Is it Wrong to take away Mother's Choice? [RESPONSE] Pro-Life & Pro-Choice Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2020
- Today, I respond to a conversation between 3 pro-lifers and 3 pro-choicers.
It gets heated and quick. Don't miss this!
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MUCH LOVE,
Isaac
when people say, "so many kids have bad parents", it is a horrid argument. just because someone is not going to have good parents does not mean that that child should be killed. diamonds come from pressure.
I’m new to this channel and I really appreciate this space and these videos but this is an INSANE take and you should feel bad about it. “Diamonds come from pressure” so child abuse is cool as long as it makes you stronger. Okay. Great take.
This comment section is awful.
Abortion is eugenics. The solution to bad parenting is Child Protective Services, not killing the child out of convenience.
@@kathyalex778 the solution to not wanting to be a parent is…harming a child you didn’t want and were not ready for badly enough to release them into the custody of the government, which is already overburdened?
Okay. Also that’s real cute suggesting people getting abortions are doing it out of convenience. Truly you are an example of Christian empathy.
@@kathyalex778 amen
@@rohangirl90 The "custody of the government" is not "overwhelmed". There is a miles-long waiting list of parents wanting to adopt babies. And the vast majority of abortions are done out of convenience. Only 1% of abortions are in cases of rape and around 3% are done to save the life of the mother. The vast majority of abortions are because of convenience.
Abortion is wrong and should be illegal, all children deserve a chance to live, no matter what.
My mom was told that my little sister was going to have Downsydrom and that she should get an abortion, thank the Lord my mother choose life. My sister doesn't have Downsydrom, but even if she did it wouldn't make a difference, her life is still worth something to God. The thought that my sister wouldn't be in the world if my mom wasn't Christian and Pro-Life hurts to think about, no one has the right to destroy another human life, no matter the circumstance.
That is powerful.🙏🏼
I have 2 aunts and a uncle with downsendrome and my hole family love them and are glad to have them
Without God and the bible there is no definition of good.
i that why so many religion people commit horrible atrocities?
@@obijan42 The Christian God is a Mob Boss. "Do as I say or else"
@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 you know more, way more non religious people do more crime. they believe they are a star dust and nothing matters so they go out and do way more crime.
non believers or false religion. just the truth.
love you
❤️✝️☮️🛐
So good! It's a child, not a choice.
Yeah right, you can't just murder people for your convenience
The choice is before conception. If you choose to do things that result in a pregnancy that was the decision and choice part. After that there is no choice, just life or murder.
I think I’ve told you about my reddit experiences on another video, but I remember getting into an argument about abortion with someone. I remember them saying something along the lines of “ok if abortions are not aloud, how are we meant to have sex without the risk of having children?” And I said “you don’t have sex until you are married and or prepared to have a child” and i remember them saying “yeah right like I’m not going to have sex”. It really made me think about if people are ever going to change. It’s like we’re fighting a losing battle, which I’m not going to give up, but it’s sad to watch.
I feel the same tension that people may never change, but in reality many people can change their views (there was an 3rd trimester abortion practitioner who after adopting a child quit conducting abortions and changed his view) so even though there is this feeling that we’re in a losing battle, that’s just the more reason to continue fighting, and let God use us and work through us to stop the murdering that abortion is.
Ps thanks for your comment because I feel that way a lot too
I don’t even understand why people are so obsessed with sex. You tell someone not to have sex, and they act like you’re trying to take away their very right to exist.
They’re like, “You think people shouldn’t have sex outside of marriage?! How could you?!” Like… why do they act like not having sex is such a bad thing? Sex sounds like a gross activity, anyway. I’m super happy to be celibate and I don’t understand why everyone seems to think celibacy is somehow undesirable.
So an argument I've never seen adressed is that you did make a choice. Infants don't spontaneously generate in the womb. The parents of the child already made their choice, and they must now live with the natural consequences of their choice. In America your right end where somebody else's begin, and abortion radically violates the infant's basic human rights.
