I see a lot of people saying “britney spears isn’t disabled so she shouldn’t be treated like this” but in reality its “no one should be treated like this”
Everyone already knows you shouldn’t treat people this way, but a lot of the time disabled people are seen as less than. This is the equivalent of saying “all lives matter”.
Yes, this. Under conservatorship I think Ben and Christine slightly missed the amount of control the conservatorship has over her. She can’t make those medical decisions herself, she basically has NO SAY over her life. That’s the freedom people want for her.
The difference in TikTokers and influencers and Britney Spears is that she never asked them to follow her. Often people like Addison Rae call paps on themselves, because it gives them more press. Britney never wanted that. Once she run into a coffee shop and asked the owner to hide her and her baby from the paparazzi. And you know what owner did? Not only he didn't hide her, but he was also taking pictures of her and her child, while she was crying...
I doubt addison called the paps when that whole crying thing happened. Celebrities DO ask for the attention. They know what they are doing. Don't try to skim over that. And they call the paps JUST AS MUCH. Celebs have whole freaking press teams to get their name out there. Influencers are doing nothing compared to celebs.
@@kaceeharrison3715 i haven't heard about that Addison crying video, but i feel really sorry for her, because no one should be filmed in a vurnable moment without their consent, but many infeluncers are friendly with paparazzi, especially with The Hollywood Fix. Bryce Hall who was with Addison even did a "prank" on the media with this pap named Kevin that he is cheating on her with Lauren...
Most celebrities do that, actually. In a lot of ways, it's a symbiotic relationship where the paparazzi get paid and the celebs get the publicity they need to further their careers. The problem is when the paparazzi step over the line or can't take a no. It's happened so many times, with Britney being stalked and driven to mental illness, or princess Diana being stalked for years and ultimately chased to her death on the streets of Paris.
@@magdalliee Pretty much every up and coming celeb, including Britney in the beginning, called the paps. Pap culture hasn't changed. They still harass and follow celebs, we just don't notice until it's too late. And magazines don't want those harassing videos to come out because they will come under fire.
What’s crazy is Cristine saying “we were 12 so it wasn’t as sexualized” but like britney was SIXTEEN in that video, she was a child and they were pushing her sexuality so hard
What I really enjoy about Bailey is that she does a lot of research on the stories she tells. Tries to get as much background information and is really respectful about telling these stories. I really enjoy her content
@@Sarahkara1313 Agreed! She also mentions quite often that these stories are quite heavy for her, and she makes a huge effort to remain respectful in telling these victims' stories. I think she's great.
When Britney had her "head shaving" breakdown, the media consensus seemed to be she was a wild child trying to get out of a drug test. It was absolutely reported on with glee... "Look at the whack job! She got herself into this mess!" ... I liked her music, though was never a huge Britney stan, and I was disgusted by how she was treated back then. I also remember this show on mtv(?) that showed only paparazzi footage and the egging on and taunting they always did was extremely disturbing to me. It's not just a bunch of randos taking pics, the way the talk to the celebrities they're hounding is a bizarre combination of exploitative/sexual and abusive language.
I can see all of this now and it's incredibly disturbing but I first heard Britney when I was 3 years old thanks to my awesome 10 year old sister who knew what was up so it took me 17 years to fully comprehend how messed up all of it was
It was always disgusting growing up and seeing how they treated her and others. The music she was doing was far too sexualised for such a young audience as well but it sells. It makes the young artists seem promiscuous which brings on more media scrutiny in that regard as well. That doesn't help their mental health when everything they do or say is under a microscope and they're hounded constantly. It's horrible and paparazzi get away with far too much bull.
I never liked her music or had any emotions towards her tbh but what people have done to her was and is horrifying. She has been asked about her body and sexuality in so many inappropriate ways even when she was a minor. I remember her response was freezing when her breasts were in question. She never had any support but loaded with responsibilities. It was unfair and heart breaking. She sufferred and nobody in her inner circle actually cared.
Literally just nodding and smiling once in a while in online school so it looks like I’m listening while I’m actually watching a nail polish lady and her boyfriend talk for an hour😂💜
@@zumikokumi777 Cristine interjected and said she had nothing against her. But Ben was on his way to criticize her. Bailey has nothing negative to say about other youtubers. She states the facts of crimes and Ben was about to criticize her channel if it wasn’t for Cristine stepping in.
I really enjoy Bailey Sarian's content. I mean first off all she clearly does her research and gives context. It also allows me to consume true crime content without having nightmares because of her way of talking, and the fact she never shows explicit pictures for example. Also, I have ADHD, and she has a way of talking and explaining things that keeps my attention as opposed to others that will talk about true crime in a monotone voice or beat around the bush whilst barely giving any information.
I like Baileys content too, but I'm the opposite and I like the crime scene footage and police interviews that's why I find myself going back to "That Chapter" a lot of the time.
I also enjoy her content, I think her story telling is very catching as she tries to make sense of the events that she talks about. Also, I agree that her way of talking as well as the make up helps to pay attention to the story and not feel completely tormented by it, so it does insensitises the events but not in a way that you stop empathising with the victims and the family.
Okay someone help me here. If youve watched the ted bundy tapes or watched baileys video i think ted was classically handsome especially in that time. But mostly he got his victims not by being charismatic but actinf injured and needed help carrying things or in some cases he pretended to be a cop. But to my original point. Ted was handsome when his anger didnt change him. There were 2 sides of Ted from the court videos i have seen. 1st ted was calm and collected. 2nd ted was when his victim that had lived was testifying and she didnt answer the questions to his satisfaction only giving yes or no answers and that pushed him to anger and he turned into the monster as slammed on the counter in front of her and swearing at her. Does anyone else agree that he was handsome when the 1st Ted face was on?
Love love love Bailey. I love her sayings, especially 'get better idols'. She does her face whilst talking because she felt really weird just talking to the camera. She's an MUA by profession, so she wanted to do something she could just do comfortably whilst talking..I often don't watch because I'm doing my nails whilst watching! She does take breaks sometimes because the stories get to her.
Tuesdays are great, this and Frenemies and Blood Bath, and This Might Get Weird on thursday. I have a few more I watch as well, but the 4 I named are the driving force in my life.
The Bailey Sarian point is really interesting. I've been watching her true crime content from the start so I think I got used to her delivery as it evolved over time, but I can definitely see how jarring it could seem if you were to watch her videos now for the first time. I personally really enjoy her content but to each their own of course!
She said herself that her doing her makeup at the same time is so that she would feel more comfortable, she takes breaks since stuff tend to really get to her and she’s always so mindful of the victims. I think it’s more of a misunderstanding, since they haven’t been there from the start and therefore might not know the details older followers know, therefore find it jarring
@@Amandamml1 I think the conspiracies could’ve made a real mess too. Like blaming her for a tuberculosis outbreak? And claiming some random guy was the culprit without evidence? None of it sat right with me
Putting your butthurt aside of how it's not as politically correct as it could have been, it was a great documentary that showed a clear and logical series of events, as well as shining a light on a guy whose life and mental health were severely affected because of the conspiracy theorists that were included in it. People like to write things off just because they've been made to be entertaining.
My problem with what Justin did was that he kept talking about Britney’s sex life, both in the sense that she cheated and just how their sex life was like, knowing Britney was under a lot of pressure to appear as a virgin. He knew he’d get props for it and she’d get the backlash. And he just kept talking about it, over and over, to build his solo career. Making the song was not really the problem (though the video was creepy as hell).
I think media still does same shit with women, for example mysoginistic jokes about Taylor Swift or interview with Lindsay Lohan that went viral lately
Well they also hyper sexualize teenage boys. I can remember as a teen watching this radio interview with one direction when at the time they were all minors and the interviewer asking something along the lines of "so....how many girls have you all had sex with?" "Whos had sex with the most girls?" "Who do you boys think has the most impressive package" and this was a grown woman asking. We have a whole culture of hypersexualizing underage kids. Expecting them to be sexy adults before there bodies are even done maturing
Absolutely, their point about Billie Eilish was a great example, no matter how much you try to focus on your art, as a woman or girl you won't ever escape those comments and treatment :(
Totally. The Lindsay Lohan interview was an older clip (which resurfaced in the context of how Britney Spears was treated) but Billie Eilish wore a tank top one time and was body shamed for weeks for -check notes- having a thin to average build.
THIS!! The idea that Britney was unable to manage her estate but when men like Charlie Sheen and Kanye West have very public breakdowns they are never questioned in the same way. Absolutely asinine
@@cara1michele exactly! It's the continued toxicity that women need to be coddled and protected even if it's from themselves which is such nonsense especially when you compare her experiences to those of Kanye, Charlie Sheen, Shia LaBeouf, Lamar Odom, and the many other male musicians who have had severe mental events and drug benders. I'm thankful she still has her siblings (brother and sister) in her life and now her sister is legally involved because if she was an only child this would be even more harmful for her and isolating.
