Hi Phil, I built a frame to carry my 250kg Harley on the back of my old Merc 709. I did some moment calculations, and mounted the spare wheel on the front of the van to counteract forces. Van max was 6600kg, and finished weight was in fact 4400kg, so loads of spare capacity. End result, extra weight on the back made rear leaf springs work for their living, resulting in a much softer and more comfortable ride! Fitted a manual boat winch to pull bike up ramp onto rack. Project is looking fab! Great job. 👍
Cheers Mike, Yeah at that 250kg mark it's gotta be right & funny you should talk weights, cos it's all change. After delving into the vehicles technical specification around cab limitations, further questioning the legislation, taking advice from a vehicle consultant, DVSA inspector, and having the axles weighed, I've decided to go with plan A (amendment 1) 😀 I'll explain more in a future video but in short, we have a workaround to put the spare on the rear 👍🏻😀 Never a dull moment 🙈😂🙏
I'm doing the same as you. I started with a crew cab cab over Isuzu 4x4 commercial vehicle. I planned the habitat build for two years. As you know there are 1,000s of parts, tax shipping and various costs. We built our own articulating subframe. In the end I pivoted, due to my age and ordered a turn key habitat built custom to my specification. I did not want to spend two years on the build. I almost bought it from Australia. until a ex employee told me they buy the habitat from a China factory. So the Australian habitat turned out not to be Australian . In the end I bought the custom habitat at that China factory for less than the cost of just the parts. My total cost for everything including leather interior, is about $110K USD (including the truck). Seats 7, sleep 4. And is 25 ft long , which is much shorter than many.
Oh Phil… we had a wheel and a heavy bike on the back of our overlander. We were within the 60% rule but the pendulum effect of all that weight hanging off the back was considerable. Do consider this as it makes a big difference to the handling. Notably we had to upgrade our leaf springs.
Hi Aiden, Thanks for your thoughts. If you've followed us for a while you'll know that we had a MAN LE 4x4 with a 4 point subframe previous to this. They are unquestionably a superb base for an overlander however, any base vehicle within the 8-12t (GVW) will struggle to carry much more than a spare wheel, a few sand ladders and maybe a small locker without overloading the rear axle. Add a reasonably heavy motorcycle (particularly up high) and it makes for an unstable ride (or as you put it "pendulum effect"), especially off-road. For this project, we set out specifically to buy an 18t base vehicle and knew from the off we'd build a rail-on-rail subframe. The strength of the larger vehicle chassis, coupled with the stability of the rail-on-rail is significant. Since this video, we've been in research mode and the design has changed due to veh specific technical limitations, delving deeper into legislation and having the axles weighed. I'll explain more in a future video. Appreciate your support Cheers Phil
@@TheGapDecaders Hi Phil, thanks for your insightful feedback, clearly you're fully aware of what I was talking about...notably the fact that our LE10.180 is struggling with an overloaded rear axle...in fact (shhhh) we're actually running at nearer 12 tonnes so struggle with too much body role and power deficit! Were actually thinking about getting the box put on a bigger base as you are with your 18 tonne rig....but our appetite for being on the road is waning due to the rapid changes in the world we see, regulation, border controls, cultural shifts, and oh the litter everywhere! Perhaps we need to get our truck fixed up properly and head for the 'Stans' and get some proper isolation under our belts! Anyway, I wish you guys continued success with your excellent build and that you'll be on the road soon....we have been following you for some years, so thank you for all your efforts in sharing your experiences, we feel like we know you as friends...👍
@@aidanmcleod8987 Hi Aidan, thank you for the reply, totally get it. I think going further afield in a truck like ours changes your perspective, we too love nature and those vast unspoilt places, the Stans are on our list too, along with the America's. Anyway, wherever you roam enjoy it, and thank you for the comments and support on the channel, it's appreciated. 🙏☺
Hoping to start a build on an NPR in the new year. Looking for a truck now. But I have to have room for my KTM 990 ADV. I was thinking the same lines as you with the the spare tire on the lift. Can’t wait to see how it goes.
It's all change with the bike & spare wheel rack. After a lot more head-scratching technical delving and legislative research, plus having the axles weighed, it's now Plan A (1) 🙈😀 I'll explain more in an upcoming video. Cheers phil👍🏻
6:34 looks like a German did your pipe layout 😮😊 Great to see all the progress. Do you find the build quality less, equal, or the same compared to your experience with the rack build quality in Turkey?
