I think that's actually a pretty fair point. Obviously FromSoftware has had years of hits to garner their reputation. That said, I still felt like this game wasn't getting the praise and love it deserved, and it bothered me. The FromSoftware thing is definitely a factor, but I felt like there's more to the story and that's why this video exists! :D
@@Bulbaf3tt”on par” Really? Dark souls 1, Dark souls 3, Sekiro, and Elden ring. You think Lies of Pi is anywhere near these games 🤣🤣🤣 Good game but ain’t on fromsoft level come on now…
I think it is beloved.. it has a massive community.. for a unknown developer I think this is a huge success and is loved. Also give it time, if they keep pulling this time of game out they will be at fromsoftware level. I adore this game. I personally enjoyed this more then any fromsoftware game and I’m obsessed with BB. Idk something about the childhood memories and then the difficulties it rwarding system. I loved learning the game and bosses. I just finished a Deathless run without fable arts/special grindstones/legendary weapons. It was so rewarding and feels so good when you’ve mastered the bosses. If they make a wizard of oz soulslike… I think I’ll lose my fucking mind. That is so exciting!! Great video thanks for the content!
Thank you for the kind words! As I've mentioned a few times in the comments, I think the best part about making this video is seeing how many people love this game as much as I do, if not more. Yeah I can't wait to see what they do with Dorothy and Oz and whether that's going to be the DLC or the sequel!
Eh, the community is hella niche and pretty small overall. The real reason, of course, being that the game attempts to copy the physical makeup of fromsoft games without the heart and soul oh the game philosophy involved in the aforementioned titles.
I share this sentiment. Lies of P managed to finally snag the crown of BEST souls-like and it was their first try at it, giving you an idea, how much the developers themselves cherish the genre. It's all about their follow up now and I am confident their next title will be even better.
Also lets not forget, Dark souls started off like this, started slow, not alot of ppl knew about it, but the ones who did absolutely loved it. I feel like its not that its not beloved, its that we are holding out to see if it gets a great sequel or it ends up like every other Souls like and just drops the ball. Alot of us are tired of getting hooked into a souls like, get invested in the story, only to be left hanging, no satisfying conclusion or any conclusion. The game is great, but I dont want to again go down the road of looking up lore, both in and out of game only to never see where it could go or it just turning to shit.
Same! I'm not entirely sure if its Game of the Year for me (Still got a month to get through some other games), but I think its by far one of the best games of the year! Agreed, can't wait for the DLC announcement. Maybe at the Game Awards?
@@jpesicka492 I could see Baulder's Gate III being a contender for a lot of people. I haven't beaten that yet, so I just can't say yet. That said, Lies of P is definitely GOTY material.
Awesome video! Lies of P was my first Souls-like game and, just like you said, I think going into it as a blank slate really helped me absorb the unique mechanics of the game and thus just have a better experience over all. I am also an animator and I agree with you that the animations in the game are absolutely gorgeous! Also wanted to clarify the "ong" in Ongbal is one syllable! (kind of like when you say Gong but without the G)
Thank you! Its so fascinating to me that Lies of P is the first souls-like experience for a lot of people. I knew the game was great, but I didn't think it would reach outside the souls like community. That said, I do believe that the best way to experience the game's mechanics, as you said, is to be "pure" and unencumbered by other souls like experiences. I am curious was it the animations/art direction that attracted you to Lies of P? I mean, the game looks and feels amazing. Also, Thank you for the correction. I've never been quite sure how to pronounce Ongbal, and will be sure to do the proper way moving forward!
@@hardreseto Oh yeah, definitely! I have always been afraid of Souls games because of the difficulty and to be honest the vague nature of the story has always kept me at bay. Lies of P's art and easier to understand story and characters has definitely called me in and the more I saw of the world and the more I got to know the npcs the more I wanted to stick around. The concept of a dark fairytale is just so charming and to be executed this well was astonishing to see!
Same here first souls like. I’ve been waiting for this game forever. I was hesitant because it was a souls like but I just love the Pinocchio lore. I bought Seikro I can’t wait to try this next. When my friend told me to play it like a fighting game it clicked.
Lies of P is beloved to me. It’s one of my personal favorites of all time. Up there with Sekiro and Hollow Knight. Fromsoft fanboys can try to deny it all they want, but this game is a masterpiece.
You BLEW my mind with the 'fighting game' analogy. It makes SO much sense. I can't play often, and it took me too much time to get used to the timings and small details... I gave myself time to learn and experiment, and now that I get it, I am obsessed with this game. This is an amazing video; thanks very much!
There's something deeply rewarding and captivating about this title. Like you, it took me nearly 60 hours to complete the first playthrough-and I was immersed and eager for more once I completed it. This is such a beautifully written, in an enigmatic way at times, story and world. I'm hooked.
I honestly think that if you take your time and don't rush through the game, you appreciate it more. There were definitely times when I could've forced my way past bosses, especially by using the Specter, but I learned my lesson from Elden Ring (where I regret not soloing more bosses).
I’m a die hard From fanatic, this was my game of the year!!! I can’t remember seeing such overwhelmingly positive feedback on a title in recent times, the fans are big fans!!!!
I think that's something that I'm realizing after making this video and seeing all the feedback from it. When someone clicks with Lies of P, they really do fall in love with it. Knowing that is reason enough for me to be glad to have made this video!
This game is far and above anything fromsoft has rolled out, this in 10 years will have the same love bloodborne receives. Play these games back to back and lies of p is a better game in almost every way but nostalgia is strong and it might take some time for the love thats deserved to come from the fans.
A key point is that, if you guard a bit too soon you have the ability to preserve some health and you don't get staggered, however, if you guard a nanosecond after the perfect timing you its the same as getting hit without attempting to parry at all. Another reason why its so tough
Yeah Agreed. There's also Red Attacks which are not dodge-able and can only be perfect guarded, which I didn't even mention in the video. But yes, the price for missing a perfect parry can be quite disastrous.
I feel like it forced me to not spam the guard button as much. If I missed the perfect guard I had to teach myself to just hold the guard down, then I can perfect guard the next attack and regain health. I had to unlearn what Sekiro taught me as a viable scapegoat option hahah
Y'all, the red attacks are easily dodge-able. You just run back wards or to the side. The guard mechanic is janky, tbh. Boss hotboxes are wildly unreliable, like WILDLY unreliable at times. So yeah, your perfecg blocks are often going to hit that "haha you shouldn't have even guarded" points often. It's not difficult, its jank.
Your description of weapon animations mattering for the perfect guard frame is something I kept feeling when I changed weapons but couldn't put my finger on. It's why I kept coming back to my comfort weapon combos when I started experimenting.
Yeah I think the first time I noticed it is when I ended up switching weapons for a boss, and found the parry timings to be completely different. That is one thing that I think makes you want to stick with a particular weapon or two, just because you get used to that particular speed of the guard animation and therefore perfect guard timing.
YUp, it's all based on the weapon, so you're not going to have a greatsword parry the same way a Rapier would. And then we land on the part were Hardreseto (lol cool name) lands on.. I love the fact you have to.. gear up PB
Sorry to burst the bubble, but perfect guard frames start with the same timing regardless. The very moment P starts raising the weapon, they activate. You then have 9 or 10 active frames for perfect guards depending on your handle, and that's regardless of whether you release or hold the button.
I think this is some really great analysis of the game, your words really resonated with me. I loved the game and in my personal case i came from a platform fighting game (brawlhalla 500+ hours) that really focused on learning key game mechanics. It also happened to me that i didnt understand the parry mechanics until i faced victor (before that i mainly dodged with some exceptions like archbishop) and the game was not really clear on how important parrying can be. On the otherside i reallly took my time to dominate every boss i almost didnt use throwables or specter due to the effort to collect them and the inconsistency that they could bring, so i really learn every boss to dominate its pattern (it took me an insane 90hrs to finish the game because i barely used tutorials until laxasia probably, the first chapters took me like 7-8hrs each and at the end of the game i was just sprinting through the levels). In every other sense i believe the game is a masterpiece (story, combat, gameplay) but i need to put an insane amount of time to really get the catch of it. Anyways, nice video bro! It makes sad that this game was not so appreciated as others, expected to obtain a goty or smthng but baldurs gate.... I am really looking forward to the dlc and secuel!
Loved Lies of PP. I competed many many playthroughs. I especially loved cracking the code on the parry system. So very satisfying. It makes me wish Elden Ring had something similar.
This was actually my first 'Souls' game (including FromSoft) and absolutely loved it. Found it difficult but fair and extreeeemely rewarding. Just finished NG++ and got every ending and achievement after almost 80 hours. Really looking forward to that DLC and sequel specially after that end-credits scene. Really great video!
Wow... Dude this was your first "Souls" game? That's amazing. You really jumped in on the deep end, as I'd say Lies of P is likely the hardest souls game I've played. You are a much better player than me! Thank you for sharing, its awesome that Lies of P got you into Souls games. Definitely check out Sekiro and Elden Ring after this! Also yeah, can't wait for the DLC and Sequel. And Thank you, glad you liked the video!
Sekiro was Harder in my opinion especially if you intentionally seek out and defeat every boss and mini boss in your first playthrough or maybe its because Sekiro was my first souls like. I love Lies of P tho, Alonso play the other souls games you wont regret it. Sekiro, Bloodbourne, DS3, and Elden Ring atleast. DS1 & DS2 are really outdated
i played elden ring for like 20 hours last year as my first soulslike but the open world mechanic kinda made it tough for me so i dropped it after beating few side bosses and the first main boss. when Lies of P released i was stunned by how good it was. it was kinda hard but doable took me about 25hours to beat my first playthrough and it was pretty much self explanatory all the way. a lot of mechanics added were really nice. but my fav part was the pinochio story that added a whole new level to the game and made it so amazing. still have to beat it few more times but im looking forward to do it
Yesterday I completed 100% of game and absolutely loved it❤. For me, as person who enjoy playing Dark Souls and Sekiro it is very sad, that other souls veterans didn't liked this game mostly because it doesn't have FromSoftware label. But, you know, Demons Souls also wasn't very famous until Dark Souls 1, so I think after some time Neowiz will give us another amazing games, which will be loved even by elitist souls players. P.S.: sorry for my bad english, I am not a native speaker.
Yeah I think the reason I made this video is because I felt like the game wasn't getting enough attention. After making this video though, I feel like the game is a lot more loved than I thought! Thanks for the comment, especially the effort to comment in English despite it not being your first language!
I did 5 runs to this game and I'm still thinking about it. Even might do another one because for some reason this game got me hooked! Each time I play I try different weapons and arms. Just plain good fun.
I finished Lies a couple of weeks ago (I want to say I was at appx 50-60 hours at that point) and have plunged into NG+ (currently in the swamp). I'm an enormous fan of FromSoft but have only played the genre for about 2 years. Lies is a atmospherically-rich, brutally difficult masterpiece, and worth every. single. moment. The more I struggled, the more I loved it, because it kept me engaged and excited about what I was learning in the process. That perfect guard window is a sliver, but when you nail it, life is good. And I am DYING to see what they bring next. Perfect assessment, and excellent delivery.
I think you and had very similar experiences in terms of the first run. I'm also slowly making my way through NG+, but you're much farther ahead than me! And yes! I can't wait to see what the DLC gives us. Thank you for the kind words as well!
Great review and true. I never really put the fighting game connection, but that is true. I don't really play Soulslike or fighting games, but I guess that did help me learn these mechanics pretty well. though like you I didn't use perfect guards on my entire first run.
As someone in which the games combat clicked very early on, I can say that i absolutely agree that when firing on all cylinders and in a groove it is as fun, deep, and rewarding as any souls title. Because things clicked for me so early on, the whole game felt amazing and i was shocked when so many people were not sharing my feelings and not also describing it as a triumph and genre defining game of the soulslike format. Because i feel into a groove so quickly i also chose to play no summons, no throwing weapon cheese, and even choosing to ban myself from the auto-parry grindstone and i genuinely enjoyed the gsme to the degree in which i enjoyed bloodborne (my favorite gsme in the souls genre). Stripping it down to only my skill against the bosses mechanics made in shine so much more in my playthrough. Not that this style id everyone's cup of T but I cranks the intensity and rewarding feeling up to 11 imo.
Honestly when I completed Lies of P and the credits rolled, I was just happy it was over. I recognized that feeling, I had the same feeling when I finished Sekiro. Both games are very good, but both frustrated me in various and different ways to the point that I never wanted to touch them again. And I'm definitely in fightincowboy's camp when it comes to the things I want in a Souls game, I want classes, big areas I can explore and get lost in, the ability to use magic, or sword and board, just traditional Souls mechanics. Lies of P has none of that, which doesn't make it bad at all, it's just not my cup of tea.
I definitely get why Fightincowboy doesn't vibe with the game as much. The man is superb at Build Crafting and min-maxing stats and what not. In fact, the reason I found Fightning Cowboy in the first place was because of his Nioh 2 builds. He also did some seriously broken stuff for Code Vein. And yeah, for people who enjoy build crafting, or even Strength based builds, Lies of P kind doesn't have a lot to offer there!
Yeah, there's a key difference many have either missed or aren't bothered by. Soulsborne games are "worlds" that you explore, intricate levels with secrets, short cuts etc Sekiro is much more linear and one dimensional. And Lies of P seems even more linear. Beautiful and stunning graphics and art. But it's a fighting theme park built purely for a game to be played in it.
Underrated content creator! I was watching the video then saw your channel and was suprised because the video is so high quality. You sound like a high-profile creator!
Thank you for the kind words! I actually only got started a little bit ago, so I think that may be why there's not that many views/subs. I've dabbled in Video production and podcasting in the past, but this is my first attempt at seriously working on a YT channel. Hopefully you'll stick around as I'd love to hear your thoughts on my future stuff as well!
Lies of P is the only non From Software soulsborne that has drawn me in as much as the actual From Software soulsbornes. I have beat the game (including the Nameless Puppet). I also started NG+. I plan on getting all achievements and am eagerly awaiting the dlc. Such a great game!