The clip when that old host asked really young Brittney if she had a boyfriend, and after she said 'no, boys are mean', and the he asks "what about me?" and presses her for an answer was hella creepy.
Ben: "streaming services were supposed to restore order... they were supposed to bring balance to the content universe!" Me, a Star Wars fan: oooooh, I see what you did there....
I think people like Bailey because of her delivery. She talks the way friends might talk about something and it’s different than other ways or documentaries talk about topics.
@@olaa4313 she doesn’t sensationalize it, and yeah it can be jarring to watch someone do their makeup and talk about something violent, but I do appreciate that she tries to give context and doesn’t romanticize the killers
@@siouxsie87 her first MM&M was about Chris Watts...and it was more sympathetic to Shannan and the Girls than the Netflix doc...like truly making the future actions of Chris all the more disgusting... sure it's a little weird having a woman be like..."i can't talk and put on lip liner" and then there's a jump cut and she's like "any way he is seen backing is truck INTO the garage" but that's part of why we like her...she IS different than mainstream true crime shows...
RE: Media after Britney, I think what Cristine is getting at is that a lot of the older audience (parents of the fans) didn't know too much about what was actually happening and judged Britney based off of headlines instead of really seeing what was the issue and why there was a "breakdown". Times were different and though i don't justify it, i do understand that reaction. Many people weren't aware of mental health and stigma, etc. My parents judged her a lot too when the headlines came out, I heard a lot of "that's what she gets for being so XYZ" from a variety of adults.
Yeah, but it wasn't just adults. I ran with the punk kids, and we prided ourselves on how much we hated pop culture. Before it went way south and was obvious that something really sad had happened, we laughed at her. "Driving with a baby in her lap?! Is she mad?!" But the story got worse and we couldn't not care. And then it just kept happening. Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes...suddenly there were a LOT of young famous women with SERIOUS breakdowns and it stopped being funny very fast. I think the visibility of it was what caused compassion to take over. There are some evil people in show business and they've done horrible things to young people and it's horrifying that they keep getting away with it (kesha, anyone)
We haven't progressed that much, I remember an interview with Scarlett Johansson, where she was being interviewed for her black widow character, she was sitting with Jeremy Renner, they ask him i believe questions about his character. But the interviewer asks Scarlett, "were you able to wear under garments?" And she says "you're like the 5th person to ask me that, what is going on?" So there's still a stigma around making women sex objects. The interview: ruclips.net/video/DHxzxgwJTFc/видео.html
"I have the right to take photos of people in public". You do NOT have the right to torment someone until they have a mental crisis. You do NOT have the right to stalk people for photos.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's the real problem. We need to stop people who can't understand where the line should be drawn by changing the laws to protect people who are being harassed. It's really a damn shame.
Some paps are so horrible. They’re so rude to the people who give them their paychecks, and they harass the people close to celebrities. I can see why laws protecting public figures against this wouldn’t be made but there needs to be something done with children and family of celebrities. (This includes award shows too)
I really enjoy the way that Bailey makes her content. Her delivery takes these really heavy and intense topics and makes it a bit more consumable. She doesn't show any of the graphic images of the crime scenes or anything like that. So I don't ever feel like she's doing these things for the pure shock value of it. You can tell it's something that she is genuinely intrigued by and is sharing what she's learned with the world. She'll readily admit she's not an expert and if she giggles because she's uncomfortable she'll call herself out on it and say "that's not funny, it just makes me uncomfortable". I don't get the impression she's trying to sensationalize the cases. I think it would be worth a watch
Yeah, I love how often she says "I'm not laughing because it's funny". I mean, a lot of people do laugh when they get uncomfortable so it's refreshing to see a genuine reaction like this in those types of videos.
The thing with Baileys content is it was jarring when I first watched her on only because I wasn’t used to it and your first video of watching a new youtuber is always a weird because you don’t know them or their content so that’s expected. But then you get used to it as you learn about Bailey as a person and know she isn’t doing it to disrespect anyone she just tell the story as if she’s speaking to her friend and I appreciate that but it all depends on how you like to consume true crime xx
I remember as a kid I wasn't a Britney fan but a massive Avril fan, and I thought it was one or the other. In interviews with Avril she was asked all the time how she felt about being labelled the "anti-Britney" and she was like, "I never said that. Britney's doing her thing and I'm doing mine". And that was the first time realised that women are pitted against each other by the media and generally lied about and treated like shit. It's awful that young girls grow up seeing this, and have to unlearn it. No wonder there's so much competition and jealousy among young women.
I feel like Cristine and Caitlin Doughty would get along concerning the interest in certain cases but disliking the hyper sensationalizing of it and disliking that programs act like the facts arent good enough.
Me and my roommate had a conversation yesterday that eventually led us to the discussion of the sexualization of serial killers. It started because we were talking about a curious dichotomy within her. She’s an avid reader and recently got absorbed in a very popular book series that has a big cult following on tiktok. It features male characters that display very aggressive traits such as over protectiveness, extreme infatuation to the point of harming others for the protagonists safety and well-being, toxic masculine authority over the protagonists actions and choices, etc etc etc. All in all, not an entirely unfamiliar archetype in many books and other forms of media. She and many other fangirls of this novel EATS THIS UP. They love it. She’s infatuated with these characters and this extreme fantasy DESPITE the fact that those traits in real life are her ultimate red flags. She told me that she herself doesn’t really understand why she LOVES these men in fiction when, in real life, they go against everything she stands for. The fact of the matter is, there are some people that are drawn to a very dark set of actions and behaviors and want to explore that fantasy safely. Hence why many people are so drawn to BDSM and choose to practice that in a safe setting with people they trust. So that they can satisfy that twisted fantasy. So those people that fetishize serial killers are just the EXTREME extreme end of this spectrum of people. They write to these serial killers in prison because, despite this being real life and not a novel or a kinky scene with a partner, they’re SO FAR removed from the situation that it’s essentially the same as fantasy. While, of course, poignantly ignoring these killers’ victims and the tragedy that’s been left behind in their wake... That’s the messed up part for me. This IS real life and there are victims whose lives were lost or ruined because of these sick people. I’d love to better understand the psychology of WHY people exhibit these behaviors and what past experiences one must have to lead them to such an extreme degree of dark fantasy. I can’t say I’m entirely removed from this discussion as I myself am an active member of my local kink community but that really is on a completely different scale than the serial killer fetishizers.
This is such a thought provoking comment. I think I'd like to look further into this myself as it is a curious subject. I could be wrong, however, this behaviour seems to be more prominent in females too- which probably offers just as many questions as answers to this equation. I'm unaware of what series you're talking about but, as you said, it's not something that's uncommon. Especially in YA novels targeted at teen girls.
@@paddycakes. it’s kind of concerning that without naming this book series, most people can already think of at LEAST one book series that fits the description. Why do authors push these narratives? Because they’re well received.... But WHY are they so well received though?? Why is it that these types of relationships are so appealing to the greater demographic??
If you look at it from the perspective of classic psychoanalysis, it’s because the pleasure principle and the death drive are one and the same. That is to say: we get unconsciously excited by the idea of death. The pleasure seeking part of our psyche does not have common sense, and the life seeking part has to keep it in check with reality. A lot of people (who I know, I’m not in the community myself) that are into the kink community or serial killers have some form of trauma or other mental distress. Our brain also has a tendency to want to repeat our trauma, hence why everyone knows that one person that can’t stay out of abusive situations no matter how hard they try. Kink is a way to heal and mitigate that desire safely. I’m not a psychologist, just a lowly criminal justice student, so I have no idea if that’s a good coping mechanism in the long run or not, but to me it seems to be harmless. Definitely the same force drives people to serial killers as well as to kink, however I would say that serial killers (actual ones, not fictional books) are probably far worse for you and definitely detrimental to society’s perception of crime.
I'm actually kind of like that, but I hate when people start romanticing seriel killers in the real world. I find that stuff really sickening when I see that stuff because I can't help but think about the victims and their families and what they must be going through, but when it comes to fantasy it's a completely different story. I sometimes read some fanfics that are really messed up, and I just eat it right up. I also have a creppy intrest in torture devices too and I will look up how they were used and work. I do try to think about the victims while reading that stuff.
The level of professional dedication it must have taken to continue speaking, instead of stopping to say, "Oh, big yawn, baby girl!" when Menchi yawned....such inner strength.
Really? I feel like the detective most interviewed really called out his superiors not taking him seriously and over looking the connections between cases. I also thought he was critical of the pissing contests happening due to jurisdiction formalities. I’m not one to take up for American law enforcement often but I honestly felt he seemed pretty humble about the way the case was poorly handled.
I think "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" is a really good representation of responsible journalism about true crime that actually ended in a conviction. Since it's more about the journalist and survivors, it doesn't seem as exploitative as the Cecil Hotel one or even the Night Stalker one.
