This is the first of my "endurance review" series, where i only review products that I have owned and used frequently for at least 5 years! Subscribe to see the next installments... boots, socks, backpack and mid layer!
I’ve had this liner for about five years now and though it doesn’t add no 25° to your bag, you might get 7/8. But what it does do is keep your dirty skin and oils off of your bag, especially if you have a down bag and it also alleviates cold spots when you move around at night. The fabric is very comfortable and very stretchy. Highly recommend.
I’ve had this liner for 5 years. Used it while staying at friends and once on an very warm backpack trip. Was not so keen on the extra weight so have not used for backpacking as an actual liner to my bag, but your review gave me an renewed interest in trying a product I already own.
I’ve been using this for 4 years now. I like it and I agree with you on all points. I did just invest in a Appalachian gear (alpaca wool) liner 16oz. Excited to see how it compares.
@@rubyrupin the app gear wool liner is very nice and warm. There are some downsides tho. The benefits to the alpaca wool is that it will still insulate when damp. Which I found helpful. The downside is weight and durability. I’ve only been using mine for a couple months and it already has a couple pin holes. Could be from moths but I think it’s just wear and tear. I have a app gear hoody however that I wear all the time and it still looks new. I have a 20 degree bag from feathered friends and I use the sea to summit ether light xt pad. It’s been a pretty good 4 season setup. I can add one of the liners or both with a thermarest z lite foam pad and sleep comfortable down to around 10 degrees F.
Good product. I suggest practice using it at home for a few nights to learn how to get in and out of it in the middle of the night. there is no side opening and you slide in from the top. the liner is very stretchy so it is able to move with you
I just purchased the sea to summit regular sleeping bag liner. Such a difference when I sleep now. I was looking at this one for winter camping to help add some warmth. Plus always like to keep my gear as clean as possible, hiking is dirty LOL
SkinnyGPanda yes especially if you have an expensive sleeping bag it’s totally worth it to have any kind of liner, but sure, this one is great for winter. Thanks for your comment!
If you're 5'6" / 170cm the sea to summit compact plus is a better choice than the extreme because there's no point carrying the extra weight of a liner longer than you need. The compact plus is not as warm as the extreme but it is still warm and the lighter fabric weight combined with the shorter length makes it 5 ounces lighter than the extreme (142 grams lighter). So the 9 ounce compact plus is defintely better than the 14 ounce extreme if you're 5'6" tall or shorter because of the weight savings and smaller volume in your pack. And it is possible some taller people might even want to forget about needing to use the hood on their liner and use the compact plus anyway. This liner is warmer than the basic sea to summit thermolite reactor but it has the same weight because of its shorter length. And a liner that offers additional warmth is definitely what you want because why bother buying a liner that doesn't give you this bonus however like this video says, the main reason for a liner is keeping your bag clean so carrying a 14oz liner instead of a 9oz liner isn't worth the extra pack weight when the difference in warmth between the extreme and the compact plus is not a good deal for the five ounce penalty.
Also the Western Mountaineering site's cleaning page doesn't mention liners and instead says a tee shirt, shorts and socks is as good as a sheet to prevent body oil and sweat etc from dirtying your down. I might still use a liner because I have dry skin and I like the extra warmth of my compact plus but if I learn that my dry skin isn't a real problem for the bag it will be difficult for me to keep the liner because it's actually only two degrees C of warmth added to the bag (for a 9oz penalty) which is still a lot of warmth so I don't know what I'll do. But the extreme liner is only an actual 3 C of warmth for a 14oz penalty which is pretty heavy for something that doesn't keep your bag any cleaner than a tee shirt, shorts and socks depending on your skin. And if you're sleeping in dusty pants and dusty jacket the liner is a must. Anyway it all depends what you're doing but if you have regular skin, don't sleep in dusty clothes, sleep in a shirt, shorts and socks and can manage without a couple degrees added to your warmth these liners are an unnecessary weight.
Also, I'm living on the trail so the idea of a liner is more practical than somebody just going out for a couple weeks who can simply wash their bag when they get home. It doesn't make sense to carry weight on your trip to avoid some housework when you get home.
If you are a woman and also think you run cold compared to your other female friends seriously go overboard on the sleeping bag warmth. I bought a sleeping bag rated to -11°C transition, -5°C women's comfort(yes I checked, it is rated using the EN standard). I knew I ran cold so I bought it even though I'll only be using it between 2-0°C, I thought I went overboard, this sleeping bag is rated for the lowest temperatures out of all the bags at the store. I tested it on a cold winter night at home before taking on a hike. My toes were numb and I was shivering at 5°C. Had to put on a fleece jacket, down jacket, fleece pants and thermal socks on top of the base. Still had numb toes all night but stopped shivering. In my case a thermal liner is essential, seemingly no sleeping bag can keep me warm.
