How do I respond to Jean Vanier sex abuse revelations? • Ask NT Wright Anything
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- Tom Wright responds to a listener who feels let down and betrayed by L’Arche founder Jean Vanier after a report showed he had sexually abused women during his life.
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There’s no excuse for bad abusive behaviour. Don’t talk your way out of it! Harvey Weinstein was also a visionary but his private behaviours were inexcusable!
I’m on the side of the victim, end of!
Totally agree ,fully support all those people who suffered at this abusers hands. Maybe they should receive revenue from his books as compensation.
The problem with the question is Wright is not intimately informed about L’arche scandal. He doesn’t know the damage to the entire community, the women who were damaged, etc. How can Wright have so much to say when he’s so poorly informed? It almost feels that he has more empathy for Vanier than for those whose trust and bodies were violated. Let’s ask about the families of these women and how they felt betrayed by God because Vanier was “a living saint”.
What about the L’Arche board? Why are we not talking about their role in perpetuating this evil?
Now, L’arche is likely to crash down under lawsuits and infamy. God’s name is damaged once again by hero worship and lack of accountability
How was he a saint....to be declared a saint one had to have performed a miracle, vanier did not...sure he had great religious knowledge.....
@@albertking8842 A saint is anyone belonging to the body of Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You can't earn it
@Beth No such thing
@Beth To be a saint is an unearned status in heaven and on earth. What is the catholic motivation to become an earthly saint? Self-interest. Please correct me if i'm wrong
@Beth How does one become an earthly saint in the catholic church?
It seems like NT Wright wasn't well versed in the harm Vanier caused. In fact, maybe turning to Wright at a moment like this - putting him in an authoritative position when he is less informed than many who care deeply about the L'Arche and vulnerable people - puts Wright on a pedestal that is unfair (and dangerous) for him to be upon.
Completely agree.
I normally value NT Wright BUT this is very poor.... here we are blaming people for putting Christian leaders on pedestals! ....it does cast a very black cloud over ALL of Vanier’s life- he was a premeditated sexual predator who colluded with another one and sexually abused women when he was supposed to be their Shepherd. Vanier used his faith to manipulate women for sexual gratification. Let’s call it what it is - he may have even done all the ‘good works’ as a cover for his behaviour- seriously let’s think about the women who he abused and not make excuses for this man.
So agree with you.
Well said. It’s gaslighting.
The hypocracy and warped obsession with sex,shame and sin of the Catholic church is truly remarkable.
No wonder parents now keep their children well away from priests.
It's more than just a shadow it was lewd and cunning what he had done to these women and he covered for his sick mentor too! Both swapped notes about women they abused
What do we know about the character of St. Paul? (The founder of Christianity) These Murderous hunters in bygone days were NATURAL RAPIST, MOLESTERS, and can add on a few more adjectives, Cheers..
Also a liar .......and I think he would have known the 10 Commandments. We are called to judge those in the Church - that’s what Church discipline is for. Women labelled vulnerable or impressionable is extremely stereotypical & may not be accurate. Sexual sin is separated from other sins as the consequences are much greater. Vanier has betrayed the victims first & foremost. Blaming people for wanting people to be on a pedestal or on the floor- this is not what the Church wants at all! Let’s not call it a shadow - it’s a serious darkness & he was an abuser and a deceiver.
Agreed.
Disgusting to see this man making excuses for Vanier.
"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." [Alexander Solzhenitsyn]
"...and who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart ?"
@@dorinmicu7511 And even if they have the will, no human could actually do it when "the heart is more deceitful than anything." [Jer 17:9]
Why did the women wait till Jean Vanier had passed to accuse him of such things ? He didnt even have a trial did he ..?
I love the grace of this response.
If Vanier took pastoral, physical, or psychological advantage of these women it is wrong. Though, with sin, in some cases, it takes "two to tango" so to speak. Vanier would still be wrong. But the presumption of vulnerability or naivety on the part of all the women involved bothers me. Choices are made. The out, if sin is willful, cannot always be well he or she was in a position of authority or was looked up to and I was vulnerable.
Jean V's words seemed to come from a place of heart, soul and understanding. I knew he was human, and I could understand if he was caught losing his temper, telling a white lie, or even giving into temptation in a mutual situation. What upsets me is that when I now listen to the same words that were once nourishing, all i can see is psychological manipulation and motive. Was any of it real? I now question whether he's ever molested any handicapped women.
it's very shocking,indeed. I get your frustration.
As a one of big fan of Vanier(used to be) , I read loads of his books and even met him in person. I did volunteer at L'arche , adored him.
My faith had been enriched by his great faith.... so his sexual harassment came to me a great shock.
It's hard to believe someone especially with authourity
@@111min5 Wow, I appreciate your understanding. At least we know the one thing that was real was your heart and the growth that came from that.
@@xXTumblinXx My apology for missing some phrases but I really did adore him and my faith and personal life had been lead by his work. so when that incident came out .. I was in shock.
