Replacing a bad ISA slot
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2024
- My favorite 286 motherboard has a bad ISA slot that has burned me already. (Figuratively, I thought the computer wasn't working when I inserted a video card into the bad slot.)
So it's time for me to try changing out an ISA slot and see how hard this really is!
-- Video Links
Adrian's Digital Basement Merch store:
my-store-c82bd...
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
Adrian's Digital Basement (Main Channel)
/ @adriansdigitalbasement
My GitHub repository:
github.com/mis...
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.co...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/i...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.co...
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/i...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfrei...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/i...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/i...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
Probably you're the only person to have seen the copyright notice on any of these boards for decades
I find that if I hold the de-soldering iron on there a little bit longer before pushing the button, it allows the solder to melt all the way through and I get better results.
This does run the risk of damaging the FR4 board substrate or lifting pads, but only if you're like me and you hold the heat far too long. I have burned boards doing this out of frustration.
Wiggle it around the pin a little bit to make sure the pin is centred before sucking it up, that way it cleans the hole rather than leaving the pin sticking to the sides. Works best with a powered desolder pump rather than the manual pump.
Yeah, when I was doing this sort of thing for a job back in the dim, dark 00's it was, "apply tool, wait 2 seconds, pull trigger, wiggle gun, lather rinse repeat"
Thanks. This opened my eyes to needing a desoldering iron. I'm just a very casual electronics hobbyist but on occasion I've used one of those spring loaded pumps and it gets stupidly infuriating pretty quick.
they're fantastic - one of my best purchases for ages!
What kind did you have? I use an EDSYN Solda-Pullit - it's big enough that it becomes second nature to have the iron in your dominant hand and the extractor in the other, then use the heel of your dominant hand to re-load the extractor. It's been our experience that desoldering irons clog quickly, so we just stick with older tech at my work.
@@Renville80 those are apparently the only ones that don't suck (or maybe do suck?) but there are HUUUUUUUGE numbers of clones out there (and the other design which is also crap) which are as far as I've heard utter garbage.
I use a manual desoldering tool and remove quite a few ISA slots, it's do-able but you've gotta have a good iron that can show its power usage or a timer. The power lines especially the 5v and ground lines take a lot longer to heat up since they're on internal layers of the mainboard. If I was to use a powered desoldering tool it'd have to be one of those metcal ones like mend it mark uses, that thing seems awesome.
But my £15 abeco flexivac desolders pretty much all through hole stuff with some practice
I did something similar when I wanted to add the 16 bit extensions to the ISA slots on my Amiga 2000. I clamped the dead pc mobo into a bench vise and heated the solder side with an electric heat gun. I grabbed the sockets with a pair of vise grips, but I put a piece of PCB cut off from a dead ISA card into the socket. That keeps the vise grips from deforming the socket while you pull it out. The socket came out fairly clean. For grins I pulled out a lot of dip chips the same way.
It's great that you are taking such good care of this mainboard! I also feel it's worth it. I have done some work on my own designs and always need these ISA slots, so I have a lot of experience desoldering these to transfer the slot connectors from other PCBs. The best way to keep the ISA slot in original condition is really to do it the hard way: use the Hakko and simply desolder all the pins, and then use the hot air gun from the solder side to gently warm the ISA slot until it comes loose. Usually I use some angled tip pliers to hold the slot which protects my hands from the heat so I can make sure to heat it long enough. This method produces very clean condition slot connectors. I have desoldered some of the slot connectors on prototypes even up to as much as 4 times, so this method for me is really tried and tested. Using the brute force heating method also will work, however this may damage the plastics because they may start to warp. It's just risky and not ideal. These old ISA slots are really the best and highest quality, and by far better than anything you can buy new today, especially from Aliexpress. I wish those chip recyclers also would have recycled all those ISA slot connectors, I would love to buy those!
That reminds me of when I replaced a dual simm socket on my 386 board in 92/93.
I just had a 22W soldering iron, a manual suction pump and solder wick.
I recently invested in a Hakko desoldering iron, holy cow it’s a dream. I do not miss ye olden times.
been there, done that. tedious work
8:14 Michael MJD BG music mmmmm
Nicely done!
I think, given the sound track, we need to call this Adrian's Digital Basement Lounge. 💟
Using a video card to test the repaired slot is a great idea because it used both I/O and Memory control signals. Next I would suggest testing a RAM expansion card in the slot. You want to test as many address lines as possible.