Yeah I agree. I'd also give Nioh 2 a shout out, but I'd argue that Lies of P is just overall a better game than Nioh 2 as well. I'm making my way through NG+ as well, taking my time and really trying to style on bosses this time around! :)
You really nailed why I struggle so hard with the parrying system after spending 200+ hours on Sekiro NGs... but I keep going at it, it's indeed a masterpiece
Great video man. I finished the game with 3 different builds and went to ng+2 with all of them. I enjoy the role play aspect of games. I went with a ckean slate state of mind and while it took some time to get used to it i can say that this sekiro and nioh2 are my favorite games ever. I think this game got loved by people who get obsessive with game mechanics and it seems we are a rare breed. Im pretty sure people who lived this game loved nioh2 for its comolexity. Too bad many people dont want to or dont have the time to put into this gem. Its a flawed, raw Masterpiece
I totally hear you about Nioh 2. I definitely want to do a video on Nioh 2 at some point as well, as that game has its own share of complex mechanics and ideas that are really cool. I was a bit let down with Wo Long earlier this year, but that's a conversation for another day. I think calling it a flawed raw Masterpiece is right. I remember how hard to get into Bloodborne was for me (It was my first Souls game) and how the beginning area of the game was the hardest challenge I had to overcome in the entire game. I think Lies of P isn't that harsh, but it could do a better job easing in players. I'm sure the next title will further improve on everything that was done so excellently here!
Aggreed wo long has cool mechanics but its flaws become glaringly clear especially on ng+ and above (although the latest dlc fixes a lot of these issues IMO). Nioh2 replayability is insane, word. I played that game for 3 years straight Also people always approach new games with premises like "oh its mecha sekiro or horror final fanatasy"or whatever lol . a good example was people complaining that sekiro is not good cause dodging is horrible (ring any bells?) When the first thing the game tells you is to block. I cant wait for the upcoming dlc and appreciate the fact that you take time to reply. Have a nice day and you earned a subscriber keep it up. Ps: sorry for my English it aint my first language Cheers
Lies of P may have brought little new ideas to the table. But it's as close to a polished, similar bloodborne-esque game we've gotten so far. And that just very much pleases an entire fanbase of bloodborne fanatics. You can pretty much accost the 1 million sales towards the bloodborne community. And there's nothing wrong with that. I've already racked up close to 500 hours perhaps. And that's simply because I'm getting a bloodborne sequel of sorts, and I'm loving it.
I think one thing holding back Lies of P from being beloved is the lack of ambiguity in the story and lore. Something unanimous between all fromsoft games is everyone gushing over the atmosphere and story that’s told loosely enough for you to have to figure out yourself. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Sekiro seems to be the fromsoft game least beloved for its story with most people only talking about combat when praising it, because it’s the most streamlined story that’s more overtly explained to the player. The soulslike genre in general is quite particular and niche and I think a lot of people expect an ambiguous world that they can get lost in and interpret for themselves instead of having this world explained to them and they just have to accept the objective story whether they like it or not
I can totally see that as a con for some, but I personally like the front and center storytelling style. I also am one of the people that really prefer Sekiro's storytelling style to any other From Software game. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Maybe that is a reason for certain souls fans to not like the game, for sure!
Never played a Souls like game before so went in blind. I was expecting a Devil May Cry run in and annihilate everything type experience....boy was I wrong. Kept getting wrecked and dying when fighting more than one puppet at a time. Don't even get me started on the first Boss Parade Master. I had to take a step back and almost quite the game all together. I realized that the parrying and blocking and more methodical approach is where it at. You are 100% correct with the fighting game comparison, need to pick your spots and not rush in. After spending some time grinding and levelling up I found a good rhythm and started understanding/using the mechanics. Now i'm 3 runs through it and about to start my fourth and have to say truly one of the best most satisfying games i've played in years. Haven't been this obsessed with game in a while, can't wait for the next chapter. Great Vid by the way, keep it up!
That is so cool to hear! Also I'm glad you stepped away and then got back into it! I can see the game being quite frustrating, but your experience with Fighting games definitely gave you the right approach to the game! 3 Runs is amazing! You went further than I did! I'm on my NG+ run right now, and I play the game on and off to stay current with it :D
I don't know who doesn't like it, but I love it. As far as I am concerned, it is the best "soulslike" I have played that isn't bloodborne. I just finished my first playthrough and will be playing it again for the other endings. I didn't feel like it was more difficult than other similar games. But different enough to set itself apart. They really knocked it out of the park with this one and I hope that there is more to come.
There is no way Lies of P is better than Sekiro. If you haven't played it, you should. It pulls it's main deflect mechanic straight from Sekiro anyway. Actually, it pulls a lot from Sekiro. The whole left arm and interchangeable combat effects you can have. I would argue that although they are different games in almost every way, it isn't better than Remnant 1 or 2 either. I'm not a huge fan of From Software games because of the repetitive and antiquated combat they have, but Sekiro is an absolute masterclass of a game from almost every perspective. To me, Sekiro is easily the best game they have made. I didn't play Bloodbourne when it launched, but I tried it and it just felt way too janky for me. I do want them to remake it so I can try it. The setting and everything looks insane.
@@georgen5882 I also loved sekiro but I should clarify that I don't really consider sekiro a "soulslike" even though it is by From Software. To me, sekiro is kind of its own unique thing that really stands out on its own. So I get what you mean, but when I say soulslike, I am not talking about sekiro.
Yeah I think some people will naturally just click with the game quickly. For me, I had developed some bad habits from other FromSoft games, and I generally focus more on dodging and dex builds than Parrying, so took me a bit to adjust to everything and just figure it all out. That's where a lot of the difficulty comes from I think. And as for more, its definitely coming. DLC first and then a sequel :)
Hit the nail on the head... the content creators that where trying to go as fast as they could lost thier minds instead of picked up the subtle hints and slowed down to figure out what works against each various eneimies... the practice dummies at the first fight in the game and at the hotel was SCREAMING figure out how your weapon WORKS... Yet, many didn't and assumed they were " EXPERTS" and got clapped over and over... once you slowed down and learned all the mechanics to the game ( so many different ways to fight each enemy between legion arms, throwables, parry and dodges) it becomes a fun, engaging beat down that is paced amazing between battles and beautiful environments with a few hidden areas or mental thought processes sneaked in... many these days want to be the "FIRST" at everything and prove how amazing they are instead of enjoying what they are doing... BRAVO TO NEOWITZ and You sir for giving a excellent explanation to the differences between players and these so called experts!! This was one of the first games I truely wanted to play a new game plus immediately after competing of the game and did over 3 new game pluses in a row... once figured out, this game grabbs you and doesn't want to let you go... if Armored Core didn't come out just after this game I would have spent hundreds more hrs straight... for those on the fence enjoy the game and learn this masterpiece!!
as someone who played several playthroughs of pre 1.3 patch and post 1.3 patch i feel like the nerf was too much. Its very noticeable how much more quickly elite enemies and bosses go down imo. I highly doubt this will ever happen but i hope they do a small buff to the enemies HP and find a good middle ground. I do ultimately like what they did by making the moves a bit more readable. It messed up my muscle memory at first with my parry timings but now that im used to the new timings its all good. I love this game so much
A part of me does wish I had been able to face the last few bosses Pre-Patch. Especially Laxasia, that whole boss fight was wicked awesome and pretty challenging even post-patch. That said, I still think the game is fairly challenging, even for Souls like players, so I still respect anyone who beat this game. Alongside Sekiro, beating this game was one of the most rewarding experiences I've had.
@@hardreseto Yeah that Lax fight is my favorite. Its so much fun when you get it down. I still have just as much fun fighting her in the current game. Shes really not much easier than before. I think her tracking isnt as tight so you can get away from danger just by dodging a bit easier and. Still still hard as hell and masterfully designed. Im so impressed with the consistency throughout the game with how good every boss is.
@@increase9896 the only problem with her fight is the tracking sometimes and how bullshit her dive move is (yeah i know its parryable but for how quick that happens its just too..............anime bullshit for me). ridiculous in my opinion. the tracking she has on some moves just looks silly for an enemy that has a huge sword and heavy ass looking armor. i still liked the fight though, just wish it didnt look as goofy as it does at times.
NITPICK WARNING, as a movie fan I pay attention to the details of a story in a game way more then I should and there were some things I could not look past in lies of p. I loved the ambiguity in the fromsoft soulslikes and I'm not only talking about the way the story is told but also about the way it's themes and the atmosphere are delivered to you. While fromsofts storytelling is more subtle I thought lies of p story telling was very on the nose and didn't leave much to the imagination which made the story telling feel stupid for me in the way it was delivered because I actually thought the story in itself was rather interesting. Another thing I could not get used to was the dialog and the way that characters were written. One stand out dialog that I can remember that always annoys me is: 'I know my way around a weopon!' This sounds to me like something a child would say and even then it would annoy me. Again, LITERALLY no one will get annoyed by this except me cuz I'm weird. Although this is just one example that came to mind I thought that a lot of characters had dialog that felt unnatural and dialog that didn't quite match them. Now I know that fromsoft games have had tons of characters with weird and unnatural dialog but to me that came over more as a joke or as a way to tell you that the characters are just as batshit insane as the world they're in. Didn't quite feel that way about lies of p. Now how this managed to ruin the entire game for me only lord Gwyn knows. If anyone feels different please try to convince me cuz I want to enjoy this game just as much as you.
I think the thing I mentioned about the story holds true, its a matter of opinion/taste. Some people REALLY love the Ambigious, hunt for the pieces storytelling of From Software games. I personally am more of a fan of just seeing the narrative up close, and if that means its a bit "on the nose" then that doesn't bug me as much. I also generally have low expectations when it comes to Souls likes and story, so I think Lies of P really exceeded my expectations. Also my favorite story in a From Software game is Sekiro, so I think its just a matter of tastes and what we each value in a game's story. Totally fine to not like Lies of P's story!
@@hardreseto oh don't get me wrong I don't necessarily mind a more upfront story I just wasn't invested at all in the characters and thought that the story telling was stupid which ruined it for me. There's a difference between an upfront story and an on the nose story for me. But like you said taste differs and nobody should actually be mad that someone doesn't like something or the other way around.
Well right off the top we already have a mistake that calls into question your knowledge of what you speak. 0:21 - "Some call it Soulsborne, others call it Soulslike" Except Soulsborne and Soulslike do not refer to the same thing. "Soulsborne" refers to the FROMSOFT games. The term originated when Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne were the only games of this type, hence SoulsBorne covered the whole genre at that point. It now also includes Sekiro and Elden Ring. I've even seen some try SoulsBornEkiRing..... but seriously, Soulsborne means actual FROMSOFT games in that genre. "Soulslike" refers to non-FROMSOFT games that are trying to be like SoulsBorne.
A few people have pointed this out, and I can definitely agree that it's a bit of an error. I've seen people use the term interchangeably. Thank you for the correction. While I can't quite edit the video without re uploading it, I'll be sure to make that distinction in the future!
I think you really struck the nail on the head with the point about how Lies of P borrows mechanics from Soulsborne, but employs them differently without explaining them that much. By borrowing so much visual and gameplay language from Fromsoft without clear explanations, they set an expectation and invite the comparison to Fromsoft's mechanics from the Soulsborne fans. People who approach the game without such expectations and have backgrounds in other skill-based fighting games might not have trouble picking it up, and might try to break the systems in through more thorough testing than a Souls fan who expected something more familiar because the visual language is familiar. If LoP had chosen to make their visual and game design language more akin to a fighting game or character action game, I think they would have stood out more and made their game feel like something more unique, merging communities instead of throwing all their weight at one community. Also, I see a lot of people in comments here and elsewhere say that if the game just had Fromsoft listed as the developer it would be beloved, but I think that's just fanboying. Brand recognition is definitely true, but Soulsborne fans are brutal to even Fromsoft games they don't like. There's massive criticism of DS2, DS3, and even Elden Ring's design choices. If Fromsoft had made LoP, I think people would still take notice of the more "derivative" nature of LoP's designs and mechanics, its more linear and obvious story, etc. Just my opinion.
I am a hardcore FromSoft fan from back in the days of Demon's Souls. I have played all of the Soulslikes and they have all fallen short of my expectations. Most of the time, it's an accumulation of little things that make the games just feel bad. Most recently it was Lords of the Fallen with it's floaty, skatey combat, close camera, too high movement speed and awful encounter design. It fell into the trap of trying to copy FromSoft TOO closely. It was dark fantasy, it had the cryptic lore, the "epic" boss battles; it was an imitation, not an innovation. Lies of P is the first Soulslike I have played where I feel like someone has taken that Soulslike formula and made it their own - there are even some improvements Lies of P makes, like leaving your ergo outside the boss room and showing you who has quests where and when. What I love most about Lies of P is the defensive options. It sits right in the middle of the Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Sekiro venn diagram. The dodge is better than the one in Sekiro, but not as good as the one in Bloodborne. The block is not as good as the one in Dark Souls, but it has the rally mechanic from Bloodborne. The parries are easier to get than in Sekiro - not quite as rewarding - but they are also not the only option. You can beat bosses without staggering them, a system Sekiro lacks. Lies of P beautifully blends Soulslike mechanics with their own tweaks. Rather than trying to do everything a FromSoft game does - and thereby risking direct comparisons - they weren't afraid to deviate. I'm glad a good, challenging, rewarding Soulslike finally exists. I want more developers who can compete with FromSoft, I want more great Soulslikes. So for me, Lies of P is beloved.
I really want to commend you on the breakdown of Lies of P's defensive options, and especially your rather apt comparison to Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro. That mix and match, coupled with some really interesting and unique adjustments, make for a really interesting and unique experience. I agree, the biggest win with Lies of P is just getting something as good as a From Software game. Competition is great for players, as I can only imagine how From Software is going to continue to innovate as well!
Looking at negative reviews, what’s interesting is one common complaint is that red attacks are too punishing because they can’t be dodged. The thing is, you demonstrate at 11:24 that red attacks *are* dodgable. But because the game’s text box-at least at first, I don’t know if they’ve changed it by now-uses the words “can’t be dodged”, it apparently makes people not even try. They are dodgable, but what the game means is that they aren’t “i-frame-able”. I think things like this, plus the fact that these critics are more actively searching for things to critique *because* it doesn’t have the From logo at the start, compound the negative voices towards this game. I think if you discard these “wrong opinions” about the game, things like “this or that is broken”, or “the parry frames must be extended”, it’s easier to see that Lies of P is actually beloved the way it should be. It just has a stigma about it, being “objectively harder” than Sekiro by a few frames, and not being made by From, that makes more gamers, than there normally would be, feel justified about giving false critiques. Like, they did listen to the community and agree that the player should start with the ability to roll out of being knocked down. They *did* fix the game. It’s a “better” game now. But we’ll still get complaints. Lies of P is amazing. It sucks that certain From fans seemed to learn some behaviors from Nintendo fans. There’s this one review I saw that literally says “playing Lies of P is like eating vegetables.” Fucking lol. That’s why I put less weight on negative criticisms for this game.