I upgraded my sleeping mat and went from shivering to sleeping soundly and warmly all night. It seems like your need all items working together: base layer, liner, bag, mat
Great advice. Even the comfort ratings don't guarantee a warm night for every person. My girlfriend got a -9°C (women's comfort rating) bag and still sometimes feels a bit chilly once it hits zero. One thing I learned is that sleeping bag ratings already account for at least a full base layer, tops and bottoms. I have that same liner in the video but didn't really like it (too constricting and minimal extra warmth for the price), so we usually just put on extra clothes if we need to, and wash our sleeping bags when we need to.
Think of it as a sleep system. A good pad with a solid R value and a quality down bag. Perhaps a good liner as well. Don’t wear a lot of clothes in your bag, your body heat gets trapped in the clothes and the feathers from your bag can’t do their job. I wear a t shirt and boxers only even when it’s 10 degrees. Know how you sleep and where your comfort level is and buy your gear accordingly. Staying warm and comfortable costs money!!
5 years on, with the Ultralight community raging on and a Z-packs sleeping bag weighing 450g as well, is this still considered a light mummy liner by any stretch of the measure?
Just a note/tip: 400 g for a (mummy) liner is a huge weight, especially if you use it for backpacking, and even more when hiking/mountaneering. There are many silk solutions probably at the same price (or even less) and thermal performances that weigh roughly 100g in total (yours is 400% of the weight of these last). Another advantage is also that the silk ones would be quicker to dry. PS: Anyway thanks for the content
Silk only gives you about 5to7degF added warmth.the reactor extreme gives you 25f and it works I’ve used both silk and the reactor.if it’s going to be -f I take the reactor 👍🏻
What sleeping bag is your choice in the 30F range? Any particular brand or model? Thank you... I want to use this with the lining that you mention here...
hey! nice review! I had a -2° C confort down sleeping bag, and i want to increase the warmth in it, and I pretendt to go to the andes, with temperatures around -5 to 5 °C, this reactor will help me to sleep confortable in those condicions? thanks for the videos!
Just discovered your reviews and I am really appreciating the quality of the content and the wisdom within. If you're ever back in Tassie i'll hit you up for a Basecamp t-shirt and buy you a beer with the money saved on postage ;-)
ahahah. dude, have I got a t-shirt for you. Good to hear from a Tasmanian. Just got off the phone with the Hike or Die podcast talking all about tassie etc. so keep an eye out for that!
Definitely will....i'm actually just setting myself up for some lightweight hiking now (normally a trail/mountain runner) and had used one of their videos as good source for an emerg bivvy. An aussie in Europe is a valued entity. Great that you've picked up some language too. I just spent 4 years in Austria so i've totally got taxi-driver level German under the belt, not wanting to rest on my laurels i'm aiming for kebab shop owner level. Tassie's going to go off with more outdoor adventure stuff in coming years but i don't think it will ever take the wild factor away. For better or for worse there are more mb tracks and ultra events on the horizon, and i'd just be happy to see tourism provide the jobs that traditional industries have previously filled. Mantente seguro pero bebe más cerveza.
HIHI, I have lamina z flame 22 sleeping bag. I used it on mountblnac glacier in a tent for two nights in -10C, it was alright, but not super comfortable. I dont want to buy an other sleepingbag as you said they are expensive. Would this product make a difference for me til -10? :) its a synthetic bag but i love it.... haha.... love your review
Arpudli I’m not familiar with the sleeping bag you have but I think buying one of these is the best you’re going to get without buying a whole new sleeping bag!
Hi. how tall are you? Are you comfortable in the bag? I ask you because exists a long version, I am 182 cm tall and I would not want to make a wrong purchase. Thanks in advance. Marco
My liner is opened all the way down the side i like to sleep on so i can easily unzip the same-side zip on my bag and kick my leg(s) straight out, there's no noticeable loss of heat at night and I can get comfy if i get hot. It tore first and I just ripped it further then stitched about ankle height for a max low point.
Dan Brault, there is a long iron on zipper available from the home DIY stores. You can cut open the liner and apply the zipper. There is a demo of this on you tube somewhere. I plan to do that to the short version of the reactor that I bought. I am 77 and nature does urgently call at times.