😂😂😂😂 Re plumbing, I'll take that 👍🏻 The build quality is pretty much equal, what's not equal is how much fabrication cost in the UK and Western Europe. Labour’s about 75% cheaper in Turkey.... we need to go back 😁🙏
I have planned on building a simular camper using an Isuzu FRR truck and 24' box. I'd be coming from a 37' Class A, and I know my wife will fuss about having less room in the camper if I built in a smaller box. She's a little spoiled by our current rig. (My current bike carrier for my Yamaha Super Tenere on my Class A is a swing out bike carrier that I used to build in the 70s when I worked for "Red Ant Cycle Carriers". (Now out of buisness) Google them in the US patents, and you can still get the patent design. The bike rail pivots out and down, meaning no need for a loading rail. Unless the truck is super tall. But a simple winch on the wheel stop can make loading a breeze. Then the rail and bike are swung back, and the rail raisies the bike back horizontal as it swings back to the rear of the truck.) But my plan is to build a reversed cabover type sleeping area out the rear. Then, do a motorcycle lift like you designed that would raise my motorcycle up under the bed area. Then I was going to hang the spare on the back wall of the bed box using a 12 volt winch to raise the spare tire up to its rack. This will allow me to not have to remove the motorcycle to get the tire down. I think you could still mount your spare over the bike on the rack, but build a left side swing out carrier for the tire so you can winch lower it without having to remove the bike. And the spare will not be in the way of loading the bike if it's swing out. Those steel channels are beefy enough for the job of both the bike and the spare carrier. I'm enjoying watching your processes. Wish I could help, but I'm in Texas!
Hi Curtis, totally get the RV space concern, we too moved from an A Class tag axle to a previous truck and had to loose stuff. We could mount the spare under the lift (as per image) but that adds significant weight to the rear axle, I’ve been determined to maintain a 50/50 weight distribution throughout the build and am reluctant to cantilever out too far. I’ve no problem removing the bike to access the spare but legally it simply sticks out too far. It’s not a done deal yet to watch this space 😅 Anyway, hello to Texas and thanks for your thoughts/suggestions 🙏😊
@@TheGapDecaders I'm actually looking for a truck to start my build right now, I was a professional coach builder and am extremely impressed by your very high standards
@@TheGapDecaders well that's the dilemma,euro 6 trucks are notorious for horrendous repair bills,(10grand not uncommon)yet if you get a euro 3 truck your restricted on where you can go
@@robertanderson-yx8mo You're absolutely spot on, I was determined our new project would be based on an 18t pre-electric truck. A MAN LE or M, possibly a Mercedes AK/SK or early Axor, but I just couldn’t get one (with less than 300km), plus the cost of the older trucks tripled in price. So, in the end, I decided on the TGM. We've already spent £8k on sorting it mechanically, which grates, but hopefully we're there. Good luck with the search 🙏
Loving the progress guys and the truck looks stunning. So much planning and work and pretty inspiring what can be achieved. My truck envy is barely under control however the question is what truck horns are you fitting? Dave
😂😂 cheers Dave, appreciate the feedback. In all honestly, it's all-consuming and I have to admit that although I'm enjoying the build process, I'm looking forward to completion and having a brerak 🙏😀
looking great guys, Just wondering about your water pipes, what blue and red pipes are you using, looks like your using 15mm speedfit fittings and some white normal pipe, but is the red and blue 15mm and is it the more flexible stuff compared to the white ?
Hi guys, thank you. The red, blue and white pipes are all 15mm JG as are most of the fittings. The clear reinforced hose came from Germany. The JG pipe isn’t that flexible, it’s ok but if you’re looking for a flexible high quality, food safe, high pressure hose check out a German company called Lilie. Not sure what size you’re after, you can source the red & blue 12.5mm hose pretty easily in the UK. Hope that’s of help 👍😊
@@TheGapDecaders didn’t realise they did the pipe in red and blue in 15mm now, I’ve always used the 15 household stuff (white) as it’s so much cheaper and easier to get than the camper specific 12mm stuff, but it’s allot more flexible than the normal white stuff, Thanks for getting back to me 👍
@@truebluetravellers As you say, the white pipe is cheap and easy to get - I just used red and blue collet clips on the JG fittings. I even used the white piping for the hydronic lines to the towel rail heaters, as the piping is ethyl glycol resistant.