Yeah I think that's the one thing that the dev teams can work in their future games: Explaining their mechanics and perhaps giving more learning opportunities. To be fair to them, From Software was not great at this either when they started, and people slowly developed the skills to play their games and what not. And of course, now in Elden Ring the onboarding process for the game is great, so yeah. As a first effort, I'd say Lies of P is pretty darn amazing.
If there was a way to fight the bosses again after u beat them I would be so happy. I’m in love with game and ONGBAL has inspired me to try to get on his level. The R2 parry on Two Dragons Sword is more satisfying then the whole game of Elden Ring.
I think ONGBAL's videos is the reason I got decent at some of the bosses. In my NG+ Run i'm trying to dominate all the bosses with the Dragon's Sword in a similar way to how he did. And I have to agree, The Dragon's Sword is THE weapon. Its hands down the best weapon I've used in a Souls game.
Not engaging in perfect guarding is a super valid way to play. I didn't bother with blocking or perfect guarding and used rolling for just about all defensive purposes - I triggered staggers by using charged blows. I didn't find the game easy by any means, but it was mostly smooth sailing. Also Sekiro isn't a souls-like game and no one would call it one if From didn't make it, so I find any comparisons to Sekiro are pretty much irrelevant.
Man it's just such a perfect game I have basically no complaints. I do wish some skills were better or replaced with better ones at least but this game is a gem and fs has some serious competition ahead of them.
I agree. I also have to say that the weapons in this game are some of the most fun ones I've ever had the pleasure of using. I also am sure that FromSoftware is going to dazzle us with the Elden Ring DLC when that comes. We souls like fans are just going to have TWO sources of great fun.
@@hardreseto what a time to be a souls like fan haha but yes I'm definitely hyped to get 2 different companies that make high quality fs level games😭 both dlcs are gonna be epic fasho
Personally I think that if your a heavy Sekiiro enjoyer then you'll like Lies of P(The new/changed systems are a big plus). As for a heavy demon souls/dark souls/bloodborne/elden ring enjoyer, most likely not so much. It doesn't really allow the player to do extremely different things in order to win (Such as buffing up so much you one shot the boss, stunning the boss into submission by constant aggression, or fat tanking everything). It would be more akin to say your permanently stuck on a DEX build(Strength build in Lies of P is very unenjoyable, I also beat it with an advance build which was also an absolutely poor decision).
As much as I liked the vibes of Elden Ring I think Lies of P is a MUCH more solid package. I really love it. I just went back to it last night and it is the most I’ve liked a Souls style game since Bloodborne. For my personal tastes it checks all the boxes and was very memorable.
Thank you for saying that! I was actually a bit worried I went too into the weeds there. Glad to hear you liked the breakdown. Gives me confidence to highlight those kind of things in future videos!
video is on point and i agree almost with every comment. at first I was frustrated playing this game due to my FromSoft knowledge...kept trying to play it like I would bloodborne,sekiro, or dark souls. once the gameplay *clicked* and i realized I needed to treat it like its own thing, I fell in love. its honestly as good as top tier from soft games. Completed the game 4 times already. btw, what is the song at the end of your video?
Yeah, I had a similar bit of adjustment, realizing that there were a lot of original, unique mechanics and systems in the game. As for the music, its a Royalty Free Track I got for the channel and then customized a bit. Glad you like it! :)
I personally loved Lies of P it was a truly great game i do play a lot of different games as well as having beaten Elden ring i will say the transition from dodging perfectly to parrying perfectly was something to get used to it didn't take that long and the game was really fun one you get properly used to the mechanics though i would have enjoyed and played the game regardless of popularity as i have known about and been patiently waiting for the games release for years now and i was not disappointed in the slightest with how it turned out as its now one of my favorites.
I think that diversity in your games experience might be one of the reasons why the game resonated so quickly with you, perhaps quicker than even my own experience. Yeah I also kept my eye on this game since it was announced a while ago, but its safe to say it far exceeded those initial expectations. Agreed, There's only two games that I view on the same level as a FromSoftware game, and this is one of them.
Agreed. And I have to say, those are my three of my favorite souls games as well. I'd probably give the other two spots to Nioh 2 and Elden Ring to round out a top 5!
@@hardreseto to round out my top five, I’d have to go with Code Vein (the combat elements were really cool and unique, underrated level design too) and DS1 (sorry, the nostalgia took over…) Seriously though, I never thought a game could rival Fromsoft but wow, Neowiz made a masterpiece. I can’t believe I was so doubtful until I picked it up!
Never played a souls-like, but I absolutely love this game! Only started to lose interest after my second time through newgame+. Dodging + items + regular blocks made it very accessible until the game finally forced me to learn how to perfect guard. But by then I was hooked and understanding that system was fun.
I really love your take on this, and I agree 💯 percent. The only thing I would have mentioned is that unlike a lot of souls likes this game actually had a Demo. Unlike Lords Of Fallen which sorely needed one or a Beta before it dropped.
That's a solid point. I actually tried Lies of P for the first time with the demo (Only beat the first boss though, and decided to save the rest for the full game). And Thank you for the kind words!
made it to the end, just after making DS3 and Elden Ring... and loved it so much, for everything (gameplay, story, artistic direction, ...). Thanks for the video!
I think it's getting the love it deserves man, but it's hard to be praised in this last 2 years when competing for praises against Zelda, elden ring and baldur's gate. I def loved this game, but it felt maybe too short, too small and not that hard at all. However I'm eager too see more of it because it has great potential.
I think that's an excellent point, especially with regards to this year alone. I think for me, I just felt like the game deserves a bit more love, especially from fans of the genre, people who really play these type of games. The one thing that's been great about making this video is seeing how many people really do enjoy and love this game. I too am excited for what comes next from these two teams!
At the start of the game I found it pretty easy compared to the other souls games, probably because the start isn't as cheesy "Here's an impossible boss now be an expert or die" moment, however, as the game progressed the challenge felt more and more, frustrating, but enjoyable once I beat the boss, as you said, the optional final boss was a beast, made me stop trying to hit and run (that's how I dealt with Laxasia) and made me actually go in and trade with him and actually parry him, it was really fun.
SoulsBorne is specifically referencing the FromSoft catalogue of games that fall into the Dark Souls style of game whereas Soulslike refers to any game not made by From but using their game design methods.
Lies of P is a gorgeous game but I'll agree that it has some problems with accessibility. When I first played the demo I found it frustrating, because I was trying to play it like a Dark Souls game and it wasn't clicking at all. That is, until I learned that the game really wants you to engage with its parrying mechanics and I finally "got" it. Played through the demo twice again after that, bought the game and loved it. My first playthrough took about 45 hours, so right in between that "average" and your play time. A major thing that separates Lies of P from FromSoft's games is that you can't really cheese your way through boss fights. In most Souls games, you can kind of kludge your way through on the first playthrough and then defer proper learning until NG+. That's a lot less viable in Lies of P. Most boss fights took me 1-2 hours to complete, with me having to really learn the parry timing for most moves and pretty much mastering the whole fight before being able to finish it. That's a lot to ask for a lot of players. Afterwards I saw that you can in fact cheese a lot of bosses by abusing consumables, which are quite powerful in this game, but I don't think many players will discover that easily on their own.
Excellent point on Bosses, both in terms of not being able to cheese them via the standard methods, and then also pointing out that consumables are pretty OP. I didn't use consumables enough and realized late in the game that I could've made my life pretty easy.
I don't think your arguments make sense. The mechanics in Bloodborne and Sekiro are different than Dark Souls, and even Dark Souls 3 / Elden Ring are different than DS1 and 2. So you're saying that people could adapt to all these changes, but not the Lies of P mechanics? I don't think that is logical. I think you're missing more obvious reasons why Lies of P isn't as well celebrated: The setting is less appealing to people. Dark Souls is essentially your typical fantasy RPG, except with real-time combat that is far better than anything before it. It has that dark fantasy atmosphere that people look for. Bloodborne is to Call of Cthulhu what Dark Souls is to D&D. Sekiro is Samurais. Ghost of Tsushima was extremely popular and beloved - also Samurai. People like Samurai. Samurai sells. Cthulhu sells. D&D sells. Unfortunately, French steam puppet Pinocchio does not sell as well, particularly coming out just after a Pinocchio movie. It's not that anyone thinks it's a bad game, it's just a less appealing setting. Look at all the attention Lords of the Fallen got, despite being a much worse game. It had that Soulsborne atmosphere that Lies of P only partly captured. All that said, remember that Dark Souls was not popular when it first launched. It took a few years. I expect people will pick up Lies of P on sale, and like it when they give it a chance. I fully expect it to see it topping many of those "Best games you never played" lists next year and onwards.
I also think its because mecha and "puppets" are more niche in Japan. Armored core 6 is amazing but nowhere near as popular compared to the other FS games. I bought Lies of P blind and didnt realize there are other enemies like corpses and humans you fight. Even my niche game I love Steel Rising fell under the radar really quick despite being souls like.
I'm not sure if I'd say my arguments don't make sense, but I think you do bring up a good point. The setting is definitely going to be a turn off for some. But I feel like if you liked Bloodborne, there's a chance you'll like Lies of P as well. To me, the art direction and atmosphere of Lies of P is pretty impressive, so I guess I never looked at that as a con. Thanks for sharing that perspective!
Will people get mad at me if I say “I Think Lies Of P is better than DS1, D2, (debating on 3), and Sekiro, and maybe even Elden Ring” (also mainly because LOP is shorter and in my opinion has a lot more consistent enjoyment then ER)
I mean, I wouldn't worry, I can totally see some people liking Lies of P quite a bit more than even some From Software games. I mentioned in the video that Lies of P does some things actually better than From Soft even, so its entirely possible to like LoP more. That said, for me, personally, I think I like Elden Ring more just because there's more build variety, secrets and scale. That said, I could totally see Round 8 Studio and Neowiz doing even better in the sequel that they announced!
You get the feeling that FromSoft games are sacred, and to say that Lies of P does some things even better is blasphemy of the worst kind. But honestly, I felt the same way. For me, Lies of P scratches the surface of perfection. In Elden Ring, the level design of the endgame has not completely convinced me and recycling some bosses was also a bit underwhelming at some point. However, Elden Ring is a clear 10/10 game, no question. But my favorite FromSoft games are DS3 and Bloodborne so far. These also border on perfection and can therefore be mentioned in the same breath as Lies op P in my opinion.
@@xxxxx7xxxxx1 my ranking would probably be 1: Bloodborne 2: Lies Of P 3: Dark Souls 3 DS3 has everything great about soulgames with a lot of enjoyment and nice and open but not too open either. And I don’t think I have to explain myself for Bloodborne
@@spinebot7556 It's nearly impossible to rank these 3 games as they are all on the same level for me. DS3 has a special place in my heart because it's my first souls-experience and I was so proud after reaching the end of the game.
@@xxxxx7xxxxx1 Also (this is just another thought I had) I think other than Godfrey and The Elden Beast, all the bosses in DS3 were better than the bosses in ER
Honestly I was very disappointed at youtubers/streamers I follow give this game low scores, especially Rurikhan and Fighting Cowboy, and then actually give Lords of the Fallen a high review to the point of Fextra calling it the best soulslike. That game is horrendously bad I honestly can't believe people enjoyed it. While this literal masterpiece of a game was not getting the praise it actually deserved. Lies of P DLC will skyrocket it to FS level, and promised sequal will improve much. It's already a 9/10. We actually have a FS competitor here and if this is their first try imagine what could they do with experience.
I think the bigger issue is with the state of soulslikes in general. The fact that fromsoft has most of these concepts in its own games and explored them pretty thoroughly kinda holds this game back even though it’s pretty incredibly put together. It’s just that fromsoft pretty much fully explored this genre so much so that they had to make a gigantic open world game just for it to feel slightly new.
I don't disagree that From Software is ahead. There's nothing quite like Elden Ring. That said, no one has gotten this close, to what they do. And since FromSoftware is only one team, I welcome more experiences like there's in the gaming landscape!
I think this is where the most important thing becomes the world and story. That's part of what I liked so much about lies of P, because it's world was so interesting and kept me looking at every little thing, and *different* from what we've seen in fromsoft's games. There's a lot of potential there as long as the gameplay holds up.
Honestly? Despite playing through all of the DS games, I could not really get into ER. I feel like FS actually lost a part of what made their earlier games great with ER. LoP isn't the same as the old games, but I feel it's closer in some ways.
The "soulslike" term is a subgenre that people enjoy, it not a one and done thing, the fun is exploring these different settings and worlds the different mechanics and bosses and enemies and stories, in the end its a 3rd person action rpg, just because other devs have made other 3rd person action RPGs doesn't mean there's no need for more, genres and subgenres exist for a reason. I like the formula created by Fromsoftwere a lot and I don't care how many are made as lomg as they nail the formula well and making engaging worlds for me to experience, it's the same reason why I like metroidvania's and fighting games. Fromsoftwere never created a steampunk game set in 1900 france inspired by the story of Pinocchio that's a completely different setting, world, and theme.
I’ve played through the game 5 times at this point. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I love it, so much so that it has a place in my personal top 5 favorite games of all time.
Since Sekiro I've enjoyed the parry centric combat style. I became interested in LoP after watching Ongbal play the demo. I always pronounced it "Ong" as in "bong" without the "b" and "ball," but I have never heard an official pronunciation. After playing the demo at least 3 times and NG+4 with almost 200 hrs, this is one of the best games I've played in years. I am starting to step back from it making time for SF6 again. I don't think you have to be fighting game player to like this game but I do fall into that category. I frankly don't think it matters much if some Fromsoft content creators don't like LoP much. LoP has made good sales, gained a lot of fans, on Steam all reviews is at "Very Positive" and on Twitch it is still being streamed with thousands of viewers 2 months after release.
Yeah Sekiro was the game that got me into parrying. I do find it funny that more games are doing Parry Systems now (even God of War Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 had parry systems). "Ong"ball seems to be the accepted pronunciation. A few people have already mentioned that same pronunciation. I'll make sure to say it properly in the future! And I agree, I don't think you NEED to be a fighting game player, but I think people who play fighting games are just suited to dig deeper into Lies of P and unearth all its mechanics. Its more of how you approach games and sit with them, rather than any kind of mechanic overlap. I need to get back into SF6, that game is definitely intense with all the new mechanics and what not! I agree, I think it doesn't matter whether FromSoft fans like the game or not, but it was still a question that bugged me a bit. In terms of success, Lies of P definitely did well, but I dunno, I see people praising Lords of the Fallen and it hurts me a bit to not see Lies of P get some love :D
I've have not played LotF or plan to unless it drops a lot in price. From the reviews I've seen I don't think I would like it. There are a lot of technical issues, and questionable design choices. @@hardreseto
Such a good, well written and well presented video. Keep offering quality presentation like this and your sub count is guaranteed to rise rapidly. Well done!
Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm honestly blown away by the positive feedback on this video. I'm already working on a few others, so I hope to get your thoughts on the next one!
Honestly: Great review. I think you did a great job explaining why Lies of P is hard to get into even as a Soulbourne Vet. I bought and play every Soulsgame twice and play Sekiro once a month and Lies of P feels like a straight up Fromsoft game. If the combat doesn’t click I can imagine that your points are all right, but I personally found the games systems just as complicated as in other Soulsbourne games. I have 3 playthorughs on record, my first took me about 17 hours, my second normal one about 12 as I knew where to go and what weapon to use and where to find upgrades. But the NG+ ones? My god. I wanted the platinum so I speedran the game and holy shit some bosses like king of puppets or the swamp monster SPIKE HARD in difficulty. It took me 10 hours while running through every level and just killing bosses. The perfect guard really becomes important, dodging just doesn’t cut it anymore because 1 fuck up usually means your very low on health or dead. But even her: It felt fair and just as hard to master as every other fromsoft game. My only real complaint about this game is the abhorrent tracking on some enemy attacks and some animations like Simon manus‘ jump attack are pretty bad and it becomes a memory game of when to parry. But all in all I just think LoP is not that praised bc many play it like a soulsgame, as you said. But learning it isn’t really much harder than any other souls game.
Thank you for the kind words! As for the difficulty of the game, I'm inclined to say that you're naturally just talented at Video games, if not Souls likes specifically. Different strokes for different folks of course. I may be getting older in my thirties haha, slower reaction times and what not, but I still had a great time with the game. I haven't hit NG++ but just NG+ has been a lot more challenging and I've had to basically make sure I make less mistakes. Its actually really fun in its own way, and I'm savoring going through the game a second time. I do agree that a lot of the late bosses become more or less about pattern memorization, but I honestly didn't mind it as much because I feel like some of the optional bosses in Sekiro were like that too (I remember how long I spent on the Owl Father boss in the flashback, for instance). Thank you for the long and detailed comment!
As a fromsoft veteran, lies of P is now one of my favorite souls games of all time. I put it above DS1 and 2. It’s probably below 3 for me but just by a hair. I loved every minute of this game.
Lies of P is a beautiful masterpiece. Many mechanics surpassed what even FromSoftware themselves could achieve, but it was only possible with the foundation they'd laid out for the subgenre.
I will admit that I held a very heavy bias when first playing this game. It doesn’t have the environment, lore, characters, creativity or level of polish that FromSoft puts in there games. This held my opinions back and stopped me from enjoying the game. But, it doesn’t need to be FromSoft. It took me awhile but I came back and really played with an open mind and ended up loving this game. I still have my preferences and still think FromSoft are absolute in the ability to make incredible experiences. But that’s not fair to this game or the team behind it.
Same! And the good news is that the game did really well, and that there's DLC and a sequel in the works so... Us fans of the game will be getting more in the future! 🤩
I love it. the problem is weapon balance, heavy weapons suck because theres no poise. If you play a dex weapon like the rapier, the game is a 10/10 experience from start to finish. All animations are fast and you never feel trapped in them, everything is just smooth and works
I definitely agree that the Strength based weapons and just strength builds in general in this game are not as great as Technique/Dex. There are definitely ways to get around that with certain weapons and Legion arms, but Dex/Technique is definitely the favored build in the game.
I can honestly say that I hate that I love this game. It’s my first Souls-ish game and after 26+ hours in I can honestly say that I’m loving the game play but the bosses (and many mini bosses for that matter) leave me feeling like a masochist that’s a glutton for punishment but I can’t put it down since the game is just SO beautiful. The art, the story, the mix of familiarity yet originality so it’s all fresh. It’s an amazing game. I just wish it was more open-world. I understand the linear style makes the game more puzzle like in having to open the shortcuts, I just wish it was a little more open.
I have to say man, like another commenter here, you jumped into Souls games on the deep end of the pool. This is hands down the hardest souls games I've played (And I beat All of them save for Dark Souls 2). That said, if you're looking for something more open than definitely check out some of the FromSoftware Games (Elden Ring is the obvious choice, but Sekiro might not be bad once you finish this game). If its atmosphere and exploration, then Bloodborne on PS4 is what hands down inspired this game (and this is a lot more open, with some secret areas and what not). All in all, I'm really glad you stuck with this game, as I can imagine this would be pretty frustrating as your first Souls like! Keep at it, the last few bosses are particularly hard, but that sense of reward only gets better and better!
Man I love dark souls and bloodborne like anyone else. But this game is ABSOLUTELY BELOVED by me. It is very special. The tone, the story, the music.. it has such an amazing, unique charm. It’s original, and extremely fun to play on top of that.
I really like this game, but one thing I wish it did better, is to offer more possibility for exploration. What I really love about, say DS3, was the replayability (didn't find nameless king until NG+), and all the little paths one could take that weren't obvious. Lies of P didn't really include much of this, and I think it's something that would elevate the game to a higher level (for me at least). Other than that, the art design, music and combat all clicked with me. I think parrying in this game is smoother than in the DS games.
I've heard that criticism, and I think its a fair one. Personally, I really liked how linear and well thought out the game was. There were some opportunities for Exploration with some of the side quests and the Riddle King Rooms. That said, yeah, I can see this as an area where the sequel can definitely expand upon.
I have no experience with soulslike games and am typically not one to be completionist. Even with my favorite games it is always getting through the story above gameplay and then being done with it. Lies of P changed that for me entirely. I was able to stay completely immersed in the world with the compelling characters and unique storytelling even with the hours and hours of fighting the same boss over and over which somehow never grew tedious. I adore this game in everything that it is.
I think it's worth noting here that I beat the game yesterday, technique build, no specters, no consumables, and *no guarding* pretty much ever. I would try sometimes in a panic for the red attacks but didn't really get the timing often. Dodging the whole time absolutely works. Red attacks can be maneuvered around. It was really incredible and satisfying because the game's animations are so fluid, consistent, and readable that I was often dodging through or running around attacks I hadn't seen before. Laxasia took 50 tries but Simon took only one. It was really fun to play it like I did Bloodborne years and years ago, but I could see myself doing a new playthrough with other weapons and trying all guarding, minimal dodging, and having an amazing time all over again. I just want to be clear that you don't actually have to do that. Anyway, Lies of P is such a masterpiece.
Honestly, after seeing the comments on this video, I'm pretty hopeful that it will be remembered a lot more fondly than I originally thought when I decided to make this video. I had been seeing people really praise Lords of the Fallen and kind of give this game less praise, so I guess its another situation where content creators/reviewers and the general gaming audience had two different experiences :D
@@hardreseto I must be on the other side of youtube lol. It seems to me like it was appreciated more after being compared to lords of the fallen. Great video and obviously I agree with everything else.
Well i kinda get your point. Lies of p Is indeed a very well polished game with a unique artstyle complementing its setting. But if we wanna understand why the game didn't do so well we must look at multiple things both games have going for them. But i am not going put a down a monster read here, so i'll use myself and friends as examples. Many of my friends myself uncluded find that the art direction is what puts me of the most. Not that its bad art or anything. But i found the dark astethic from bloodborne a lot better (Just my opinion). When i walked through world of dark souls, bloodborne and elden ring i was costantly wondering, what happend here? Which lies of p only accasionally managed to do. Is it because i don't like the astethic? I can't say. But a lot of my friends feel the same. So i think, lies of p not doing so well is because not many people dig the art direction. Elden ring is kind of an anomaly in fromsoftware's line-up as none of their games did so well before. Why is that? I think because the game looked like high a fanatasy rpg with a lot of traditional elements (to western civilisation) which people can more easily identify with. This is just my take, so feel free to blast my opinion if you'd like.
I think not liking the art direction or general world of the game is a really good reason to not like the game. I honestly hadn't considered it, since I actually really dig the art style and look and feel of the game. But I can totally see some people not liking those things as a matter of taste. Interesting perspective, so thank you for sharing!
I do like the game, just not as much as i did bloodborne or dark souls for example. The combat is lies of p's strongest point and i had an absolute blast getting to learn its intricacies.
The Puppet King was where I really had to learn parrying. It's also where the game started crashing regularly for me lol. So that certainly extended the time it took to beat the game. I saw something about the gamepass version having that issue so maybe I'll have to get it on Steam eventually.
Theres two sides to the souls-like community. Those who like riding Fromsoft like its somone's meat, while refusing to appreciate any game like this made by someone who ISN'T Fromsoft, and those who like the FORMULA Fromsoft created, while actively enjoying when the FORMULA is well implemented. People who enjoyed this game are the latter, most people who dislike this game or call it bad, are the former. Unlike most souls-likes, LoP managed to create its own Identity by mixing previously created mechanics, while creating new ones that click with what they've done here. I personally liked this game more than Elden Ring (not a fan of the open world setting they created, its exhausting) the animations are extremely well done, the NPCs have very interesting backstories, the story itself is pretty damn good, the Lore is more accessible than it is in Fromsoft games, while still being pretty interesting, and there are things that they did better than Fromsoft themselves (leveling up cost doesn't spike all of a sudden into the hundreds of thousands). This game is also one of the very few Souls-like to actually make Boss-weapons feel rewarding to use, and making them all look memorable and different from eachother. Love this game to death.
I mean I really like FromSoft Games, but I'm also always up for seeing other devs use their ideas and do something unique like you mentioned for Lies of P. I totally agree about the Boss Weapons as well. Two Dragon Sword was just awesome, and I've stuck with it after I got that one!
Give it time. The initial release was great but rougher due to some moves being locked behind the skill unlock system and other tiny details. Base moveset right now is perfect and its current state is a masterpiece.
Played this game cuz of xQc and is by far one of my favorite souls game. I kinda had low expectations at first but I fell in love with it. Love the combat, art style, and boss fights
finally someone has managed to sum up exactly how I feel about lies of p and say exactly everything I've been wanting to hear from some of the larger content creators like cowboy or some of the other larger Souls base creators. lies of p is my goty hands down and when I heard people saying they finished the game in 30 hours, I didn't understand because it took me close to 70. You explained perfectly why that happens and p just has a very deep, nuanced set of systems that once learned become some of the best in gaming. Thank you for the excellent analysis, you summed it up perfectly.
Thank you for the kind words. One of the reasons I made the video is because I really did feel like the game wasn't getting its due or being explained properly, so I'm glad I was somewhat successful in that goal.
Finished the game yesterday, thereby "unlocking" looking up information, video's, etc. Loved this video. Being a Dark Souls fan, I thoroughly enjoyed Pinocchio, as I like to refer to the game. One question for everybody: did you use items at all? For example: the instant weapon repair, the ampoules, abrasives and fable catalists. I didn't used them, because I didn't feel the need for it. I enjoyed the combination of pulse cells, legion arms and special grindstones in the combat and that was sufficient.
The game is absolutely fantastic in allowing to play it with your favourable playstyle if you dig a bit deeper into the mechanics. You can choose to play with perfect parries, you can choose not to parry ever and always trying to dodge (that's what I did), you can make it harder or easier for yourself almost as much as you want by deciding if you want to use spectres and throwables (I did that, too)... great!
Haha True! When I was going through my footage, I had a few chunks of just switching out weapon combinations and practicing on the dummy next to the weapon lady!
Talk what you want, but the real reason this game is not “beloved” is because it does not have From Software popping up on the starting screen.
I think that's actually a pretty fair point. Obviously FromSoftware has had years of hits to garner their reputation. That said, I still felt like this game wasn't getting the praise and love it deserved, and it bothered me. The FromSoftware thing is definitely a factor, but I felt like there's more to the story and that's why this video exists! :D
@@hardresetopeople just don’t want to admit a smaller company made something on par with Fromsoft 🤷♂️
Nope, it simply doesnt have the engine FS uses. Every souls clone feels cluncy and floaty. Lies of p is no different
@@Bulbaf3tt except it isnt on par its simply the best of the clones that are almost always awful
@@Bulbaf3tt”on par”
Really?
Dark souls 1, Dark souls 3, Sekiro, and Elden ring.
You think Lies of Pi is anywhere near these games 🤣🤣🤣
Good game but ain’t on fromsoft level come on now…
I think it is beloved.. it has a massive community.. for a unknown developer I think this is a huge success and is loved. Also give it time, if they keep pulling this time of game out they will be at fromsoftware level.
I adore this game. I personally enjoyed this more then any fromsoftware game and I’m obsessed with BB. Idk something about the childhood memories and then the difficulties it rwarding system. I loved learning the game and bosses. I just finished a Deathless run without fable arts/special grindstones/legendary weapons. It was so rewarding and feels so good when you’ve mastered the bosses.
If they make a wizard of oz soulslike… I think I’ll lose my fucking mind. That is so exciting!! Great video thanks for the content!
Thank you for the kind words! As I've mentioned a few times in the comments, I think the best part about making this video is seeing how many people love this game as much as I do, if not more.
Yeah I can't wait to see what they do with Dorothy and Oz and whether that's going to be the DLC or the sequel!
Exactly. From what I hear it is beloved as well
Eh, the community is hella niche and pretty small overall.
The real reason, of course, being that the game attempts to copy the physical makeup of fromsoft games without the heart and soul oh the game philosophy involved in the aforementioned titles.
I share this sentiment. Lies of P managed to finally snag the crown of BEST souls-like and it was their first try at it, giving you an idea, how much the developers themselves cherish the genre. It's all about their follow up now and I am confident their next title will be even better.
Also lets not forget, Dark souls started off like this, started slow, not alot of ppl knew about it, but the ones who did absolutely loved it. I feel like its not that its not beloved, its that we are holding out to see if it gets a great sequel or it ends up like every other Souls like and just drops the ball. Alot of us are tired of getting hooked into a souls like, get invested in the story, only to be left hanging, no satisfying conclusion or any conclusion. The game is great, but I dont want to again go down the road of looking up lore, both in and out of game only to never see where it could go or it just turning to shit.
LIES OF P is my game of the year. I love this game and still play it. Can't wait for the DLC and sequel.
Same! I'm not entirely sure if its Game of the Year for me (Still got a month to get through some other games), but I think its by far one of the best games of the year! Agreed, can't wait for the DLC announcement. Maybe at the Game Awards?
