Well actually, Beethoven would not have agreed to change the finale had he believed the fugue was fit for a finale. Although, he was slightly mad about such a remark, Beethoven is known for his stubborn attitude and if he truly believed the fugue was in it's rightful place, he would have dismissed such requests.
I used to present touring artists and attractions at a midwestern university that had begun life as a cow college. Each year I included a string ensemble in the series and remember how the agent of the quartet I'd chosen one year reacted when I asked if the ensemble would end an all-Beethoven program with Op.130 and the Grosse Fuge. She said they'd be glad to, but what about about my audience. I replied that students came to college not for a diet of pablum but to learn that they should treat music mutatis mutandis as Francis Bacon said of books: Some [compositions] should be tasted, some devoured, but only a few should be chewed and digested thoroughly. Beethoven was good for them, and the Grosse Fuge was the sort of nourishment that was essential for the development of their minds and souls. In the event, all but a few of the 500 seats in the hall were filled -- slightly less than half were students, who, btw, were not required to attend. To judge from the applause, the students had been blown away by what they'd heard. They'd found out that Schroeder was onto something. The Quatuor Ebène are also onto something. Superb performance. Many thanks.
To end this warm and lovely, peaceful quartet with op 133 feels somewhat destructive to me. The new Finale with its cheerful catchy tunes closes the circle in a perfect way, and extremely tasteful, btw. But, then, afterwards to continue with op 133, which through quotes from the former movements is indeed clearly related to op 130, would be highly appreciable to me.
I'm not a musician so I don't know the words for what happens here at 43.41 and then really starts at 44.15. The tune is ugly, awkward, unappealing, and not really a tune at all. It's like someone has the power to kick a mountain of granite rubble off a cliff and make something simply huge out of the ensuing earthquake. I make no pretensions to understand the man or the music. What starts deep underground as the cello opens the climactic madness around 44.15 is the closest my imagination can get to simultaneous terror, power, serenity, beauty, and frenetic chaos - all of the pointless-trying-to-express gutlings that are there but hopelessly frustrated by our inadequacy of language. You either feel it or you don't. If you're not obsessed by it then listen, and listen to every grunt and scrape against scrape until you're exhausted. It is here. This is the closest you can come to express in noise, all that defeats the thought-language of words, the absurdly beautiful enormity of it all held together by the thinnest human hair. The Lindsays did it for me in 1981, I can't imagine the technical skill needed to play this, and this quartet is young enough to play it without collapsing from psychological and physical exhaustion.
0:10 Adagio ma non troppo - Allegro 13:44 Presto 16:00 Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando 23:10 Alla danza tedesca. Allegro assai 26:48 Cavatina. Adagio molto espressivo 35:42 Grande Fugue (long pauses between movements)
The spare, elongated chamber music of late Beethoven is the key to the composer's "spiritual development" so capably outlined by historian J.W.N. Sullivan. Sullivan wisely steers clear of the cumbersome "Missa Solemnis" and "9th Symphony" in trying to locate Beethoven's elusive spiritual center. The Opus 130 snugly fits this category.
It is really good to hear (and see) this quartet with its original fugue especially played like this. And the camera angle is/was perfect allowing total focus on the performance. Gripping and poetic from start to finish. Much enjoyed.
I especially liked the contrast between the first violin's intense vibrato (e.g. at 27:15) and the other strings' hushed vibratos, creating a keen emotional excitement that I don't hear in other versions of this Beethoven quartet.
Forma parte de los cinco "Cuartetos Tardíos" compuestos por el genial maestro Ludwig van Beethoven al final de su vida teniendo graves problemas de salud. La excelente interpretación de esta obra por el prestigioso Cuarteto Ebène respeta su formato original conteniendo la Gran Fuga como último movimiento. BRAVO !!! Saludos desde España.
This is how the quartet should sound! The great fugue is inevitable to conclude this quartet. Great playing and very interesting musical expressions. I love 31:30 and following. A minor thing: I don't like the stomping in the fugue. But if anywhere in classical music, this is the place to stomp with the foot. ;)
"Karl Holz, Beethoven's secretary, confidant and second violinist of the Schuppanzigh Quartet that first performed the work, brought Beethoven the news that the audience had demanded encores of two middle movements. Beethoven, enraged, was reported to have growled, 'And why didn't they encore the Fugue? That alone should have been repeated! Cattle! Asses!'"--Wikipedia
Grand merci a vous d être à la hauteur de l immense ruissellement mélodique de l andante , beaucoup le jouent trop vite et en en escamotant les innombrables nuances et détails .