Hey there :) Great vid! Do i get it right that you want to put a tyre casing with rim up on the Cabin? Because on the pictures you were showing us with the diffrent other ev`s they were only puting the tyre casing without a rim up there as a second or sometimes only replacement. You alwase have to put the tyre casing on the rim if there is the need to change tyres.... Puting the whole spare wheel up there is too heavy for the cab suspension etc... German MAN specialists Toni Maurer and KLA Trucks wont reccomend you that as well and in the german social media communities or online forums there are some ppl writing about that topic and mistakes they made...
Hello and thank you for taking the time to comment. The illustrations were to try and demonstrate the different thinking in terms of options with the spare wheel or bike lift combo. I've been doing a lot of research since then, both in terms of legislation and understanding the vehicle specific limitations. I've also had the axles weighed and have decided to change the design, I'll explain more in a future video but really appreciate your thoughts. 🙏☺
Hi Phil, Have been following for a while and congratulation on how the build is going. I am off to Africa next year in my truck and i notice that the bike / tyre combination means you only have one spare. Is this something you have been comfortable on your many journey’s?
Hi Mike, Thank you, the original "original plan" was to have a complete spare (with rim) on the rear with the bike and an additional tyre on the cab roof. However, we'd only carry the spare tyre (on the cab) when venturing further, such as Africa, the Americas or the Stans. That said, after a huge amount of vehicle specific research, legislative delving and weighing the axles... it's all change with the bike spare/bike. I'll explain more in a future video. Cheers Phil
We used to carry a Honda PCX which was brilliant and very lightweight, but we want to off-road two up where the truck is too large - not sure a money would cut that :)
Another cracking, informative, and of course inspirational video.
Can I ask about the table. It looks perfect for something I have in mind.
I’d like to know about the table stand too please
Hi Phil, I built a frame to carry my 250kg Harley on the back of my old Merc 709. I did some moment calculations, and mounted the spare wheel on the front of the van to counteract forces. Van max was 6600kg, and finished weight was in fact 4400kg, so loads of spare capacity. End result, extra weight on the back made rear leaf springs work for their living, resulting in a much softer and more comfortable ride! Fitted a manual boat winch to pull bike up ramp onto rack. Project is looking fab! Great job. 👍
Cheers Mike,
Yeah at that 250kg mark it's gotta be right & funny you should talk weights, cos it's all change.
After delving into the vehicles technical specification around cab limitations, further questioning the legislation, taking advice from a vehicle consultant, DVSA inspector, and having the axles weighed, I've decided to go with plan A (amendment 1) 😀
I'll explain more in a future video but in short, we have a workaround to put the spare on the rear 👍🏻😀
Never a dull moment 🙈😂🙏
I'm doing the same as you. I started with a crew cab cab over Isuzu 4x4 commercial vehicle. I planned the habitat build for two years. As you know there are 1,000s of parts, tax shipping and various costs. We built our own articulating subframe. In the end I pivoted, due to my age and ordered a turn key habitat built custom to my specification. I did not want to spend two years on the build. I almost bought it from Australia. until a ex employee told me they buy the habitat from a China factory. So the Australian habitat turned out not to be Australian . In the end I bought the custom habitat at that China factory for less than the cost of just the parts. My total cost for everything including leather interior, is about $110K USD (including the truck). Seats 7, sleep 4. And is 25 ft long , which is much shorter than many.
What a beast of a truck! Get that baby on the road :) ! Looking forward to watching future adventures (again.)
Thank you, we're itching & can’t wait 🙏😀🍷
Oh Phil… we had a wheel and a heavy bike on the back of our overlander. We were within the 60% rule but the pendulum effect of all that weight hanging off the back was considerable. Do consider this as it makes a big difference to the handling. Notably we had to upgrade our leaf springs.
Hi Aiden,
Thanks for your thoughts.
If you've followed us for a while you'll know that we had a MAN LE 4x4 with a 4 point subframe previous to this.
They are unquestionably a superb base for an overlander however, any base vehicle within the 8-12t (GVW) will struggle to carry much more than a spare wheel, a few sand ladders and maybe a small locker without overloading the rear axle.
Add a reasonably heavy motorcycle (particularly up high) and it makes for an unstable ride (or as you put it "pendulum effect"), especially off-road.
For this project, we set out specifically to buy an 18t base vehicle and knew from the off we'd build a rail-on-rail subframe.