I agree with you for almost 100% of that. I’m just curious, (not trying to argue, just understand,) what would you think of it were a case of rape? Like for example, if someone got pregnant because they were raped and it wasn’t a choice
@@hannahg6052 I'd like to hear their perspective, too.
@@hannahg6052 a child conceived during the horror of rape, is still half the mother's child. Why kill your child because of something his or her father did, no matter how horrific. We don't kill or lock up or hold in anyway responsible, the living children of rapists. I know of 3 cases where the mother went on to raise the child and never regretted it. James Robison is the result of a rape, and he has an organization that feed the poor and and hungry children in Africa, and digs wells so they can have clean water.
👏 👏
I think this might be applying to consensual pre marriage sex, but the intent behind the rule was actually that the man had to step up and look after her.
BRO I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS! I turn 20 this month and ive been with Christ for a little over 5 years now. It’s 4am right now lol and I’ve been going through all your videos and I love this channel. I just subscribed and im gonna tell my friends about your videos. It’s so hard with Christian RUclips channels because so many of them are just kinda “off” in a sense. It’s almost like they lack some heart to their content. But you make everything so transparent and real and that’s just so amazing. I dream of making RUclips videos and podcasts about stuff like this and I hope to start soon in these coming months. Love what you’re doing and I can’t wait for more videos. So cool that you can literally build the kingdom with RUclips videos and reflect and point to Christ.
Michael, that is awesome bro! Your passion is inspiring :) welcome here man!!
People always use the argument my body my choice but when you choose to have sex pregnancy is always a possibility people just don't want to take responsibility for their choices If you don't want a child to the extent that you would end an innocent life you shouldn't be having sex especially without precautions
And if the birth control fails?
*it's her body*
And that's the childs body
*It's my choice*
It's your child
You are choosing to kill your child
"They know it is a life" - however many people have convinced themselves that the child is not a life. A good majority of the people I have conversations with say this. Even the ones that regret their abortions much later admit that they were told it wasn't a life, which helped them make that decision.
I’ve never understood that argument. How is it not a life at a few weeks old but it is a life in 9 months or less?
They talk about choice while denying the child of even making a choice by killing them before the fact. That's hypocrisy.
What’s up with everyone feeling? Feeling, everything is s feeling? Feeling!
Something doesn’t feel right
just started watching your videos - I super appreciate your channel and am really struck by your ability to articulate really difficult truths in a super loving and kind way, thank you
I found you via TikTok and as a Pro-choice person I am Intrigued as the way you view things, especially this subject.. Really helped me understand your side of view👍🏽👍🏽
Glad to hear that!
Why don't you explain why you approve of the 10s of millions of human beings that are not alive today because they were murdered by their mothers through abortion?
Would you have been a nazi during world War 2? Would you have owned slaves when it was legal?
If you can't provide an actual counter argument to the things he said in the video than you have no justification for holding onto your positive stance on unborn child murder on command
Great topic life is inherently hard for everyone. It is Jesus where we can lay down are burdens and in him we find salvation. It is not for me to determine if life is just to hard
idk if people are still watching this video, but as Christians maybe we should worry about making abortion illegal but rather open the ways for women to have more options to make the raising of the baby easier, for example: universal healthcare, raise the minimum wage, free college, better sex ed. in schools and ofc support Christian programs etc… even if it’s illegal people will still get abortions, instead of two people dying we can fight for better options for mothers so that they don’t have to make such a sad decision.
This is exactly my take. Let’s minimize abortions through things that will actually prevent them. Making them illegal won’t stop them from happening. They were happening before Roe v Wade. There are evidence-based ways to prevent abortions that far too many conservatives also fight against which makes no sense.
@@TheHcjfctc Agree 100%. Women have thrown themselves down stairs, drank bleach or other harmful chemicals, or tried to use coat hangers to terminate pregnancies, so making it illegal definitely won't stop it from happening. Ideally it would be nice if abortion wasn't a thing, but as you both said, you can't ban it without doing something to mitigate the need for abortions in the first place. There absolutely needs to be reform in the education and healthcare systems, as well as with access to postsecondary education and living wages.
