In Luke's defense everyone else has skeletons in their closets not to mention the party really didn't tell luke everything and kept info from luke as well, plus van was literally the only one luke could realistically trust at the time. Plus the blatant hypocrisy from the party is so bad that if anyone brought it up to them they couldn't say a word. Not to mention its easy for the party to hide behind their shortcomings whilest blaming luke for his, hence the hypocrisy.
Specifically Anise whose been betraying the group from the start, Guy who knew of Van's true character and never told Luke, and Tear also knew about Van but kept quite.
Heroes don't get loved, neither to Villians even tho they are the ones people use as a crutch. THE SAIVORS of the world are hated, for he suffered nothing and was pure hearted from the begnning, so they put all their blame onto him. Angra Mainyu.
the exception would be jade and his reaction is the most genuine of all. he never really hid his shortcoming when he got confronted about it . he fully admits his fault and make amends with his actions, he is not lamenting on his fate. wich is why jade don't like how luke is acting . i think he understands he was being manipulated, but the fact IS that it's all his fault and thinks luke should man up and face the music and tries to work toward making amends in the future. wich is why he respects luke more and more as the game progresses after luke's resolution
I don't think they're upset because of his actions, but instead the fact that he's refusing to take responsibility for them and almost refusing to accept that they were wrong in the first place. It almost sounds like he'd do it again if a similar situation happen
I feel sorry for Luke here, he knew nothing and trusted in the wrong person because they were the only one they treated him nicely. If someone I trusted told me I could do something to help people and no one told me not to trust him fully, I trust them. Everyone knew what Van was like, and some knew Luke was a clone, so they were to blame more than Luke. Why treat him this bad when Luke was only trusting someone he knew for a long time and no one told him otherwise?
This scene was always hard for me to sit through. It taps into my anxiety that I might screw up so badly or so many times that my friends and family will turn their backs on me forever.
*WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS FOR TALES OF THE ABYSS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED* What makes it worse is that Luke is technically only 7 years old. imagine being a 7 year old kid and shouldering the burden of that many deaths.
It's his own fault for nuking an entire town and not thinking of the repercussions. @@erickreyes7902Asch should've been the protagonist, because Luke is so insufferable
Can we just appreciate how Mieu does his best to comfort Luke? Since caused a fire that killed his own kin, so he knows the same feeling. Luke may have treat Mieu poorly, but after this, Luke can't help but be humbled. SPOILERS From one sinful child to another. It's honestly really cute that they started bonding after.
I don’t understand this comment section. The party is mad at Luke for making the tragedy all about him, not that he caused it. Nobody seemed upset when they realized he was tricked, only when he started ranting that it isn’t his fault.
I can't speak for everyone in this comment section but I know from myself, several friends and some old message boards/posts from those who have played this game that the party's anger towards Luke is hypocritical and unfair. Its seen as hypocritical mainly because almost everyone has skeletons in their closet and they don't have a counter argument for Luke trusting Van over them. As for why its unfair that involves spoilers for stuff that's revealed later that I don't know if you know and I wouldn't want to spoil. If you do know the rest of the story or just don't care about the spoilers I'll elaborate. though I will admit I have read a one or two comments that don't seem to have been paying attention to the story.
I get what the game was going for, but I always felt the way it did it was clumsily written. Yeah, Luke does hold part of responsibility and refuses to admit it, which makes it natural for the party to look down on him... But the way they do it makes it look like he was particularly at fault when in reality pretty much the whole party got played by the villain as well. Ion did the exact same thing Luke did: He trusted the wrong person and ended up facilitating the villain's plans by opening the door, and yet the others make it look like Ion is not at fault... but Luke sure is! By doing this it makes them look like hypocritical assholes who are trying to deflect the blame themselves.
Ion of all people should know why the door is sealed and he let Luke through anyway. Like bro did you actually asked him what business he has with the pillar of the world?
While I do agree with you, Luke was also being quite annoying before this. I do agree they were a little bit too heavy on him and they did not tell Luke about the replica, which everyone pretty much knew. But Ion 100% should know better. But I kinda like this scene, I always saw that everyone was tired and shocked, so they blamed on Luke, regardless of fairness.