Beethoven's quartet is still new to me. I agree with the other comment, fixed camera angle makes easy for me follow each instrument. I personally like revised ending to Grosse Fuge simply because I first heard with it. Still, this is what Maestro intended first and I should get used to this.
Well said! 👏 "This is what Beethoven intended" - that's what my truly hard-core, Beethoven-obsessed friends feel. Generally speaking, every time a composer is talked into making a drastic change to a work by well-meaning people, it doesn't improve it. 🐧
Am I the only one who finds the 'Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando' movement to be a perfect example of "intoxicated Beethoven"? I can't help but relate the musical arc to the happy reprieve, disorientation, clumsiness and self-admonition of drunkenness. These types of happy-ish, lilting, somewhat rhythmically off-kilter movements show up in his middle and late period works and give me a smile.
Magnifique interprétation du Quatuor Ébène, qui chante lorsqu'il faut que ça chante, qui grince lorsqu'il faut que ça grince. Où l'on se convainc que la Grande Fugue est bien à sa place à la fin de cette oeuvre sublime qu'est l'opus 130 de Beethoven.
Sublime,si vous voulez,mais surtout provocatrice ,irritante, subversive,non? Ne devrait on pas garder le mot sublime pour l op 131 et le lento de l op 135 ?
@@olivierdrouin2701 Disons, pour éviter la querelle de mots, qu'écouter la grande fugue en se disant qu'elle a été composée en 1825 donne une sorte de vertige historique, je trouve.
The Quatuor Ebene knows when to expressively NOT use vibrato, and when to use it expressively. Furthermore, I found every moment of this performance committed, and not one phrase lacking in interest. It would be nice to hear them play the replacement movement occasionally.
@johncerella2127 5 年前（編集済み） 0:10 Adagio ma non troppo - Allegro 13:44 Presto 16:00 Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando 23:10 Alla danza tedesca. Allegro assai 26:48 Cavatina. Adagio molto espressivo 35:42 Grande Fugue (long pauses between movements)
To finally hear this without the relatively saccharine replacement movement is a relief. The replacement movement is beyond simple with predictable payoffs and I wouldn't be surprised if Beethoven was a little tongue in cheek with it ("you want something nice? Here you go lol") It's good of course, the replacement, but pedestrian by contrast. I love how these comments are so polarized!! Passion. But 21st c. huh...
That sounds like a reasonable theory on the replacement music. Beethoven may also have thought that in the future some quartet would have been capable of playing the whole piece as originally intended.
Opus 133 (ab 35:30) - sehr präzise gespielt. Von Beginn an wird hier nichts abgemildert, geglättet, erleichtert. Eine ganz harte moderne Auffassung dieser reinen Musik. Bei jedem erneuten Hören mehr Bewunderung für den Mut der Musiker und ihre intellektuelle Deutlichkeit. Beethoven als Person, wie man ihn sich vorstellen kann, wird erschreckend sichtbar und beschämt uns. Es ist fast zu viel.
es war sicher zuviel für die hörgewohnheiten der zeitgenossen beethovens . dieses opus dürfte für die menschen damals ähnlich verstörend gewirkt haben wie strawinsky`s sacre zu beginn des 20 jh`s . notabene : graaaandios gespielt !!!!!
diese ansicht teile ich nicht - eigentlich ist nichts beschämend daran, zu viel , oder beinahe zu viel finde ich es auch nicht. man muss sich nur vor augen halten, dass beethoven dies bereits rund 85 jahre vor dem einsetzen der neuen musik geschrieben hat. welch radikale vorausschau das doch darstellt, ist absolut verblüffend und erfüllt mich mit geradezu grenzenloser bewunderung. aber: interpretiert sehen wir hier das stück wirklich hervorragend und beispielhaft.
Great performance. For me, this quartet "works" best when the Fugue is played as the finale. Beethoven intended the fugue as the finale and that's why, I think, he wrote a six-movement work. He understood that a quartet in the standard four movements would crush the scherzo and cavatina between far larger opening and closing movements, so he padded things with two additional movements. The large opening movement and the monumental fugue effectively "bookend" the suite of smaller movements between. them. If you play the new finale of November 1826 at the end, you have that imposing opening movement followed by a string of smaller pieces. As a result, the quartet seems top-heavy and lopsided. Beethoven's original conception was correct - to alter it because his contemporaries were too dim to perceive the composer's vision - and because the publisher was more interested in commerce than art - compromises one of Beethoven's greatest quartets.