@@hardresetoname one better, don’t worry I’ll wait.
@@jpesicka492 I could see Baulder's Gate III being a contender for a lot of people. I haven't beaten that yet, so I just can't say yet. That said, Lies of P is definitely GOTY material.
I agree but it has no chance unfortunately
baldurs gate 3 will most definitely win GOTY. You can almost bet money on that.@@hardreseto
Awesome video! Lies of P was my first Souls-like game and, just like you said, I think going into it as a blank slate really helped me absorb the unique mechanics of the game and thus just have a better experience over all. I am also an animator and I agree with you that the animations in the game are absolutely gorgeous! Also wanted to clarify the "ong" in Ongbal is one syllable! (kind of like when you say Gong but without the G)
Thank you! Its so fascinating to me that Lies of P is the first souls-like experience for a lot of people. I knew the game was great, but I didn't think it would reach outside the souls like community. That said, I do believe that the best way to experience the game's mechanics, as you said, is to be "pure" and unencumbered by other souls like experiences.
I am curious was it the animations/art direction that attracted you to Lies of P? I mean, the game looks and feels amazing.
Also, Thank you for the correction. I've never been quite sure how to pronounce Ongbal, and will be sure to do the proper way moving forward!
@@hardreseto Oh yeah, definitely! I have always been afraid of Souls games because of the difficulty and to be honest the vague nature of the story has always kept me at bay. Lies of P's art and easier to understand story and characters has definitely called me in and the more I saw of the world and the more I got to know the npcs the more I wanted to stick around. The concept of a dark fairytale is just so charming and to be executed this well was astonishing to see!
I think most people are saying that LoP is more difficult than the souls games by FromSoftware so you don't have to be scared any more. @@gloriakang
Same here first souls like. I’ve been waiting for this game forever. I was hesitant because it was a souls like but I just love the Pinocchio lore. I bought Seikro I can’t wait to try this next. When my friend told me to play it like a fighting game it clicked.
@@hardresetoI got lucky then, it's my first souls like too! Has me hungry for more though, I have a bunch of souls games in the backlog anyway. 😅
Lies of P is beloved to me. It’s one of my personal favorites of all time. Up there with Sekiro and Hollow Knight. Fromsoft fanboys can try to deny it all they want, but this game is a masterpiece.
You BLEW my mind with the 'fighting game' analogy. It makes SO much sense. I can't play often, and it took me too much time to get used to the timings and small details... I gave myself time to learn and experiment, and now that I get it, I am obsessed with this game. This is an amazing video; thanks very much!
There's something deeply rewarding and captivating about this title. Like you, it took me nearly 60 hours to complete the first playthrough-and I was immersed and eager for more once I completed it. This is such a beautifully written, in an enigmatic way at times, story and world. I'm hooked.
I honestly think that if you take your time and don't rush through the game, you appreciate it more. There were definitely times when I could've forced my way past bosses, especially by using the Specter, but I learned my lesson from Elden Ring (where I regret not soloing more bosses).
I actually have the same regret as yours, despite some bosses being truly, truly difficult for me, at the time.
same for me, i hated how I used rivers of blood and mimic tear and tiche to beat most of the bosses@@hardreseto
I’m a die hard From fanatic, this was my game of the year!!!
I can’t remember seeing such overwhelmingly positive feedback on a title in recent times, the fans are big fans!!!!
I think that's something that I'm realizing after making this video and seeing all the feedback from it. When someone clicks with Lies of P, they really do fall in love with it. Knowing that is reason enough for me to be glad to have made this video!
This game is far and above anything fromsoft has rolled out, this in 10 years will have the same love bloodborne receives. Play these games back to back and lies of p is a better game in almost every way but nostalgia is strong and it might take some time for the love thats deserved to come from the fans.
The game is stunning, I am gravitating towards challenging skill based games, this hit the spot and more!!
Definitely give Sekiro a shot if you haven't, and of course, Nioh 2 and any of FromSoftware's games.
Great presentation and editing man. Keep up the amazing work!!!
Thank you so much! Glad you liked it!
A key point is that, if you guard a bit too soon you have the ability to preserve some health and you don't get staggered, however, if you guard a nanosecond after the perfect timing you its the same as getting hit without attempting to parry at all. Another reason why its so tough
Yeah Agreed. There's also Red Attacks which are not dodge-able and can only be perfect guarded, which I didn't even mention in the video. But yes, the price for missing a perfect parry can be quite disastrous.
I feel like it forced me to not spam the guard button as much. If I missed the perfect guard I had to teach myself to just hold the guard down, then I can perfect guard the next attack and regain health. I had to unlearn what Sekiro taught me as a viable scapegoat option hahah
@@hardresetoTo be fair, unblockable red attacks aren’t new. That’s prettt similar to Mikiri attacks in Sekiro
Y'all, the red attacks are easily dodge-able. You just run back wards or to the side.
The guard mechanic is janky, tbh. Boss hotboxes are wildly unreliable, like WILDLY unreliable at times. So yeah, your perfecg blocks are often going to hit that "haha you shouldn't have even guarded" points often.
It's not difficult, its jank.
Man i am listening to this video again, such a great review.
Your description of weapon animations mattering for the perfect guard frame is something I kept feeling when I changed weapons but couldn't put my finger on. It's why I kept coming back to my comfort weapon combos when I started experimenting.
Yeah I think the first time I noticed it is when I ended up switching weapons for a boss, and found the parry timings to be completely different. That is one thing that I think makes you want to stick with a particular weapon or two, just because you get used to that particular speed of the guard animation and therefore perfect guard timing.
YUp, it's all based on the weapon, so you're not going to have a greatsword parry the same way a Rapier would. And then we land on the part were Hardreseto (lol cool name) lands on.. I love the fact you have to.. gear up PB
Sorry to burst the bubble, but perfect guard frames start with the same timing regardless.
The very moment P starts raising the weapon, they activate. You then have 9 or 10 active frames for perfect guards depending on your handle, and that's regardless of whether you release or hold the button.
@@BigDBrian Hm I haven't tested it out but it was a strong impression I had playing the game. Anyone test the frames?
@@andrewcole3762 I tested them extensively myself, going frame by frame on many instances. As I said, it's 9 or 10 exactly, depending on handle.
I think this is some really great analysis of the game, your words really resonated with me. I loved the game and in my personal case i came from a platform fighting game (brawlhalla 500+ hours) that really focused on learning key game mechanics. It also happened to me that i didnt understand the parry mechanics until i faced victor (before that i mainly dodged with some exceptions like archbishop) and the game was not really clear on how important parrying can be. On the otherside i reallly took my time to dominate every boss i almost didnt use throwables or specter due to the effort to collect them and the inconsistency that they could bring, so i really learn every boss to dominate its pattern (it took me an insane 90hrs to finish the game because i barely used tutorials until laxasia probably, the first chapters took me like 7-8hrs each and at the end of the game i was just sprinting through the levels). In every other sense i believe the game is a masterpiece (story, combat, gameplay) but i need to put an insane amount of time to really get the catch of it. Anyways, nice video bro! It makes sad that this game was not so appreciated as others, expected to obtain a goty or smthng but baldurs gate....
I am really looking forward to the dlc and secuel!
Loved Lies of PP. I competed many many playthroughs. I especially loved cracking the code on the parry system. So very satisfying. It makes me wish Elden Ring had something similar.
If you play on PC, mods exist for that. Try Elden Ring Reforged.
Yeah I think once you get it, this parry system is actually really fun. Especially if you mix in the Dragon Sword and use its R2 Charged Parry attack.
@@SNESpool Yeah I tried that but didn't like the feel of it. Maybe I'll give it another go.
@@cornthdl another ER mod that might be worth a shot is Sword Mastery. It also has Sekiro-esque deflects and overhauls the movesets of every weapon.
Lies of p in my opinion has better combat than elden ring. Sekiro is still the goat tho
Almost everyone that have played this game is their personal GOTY. You cannot but fall in love with it!!
This was actually my first 'Souls' game (including FromSoft) and absolutely loved it. Found it difficult but fair and extreeeemely rewarding. Just finished NG++ and got every ending and achievement after almost 80 hours. Really looking forward to that DLC and sequel specially after that end-credits scene. Really great video!
Wow... Dude this was your first "Souls" game? That's amazing. You really jumped in on the deep end, as I'd say Lies of P is likely the hardest souls game I've played. You are a much better player than me! Thank you for sharing, its awesome that Lies of P got you into Souls games. Definitely check out Sekiro and Elden Ring after this!
Also yeah, can't wait for the DLC and Sequel. And Thank you, glad you liked the video!
That's awesome. Now you've drank the cool-aid you definitely have to play the rest! I second going for Sekiro and Elden Ring
play Sekiro now. It's the most similar to P and is incredible.
not my first but my 100% was just under 80 hours as well.
Sekiro was Harder in my opinion especially if you intentionally seek out and defeat every boss and mini boss in your first playthrough or maybe its because Sekiro was my first souls like. I love Lies of P tho, Alonso play the other souls games you wont regret it. Sekiro, Bloodbourne, DS3, and Elden Ring atleast. DS1 & DS2 are really outdated
i played elden ring for like 20 hours last year as my first soulslike but the open world mechanic kinda made it tough for me so i dropped it after beating few side bosses and the first main boss. when Lies of P released i was stunned by how good it was. it was kinda hard but doable took me about 25hours to beat my first playthrough and it was pretty much self explanatory all the way. a lot of mechanics added were really nice. but my fav part was the pinochio story that added a whole new level to the game and made it so amazing. still have to beat it few more times but im looking forward to do it
Yesterday I completed 100% of game and absolutely loved it❤. For me, as person who enjoy playing Dark Souls and Sekiro it is very sad, that other souls veterans didn't liked this game mostly because it doesn't have FromSoftware label. But, you know, Demons Souls also wasn't very famous until Dark Souls 1, so I think after some time Neowiz will give us another amazing games, which will be loved even by elitist souls players. P.S.: sorry for my bad english, I am not a native speaker.
Yeah I think the reason I made this video is because I felt like the game wasn't getting enough attention. After making this video though, I feel like the game is a lot more loved than I thought! Thanks for the comment, especially the effort to comment in English despite it not being your first language!
I agree bro i think people will finally see how good this game studio is after their next games
I did 5 runs to this game and I'm still thinking about it. Even might do another one because for some reason this game got me hooked! Each time I play I try different weapons and arms. Just plain good fun.
Sit you deserve a lot more views on this piece!
Thank you! That is very kind of you to say! I'm also glad you enjoyed the piece! :)
This amazing game deserve more love. and this channel deserve more views and subs. Good job!
Agreed, this game is awesome! And Thank you so much for the kind words!
I finished Lies a couple of weeks ago (I want to say I was at appx 50-60 hours at that point) and have plunged into NG+ (currently in the swamp). I'm an enormous fan of FromSoft but have only played the genre for about 2 years. Lies is a atmospherically-rich, brutally difficult masterpiece, and worth every. single. moment. The more I struggled, the more I loved it, because it kept me engaged and excited about what I was learning in the process. That perfect guard window is a sliver, but when you nail it, life is good. And I am DYING to see what they bring next.
Perfect assessment, and excellent delivery.
I also love the enemy variety in Lies of P my favourite mini boss was the corpse one that was banging on the door that had a huge claw.
I think you and had very similar experiences in terms of the first run. I'm also slowly making my way through NG+, but you're much farther ahead than me! And yes! I can't wait to see what the DLC gives us.
Thank you for the kind words as well!
Great review and true. I never really put the fighting game connection, but that is true. I don't really play Soulslike or fighting games, but I guess that did help me learn these mechanics pretty well. though like you I didn't use perfect guards on my entire first run.
As someone in which the games combat clicked very early on, I can say that i absolutely agree that when firing on all cylinders and in a groove it is as fun, deep, and rewarding as any souls title. Because things clicked for me so early on, the whole game felt amazing and i was shocked when so many people were not sharing my feelings and not also describing it as a triumph and genre defining game of the soulslike format.
Because i feel into a groove so quickly i also chose to play no summons, no throwing weapon cheese, and even choosing to ban myself from the auto-parry grindstone and i genuinely enjoyed the gsme to the degree in which i enjoyed bloodborne (my favorite gsme in the souls genre). Stripping it down to only my skill against the bosses mechanics made in shine so much more in my playthrough. Not that this style id everyone's cup of T but I cranks the intensity and rewarding feeling up to 11 imo.
Honestly when I completed Lies of P and the credits rolled, I was just happy it was over. I recognized that feeling, I had the same feeling when I finished Sekiro. Both games are very good, but both frustrated me in various and different ways to the point that I never wanted to touch them again. And I'm definitely in fightincowboy's camp when it comes to the things I want in a Souls game, I want classes, big areas I can explore and get lost in, the ability to use magic, or sword and board, just traditional Souls mechanics. Lies of P has none of that, which doesn't make it bad at all, it's just not my cup of tea.
I definitely get why Fightincowboy doesn't vibe with the game as much. The man is superb at Build Crafting and min-maxing stats and what not. In fact, the reason I found Fightning Cowboy in the first place was because of his Nioh 2 builds. He also did some seriously broken stuff for Code Vein.
And yeah, for people who enjoy build crafting, or even Strength based builds, Lies of P kind doesn't have a lot to offer there!
Yeah, there's a key difference many have either missed or aren't bothered by. Soulsborne games are "worlds" that you explore, intricate levels with secrets, short cuts etc Sekiro is much more linear and one dimensional. And Lies of P seems even more linear. Beautiful and stunning graphics and art. But it's a fighting theme park built purely for a game to be played in it.
Underrated content creator! I was watching the video then saw your channel and was suprised because the video is so high quality. You sound like a high-profile creator!
Thank you for the kind words!
I actually only got started a little bit ago, so I think that may be why there's not that many views/subs. I've dabbled in Video production and podcasting in the past, but this is my first attempt at seriously working on a YT channel. Hopefully you'll stick around as I'd love to hear your thoughts on my future stuff as well!
Lies of P is the only non From Software soulsborne that has drawn me in as much as the actual From Software soulsbornes. I have beat the game (including the Nameless Puppet). I also started NG+. I plan on getting all achievements and am eagerly awaiting the dlc. Such a great game!
It gets better and better the more you play 👍🏻👍🏻
Yeah I agree. I'd also give Nioh 2 a shout out, but I'd argue that Lies of P is just overall a better game than Nioh 2 as well. I'm making my way through NG+ as well, taking my time and really trying to style on bosses this time around! :)
It’s getting dlc???? Say sike right
now.