Bailey actually has explained why she talks about the crimes the way she does. She doesn't wanna dramatise excessively and put weird voice effects to make it into a joke etc, but to talk about the stuff very "normal" and yet interesting way. I think she does a great job of being herself but also being a good storyteller. And what I enjoy most in her content is that she doesn't show the crime scene pictures. I can listen to the stories without having unnecessary gruesome pictures pop up and torment me.
I love Bailey and she is very sensitive to the victims. She is so kind and caring and if you love true crime, I really do suggest her content. If you start at the beginning you will understand how makeup and murder happened to begin with.
For me, the appeal of Bailey is that it feels like listening to a friend after they've watched and/or read about a true crime story. Cristine, you definitely seemed to understand that haha even though it's not your cup of tea. The nice thing too is that she constantly reminds the audience, "these are real people!" Which I greatly appreciate.
I recommend Netflix show “American Murder: The Family Next Door”. There are no interviews. It is told through the victims texts, emails, and voicemails. It also shows interrogation videos. It is really good and a really interesting way of making a true crime doc.
My mum is an official legal guardian, working for the government of Hungary, here it looks like: If your guardian is a family member they don't get paid at all, they don't get a percentage of the conservetee's income, they take on that role for free because it would actually be a huge comflict of interest if they got money for it. Their work is also monitored by authorities. If noone in the family takes on the role of the guardian for that person, a government official guardian is chosen for them. Those people get paid by the government, they don't get a percentage of the conservetee's income, in fact, by law, they can't accept any kind of gifts, financial compensation or inheritance from them because that would be a conflict of interest. Honestly, I don't know how it can work so differently in the US and other places, having some of the income of the conservetee is absolutely a conflict of interest and it shouldn't be a thing. Also, here the condition of the conservetee gets checked by professionals automatically every few years, a guardian can't decide for them if they're well enough or not, lots or professionals and a judge decides that.
My youtube autoplay played this after I watched 2 hours of Trixie Mattel to avoid doing my politics essay. It's like it knew I needed my favourite podcast to calm down and stop procrastinating.
Bailey saryian isnt desensitized she has needed to go on breaks and reduced her time to every other week causd it was getting to her. She says that she does her make up because she hated staring at herself in the camera and talking. But yeah i totally understand how it can be jarring to be talking to a friend and listen to true crime with graphic details. But i personally listen to it like a podcast. But having the personality of the person telling the story of these awful crimes puts a divide so that i am not so "omg the world is awful how could people do this to eachother" i enjoy studying criminalolgy but my emotional get in the way of just seeing cases all tbe time
For some reason, by the end of the podcast, I feel like yelling out AQUA-TOFANA!!!!! #BaileySarian But Seriously, love you, Ben and Cristine! Awesome podcast!!
I love how Bailey talks because that's the only true crime I can listen to without having nightmares. The way of talking and the makeup aspect helps disassociate myself from the brutality of the crimes while being aware about my surroundings.
Bailey actually started her Murder Mystery & Makeup Series by accident - she gets very invested in certain stories, and back when the Chris Watts case was current, she needed to vent and talk about because her fiance isn't particularly interested in these things the way she is. She asked in one of her usual makeup videos if anyone would mind if she got the story and her thoughts off her chest, everyone seemed ok with it, and the rest is history. It's a genuine interest of hers that just sort of took off lol.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS ON THIS EXACT MOMENT IN TIME!!!! After starting my RAI I-131 therapy preparation week, my energy levels have gone down significantly and all I was looking for was a calm simplyPodcast to listen to, to keep my mind busy. The true crime topic was just a very appreciated bonus. Thank you for making my day easier & greetings from Albania.
I really like Bailey's content. I find it refreshing and genuine and it helps me learn about cases that I didnt know. I feel the aspect about her doing her makeup helps me feel like its a podcast and I can do other things whilst I listen to her.
I really love you guys, but it's really clear that Bailey is very respectful and does her clear research. She's never misrepresenting the cases and is very respectful of victims. She's easily the best Creator I've seen balance the dark subject matter with her own genuine personality. It's why she grew so fast and why ppl watch her. She also uses her platform to speak on a lot of the messed-up practices in the criminal justice system and criminal investigations and even share current situations that ppl can help in (ie sign petitions, donate, etc.) when appropriate. She's mentioned in several videos that she just does her makeup bc it gives her something to do. I wonder if this would be criticized by people if she was doing any other tactile activity? Like maybe she was just drawing or doing a different form of art, would people still even see an issue? I've thought about this a lot and really wonder if it's bc makeup is still seen as a "vain" or "not serious" hobby, that it cant go with the hard subject matter of true crime? I don't think ppl would raise the issue half as much if someone (anyone- but especially a man) talked about true crime and sketched or painted for the same reason she does her makeup. I don't think there is ill intent in this criticism of Bailey's content, but it's flimsy at best and problematic at worst. I don't think she's the creator to be used as an example of dodgy true crime content.
My favorite RUclips True Crime content creator is Stephanie Harlowe. I appreciate greatly how deeply into a case's background Stephanie goes. I just finished her multi-part examination of Charles Manson and the Tate/La Bianca murders. I learned things about the Manson family I never knew about before. Right now Stephanie is covering Bonnie and Clyde and the reality of what she's presenting is nothing like the romanticized version most people, including me, thought was "what actually happened." I also appreciate Stephanie's love of history which helps with the accuracy of covering these cases.
I worked in a place called Reston Virginia when I was (much younger) and refused an offer to head to the nearest mall with some colleagues to watch some up and coming pop star. Turns out it was Rihanna, around the time Pon De Replay dropped 🥺
I’ve been on a true crime binge recently and I’m surprised in how caught up i am on all these. I particularly love baileys true crime videos cause of her little side comments and calming voice.
I suggest frontline documentaries if you’re into this stuff, they’re super factual and they’re free. We watch a lot of them for my CJ degree program. They focus a lot on what went wrong or why the stuff happened. I highly suggest the one on the Central Park 5, it’s still very topical.
15:00 So I'm someone who mostly listens to sad songs that tackles a range of topics such as loneliness, betrayal, divorce and abuse. The usual answer i give when I'm asked the same question Cristine asked "Where's the line?" is that I usually set some kind of condition or standard to be able to immerse myself in the song. For example, if there is no back story in the inspiration for the song, or if there is a back story but there's no ulterior message in the making or post release on the song, then it's fine. If there is no specific target, rather the song tackles the topic generally without ill intent towards other people then it's okay. There are times where I had to customize those standards per song, depending on their meaning but yeah. Ben saying that it is terrible to see mainstream artists exploit other people's emotions and suffering for their own gain is the main reason why I mostly turned away from western music. Yes, songs about the glorofication and sexualization of men and women exist everywhere, but I find that other countries tend to have less of these exploitations their mainstream catalogue. Id be curious to hear how other people chooses their songs in a similar type of genre 🤔.
I'm totally with you on how studying criminology and criminal justice has changed how I view media's coverage of crime and the consumption of true crime as entertainment. I'm planning on doing my honours thesis on how true crime podcast consumption affects people's views on the justice system, and eventually going to grad school to study ethics in podcasting and true crime entertainment. Thank you for bringing attention to the need for reform and change in how crime is discussed!
I think shane dawson was an unhealthy catalyst. Seeing crime and conspiracies become 'trendy' online and took it for himself to grow his channel and keep it relevant. He definitely created a new wave of followers who aren't properly educated on such things just seeing it for the creepy gory value.
In germany the public broadcasting Service actually has a whole show dedicated to cold cases. the show Even led to new clues and new witnesses turning to the police - and in my experience the show is really not sensationalizing. It is more responsibly and respectfully talking about crime and showing how the public can help solve cases.
@@amazingdanna Meghan Markle gets vilified to an absolutely astonishing extent in British media and on social media. I'd recommend that you check it out yourself, but you probably shouldn't. It's really disheartening.
@Izarim yeahh for sure it's controversial but I think it'll spark a great conversation as to glorification of the royal family and honestly the suppression and mental abuse of people in similar scenarios
I worked as an assistant prosecutor for a very brief period of time. After listening to your take on true crime, I have to say that I feel a little ashamed because working in the field had the complete opposite effect on me. I was only mildly interested in the past, but I quickly started watching true crime documentaries and listening to podcasts, mostly at the recommendations of my colleagues. People in the office got excited about that stuff, especially if it was something remotely local. Ultimately the job was not for me, but I still indulge in some true crime occasionally.
