Why Are These Red Things Still On Laptops?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Pointing sticks - or nub mice - are still a common sight on ThinkPads and other laptops. Why are they still around, and why does anyone use them over touchpads?
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One thing missed in this video is that the nub can be used with gloves on which works great in factory settings where you might not have room to put a mouse but need to access a computer.
This, i use it a lot, especially when I get my hands dirty (or sweaty)
or in winter conditions when gloves are a must and so is work out in the field.
That is literally the most important use case in todays market.
I love how the video completely misses the fact that some people use laptops...mobile, like, not glued to a desk. The touchpad is USELESS when not at a desk, but the nub still works great. We actually disable the touchpads on field computers because they cause too many accidental clicks when working with equipment.
This, this is why I love the nub, we use them in the military. When using gloves or when your hands and dirty the nub works. Long live the nub!!
There's also the missing part of this video: what got the keyboard greenlit at IBM in the pre-ThinkPad days was that an employee had a stroke and requested it specifically so they could continue to work. For certain people in certain companies, it's an ADA compliance issue to have the trackpoint!
Very good point, man.
That's quite an interesting fact, thanks for sharing.
It is not ADA compliant as the American with Disabilities Act has no mention of computers or laptops. Most people who have nerve damage in their fingers cannot use because of the pain caused in their fingers.
@@georgeworley6927 It makes mention of reasonable accommodation. In a previous position we had to issue laptops with them because for people with some types of nervous system issues - strokes, MS, and ALS were the ones that came up - it lets them use a computer effectively. We also had to supply the ThinkPad keyboards for the same reason.
@@jec6613I don't know where the law comes from as no where does the ADA specify what a laptop or desktop has to have or not have. I am disabled as I have 35 to 45 percent nerve damage in my feet and 30 to 40 percent nerve damage in my hands. This is commonly called Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathy. I have read the act multiple times. The nub on the ThinkPad is unusable for someone who cannot stand something digging into fingers.
Every thinkpad I’ve owned for the last 15 years has had the touchpad disabled entirely, trackpoint only. Scrolling is also very easy with a trackpoint and I like having physical buttons for left-, right- and middle-click.
The Trackpoint is the best with the right buttons...
There are darktimes with the clunkpad :C
@@Grey2k8 Sad t440p noises
@@lastmagmarian9116 Luckely i could change the Clunkpad in my X240 :D
I think you can use the T450/T550 in the T440p.
It’s the main reason I still buy Lenovo’s even though quality is worse than at IBM’s time
Based
I’m a thinkpad user and recently broke my dominant hand. Because my thumb was immobilized and also the splint getting in the way, I ended up using my left hand for mouse input. The trackpoint was significantly easier to get a hang of with my non-dominant hand than the trackpad and even the traditional mouse I use for my PC.
Sorry to hear, hopefully you have a good recovery, accessibility is great with the TrackPoint, another good reason for it.
When I broke my arm I learned how to use an Xbox controller with one hand and it was a struggle
I used to work for Lenovo. A huge credit to their design team because they always were extremely interested to talk with us salespeople and hear what customers thought. I told them to never kill the trackpoint no matter how many RUclipsrs crap on it. Customers love that thing but every time Alex or Linus review it they knock off points for it.
LTT is a great channel but when they don't understand something it shows A LOT.
Lenovo kinda sucks. It is Chinese owned. Framework laptop is much better. Next one I get will be that. Right now, I have a Microsoft Surface.
@@thatguyalex2835 I mean framework is a completely different type of laptop. They’re really cool, and I’ll probably get one someday, but for now I’m going with people that have made laptops and worked out the kinks for years. I prefer Dell and Lenovo, but Lenovo is my preference. The amount of care they put into longevity is insane.
Love my Thinkpad, that RAM runs my Sims soooo good with 120gb of cc and mods.
Is it good for penetration testing? Cybersecurity classes?
As someone who never used the nudge, I provided my share of laptops to users. They loved it, working out in the field with gloves on… It was amazing. We should celebrate this kind of innovation. It makes people happy and productive which in the end, is what computers should be all about…
Fun fact: The trackpoint design was created years before it was ever implemented in production, and just sat on the back shelf (so to speak) at IBM since the mid 80s. Ironically, the name of the project design effort was "Project Castaway". But the bureaucracy at IBM, when originally presented with the design, "cast it away" for a number of years before finally realizing it had an enthusiastic user base just waiting for it, after it was shown at a product demo.
I've been using nubs ever since I got myself my first laptop (trackpad wasn't a thing back then) and always preferred it to a trackpad. It's only after modern laptops ditch the nub that I have to adapt to using trackpads. But the nub was so much quicker and intuitive for me
I wish all laptops had nubs, it's just such a small but amazing feature that it wouldn't hurt for all laptops to have
*nub, not nudge
It's called the g-spot
How you know?😂
@@MaxMustermann-vy7ur he doesn't, so it seems.
Why do I know where it is then
Short for G/H/B-spot
Little man in the boat, if you can find it you're a better man than I am
I used a Thinkpad in the past and honestly I so frequently miss having my trackpoint. I genuinely don't understand why people hate it so much. As mentioned in the video, it's so so convenient to use the trackpoint to quickly fix a typo or move the cursor around without having to move my entire hand. It objectively requires significantly less movement and strength, which may sound trivial once or twice; but if you have to do it hundreds or thousands of times in a writing session, you'll be thankful that it's there, as many typists can attest to.