@@zeedude8026 Neowiz released screen shots of the dlc.
You really nailed why I struggle so hard with the parrying system after spending 200+ hours on Sekiro NGs... but I keep going at it, it's indeed a masterpiece
Yeah the Sekiro parry mastery actually works a bit against you in this game.
Great video man.
I finished the game with 3 different builds and went to ng+2 with all of them. I enjoy the role play aspect of games.
I went with a ckean slate state of mind and while it took some time to get used to it i can say that this sekiro and nioh2 are my favorite games ever.
I think this game got loved by people who get obsessive with game mechanics and it seems we are a rare breed.
Im pretty sure people who lived this game loved nioh2 for its comolexity.
Too bad many people dont want to or dont have the time to put into this gem.
Its a flawed, raw Masterpiece
I totally hear you about Nioh 2. I definitely want to do a video on Nioh 2 at some point as well, as that game has its own share of complex mechanics and ideas that are really cool. I was a bit let down with Wo Long earlier this year, but that's a conversation for another day.
I think calling it a flawed raw Masterpiece is right. I remember how hard to get into Bloodborne was for me (It was my first Souls game) and how the beginning area of the game was the hardest challenge I had to overcome in the entire game.
I think Lies of P isn't that harsh, but it could do a better job easing in players. I'm sure the next title will further improve on everything that was done so excellently here!
Aggreed wo long has cool mechanics but its flaws become glaringly clear especially on ng+ and above (although the latest dlc fixes a lot of these issues IMO).
Nioh2 replayability is insane, word.
I played that game for 3 years straight
Also people always approach new games with premises like "oh its mecha sekiro or horror final fanatasy"or whatever lol .
a good example was people complaining that sekiro is not good cause dodging is horrible (ring any bells?) When the first thing the game tells you is to block.
I cant wait for the upcoming dlc and appreciate the fact that you take time to reply. Have a nice day and you earned a subscriber keep it up.
Ps: sorry for my English it aint my first language
Cheers
Lies of P may have brought little new ideas to the table. But it's as close to a polished, similar bloodborne-esque game we've gotten so far. And that just very much pleases an entire fanbase of bloodborne fanatics. You can pretty much accost the 1 million sales towards the bloodborne community. And there's nothing wrong with that. I've already racked up close to 500 hours perhaps. And that's simply because I'm getting a bloodborne sequel of sorts, and I'm loving it.
I think one thing holding back Lies of P from being beloved is the lack of ambiguity in the story and lore. Something unanimous between all fromsoft games is everyone gushing over the atmosphere and story that’s told loosely enough for you to have to figure out yourself. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Sekiro seems to be the fromsoft game least beloved for its story with most people only talking about combat when praising it, because it’s the most streamlined story that’s more overtly explained to the player. The soulslike genre in general is quite particular and niche and I think a lot of people expect an ambiguous world that they can get lost in and interpret for themselves instead of having this world explained to them and they just have to accept the objective story whether they like it or not
You nailed it.
I can totally see that as a con for some, but I personally like the front and center storytelling style. I also am one of the people that really prefer Sekiro's storytelling style to any other From Software game. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Maybe that is a reason for certain souls fans to not like the game, for sure!
Never played a Souls like game before so went in blind. I was expecting a Devil May Cry run in and annihilate everything type experience....boy was I wrong. Kept getting wrecked and dying when fighting more than one puppet at a time. Don't even get me started on the first Boss Parade Master. I had to take a step back and almost quite the game all together. I realized that the parrying and blocking and more methodical approach is where it at. You are 100% correct with the fighting game comparison, need to pick your spots and not rush in. After spending some time grinding and levelling up I found a good rhythm and started understanding/using the mechanics. Now i'm 3 runs through it and about to start my fourth and have to say truly one of the best most satisfying games i've played in years. Haven't been this obsessed with game in a while, can't wait for the next chapter. Great Vid by the way, keep it up!
That is so cool to hear! Also I'm glad you stepped away and then got back into it! I can see the game being quite frustrating, but your experience with Fighting games definitely gave you the right approach to the game! 3 Runs is amazing! You went further than I did! I'm on my NG+ run right now, and I play the game on and off to stay current with it :D
I don't know who doesn't like it, but I love it. As far as I am concerned, it is the best "soulslike" I have played that isn't bloodborne. I just finished my first playthrough and will be playing it again for the other endings. I didn't feel like it was more difficult than other similar games. But different enough to set itself apart. They really knocked it out of the park with this one and I hope that there is more to come.
There is no way Lies of P is better than Sekiro. If you haven't played it, you should. It pulls it's main deflect mechanic straight from Sekiro anyway. Actually, it pulls a lot from Sekiro. The whole left arm and interchangeable combat effects you can have. I would argue that although they are different games in almost every way, it isn't better than Remnant 1 or 2 either. I'm not a huge fan of From Software games because of the repetitive and antiquated combat they have, but Sekiro is an absolute masterclass of a game from almost every perspective. To me, Sekiro is easily the best game they have made. I didn't play Bloodbourne when it launched, but I tried it and it just felt way too janky for me. I do want them to remake it so I can try it. The setting and everything looks insane.
@@georgen5882 I also loved sekiro but I should clarify that I don't really consider sekiro a "soulslike" even though it is by From Software. To me, sekiro is kind of its own unique thing that really stands out on its own. So I get what you mean, but when I say soulslike, I am not talking about sekiro.
Yeah I think some people will naturally just click with the game quickly. For me, I had developed some bad habits from other FromSoft games, and I generally focus more on dodging and dex builds than Parrying, so took me a bit to adjust to everything and just figure it all out. That's where a lot of the difficulty comes from I think.
And as for more, its definitely coming. DLC first and then a sequel :)
Hit the nail on the head... the content creators that where trying to go as fast as they could lost thier minds instead of picked up the subtle hints and slowed down to figure out what works against each various eneimies... the practice dummies at the first fight in the game and at the hotel was SCREAMING figure out how your weapon WORKS... Yet, many didn't and assumed they were " EXPERTS" and got clapped over and over... once you slowed down and learned all the mechanics to the game ( so many different ways to fight each enemy between legion arms, throwables, parry and dodges) it becomes a fun, engaging beat down that is paced amazing between battles and beautiful environments with a few hidden areas or mental thought processes sneaked in... many these days want to be the "FIRST" at everything and prove how amazing they are instead of enjoying what they are doing... BRAVO TO NEOWITZ and You sir for giving a excellent explanation to the differences between players and these so called experts!! This was one of the first games I truely wanted to play a new game plus immediately after competing of the game and did over 3 new game pluses in a row... once figured out, this game grabbs you and doesn't want to let you go... if Armored Core didn't come out just after this game I would have spent hundreds more hrs straight... for those on the fence enjoy the game and learn this masterpiece!!
as someone who played several playthroughs of pre 1.3 patch and post 1.3 patch i feel like the nerf was too much. Its very noticeable how much more quickly elite enemies and bosses go down imo. I highly doubt this will ever happen but i hope they do a small buff to the enemies HP and find a good middle ground. I do ultimately like what they did by making the moves a bit more readable. It messed up my muscle memory at first with my parry timings but now that im used to the new timings its all good. I love this game so much
A part of me does wish I had been able to face the last few bosses Pre-Patch. Especially Laxasia, that whole boss fight was wicked awesome and pretty challenging even post-patch. That said, I still think the game is fairly challenging, even for Souls like players, so I still respect anyone who beat this game. Alongside Sekiro, beating this game was one of the most rewarding experiences I've had.
@@hardreseto Yeah that Lax fight is my favorite. Its so much fun when you get it down. I still have just as much fun fighting her in the current game. Shes really not much easier than before. I think her tracking isnt as tight so you can get away from danger just by dodging a bit easier and. Still still hard as hell and masterfully designed. Im so impressed with the consistency throughout the game with how good every boss is.
@@increase9896 the only problem with her fight is the tracking sometimes and how bullshit her dive move is (yeah i know its parryable but for how quick that happens its just too..............anime bullshit for me). ridiculous in my opinion. the tracking she has on some moves just looks silly for an enemy that has a huge sword and heavy ass looking armor. i still liked the fight though, just wish it didnt look as goofy as it does at times.
NITPICK WARNING, as a movie fan I pay attention to the details of a story in a game way more then I should and there were some things I could not look past in lies of p. I loved the ambiguity in the fromsoft soulslikes and I'm not only talking about the way the story is told but also about the way it's themes and the atmosphere are delivered to you. While fromsofts storytelling is more subtle I thought lies of p story telling was very on the nose and didn't leave much to the imagination which made the story telling feel stupid for me in the way it was delivered because I actually thought the story in itself was rather interesting. Another thing I could not get used to was the dialog and the way that characters were written. One stand out dialog that I can remember that always annoys me is: 'I know my way around a weopon!' This sounds to me like something a child would say and even then it would annoy me. Again, LITERALLY no one will get annoyed by this except me cuz I'm weird. Although this is just one example that came to mind I thought that a lot of characters had dialog that felt unnatural and dialog that didn't quite match them. Now I know that fromsoft games have had tons of characters with weird and unnatural dialog but to me that came over more as a joke or as a way to tell you that the characters are just as batshit insane as the world they're in. Didn't quite feel that way about lies of p. Now how this managed to ruin the entire game for me only lord Gwyn knows. If anyone feels different please try to convince me cuz I want to enjoy this game just as much as you.
I think the thing I mentioned about the story holds true, its a matter of opinion/taste. Some people REALLY love the Ambigious, hunt for the pieces storytelling of From Software games. I personally am more of a fan of just seeing the narrative up close, and if that means its a bit "on the nose" then that doesn't bug me as much.
I also generally have low expectations when it comes to Souls likes and story, so I think Lies of P really exceeded my expectations. Also my favorite story in a From Software game is Sekiro, so I think its just a matter of tastes and what we each value in a game's story. Totally fine to not like Lies of P's story!
@@hardreseto oh don't get me wrong I don't necessarily mind a more upfront story I just wasn't invested at all in the characters and thought that the story telling was stupid which ruined it for me. There's a difference between an upfront story and an on the nose story for me. But like you said taste differs and nobody should actually be mad that someone doesn't like something or the other way around.
Well right off the top we already have a mistake that calls into question your knowledge of what you speak. 0:21 - "Some call it Soulsborne, others call it Soulslike" Except Soulsborne and Soulslike do not refer to the same thing.
"Soulsborne" refers to the FROMSOFT games. The term originated when Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne were the only games of this type, hence SoulsBorne covered the whole genre at that point. It now also includes Sekiro and Elden Ring. I've even seen some try SoulsBornEkiRing..... but seriously, Soulsborne means actual FROMSOFT games in that genre.
"Soulslike" refers to non-FROMSOFT games that are trying to be like SoulsBorne.
A few people have pointed this out, and I can definitely agree that it's a bit of an error. I've seen people use the term interchangeably. Thank you for the correction. While I can't quite edit the video without re uploading it, I'll be sure to make that distinction in the future!
I think you really struck the nail on the head with the point about how Lies of P borrows mechanics from Soulsborne, but employs them differently without explaining them that much. By borrowing so much visual and gameplay language from Fromsoft without clear explanations, they set an expectation and invite the comparison to Fromsoft's mechanics from the Soulsborne fans. People who approach the game without such expectations and have backgrounds in other skill-based fighting games might not have trouble picking it up, and might try to break the systems in through more thorough testing than a Souls fan who expected something more familiar because the visual language is familiar.
If LoP had chosen to make their visual and game design language more akin to a fighting game or character action game, I think they would have stood out more and made their game feel like something more unique, merging communities instead of throwing all their weight at one community.
Also, I see a lot of people in comments here and elsewhere say that if the game just had Fromsoft listed as the developer it would be beloved, but I think that's just fanboying. Brand recognition is definitely true, but Soulsborne fans are brutal to even Fromsoft games they don't like. There's massive criticism of DS2, DS3, and even Elden Ring's design choices. If Fromsoft had made LoP, I think people would still take notice of the more "derivative" nature of LoP's designs and mechanics, its more linear and obvious story, etc. Just my opinion.
I am a hardcore FromSoft fan from back in the days of Demon's Souls. I have played all of the Soulslikes and they have all fallen short of my expectations. Most of the time, it's an accumulation of little things that make the games just feel bad. Most recently it was Lords of the Fallen with it's floaty, skatey combat, close camera, too high movement speed and awful encounter design. It fell into the trap of trying to copy FromSoft TOO closely. It was dark fantasy, it had the cryptic lore, the "epic" boss battles; it was an imitation, not an innovation.
Lies of P is the first Soulslike I have played where I feel like someone has taken that Soulslike formula and made it their own - there are even some improvements Lies of P makes, like leaving your ergo outside the boss room and showing you who has quests where and when.
What I love most about Lies of P is the defensive options. It sits right in the middle of the Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Sekiro venn diagram. The dodge is better than the one in Sekiro, but not as good as the one in Bloodborne. The block is not as good as the one in Dark Souls, but it has the rally mechanic from Bloodborne. The parries are easier to get than in Sekiro - not quite as rewarding - but they are also not the only option. You can beat bosses without staggering them, a system Sekiro lacks.
Lies of P beautifully blends Soulslike mechanics with their own tweaks. Rather than trying to do everything a FromSoft game does - and thereby risking direct comparisons - they weren't afraid to deviate.
I'm glad a good, challenging, rewarding Soulslike finally exists. I want more developers who can compete with FromSoft, I want more great Soulslikes. So for me, Lies of P is beloved.
I really want to commend you on the breakdown of Lies of P's defensive options, and especially your rather apt comparison to Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro. That mix and match, coupled with some really interesting and unique adjustments, make for a really interesting and unique experience.
I agree, the biggest win with Lies of P is just getting something as good as a From Software game. Competition is great for players, as I can only imagine how From Software is going to continue to innovate as well!
Lies of P is better than any From game I've ever played. What a game.
Looking at negative reviews, what’s interesting is one common complaint is that red attacks are too punishing because they can’t be dodged. The thing is, you demonstrate at 11:24 that red attacks *are* dodgable. But because the game’s text box-at least at first, I don’t know if they’ve changed it by now-uses the words “can’t be dodged”, it apparently makes people not even try. They are dodgable, but what the game means is that they aren’t “i-frame-able”. I think things like this, plus the fact that these critics are more actively searching for things to critique *because* it doesn’t have the From logo at the start, compound the negative voices towards this game.