1000% right you are.
inflation will happen if we increase the minimum wage. so thats a no go on that part.
Universal healthcare is working great in UK. People can't stop complaining and several books could be written about the horror stories. Universal healthcare isn't the only possible way to reform the US healthcare system.
Instead of free college, I think expanding the good post 18 options, The wealth gap between people with college degrees and people without is a lot wider than it used to be, and that isn't fair. You shouldn't have to go to college for a good life. Less people going to college would in turn make it cheaper for government to provide grants to to college students who needed it rather than loans.
It is wrong to take away her choice because she has free will but she is wrong to take away the baby's right to life.
Quite the conundrum hmm.. 😔
I mean, is preventing any other kind of murder not a breach of free will in the same way?
@@EmberBright2077 a very good argument. And that is why abortion is wrong.
For one, I'm pro life. But I've always gone back and forth about how to handle the conversation because if I say "The Bible says......" And then someone says they don't believe in the Bible, now it seems like I have to give evidence for the existence of God and now we've gone to a completely different conversation. So in a quick interaction it seems difficult.
Just give them the science
@@obijan42ese are really poor arguments.
In your first example, even if it was referring to abortion, it was still God causing it, and if she hadn't been unfaithful, then it would have no effect. God can destroy his own creation, but that doesn't give us permission to destroy one another. It probably isn't referring to abortion at all though.
I don't know where the Bible says the soul enters at first breath, but plenty of Bible verses imply that the unborn also have souls, and are as much persons as the born.
It is very possible that you were put to death if the baby was delivered prematurely and died as a result of that, after you assaulted the pregnant woman, since it is possible for a woman to deliver prematurely and the baby live. It isn't miscarriage being referred to, it is premature birth.
... I was a staunch pro-choice person. Until the day I conceived my son. I was fully aware of my having experienced that moment.
And that was the moment I became 100% pro-life.
You’ve helped me SO MUCH, so thank you
@Sunnybeachside yeah didn’t work out huh
Most pro-choice arguments would have had me killed. Niiiice.
No choice to be had here. It's a women's right to choose not to have sex
"Welcome here" makes me think of Sarah Therese-loving these Canadian Christian RUclipsrs!
6:20
When I try to research when life begins scientifically I do not get a clear answer. Most pages I visited state several times that could be the beginning, from fertilization to birth. So does anyone has a clear source for this issue?
Something I've thought about is in the case of an eptopic pregnancy what is really the best thing to do in a case like that?
An ectopic pregnancy always ends in pregnancy loss. The baby cannot develop unless it is in the womb. And if it is not treated it can/most likely will kill the mother. So I do not believe this is considered an abortion in this moral terms.
I HATE ABORTION BUT are we going to help this woman raise her child?
Right. Can't have their cake and eat it too. If abortion is illegal then there needs to be programs in place to help both the mother/family and the child after s/he is born.
@@bri_33 Or also better sex education and affordable birth control and protection.
I follow Jesus and he’s my savior. If I was agnostic or a atheist. I would still be pro life. A beautiful sentient being that is 100% exactly like everyone else and 100% completely different; this is a beautiful aspect of our reality and this should not be takin away from any life
the lady in the red shirt continually uses any excuse in the book to support murder. it does not matter what the child's circumstance may be outside of the womb. they all deserve a chance to live. by using "the kid wont have their needs met" dehumanizes the child based on the capability of the parent to meet its needs. why should it matter if the parent can meet the child's needs? pro life people have been raising BILLIONS of dollars for years to help those women. by using something outside of the argument for the personhood of the child, they end up dehumanizing it. it would be better for them to just admit that they're okay with it because they value the lives of those outside the womb more than those in it, but even then, that isnt even what Roe v. Wade was about. neither was bodily autonomy. Roe v. Wade solely rides upon the personhood of the unborn. we now have definite proof that the unborn are completely unique people from the moment of conception. to forfeit the child's life, the most innocent of all, for that of another is evil.
