@10:30 One of the strange things I noticed was that the PDC turrets stopped firing before the torpedo was destroyed. It looks like the PDCs might be pure visual and just coded to do deterministic DPS to incoming targets as a way to lower server load, otherwise they wouldn't know that the target would for sure be killed by the bullets already fired.
@@DedLeader Given the persistent problems with Desynch. on the servers to this day it could easily just be that the game is a buggy mess with the player seeing events out of order, or something else, but the guns appearing to presciently know how many bullets they need to fire before their target goes down points to a problem somewhere.
@RN1441 I notice this too, the PDS turrets stop firing as if they would know the torpedo will get destroyed. But let's not kid ourselves, this is CIG :). Most of the people who know what they are doing left, CIG has to work mostly with young and inexperienced people who don't find enough experienced people to learn from. Of course this is, once again, the lowest possible effort, it is all fake. Of course it is a game, in the end, everything is faked. However, one can fake believable and one can fake making it look like magic.
@@Camural I would actually be HAPPY to see CIG taking a shortcut like this as it wastes far less resources and developer time to have the PDC just do hitscan damage to targets rather than tracking every little projectile individually as they have talked about obsessively doing in the past. It's just a waste of resources on both developer time and server performance.
@@RN1441 not really, a shortcut likes this presents a few other problems. just like some games where netlimiters can "scuff" damage to enemies, the same could happen here in that, if the server or user ends up having some serious network limitation, the "damage" might not be correctly registered therefor when the PDS stops firing because it "assumes" and x value of damage has been accrued then said missile could actually still be functional and on its way to kill you and you died because your PDS was coded poorly. If thats how they have actually coded this system then I can see so much wrong with it in terms of cheaters abusing it, there would have to be some server-client authentication on this code to ensure no one is abusing output or receiving damage through nefarious means which imo just presents more issues
It doesn't need balancing. Point defense SHOULD destroy them. That's why you get more than one ship involved so that the point defense is overwhelmed. They are not too effective- this is a Polaris, not a fighter. It's this sort of thinking that got us where we are to begin with, with everything being equally bad. F8C, Corsair, Ares... the list goes on.
Have you considered testing firing torpedoes from multiple angles? So one from the side, one from the top, and one from the rear? That way you can see if the logic allows the PDS to operate independently when and if needed.
Good question. I think the new missile speed is profoundly stupid. If they want to make it interesting but give people a chance, give missiles high top speed with low acceleration to encourage firing from longer range. Make missiles the king of long range with guns the king of short range.
Now it works like this: one system destroys one target and then reloads. If you have 4 systems firing at 1 torpedo, after it is destroyed they will all go into reloading. To destroy all the torpedoes you need to rotate the body of the ship so that the systems aim one at a time and not all at once.
@vladkudrya9615 this is not how it works. 890 destroyed all incoming size 10 torpedoes. Polaris destroyed all incoming size 10 torpedoes when aiming at the rear or sides. My guess is the forward PDS arc of Polaris is bugged.
@@CamuralBugs can explain absolutely everything in this game) In our tests, if the ship was spinning, it shot down much more missiles and torpedoes. We launched size 5 and size 9 torpedoes from different directions simultaneously. 5 people shot Polaris with torpedoes. And this is our observation, after the system is triggered in one direction, it seems to freeze for a while. In general, if you rotate the ship when you attacking from all sides, you will live much longer. If the ship stood calmly, then when attacked from all sides, it shot down torpedoes from both sides and torpedoes hit from the other sides, and if you rotate it, it shot down much more torpedoes
@@vladkudrya9615 i also found this to be the best way to defence against torps in PVP combat, dunno if is intended or not, but switching the PDCs seems to work best, and it gives such hard The Expanse vibes when you are rotating and the PDCs are blasting torps all around you
It's weird how hit or miss the PDCs are. I saw 2 other streamers who couldn't get any 4 torp salvos through to the other polaris. Probably crappy servers
Fire a volley of s3 missiles from the pilot seat as you fire a volley of torpedoes to overwhelm the PDS. Just make sure you're at close range because those s3 missiles are quite a bit faster. It seems the PDS targets first-in-range.