I think if you discard these “wrong opinions” about the game, things like “this or that is broken”, or “the parry frames must be extended”, it’s easier to see that Lies of P is actually beloved the way it should be. It just has a stigma about it, being “objectively harder” than Sekiro by a few frames, and not being made by From, that makes more gamers, than there normally would be, feel justified about giving false critiques.
Like, they did listen to the community and agree that the player should start with the ability to roll out of being knocked down. They *did* fix the game. It’s a “better” game now. But we’ll still get complaints.
Lies of P is amazing. It sucks that certain From fans seemed to learn some behaviors from Nintendo fans. There’s this one review I saw that literally says “playing Lies of P is like eating vegetables.” Fucking lol. That’s why I put less weight on negative criticisms for this game.
Yeah I think that's the one thing that the dev teams can work in their future games: Explaining their mechanics and perhaps giving more learning opportunities.
To be fair to them, From Software was not great at this either when they started, and people slowly developed the skills to play their games and what not. And of course, now in Elden Ring the onboarding process for the game is great, so yeah.
As a first effort, I'd say Lies of P is pretty darn amazing.
If there was a way to fight the bosses again after u beat them I would be so happy. I’m in love with game and ONGBAL has inspired me to try to get on his level. The R2 parry on Two Dragons Sword is more satisfying then the whole game of Elden Ring.
I think ONGBAL's videos is the reason I got decent at some of the bosses. In my NG+ Run i'm trying to dominate all the bosses with the Dragon's Sword in a similar way to how he did. And I have to agree, The Dragon's Sword is THE weapon. Its hands down the best weapon I've used in a Souls game.
I'm doing all bosses two dragon sword no hit on my channel. Check it out if you want.
Not engaging in perfect guarding is a super valid way to play. I didn't bother with blocking or perfect guarding and used rolling for just about all defensive purposes - I triggered staggers by using charged blows. I didn't find the game easy by any means, but it was mostly smooth sailing. Also Sekiro isn't a souls-like game and no one would call it one if From didn't make it, so I find any comparisons to Sekiro are pretty much irrelevant.
Man it's just such a perfect game I have basically no complaints. I do wish some skills were better or replaced with better ones at least but this game is a gem and fs has some serious competition ahead of them.
I agree. I also have to say that the weapons in this game are some of the most fun ones I've ever had the pleasure of using. I also am sure that FromSoftware is going to dazzle us with the Elden Ring DLC when that comes. We souls like fans are just going to have TWO sources of great fun.
@@hardreseto what a time to be a souls like fan haha but yes I'm definitely hyped to get 2 different companies that make high quality fs level games😭 both dlcs are gonna be epic fasho
Personally I think that if your a heavy Sekiiro enjoyer then you'll like Lies of P(The new/changed systems are a big plus). As for a heavy demon souls/dark souls/bloodborne/elden ring enjoyer, most likely not so much. It doesn't really allow the player to do extremely different things in order to win (Such as buffing up so much you one shot the boss, stunning the boss into submission by constant aggression, or fat tanking everything). It would be more akin to say your permanently stuck on a DEX build(Strength build in Lies of P is very unenjoyable, I also beat it with an advance build which was also an absolutely poor decision).
As much as I liked the vibes of Elden Ring I think Lies of P is a MUCH more solid package. I really love it. I just went back to it last night and it is the most I’ve liked a Souls style game since Bloodborne. For my personal tastes it checks all the boxes and was very memorable.
WHOA make a video about just the perfect guard system! I finished the game already but you blew my mind
Thank you for saying that! I was actually a bit worried I went too into the weeds there. Glad to hear you liked the breakdown. Gives me confidence to highlight those kind of things in future videos!
video is on point and i agree almost with every comment. at first I was frustrated playing this game due to my FromSoft knowledge...kept trying to play it like I would bloodborne,sekiro, or dark souls. once the gameplay *clicked* and i realized I needed to treat it like its own thing, I fell in love. its honestly as good as top tier from soft games. Completed the game 4 times already. btw, what is the song at the end of your video?
Yeah, I had a similar bit of adjustment, realizing that there were a lot of original, unique mechanics and systems in the game. As for the music, its a Royalty Free Track I got for the channel and then customized a bit. Glad you like it! :)
Brilliant overview!
Thank you! Glad you liked it! =]
I personally loved Lies of P it was a truly great game i do play a lot of different games as well as having beaten Elden ring i will say the transition from dodging perfectly to parrying perfectly was something to get used to it didn't take that long and the game was really fun one you get properly used to the mechanics though i would have enjoyed and played the game regardless of popularity as i have known about and been patiently waiting for the games release for years now and i was not disappointed in the slightest with how it turned out as its now one of my favorites.
I think that diversity in your games experience might be one of the reasons why the game resonated so quickly with you, perhaps quicker than even my own experience. Yeah I also kept my eye on this game since it was announced a while ago, but its safe to say it far exceeded those initial expectations.
Agreed, There's only two games that I view on the same level as a FromSoftware game, and this is one of them.
I absolutely love this game.. The story combat visuals sound effect voice acting setting everything is just ridiculously good!!!
Lies of P deserves far more love. I’ve played every single souls game but Lies of P is my favorite alongside Sekiro and Bloodborne!
Agreed. And I have to say, those are my three of my favorite souls games as well. I'd probably give the other two spots to Nioh 2 and Elden Ring to round out a top 5!
@@hardreseto to round out my top five, I’d have to go with Code Vein (the combat elements were really cool and unique, underrated level design too) and DS1 (sorry, the nostalgia took over…) Seriously though, I never thought a game could rival Fromsoft but wow, Neowiz made a masterpiece. I can’t believe I was so doubtful until I picked it up!
Never played a souls-like, but I absolutely love this game! Only started to lose interest after my second time through newgame+. Dodging + items + regular blocks made it very accessible until the game finally forced me to learn how to perfect guard. But by then I was hooked and understanding that system was fun.
I really love your take on this, and I agree 💯 percent. The only thing I would have mentioned is that unlike a lot of souls likes this game actually had a Demo. Unlike Lords Of Fallen which sorely needed one or a Beta before it dropped.
That's a solid point. I actually tried Lies of P for the first time with the demo (Only beat the first boss though, and decided to save the rest for the full game). And Thank you for the kind words!
made it to the end, just after making DS3 and Elden Ring... and loved it so much, for everything (gameplay, story, artistic direction, ...). Thanks for the video!
I think it's getting the love it deserves man, but it's hard to be praised in this last 2 years when competing for praises against Zelda, elden ring and baldur's gate. I def loved this game, but it felt maybe too short, too small and not that hard at all. However I'm eager too see more of it because it has great potential.
I think that's an excellent point, especially with regards to this year alone. I think for me, I just felt like the game deserves a bit more love, especially from fans of the genre, people who really play these type of games.
The one thing that's been great about making this video is seeing how many people really do enjoy and love this game. I too am excited for what comes next from these two teams!
At the start of the game I found it pretty easy compared to the other souls games, probably because the start isn't as cheesy "Here's an impossible boss now be an expert or die" moment, however, as the game progressed the challenge felt more and more, frustrating, but enjoyable once I beat the boss, as you said, the optional final boss was a beast, made me stop trying to hit and run (that's how I dealt with Laxasia) and made me actually go in and trade with him and actually parry him, it was really fun.
SoulsBorne is specifically referencing the FromSoft catalogue of games that fall into the Dark Souls style of game whereas Soulslike refers to any game not made by From but using their game design methods.
That's probably the right way to look at it. I've heard the terms used interchangeably, so I just wanted to cover my bases there haha
Lies of P is a gorgeous game but I'll agree that it has some problems with accessibility. When I first played the demo I found it frustrating, because I was trying to play it like a Dark Souls game and it wasn't clicking at all. That is, until I learned that the game really wants you to engage with its parrying mechanics and I finally "got" it. Played through the demo twice again after that, bought the game and loved it. My first playthrough took about 45 hours, so right in between that "average" and your play time. A major thing that separates Lies of P from FromSoft's games is that you can't really cheese your way through boss fights. In most Souls games, you can kind of kludge your way through on the first playthrough and then defer proper learning until NG+. That's a lot less viable in Lies of P. Most boss fights took me 1-2 hours to complete, with me having to really learn the parry timing for most moves and pretty much mastering the whole fight before being able to finish it. That's a lot to ask for a lot of players. Afterwards I saw that you can in fact cheese a lot of bosses by abusing consumables, which are quite powerful in this game, but I don't think many players will discover that easily on their own.
Excellent point on Bosses, both in terms of not being able to cheese them via the standard methods, and then also pointing out that consumables are pretty OP. I didn't use consumables enough and realized late in the game that I could've made my life pretty easy.
This was my first soul like game ever and loved ever minute of it... worth the time and hitting 100% of achievement
Its just so cool to hear people trying out this sort of game thanks to Lies of P. That in itself is such a huge accolade for the game!
Question: I am a RPG guy that loves to see player power type stats on their gear. Like God of War 4 and 5. Does this game provide player power stats?
This game is just awesome,I felt the same rush when I was playing it as when I was playing bloodborne
Bloodborne was actually my first souls like game, so I totally get what you mean here!
I don't think your arguments make sense. The mechanics in Bloodborne and Sekiro are different than Dark Souls, and even Dark Souls 3 / Elden Ring are different than DS1 and 2. So you're saying that people could adapt to all these changes, but not the Lies of P mechanics? I don't think that is logical. I think you're missing more obvious reasons why Lies of P isn't as well celebrated: The setting is less appealing to people. Dark Souls is essentially your typical fantasy RPG, except with real-time combat that is far better than anything before it. It has that dark fantasy atmosphere that people look for. Bloodborne is to Call of Cthulhu what Dark Souls is to D&D. Sekiro is Samurais. Ghost of Tsushima was extremely popular and beloved - also Samurai. People like Samurai. Samurai sells. Cthulhu sells. D&D sells. Unfortunately, French steam puppet Pinocchio does not sell as well, particularly coming out just after a Pinocchio movie. It's not that anyone thinks it's a bad game, it's just a less appealing setting. Look at all the attention Lords of the Fallen got, despite being a much worse game. It had that Soulsborne atmosphere that Lies of P only partly captured. All that said, remember that Dark Souls was not popular when it first launched. It took a few years. I expect people will pick up Lies of P on sale, and like it when they give it a chance. I fully expect it to see it topping many of those "Best games you never played" lists next year and onwards.
I also think its because mecha and "puppets" are more niche in Japan. Armored core 6 is amazing but nowhere near as popular compared to the other FS games. I bought Lies of P blind and didnt realize there are other enemies like corpses and humans you fight. Even my niche game I love Steel Rising fell under the radar really quick despite being souls like.
I'm not sure if I'd say my arguments don't make sense, but I think you do bring up a good point. The setting is definitely going to be a turn off for some. But I feel like if you liked Bloodborne, there's a chance you'll like Lies of P as well. To me, the art direction and atmosphere of Lies of P is pretty impressive, so I guess I never looked at that as a con.
Thanks for sharing that perspective!
Will people get mad at me if I say “I Think Lies Of P is better than DS1, D2, (debating on 3), and Sekiro, and maybe even Elden Ring” (also mainly because LOP is shorter and in my opinion has a lot more consistent enjoyment then ER)
I mean, I wouldn't worry, I can totally see some people liking Lies of P quite a bit more than even some From Software games. I mentioned in the video that Lies of P does some things actually better than From Soft even, so its entirely possible to like LoP more.
That said, for me, personally, I think I like Elden Ring more just because there's more build variety, secrets and scale. That said, I could totally see Round 8 Studio and Neowiz doing even better in the sequel that they announced!
You get the feeling that FromSoft games are sacred, and to say that Lies of P does some things even better is blasphemy of the worst kind. But honestly, I felt the same way. For me, Lies of P scratches the surface of perfection. In Elden Ring, the level design of the endgame has not completely convinced me and recycling some bosses was also a bit underwhelming at some point. However, Elden Ring is a clear 10/10 game, no question. But my favorite FromSoft games are DS3 and Bloodborne so far. These also border on perfection and can therefore be mentioned in the same breath as Lies op P in my opinion.
@@xxxxx7xxxxx1 my ranking would probably be
1: Bloodborne
2: Lies Of P
3: Dark Souls 3
DS3 has everything great about soulgames with a lot of enjoyment and nice and open but not too open either. And I don’t think I have to explain myself for Bloodborne
@@spinebot7556 It's nearly impossible to rank these 3 games as they are all on the same level for me. DS3 has a special place in my heart because it's my first souls-experience and I was so proud after reaching the end of the game.
@@xxxxx7xxxxx1 Also (this is just another thought I had) I think other than Godfrey and The Elden Beast, all the bosses in DS3 were better than the bosses in ER
Honestly I was very disappointed at youtubers/streamers I follow give this game low scores, especially Rurikhan and Fighting Cowboy, and then actually give Lords of the Fallen a high review to the point of Fextra calling it the best soulslike. That game is horrendously bad I honestly can't believe people enjoyed it. While this literal masterpiece of a game was not getting the praise it actually deserved. Lies of P DLC will skyrocket it to FS level, and promised sequal will improve much. It's already a 9/10. We actually have a FS competitor here and if this is their first try imagine what could they do with experience.
I think the bigger issue is with the state of soulslikes in general. The fact that fromsoft has most of these concepts in its own games and explored them pretty thoroughly kinda holds this game back even though it’s pretty incredibly put together.
It’s just that fromsoft pretty much fully explored this genre so much so that they had to make a gigantic open world game just for it to feel slightly new.
I don't disagree that From Software is ahead. There's nothing quite like Elden Ring. That said, no one has gotten this close, to what they do. And since FromSoftware is only one team, I welcome more experiences like there's in the gaming landscape!
I think this is where the most important thing becomes the world and story. That's part of what I liked so much about lies of P, because it's world was so interesting and kept me looking at every little thing, and *different* from what we've seen in fromsoft's games. There's a lot of potential there as long as the gameplay holds up.
Honestly? Despite playing through all of the DS games, I could not really get into ER. I feel like FS actually lost a part of what made their earlier games great with ER. LoP isn't the same as the old games, but I feel it's closer in some ways.
The "soulslike" term is a subgenre that people enjoy, it not a one and done thing, the fun is exploring these different settings and worlds the different mechanics and bosses and enemies and stories, in the end its a 3rd person action rpg, just because other devs have made other 3rd person action RPGs doesn't mean there's no need for more, genres and subgenres exist for a reason. I like the formula created by Fromsoftwere a lot and I don't care how many are made as lomg as they nail the formula well and making engaging worlds for me to experience, it's the same reason why I like metroidvania's and fighting games. Fromsoftwere never created a steampunk game set in 1900 france inspired by the story of Pinocchio that's a completely different setting, world, and theme.