Technically he is 7 years old (He is like 17 years old in the game). Asch was kidnapped at 10 years old, and found "Luke" by then. When he was first found he is like a baby, not knowing anything. Like JADE knows he is a replica, he knows that his clinginess to Van as a parental figure heck I think Guy knows to some extent. I kinda feel bad, though its like blaming a 7 year old for the death of millions and his initial reaction of killing people... I think he was misguided?
What infuriates me about this part is that while they blame Luke, they give Ion a pass even though he knew more about the situation and the disaster wouldn’t have happened if Ion hadn’t opened the door. So I watch this scene and scream “WHAT ABOUT ION?!”
In defense of the party, not a one of them does actually blame Luke until he starts yelling that nothing is his fault. Until then they are looking for explanations of what happened and how, and what to do about their situation. LUKE is first to assign blame, and Ion does accept his part in it instantly, without being prodded.
I feel you, but after what just happened anyone would be irritated, and Luke is having another tantrum, now of all times? Lad needs to sit down, although *everybody* needed a minute after that.
Accountability. Luke doesn’t take any. If he acknowledged what he did and was remorseful, I doubt any of them would be disgusted with him. Annoyed, saddened, regretful, possibly. But they wouldn’t have likely left him. Not only does he shirk it, he directs it to the very man who he basically worshiped and even eventually them once that doesn’t work.
@@rubrawolf I agree. They don’t really care to blame him. They want to find a solution, but they realize luke in this moment, is no help to them in anyway.
People defend Luke, but there was a lot that happened in the game leading up to this moment. He was consistently arrogant and conceited up to this point, even pushing around lesser characters to an extent - for most of the party, not being able to accept that he was responsible for Akzeriuth’s destruction was just the last straw.
True Luke was arrogant and Bratty but not any of them were grown up them condemning Luke is hypocritical considering one of them helped start the project leading up to this.
I am on the side of Luke's faults. It's an undeniable fact that because of him thousands of innocent people died even though he is not aware of his actions. Honestly, when I first playing at this phase of story, I stop playing. The main reason is, main character(Luke) is sucks. But after a couple of days when I doing my things on daily life, I am thinking, 'why this main character building is so different from all the tales series I have played so far?' then started thinking 'maybe that is what the author/developer wants?'. To make most players hate this MC. The next question in my mind is 'why?' After that I continue the story and found out the reason. The answer is 'Redemption' and 'Find the meaning of your own existence'. I am grateful finishing this game like all other tales series and not disappointed.
Although it fully isn’t Luke’s fault Luke was being really arrogant and insensitive about it so I can see why people lost faith in him although he got their trust back later on in the game
Isn't Ion also at fault here ? He knew about the pillars more than Luke , yet he didn't warn him that Van was deceiving him . It's been a long time since I played this game , but I remember this idea sticking with me because no one acknowledged Ion's part in all of this
@@GiordanDiodato but still they didn't acknowledge any of their part in it. They knew more than luke but didn't even try to tell him the basic necessities
@@GiordanDiodatoIon didn't know his plan, but he went along with Luke going to the passage ring despite knowing for sure the ring has nothing to do with evacuating Akzeriuth. Ion wasn't even a tiny bit suspicious about why Luke would want to go there.
You know that feeling when somebody tells you you’ve done something bad and say they’re disappointed in you. It’s terrifying because it makes me sound like a criminal which I’m not obviously but we all have done things we were regretful of. I had that happen to me once.
Luke was given a hint by Tear. Through, the skits ,before coming to the mining town. She said to The Replica to think things more on your own! Luke chose not to take the advice. . .
@Digidragon55 I mean, to be fair... you wouldn't take that advice if the person in question was your parent or mentor. A stranger, absolutely.... but not someone who has guided you for literally 7 years.
It, literally, isn't Luke's fault. Van mind-controlled Luke. You have the hypnotic-like messages Van implanted into Luke, Van somehow was able to use that hypnotic power to have Luke's own mind suppress the memory of the hypnotic implantation, and once Luke was using his hyperresonance Van's mind control prevented Luke from stopping. He wasn't a free agent making moral decisions.