Maybe PDS's staying operational and effective is good for getting ships to a soft death state for boarding, salvage, etc. Otherwise one 'oops extra torp' kills the gameplay.
Point Defense should be ballistic based and not laser that way it can run out of ammo, this would make it more balanced in not constantly shooting everything down and may even make sense if the main power goes out.
Might be that the first explosion makes so the pds gets blinded. Because it sounds like the pds starts shooting the last torp around 5.40 min. If you got time test the pds system while moving, Might actually be good, If it actually work that good they should put in subtargetting turrets and components, armor and armor penetration. and make large hulls invurnable to weapons below size 4. That way fighters will have a use taking out external components, while the large ships breech the hull.
12:43 How is that even possible. I laugh when you claim CIG does not play their own game, but stuff like this make it painfully obvious that you are correct.
@the-Sauce this is not how Star Citizen's "physics" work, objects do not inherit the speed of their mother ship: -a Merlin released at max afterburner speed of an Andromeda is at zero speed -objects thrown out of a ship are at zero speed -missiles/torpedoes launched from a ship are at their own speed, they do not get a boost from the ship firing them. Yes, Star Citizen has very little physics even in year 13.
Point defense is super op, i guess bombers will have to get super close and dummy fire to do anything. my next question is are capital ships the only ones to get point defense weapons or are large ships going to get this op system as well?
@friendlyspacedragon7250 no, the "fire torpedo button pusher" enters the torpedo console, which is at the torpedo tubes (you might want to watch my video Polaris - first look). He uses an external camera, selects a target, target gets locked, unless distance is too low, and he fires 1-4 size 10 torpedoes. Of course the bridge crew can "pin" a target, still, this is shoving multi crewing down our throats, like CIG did with Scorpius DS (aka Antares) and ROC-DS. If CIG insists on a dedicated "fire torpedo button pusher", fine. However, he should be on the bridge and not standing on a console. Just imagine what force reactions will do to him.
Fairly easy, nose pointing at incoming tops was not budging, it is possible it was using only 1 pas, when ship was dead in water, it was drifting with rotation, it is possible it was using more pds?
it is extremely weak, or at least the base bespoke ballistic size 6 are terrible, took over 5-6 direct hits on an npc mustang to kill it which is pathetic, I switched to attritions 6 and now am using deadbolts to see the difference
the power plants are being destroyed by 1 hit to the front? so the blast radius is like 100m? like the power plants are nowhere close to the front of the ship lol, also PDCs work better when you put the target at 45 degrees on all angle and not straight forward plus more power to weapons give them more ammo, since they have very low ammo count. 20 or 40ish
For a ship that will require engineering and be very costly to operate (it already kind of is, repairs and restock is ludicrous), it is utterly underpowered, the torpedoes are fine (they could use having more hp so they can withstand some fire from PDS) but the turrets are waaay to weak, especially the s6, dual s6 ballistics should not require over 5-6 direct hits to kill an npc mustang and overall the ship is pretty weak, and it's very sad that it is unable to restock the fighter in the hangar bay, it also needs at least double the amount of power it currently has, right now you can't fire with the laser turrets for more than 2 seconds before you run out. I would say it perhaps needs a nerf to its hull hp, right now it feels like a tank that's unable to hit anything hard which is the exact opposite of what it should be
@jimhansen1245 like I mention in the video, power plant, coolers and shield generator are destroyed. Maybe we can do repairs when we get engineering game play.
Armour isn't in the system, so my guess is it does much more HP damage than amour damage when it's all in. So hull items take 100% and amour is leveled depending on what type it is.
torpedos, not missiles, you can fire missiles from the pilot and copilot seat, torpedo operator has its own FLIR to aim and fire and that seems normal in a capital ship
As we all know, putting a single player in charge of all functions of every ship is the optimal form of gameplay and no other variation of this formula should exist. Large multicrew ships are a failed experiment, might as well cancel the game.
apparently if you're moving at full speed and you fire a torp - it hits your ship.
Skill issue
Connie has always done the same thing.
Why, are torps slower than ships? That would be such a CIGG move, retards can't even get logic
😂
Get gud!