Hi Adrian, Great job you did with the motherboard. Nice that it works again. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Doskonała robota, Adrianku! 🍻
You know about low temp solder? It is a simple product that melt at a lower temp than normal 60/40 solder found on those era MB. It can lower the melting point to lower than 300 degree F. It is more brittle, so not very good for final soldering. But it will help a lot if trying to remove a large part on a multi layer PCB. You just need to clean the soldering after, and you do it anyways. Then you apply normal solder and you are good to go. When working on old PCB I always do this. You can even have some in paste that you squeeze out of a syringe and it has flux included. MG Chemicals have some nice product like that.
Nice work with the slot replacement and good to see some components from a dead board going to good use. The less in the landfills the better.
Nice and very basic one. Something you barely see today. Thanks for sharing !
The slot removal pin wiggling sequence reminded me of a dentist visit! 😱
Wait, background music? Adrian's Digital Elevator.
It's fine, not intrusive. I like it.
Nice work! I recently transplanted a pin in my Mega Drive's edge connector that had been squashed down by a cartridge (put bevels on your PCB edges, cartridge makers!!). Rather than desolder and resolder the whole thing, I opted for the single pin transplant. It wasn't as straightforward as I initially hoped, because the pins don't just pull out of the connector when desoldered. Well, they will pull out with a bit of force, but the main issue is there's a small divit, no more than 1 mm deep, that appears to be punched into the pin body, probably to help keep it in place inside the connector when not in a circuit. Trying to put the replacement pin (that I pulled from a for-parts board) back IN was... tedious, challenging and conducive to a fair amount of swearing. Worked a treat though when I was done and you can barely tell which pin was the culprit.
When you are soldering a lot hole though pins like this I use the slide technique with a pencil tip that I have bent into a hook with some liquid flux. Not only is it fast but very tidy as well. Still though great job.
Grats Adrian. That looked like a lot of work, but glad you got your current favorite motherboard fixed.
What a great tutorial. Thanks for sharing.
I once salvaged chips off of a pc board where I once worked, on the wave soldering machine!
A blowtorch?! My goodness.
@AdriansDigitalBasement][
Flux. You forgot flux. Makes desoldering SOOO much easier and faster..
True, but that will cause issues for the Hakko pump. I do that only only on the most difficult pins. He could have added fresh solder to all pins before, it would make heating and sucking much easier
@@AladimBR
Not really. At proper temps, the no-clean type flux does nothing to a desoldering iron.
Nice repair.
Nice work sir :)
The vapour from cyanoacrylate glue is very penetrating and a remarkably good and tenacious insulator, I avoid it like the plague around electronics.
The removal went quite easily because the board was assembled using lead-tin solder, lead free solder requires partial desoldering, adding lead-tin solder, then desoldering again (possibly several times) to get parts out, usually at closer to 400C.
I would be surprised if flowing a little gel flux onto those stubborn pins did nothing to free them.
That was interesting. I was wondering if that was possible. It's good to know that it can be done. Also, the other day, one of the modders I watched showed a tool I never seen before. There called "soldering iron tweezers." They seem to work good for surface mounted things like caps. Might be a tool to add to your arsenal. 👍
I thought i was back in the 70's at a piano bar! lol great video
Replacing connectors and slots is a very tedious process indeed, but when it's all in and working, it's such a satisfying feeling having it all work perfectly... :D
Some PCB:s will not be so happy with that kind of desoldering iron. Without the hot air, you will definitely damage the board. good work for this repair
I come to find working on motherboards, you gotta have a lot of heat and a lot of patience.
You really should try out low-melt solder, it makes desoldering so much easier...
But then you have to flood all the holes with actual normal solder and wick them clean, which runs a risk of additional damage to the pads. If you don't do that or aren't thorough enough, you get a brittle alloy when you solder the new thing in.
@@SianaGearz That risk is way lower than going to town with hot-air and desoldering iron on the ancient solder that more often than not will require copious amounts of heat to melt.......
If you can get some liquid flux and put them on the connectors, you could use an iron to 'wick' the excess solder away. I'd use a bit bigger iron than the little USB-powered ones for that, though.
I replaced a 16bit ISA slot on the motherboard of a Cordata CS40 about 6 years ago using a soldering iron and solder braid. I did it, but oh my that was difficult. It was at that point I decided a Hakko desoldering tool needed to be added to my arsenal. The Hakko makes tasks like this so easy. They are a bit pricey but worth every single penny.
try "low melt solder" it will change your life. Also make sure to clean it all off before resolding the new part on.