@@StratosSamaa Exactly, the writing in this scene always bothered me because technically Luke is 7. Tear and Jade already knew he was replica, and Ion opened the gate for this to happen...
@@MahoBell-qf4rl Yeah this always bothered me when I was younger and was one of the reasons this was my second least favorite Tales game in my teens. Years later I did some research and learned that this writing was most likely inspired by how the Japanese perspective on responsibility and how his refusal to acknowledge having any role/responsibility in the events that happened are why they are mad at him as that's a bigger nono in Japan. Which is a similar sentiment expressed by many people in the comments though I don't know if they know about the Japanese perspective. However I still think it falls flat because as many people in the comments have pointed out, Luke is chronologically and essentially seven mentally but the game's writing seems to assume that because Luke is physically in his late teens that he should act more mature.
THANK YOU. Everyone forgets that countless people had just lost their lives and all Luke was thinking about was how to get himself out of trouble instead of facing the consequences of his actions. Everyone quickly comes back to him once he matures.
In Luke's defense everyone else has skeletons in their closets not to mention the party really didn't tell luke everything and kept info from luke as well, plus van was literally the only one luke could realistically trust at the time.
Plus the blatant hypocrisy from the party is so bad that if anyone brought it up to them they couldn't say a word. Not to mention its easy for the party to hide behind their shortcomings whilest blaming luke for his, hence the hypocrisy.
Specifically Anise whose been betraying the group from the start, Guy who knew of Van's true character and never told Luke, and Tear also knew about Van but kept quite.
Heroes don't get loved, neither to Villians even tho they are the ones people use as a crutch. THE SAIVORS of the world are hated, for he suffered nothing and was pure hearted from the begnning, so they put all their blame onto him. Angra Mainyu.
the exception would be jade and his reaction is the most genuine of all. he never really hid his shortcoming when he got confronted about it . he fully admits his fault and make amends with his actions, he is not lamenting on his fate. wich is why jade don't like how luke is acting . i think he understands he was being manipulated, but the fact IS that it's all his fault and thinks luke should man up and face the music and tries to work toward making amends in the future. wich is why he respects luke more and more as the game progresses after luke's resolution
I don't think they're upset because of his actions, but instead the fact that he's refusing to take responsibility for them and almost refusing to accept that they were wrong in the first place. It almost sounds like he'd do it again if a similar situation happen
I feel sorry for Luke here, he knew nothing and trusted in the wrong person because they were the only one they treated him nicely. If someone I trusted told me I could do something to help people and no one told me not to trust him fully, I trust them. Everyone knew what Van was like, and some knew Luke was a clone, so they were to blame more than Luke. Why treat him this bad when Luke was only trusting someone he knew for a long time and no one told him otherwise?
This scene was always hard for me to sit through. It taps into my anxiety that I might screw up so badly or so many times that my friends and family will turn their backs on me forever.
*WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS FOR TALES OF THE ABYSS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED*
What makes it worse is that Luke is technically only 7 years old. imagine being a 7 year old kid and shouldering the burden of that many deaths.
You’re NOT wrong.
Not gonna lie this scene was heavy... the fact that you dont know anything but people decides to blame you for everything...
It's his own fault for nuking an entire town and not thinking of the repercussions. @@erickreyes7902Asch should've been the protagonist, because Luke is so insufferable
@@davidtimmer596 ASCH would just be the cliche HERO that wants to stop the bad guys nothing new... LUKE made the story intresting and complex...
Can we just appreciate how Mieu does his best to comfort Luke?
Since caused a fire that killed his own kin, so he knows the same feeling. Luke may have treat Mieu poorly, but after this, Luke can't help but be humbled.
SPOILERS
From one sinful child to another. It's honestly really cute that they started bonding after.
I don’t understand this comment section. The party is mad at Luke for making the tragedy all about him, not that he caused it.
Nobody seemed upset when they realized he was tricked, only when he started ranting that it isn’t his fault.