As of the learning curve issue, it's a one-time thing. Nobody is born "trackpoint-proficient", just like nobody is born "mouse-proficient" or "trackpad-proficient". Also IBM and later Lenovo has done an excellent job in maintaining consistent handling characteristics thoughout multiple generations of their trackpoint, so much so that I can be given a 15yo Thinkpad, and get comfortable with its trackpoint within a minute. I certainly cannot say the same regarding trackpads - even if you take sereval modern laptops, their trackpads' handling characteristics will still differ wildly.
Obviously there are benefits to trackpads, most notably considerably better accuracy when you need it. But that's the key, because most times you don't need to be pixel-perfect. Anyways, I don't see the trackpoint going away any time soon; TBH I even expect more manufacturers to start encorporating them as the related patents start expiring. It's simply very good for some jobs.
I know it's not a valid answer
But why not learn vim instead and be capable of even faster text editing shenanigans with just the keyboard
@@aravindpallippara1577 Not if you are doing rich text editing, which cannot be effectively done in vim.
@@NatPavasant yeah, i was talking more from the perspective of normal text - definitely I hate using word/writer when compared to just text files
@@aravindpallippara1577 I know that we, old folks, stay attached to our old tech, but really, it's time to move on from Vim.
people dislike it because they try it for 5 seconds and think it's difficult to use. once someone gets used to the fine touch style it's way faster and easier to use.
I don't really use the nub, but I adore the associated physical mouse buttons. It feels so much more natural and convenient to have them above the trackpad rather than bellow, and my particular thinkpad has a middle mouse button which is just so immensely useful that it's insane to me that it isn't standard on all laptops.
I have both the trackpad and the nub, so the two sets of buttons always throw me off XD
You don't use a finger on the touchpad and thumb on the buttons at the bottom? How do you use it? Stop pointing to move your hand to click?
I love scrolling with the trackpoint, gotta hold the middle trackpad button to get it to scroll, which feels kind of awkward at first, but god if it isn't great after you get used to it, you can move at whatever speed you want, unlike with mouse wheels or even trackpads which rely on a notion of "inertia" as you remove your fingers after a scrolling motion
@@techienate It's great for programming and it's great to use various CAD software and graphics design. You can easily zoom and pan while holding the physical right or middle mouse button, which is impossible on touchpads without the three physical keys.
I use it like this:
Left hand switches between:
-full on keyboard
-most left fingers on the keyboard Ctrl, Fn, Alt keys, and my index finger on the left mouse button of the nob
My right hand switches between:
-full on keyboard
-touchpads with thumb for more speed
-touchpads with index and middle fingers for more precision.
The main factor leading to my favoring of the "nub" (actually known as a "trackpoint") is that it is ideal for touch-typists. If you can type at 50+ words a minute (some doing twice that), having to reach over to a mouse *does* cause a significant hit to productivity. Trackpads are barely any better, and as you pointed out can be annoying.
False,the Touchpad is 100% fantastic I have it on my 7 year old Lenovo Laptop and it functions with no problems
@@stephensnell5707 what exactly is false? They made no claim about the touchpad not working... just being less convenient than a track point for people who do a lot of typing based tasks.
@@Dizzykitty817 False! I've been using an Elecom Huge trackball for a few months now and it is MUCH more convenient than a mouse at saving desk space.
@@jonzenrael
We aren't talking about mice.
I code. I must type, retype, google, copy and paste, and shift lines around. When you are doing these actions for hours at a time, moving your hands away from the keyboard to your mouse and then back gets tedious. With the track point, my hands never have to leave the keyboard home keys. ever. This allows me to get my work done faster and more comfortably than using the track pad.
I concede that a mouse is much more comfortable for other tasks, I have a small wireless mouse I use for navigating Unity for example, and that a trackball may be more advantageous in those situations. However, I have no experience with this. I know people who swear up and down by them, but for my current situation, it is more important for a mouse to slip in a pocket in my bag and be forgotten until I need it.
@@Dizzykitty817 r/woosh 😅
This just reminds me how superior the thinklight was to a backlit keyboard. Enough throw to light up documents, and personally it reduced eye-strain without needing to light up an entire room. Thing was cozy and useful and I want them to bring it back.
Give me a backlit kb anyday
@@boffyboydj that's not what he's saying lol
@@boffyboydj just learn touch typing already, you can use the keyboard basically blind.
I forgot that isn't a thing anymore. I touch type but it's cool to see documents in dark areas.
I wish it was a warmer white though, would be easier on the eyes
I had a thinkpad, and I vastly preferred the nub over the track pad. It's simpler just to travel the cursor across the screen, for instance, and it's far less finicky than a track pad. I personally have always hated the track pad and I always carry a mouse with me on nub-less laptops.
I recommend you try using any Macbook trackpad
@@Phambleton sounds much more expensive than just buying a mouse for better control.
@@Salmacream walk into any apple store, it's free to try ;)
@@Phambleton I got the trackpad on my MacBook, but prefer the HP Zbook G3 trackpad. A proper mouse is 10x better though.
How do you even left click with that thing?