It’s heartbreaking that Britney’s “life” is playing out in the media, because more than likely we don’t even know half of the truth of the situation. She’s so much more than a celebrity, she’s a real life human being and deserves the privacy and respect we all desire. What she clearly is not getting now. The unhealthy level in which people think they are entitled to know whats happening in her private life, like they own her. I am so upset for her. I want nothing more than for her to have the privacy and respect she deserves, what we all deserve. If you want support her? Wish her well, see her shows and then just leave her alone!!! That’s a message to paparazzi and fans!!!! Let this woman live!!! Also Cristine, I am a huge fan of hardcore true crime too. There isn’t an interrogation I haven’t seen!! LOL Police bodycam and surveillance footage - all the real deal information that builds cases. I don’t respect the sensationalism, it’s so gross. It’s so disrespectful to all of the real people involved: the perp, the victims and all their families.
Delighted you guys spoke about how coloured the media's view can be on crime! One of the most important things to teach the young generation is that there is no such thing as objective media. It simply does not exist. Every single picture taken, ever, is a perspective of an event or situation. I studied photography and this is one of the first things I was taught. Nothing is truth, yet everything is someone's truth. Keep up the amazing conversations, honestly love your podcasts! X
The link between the topics is that even if something is in the media, everyone needs to take a step back and realize that actual people are affected by what's being reported on.
I could only get through the first episode of The Cecil hotel series. Seeing her family stand stoic and sad at the press briefings was the point where i realized i could just look up the ending to the case and try to honor Elisa’s memory by not giving it any more playtime. They feel you in with a damsel in distress then want you to forget about her.
Yeah, same here, although I did finish it. It was a cash grab commodifying pain. They did a really good job about talking about Elisa herself, but they have so much underserved credit to the “internet sleuths”
I love Bailey Sarian, she’s wonderful! I honestly prefer the way she talks about cases. She doesn’t over sensationalize anything, she just delivers the information in a way that actually makes me care about what she’s saying. Whereas if she were to speak more like she was just delivering a report or something it might make me feel super disconnected and not even care.
I'm glad you touched on the makeup true crime trend because it's something I've been thinking about for a while. I've never seen her videos, so therefore I'm not going to judge her character at all because I have nothing to go off of, but from comments I've read here it seems she's nice and respectful and researches the stories. For me though, it's the same thing Ben said about the true crime documentaries that glamorize these crimes: Would you show this to the family of the victim and feel confident saying this is your work about it? Or like in some weird cosmic way, imagine being the victim of some terrible crime and then someone on RUclips retells your story while doing their makeup or shopping or something. It doesn't sit right with me. I do agree that she's found her niche and that I don't think her or her fans mean any harm by it. I also think that it might influence more women to get into crime careers in the future. But in general I just think there's a more respectful way to tell these stories. I really like Caitlin Doughty (Ask a Mortician) on RUclips for that reason. She's respectful while telling stories of crime or death or "Famous Corpses", and always tells how things like mental health, sexism, racism, etc. play a role in the stories. She'll crack an occasional joke sometimes to lighten the mood which I think is fine, but I like the fact that she's looking at the camera telling a story seriously rather than doing something and casually retelling it. Idk idk maybe I should watch one of these makeup true crime videos to see what they're all about before judging them, but I just haven't for those reasons. Also once again I'm not coming for Bailey in any way, this is just my opinion. And sorry for the long comment, ok bye 🙌
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS! With both compassion and nuance. The cultural icon that is Britney Spears is so impactful and cannot be understated. Her influence on our generation deserves examination, from her skyrocketing to fame to her overly publicized struggles and eventual situation she is in. She deserves better and we have to talk about it!
@@joannasaadati8810 umm, have you seen the amount of hate she gets/has gotten. Not to mention she has not nearly gotten the same amount of recognition for her music since the whole Kanye incident. During the whole thing she had to go through so much hate and developed an eating disorder. Most people thought her music career would never recover, and it’s still not the same.
@@joannasaadati8810 she recovered and came back stronger than before. But for a moment there, she and everyone else were convinced she was done with after kim and kanye’s lies.
As someone who has gone through a mental health crisis like that, F@ the paparazzi, and just anyone who mocked that. I just cannot comprehend having that pressure while trying to crawl out of that dark place.
I see a lot of people saying “britney spears isn’t disabled so she shouldn’t be treated like this” but in reality its “no one should be treated like this”
Jessica Kellgren-Fozard has a great video on this topic! "Why #FreeBritney is a Disability Rights Issue"
I think this is a really good point.
Everyone already knows you shouldn’t treat people this way, but a lot of the time disabled people are seen as less than. This is the equivalent of saying “all lives matter”.
She may need special assistance, but her wishes as to who should help matters.
Yes, this. Under conservatorship I think Ben and Christine slightly missed the amount of control the conservatorship has over her. She can’t make those medical decisions herself, she basically has NO SAY over her life. That’s the freedom people want for her.
You should make a nail polish collection called Ben-to box with polishes named after his favorite foods and other stuff!
Oooo a humus beige 💙
I hope they see your comment, it's an awesome idea!
yesss!!!! thats a great idea! i hope they see ur comment
Omg yes. Ben-nana yellow
That is so cute lol
The difference in TikTokers and influencers and Britney Spears is that she never asked them to follow her. Often people like Addison Rae call paps on themselves, because it gives them more press. Britney never wanted that. Once she run into a coffee shop and asked the owner to hide her and her baby from the paparazzi. And you know what owner did? Not only he didn't hide her, but he was also taking pictures of her and her child, while she was crying...
I doubt addison called the paps when that whole crying thing happened. Celebrities DO ask for the attention. They know what they are doing. Don't try to skim over that. And they call the paps JUST AS MUCH. Celebs have whole freaking press teams to get their name out there. Influencers are doing nothing compared to celebs.
@@kaceeharrison3715 i haven't heard about that Addison crying video, but i feel really sorry for her, because no one should be filmed in a vurnable moment without their consent, but many infeluncers are friendly with paparazzi, especially with The Hollywood Fix. Bryce Hall who was with Addison even did a "prank" on the media with this pap named Kevin that he is cheating on her with Lauren...
@@magdalliee celebs do the same exact thing though.
Most celebrities do that, actually. In a lot of ways, it's a symbiotic relationship where the paparazzi get paid and the celebs get the publicity they need to further their careers. The problem is when the paparazzi step over the line or can't take a no. It's happened so many times, with Britney being stalked and driven to mental illness, or princess Diana being stalked for years and ultimately chased to her death on the streets of Paris.
@@magdalliee Pretty much every up and coming celeb, including Britney in the beginning, called the paps. Pap culture hasn't changed. They still harass and follow celebs, we just don't notice until it's too late. And magazines don't want those harassing videos to come out because they will come under fire.
Still think it's hilarious every time Cristine cringes when Ben calls the listeners "Super Simps."
Same! I cringe with her! LOL
Bruh! I cringe at her cringing idk why xD
I like being called a super simp. 😁
@@plumpy_space_princess heh me too its funny and its quite accurate, im a super simp for both of them 😌
What’s crazy is Cristine saying “we were 12 so it wasn’t as sexualized” but like britney was SIXTEEN in that video, she was a child and they were pushing her sexuality so hard
Cristine's disapproval of Ben saying "Super Simps" makes me laugh every time
I like it because we are simps, short for simply, but not the definition people usually use, just stans of cristine
I’m not a fan of the “super simps” label. I cringe right with her.
@@tatatory627 think of it like we are super simply stans but shortened
@Tabatory, I’m pretty sure that’s why he does it.
I am with her. Lol!
What I really enjoy about Bailey is that she does a lot of research on the stories she tells. Tries to get as much background information and is really respectful about telling these stories. I really enjoy her content
I agree! She’s also very respectful of the victims and their families.
@@Sarahkara1313 Agreed! She also mentions quite often that these stories are quite heavy for her, and she makes a huge effort to remain respectful in telling these victims' stories. I think she's great.
When Britney had her "head shaving" breakdown, the media consensus seemed to be she was a wild child trying to get out of a drug test. It was absolutely reported on with glee... "Look at the whack job! She got herself into this mess!" ... I liked her music, though was never a huge Britney stan, and I was disgusted by how she was treated back then. I also remember this show on mtv(?) that showed only paparazzi footage and the egging on and taunting they always did was extremely disturbing to me. It's not just a bunch of randos taking pics, the way the talk to the celebrities they're hounding is a bizarre combination of exploitative/sexual and abusive language.
I can see all of this now and it's incredibly disturbing but I first heard Britney when I was 3 years old thanks to my awesome 10 year old sister who knew what was up so it took me 17 years to fully comprehend how messed up all of it was
It was always disgusting growing up and seeing how they treated her and others. The music she was doing was far too sexualised for such a young audience as well but it sells. It makes the young artists seem promiscuous which brings on more media scrutiny in that regard as well. That doesn't help their mental health when everything they do or say is under a microscope and they're hounded constantly. It's horrible and paparazzi get away with far too much bull.
I never liked her music or had any emotions towards her tbh but what people have done to her was and is horrifying. She has been asked about her body and sexuality in so many inappropriate ways even when she was a minor. I remember her response was freezing when her breasts were in question. She never had any support but loaded with responsibilities. It was unfair and heart breaking. She sufferred and nobody in her inner circle actually cared.