God bless you
😊💙
hi! so as a christian the ONE this i wonder about is what if abortion is the only way the mother could live… what if you didn’t get an abortion the mother AND child will die? i’m just wondering and i know it’s bad to kill but what if no matter what it’ll kill?? plz answer this Q😩😩 i’ve been wondering for a looong time
You deserve more followers
Hey man although I agree with the religious reasoning there are rational secular arguments that are better at convincing people and are disconnected from religion completely
Maybe. The problem, I think, is that ultimately, the world is God's creation and is not secular. If a secular argument is pushed to it's extreme, you can only fall back on the Lord. Secular reasoning is often more successful in the short term, and should be used, but the limitations of it should be recognised, one of which being that you can only correct behaviour, and not necessarily being people to Christ.
How do you expect non-believers to act?
That's why we contend for the truth. We are the light of the world through Christ to shine onto men so that they will see our good works and glorify our Father that is in heaven. So yh, we still have to let those unbelievers know, same way why we have to preach the gospel to them
If a Jewish person said to you : "According to my faith abortion is Okay", what would you answer?
Keep it up!
Thank you!
God said so that's why xD
Ok so not trying to argue, just trying to understand…. What would you think in a case of where the mother would lose her life if she were to follow through in a birth, or in the case of rape
In the case of rape, rape cases mostly happen by somebody you trust. And as well, the baby is innocent. I have no counterargument for the woman losing her life from giving birth.
Abandon God’s word and His commandments and your morality’s “footing” is firmly planted in mid air...
I love this statement. It’s beautiful and so true.
It is general consensus that murder is wrong. You don’t even need to make religious arguments to argues against abortion.
I see what you’re saying. Obviously it does have everything to do with God and morality. But for making arguments to atheists about this topic, every argument is automatically discredited if you mention your faith.
@@briannarose1996 Just wondering: If a Hindu came up to you and said you shouldn't eat beef because of his faith.... how much would that impact you?
Yes, Yes it is.
When you said that you cant have a arguement against abortion without God, I disagree. The constitution says we have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It doesnt say we have a right to abortion. You can argue what the United States constitution is based on, but legally we have an arguement that it should be illegal. Roe vs Wade was a decision made by unelected officials with no basis in the law. Its a bad precedent and should be overturned.
True, but that just covers America, today. I think his point was more that anything other than God has potential to waver in an ever changing society.
The Bible trumps any and everything
Well, I still think he was right, because the issue goes deeper than human law. Our constitution may protect the right to life, but what are you going to say when somebody questions the infant’s right to life over the mother’s right to whatever she deems her “pursuit of happiness”? What happens when people question whether the law itself is right? Then you have to have some moral principle that is more foundational and more lasting than human law. That’s where God comes in. Without the God of the Bible, there’s no reason to have any specific moral law.
That’s not true! It’s in the penumbra!
@@that_sun_guy6527 No its not.
11:33 Ahh, the other classic argument, "They're not gonna be loved anyway, so it's best to just kill them!" Yes, then don't give the baby up for adoption, raise it yourself.
Sin begets sin most abortions are chosen because the child was conceived out of wed lock fornication . Then the baby is aborted because of whatever reason the mother justifies the abortion. Now she ups the anty from fornication to murder. She could have avoided the whole thing by making the choice to say no to casual sex. In the case of incest or rape the perpetrator is the one who should be punished not the child. The mother has the option to give up the child to adoption. I understand that the she is a victim but should she pass on that victimization to the child by murdering them?
What if the mother's life is in danger?
@@qwertz666 I'm in the medical field so I've also have taken that into consideration. In the case of an ectopic pregnancy both mother and baby are in danger of dying. In medicine the persevation of life is paramount. At the present the only solution would be to resect the embryo to save the mother's life. The mother can live without the embryo and have more children. The embryo can not live without the mother. It is logical and life can be preserved.