Chaque mouvement semble nier celui qui le précède L impatience frivole du 2 l euphorie cérébrale du 1 La simplicite sans arrière pensée du ,4 la décantation raffinée du 3 Le combat pour sortir de soi du 6 l introspection du 5 A partir de la,peut être le problème du bon finale perd t il un peu de sa gravité ?
Why doesn't some kind soul present quartet players with music stands that are *three* sheets wide? So often you see players having to lean slightly to see the music on the third open sheet, which has gradually collapsed behind the stand.
I concur that the Great Fugue is better played separately, it is too harsh after this Cavatina. And while at it I prefer its intepretation by the Alban Berg Quartett performance that is on this platform. It is somehow more listenable, this version here is a bit too aggressive and unnerving. And BTW, there is a very interesting transcription for organ by Martin Sturm _(on the channel presently called "derorganist")_ which I recommend for educational purposes.
First of all - I do not intentionally want to distract from what a great performance this is from the Quartet Ebane - which I very much enjoyed and am grateful for. But secondly - I do think that this performance underlines why The Grosse Fugue (the original finale) was replaced by Beethoven and should (in general) not be performed in this quartet. In this sense, Quartet Ebane have done a significant academic service! Why? 1) Firstly I am a huge fan of the Gross Fugue - and find it one of the most dominant movements in all of classical music. But the wonderfully sprawling Fugue (itself in five distinct sections) expunges all that goes before it and dominates my mind for hours after hearing it. This is both a tribute to this movement, and the highlight of it's problem in being a finale - it unintentionally kills the preceding movements. The Grosse Fugue is well-named having a significant introduction, three major and contrasting fugal sections of immense creativity and a substantial coda - the intwined complexities between all five of these sections are - in many senses - more material than a complete concert programme of several string quartets might bear. 2) The Cavatina (the fifth moment) is one of the most profound utterations ever notated by a composer. Beethoven himself commented: "never had his own music made such an impression on him". For this profound utterence to be accidentally trumpled over by the Gross Fugue is surely a judgement error? Beethoven seemed to think so. 3) The Gross Fugue is made greater by being separated (by Beethoven himself) into a stand-alone work. It fully deserves this focus. 4) The replacement finale (missing from this performance) is not (in my opinion) an inferior replacement - instead it is an acutely judged and well-balanced finale of delicacy & subtlety that compliment the preceding movements in a highly satisfying way. The only reason I can see to resurrect the original Gross Fugue finale is if we all believed this is the only way the Gross Fugue would get performed - and yet history has shown us this is not necessary. Still - everyone has their own opinion, and I know some prefer this "original" version no matter how much it is against the author's (Beethoven's) affirmed intentions. My counter will always be: serve the Cavatina and you will truly serve this quartet - there lies it's true heart.
Extraordinarios los últimos cuartetos de Beethoven! Pero que asco l publicidad que intercala RUclips, es una blasfemia para la música, nunca más lo vuelvo a escuchar.
bravissimo, just transcendent, full stop. But a postscript unbidden apropos la technique-- putting tennis balls on the end of those bows will preserve the safety of those musicians for years to come.
It seems politically correct (if that is the word) often today to perform this work with its original finale of the Great Fugue. But Beethoven was OK with the alternate finale in the official published version (he didn't have to do that). So Fugal purists shouldn't stick up their nose at the published finale - certainly a lighter piece than the fugue but still a high work of art.
Indeed, some days you can prefer the fugue, sometimes the allegro. Two different solutions to dispelling the poignant melancholia of the preceding cavatina. Life goes on whether through the impersonal willpower of the fugue or letting sheer happiness (the allegro) have the last say.
No, "politically correct" isn't a word. (It is two words.) And political correctness has nothing to do with why this has happened. The fugue was too far ahead of it's time to be widely appreciated when written. Finally, there are enough people around who can appreciate it's stunning genius. If anything, the fugue was rejected for not being politically correct. I suppose we can thank political correctness for compelling Beethoven to write the allegro. For me the fugue is the most realistically hopeful music ever written. The world is full of pain, and in my advanced years, Beethoven's earlier triumphal endings (say Symphony #5 or Piano Concerto #4) are disengenuos. I loved #5 in my teens, but alas, the death of a daughter, a long and crushing divorce, among other things... The fugue is probably the biggest healing force to help me embrace my new life following a series of groundless allegations including violence, and the sexual abuse of my other daughter. Beethoven's later works are simply coming to terms with the reality that we all end up dead. The simple triumphs of earlier years are do not constitute an ending in any ultimate sense.