Literally just nodding and smiling once in a while in online school so it looks like I’m listening while I’m actually watching a nail polish lady and her boyfriend talk for an hour😂💜
can relate lmao
Oh my gosh thank you for liking my comment simply or Ben💜💜💜I love the simplypodcast!
Wait did Cristine like this? No, must be Ben, right?
@@lou8391 probably
Cristine would tell you to stop the video and come back when class is over. Stay in school!!!! Aha
The whole time Ben was talking about Bailey I was like "..........watch it Ben....." lol
Lol, same. I was thinking about her through the entire conversation in general. They clearly have a huge overlap in audience based on these comments.
Bailey says that the reason why she does her makeup at the same time is because it feels strange to her to just sit and talk to a camera. I love her!
I also love Bailey. I think she presents her information tactfully and makes it interesting at the same time!
Also, it is because that's her way of coping with the heavy stuff she speaks about.
They need to leave Bailey alone. She is a queen
@@chrisworkman6783 they said in the video they had nothing against her did you properly watch it?
@@zumikokumi777 Cristine interjected and said she had nothing against her. But Ben was on his way to criticize her. Bailey has nothing negative to say about other youtubers. She states the facts of crimes and Ben was about to criticize her channel if it wasn’t for Cristine stepping in.
I really enjoy Bailey Sarian's content. I mean first off all she clearly does her research and gives context. It also allows me to consume true crime content without having nightmares because of her way of talking, and the fact she never shows explicit pictures for example. Also, I have ADHD, and she has a way of talking and explaining things that keeps my attention as opposed to others that will talk about true crime in a monotone voice or beat around the bush whilst barely giving any information.
I like Baileys content too, but I'm the opposite and I like the crime scene footage and police interviews that's why I find myself going back to "That Chapter" a lot of the time.
Good point 👍
I also enjoy her content, I think her story telling is very catching as she tries to make sense of the events that she talks about. Also, I agree that her way of talking as well as the make up helps to pay attention to the story and not feel completely tormented by it, so it does insensitises the events but not in a way that you stop empathising with the victims and the family.
I am not the only one that watches both!! Hello other sarian's, sister/brotherhood.
Okay someone help me here. If youve watched the ted bundy tapes or watched baileys video i think ted was classically handsome especially in that time. But mostly he got his victims not by being charismatic but actinf injured and needed help carrying things or in some cases he pretended to be a cop. But to my original point. Ted was handsome when his anger didnt change him. There were 2 sides of Ted from the court videos i have seen. 1st ted was calm and collected. 2nd ted was when his victim that had lived was testifying and she didnt answer the questions to his satisfaction only giving yes or no answers and that pushed him to anger and he turned into the monster as slammed on the counter in front of her and swearing at her. Does anyone else agree that he was handsome when the 1st Ted face was on?
Love love love Bailey. I love her sayings, especially 'get better idols'. She does her face whilst talking because she felt really weird just talking to the camera. She's an MUA by profession, so she wanted to do something she could just do comfortably whilst talking..I often don't watch because I'm doing my nails whilst watching! She does take breaks sometimes because the stories get to her.
Bailey can color match foundations like no one else. I love both her Monday and non Monday videos.
I do the same thing! I paint my nails while watching her videos. It’s my “ease into the week” time.
I love her, too!
Never gave her a chance because it seemed disrespectful to me. But as you explained it, the concept kind of makes sense.
@@denia1594 when I first saw her, I thought it was a bizarre combination. But I get it now, and I look forward to her videos.
The only reason why I like tuesdays
Same, this and frenemies
@@lauratoro1269 I love frenemies too 💕
Same here 😂
Tuesdays are great, this and Frenemies and Blood Bath, and This Might Get Weird on thursday. I have a few more I watch as well, but the 4 I named are the driving force in my life.
This and my favorite show...
The Bailey Sarian point is really interesting. I've been watching her true crime content from the start so I think I got used to her delivery as it evolved over time, but I can definitely see how jarring it could seem if you were to watch her videos now for the first time. I personally really enjoy her content but to each their own of course!
She said herself that her doing her makeup at the same time is so that she would feel more comfortable, she takes breaks since stuff tend to really get to her and she’s always so mindful of the victims. I think it’s more of a misunderstanding, since they haven’t been there from the start and therefore might not know the details older followers know, therefore find it jarring
The Cecil Hotel documentary was so disappointing as a true crime fan. It was just perpetuating conspiracy theories not evidence
Yeah I dropped the last 20 minutes. Not true crime really ):
Yes! I do think the conspiracies should have been addressed as such, conspiracies. So much was dedicated to that and not to facts.
@@Amandamml1 I think the conspiracies could’ve made a real mess too. Like blaming her for a tuberculosis outbreak? And claiming some random guy was the culprit without evidence? None of it sat right with me
@@Vallentiny I couldn’t finish it either :(
Putting your butthurt aside of how it's not as politically correct as it could have been, it was a great documentary that showed a clear and logical series of events, as well as shining a light on a guy whose life and mental health were severely affected because of the conspiracy theorists that were included in it. People like to write things off just because they've been made to be entertaining.
My problem with what Justin did was that he kept talking about Britney’s sex life, both in the sense that she cheated and just how their sex life was like, knowing Britney was under a lot of pressure to appear as a virgin. He knew he’d get props for it and she’d get the backlash. And he just kept talking about it, over and over, to build his solo career. Making the song was not really the problem (though the video was creepy as hell).
Although if he cheated in the relationship that makes the song a bit fraudulent.
Honestly, I dislike Justin Timberlake not only because of this but because of how he also handled the situation with Janet Jackson
@@pattymaldonado4209 yeah the Britney and Janet situations alone are questionable but together... yikes
I never understood why people even cared about a singers intimacy. Same with Paris Hilton and her video tape at the time.
I think media still does same shit with women, for example mysoginistic jokes about Taylor Swift or interview with Lindsay Lohan that went viral lately
what interview?
Well they also hyper sexualize teenage boys. I can remember as a teen watching this radio interview with one direction when at the time they were all minors and the interviewer asking something along the lines of "so....how many girls have you all had sex with?" "Whos had sex with the most girls?" "Who do you boys think has the most impressive package" and this was a grown woman asking. We have a whole culture of hypersexualizing underage kids. Expecting them to be sexy adults before there bodies are even done maturing
Absolutely, their point about Billie Eilish was a great example, no matter how much you try to focus on your art, as a woman or girl you won't ever escape those comments and treatment :(
Totally. The Lindsay Lohan interview was an older clip (which resurfaced in the context of how Britney Spears was treated) but Billie Eilish wore a tank top one time and was body shamed for weeks for -check notes- having a thin to average build.
There is also one where Scarlet Johanson is asked what underwear she wears under her black widow costume
I don't think her dad could have ever gained control if Brittney had been a man.
THIS!! The idea that Britney was unable to manage her estate but when men like Charlie Sheen and Kanye West have very public breakdowns they are never questioned in the same way. Absolutely asinine
Yup, basically. It's a shame so many women are treated like garbage in the industry.
@@cara1michele seriously.....Kanye needs some help....
@@cara1michele exactly! It's the continued toxicity that women need to be coddled and protected even if it's from themselves which is such nonsense especially when you compare her experiences to those of Kanye, Charlie Sheen, Shia LaBeouf, Lamar Odom, and the many other male musicians who have had severe mental events and drug benders. I'm thankful she still has her siblings (brother and sister) in her life and now her sister is legally involved because if she was an only child this would be even more harmful for her and isolating.
@@TehMomo_ agreed. It’s becoming heartbreaking
"Apologies to Bailey Sarian" Ooof!
I love Bailey so much ❤
The clip when that old host asked really young Brittney if she had a boyfriend, and after she said 'no, boys are mean', and the he asks "what about me?" and presses her for an answer was hella creepy.
Ben: "streaming services were supposed to restore order... they were supposed to bring balance to the content universe!"
Me, a Star Wars fan: oooooh, I see what you did there....
Hahhah in my case, I made a connection with Thanos and the infinity saga. Because of the whole balance thing
@@jovial.milieu oh yeah, that too!!
I think people like Bailey because of her delivery. She talks the way friends might talk about something and it’s different than other ways or documentaries talk about topics.
I agree! she makes it so that a story is rather interesting than terrifying
@@olaa4313 she doesn’t sensationalize it, and yeah it can be jarring to watch someone do their makeup and talk about something violent, but I do appreciate that she tries to give context and doesn’t romanticize the killers
@@siouxsie87 I agree
@@siouxsie87 there are also cases where she doesn't hold back her feelings on the case...if she thinks the subject is a dirt bag...she says it...