I can't speak for everyone in this comment section but I know from myself, several friends and some old message boards/posts from those who have played this game that the party's anger towards Luke is hypocritical and unfair. Its seen as hypocritical mainly because almost everyone has skeletons in their closet and they don't have a counter argument for Luke trusting Van over them. As for why its unfair that involves spoilers for stuff that's revealed later that I don't know if you know and I wouldn't want to spoil. If you do know the rest of the story or just don't care about the spoilers I'll elaborate.
though I will admit I have read a one or two comments that don't seem to have been paying attention to the story.
I get what the game was going for, but I always felt the way it did it was clumsily written. Yeah, Luke does hold part of responsibility and refuses to admit it, which makes it natural for the party to look down on him... But the way they do it makes it look like he was particularly at fault when in reality pretty much the whole party got played by the villain as well. Ion did the exact same thing Luke did: He trusted the wrong person and ended up facilitating the villain's plans by opening the door, and yet the others make it look like Ion is not at fault... but Luke sure is! By doing this it makes them look like hypocritical assholes who are trying to deflect the blame themselves.
Ion of all people should know why the door is sealed and he let Luke through anyway. Like bro did you actually asked him what business he has with the pillar of the world?
While I do agree with you, Luke was also being quite annoying before this. I do agree they were a little bit too heavy on him and they did not tell Luke about the replica, which everyone pretty much knew. But Ion 100% should know better. But I kinda like this scene, I always saw that everyone was tired and shocked, so they blamed on Luke, regardless of fairness.
Technically he is 7 years old (He is like 17 years old in the game). Asch was kidnapped at 10 years old, and found "Luke" by then. When he was first found he is like a baby, not knowing anything. Like JADE knows he is a replica, he knows that his clinginess to Van as a parental figure heck I think Guy knows to some extent. I kinda feel bad, though its like blaming a 7 year old for the death of millions and his initial reaction of killing people... I think he was misguided?
What infuriates me about this part is that while they blame Luke, they give Ion a pass even though he knew more about the situation and the disaster wouldn’t have happened if Ion hadn’t opened the door. So I watch this scene and scream “WHAT ABOUT ION?!”
In defense of the party, not a one of them does actually blame Luke until he starts yelling that nothing is his fault. Until then they are looking for explanations of what happened and how, and what to do about their situation. LUKE is first to assign blame, and Ion does accept his part in it instantly, without being prodded.
I feel you, but after what just happened anyone would be irritated, and Luke is having another tantrum, now of all times? Lad needs to sit down, although *everybody* needed a minute after that.
Accountability. Luke doesn’t take any. If he acknowledged what he did and was remorseful, I doubt any of them would be disgusted with him. Annoyed, saddened, regretful, possibly. But they wouldn’t have likely left him. Not only does he shirk it, he directs it to the very man who he basically worshiped and even eventually them once that doesn’t work.
@@rubrawolf I agree. They don’t really care to blame him. They want to find a solution, but they realize luke in this moment, is no help to them in anyway.
People defend Luke, but there was a lot that happened in the game leading up to this moment. He was consistently arrogant and conceited up to this point, even pushing around lesser characters to an extent - for most of the party, not being able to accept that he was responsible for Akzeriuth’s destruction was just the last straw.
True Luke was arrogant and Bratty but not any of them were grown up them condemning Luke is hypocritical considering one of them helped start the project leading up to this.
I am on the side of Luke's faults. It's an undeniable fact that because of him thousands of innocent people died even though he is not aware of his actions.
Honestly, when I first playing at this phase of story, I stop playing. The main reason is, main character(Luke) is sucks.
But after a couple of days when I doing my things on daily life, I am thinking, 'why this main character building is so different from all the tales series I have played so far?' then started thinking 'maybe that is what the author/developer wants?'.
To make most players hate this MC. The next question in my mind is 'why?'
After that I continue the story and found out the reason.
The answer is 'Redemption' and 'Find the meaning of your own existence'. I am grateful finishing this game like all other tales series and not disappointed.
