gallon tank, simply by flushing annually and replacing anode rods (hmm “expensive parts”?). Northwest NJ - not the hardest water I’ve ever dealt with, but still…
how do you like the Mini Therm? I was thinking about getting my Dad one. Small 900sq foot house. Ther math tells me 40k BTU, but I was going to buy the 60k
Not a fan of the Techtanium heaters. They are almost as expensive as stainless but are glass lined steel with anode rods. Pulled one recently that was 12 yrs old and heavily rusted inside.
Codes vary all over the place. I can only speak to my local codes ( Canada) here you pretty much must pull a chimney liner ( accordion style stainless steal or aluminium ) .. there are very very few exceptions as the condensate will compromise any mortar joints it encounters
The 2020 New York State plumbing code is the same as the ICC in 504.7 a pan must be installed if any damage could be done when installing a tank style water heater or water storage system. In my opinion damage could be done due to that water heater being in a tiny unfinished mechanical closet with finished space next to it. I wasn’t aware of this until we failed an inspection a few years back.
Water always gas priority circuit. A over sized boiler means less cycling of the boiler == less fatigue on the system. SMe same for a water tank, they lose some efficiency after they form a mineral ja, you can hear the pop pop crackle sounds when older tanks fire, it's the gasses expanding under the mineral dropout, we call it "kettleing" in the trade You'd rather have too many btu ( reasonably) than not enough. The lack of the chimney liner also makes the boiler less efficient as it doesn't vent properly, plus the condensate will eat away mortar and can compromise the chimney structure
@@MrDmadness actually, oversizing a boiler will cause it to hit high limit very fast and short cycle.... the radiation elements can only put out so much heat(baseboard, radiators, coils, whatever), chance are that house has about half the output capability of the boilers output.
I didn’t think you would need to replace the tank. You had condensation on water intake line and no priority control board. I’m thinking I would have added that before putting a water heater. Maybe I missed something and being stupid
Having an indirect on a %80 gas fired boiler is basically useless. Only reason an indirect is financially better is if it’s connected to a condensing 90 plus percent gas boiler.
@hunner9500 #1 indirect will have a higher 1st hour recovery rate. #2 no need to run additional gas line and vent. #3 stainless steel tank will outlast black steel every single time. As a direct replacement, I would definitely go with indirect.
![VENEZUELA vs. ARGENTINA [1-1] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SJfoPdeOPCQ/mqdefault.jpg)
another great mikey pipes install!! Fit / Feel / Finish - when i worked for frigidaire years ago... those were the things we had to make sure customers felt were high quality.. of course things that worked were paramount.. but assuming everything worked, a customer's fit / feel / finish is really what would determine whether they used you again in the fiuture / and or recommended you to their friends
Gas pressure after the regulator in the National Grid service area (Long Island) is set at between 5 - 7" WC which is 1/4 lb of pressure not 1/2".
Depends on if it’s elevated pressure or not
Nice job Mike and Mike.
Thanks! We're like the dynamic duo of RUclips, but with the same name!
I have been slacking on videos due to life. Great video! I think I'm caught up finally, was behind like 4 videos
Welcome back!
Good, educational video. Excellent training.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent videos Mike ,keep up the good work !
Thanks 👍
When calculating gas pipe sizing, you need to add equivalent length of fittings
Learn something new every day never knew you needed 12 inches or should have 12 inches above the water heater for a better draft
Suggested
yeah, but you rarely see it in the field, it's most often an adjustable elbow slammed direct on top the vent hood and minimal pitch to the chimney, which has the openings far too low.
leftover dinosaur junk from many years ago. lol
Excellent job.
Excellent customer service.
Excellent branding.
Congratulations to the team for the hat trick 👏👏👏
Fantastic Woodmere water.
I've had a pipe-undoing mystery for a while with central vacs, glued connections parting later on. Apparently I wasn't supposed to just de-burr the thing, but there's a lip on the outside that prevents the glue from working, and I have to shave this down as well. I don';t know if that's a PVC thing, or due to the special cutter used on central vac stuff, but I'm doing it, so we'll see how it goes.
you VAC fellas need to learn to use cleaner(or primer). that junk is always falling apart, poorly supported, no room for expansion/contraction and shoddily ran... 🤣
Love the way you work!! What about their kitchen stove for the overall BTU's?