One aspect you missed - accessibility! I’ve spoken to loads of people over the years that always get laptops with touch stick/accupoint/the nipple because they have a physical disability that means they can’t use a mouse or a touchpad. :)
I’m not disabled but I do suffer from some
minor carpal tunnel issue and the nub is easier on my hand some days then a mouse
One advantage with a trackpoint I found is when using a laptop on ones lap, as the trackpad tends to be too close for comfortable access in that position. This is quite useful when working in airports, etc.
Yes !! 🤣
If it's on my lap and I need to use the touchpad I use my thumb
@@KaitouKaiju It is not a must have feature. But if you already have a laptop with a trackpoint, it is more comfortable on the lap than using a touchpad.
There's even ads from the '90s where they showcase this, showing executives uncomfortably working on their various types of laptops in the tight space of an airplane, with the ThinkPad guy just breezing with his laptop
The reason the trackpoint is so unknown is because most conputer users don't really know how to touch type. For those of us that do know touch type, though, it's actually really handy and a lot less distracting when you don't have to take your fingers off of home row to reach for a mouse or trackpad
Also because consumer laptops don't have a trackpoint so most users (who tend to buy the cheaper consumer laptops) have no idea about it.
Oh my goodness! I feel like I'm seeing a large quantity of people for the first time coming out and saying they like the Trackpoint! That makes me so happy because I love it and every time I bring it up people are confused on why I like it so much. Like wanting to keep both hands on the keyboard at all time is a bad thing. I do understand that track pads have gotten larger and it's easier to use with your thumb but it just feels to me like a compromise. Anyway, evidently there are dozens of us and that's awesome. I hope Dell brings it back to the Latitude series!
NOTHING can touch the Trackpoint, in the hands of an experienced user.
Majority of people don't care but those who DO are VERY passionate enough to speak up here. While I don't use it like I did back in the day, I prefer my MX Mouse 3 or really any mouse, if I have to use a laptop without a mouse handy, I have ThinkPads for both work and personally, the nub it is over touchpads.
I got to try the trackpoint on couple laptops, and I prefered it better than touchpad, especially when you have to move the cursor from one to another side of the screen.
I miss my trackpoint so much! Big thing for me was zero wrist fatigue. And being able to move the mouse while typing was so cool. Made playing online games easier. And was precise enough to do video or music editing. I wish there was a standalone nub you could get
@@michaelroby8022 Totally agree, Michael.
I wouldn't buy a laptop without the "nipple", it's much better than using touchscreen or a trackpad, so much that I've disabled mine and only use the nipple. Outside of gaming, it can comfortably replace the functions of a mouse. It's a huge advantage when it comes to portability. I refuse to use anything other than thinkpads for this reason, thinkpad masterrace!
while it's much better than touchpad, to the point of actually being usable, it's still far from being comfortable and able to replace a mouse
I had a classmate in my apprenticeship who played Doom and Unreal Tournament 2004 on his Thinkpad using only the TrackPoint
I wouldn't buy a laptop without the track point. +1
When I bought my Thinkpad a decade ago, this was one of the reasons I chose it. The trackpad is just too easy for me to hit while typing. I've got a chromebook that hasn't got it, but that was because I needed a cheap backup computer for when my main computer went down and I could attach a mouse to it and disable the trackpad.
Wish I could buy a laptop without either. I hate both. I did like the idea of a trackball on some ThinkPads however didn't like the implementation.
The nub is also present on all army laptops because you can use it whit gloves
The Trackpoint is awesome, make sure to disable pointer acceleration, use maximum pointer speed and use a gentle touch for maximum speed and efficiency.
I can actially use both my right and left index finger with the Trackpoint, and that is very useful when I attach my drawing tablet when I do photo editing. I can limit the drawing area to the canvas only to draw on with my right hand and use the Trackpoint to navigate the GUI with my left hand finger if I need to.
I've had several laptops with these, and like many other commenters here I love them. Mice are peak, when you have the space for one, but the nub has always been much easier for me to use than a trackpad.
Those are my favorite features on a laptop. ThinkPads are the best brand enterprise laptops in my experience as an IT technician. Index finger on the nub, thumb on the mouse button.Your hand hovers over the keyboard for quick brief typing. This is very ideal for users who really analyze and review things on screen making quick short actions and decisions. People who are able to perform tasks with less effort. In the Financial Industry that's usually VP/AVPs, and Managers. T420, T420s, T450, etc.
I definitely recommend their small business laptops for personal use. They're generally well built, but not necessarily that expensive either. I loved mine until it was ultimately killed by dirty power input when charging.
The nub is far superior to the touch pad in nearly every way.
The only time the touch pad is better is if it supports programmable Multitouch gestures.
All modern touchpads support two finger scrolling which is one of those features which are too damn handy
@@aravindpallippara1577 nub supported scrolling too with the middle button click. But now with all the newest gestures with touchpad, I am finding myself using it more.
@Evi1 M4chine honestly, I hate touchscreens on anything to big to be handheld. Actually, no, I just hate touchscreen, but I accept that I'm the only person who still wishes they made smartphones with slide out keyboards.
At least my phone is small enough, and gorilla glass is tough enough that I can clean the display by just wiping it on my pant leg.
If I had a touch screen monitor without some kind of mouse, I'd be going through so much glass cleaner it would be an ecological disaster.