It's very dangerous to have trust in human than God , cause in the end of the day , they are nothing but human.
What I dislike about Vanier is that he had opportunity to repent his sin and confess to the others on the contrary he kept in silence and disguise as a disciple of God. And who knows there are much more victims of him .
We should keep an eye on what our faith are heading to. Humans are just humans...
@@111min5 I admire that you followed your calling, and am sorry for your sense of betrayal. I am going through a sequence of similar experiences with my brother, a friend, my country, the world: things and people that I loved all my life. I see a side I've never seen before, nothing is what I thought it was. It's something I am trying to reconcile and come to terms with; our dark side; something I thought I learned a long time ago.
@@xXTumblinXx Well, in the end of the day humans are just humans. Whether they dedicate their lives to the poor or praying in the convent. I don't believe saints as well in that sense.
I'd like to recommend you a film 'Silence' by Scorsese
It's way more than "shadows", though to be fair, this video was from 3 years ago. The reports that came out recently are horrific.
The interview seems to me out of time as Wright is not prepped well enough on the issue. He appears here to be excusing some bad judgements whereas it seems there may be a lot more here than Vanier being a sinful man of his time.
Very disappointing stance from Wright. Very disappointing.
I did feel Wright was downplaying the seriousness of what Vanier did.
Did the victims report it to the police when J. Vanier lived? If I was a victim of sexual abuse, I would report it immediately in order to protect others. He didn't live and work alone, but in community.
A very good point, indeed.
As a person whom encountered Mr.Vanier by chance and who is the victim of domestic violence , it's not easy for victim to raise their voice especially for sexual abuse or violence which came from 'Authority' such as parents or someone like Vanier who has power. Firstly, victims normally put themselves to self-denying process
'He is a priest ' or 'He is my father ' 'Maybe that was my mistake etc' or that act might came out of love etc etc.
Secondly, victims keep silence because authority doesn't allow them to raise your voice. My case was different but for me recognising severe domestic violence, gaslighting of my father took me more than 15years.
Shadows instead of sin. Wrongdoing sin wicked infested nature.
He who is without sin will cast the first stone...and yet many a disabled person bless the good initiative he took on their behalf.
Definitely agree. Yes, Jean Vanier did harm in sexually exploiting/ abusing some of the women in L'arche who seeked him out for psychological/ spiritual guidance and help. Yes, it was wrong. However, how he helped people with disabilities is of the highest magnitude of goodness. He dedicated and sacrificed his life to be one of the greatest leaders and proponents of our time for the most vulnerable and unwanted people of our world. The saying, "when you accuse and point your finger at another for their wrongdoing, you have three of your own fingers pointing back at you " pertains to all of us humans.
Or he used his good works to justify abusing women.
@@darrinhoffman4061 Humans are humans but religion is poison. It's a scam. It's the worst kind of exploitation. However, humans are capable of accessing more information than in anytime in history but still continue to get information from a snake oil salesmen. People act surprised when people in positions of power exploit. 😲
Was Vanier’s work a tireless edifice to propagate his sin? Or was his sin merely a deviation from a tireless edifice to his Christianity? Vanier didn’t merely have an affair with a woman, but he conducted multiple, manipulative affairs with those who held vows or were even married... I would hope for the latter, but I think it may be the former...
Interestingly I just saw on Father Brown a similar storyline where the priest was abusing the young women.
1) how old are these women today? Do we know who they are? I just curious.
2) we know better now, that a mentor is never of the opposite sex.
Glosses over what this narcissist did
Thank you! The point at 4.45 that it's to do with something in our culture is so spot-on. How Christians speak into that culture about these things is therefore all the more important - and it's doubly important that Christians do not, wittingly or un-wittingly, take on board the pre-suppositions and therefore the language of that culture. I pray for wisdom in this, for all of us.
Quale valore giuridico ha un provvedimento emesso quando Jean era già morto, senza possibilità di difesa, da organi privi di alcuna legittimità giurisdizionale ?
He was a user, and abuser, and he covered it which is saying that he knew how wrong it was. And you are N T wrong not right.
No, I do not believe this.
An answer full of wisdom. Thanks a lot. God bless you!
Wisdom? You’re deluded
Fruits of the spirit 💩
The parochial church has accountability ? What a joke. Just look at Catholic and the Christ denying Anglican church
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Jesus died for you!
Who's is this bearded lightweight 'Christian'? Way to shine light on sin brother. Truly pathetic.
Praise be....he liked women, coulda been a lot worse.....
I like women I don't take advantage of their vulnerability
Abuse is abuse...woman, man or child.
Any sin/offense in the eyes of the law that had a negative affect on any human being regardless of race, sex or gender is wrong. That religious philosopher and predator is no different than the ones you see on any of Chris Hansen's shows about predators. And while we don't know the whole information or who these women are and how old they were when he committed those acts, I wouldn't be surprised if they were underage.