@@sergiozenon3306 So you will not let the mother die just becuase she need to bring a child? Then nice.
And what if 12 year old got pregnant by rape?
@Qwertz let me make myself clear the two most heinous crimes in my book are child molestation and rape I have zero tolerance for those crimes and the punishment for those crimes are in my opinion are too lenient. But in the case of pregnancy as a result of a rape, I don't believe the child should pay for the sins of the father . Two wrongs do not make a right. I'm aware of the psychological damage caused by the act. Yet there is always choice. There is counseling and spiritual help available. I read a true story where a young teenager was raped by her father. After getting piritual help she was able to have rhe baby and decided to raise the child as well. The father was convicted and spurned by the family. It is a testament that spiritual fortiitude can overcome anyth ing. Yet everyone is different and may not have the capacity to overcome. I don't condemn anybody for there decisions especially from such an extreme situation; believe me I can empathize. Y ou can be a victim or a víctor it's your God given choice. From my own experience I chose the latter and have been able to help people facing difficult situations in there life. Obviously there is evil in the world. I fight evil with good.
@@sergiozenon3306 I understand your point that abortion can be traumatizing either. But that was almost my case but luckily I didn't have to make that choice. That's why I asked what is your view in that situation. From my perspective me who was the victim, I would not be mentally able to keep that so glad I live in a country where I could be able to make that choice if that happened. Everybody is different so if someone is that somehow strong to keep and raise a child from that traumatizing event I'm okay with it. It's about that choice if a victim would want to continue pregnancy or not. You said that the fetus in a womb is innocent but that child or teen either and should be punished. And yes forced pregnancy is a punishment.
Go through childbirth or innocent human murdered
If a child wasn’t made in the image of god would you say the abortion is fine? If you know that you’re not a good parent and you put your child in a adoption agency and 12 years pass and in passing you find out the kid you wanted to abort is living a sad, lonely, unloved life your telling me you wouldn’t wish you spared them that pain. It’s cruel to just assume someone will definitely pick your kid when there are hundreds to choose from.
* Pro Life and pro murders.
A woman that made a bad choice getting pregnant out of wedlock .obviously is not capable of make a choice on the life or death of a child.what ever happened to responsibility,for your actions,maybe somebody should explain to these women where babies come from.Dont play,if you can't pay. In layman's terms,keep your legs shut until you find a decent man to marry you and start a good godly family.
These kind of arguments get nowhere with pro-choicers and for good reason. Most often, it is from making bad choices, but to leave it at that and leave out the times of which it isn’t like rape then causes your argument to be null and void in their eyes.
I hear what you ate saying,if a woman is raped,she should not have to have or raise that baby.If a child is horribly deformed,a,woman should not be made to have that baby,but sometimes a strange thing happens,that family that keeps that baby,end up with these great blessings,and have no regrets .but then there are the ones who just can't deal with that sort of thing,and they shouldn't have to,or if the chances of death to the mother because of the birth,The family should choose the mother of course. Because without the mother there wouldn't have been a baby.And the spirit of the child returns to God.
@@ricklamb772 I don’t disagree with you. In fact, I know how healing having that baby can be and feel there is almost never a time abortion should be the answer. My point isn’t to say abortion is ever ok. My point is to not use the argument of them making better choices as you always, always lose their attention, because a woman’s choice isn’t always responsible for the events leading to conception.
My body my choice
Not to happy that you choice a black woman who is pro choice at all
The topic wasn’t about race it was about abortion
He also didn’t choose the participants. Jubilee, the creator of the original video, did.
At the end of the day, you don't have a uterus. This is reality you will never have to face. Even if you were to get a women pregnant, you still would not have to make the same sacrifices as the woman. Therefore, you should not have a opinion on this matter. And since you seemed so passionate about this, then there are thousands of children in the fosters care system. So go adopt. It is free and you will be given government assistance to care for these kids.
Theres an estimated waiting list of 2 million people waiting for babies to adopt. Your adoption arguement is a lie. Imagine telling someone that they cant have an opinion on something because they are a woman, or they are black, or they are old, or whatever other reason besides "you dont have a uterus" and try to explain how its not racist or mysoginyst or whatever.