@@siouxsie87 her first MM&M was about Chris Watts...and it was more sympathetic to Shannan and the Girls than the Netflix doc...like truly making the future actions of Chris all the more disgusting...
sure it's a little weird having a woman be like..."i can't talk and put on lip liner" and then there's a jump cut and she's like "any way he is seen backing is truck INTO the garage" but that's part of why we like her...she IS different than mainstream true crime shows...
RE: Media after Britney,
I think what Cristine is getting at is that a lot of the older audience (parents of the fans) didn't know too much about what was actually happening and judged Britney based off of headlines instead of really seeing what was the issue and why there was a "breakdown". Times were different and though i don't justify it, i do understand that reaction. Many people weren't aware of mental health and stigma, etc. My parents judged her a lot too when the headlines came out, I heard a lot of "that's what she gets for being so XYZ" from a variety of adults.
Yeah, but it wasn't just adults. I ran with the punk kids, and we prided ourselves on how much we hated pop culture. Before it went way south and was obvious that something really sad had happened, we laughed at her. "Driving with a baby in her lap?! Is she mad?!" But the story got worse and we couldn't not care. And then it just kept happening. Lindsay Lohan, Amanda Bynes...suddenly there were a LOT of young famous women with SERIOUS breakdowns and it stopped being funny very fast. I think the visibility of it was what caused compassion to take over. There are some evil people in show business and they've done horrible things to young people and it's horrifying that they keep getting away with it (kesha, anyone)
We haven't progressed that much, I remember an interview with Scarlett Johansson, where she was being interviewed for her black widow character, she was sitting with Jeremy Renner, they ask him i believe questions about his character. But the interviewer asks Scarlett, "were you able to wear under garments?" And she says "you're like the 5th person to ask me that, what is going on?" So there's still a stigma around making women sex objects. The interview: ruclips.net/video/DHxzxgwJTFc/видео.html
"I have the right to take photos of people in public". You do NOT have the right to torment someone until they have a mental crisis. You do NOT have the right to stalk people for photos.
It's a very abusive mentality.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's the real problem. We need to stop people who can't understand where the line should be drawn by changing the laws to protect people who are being harassed. It's really a damn shame.
Some paps are so horrible. They’re so rude to the people who give them their paychecks, and they harass the people close to celebrities. I can see why laws protecting public figures against this wouldn’t be made but there needs to be something done with children and family of celebrities. (This includes award shows too)
Not Ben hitting us with with a star wars reference and cristine not knowing 😂
I really enjoy the way that Bailey makes her content. Her delivery takes these really heavy and intense topics and makes it a bit more consumable. She doesn't show any of the graphic images of the crime scenes or anything like that. So I don't ever feel like she's doing these things for the pure shock value of it. You can tell it's something that she is genuinely intrigued by and is sharing what she's learned with the world. She'll readily admit she's not an expert and if she giggles because she's uncomfortable she'll call herself out on it and say "that's not funny, it just makes me uncomfortable". I don't get the impression she's trying to sensationalize the cases. I think it would be worth a watch
Yeah, I love how often she says "I'm not laughing because it's funny".
I mean, a lot of people do laugh when they get uncomfortable so it's refreshing to see a genuine reaction like this in those types of videos.
Bailey always says a disclaimer at the beginning of her videos. She tends to try and avoid super disturbing details as well. 🙂
The thing with Baileys content is it was jarring when I first watched her on only because I wasn’t used to it and your first video of watching a new youtuber is always a weird because you don’t know them or their content so that’s expected. But then you get used to it as you learn about Bailey as a person and know she isn’t doing it to disrespect anyone she just tell the story as if she’s speaking to her friend and I appreciate that but it all depends on how you like to consume true crime xx
SUPER SIMP SQUAD!! Honestly at this point we can’t be called anything else lol we need some super simp merch 😂
I would rock some super simp merch!... I think ill make my own!
I would rock some super simp merch!... I think ill make my own!
I’m a proud super simp and I need merch right now
Bailey is incredible and does her makeup because it helps makes her comfortable during those hard stories
^^^
‘Dexter is a good show except the last episode’ -oh my god I couldn’t agree more ! Lmaooo I thought I was losing my mind
I remember as a kid I wasn't a Britney fan but a massive Avril fan, and I thought it was one or the other. In interviews with Avril she was asked all the time how she felt about being labelled the "anti-Britney" and she was like, "I never said that. Britney's doing her thing and I'm doing mine". And that was the first time realised that women are pitted against each other by the media and generally lied about and treated like shit. It's awful that young girls grow up seeing this, and have to unlearn it. No wonder there's so much competition and jealousy among young women.
I feel like Cristine and Caitlin Doughty would get along concerning the interest in certain cases but disliking the hyper sensationalizing of it and disliking that programs act like the facts arent good enough.
The dream collab 💀
@@writerspen010 the collab I didn't know we needed, but now I want
I would love a collab with them.
Simply deathlogical :0
I NEED THIS COLLAB TO HAPPEN OMG
Me and my roommate had a conversation yesterday that eventually led us to the discussion of the sexualization of serial killers. It started because we were talking about a curious dichotomy within her. She’s an avid reader and recently got absorbed in a very popular book series that has a big cult following on tiktok. It features male characters that display very aggressive traits such as over protectiveness, extreme infatuation to the point of harming others for the protagonists safety and well-being, toxic masculine authority over the protagonists actions and choices, etc etc etc. All in all, not an entirely unfamiliar archetype in many books and other forms of media. She and many other fangirls of this novel EATS THIS UP. They love it. She’s infatuated with these characters and this extreme fantasy DESPITE the fact that those traits in real life are her ultimate red flags. She told me that she herself doesn’t really understand why she LOVES these men in fiction when, in real life, they go against everything she stands for. The fact of the matter is, there are some people that are drawn to a very dark set of actions and behaviors and want to explore that fantasy safely. Hence why many people are so drawn to BDSM and choose to practice that in a safe setting with people they trust. So that they can satisfy that twisted fantasy.
So those people that fetishize serial killers are just the EXTREME extreme end of this spectrum of people. They write to these serial killers in prison because, despite this being real life and not a novel or a kinky scene with a partner, they’re SO FAR removed from the situation that it’s essentially the same as fantasy. While, of course, poignantly ignoring these killers’ victims and the tragedy that’s been left behind in their wake... That’s the messed up part for me. This IS real life and there are victims whose lives were lost or ruined because of these sick people.
I’d love to better understand the psychology of WHY people exhibit these behaviors and what past experiences one must have to lead them to such an extreme degree of dark fantasy. I can’t say I’m entirely removed from this discussion as I myself am an active member of my local kink community but that really is on a completely different scale than the serial killer fetishizers.
This is such a thought provoking comment. I think I'd like to look further into this myself as it is a curious subject. I could be wrong, however, this behaviour seems to be more prominent in females too- which probably offers just as many questions as answers to this equation. I'm unaware of what series you're talking about but, as you said, it's not something that's uncommon. Especially in YA novels targeted at teen girls.
@@paddycakes. it’s kind of concerning that without naming this book series, most people can already think of at LEAST one book series that fits the description. Why do authors push these narratives? Because they’re well received.... But WHY are they so well received though?? Why is it that these types of relationships are so appealing to the greater demographic??
If you look at it from the perspective of classic psychoanalysis, it’s because the pleasure principle and the death drive are one and the same. That is to say: we get unconsciously excited by the idea of death. The pleasure seeking part of our psyche does not have common sense, and the life seeking part has to keep it in check with reality. A lot of people (who I know, I’m not in the community myself) that are into the kink community or serial killers have some form of trauma or other mental distress. Our brain also has a tendency to want to repeat our trauma, hence why everyone knows that one person that can’t stay out of abusive situations no matter how hard they try. Kink is a way to heal and mitigate that desire safely. I’m not a psychologist, just a lowly criminal justice student, so I have no idea if that’s a good coping mechanism in the long run or not, but to me it seems to be harmless. Definitely the same force drives people to serial killers as well as to kink, however I would say that serial killers (actual ones, not fictional books) are probably far worse for you and definitely detrimental to society’s perception of crime.
I'm actually kind of like that, but I hate when people start romanticing seriel killers in the real world. I find that stuff really sickening when I see that stuff because I can't help but think about the victims and their families and what they must be going through, but when it comes to fantasy it's a completely different story. I sometimes read some fanfics that are really messed up, and I just eat it right up. I also have a creppy intrest in torture devices too and I will look up how they were used and work. I do try to think about the victims while reading that stuff.
I feel like we don't even grasp how insane 20+ cameras FLASHING at you constantly, day after day, must be so horrible and almost nauseating
The level of professional dedication it must have taken to continue speaking, instead of stopping to say, "Oh, big yawn, baby girl!" when Menchi yawned....such inner strength.