It really isn’t his fault ash could’ve spoken up tear could killed van like she plan so many people in the party could have stopped this
Although it fully isn’t Luke’s fault
Luke was being really arrogant and insensitive about it so I can see why people lost faith in him although he got their trust back later on in the game
In Luke’s defense he chronological a 7 year old child he didn’t really know much and he trusted Van since he grew up with him
@@EVERYWHERE_MAN And van was his hero He looked up to him more than his own father
@@mashu_sukotto yeah that’s why and his father never offer him much both Luke and Asch
I believe in him
everyone defending luke in the comments is CRAZYYYYY
God the undub patch that restores the voiced skits really enhance the experience
Isn't Ion also at fault here ? He knew about the pillars more than Luke , yet he didn't warn him that Van was deceiving him .
It's been a long time since I played this game , but I remember this idea sticking with me because no one acknowledged Ion's part in all of this
Ion probably didn't know Van's plan
@@GiordanDiodato but still they didn't acknowledge any of their part in it. They knew more than luke but didn't even try to tell him the basic necessities
@@GiordanDiodatoIon didn't know his plan, but he went along with Luke going to the passage ring despite knowing for sure the ring has nothing to do with evacuating Akzeriuth. Ion wasn't even a tiny bit suspicious about why Luke would want to go there.
Ion DID try to share blame in himself for his part in this but the party stopped him.
That's why he's not blamming luke
0:17 *One Winged Angel plays*
All I can think about is how Guy is the best bro in any Tales game. And being voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch just makes it all the better
You know that feeling when somebody tells you you’ve done something bad and say they’re disappointed in you. It’s terrifying because it makes me sound like a criminal which I’m not obviously but we all have done things we were regretful of. I had that happen to me once.
And also, Luke’s face is accurate to my (or anyone else’s) reaction whenever that happens.
Luke was right, y'know. It was not his fault. The real culprit was Van, since he talked him into it and Luke had no idea what he was doing.
Sean, don't make me think even less of you...
@@TsuNaruGuy is that you?😅
Luke was given a hint by Tear. Through, the skits ,before coming to the mining town. She said to The Replica to think things more on your own! Luke chose not to take the advice. . .
@Digidragon55 I mean, to be fair... you wouldn't take that advice if the person in question was your parent or mentor. A stranger, absolutely.... but not someone who has guided you for literally 7 years.
@@TsuNaru Your half right there. But, it’s easier to miss the small stuff. . .
do they apologize to Luke or something after they basically replaced him with Asch?
It, literally, isn't Luke's fault. Van mind-controlled Luke. You have the hypnotic-like messages Van implanted into Luke, Van somehow was able to use that hypnotic power to have Luke's own mind suppress the memory of the hypnotic implantation, and once Luke was using his hyperresonance Van's mind control prevented Luke from stopping.
He wasn't a free agent making moral decisions.
The party are a bunch of traitors except Tear and Natalia and yet they blame him
Why DOESN’T Luke refer to Asch at this bleak moment?
The god-general had the courtesy to warn the replica ,but Luke overtrusted Van.
Dear god this comment section.
THEY AREN'T MAD AT LUKE FOR WHAT HE DID, THEY'RE MAD AT HIM FOR MAKINH IT ALL ABOUT HIMSELF
I mean tbf, he is quite literally only mentally 7 years old, not to mention he knew jack shit about the outside world lmao
@@StratosSamaa Exactly, the writing in this scene always bothered me because technically Luke is 7. Tear and Jade already knew he was replica, and Ion opened the gate for this to happen...
@@MahoBell-qf4rl Yeah this always bothered me when I was younger and was one of the reasons this was my second least favorite Tales game in my teens. Years later I did some research and learned that this writing was most likely inspired by how the Japanese perspective on responsibility and how his refusal to acknowledge having any role/responsibility in the events that happened are why they are mad at him as that's a bigger nono in Japan. Which is a similar sentiment expressed by many people in the comments though I don't know if they know about the Japanese perspective. However I still think it falls flat because as many people in the comments have pointed out, Luke is chronologically and essentially seven mentally but the game's writing seems to assume that because Luke is physically in his late teens that he should act more mature.
THANK YOU. Everyone forgets that countless people had just lost their lives and all Luke was thinking about was how to get himself out of trouble instead of facing the consequences of his actions. Everyone quickly comes back to him once he matures.
Cool