Yes, you can just delete the adjective political. Nevertheless I am kind of glad that Beethoven in essence blessed two different versions of this quartet.
I d strongly recommend the Lindsay Quartet s Op.130 for sheer ensemble unity of purpose. Ebene here are good but for me lack the Lindsay s greater depth of feeling.
The fugue was a miscalculation. Beethoven probably knew this, because he wrote another finale - the last music he wrote, and had the fugue published separately. The fugue is being played so frequently now as the original finale that the replacement movement is not heard as much. It should be, because it is wonderful music.
Beethoven changed the end because of performing difficulty for players then and publisher's request. It got him more money too with the fugue published separately.
@@starrynight1657 I don't think that's the only reason B wrote an alternative finale.. Although it relates thematically to other parts of the quartet, the original finale outweighs the rest of the quartet. Beethoven proved that he was a questionable contrapuntalist, especially after his deafness. His finale to the 5th Cello Sonata, the finally of the Piano Sonata no. 29, and the Grosse Fugue represent him at his most uncompromising and least gratifying to play. And might I say, ugly.
@@muslit I like the Grosse Fugue the most of those. You can compare the intense ending to op131. If anything it balances the first movement, with the unisons. And after the emotional breakdown of the cavatina it seeks to fuse various moods. It takes a lot to reconcile all that went before.
J ai souvent essayé d entendre le finale mais au bout d un certain temps, son côté haydnien me revolte,comme dans l op 135. Y a t il aujourd hui des gens qui supportent Haydn ?
I count myself lucky to live in the era when the Great Fugue has been restored to its rightful place as the finale of this work.
Well actually, Beethoven would not have agreed to change the finale had he believed the fugue was fit for a finale. Although, he was slightly mad about such a remark, Beethoven is known for his stubborn attitude and if he truly believed the fugue was in it's rightful place, he would have dismissed such requests.
I used to present touring artists and attractions at a midwestern university that had begun life as a cow college. Each year I included a string ensemble in the series and remember how the agent of the quartet I'd chosen one year reacted when I asked if the ensemble would end an all-Beethoven program with Op.130 and the Grosse Fuge. She said they'd be glad to, but what about about my audience. I replied that students came to college not for a diet of pablum but to learn that they should treat music mutatis mutandis as Francis Bacon said of books: Some [compositions] should be tasted, some devoured, but only a few should be chewed and digested thoroughly. Beethoven was good for them, and the Grosse Fuge was the sort of nourishment that was essential for the development of their minds and souls.
In the event, all but a few of the 500 seats in the hall were filled -- slightly less than half were students, who, btw, were not required to attend. To judge from the applause, the students had been blown away by what they'd heard. They'd found out that Schroeder was onto something.
The Quatuor Ebène are also onto something. Superb performance. Many thanks.
It might be rightful, but it doesn't work.
To end this warm and lovely, peaceful quartet with op 133 feels somewhat destructive to me. The new Finale with its cheerful catchy tunes closes the circle in a perfect way, and extremely tasteful, btw. But, then, afterwards to continue with op 133, which through quotes from the former movements is indeed clearly related to op 130, would be highly appreciable to me.
How about doing that, but then playing the rondo finale as an encore? Seems a shame not to play Beethoven's last work!
The magnificent Grosse fugue is finally in its proper place. Thank you for these superb performances by the Ebene Quartet.
In classical music, there are those who know Beethoven's Late Quartets, and the poor deprived souls who don't. Love Quatuor Ebene.
I'm not a musician so I don't know the words for what happens here at 43.41 and then really starts at 44.15. The tune is ugly, awkward, unappealing, and not really a tune at all. It's like someone has the power to kick a mountain of granite rubble off a cliff and make something simply huge out of the ensuing earthquake. I make no pretensions to understand the man or the music. What starts deep underground as the cello opens the climactic madness around 44.15 is the closest my imagination can get to simultaneous terror, power, serenity, beauty, and frenetic chaos - all of the pointless-trying-to-express gutlings that are there but hopelessly frustrated by our inadequacy of language. You either feel it or you don't. If you're not obsessed by it then listen, and listen to every grunt and scrape against scrape until you're exhausted. It is here. This is the closest you can come to express in noise, all that defeats the thought-language of words, the absurdly beautiful enormity of it all held together by the thinnest human hair. The Lindsays did it for me in 1981, I can't imagine the technical skill needed to play this, and this quartet is young enough to play it without collapsing from psychological and physical exhaustion.