The night stalker documentary did not really address all the mistakes the police made which lead to the Night Stalker getting away
Really? I feel like the detective most interviewed really called out his superiors not taking him seriously and over looking the connections between cases. I also thought he was critical of the pissing contests happening due to jurisdiction formalities. I’m not one to take up for American law enforcement often but I honestly felt he seemed pretty humble about the way the case was poorly handled.
I really liked it-it was nice to hear it from the detectives instead of point of view of the night stalker.
I think "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" is a really good representation of responsible journalism about true crime that actually ended in a conviction. Since it's more about the journalist and survivors, it doesn't seem as exploitative as the Cecil Hotel one or even the Night Stalker one.
I'll be gone in the dark was really nicely done.
This is the only way I know it’s Tuesday and it makes my Tuesdays sooo much better!
Bailey is so good at telling stories, I really enjoy her content and she's aware that the cases are hard and graphic, she's not mindless about that
Bailey actually has explained why she talks about the crimes the way she does. She doesn't wanna dramatise excessively and put weird voice effects to make it into a joke etc, but to talk about the stuff very "normal" and yet interesting way. I think she does a great job of being herself but also being a good storyteller. And what I enjoy most in her content is that she doesn't show the crime scene pictures. I can listen to the stories without having unnecessary gruesome pictures pop up and torment me.
The last segment of Bailey Sarian actually intrigued me to watch a couple videos later. Glad I tuned in early for the pod!
I don't care that JT made a song what was wrong was hiring a Britney look-alike for the video. That feels more like revenge than art
I love Bailey and she is very sensitive to the victims. She is so kind and caring and if you love true crime, I really do suggest her content. If you start at the beginning you will understand how makeup and murder happened to begin with.
Yess exactly she started off being uncomfortable with the whole situation, talking about something so serious whilst doing her makeup
I watched every single video of JCS Criminal Psychology too it’s so good 😂
yessss jim can’t swim fans rise!!! desperately waiting for a new video
IN THIS HOUSE WE LOVE AND RESPECT BAILEY SARIAN
I was like woohoo.. I'll fight Ben. I really like Ben. But I love Bailey
Is Beyn intentionally saying Britney song titles casually in conversation? Toxic and Circus.. lol
More like Britney choosing song titles relevant to her life situation at the time.
I noticed as well! Haha! Don't forget "Crazy" 😋
And "Justification"
I watch Baily S., but really I'm listening and doing other stuff. Not usually watching face/makeup.
For me, the appeal of Bailey is that it feels like listening to a friend after they've watched and/or read about a true crime story. Cristine, you definitely seemed to understand that haha even though it's not your cup of tea. The nice thing too is that she constantly reminds the audience, "these are real people!" Which I greatly appreciate.
I recommend Netflix show “American Murder: The Family Next Door”. There are no interviews. It is told through the victims texts, emails, and voicemails. It also shows interrogation videos. It is really good and a really interesting way of making a true crime doc.
I don't think cristine would like it. It's not that great and it's not just the prosecution
There was a RUclipsr that made a way better video and they copied their style in the documentary.
Just here to praise how organized this channel is. You can click to the chapters you want and the overall professionalism is amazing.
My mum is an official legal guardian, working for the government of Hungary, here it looks like: If your guardian is a family member they don't get paid at all, they don't get a percentage of the conservetee's income, they take on that role for free because it would actually be a huge comflict of interest if they got money for it. Their work is also monitored by authorities. If noone in the family takes on the role of the guardian for that person, a government official guardian is chosen for them. Those people get paid by the government, they don't get a percentage of the conservetee's income, in fact, by law, they can't accept any kind of gifts, financial compensation or inheritance from them because that would be a conflict of interest. Honestly, I don't know how it can work so differently in the US and other places, having some of the income of the conservetee is absolutely a conflict of interest and it shouldn't be a thing. Also, here the condition of the conservetee gets checked by professionals automatically every few years, a guardian can't decide for them if they're well enough or not, lots or professionals and a judge decides that.
My youtube autoplay played this after I watched 2 hours of Trixie Mattel to avoid doing my politics essay. It's like it knew I needed my favourite podcast to calm down and stop procrastinating.
What’s the essay on?
@@tatatory627 marginalisation and social class and how it affects things like healthcare, education, a person’s future etc
@@rowenaleahy7631 sounds interesting! Good luck!
Literally, the ending of the Night Stalker case is one of my favorite things in the world. It's just amazingly poetic, and excellent.
Bailey says throughout videos she's only laughing or saying it like this because she's literally disturbed or shocked
It's just nerves.
Bailey saryian isnt desensitized she has needed to go on breaks and reduced her time to every other week causd it was getting to her. She says that she does her make up because she hated staring at herself in the camera and talking. But yeah i totally understand how it can be jarring to be talking to a friend and listen to true crime with graphic details. But i personally listen to it like a podcast. But having the personality of the person telling the story of these awful crimes puts a divide so that i am not so "omg the world is awful how could people do this to eachother" i enjoy studying criminalolgy but my emotional get in the way of just seeing cases all tbe time
For some reason, by the end of the podcast, I feel like yelling out AQUA-TOFANA!!!!! #BaileySarian But Seriously, love you, Ben and Cristine! Awesome podcast!!
I love how Bailey talks because that's the only true crime I can listen to without having nightmares. The way of talking and the makeup aspect helps disassociate myself from the brutality of the crimes while being aware about my surroundings.
I love Bailey Sarian! Best time of the week when she and you guys upload.
I skipped right to baileys part. I love her videos. 🥰🌟🌻
Bailey actually started her Murder Mystery & Makeup Series by accident - she gets very invested in certain stories, and back when the Chris Watts case was current, she needed to vent and talk about because her fiance isn't particularly interested in these things the way she is. She asked in one of her usual makeup videos if anyone would mind if she got the story and her thoughts off her chest, everyone seemed ok with it, and the rest is history. It's a genuine interest of hers that just sort of took off lol.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS ON THIS EXACT MOMENT IN TIME!!!!
After starting my RAI I-131 therapy preparation week, my energy levels have gone down significantly and all I was looking for was a calm simplyPodcast to listen to, to keep my mind busy.
The true crime topic was just a very appreciated bonus.
Thank you for making my day easier & greetings from Albania.
Bailey Sarian Murder Mystery & Makeup Monday. I really enjoy her content. She's super sweet. She has her own way to share her research.
I really like Bailey's content. I find it refreshing and genuine and it helps me learn about cases that I didnt know. I feel the aspect about her doing her makeup helps me feel like its a podcast and I can do other things whilst I listen to her.
Can u have an interview with Bailey about this? It would be really cool
I really love you guys, but it's really clear that Bailey is very respectful and does her clear research. She's never misrepresenting the cases and is very respectful of victims. She's easily the best Creator I've seen balance the dark subject matter with her own genuine personality. It's why she grew so fast and why ppl watch her. She also uses her platform to speak on a lot of the messed-up practices in the criminal justice system and criminal investigations and even share current situations that ppl can help in (ie sign petitions, donate, etc.) when appropriate.
She's mentioned in several videos that she just does her makeup bc it gives her something to do. I wonder if this would be criticized by people if she was doing any other tactile activity? Like maybe she was just drawing or doing a different form of art, would people still even see an issue? I've thought about this a lot and really wonder if it's bc makeup is still seen as a "vain" or "not serious" hobby, that it cant go with the hard subject matter of true crime? I don't think ppl would raise the issue half as much if someone (anyone- but especially a man) talked about true crime and sketched or painted for the same reason she does her makeup.
I don't think there is ill intent in this criticism of Bailey's content, but it's flimsy at best and problematic at worst. I don't think she's the creator to be used as an example of dodgy true crime content.
My favorite RUclips True Crime content creator is Stephanie Harlowe. I appreciate greatly how deeply into a case's background Stephanie goes. I just finished her multi-part examination of Charles Manson and the Tate/La Bianca murders. I learned things about the Manson family I never knew about before. Right now Stephanie is covering Bonnie and Clyde and the reality of what she's presenting is nothing like the romanticized version most people, including me, thought was "what actually happened." I also appreciate Stephanie's love of history which helps with the accuracy of covering these cases.
I worked in a place called Reston Virginia when I was (much younger) and refused an offer to head to the nearest mall with some colleagues to watch some up and coming pop star. Turns out it was Rihanna, around the time Pon De Replay dropped 🥺
I’ve been on a true crime binge recently and I’m surprised in how caught up i am on all these. I particularly love baileys true crime videos cause of her little side comments and calming voice.
I suggest frontline documentaries if you’re into this stuff, they’re super factual and they’re free. We watch a lot of them for my CJ degree program. They focus a lot on what went wrong or why the stuff happened. I highly suggest the one on the Central Park 5, it’s still very topical.