@@iwontliveinfear Sounds like you need the Cosmo Astro Slide. (typed on my physical keyboarded smartphone 😉)
I swear by those nubs. I turn off the touchpad on my ThinkPads just to exclusively use it. Heck, I made my choice of mechanical keyboard, the Tex Shinobi, specifically because it has the TrackPoint and uses the classic ThinkPad keyboard layout.
Sorry, are you me? I love my Shinobis and have been Team Nub from my very first laptop, an A31.
Let me ask you about the Tex Shinobi: how pleasant is it to use? For context, I had Thinkpad R400 for the longest time, which has the classical ThinkPad keyboard and now I have a T480s which has a more modern chicklet design keyboard.
Is the Tex Shinobi comparable to any of those, or is does it feel completely different? I'm used to the short travel of laptop keyboads and I worry that the (presumably) longer travel of the mechanical keyboard would be too different. And finally, what type of switches would be the most similar to the laptom keyboard, if any?
@@jenda386 It feels very different from a laptop but in a good way. I use Cherry Brown switches but if you're worried about noise, there are Silent Red ones. I personally recommend going to a Best Buy that has mechanical keyboard switches you can try out. Can't say which is the most similar to a laptop one.
They don't suffer from drift. They constantly recalibrate their neutral position, so if you hold still too long while moving in one direction, eventually the mouse will stop. Let go, and it'll move backwards a bit because it now thinks it's being pushed the other direction. After a second or two, it stops again. This is really easy to work around, either scroll in bursts, or just let go and let it fix itself every now and again.
The learning curve may be a little steep, but among people I know who use thinkpads, there's no going back once you get used to it. So long as you adjust the acceleration to your preferences, it's just as precise as a trackpad. I'd argue it's actually easier, and more comfortable than using a trackpad.
BTW, I just noticed my still IBM branded pre-Win-Key external keyboard's nub doesn't backdrift more than a couple of pixels even if I push it into a screen corner for 5 seconds. I do remember the drifting issues when moving across the screen from earlier laptops, so it seems they fixed that some time a dozen years ago.
PS: On an unrelated note, I love that I can move my mouse pointer pixel by pixel even on a 4k screen.
I had a few ThinkPads and I absolutely loved the TrackPoint. It was so much easier than the touchpad in my opinion. I wish more modern laptops still had them.
I so miss my dot! That thing was so great. After you got used to using it, it was to me much more useful than a trackpad by itself.
i used it to aim while playing CS 1.6 on the school laptops back in the day!
I must say that i got quite proficient with it, and therefore scrubbing the floor with my friends that opted to use the touchpads!
@TwinTurbo Ray If I still used a laptop you know I'd have it!
3:15 I'd pay $200 for a full sized version of the Lenovo Trackpoint II keyboard, especially if it supported wired only mode in addition to Bluetooth and dongle mode switching.
I could switch between wired to my desktop, to a dongle in my Mac Mini, to Bluetooth on my tablet/phone.
Throw in some mechanical keys and backlighting and thats my perfect computer HID
The old ThinkPad keyboards were more desktop-esque, and I really liked that. Wish they still did that...
Tex shinobi is a mechanical keyboard that licensed a track point
@@tassadarforaiur another option is the unicomp endura pro, or if you have the budget and PS/2 port, the IBM model M13.
Shut up and take my money!!!
@@user-le8ul4nr5t Was going to mention Unicomp -- who has the nub in _their_ logo too! Though unfortunately they're not selling the EnduraPro at the moment due to supplier issues. 🙁
(I use their New Model M keyboard -- and was using their Ultra Classic before an accident disabled some of its keys.)
I have a ThinkPad, and in my experience with it, it depends on my posture or task. I use the trackpad primarily, but for example, if I'm laying down with my laptop over my lap I usually prefer the TrackPoint, or if I'm scrolling in a long text document or a long webpage, I like to use it with the middle button pressed. Also when very precise movements of the mouse are required.
In short, I like to use both. And I like the option to choose since it doesn't interfere with your typing.
I strongly dislike my trackpad on my ThinkPad. The TrackPoint will always reign superior. I love the little eraser head! It works great when I’m working with gloves or sitting in an awkward position.
I have 7 ThinkPads, and despite their gradual quality decline since the early 2010s, they’re all I will ever consider for a laptop because of the Keyboard and Trackpoint combo.
Likewise. My father was eventually worn over by Apple's touchpad, and so when I was issued a new Macbook Pro for work I decided I would try to take the time to get used to it instead. I tried for months, but eventually found that it was so infuriating that I was routinely refusing to use the laptop directly and instead connecting to it via Screen Sharing from my Thinkpad. I ended up getting one of those standalone keyboards mentioned in this video and velcroing it to the Macbook for regular use, because otherwise it was just too exasperating to use. And that's ostensibly the "best of the best" of touchpads...
1. Convenient extra input
2. Gloves required for job
(Also it doesn't actually move at all, it's solid state)
older ones actually move a bit
Earlier touchpads were inferior to the trackpoint, but that's changed over the years. For my work Thinkpad, if I'm out and about, I actually don't have much of a choice but to use the trackpoint, only because my touchpad has been erratic to the point where I've had to disable it.
Plus, I've always found the more deliberate and precise movements from trackpoint works in certain situations.
"Since this is a family show we're going to refer to it as a nub"
Literally ever LTT monitor video: "And here we have a navigation NIPPLE"
This input device was THE BEST thing that happened to the laptops. I used it for over 10 years on my T42 and I absolutely loved it. I hate touch pad in laptops and after all the years i still can't be productive with it. I really hope it will live on. HP tried to copy the design with their blue nub but works like crap comparing to ThikPad.