Musica divina ! La cavatina ti fa vibrare le corde piu' intime dell'anima.E' una preghiera,una implorazione a cui Dio non puo' non rispondere!
I like the stationary camera -- it allows you to follow the four parts as they're played; just like reading a score!
Completely agree! The Quator Ebène are lucky, often finding a camera man/woman without any ambition to play the fifth part.
Agreed. It allows you to see and enjoy the astonishing complexity of some of this music
Not to mention it’s what you’d see if you were actually there
@@pimogens ⅗1
Excellent point!
0:10 Adagio ma non troppo - Allegro
13:44 Presto
16:00 Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando
23:10 Alla danza tedesca. Allegro assai
26:48 Cavatina. Adagio molto espressivo
35:42 Grande Fugue
(long pauses between movements)
III. ...Poco scherzoso, not scherzando.
thank you very very much, friend.
The silence between Cavatina and Grosse Fugue is the heaviest silence i've ever felt.
How kind. I send you heartfelt thanks🙏!
I love the way the Ebene take the music by the scruff of the neck and play without compromise or inhibition. They are a truly a great quartet.
The spare, elongated chamber music of late Beethoven is the key to the composer's "spiritual development" so capably outlined by historian J.W.N. Sullivan. Sullivan wisely steers clear of the cumbersome "Missa Solemnis" and "9th Symphony" in trying to locate Beethoven's elusive spiritual center. The Opus 130 snugly fits this category.
What a wonderfull interpretation of this masterpiece. I had tears in my eyes
I wish I could give it a million thumbs up! Thankyou.
It is really good to hear (and see) this quartet with its original fugue especially played like this. And the camera angle is/was perfect allowing total focus on the performance. Gripping and poetic from start to finish. Much enjoyed.
Implacable, minéral et tellement touchant, c'est du Beethoven!
I especially liked the contrast between the first violin's intense vibrato (e.g. at 27:15) and the other strings' hushed vibratos, creating a keen emotional excitement that I don't hear in other versions of this Beethoven quartet.
Wonderful Beethoven Quator Ébène!
Wunderbar, immer wieder! Danke!
Forma parte de los cinco "Cuartetos Tardíos" compuestos por el genial maestro Ludwig van Beethoven al final de su vida teniendo graves problemas de salud. La excelente interpretación de esta obra por el prestigioso Cuarteto Ebène respeta su formato original conteniendo la Gran Fuga como último movimiento. BRAVO !!! Saludos desde España.
This is how the quartet should sound! The great fugue is inevitable to conclude this quartet. Great playing and very interesting musical expressions. I love 31:30 and following. A minor thing: I don't like the stomping in the fugue. But if anywhere in classical music, this is the place to stomp with the foot. ;)
BRAVO ! ... it was GREAT , the PERFOMANCE . FLAWLESS .
"Karl Holz, Beethoven's secretary, confidant and second violinist of the Schuppanzigh Quartet that first performed the work, brought Beethoven the news that the audience had demanded encores of two middle movements. Beethoven, enraged, was reported to have growled, 'And why didn't they encore the Fugue? That alone should have been repeated! Cattle! Asses!'"--Wikipedia
Tears in the first minute...
Lovely work, lovely sound. Thank you.
Grand merci a vous d être à la hauteur de l immense ruissellement mélodique de l andante , beaucoup le jouent trop vite et en en escamotant les innombrables nuances et détails .
What joy to watch and listen!
Muchas gracias. Oír la música que compuse en mi vida anterior me reconforta cuando estoy librando una Gran Fuga. 14-9-2021
Beethoven's quartet is still new to me. I agree with the other comment, fixed camera angle makes easy for me follow each instrument. I personally like revised ending to Grosse Fuge simply because I first heard with it. Still, this is what Maestro intended first and I should get used to this.