@10:30 One of the strange things I noticed was that the PDC turrets stopped firing before the torpedo was destroyed. It looks like the PDCs might be pure visual and just coded to do deterministic DPS to incoming targets as a way to lower server load, otherwise they wouldn't know that the target would for sure be killed by the bullets already fired.
This is a wild code conspiracy! I wonder if it's true?
@@DedLeader Given the persistent problems with Desynch. on the servers to this day it could easily just be that the game is a buggy mess with the player seeing events out of order, or something else, but the guns appearing to presciently know how many bullets they need to fire before their target goes down points to a problem somewhere.
@RN1441 I notice this too, the PDS turrets stop firing as if they would know the torpedo will get destroyed.
But let's not kid ourselves, this is CIG :). Most of the people who know what they are doing left, CIG has to work mostly with young and inexperienced people who don't find enough experienced people to learn from.
Of course this is, once again, the lowest possible effort, it is all fake.
Of course it is a game, in the end, everything is faked.
However, one can fake believable and one can fake making it look like magic.
@@Camural I would actually be HAPPY to see CIG taking a shortcut like this as it wastes far less resources and developer time to have the PDC just do hitscan damage to targets rather than tracking every little projectile individually as they have talked about obsessively doing in the past. It's just a waste of resources on both developer time and server performance.
@@RN1441 not really, a shortcut likes this presents a few other problems. just like some games where netlimiters can "scuff" damage to enemies, the same could happen here in that, if the server or user ends up having some serious network limitation, the "damage" might not be correctly registered therefor when the PDS stops firing because it "assumes" and x value of damage has been accrued then said missile could actually still be functional and on its way to kill you and you died because your PDS was coded poorly.
If thats how they have actually coded this system then I can see so much wrong with it in terms of cheaters abusing it, there would have to be some server-client authentication on this code to ensure no one is abusing output or receiving damage through nefarious means which imo just presents more issues
lol, the renovations meshed well with the PDS, nice sound effect.
PDS inconsistency probably had to do with the line of sight
Especially since I believe the majority of the pds turrets are on the bottom
@@the-Sauce there is three on top and three on the bottom but they all cant really see to well to the front
Reverify our range to target. One ping only. Give me a ping Vasily. One ping only please.
Your neighbors sounds is better than the pew pew of the PDS on the Polaris.
@louhodo5761 I noticed this too :)
I actually sounded like a real Phalanx CIWS.
Yeah, I thought the neighbors were test firing their Phalanx as well.
PDCs are like the other turrets, the more power to weapons you give, the more ammo and faster regen of ammo they will have
Great job guys!!!
It doesn't need balancing. Point defense SHOULD destroy them. That's why you get more than one ship involved so that the point defense is overwhelmed. They are not too effective- this is a Polaris, not a fighter. It's this sort of thinking that got us where we are to begin with, with everything being equally bad. F8C, Corsair, Ares... the list goes on.
Have you considered testing firing torpedoes from multiple angles? So one from the side, one from the top, and one from the rear? That way you can see if the logic allows the PDS to operate independently when and if needed.
@Paradox3713 We noticed the PDS cannons are rotating very quickly rotate, very very quickly.
But maybe we try this too.
If the torpedos travel so slowly, what's stopping any ship from just out running them?
Good question. I think the new missile speed is profoundly stupid. If they want to make it interesting but give people a chance, give missiles high top speed with low acceleration to encourage firing from longer range. Make missiles the king of long range with guns the king of short range.
The ships they are meant for are not that fast.
Now it works like this: one system destroys one target and then reloads. If you have 4 systems firing at 1 torpedo, after it is destroyed they will all go into reloading. To destroy all the torpedoes you need to rotate the body of the ship so that the systems aim one at a time and not all at once.
@vladkudrya9615 this is not how it works.
890 destroyed all incoming size 10 torpedoes.
Polaris destroyed all incoming size 10 torpedoes when aiming at the rear or sides.
My guess is the forward PDS arc of Polaris is bugged.