For me the trackpoint nub was instantaneously more intuitive to use than a touch pad or track ball. It felt like the cursor just went where I thought about instead of having to pick up my finger two or three times to move it across the screen. Also just being able to leave my finger on the nub and click the left mouse button with my thumb just feels much more natural. I don't know what it is, but with touch pads I sometimes move the cursor off of what I'm pointing at when I try to click. A mouse on a desktop is better, but for a laptop, I don't think I'll ever buy one that doesn't have a nub as long as they continue to be available. I hate touch pads.
well comrade, I use the trackpoint even with desktops. I bought 2 keyboards with trackpoint and they are awesome. Lenovo's are always the best because they obviously have the original research and the most experience but other trackpoints are also very good to use.
This video definitely wasn't written by someone who has done a lot of coding. When you code it's an absolute blessing if you have to use a mouse as little as possible since it actually wastes quite a lot of time to switch between mice and keyboards. Maybe it is 0.6 seconds but now do that about a thousand times each day and you can clearly see the advantage of not having to move your hands - needless to say it's much more ergonomic this way.
I think most power users of any discipline are like that. You can only hit 4 spots on the monitor with a mouse without looking, 5 if you include where the mouse is right now. A standard keyboard allows for hundreds of keystrokes to be chosen from between the keys and the keys+modifer. As somebody who grew up with computers from the '80s and '90s, I've always resented the way that the mouse has become ever more intrustive. I flat out refused to play FPS games after they went to keyboard+mouse for years.
Thanks to CLI OSes, I can type near 100 wpm, even when I'm tired, I cant copy what I'm seeing at over 70wpm with over 99% accuracy.
The mouse was a decent enough innovation 60ish years ago, but it doesn't really do anything very well. It lacks the touch feedback that you get from a keyboard, and the precision of a graphic tablet. It works alright for web browsing, but only because web browsers were built with it in mind, and it doesn't do any better than a tablet would.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Absolutely. Don't get me wrong: The mouse has its uses, just like a graphics tablet it is a tool, a tool that has it's very own niche of applications in which it is useful. But that niche is mostly reserved for the average consumer market.
If you dive into the kind of market where you actually get more specialized (as is the case with software engineers and programmers) the application of a mouse makes less and less sense. With an IDE like Neovim I bet my left testicle that I am 3x as fast as VSCode users in navigating and editing my code. But there are some fringe application for which a mouse can still come in handy, if I don't have to move my hands away from my keyboard to use it then this makes the little rubber stub a perfectly suitable replacement.
I code and I don't even use the mouse. Get yourself a copy of VS Code and make generous use of "when" context clauses. That was a genius invention. It's like operator overloading but for your editor/IDE. I operator-overload so much, I don't even use the Alt key at all, or the Windows key, or any weird combinations like Ctrl + Shift + whatever. I only use Ctrl + whatever. I've re-mapped my Alt keys in the registry to Ctrl, so I can hit my Ctrl + whatever shortcuts a lot more easily. You can also use Autohotkey to achieve similar context-based results outside VS Code.
I even played Minecraft with that thing. It is awesome and makes you even faster when programming. I also like the three separate buttons for the mouse and the easy scrolling with the middle button pressed down. I usually disable the touchpad completely directly in the BIOS.
I liked thinkpads that had the nub. It's easier to drag and drop, scroll through lengthy documents, or even play some casual games with it. Best of all, if you disable the track pad, you don't have to deal with finicky palm rejection or awkwardly try to avoid the track pad.
Or just use a mouse. That's what I normally do.
I had a Lenovo x220 (picked up for free) and I LOVED using the nub. So long as they're not smashed around, they stay accurate and complimented the trackpad - one could be configured for quick cursor movements and the other for fine control. I just wish they kept that classic keyboard/key design (anyone who's used the earlier models knows what I mean!)
I’ve used Thinkpads for 15 years because of the Trackpoints. Simply the best pointing device ever.
I am a nubster. Touchpads have always been finicky for me. And you're right, most of my laptop duties are text-based.
100% agree
Same, I do prefer the nub, however some trackpads on higher end devices i.e MacBooks, Dell XPS are really nice to use as well. Other than that, having a mouse is always ideal.
I'll be honest... I always proffered that over a trackpad. I remember learning about it in the first tech expo I ever visited as a kid (sounds like it was a new thing back then) and loving it ever since then. It actually felt intuitive and for some reason I don't like using the touch trackpads and would rather use a mouse intead
Preferred
More importantly is why are they not on EVERY laptop?
The keyboard with a nub was the perfect solution when I started having wrist pain using a mouse 10 hours a day. I still used a normal mouse too, but the alternative hand position with the nub meant much less time using the mouse which was all I needed.
The nub is easily the best pointing device for me. Amazingly practical. It makes zero sense why anyone would use anything else if you actually type a lot. Without keyboard shortcuts it requires the least amount of movement and minimizes context switching. Any xkcd fans will surely know those little moments add up quickly. Saves me time and my wrists for sure. I can't image a keyboard without it. My external keyboards all have them.
I despise laptops but the handful of times I used the nub, I liked it. Considering how hit and miss touchpads are, I would definitely be using the nub when available.