Well said! 👏 "This is what Beethoven intended" - that's what my truly hard-core, Beethoven-obsessed friends feel. Generally speaking, every time a composer is talked into making a drastic change to a work by well-meaning people, it doesn't improve it. 🐧
Am I the only one who finds the 'Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando' movement to be a perfect example of "intoxicated Beethoven"? I can't help but relate the musical arc to the happy reprieve, disorientation, clumsiness and self-admonition of drunkenness. These types of happy-ish, lilting, somewhat rhythmically off-kilter movements show up in his middle and late period works and give me a smile.
love this piece！what an amazing presentation also！thanks for sharing❤
Agree with many comments, from this performance, it is totally reasonable to have grosse fuge as final mv.
Que hermosa y maravillosa interpretación.
Felicitaciones
SCHITTEREND....many thanks !!!!!!!!
Magnifique interprétation du Quatuor Ébène, qui chante lorsqu'il faut que ça chante, qui grince lorsqu'il faut que ça grince. Où l'on se convainc que la Grande Fugue est bien à sa place à la fin de cette oeuvre sublime qu'est l'opus 130 de Beethoven.
Francois Brousseau vous avez raison!
Sublime,si vous voulez,mais surtout provocatrice ,irritante, subversive,non?
Ne devrait on pas garder le mot sublime pour l op 131 et le lento de l op 135 ?
@@olivierdrouin2701 Disons, pour éviter la querelle de mots, qu'écouter la grande fugue en se disant qu'elle a été composée en 1825 donne une sorte de vertige historique, je trouve.
An excellent interpretation of Beethoven's String quartet Op. 130 with the Fuge. Das Zusammwnspiel! did Quatuor Ebène.
-- Belle entente dans ce grand quatuor de Beethoven. --
classieux !!!
bravo à tous !!
Absolument magnifique, merci .C'a déchire.
Magnifique. Merci :)
Bravissimi!!!!
CHAPOLAS!! TOPISSIMO!!
Great!!!!!!
The Quatuor Ebene knows when to expressively NOT use vibrato, and when to use it expressively. Furthermore, I found every moment of this performance committed, and not one phrase lacking in interest. It would be nice to hear them play the replacement movement occasionally.
The Grosse Fugue starts at 35:45.
im not crying, you're crying
@johncerella2127
5 年前（編集済み）
0:10 Adagio ma non troppo - Allegro
13:44 Presto
16:00 Andante con moto, ma non troppo. Poco scherzando
23:10 Alla danza tedesca. Allegro assai
26:48 Cavatina. Adagio molto espressivo
35:42 Grande Fugue
(long pauses between movements)
Forever!!! ❗❤😁😁😁😁👍
26:40 Cavatine
To finally hear this without the relatively saccharine replacement movement is a relief. The replacement movement is beyond simple with predictable payoffs and I wouldn't be surprised if Beethoven was a little tongue in cheek with it ("you want something nice? Here you go lol") It's good of course, the replacement, but pedestrian by contrast. I love how these comments are so polarized!! Passion. But 21st c. huh...
That sounds like a reasonable theory on the replacement music.
Beethoven may also have thought that in the future some quartet would have been capable of playing the whole piece as originally intended.
They're very... vigorous with that fugue.
I mean, not complaining. It's not my personal favourite way of hearing it, but it works.
The fugue is one of those things for me that interpretation either makes or breaks the piece
Opus 133 (ab 35:30) - sehr präzise gespielt. Von Beginn an wird hier nichts abgemildert, geglättet, erleichtert. Eine ganz harte moderne Auffassung dieser reinen Musik. Bei jedem erneuten Hören mehr Bewunderung für den Mut der Musiker und ihre intellektuelle Deutlichkeit. Beethoven als Person, wie man ihn sich vorstellen kann, wird erschreckend sichtbar und beschämt uns. Es ist fast zu viel.
es war sicher zuviel für die hörgewohnheiten der zeitgenossen beethovens . dieses opus dürfte
für die menschen damals ähnlich verstörend gewirkt haben wie strawinsky`s sacre zu beginn des
20 jh`s . notabene : graaaandios gespielt !!!!!
Arnold Schönberg sagte, dass er die Große Fuge jederzeit als sein Werk ausgeben könnte, wenn man es nicht anders wüsste.
diese ansicht teile ich nicht - eigentlich ist nichts beschämend daran, zu viel , oder beinahe zu viel finde ich es auch nicht. man muss sich nur vor augen halten, dass beethoven dies bereits rund 85 jahre vor dem einsetzen der neuen musik geschrieben hat. welch radikale vorausschau das doch darstellt, ist absolut verblüffend und erfüllt mich mit geradezu grenzenloser bewunderung.
aber: interpretiert sehen wir hier das stück wirklich hervorragend und beispielhaft.