I would heavily recommend using a silk liner at the very least. You want your products to last you as long as possible... especially your sleeping bag as it is often the most expensive item of your camping gear.
It is insane. Every review is absolutely clear: liners do not add even a half of their proclaimed temperature push. Why the hell manufacturers keep claiming that? It is misleading of consumers that can have fatal consequences in extreme cases.
This is the first of my "endurance review" series, where i only review products that I have owned and used frequently for at least 5 years! Subscribe to see the next installments... boots, socks, backpack and mid layer!
What kind of sleeping bag is that
@@yepYup22 it's a sea to summit sleeping bag as well. A traverse
I’ve had this liner for about five years now and though it doesn’t add no 25° to your bag, you might get 7/8. But what it does do is keep your dirty skin and oils off of your bag, especially if you have a down bag and it also alleviates cold spots when you move around at night. The fabric is very comfortable and very stretchy. Highly recommend.
I’ve had this liner for 5 years. Used it while staying at friends and once on an very warm backpack trip. Was not so keen on the extra weight so have not used for backpacking as an actual liner to my bag, but your review gave me an renewed interest in trying a product I already own.
I've had it for 10 years now. still goin strong
I’ve been using this for 4 years now. I like it and I agree with you on all points. I did just invest in a Appalachian gear (alpaca wool) liner 16oz. Excited to see how it compares.
May I ask about your experience with your alpaca wool liner? Thanks!
Update, Jacob?
@@rubyrupin the app gear wool liner is very nice and warm. There are some downsides tho. The benefits to the alpaca wool is that it will still insulate when damp. Which I found helpful. The downside is weight and durability. I’ve only been using mine for a couple months and it already has a couple pin holes. Could be from moths but I think it’s just wear and tear. I have a app gear hoody however that I wear all the time and it still looks new. I have a 20 degree bag from feathered friends and I use the sea to summit ether light xt pad. It’s been a pretty good 4 season setup. I can add one of the liners or both with a thermarest z lite foam pad and sleep comfortable down to around 10 degrees F.
Good product. I suggest practice using it at home for a few nights to learn how to get in and out of it in the middle of the night. there is no side opening and you slide in from the top. the liner is very stretchy so it is able to move with you
Excellent review. Very informative and honest from a knowledgeable and experienced user of the product. Huge thanks mate.
I just purchased the sea to summit regular sleeping bag liner. Such a difference when I sleep now. I was looking at this one for winter camping to help add some warmth. Plus always like to keep my gear as clean as possible, hiking is dirty LOL
SkinnyGPanda yes especially if you have an expensive sleeping bag it’s totally worth it to have any kind of liner, but sure, this one is great for winter. Thanks for your comment!
If you're 5'6" / 170cm the sea to summit compact plus is a better choice than the extreme because there's no point carrying the extra weight of a liner longer than you need. The compact plus is not as warm as the extreme but it is still warm and the lighter fabric weight combined with the shorter length makes it 5 ounces lighter than the extreme (142 grams lighter). So the 9 ounce compact plus is defintely better than the 14 ounce extreme if you're 5'6" tall or shorter because of the weight savings and smaller volume in your pack. And it is possible some taller people might even want to forget about needing to use the hood on their liner and use the compact plus anyway. This liner is warmer than the basic sea to summit thermolite reactor but it has the same weight because of its shorter length. And a liner that offers additional warmth is definitely what you want because why bother buying a liner that doesn't give you this bonus however like this video says, the main reason for a liner is keeping your bag clean so carrying a 14oz liner instead of a 9oz liner isn't worth the extra pack weight when the difference in warmth between the extreme and the compact plus is not a good deal for the five ounce penalty.
Also the Western Mountaineering site's cleaning page doesn't mention liners and instead says a tee shirt, shorts and socks is as good as a sheet to prevent body oil and sweat etc from dirtying your down. I might still use a liner because I have dry skin and I like the extra warmth of my compact plus but if I learn that my dry skin isn't a real problem for the bag it will be difficult for me to keep the liner because it's actually only two degrees C of warmth added to the bag (for a 9oz penalty) which is still a lot of warmth so I don't know what I'll do. But the extreme liner is only an actual 3 C of warmth for a 14oz penalty which is pretty heavy for something that doesn't keep your bag any cleaner than a tee shirt, shorts and socks depending on your skin. And if you're sleeping in dusty pants and dusty jacket the liner is a must. Anyway it all depends what you're doing but if you have regular skin, don't sleep in dusty clothes, sleep in a shirt, shorts and socks and can manage without a couple degrees added to your warmth these liners are an unnecessary weight.