We had thinkpads issued to us in high school and the nub is SO much better than the trackpad. Everything from scrolling to navigation is much easier. My only issue with them is that the default one is convex. Our IT department had concave nubs that made using it WAY easier. I miss that thing
Replacement nub caps are available that are concave.
Text editing, but also spreadsheets. Scrolling is super easy in Excel just by holding the center button and pushing the "nub" in the desired direction.
I wish it would be on more laptops. I absolutely love using the nub on my old ThinkPad and it was sooo much more intuitive than the trackpad!
I use a ThinkPad as my main laptop. One for work and one for personal use I bought by myself. I love the trackpoint.
How is it more intuitive, tho? You overshoot, undershoot, or slowly drag the cursor to where you want it to be like a grandma figuring out a computer mouse. I'd choose a trackpad/mouse over a nub any day of the week
2:51 Who uses a laptop *without* typing and editing text? I have been using Thinkpads with trackpoint mouses for about 20 years. Trackpoint mouses are much, much better than trying to use a touchpad. I usually just disable the touchpads on my laptops because I rarely use them and as you point out, they just get in the way.
I used the pointing stick (touchstick) from the get go. Below the button itself there is an array of pressure sensors which translate the pressure and its direction applied with the fingertip, in meaningful pointer movements. These sensors are all integrated in a dedicated MEM chip on the keyboard PCB - which isn't expensive at all.
Once you learn to use the touchstick, it becomes a second nature, and you shun the touchpad entirely.
The reason why the touchstick is still on many laptops, is because many people use it instead of the touchpad. It relieves the pain in the back of your hand which begin after using the touchpad after one hour or so with a CAD application. You criticise the trackpoint because you don't use AutoCAD on your laptop...
Yeah, it's a decent step towards a 3D mouse (which in the case of autocad would mean $250 at a minimum due to space mouse being the only functionally integrated one)
I missed having this on laptops, and I despise the touchpad on mine. Wondering how useful it would be in a gaming situation
Used to game on a lenovo thinkpad cause that's what I had for college. The red nipple is terrible for gaming. Trust me lol.
Tycoon games and turn based it might be usable but i dont think it'll be good for games
Played through Just cause 3 exclusively with one, it's actually pretty good.
@@ryan7050 Only in RTS it is acceptable...
@@j0os man you must hate yourself😂
my primary work notebook is a thinpad x1 carbon and it's absolutely FANTASTIC! the trackpoint (which is lenovo's branding for the "nub") is a significantly better, quicker, more efficient option for very simple clicking on options and highlighting and moving text around while text editing, especially if i'm using the terminal or a text editor (I'm an it consultant and spending time on the terminal happens fairly often), for us people who actually type correctly and return to the home row (more or less) after each stroke, it only takes a quarter inch movement of my index finger from the j key to the trackpoint and back, and about a quarter inch movement of my thumb to reach any of the 3 mouse buttons designed for use with the trackpoint. Also, i'll point out that I personally find it very helpful to have the middle click button that's straight up missing from the trackpad (though i think there's a gesture for that, i never learned it because there's a dedicated button for it). I use the middle click button *very* often for clicking on links in browsers to open in a background tab for looking at when i'm done with the current page. (even if i'm using the trackpad, i usually go up to the trackpoint-intended middle click button for this function).
My favorite keyboard of all time is the IBM model M keyboard (I use one full-time on my desk at home), and I know that there is a trackpoint-enabled variant that was released a long time ago that I thought I might try to get my hands on at some point so I don't have to keep reaching over for my mouse while i'm doing intense keyboarding, but I haven't gotten there yet.
how do you scroll if you set the middle button to middle click?
@@jdally9872 middle click and scroll are the same functionality depending on context. (if you hover over a link and click it, it opens a tab in the background, if you just press it hovering over some text or in the middle of nothing, it scrolls... just like a mouse.
0:19 who want to help me figure out these names?
I can see:
1. ROBERT WAS HERE?
2. GREEN JELLY?
3. SPOONS?
4. JIBBERISH?
5. SOMETHING MOUSE?
6. APPLE MOUSE?
I think you got most of them right. 5. is Something movie and not mouse. '.' ',' hotkeys for frame by frame
That cat @2:54 is faster than me at data entry.
I personally prefer the nub to the touch pad. It’s quite frustrating that sometimes you have to swipe repeatedly if you want the cursor to move say from the bottom left to the top right, the touch pad is just not big enough. It’s more troublesome when you want to drag stuff. These problems doesn’t exist in the nub, and accuracy isn’t an issue once you get used to the sensitivity of the nub you use, and that doesn’t take very long.
I actually liked it. Better then the touchpad for me
same
same, I miss it. much more accurate than touchpad
Just for your information: I disliked all 3 of your comments
@@osman505 just for your information 3 of us never asked for your response
@@osman505 who asked?
Honestly, I think the nub is the most satisfying pointing device out there. Don't get me wrong, these things are absolutely horrible for gaming n' stuff, but once you get used to this method of input, I think it's just a fabulous feeling. Sadly, I don't own any modern devices that have it, but I do sometimes fire up my mom's old Latitude C640 just to experience that knob again.
The trackpad is horrible for gaming, also. At that point just get a normal mouse. :p
I love the TrackPoint! I used one on a school laptop and missed not having it on my personal laptop. Would love one on a full sized or split ergo keyboard.