@@CamuralBugs can explain absolutely everything in this game) In our tests, if the ship was spinning, it shot down much more missiles and torpedoes. We launched size 5 and size 9 torpedoes from different directions simultaneously. 5 people shot Polaris with torpedoes. And this is our observation, after the system is triggered in one direction, it seems to freeze for a while. In general, if you rotate the ship when you attacking from all sides, you will live much longer. If the ship stood calmly, then when attacked from all sides, it shot down torpedoes from both sides and torpedoes hit from the other sides, and if you rotate it, it shot down much more torpedoes
@@vladkudrya9615 I found this to happen also
@@vladkudrya9615 i also found this to be the best way to defence against torps in PVP combat, dunno if is intended or not, but switching the PDCs seems to work best, and it gives such hard The Expanse vibes when you are rotating and the PDCs are blasting torps all around you
Flicka is the first iteration of Skynet, just loaded onto a CIG server
how can a Starfarer NOT have this kind of defense system lool.
So that each ship is different! And you have to make choices! And employ escorts!
Starfarer is an old, old, design.
@@Kyle-sr6jm does not mean that you cannot equip it with new technology lmao
Like Austin powers when that guy had the steam roller coming at him. Haha so slow
It's weird how hit or miss the PDCs are. I saw 2 other streamers who couldn't get any 4 torp salvos through to the other polaris. Probably crappy servers
Do you mean the torps didn't fire in a salvo of 4? Or do you mean all the torps were shot down?
Fire a volley of s3 missiles from the pilot seat as you fire a volley of torpedoes to overwhelm the PDS. Just make sure you're at close range because those s3 missiles are quite a bit faster. It seems the PDS targets first-in-range.
Maybe PDS's staying operational and effective is good for getting ships to a soft death state for boarding, salvage, etc. Otherwise one 'oops extra torp' kills the gameplay.
The point defenses don’t have a great angle facing the threat. They work better from the sides or back.
Point Defense should be ballistic based and not laser that way it can run out of ammo, this would make it more balanced in not constantly shooting everything down and may even make sense if the main power goes out.
Might be that the first explosion makes so the pds gets blinded. Because it sounds like the pds starts shooting the last torp around 5.40 min. If you got time test the pds system while moving, Might actually be good, If it actually work that good they should put in subtargetting turrets and components, armor and armor penetration. and make large hulls invurnable to weapons below size 4. That way fighters will have a use taking out external components, while the large ships breech the hull.
I think head on you only have one PDS turret active. Broad side there were a lot more. Could use a Firebird or something to spam other missiles too.
Wish torpedo controls were also on the Bridge. After watching this I am thinking torpedoes need a speed rework.
I think I found purpose for Drake Herald. It can be used as a size 20 torpedo to kill Polaris
Now have 2 Polaris ships fire torpedoes with 1 ship on each side of 890 with PDS on.
12:43 How is that even possible. I laugh when you claim CIG does not play their own game, but stuff like this make it painfully obvious that you are correct.
I wonder if the best way to deliver a payload is to launch while moving as fast as possible to compensate for the slow torpedo speed
@the-Sauce this is not how Star Citizen's "physics" work, objects do not inherit the speed of their mother ship:
-a Merlin released at max afterburner speed of an Andromeda is at zero speed
-objects thrown out of a ship are at zero speed
-missiles/torpedoes launched from a ship are at their own speed, they do not get a boost from the ship firing them.
Yes, Star Citizen has very little physics even in year 13.
Point defense is super op, i guess bombers will have to get super close and dummy fire to do anything. my next question is are capital ships the only ones to get point defense weapons or are large ships going to get this op system as well?
Oh so that’s what it looks like when it’s mostly working.
That inconsistent point defence was weird.
How does the torpedo launching work? Pilot locks a target and the button presser presses button?
@friendlyspacedragon7250 no, the "fire torpedo button pusher" enters the torpedo console, which is at the torpedo tubes (you might want to watch my video Polaris - first look).
He uses an external camera, selects a target, target gets locked, unless distance is too low, and he fires 1-4 size 10 torpedoes.
Of course the bridge crew can "pin" a target, still, this is shoving multi crewing down our throats, like CIG did with Scorpius DS (aka Antares) and ROC-DS.
If CIG insists on a dedicated "fire torpedo button pusher", fine.
However, he should be on the bridge and not standing on a console.
Just imagine what force reactions will do to him.