Also, I'm living on the trail so the idea of a liner is more practical than somebody just going out for a couple weeks who can simply wash their bag when they get home. It doesn't make sense to carry weight on your trip to avoid some housework when you get home.
Very useful video. Interested in this liner for a winter camp I have coming up. Many thanks for sharing. ATB- Ben👍
You had me sold by 0:37 sec!
Intents Offroad hahah it’s cool, the rest of the video sucks anyway lol. But yeah, it’s been through the ringer
Thank you for introducing the new product.
you're welcome! thanks for watching
If you are a woman and also think you run cold compared to your other female friends seriously go overboard on the sleeping bag warmth.
I bought a sleeping bag rated to -11°C transition, -5°C women's comfort(yes I checked, it is rated using the EN standard). I knew I ran cold so I bought it even though I'll only be using it between 2-0°C, I thought I went overboard, this sleeping bag is rated for the lowest temperatures out of all the bags at the store.
I tested it on a cold winter night at home before taking on a hike. My toes were numb and I was shivering at 5°C. Had to put on a fleece jacket, down jacket, fleece pants and thermal socks on top of the base. Still had numb toes all night but stopped shivering.
In my case a thermal liner is essential, seemingly no sleeping bag can keep me warm.
I upgraded my sleeping mat and went from shivering to sleeping soundly and warmly all night.
It seems like your need all items working together: base layer, liner, bag, mat
Great advice. Even the comfort ratings don't guarantee a warm night for every person. My girlfriend got a -9°C (women's comfort rating) bag and still sometimes feels a bit chilly once it hits zero. One thing I learned is that sleeping bag ratings already account for at least a full base layer, tops and bottoms. I have that same liner in the video but didn't really like it (too constricting and minimal extra warmth for the price), so we usually just put on extra clothes if we need to, and wash our sleeping bags when we need to.
Think of it as a sleep system. A good pad with a solid R value and a quality down bag. Perhaps a good liner as well.
Don’t wear a lot of clothes in your bag, your body heat gets trapped in the clothes and the feathers from your bag can’t do their job. I wear a t shirt and boxers only even when it’s 10 degrees. Know how you sleep and where your comfort level is and buy your gear accordingly. Staying warm and comfortable costs money!!
Very nice review. Got this liner from my better half for Xmas. Looking forward to trying it out 👍🏻👍🏻🇳🇴
5 years on, with the Ultralight community raging on and a Z-packs sleeping bag weighing 450g as well, is this still considered a light mummy liner by any stretch of the measure?
So what sleeping bag did you use for Ama Dablam paired with the reactor extreme? I've read gear lists and some say -10ºC and some -28ºC bags
Just a note/tip:
400 g for a (mummy) liner is a huge weight, especially if you use it for backpacking, and even more when hiking/mountaneering. There are many silk solutions probably at the same price (or even less) and thermal performances that weigh roughly 100g in total (yours is 400% of the weight of these last). Another advantage is also that the silk ones would be quicker to dry.
PS: Anyway thanks for the content
Silk only gives you about 5to7degF added warmth.the reactor extreme gives you 25f and it works I’ve used both silk and the reactor.if it’s going to be -f I take the reactor 👍🏻
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 Really? So this will turn a +5 deg C comfort rating bag into a -9 deg C bag? I don't think so.
@@pault5947 it works for me maybe your soft
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 Lmao fucken savage
You wusses who whine about a few extra ounces kill me. Get in shape and drop a few pounds off your fat azzes and you won’t have to worry about it.
What sleeping bag is your choice in the 30F range? Any particular brand or model? Thank you... I want to use this with the lining that you mention here...
What type of budget do you have and how often do you use a sleeping bag? Those answers will determine the quality of bag you should buy.
Thanks! Great review!
100% Polyester on the label :/ just got one today. curious as to what makes Thermolite different to just a regular polyester liner
you used it yet? any difference?
@@MikeDavidson-bu9mc Haven't tried it in really cold conditions yet. It certainly feels like it could be used for a light summer sleeping bag 🤔
It’s a marketing ploy. It’s just thin polyester. I’d say it adds 5 degrees.
hey! nice review! I had a -2° C confort down sleeping bag, and i want to increase the warmth in it, and I pretendt to go to the andes, with temperatures around -5 to 5 °C, this reactor will help me to sleep confortable in those condicions? thanks for the videos!