The strength of the larger vehicle chassis, coupled with the stability of the rail-on-rail is significant.
Since this video, we've been in research mode and the design has changed due to veh specific technical limitations, delving deeper into legislation and having the axles weighed.
I'll explain more in a future video.
Appreciate your support
Cheers Phil
@@TheGapDecaders Hi Phil, thanks for your insightful feedback, clearly you're fully aware of what I was talking about...notably the fact that our LE10.180 is struggling with an overloaded rear axle...in fact (shhhh) we're actually running at nearer 12 tonnes so struggle with too much body role and power deficit! Were actually thinking about getting the box put on a bigger base as you are with your 18 tonne rig....but our appetite for being on the road is waning due to the rapid changes in the world we see, regulation, border controls, cultural shifts, and oh the litter everywhere! Perhaps we need to get our truck fixed up properly and head for the 'Stans' and get some proper isolation under our belts! Anyway, I wish you guys continued success with your excellent build and that you'll be on the road soon....we have been following you for some years, so thank you for all your efforts in sharing your experiences, we feel like we know you as friends...👍
@@aidanmcleod8987 Hi Aidan, thank you for the reply, totally get it.
I think going further afield in a truck like ours changes your perspective, we too love nature and those vast unspoilt places, the Stans are on our list too, along with the America's.
Anyway, wherever you roam enjoy it, and thank you for the comments and support on the channel, it's appreciated. 🙏☺
Hoping to start a build on an NPR in the new year. Looking for a truck now. But I have to have room for my KTM 990 ADV. I was thinking the same lines as you with the the spare tire on the lift. Can’t wait to see how it goes.
It's all change with the bike & spare wheel rack.
After a lot more head-scratching technical delving and legislative research, plus having the axles weighed, it's now Plan A (1) 🙈😀
I'll explain more in an upcoming video.
Cheers phil👍🏻
Great stuff and love the table top👍
Thank you and err... thank you 😀👍🏻
6:34 looks like a German did your pipe layout 😮😊
Great to see all the progress.
Do you find the build quality less, equal, or the same compared to your experience with the rack build quality in Turkey?
😂😂😂😂 Re plumbing, I'll take that 👍🏻
The build quality is pretty much equal, what's not equal is how much fabrication cost in the UK and Western Europe.
Labour’s about 75% cheaper in Turkey.... we need to go back 😁🙏
more progress, looking great.
Cheers Kev, yeah just trying to keep the momentum going 🙏😀
I have planned on building a simular camper using an Isuzu FRR truck and 24' box. I'd be coming from a 37' Class A, and I know my wife will fuss about having less room in the camper if I built in a smaller box. She's a little spoiled by our current rig.
(My current bike carrier for my Yamaha Super Tenere on my Class A is a swing out bike carrier that I used to build in the 70s when I worked for "Red Ant Cycle Carriers". (Now out of buisness) Google them in the US patents, and you can still get the patent design. The bike rail pivots out and down, meaning no need for a loading rail. Unless the truck is super tall. But a simple winch on the wheel stop can make loading a breeze. Then the rail and bike are swung back, and the rail raisies the bike back horizontal as it swings back to the rear of the truck.)
But my plan is to build a reversed cabover type sleeping area out the rear. Then, do a motorcycle lift like you designed that would raise my motorcycle up under the bed area. Then I was going to hang the spare on the back wall of the bed box using a 12 volt winch to raise the spare tire up to its rack. This will allow me to not have to remove the motorcycle to get the tire down.
I think you could still mount your spare over the bike on the rack, but build a left side swing out carrier for the tire so you can winch lower it without having to remove the bike. And the spare will not be in the way of loading the bike if it's swing out.
Those steel channels are beefy enough for the job of both the bike and the spare carrier.
I'm enjoying watching your processes. Wish I could help, but I'm in Texas!
Hi Curtis, totally get the RV space concern, we too moved from an A Class tag axle to a previous truck and had to loose stuff.
We could mount the spare under the lift (as per image) but that adds significant weight to the rear axle, I’ve been determined to maintain a 50/50 weight distribution throughout the build and am reluctant to cantilever out too far.
I’ve no problem removing the bike to access the spare but legally it simply sticks out too far.