I’ve played through the game 5 times at this point. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I love it, so much so that it has a place in my personal top 5 favorite games of all time.
Its definitely high up there for me, and a constant comparison point to newer souls like and even From Software games at this point.
Since Sekiro I've enjoyed the parry centric combat style. I became interested in LoP after watching Ongbal play the demo. I always pronounced it "Ong" as in "bong" without the "b" and "ball," but I have never heard an official pronunciation. After playing the demo at least 3 times and NG+4 with almost 200 hrs, this is one of the best games I've played in years.
I am starting to step back from it making time for SF6 again. I don't think you have to be fighting game player to like this game but I do fall into that category.
I frankly don't think it matters much if some Fromsoft content creators don't like LoP much. LoP has made good sales, gained a lot of fans, on Steam all reviews is at "Very Positive" and on Twitch it is still being streamed with thousands of viewers 2 months after release.
Yeah Sekiro was the game that got me into parrying. I do find it funny that more games are doing Parry Systems now (even God of War Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 had parry systems). "Ong"ball seems to be the accepted pronunciation. A few people have already mentioned that same pronunciation. I'll make sure to say it properly in the future!
And I agree, I don't think you NEED to be a fighting game player, but I think people who play fighting games are just suited to dig deeper into Lies of P and unearth all its mechanics. Its more of how you approach games and sit with them, rather than any kind of mechanic overlap.
I need to get back into SF6, that game is definitely intense with all the new mechanics and what not!
I agree, I think it doesn't matter whether FromSoft fans like the game or not, but it was still a question that bugged me a bit. In terms of success, Lies of P definitely did well, but I dunno, I see people praising Lords of the Fallen and it hurts me a bit to not see Lies of P get some love :D
I've have not played LotF or plan to unless it drops a lot in price. From the reviews I've seen I don't think I would like it. There are a lot of technical issues, and questionable design choices. @@hardreseto
Such a good, well written and well presented video. Keep offering quality presentation like this and your sub count is guaranteed to rise rapidly. Well done!
Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm honestly blown away by the positive feedback on this video. I'm already working on a few others, so I hope to get your thoughts on the next one!
Honestly: Great review. I think you did a great job explaining why Lies of P is hard to get into even as a Soulbourne Vet. I bought and play every Soulsgame twice and play Sekiro once a month and Lies of P feels like a straight up Fromsoft game. If the combat doesn’t click I can imagine that your points are all right, but I personally found the games systems just as complicated as in other Soulsbourne games. I have 3 playthorughs on record, my first took me about 17 hours, my second normal one about 12 as I knew where to go and what weapon to use and where to find upgrades. But the NG+ ones? My god. I wanted the platinum so I speedran the game and holy shit some bosses like king of puppets or the swamp monster SPIKE HARD in difficulty. It took me 10 hours while running through every level and just killing bosses. The perfect guard really becomes important, dodging just doesn’t cut it anymore because 1 fuck up usually means your very low on health or dead. But even her: It felt fair and just as hard to master as every other fromsoft game. My only real complaint about this game is the abhorrent tracking on some enemy attacks and some animations like Simon manus‘ jump attack are pretty bad and it becomes a memory game of when to parry. But all in all I just think LoP is not that praised bc many play it like a soulsgame, as you said. But learning it isn’t really much harder than any other souls game.
Thank you for the kind words! As for the difficulty of the game, I'm inclined to say that you're naturally just talented at Video games, if not Souls likes specifically. Different strokes for different folks of course. I may be getting older in my thirties haha, slower reaction times and what not, but I still had a great time with the game.
I haven't hit NG++ but just NG+ has been a lot more challenging and I've had to basically make sure I make less mistakes. Its actually really fun in its own way, and I'm savoring going through the game a second time.
I do agree that a lot of the late bosses become more or less about pattern memorization, but I honestly didn't mind it as much because I feel like some of the optional bosses in Sekiro were like that too (I remember how long I spent on the Owl Father boss in the flashback, for instance).
Thank you for the long and detailed comment!
I loved every single second of the game. Lies of P truly knows how to capture the essence that makes Souls games so appealing.
As a fromsoft veteran, lies of P is now one of my favorite souls games of all time. I put it above DS1 and 2. It’s probably below 3 for me but just by a hair. I loved every minute of this game.
The Bloodborne we never got on PC :)
I do not play souls games or souls likes and when I played this game I loved it so much I got the Platinum trophy for it
Lies of P is a beautiful masterpiece. Many mechanics surpassed what even FromSoftware themselves could achieve, but it was only possible with the foundation they'd laid out for the subgenre.
100% agree
I will admit that I held a very heavy bias when first playing this game. It doesn’t have the environment, lore, characters, creativity or level of polish that FromSoft puts in there games. This held my opinions back and stopped me from enjoying the game. But, it doesn’t need to be FromSoft. It took me awhile but I came back and really played with an open mind and ended up loving this game. I still have my preferences and still think FromSoft are absolute in the ability to make incredible experiences. But that’s not fair to this game or the team behind it.
I know fucking love this Game 😢
Same! And the good news is that the game did really well, and that there's DLC and a sequel in the works so... Us fans of the game will be getting more in the future! 🤩
I love it.
the problem is weapon balance, heavy weapons suck because theres no poise.
If you play a dex weapon like the rapier, the game is a 10/10 experience from start to finish.
All animations are fast and you never feel trapped in them, everything is just smooth and works
I definitely agree that the Strength based weapons and just strength builds in general in this game are not as great as Technique/Dex. There are definitely ways to get around that with certain weapons and Legion arms, but Dex/Technique is definitely the favored build in the game.
I can honestly say that I hate that I love this game. It’s my first Souls-ish game and after 26+ hours in I can honestly say that I’m loving the game play but the bosses (and many mini bosses for that matter) leave me feeling like a masochist that’s a glutton for punishment but I can’t put it down since the game is just SO beautiful. The art, the story, the mix of familiarity yet originality so it’s all fresh. It’s an amazing game. I just wish it was more open-world. I understand the linear style makes the game more puzzle like in having to open the shortcuts, I just wish it was a little more open.
I have to say man, like another commenter here, you jumped into Souls games on the deep end of the pool. This is hands down the hardest souls games I've played (And I beat All of them save for Dark Souls 2).
That said, if you're looking for something more open than definitely check out some of the FromSoftware Games (Elden Ring is the obvious choice, but Sekiro might not be bad once you finish this game). If its atmosphere and exploration, then Bloodborne on PS4 is what hands down inspired this game (and this is a lot more open, with some secret areas and what not).
All in all, I'm really glad you stuck with this game, as I can imagine this would be pretty frustrating as your first Souls like! Keep at it, the last few bosses are particularly hard, but that sense of reward only gets better and better!
Man I love dark souls and bloodborne like anyone else. But this game is ABSOLUTELY BELOVED by me. It is very special. The tone, the story, the music.. it has such an amazing, unique charm. It’s original, and extremely fun to play on top of that.
Great video!
Thank you so much! Glad you liked it!
I really like this game, but one thing I wish it did better, is to offer more possibility for exploration.
What I really love about, say DS3, was the replayability (didn't find nameless king until NG+), and all the little paths one could take that weren't obvious. Lies of P didn't really include much of this, and I think it's something that would elevate the game to a higher level (for me at least). Other than that, the art design, music and combat all clicked with me. I think parrying in this game is smoother than in the DS games.
I've heard that criticism, and I think its a fair one. Personally, I really liked how linear and well thought out the game was. There were some opportunities for Exploration with some of the side quests and the Riddle King Rooms. That said, yeah, I can see this as an area where the sequel can definitely expand upon.
Me who just uses strength since DS. " *Confused* If it hits hard it's good."
I'm 27 and lies of p is the game that made me feel like a 9 Year old kid again! It was pure dopamine joyride no game made me feel like that in years.
Haha, I'm in my thirties and I totally felt the same way!
I have no experience with soulslike games and am typically not one to be completionist. Even with my favorite games it is always getting through the story above gameplay and then being done with it. Lies of P changed that for me entirely. I was able to stay completely immersed in the world with the compelling characters and unique storytelling even with the hours and hours of fighting the same boss over and over which somehow never grew tedious. I adore this game in everything that it is.
clickbait
That's fair haha. Can't blame a guy for trying to get people to watch his video on a game he loves though, right? =]
I think it's worth noting here that I beat the game yesterday, technique build, no specters, no consumables, and *no guarding* pretty much ever. I would try sometimes in a panic for the red attacks but didn't really get the timing often. Dodging the whole time absolutely works. Red attacks can be maneuvered around. It was really incredible and satisfying because the game's animations are so fluid, consistent, and readable that I was often dodging through or running around attacks I hadn't seen before. Laxasia took 50 tries but Simon took only one. It was really fun to play it like I did Bloodborne years and years ago, but I could see myself doing a new playthrough with other weapons and trying all guarding, minimal dodging, and having an amazing time all over again. I just want to be clear that you don't actually have to do that.
Anyway, Lies of P is such a masterpiece.
I feel like it is beloved though? Especially as it ages
Honestly, after seeing the comments on this video, I'm pretty hopeful that it will be remembered a lot more fondly than I originally thought when I decided to make this video. I had been seeing people really praise Lords of the Fallen and kind of give this game less praise, so I guess its another situation where content creators/reviewers and the general gaming audience had two different experiences :D
@@hardreseto I must be on the other side of youtube lol. It seems to me like it was appreciated more after being compared to lords of the fallen. Great video and obviously I agree with everything else.
Well i kinda get your point. Lies of p Is indeed a very well polished game with a unique artstyle complementing its setting. But if we wanna understand why the game didn't do so well we must look at multiple things both games have going for them. But i am not going put a down a monster read here, so i'll use myself and friends as examples.
Many of my friends myself uncluded find that the art direction is what puts me of the most. Not that its bad art or anything. But i found the dark astethic from bloodborne a lot better (Just my opinion). When i walked through world of dark souls, bloodborne and elden ring i was costantly wondering, what happend here? Which lies of p only accasionally managed to do. Is it because i don't like the astethic? I can't say. But a lot of my friends feel the same. So i think, lies of p not doing so well is because not many people dig the art direction. Elden ring is kind of an anomaly in fromsoftware's line-up as none of their games did so well before. Why is that? I think because the game looked like high a fanatasy rpg with a lot of traditional elements (to western civilisation) which people can more easily identify with. This is just my take, so feel free to blast my opinion if you'd like.
I think not liking the art direction or general world of the game is a really good reason to not like the game. I honestly hadn't considered it, since I actually really dig the art style and look and feel of the game. But I can totally see some people not liking those things as a matter of taste. Interesting perspective, so thank you for sharing!
I do like the game, just not as much as i did bloodborne or dark souls for example. The combat is lies of p's strongest point and i had an absolute blast getting to learn its intricacies.
The Puppet King was where I really had to learn parrying. It's also where the game started crashing regularly for me lol. So that certainly extended the time it took to beat the game. I saw something about the gamepass version having that issue so maybe I'll have to get it on Steam eventually.
Theres two sides to the souls-like community. Those who like riding Fromsoft like its somone's meat, while refusing to appreciate any game like this made by someone who ISN'T Fromsoft, and those who like the FORMULA Fromsoft created, while actively enjoying when the FORMULA is well implemented.
People who enjoyed this game are the latter, most people who dislike this game or call it bad, are the former.
Unlike most souls-likes, LoP managed to create its own Identity by mixing previously created mechanics, while creating new ones that click with what they've done here.
I personally liked this game more than Elden Ring (not a fan of the open world setting they created, its exhausting) the animations are extremely well done, the NPCs have very interesting backstories, the story itself is pretty damn good, the Lore is more accessible than it is in Fromsoft games, while still being pretty interesting, and there are things that they did better than Fromsoft themselves (leveling up cost doesn't spike all of a sudden into the hundreds of thousands). This game is also one of the very few Souls-like to actually make Boss-weapons feel rewarding to use, and making them all look memorable and different from eachother.
Love this game to death.
I mean I really like FromSoft Games, but I'm also always up for seeing other devs use their ideas and do something unique like you mentioned for Lies of P.
I totally agree about the Boss Weapons as well. Two Dragon Sword was just awesome, and I've stuck with it after I got that one!
Give it time. The initial release was great but rougher due to some moves being locked behind the skill unlock system and other tiny details. Base moveset right now is perfect and its current state is a masterpiece.
It's beloved by many, it's just got a mid to borderline bad parry window. Many ppl got tired of that
i honestly wish they didnt go with the parry system they chose to go with. its fine, it works but its just not great.
LOP is the 4th best Souls type game I have played and beaten. And that is practically all of them except beating Nioh which I have not yet
Played this game cuz of xQc and is by far one of my favorite souls game. I kinda had low expectations at first but I fell in love with it. Love the combat, art style, and boss fights
finally someone has managed to sum up exactly how I feel about lies of p and say exactly everything I've been wanting to hear from some of the larger content creators like cowboy or some of the other larger Souls base creators. lies of p is my goty hands down and when I heard people saying they finished the game in 30 hours, I didn't understand because it took me close to 70. You explained perfectly why that happens and p just has a very deep, nuanced set of systems that once learned become some of the best in gaming. Thank you for the excellent analysis, you summed it up perfectly.
Thank you for the kind words. One of the reasons I made the video is because I really did feel like the game wasn't getting its due or being explained properly, so I'm glad I was somewhat successful in that goal.
Finished the game yesterday, thereby "unlocking" looking up information, video's, etc. Loved this video. Being a Dark Souls fan, I thoroughly enjoyed Pinocchio, as I like to refer to the game. One question for everybody: did you use items at all? For example: the instant weapon repair, the ampoules, abrasives and fable catalists. I didn't used them, because I didn't feel the need for it. I enjoyed the combination of pulse cells, legion arms and special grindstones in the combat and that was sufficient.
The game is absolutely fantastic in allowing to play it with your favourable playstyle if you dig a bit deeper into the mechanics. You can choose to play with perfect parries, you can choose not to parry ever and always trying to dodge (that's what I did), you can make it harder or easier for yourself almost as much as you want by deciding if you want to use spectres and throwables (I did that, too)... great!
Don't forget to add an additional 5ish hours for trying out all of the handle and blade combinations.
Haha True! When I was going through my footage, I had a few chunks of just switching out weapon combinations and practicing on the dummy next to the weapon lady!
Well it's beloved by me...