Fairly easy, nose pointing at incoming tops was not budging, it is possible it was using only 1 pas, when ship was dead in water, it was drifting with rotation, it is possible it was using more pds?
I think its the angle of the ship, try from sides?
How much damage do they do?
I’ve seen the pdt work better in other videos so it seems to be a server performance issue :(
Why no boom?
Will it shoot down multiple rattlers though? Not that they will hurt this thing much
But how powerfull is the front turret?
Slightly more DPS than a HH turret, like 10-20%, since it only has 2 size 6 guns, while HH has 4 size 4 guns.
it is extremely weak, or at least the base bespoke ballistic size 6 are terrible, took over 5-6 direct hits on an npc mustang to kill it which is pathetic, I switched to attritions 6 and now am using deadbolts to see the difference
@@Stormyy6310 Wait the Attrions are fixed?
@@brockoala2994 yes they are
@@Stormyy6310 Those sounds realy weak for sure. Hope deadbolts works better!
Why is my fps tanking in 3.24.2? Yours is so smooth in 3.24.3.
Does the point defense system work even if no one is in pilot seat?
@damonbillaxe good question, I would think yes, but haven't tested it yet.
Does the Point Defence Guns shoot others hostile Ships too or only Missles ?
Only missiles and only if they are locked onto you. Dumb fired missiles are not tracked.
@@tafferinthedark
Thats not true.
The automatic Point Defence Turrets actually shoots small Fighter Ships too.
Thats very cool about the Ship !!!
I dont think the PDS is TOO good. This encourages fleet formations and support from other ships to get a kill in.
the power plants are being destroyed by 1 hit to the front? so the blast radius is like 100m? like the power plants are nowhere close to the front of the ship lol, also PDCs work better when you put the target at 45 degrees on all angle and not straight forward plus more power to weapons give them more ammo, since they have very low ammo count. 20 or 40ish
Soo the explosion clips into the ship and takes out your stuff lol.....lucky it didnt blow you outa the chair
Normal for CIG. No Newtnian phys8cs.
For a ship that will require engineering and be very costly to operate (it already kind of is, repairs and restock is ludicrous), it is utterly underpowered, the torpedoes are fine (they could use having more hp so they can withstand some fire from PDS) but the turrets are waaay to weak, especially the s6, dual s6 ballistics should not require over 5-6 direct hits to kill an npc mustang and overall the ship is pretty weak, and it's very sad that it is unable to restock the fighter in the hangar bay, it also needs at least double the amount of power it currently has, right now you can't fire with the laser turrets for more than 2 seconds before you run out.
I would say it perhaps needs a nerf to its hull hp, right now it feels like a tank that's unable to hit anything hard which is the exact opposite of what it should be
I have the same neighbor 😅
The Point def can shoot ever 1 Rocket...then U have Cooldown But The other Point def what u have ... U must move yor Polaris to this side
are the system dead or do they repair?
@jimhansen1245 like I mention in the video, power plant, coolers and shield generator are destroyed.
Maybe we can do repairs when we get engineering game play.
Thanks for your "research"!
Wonder in how many months from now before the nerf it?? Any bets? I would say around Invictus 2025
About a week after IAE.
Seems they work now. Or the one on the Connie is just crap...
meh kinda disappointed that 1 torp disables the ship entirely
@mateoemanuel3517 well 890 is killed by one size 10 torpedo.
@@Camural ye but the 890 has less than 200 k hp the polaris has 4 mil
Armour isn't in the system, so my guess is it does much more HP damage than amour damage when it's all in. So hull items take 100% and amour is leveled depending on what type it is.
CIG has revolutionized video games by making firing missiles a 2-person affair. What a game.
torpedos, not missiles, you can fire missiles from the pilot and copilot seat, torpedo operator has its own FLIR to aim and fire and that seems normal in a capital ship
It's a multicrew ship.
As we all know, putting a single player in charge of all functions of every ship is the optimal form of gameplay and no other variation of this formula should exist. Large multicrew ships are a failed experiment, might as well cancel the game.
@@DrakeRichter this!, im so tired of "why i cant fire all my turrets from the pilot seat in my idris" xD
it's a torpedo, not a missile
ur shotthign them all cuz u r moving
Like I mention in the video, targets were stationary.