I love the nub. I haven't used it since owning my first laptop, the Latitude D600, but from what I remember, it was very convenient.
Trackpoint is one of my criteria when choosing a laptop. Along with expandability and repairability
yes!! is also why my options on mechanical keyboards are limited.
I love the nub. I don't really need them for work , I find them much faster and convenient than using the touch pad just as you said I don't have to move my hand all the way to the touch pad and breaking my work flow for a few seconds. It feels more accurate not less to me because I don't have to micromanage or swipe a lot to go to a specific area to click. I can apply more pressure to move faster without lifting my hand to swipe the whole area again just to reach the area I want to click, increasing sensitivity will make that less of a problem sure, but now I have a harder time clicking small boxes and have to reposition the mouse often where as with the nub I can just lift my finger a little to apply less force and be more accurate.
You can use your thumb on the trackpad, you don't need to lift your hands
I got my first ThinkPad recently, and I have been loving the nubs. I can use it for a full day without any problems. The same can't be said for Mac touchpad, which makes my finger feel like peeling off after a full day of usage.
I always brought my mouse when I was using a Mac. I don't for my ThinkPad.
@@BFF.Studios Yes that's what I originally wrote.
Damn, I found Mac touchpads to be the best in existence. Literally. Only thing is, you have to press to left click on macOS, but I always disable that, and enable just a tap to left click.
@@aakarsh12 Mac is the best touchpad to use -- no argument there. Just that its finish make my finger really irritating after long use.
I actually love those nubs
growing up, we had the trackpoint on our school computers in the 90's. i cant find anything quite like the ones from the old windows XP era. the nubs were not rubber but more like a hard felt, and stuck up from the keyboard more than the modern ones allowing a bit more control, or even 2 finger use. never drifted or had any problems clicking with them.
I use the portable Thinkpad Keyboard for my desktop PC. It makes it easy changing from laptop to desktops - since it is exactly same layout, it takes less space on the desk. I love it
I love the pointing device on the Thinkpad. I prefer it a lot over the trackpad. I never have to move my hands or fingers from the keyboard, can navigate with the pointing device, and click with my thumbs. I feel like trackpads are just kind of novice.
Hey, the nub is awesome. Though you really need IBM's/Lenovo's implementation for it to be truly effective. (It has an extra button for scrolling.) When I used to travel for work, my trusty laptop was an IBM X60. (Prior to the buyout by Lenovo.) I never needed a mouse because I was totally comfortable using it. Handy when you need to type-out field reports at the end of the day on your subway or bus ride back to the hotel.
I actually like "weird" button positions on Thinkpad laptops and the "red lego piece stuck on keyboard". I use them all the time
yeah, they make for a narrow keyboard that isn't stripped of functionality
I still can't believe these aren't more popular, I only buy ThinkPads for work and still cannot understand the appeal of touchpads, which have zero feedback and are a lot harder to use while moving around a building. They just feel so much faster.
Trackpoint is so comfortable for me that i never use touchpad or mouse, with the dynamic acceleration it feels so natural to move when you learn it, your hand never moves from the keyboard, and if you use linux, middle button is second copy buffer, you will never realize the advantages until you start to use it!
Last but not least - in Linux, combining middle button hold with trackpoint up and down is a scroll, think about it - infinite scroll with variable speed.
Just to mention that some HP's also have trackpoint, but they didn't have middle button, only left and right.
Honestly, I always thought they're great. The fact that it's about force and not finger movement, means that you can change direction super fast and with less fatigue. You get used to the accuracy needed. More force => more speed. Seems like the brain can get used to it and you start to move the cursor exactly how fast you want it to
Yep I really like the knob because I work as an IT on the road repair technician and sometimes you can just disable the touchpas and use the knob as a mouse because it also requires less arm space. You do everything in your car I personally have an SUV with a lot more space but I had a car last year and it was atrocious to move my arms in there so staying put while writing in a ticket was key to not feeling sore at the end of the day
I call it TrackPoint because that's what Synaptics called it.
And on the IBM ThinkPad R52, it was way better than the touchpad for playing Quake 3
I wish consumer laptops had that option as it's pretty useful.
Playing Quake 3 without a mouse. Now there's a use case.
I have a ultimate hacking keyboard with a track point, nub, module. Absolutely love it. When you just need to move lines or do one small thing, which is often in work, it’s great just to use your thumb and not move
As a "Nubster": I have a ROG computer at home with gaming keyboards and mouse; however, I attach and bring out the standalone Thinkpad keyboard (with the nub) whenever I know I will be simply working/browsing the internet. My previous workplace has somehow trained me to possess a muscle memory of sorts whenever I open excel/word/powerpoint: I immediately reach for the middle of the keyboard to find the nub and start inputting those formulas or putting together a deck.
Sure there's a learning curve to the nub, yet, once you're able to pass that learning curve you'll quickly realize the efficiency increase with the combination of nub + trackpad!