Just discovered your reviews and I am really appreciating the quality of the content and the wisdom within. If you're ever back in Tassie i'll hit you up for a Basecamp t-shirt and buy you a beer with the money saved on postage ;-)
ahahah. dude, have I got a t-shirt for you. Good to hear from a Tasmanian. Just got off the phone with the Hike or Die podcast talking all about tassie etc. so keep an eye out for that!
Definitely will....i'm actually just setting myself up for some lightweight hiking now (normally a trail/mountain runner) and had used one of their videos as good source for an emerg bivvy. An aussie in Europe is a valued entity. Great that you've picked up some language too. I just spent 4 years in Austria so i've totally got taxi-driver level German under the belt, not wanting to rest on my laurels i'm aiming for kebab shop owner level.
Tassie's going to go off with more outdoor adventure stuff in coming years but i don't think it will ever take the wild factor away. For better or for worse there are more mb tracks and ultra events on the horizon, and i'd just be happy to see tourism provide the jobs that traditional industries have previously filled.
Mantente seguro pero bebe más cerveza.
Can i use 2 inside each other ? For -0° in a -18° sleeping bag
5:00 What is a "tea house", in context of tent or bivvy?
Do you mean like a hostel? Or some kind of portable shelter?
How about a military virging wool blanket I got? I suppose I should use 10° bag if aimimg for 0° weather??! I think it would be way warmer.
it says it can be a stand alone bag for warmer climates ?
HIHI, I have lamina z flame 22 sleeping bag. I used it on mountblnac glacier in a tent for two nights in -10C, it was alright, but not super comfortable. I dont want to buy an other sleepingbag as you said they are expensive. Would this product make a difference for me til -10? :) its a synthetic bag but i love it.... haha.... love your review
Arpudli I’m not familiar with the sleeping bag you have but I think buying one of these is the best you’re going to get without buying a whole new sleeping bag!
Hi. how tall are you? Are you comfortable in the bag? I ask you because exists a long version, I am 182 cm tall and I would not want to make a wrong purchase. Thanks in advance. Marco
Nice review
I'm older and need to get out during the nightcan you refer me to a way of getting in and out easily.
Thanks
My liner is opened all the way down the side i like to sleep on so i can easily unzip the same-side zip on my bag and kick my leg(s) straight out, there's no noticeable loss of heat at night and I can get comfy if i get hot. It tore first and I just ripped it further then stitched about ankle height for a max low point.
thanks. the problem was that mine did't open .@@craig2.071
That’s going to take some research on my behalf I think ahaha
Dan Brault, there is a long iron on zipper available from the home DIY stores. You can cut open the liner and apply the zipper. There is a demo of this on you tube somewhere. I plan to do that to the short version of the reactor that I bought. I am 77 and nature does urgently call at times.
@@trilbyarnold3341 well there ya go, necessity is the mother of invention yet again!
Great vid
Que tal amigo saludos desde México, pero osea este sleeping es para ponerlo dentro de otro sleeping?
Si!! Para calentar el saco de dormir que ya tiene.
@@ChaseMountains muchas gracias amigo saludos ✌️
My sleeping bag his comfort is 3 degrees , if i add this could i use it in colder weather?
Yep absolutely.
Chase Mountains thanks for the response!
@@Olivjeefilms no worries brotha!!
I would heavily recommend using a silk liner at the very least. You want your products to last you as long as possible... especially your sleeping bag as it is often the most expensive item of your camping gear.
What about Merino Wool?
@@patrickcagney8060 An excellent choice for colder nights! Very comfortable, and will also add 3-4 C° to your sleeping bag.
It is insane. Every review is absolutely clear: liners do not add even a half of their proclaimed temperature push. Why the hell manufacturers keep claiming that? It is misleading of consumers that can have fatal consequences in extreme cases.
What do you think happens if they lie about it? Nothing
@@user-xu8it5nh2l Only someone potentially freezing to death because they thought they have upgraded their sleeping bag?
Tucson?
as in the filming location? Its Montserrat in Spain :)
Tom Hardy before Bronson?
This comment is going on my self esteem wall.
Chase Mountains “Nobody cared who I was till I hopped in the sleeping bag liner....”
Great liners, but so expensive.. It's not even a membrane material.
Still pretty crazy high tech tho when you look into it. Buy yeah, expensive for sure.
I am only 1.60 so I will never buy this product.