Hugo Wolf über die grosse Fuge: "Ein mir gänzlich unverständliches Tonstück" Auch das gab's!
@@ullrichherz7053 at Schoenberg’s time this comment makes sense. Now it seems only like the truly Beethovenian work with no compromises.
If nobody tells you this is a Beethoven opus, you would think you are hearing a S. XX music.
Great performance. For me, this quartet "works" best when the Fugue is played as the finale. Beethoven intended the fugue as the finale and that's why, I think, he wrote a six-movement work. He understood that a quartet in the standard four movements would crush the scherzo and cavatina between far larger opening and closing movements, so he padded things with two additional movements. The large opening movement and the monumental fugue effectively "bookend" the suite of smaller movements between. them.
If you play the new finale of November 1826 at the end, you have that imposing opening movement followed by a string of smaller pieces. As a result, the quartet seems top-heavy and lopsided.
Beethoven's original conception was correct - to alter it because his contemporaries were too dim to perceive the composer's vision - and because the publisher was more interested in commerce than art - compromises one of Beethoven's greatest quartets.
holy shit
Chaque mouvement semble nier celui qui le précède
L impatience frivole du 2 l euphorie cérébrale du 1
La simplicite sans arrière pensée du ,4 la décantation raffinée du 3
Le combat pour sortir de soi du 6 l introspection du 5
A partir de la,peut être le problème du bon finale perd t il un peu de sa gravité ?
So if I understand correctly, this is the op 130 Beethoven initially made, but was turned down by his publisher?
Why doesn't some kind soul present quartet players with music stands that are *three* sheets wide? So often you see players having to lean slightly to see the music on the third open sheet, which has gradually collapsed behind the stand.
Esto lo escribe su abuelo desde Caracas Venezuela
35:30
35:44
41:03
Tell me Pierre doesn't look like Seinfeld from the side
with john mcenroe sitting beside him...
I concur that the Great Fugue is better played separately, it is too harsh after this Cavatina. And while at it I prefer its intepretation by the Alban Berg Quartett performance that is on this platform. It is somehow more listenable, this version here is a bit too aggressive and unnerving. And BTW, there is a very interesting transcription for organ by Martin Sturm _(on the channel presently called "derorganist")_ which I recommend for educational purposes.
Its better with the fugue
First of all - I do not intentionally want to distract from what a great performance this is from the Quartet Ebane - which I very much enjoyed and am grateful for.
But secondly - I do think that this performance underlines why The Grosse Fugue (the original finale) was replaced by Beethoven and should (in general) not be performed in this quartet. In this sense, Quartet Ebane have done a significant academic service!
Why?
1) Firstly I am a huge fan of the Gross Fugue - and find it one of the most dominant movements in all of classical music. But the wonderfully sprawling Fugue (itself in five distinct sections) expunges all that goes before it and dominates my mind for hours after hearing it. This is both a tribute to this movement, and the highlight of it's problem in being a finale - it unintentionally kills the preceding movements. The Grosse Fugue is well-named having a significant introduction, three major and contrasting fugal sections of immense creativity and a substantial coda - the intwined complexities between all five of these sections are - in many senses - more material than a complete concert programme of several string quartets might bear.
2) The Cavatina (the fifth moment) is one of the most profound utterations ever notated by a composer. Beethoven himself commented: "never had his own music made such an impression on him". For this profound utterence to be accidentally trumpled over by the Gross Fugue is surely a judgement error? Beethoven seemed to think so.
3) The Gross Fugue is made greater by being separated (by Beethoven himself) into a stand-alone work. It fully deserves this focus.
4) The replacement finale (missing from this performance) is not (in my opinion) an inferior replacement - instead it is an acutely judged and well-balanced finale of delicacy & subtlety that compliment the preceding movements in a highly satisfying way.
The only reason I can see to resurrect the original Gross Fugue finale is if we all believed this is the only way the Gross Fugue would get performed - and yet history has shown us this is not necessary.
Still - everyone has their own opinion, and I know some prefer this "original" version no matter how much it is against the author's (Beethoven's) affirmed intentions. My counter will always be: serve the Cavatina and you will truly serve this quartet - there lies it's true heart.
Extraordinarios los últimos cuartetos de Beethoven!
Pero que asco l publicidad que intercala RUclips, es una blasfemia para la música, nunca más lo vuelvo a escuchar.