Nice job getting that new water heater set up in that space. One question I have always wondered about is why do plumbers always use copper pipe on the pressure relief valve? PVC seems to have advantages such as not drawing heat out of the tank. Is it a code requirement to use copper? Is it just quicker since you have the copper on the truck? Thanks
M&M Nice clean job.
Thanks 👍
Nice work Pipe Dr!!! But I am disappointed ☹️ big ol’ Tank. For the rest of that unit life they will have to pay to keep ALL that water volume heated. I was so sure a wall mount unit 😢 don’t take a lot of space an the biggest plus is over their lifetime they only heat water when needed. But? With the older Gen. It is harder to sell them coz they are used to having tons of stored hot water.. but sweet install job!!❤❤ (edited fur a spell 👻 boo)
It is what it is.
Thank God you didn't touch that pipe in the ceiling.
I was always tought to take combustion analysis above the flu collar.. i agree with your way, and this is how ive been doing them for a long time. I dont care what the gasses are doing after they get excess air , i want to know what the appliance is doing during combustion. :)
👍
Combustion should be tested before the diverter. Draft should be tested after.
Hi from Boston
8:48 FYI half a pound is 14" WC. You guys have unusually high pressures there in new York
Lived with 2 tankless water heaters..id go with tanked all the way.
You remind me of John Goodman my boy. from that TV show from the 1990's Rosanne. Dan Conners. we west coast plumbers from Southern California love trippin' on them east coast New York plumbers. it's all good bro.just hackin'.
how many do you find with the tank heat exchanger with a leak?
it’s crazy I don’t know where you did this work but here in New York City you would have to pull a permit pressure test the entire gas piping in the house and have a physical inspection by DOB (gas rough pressure and finish inspection) RIDICULOUS
Yup 👍
Great work Mike! With a 160k boiler they could run a fairly large indirect. Is it the price of an indirect vs conventional water heater that tipped the scale? Thanks for great videos!
Mike on your drip tubes, have you ever cut the bottom end at an angle? around 45* +/-, to keep the home owner from capping it off?
No I haven’t thought of that
One of my classmates back in 1997 HVCC, HVAC-R class@@PipeDoctor
You mention at 8:25 in your video that the boiler was "grossly oversized". Wouldn't removing the indirect water heater make the boiler even more oversized? Are there any disadvantages to a grossly oversized boiler?
the boiler should be sized for the total radiation elements in the home(and/or it's BTU needs), the indirect tank is never factored into the BTU requirement and if need be, placed as a priority zone with time limit failover back to heating.
exception to that is a commercial setting where the indirect will run frequently to continuously to keep up with water heating demand, but in that case they usually go with standalone water heating setups.
Excellent services indeed.
Am I crazy for saying I'd have chosen to install an indirect that was designed to make use of that boiler's output? To me it seems the 136,000 BTU output of that thing will heat more water faster than the 40,000 in the tank unit. The houses I've been in that had indirect water heaters on big boilers, the hot water never seemed to run out, it felt like a tankless.
I will say, sadly our tank heater just isn't suited to my taste in shower heads...
God Bless you Mikey.
Traditional water heater is a great choice. The extra expense of yearly flushes and expensive parts negate any savings from a tankless unit. Indirect puts too much wear and tear on the boiler.
One man’s data on the subject. “Extra expense” is a couple gallons of white vinegar and an hour of my time. My tankless is 6 years old and has required no parts, expensive or inexpensive. But then, I got 22 years out of the original 50 gallon tank, simply by flushing annually and replacing anode rods (hmm “expensive parts”?). Northwest NJ - not the hardest water I’ve ever dealt with, but still…
I was thinking more like a tech coming to the house and charging $200-$300 to do the flush. @@tcoradeschi
how do you like the Mini Therm? I was thinking about getting my Dad one. Small 900sq foot house.
Ther math tells me 40k BTU, but I was going to buy the 60k
Not a fan of the Techtanium heaters. They are almost as expensive as stainless but are glass lined steel with anode rods. Pulled one recently that was 12 yrs old and heavily rusted inside.