As other people have mentioned below Adrian - low melt solder is your friend.
it like a stubborn tooth
those board pre-heaters can make this a lot easier too.
I had a similar problem 10-15 years ago, an LPX motherboard with a bad slot that needed to be replaced. I got really lucky, one of my parts suppliers was cleaning out old inventory and had a sealed NoS box of 50 ISA connectors. I snapped that thing up quick. Been slowly using them over the years, but I don't think I'll ever use all of them in my lifetime. Still have 30 or 40 left.
A quick search shows they're still available on AliExpress for $3-4 a piece, but who knows what quality.
Since you now have hot air equipment, you could now just suspend the motherboard a bit higher, and have weights mounted on your slots or other multi-pin components you want removed, then just use hot air and let gravity do all the work. Then you use the desoldering iron to just rinse the holes clean of old solder.
I've had pins wear out before and I would just shove a tiny piece of rubber from a rubber band behind the pin. Worked every time.
WHAT no video on using the blow torch! 🔥🔥🔥🔥😂
Somebody complained on the internet? Inconceivable! 🤣 Really enjoy your videos. The PET ones brought back a lot of memories.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. 😆
@@manitobanmisanthrope2495 As you wish.
The 6 slottted motherboard, I’ve been looking for you.
Everytime someone uses the word “inconceivable” Wallace Shawn should get $1.
@@jeromewink557 I think he does already! 🤣
For dead connectors I'm not going to repair I run s length of electrical tape along the full length, and fold it down the sides so it stays put - no more accidentally using that slot.
For desoldering, if it's down to just one (maybe two) pins that just won't let go, stand the board vertical in a stand, they pull on the connector with a soldering iron applied to the stubborn pin on the solder side, yes not the best, but sometimes better than continually resoldering and trying again with a desolderer.
Another approach for a few stubborn pins is to rock the connector back and forward until the stubborn pins break through fatigue, then desolder the remnants afterwards..
I kept thinking through most of the video "Damn, the quality here is terrible", it was autoing to 480p mode. It's not just lower res, but it has a lot of artifacts and bad encoding in it, so when you show the connector, all the pins just blur into a mess.
I manually changed it to 720p and it's just crystal clear and sharp, I can actually tell what's going on now.
Nice to see that classic 286 AT motherboard refurbished and returned to like-new condition.
Flux, you need to use flux. It helps transfer the heat into the solder. Less heat required, less chance of damage.
When you want to tension these contacts in this style of edge connectors, you don't pull them towards the center. You push them down towards the board to bend them a little and make the hump to stick out more. Just be careful because it's easy to overdo it.
You’re burning it wrong… MacGas to the rescue :)
I would have added fresh leaded solder on all pins before. It make much easier for the Hakko pump. For the stubborn pins, use some low melt solder, it makes much easier on the motherboard
I use a hot ait gin I got from Harbour Freight for about $20. Works great. Works for smt parts
@18:11 hold it up to the light, to see which holes are partially blocked...
I would have just put electrical tape over the connections and called it good - esp for a test board ;) I admire your tenacity.
Whenever I need to solder a fairly high pin count connector like that, I tend to solder every ODD pin first and then come back to do all the EVEN pins...
My theory is to try to limit the max heat pushed into the PCB at any given time.
Easy peasy! Use a preheater, flux and hold the PCB vertical if using a good desoldering tool such as the Pace SX-100 or use a suitably sized solder fountain.
Wouldn't it be an option to buy one of these IR heat plates to evenly heat up the donor board? You can run it slowly up to the solder melting point, so the heat is transferred fully through the board to the top. These plates also support additional temperature sensors, and you can push one under one of the slots. With that it should be possible to just pull the slot from the PCB without any solder splashing as it will not cook off.
pro tip for the desoldering gun: try to wiggle the pin with the gun before desoldering. if it is moving, all solder is heated and you should suck all of it at the first try.
edit: flux should also help, the more the better :)
Using chipquik is the best way
Adrian, I think you needed to let the hot air or (de)soldering tool heat up those stubborn pins just a bit longer than you did, to let the heat spread out more before trying to remove it. Just a suggestion; other than that, good video!
Ever thought about getting some low-melt solder for when you're desoldering stubborn things?