I love the TrackPoint, it keeps my hands on the keyboard. It's also surprisingly okay for gaming, much better than trackpad gaming. Unfortunately, the Framework laptop doesn't have one which sucks because it looks really tasty.
go to the framework forums and bump the nub thread again. lots of requests for this feature so it's a possibility. they said it wouldn't fit in the current model.
its not just the nub. those buttons right under the spacebar are super clutch, i wish everyone could experience opening and closing lots of tabs by moving the nub and using that middle click button right under the spacebar.
i use both trackpoint and touchpad on my thinkpad, depends on context. a lot of time im editing code and just need to move cursor quickly to a different spot, and im in an editor without vim bindings. if im scrolling a long website tho ill typically use the trackpad or the touchscreen
I buy Lenovo X1's because they're awesome AND because of the nubbin. I use it over the trackpad on any device that has it
I've bought my first ThinkPad less than a month ago and already using the trackpoint is in my muscle memory, whenever I try to use my gaming laptop (which is also from Lenovo!) I instinctively go for the "nub" and it's so frustrating because it's not there
I agree, I wanted to get another laptop that is not a thinkpad and I just hate not having the nub. The other thing is if I have the laptop close to me like on my lap, it is so much easier to use the nub than the trackpad.
Here on the ER we use these thinkpads and the trackpoint all the time. The laptops are covered in a sort of plastic foil so they don’t get dirty, the trackpoint works even with foil over it or with gloves on, the trackpad just doesn’t work like that
The times I have accidentally used the Nub exceeds the times I accidentally used the trackpad by far. Also you can disable your trackpad on the fly, while the Nub requires BIOS Configuration to turn off. I know that because I did with every Thinkpad I ever had to work with 😂
Far superior to touch pad for most uses.
1000000% agree touch pads are stupid
I have always seen the nub as a staple on the ThinkPad, and it makes sense as to why it’s not a wider spread option. Personally, I’ve never really used the nub, but then, I’ve always seen the ThinkPad as a laptop designed for data-entry type work.
My first ever laptop was a thinkpad, and actually got confused when I had to use a different laptop without a nub. I still dominantly prefer the nub insted of the trackpad.
03:05 that's why my laptop has a button to deactivate the pad, so it won't disturb me while writing notes
I love the Thinkpad nipple
Used to play Minecraft on that nub, both because I couldn't move the cursor with the track pad while pressing down on keys, but also because it ends up being much better for gaming (like some form of smaller, more advanced joystick) and it allowed me to have one finger on the nub, and 9 other fingers on the keyboard, being able to press so many more buttons than on a normal setup! Sadly, because it's not that precise nor fast, other than some fun challenge it really isn't recommendable. Would also have pain in my index finger after multiple hours of gaming.
I wish more laptops had trackpoints. I loved it, even for (light) gaming on the go!
I wish Framework had it.
@@smorrow big agree
I remember being a kid and accidentally brushing the nub. After that I always used it instead of the trackpad. It's like a fidget toy and a mouse in one.
Finally got to touch one this year on my aunt's work laptop. Didn't expect it to be squishy. 9/10 I want a Framework keyboard with it.
Touch pads are pretty good at this stage. If I have a mouse and touch pad, I'll alternate depending on the task. I usually use the nub as part of that alternating system. I love it, but it does take lowest priority
Almost like it is an inferior mouse for most tasks, it has its strengths and honesty it should not cost much to be there but if you aren't wearing gloves, and you have space, or you know have more than one megabyte of free memory in your brain and have learned gestures (multifinger scroll is 4x faster than what a nub can do) the main reason it still exists at all is because people who have valuable skill sets refuse to let it die. There I said it
I use the trackpoint on my Thinkpads with my middle finger and I can be way more precise when pointing with my middle finger than my index. Probably because on a daily basis I use my middle finger way more often lol
Also a point that was missed the trackpoint can be used to click which is a huge advantage. Also the dedicated trackpoint mouse buttons above the touchpad make trackpoint use way more efficient. For years I have disabled touchpads on my laptops and used only trackpoints, for browsing, coding, emails...etc.
Using the trackpoint with your middle finger is called the Fuck Macbooks salute
Keep it PG folks 🤣
This little thingy was very fast and precise in my experience. Much more so than touchpad.
The only reason I stopped using it was because my pointing finger got repetitive stress pain...
I work for the gas board in the UK and we have these on our ThinkPads. It's the best thing ever for me when I'm having to use it in the field. I've got used to it so much so that I never ever use the touch pad.
I liked these things, I got the hang of it very quickly and found them pleasant to use sometimes.
Tbh, I’d want to see these on something like a alternative game controller because I feel like some people could use them well in games. It feels nicer and easier to use than a joystick to me often.
On a side note, we always called it “the keyboard cl*toris” and made lots of jokes about it.
The new 3ds xl has one
1
Nice
2
Like i am 3 min ago and evry one else is like 2 min
I love the nub when I rocked a Thinkpad T20 as my EDC machine. Between the laptop and the power brick (the battery run time is measured in minutes not hours) the last think I need is to schlep an external mouse. The nub is really fast for working on documents and spreadsheet, and for years I refused to buy a laptop that doesn’t have a nub, until I developed tendinitis in my index finger joint. Pushing the nub with a gimpy finger was painful and slow. That’s when I abandoned PCs completely for a MacBook & it’s multitouch track pad.
I’d like to add in odd-weather environments, the nub is much more reliable than a trackpad. I’ve come to love it over the summer months of outdoor testing
I once made a whole playthrough of Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos in the backseat of my parents car while we were driving to our place to stay for vacation using a Dell laptop with “the nub”. It was totally playable which still amazes me 12 years later.