I hope your customers realize the respect you have for there home ...
nice follow up paperwork Mikey
Is t it lined though. It has a clay liner I thought that’s all you need.
Codes vary all over the place. I can only speak to my local codes ( Canada) here you pretty much must pull a chimney liner ( accordion style stainless steal or aluminium ) .. there are very very few exceptions as the condensate will compromise any mortar joints it encounters
What guage was that flue Y
Maxwell House, (not Folgers) good to the last drop. I wonder what's wrong with the last drop? It must taste like s...? 🤣🤣
Why would they let the water drain towards the gas meter and the side of the house.
The man Mike G
Love AO Smith
Me too
do they have a gas stove?
Did you also include the stove is that gas
No stove
Those Fenix headlamps are awesome! 🔦😎😀
I think so too!
Why no expansion tank ?
Water heater pans aren’t required in your jurisdiction?
No
The 2020 New York State plumbing code is the same as the ICC in 504.7 a pan must be installed if any damage could be done when installing a tank style water heater or water storage system. In my opinion damage could be done due to that water heater being in a tiny unfinished mechanical closet with finished space next to it. I wasn’t aware of this until we failed an inspection a few years back.
The old tank did not fail. The coil in the tank failed. The anode rod does not protect the copper coil.
👌
NYC code: Boiler and H2O tank should vent seperately. Need to drill another hole in the wall.
This isn’t NYC
Feed me Mikey pipes! Have a great week!
I've used The Techtanium without problems
Thanks for sharing
Does the cooking stove factor in the btu equation too?
All gas appliances do. Whatcha think, I wouldn’t include ALL gas appliances in a load calculation????????
@@PipeDoctor I’m not a plumber, I was just wondering.
What page is 4 fingers on in the manual?
Ask your sister
@@PipeDoctor lol
Saludos Mikey’s
Nice job.
No gas stove in house?
No
Oversized to produce hot water in the winter?
Water always gas priority circuit. A over sized boiler means less cycling of the boiler == less fatigue on the system. SMe same for a water tank, they lose some efficiency after they form a mineral ja, you can hear the pop pop crackle sounds when older tanks fire, it's the gasses expanding under the mineral dropout, we call it "kettleing" in the trade You'd rather have too many btu ( reasonably) than not enough. The lack of the chimney liner also makes the boiler less efficient as it doesn't vent properly, plus the condensate will eat away mortar and can compromise the chimney structure
@@MrDmadness actually, oversizing a boiler will cause it to hit high limit very fast and short cycle....
the radiation elements can only put out so much heat(baseboard, radiators, coils, whatever), chance are that house has about half the output capability of the boilers output.
@@throttlebottle5906 i hear ya and dont disagree, i was not referring to a grossly oversized
as you drain it shack it a couple of times.
You don’t need vac breaker?
Nope
That’s amazing. I would have figured New York of all places would require a vac breaker on the cold water line.
@@Shawn_RHVAC I’ve never installed a vacuum breaker and I’ve never seen one on Long Island or NYC.
I didn’t think you would need to replace the tank. You had condensation on water intake line and no priority control board. I’m thinking I would have added that before putting a water heater. Maybe I missed something and being stupid
Converting from indirect to a gas-fired tank made more financial sense ??
Yes
Having an indirect on a %80 gas fired boiler is basically useless. Only reason an indirect is financially better is if it’s connected to a condensing 90 plus percent gas boiler.
@hunner9500 #1 indirect will have a higher 1st hour recovery rate.
#2 no need to run additional gas line and vent.
#3 stainless steel tank will outlast black steel every single time.
As a direct replacement, I would definitely go with indirect.
No gas stove?
No
Where is expansion tank?
Not needed
mike and ike.
4 finger banger
Deep inside
@@PipeDoctor lol
in cider ?@@PipeDoctor
No, my company uses praxis I think it’s total dog shit
Good decision ' I'm against with tanklace heaters had bad experience with a navain tankless they the worst ever
Thanks for sharing. Anyone else care to comment?
👍✌
That's too much cocky 🤢
Mike needs to to read dictionary
Okay 👍
The best drain pump.lyberty
Chinizium lmao this guy 😅😂😂
lol