31:39
The way Pierre Colombet keeps tapping his foot as he fiddles: ruclips.net/video/3lNkCt1CDc0/видео.html
What if the first attack on Modernism comes here, in 1825?
Plaudite, amici, comedia finita est"
bravissimo, just transcendent, full stop. But a postscript unbidden apropos la technique-- putting tennis balls on the end of those bows will preserve the safety of those musicians for years to come.
It seems politically correct (if that is the word) often today to perform this work with its original finale of the Great Fugue. But Beethoven was OK with the alternate finale in the official published version (he didn't have to do that). So Fugal purists shouldn't stick up their nose at the published finale - certainly a lighter piece than the fugue but still a high work of art.
Both versions are ok.
Indeed, some days you can prefer the fugue, sometimes the allegro. Two different solutions to dispelling the poignant melancholia of the preceding cavatina. Life goes on whether through the impersonal willpower of the fugue or letting sheer happiness (the allegro) have the last say.
No, "politically correct" isn't a word. (It is two words.)
And political correctness has nothing to do with why this has happened. The fugue was too far ahead of it's time to be widely appreciated when written. Finally, there are enough people around who can appreciate it's stunning genius. If anything, the fugue was rejected for not being politically correct. I suppose we can thank political correctness for compelling Beethoven to write the allegro.
For me the fugue is the most realistically hopeful music ever written. The world is full of pain, and in my advanced years, Beethoven's earlier triumphal endings (say Symphony #5 or Piano Concerto #4) are disengenuos. I loved #5 in my teens, but alas, the death of a daughter, a long and crushing divorce, among other things... The fugue is probably the biggest healing force to help me embrace my new life following a series of groundless allegations including violence, and the sexual abuse of my other daughter.
Beethoven's later works are simply coming to terms with the reality that we all end up dead. The simple triumphs of earlier years are do not constitute an ending in any ultimate sense.
Yes, you can just delete the adjective political. Nevertheless I am kind of glad that Beethoven in essence blessed two different versions of this quartet.
Yes but why settle for a great finale when you can get a transcendental one ?
Ja, das Grosse Fugue ist mein größter Fehler. Erbarme dich, mein Gott, um meiner Zähren willen! - L van Beethoven.
I d strongly recommend the Lindsay Quartet s Op.130 for sheer ensemble unity of purpose. Ebene here are good but for me lack the Lindsay s greater depth of feeling.
The fugue was a miscalculation. Beethoven probably knew this, because he wrote another finale - the last music he wrote, and had the fugue published separately. The fugue is being played so frequently now as the original finale that the replacement movement is not heard as much. It should be, because it is wonderful music.
The fugue is the finale Beethoven wrote first. The other one has been reclaimed to Beethoven by editor and friends.
Beethoven changed the end because of performing difficulty for players then and publisher's request. It got him more money too with the fugue published separately.
@@starrynight1657 I don't think that's the only reason B wrote an alternative finale.. Although it relates thematically to other parts of the quartet, the original finale outweighs the rest of the quartet. Beethoven proved that he was a questionable contrapuntalist, especially after his deafness. His finale to the 5th Cello Sonata, the finally of the Piano Sonata no. 29, and the Grosse Fugue represent him at his most uncompromising and least gratifying to play. And might I say, ugly.
@@muslit I like the Grosse Fugue the most of those. You can compare the intense ending to op131. If anything it balances the first movement, with the unisons. And after the emotional breakdown of the cavatina it seeks to fuse various moods. It takes a lot to reconcile all that went before.
@@starrynight1657 I just don't agree.
J ai souvent essayé d entendre le finale mais au bout d un certain temps, son côté haydnien me revolte,comme dans l op 135.
Y a t il aujourd hui des gens qui supportent Haydn ?
Oui mais là, c'est le vrai finale... Pas très haydnien :)
Mais bien sure! Haydn est superbe et - alas - trop souvent mal estimé.
good performance; bad recirdubg
Great performance but I can't stand the mad great fugue.
But the Idea of end a work with madness is great
Music by the deaf, for the deaf.
stop coughing .. :(
Hätte ich klanglich mehr erwartet
An honest but blunt Beethovenian compliment; “Horrible”.. sorry, no offense.
losttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bad music!!!!
TF are you on?
Schreiben Sie etwas Besseres!
Nãji opeë jàao ???????
I prefer Alban Bert performance!!!
You mean the Alban Berg Quartett performance that is on this platform ? Had just listened to it and _then_ found your comment. And yes, I agree.