@@ccrow3355 there are over 200,000 kids in the foster care system right now. So these people that are on a waiting list to adopt a child just don't want to be bothered with a foster child because that their description of a perfect family.
@@ccrow3355 and yes I can say a man should not have opinion about what a woman should do with her body because he not the one who have sacrifice his time, money, education, and living situation. He can just shoot a load in someone and move on with his day. He is not going to be the one stuck with the consequences of his actions. You don't what a woman may be going through in her life that she might be faced that decision. Y'all want to stop abortion but don't want to come up with a solution. And it's funny how these men are pro life pro life until it affects them then all of sudden they are pro choice. And a lot of these wealthy Republicans that are trying make laws to stop abortions, they get abortions. But I guess that just a privileges only they want to have.
@@roseberry5253 You are the one that let him "shoot his load and move on". Pick better men. Take responsibility for your actions. You didnt take precautions to avoid pregnancy its your fault. People want babies not older kids, thats why there are 200000 kids in foster care. My point is still the truth, there is a waiting list for 2 million babies. Men are also responsible for child support for a child they create so you are wrong there too. Just because people are scumbag hypocrites doesnt make it ok for you to get an abortion and murder a child. You are 100% right about men wanting a woman to get an abortion to avoid responsibility for their child but you drew the wrong conclusion. You think you should beable to abort children when you should realize that men are using you and thats why they try to convince you abortion is ok. They want to have sex with you then dump you and leave you to deal with the fallout because they are selfish peices of crap and abortion allows them to get away with it easier.
@@ccrow3355 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 exactly. People are always treating men like second class citizens when it comes to parenthood in general. The man SHOULD have the right to place an opinion because that’s his child as well. The woman didn’t form the baby on her own. I honestly think it’s disgusting that society keeps suppressing men when it comes to these things. If you didn’t want the baby you shouldn’t be having sex. Honestly the only women who have the right to say “I didn’t want this” or “I wasn’t prepared” were women who were r*ped. Other than that there’s literally no excuse. If you are willingly having sex then you need to be willingly able to ACCEPT the consequences that come with that. Like Sex isn’t only for pleasure. If you aren’t ready to have a baby or face some consequences that do come from having sex then don’t have any.🤷🏾♀️
I’m a woman. Someone who can actually give birth (not a man). God is the only one who makes the rules and can judge anyone. Not anyone else. Especially not you. Sure there are rules in the Bible, like not wearing clothes of multiple threads or not cutting your hair. You could theoretically make up any rule you see fit. But it’s NOT YOUR PLACE HUN
I believe that if one parent object the kid should not be aborted.
Sweetheart you can’t tell someone they can’t have an opinion and voice it. It takes two to conceive, why can’t men have an opinion? Stop cherry picking the Bible to fit your flawed arguments. Hopefully you have matured a little this past year and understand you can’t ignore others opinions because they don’t fit your subjective rules. If you still believe a man can’t have an opinion on abortion than talk to a woman who holds the same opinion as him. Realize this is just a way to stop others from voicing an opinion. So many of those around today.
@@janettebiggs4550 men CAN have an opinion about something that AFFECTS women solely, but their opinions SHOULD NOT be held above those who actually experience these things. Men aren’t the ones that go through labour, men aren’t the ones that potentially lose their sense of smell, sight, hearing, taste or DIE while giving birth.
@@oluwatobi6415 tell that to the father that has his baby executed. That he cant have an opinion "held above those who experience these things" (like anyone does that).
God says to get your house in order before you judge others, not to never judge others. Hes saying dont be a hypocrite. If we couldnt judge people we would have to walk into a den of criminals and pretend like they arent about to mug us and kill us. It is our place to tell you, you are committing evil and that you should stop it. That is 100% our place. Just because you cant handle personal responsibility doesnt mean we should stand by and watch you commit evil.
This is very racially bias