It’s not a done deal yet to watch this space 😅
Anyway, hello to Texas and thanks for your thoughts/suggestions 🙏😊
Bon courage pour la suite des travaux 👍
Merci, j'apprecie le soutien 🙏☺
Living your dreams fantastic build good luck to you both
Hi Robert, thank you and appreciate you saying 👍🏻😀
@@TheGapDecaders I'm actually looking for a truck to start my build right now, I was a professional coach builder and am extremely impressed by your very high standards
@@robertanderson-yx8mo Thank you, appreciate you saying.
Great skillset to have, what sort of thing are you after?
@@TheGapDecaders well that's the dilemma,euro 6 trucks are notorious for horrendous repair bills,(10grand not uncommon)yet if you get a euro 3 truck your restricted on where you can go
@@robertanderson-yx8mo You're absolutely spot on, I was determined our new project would be based on an 18t pre-electric truck.
A MAN LE or M, possibly a Mercedes AK/SK or early Axor, but I just couldn’t get one (with less than 300km), plus the cost of the older trucks tripled in price.
So, in the end, I decided on the TGM. We've already spent £8k on sorting it mechanically, which grates, but hopefully we're there.
Good luck with the search 🙏
Loving the progress guys and the truck looks stunning. So much planning and work and pretty inspiring what can be achieved. My truck envy is barely under control however the question is what truck horns are you fitting? Dave
😂😂 cheers Dave, appreciate the feedback.
In all honestly, it's all-consuming and I have to admit that although I'm enjoying the build process, I'm looking forward to completion and having a brerak 🙏😀
looking great guys, Just wondering about your water pipes, what blue and red pipes are you using, looks like your using 15mm speedfit fittings and some white normal pipe, but is the red and blue 15mm and is it the more flexible stuff compared to the white ?
Hi guys, thank you.
The red, blue and white pipes are all 15mm JG as are most of the fittings.
The clear reinforced hose came from Germany.
The JG pipe isn’t that flexible, it’s ok but if you’re looking for a flexible high quality, food safe, high pressure hose check out a German company called Lilie.
Not sure what size you’re after, you can source the red & blue 12.5mm hose pretty easily in the UK.
Hope that’s of help 👍😊
@@TheGapDecaders didn’t realise they did the pipe in red and blue in 15mm now, I’ve always used the 15 household stuff (white) as it’s so much cheaper and easier to get than the camper specific 12mm stuff, but it’s allot more flexible than the normal white stuff,
Thanks for getting back to me 👍
@@truebluetravellers As you say, the white pipe is cheap and easy to get - I just used red and blue collet clips on the JG fittings. I even used the white piping for the hydronic lines to the towel rail heaters, as the piping is ethyl glycol resistant.
Hey there :) Great vid! Do i get it right that you want to put a tyre casing with rim up on the Cabin? Because on the pictures you were showing us with the diffrent other ev`s they were only puting the tyre casing without a rim up there as a second or sometimes only replacement. You alwase have to put the tyre casing on the rim if there is the need to change tyres.... Puting the whole spare wheel up there is too heavy for the cab suspension etc... German MAN specialists Toni Maurer and KLA Trucks wont reccomend you that as well and in the german social media communities or online forums there are some ppl writing about that topic and mistakes they made...
Hello and thank you for taking the time to comment.
The illustrations were to try and demonstrate the different thinking in terms of options with the spare wheel or bike lift combo.
I've been doing a lot of research since then, both in terms of legislation and understanding the vehicle specific limitations.
I've also had the axles weighed and have decided to change the design, I'll explain more in a future video but really appreciate your thoughts. 🙏☺
Hi Phil, Have been following for a while and congratulation on how the build is going. I am off to Africa next year in my truck and i notice that the bike / tyre combination means you only have one spare. Is this something you have been comfortable on your many journey’s?
Hi Mike,
Thank you, the original "original plan" was to have a complete spare (with rim) on the rear with the bike and an additional tyre on the cab roof.
However, we'd only carry the spare tyre (on the cab) when venturing further, such as Africa, the Americas or the Stans.
That said, after a huge amount of vehicle specific research, legislative delving and weighing the axles... it's all change with the bike spare/bike.
I'll explain more in a future video.
Cheers Phil
👍😎
Cheers Rob 🙏
Just get a smaller bike - A Honda monkey perhaps 🤔
We used to carry a Honda PCX which was brilliant and very lightweight, but we want to off-road two up where the truck is too large - not sure a money would cut that :)
Was it deliberately designed to look like a prison van?