15:00
So I'm someone who mostly listens to sad songs that tackles a range of topics such as loneliness, betrayal, divorce and abuse. The usual answer i give when I'm asked the same question Cristine asked "Where's the line?" is that I usually set some kind of condition or standard to be able to immerse myself in the song. For example, if there is no back story in the inspiration for the song, or if there is a back story but there's no ulterior message in the making or post release on the song, then it's fine. If there is no specific target, rather the song tackles the topic generally without ill intent towards other people then it's okay. There are times where I had to customize those standards per song, depending on their meaning but yeah. Ben saying that it is terrible to see mainstream artists exploit other people's emotions and suffering for their own gain is the main reason why I mostly turned away from western music. Yes, songs about the glorofication and sexualization of men and women exist everywhere, but I find that other countries tend to have less of these exploitations their mainstream catalogue. Id be curious to hear how other people chooses their songs in a similar type of genre 🤔.
My weekly reminder that’s it’s Tuesday is here!
Early simp squad member here 😁🙋🏽♀️
I'm totally with you on how studying criminology and criminal justice has changed how I view media's coverage of crime and the consumption of true crime as entertainment. I'm planning on doing my honours thesis on how true crime podcast consumption affects people's views on the justice system, and eventually going to grad school to study ethics in podcasting and true crime entertainment. Thank you for bringing attention to the need for reform and change in how crime is discussed!
I think shane dawson was an unhealthy catalyst. Seeing crime and conspiracies become 'trendy' online and took it for himself to grow his channel and keep it relevant. He definitely created a new wave of followers who aren't properly educated on such things just seeing it for the creepy gory value.
Idk about everyone else, but I love when it randomly switches to the Cat Cam 💙😻😸
Oh holo I’ve just watched the Britney documentary today
Ben’s voice is so satisfying omg. This podcast is so underrated. I love just sitting down and turning this on while I do my homework. Woooot wooooot🥳
Finally somebody is talking about how bad was The Cecil Hotel "documentary"
I couldn't even finished it, it's criminally awful
Omg right? Every time someone pushes the paranormal narrative I'm like STOOOOP
Stephanie Harlow did a really good job of covering the case.
I’m so glad I chose not to watch. I had already read so much about that case it really seemed like it was going to be more of the same sensationalism.
i dint like how the polic3 has no fault
It was uninteresting and kept trying to connect things that did not go together.
I'm a total Bailey Sarian AND Cristine Stan. Cristine is the first RUclipsr I ever subscribed to. I love you both!
In germany the public broadcasting Service actually has a whole show dedicated to cold cases. the show Even led to new clues and new witnesses turning to the police - and in my experience the show is really not sensationalizing. It is more responsibly and respectfully talking about crime and showing how the public can help solve cases.
I'm going to need a video or a TikTok or a something of all the times Ben says "Hello Super simps" and the faces Christine makes at it.
My final exams will finish tomorrow. Can’t wait to listen to this episode after it’s over. #SuperSimpSquad
Goodluck!
You got this, super simp!!
Best of luck!
You'll rock the last exams!
Thank you all.
You guys should comment or react to Meghan Markel's interview with ophrah next
That was so cringe omg
@@amazingdanna Meghan Markle gets vilified to an absolutely astonishing extent in British media and on social media. I'd recommend that you check it out yourself, but you probably shouldn't. It's really disheartening.
@Izarim yeahh for sure it's controversial but I think it'll spark a great conversation as to glorification of the royal family and honestly the suppression and mental abuse of people in similar scenarios
It would be cool. They too are subjects to the Queen as canadians, right? :p
It’s a disability rights issue and no one is talking about disability which always sucks :/
I worked as an assistant prosecutor for a very brief period of time. After listening to your take on true crime, I have to say that I feel a little ashamed because working in the field had the complete opposite effect on me. I was only mildly interested in the past, but I quickly started watching true crime documentaries and listening to podcasts, mostly at the recommendations of my colleagues. People in the office got excited about that stuff, especially if it was something remotely local. Ultimately the job was not for me, but I still indulge in some true crime occasionally.
It’s heartbreaking that Britney’s “life” is playing out in the media, because more than likely we don’t even know half of the truth of the situation. She’s so much more than a celebrity, she’s a real life human being and deserves the privacy and respect we all desire. What she clearly is not getting now. The unhealthy level in which people think they are entitled to know whats happening in her private life, like they own her. I am so upset for her. I want nothing more than for her to have the privacy and respect she deserves, what we all deserve. If you want support her? Wish her well, see her shows and then just leave her alone!!! That’s a message to paparazzi and fans!!!! Let this woman live!!!
Also Cristine, I am a huge fan of hardcore true crime too. There isn’t an interrogation I haven’t seen!! LOL Police bodycam and surveillance footage - all the real deal information that builds cases. I don’t respect the sensationalism, it’s so gross. It’s so disrespectful to all of the real people involved: the perp, the victims and all their families.
Delighted you guys spoke about how coloured the media's view can be on crime! One of the most important things to teach the young generation is that there is no such thing as objective media. It simply does not exist. Every single picture taken, ever, is a perspective of an event or situation. I studied photography and this is one of the first things I was taught. Nothing is truth, yet everything is someone's truth.
Keep up the amazing conversations, honestly love your podcasts! X
I think Kendall Rae does a great job covering true crime. She often partners with families of victims and she donates a lot to related charities.
watch stephanie harlowe if you don’t know her already!! her content is so well researched it’s amazing
This episode was phenomenal. You so articulately and sensitively sliced down to the threshold of the ethical line on this topic. Kudos.
Yes! We need more people/ influencers to speak out on #freebritney movement!
So that Britney can get justice regarding the conservatorship
The link between the topics is that even if something is in the media, everyone needs to take a step back and realize that actual people are affected by what's being reported on.
I've been excited for this podcast since I seen the snapchat of you making the thumbnail yesterday!
I could only get through the first episode of The Cecil hotel series. Seeing her family stand stoic and sad at the press briefings was the point where i realized i could just look up the ending to the case and try to honor Elisa’s memory by not giving it any more playtime. They feel you in with a damsel in distress then want you to forget about her.
Yeah, same here, although I did finish it. It was a cash grab commodifying pain. They did a really good job about talking about Elisa herself, but they have so much underserved credit to the “internet sleuths”
I love Bailey Sarian, she’s wonderful! I honestly prefer the way she talks about cases. She doesn’t over sensationalize anything, she just delivers the information in a way that actually makes me care about what she’s saying. Whereas if she were to speak more like she was just delivering a report or something it might make me feel super disconnected and not even care.
I'm glad you touched on the makeup true crime trend because it's something I've been thinking about for a while. I've never seen her videos, so therefore I'm not going to judge her character at all because I have nothing to go off of, but from comments I've read here it seems she's nice and respectful and researches the stories. For me though, it's the same thing Ben said about the true crime documentaries that glamorize these crimes: Would you show this to the family of the victim and feel confident saying this is your work about it? Or like in some weird cosmic way, imagine being the victim of some terrible crime and then someone on RUclips retells your story while doing their makeup or shopping or something. It doesn't sit right with me. I do agree that she's found her niche and that I don't think her or her fans mean any harm by it. I also think that it might influence more women to get into crime careers in the future. But in general I just think there's a more respectful way to tell these stories.
I really like Caitlin Doughty (Ask a Mortician) on RUclips for that reason. She's respectful while telling stories of crime or death or "Famous Corpses", and always tells how things like mental health, sexism, racism, etc. play a role in the stories. She'll crack an occasional joke sometimes to lighten the mood which I think is fine, but I like the fact that she's looking at the camera telling a story seriously rather than doing something and casually retelling it.
Idk idk maybe I should watch one of these makeup true crime videos to see what they're all about before judging them, but I just haven't for those reasons. Also once again I'm not coming for Bailey in any way, this is just my opinion. And sorry for the long comment, ok bye 🙌
With everything coming out now the "the Britney spears case is very conspiracy theory esque" part did not age well...
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS! With both compassion and nuance. The cultural icon that is Britney Spears is so impactful and cannot be understated. Her influence on our generation deserves examination, from her skyrocketing to fame to her overly publicized struggles and eventual situation she is in. She deserves better and we have to talk about it!
Look at what the media has done to Taylor Swift and you'll see that nothing has changed.
She is such a good human being and her music is amazing, she didn’t deserve her career to be ruined for no reason
@@pengweng3795 how is her career ruined?
@@joannasaadati8810 umm, have you seen the amount of hate she gets/has gotten. Not to mention she has not nearly gotten the same amount of recognition for her music since the whole Kanye incident. During the whole thing she had to go through so much hate and developed an eating disorder. Most people thought her music career would never recover, and it’s still not the same.
@@joannasaadati8810 she recovered and came back stronger than before. But for a moment there, she and everyone else were convinced she was done with after kim and kanye’s lies.
Yeah but if you look at Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran, you’ll see that Everything Has Changed
As someone who has gone through a mental health crisis like that, F@ the paparazzi, and just anyone who mocked that. I just cannot comprehend having that pressure while trying to crawl out of that dark place.