Hot air gun, dam autocorrect
When I have slots like that and I need to put a card in it what I do is take the ends from zip ties and I will save them and when I need to push a pin up against a card I gently slide one behind it and since it's tapered I can get the right amount of pressure to make the contact work
Smooth jazz playlist. I like it.
surprised by the background music, but enjoyed it after all. Nice touch :)
I did this recently to add extra 16-bit ISA slots on my Amiga A2000, fun playing with Bridgeboards.... Didn't use a Blow torch though...
The time you saved by using a blowtorch is the same time you had to spend to clean the slots up. Would have been more helpful to use a hot air gun (not the rework station) to heat the board more evenly and pull the slots off with pliers.
Pulling the slots off with pliers will destroy them if any pin sticks, which is guaranteed to happen with old oxidized solder joints.
Maybe some chipquick on the ground pins would make it slightly safer?
When you blowtorch a scrap mobo, use compressed air to blow the solder away like Shango does.
I've never seen a 286 board this shiny... though to be fair, the only 286 boards I ever saw were from discarded office PCs.
What a great job Adrian. Hard work payed off. Don't throw away the old slot, replace the broken in and reuse it.
Using low melting point solder and 200-250 Degree c hot air will work..
I wonder if it would make it ANY easier AT ALL if you had put that on a board warmer for a little heat underneath.. just to keep it around 70 or 80c just to help a litle?
Good to know it's easy to replace an ISA slot. Btw, slots never make good contacts. Never. :)
Regards, Adrian.
Card-edge slots seem to be the most robust plug-in interfaces around. More reliable than DIP sockets or Dupont connectors, less fiddly than SIMM slots ... I don't remember off the top of my head _ever_ having an issue with an ISA or PCI or VLB or AGP or PCIe card that I could attribute to bad contact on a slot in good condition.
@@nickwallette6201 ANY slots, ANY. SIMM included. Oxidation, bad platings, cases not aligned properly, to name a few, are the main causes IF you decide to build your computer by your own in very moist (+salts+dust). environments. I could mitigate the problems by Ni (or Sn) plating the cards. Certainly not my exclusive problem since many colleagues of mine had these similar issues.
If you can operate your machines in other conditions than those I've pointed out, it's likely you won't have any problems.
I edited my comment.
@@_nemo171 Granted, I haven't built computers next to a desert oasis, but I still have cards and motherboards I bought new in the 90s and stored in places like garages, through daily and seasonal thermal extremes.
I have several times thought, "I should wipe the edges down with IPA before using them" and rarely actually remember to do so. Despite that, again... not once have I ever had a card that failed to operate correctly that either 1) wasn't obvious and understandable, such as a damaged slot or PCB; or 2) came back to life by cleaning contacts -- i.e., every failure wasn't a contact problem, it was a hardware problem.
Just saying, I respect that it _can_ happen, but I consider that to be a risk of environmental extremes. I might expect a higher-than-normal failure rate for parts that have been in a house fire as well. ;-) That's hardly the fault of the parts, though!
Next time try using your desoldering tool to remove the excess solder on the ports THEN use the torch or something similar to just loosen up whatever's left.
oh I need to do this in my IBM 5150, but I am scared of damaging it.
Next time try a flattop griddle to heat the motherboard on... 🔥
Using a blow torch to remove pcb slots, sounds like something Steve Wallis would do
I could have swore you had a device that looked like an octopus, that had a bunch of clips on it, to help hold while you have both hands free. Saw it in some of your videos awhile back.
Nice job man! Great save. Always check for bulges in multi layer boards.
I can't baer to see mobo's just tossed into the trash, ignored, whatever. So I collect mobo's, 386 and up., but I can never get memory or cpu's. I do the swap meet thing, but the prices just crush me. I'm literally surrounded by barran boards of unknown condition. Guess the joke is on me.👈😂😆
Read a story about a guy who de-populates boards n' cards, with a microwave oven. Maybe its true...
I guess all you have to do is put in a math coprocessor into that empty socket and the motherboard will be expanded to its maximum.
Just shave it man! Do it!
the top 8bit slot, could you put a 16 bit in its place. are all the traces present?
I wonder if this could be used to replace a DRAM slot.
is the ISA socket a standard PCB header socket?
i am looking for something like that for a modular pre-amp concept with different cards like cinch analog input card, XLR input card, phono-pre input card (super cheap, middle or high-end expensive), analog fm radio card, digital radio card, xlr-output card, serial IO card to control other devices (switch between different inputs of an external DAC, or remote control an old cassette deck), ......
i never saw a modular pre-amp on the market with different cards like in desktop PCs.
a PCB header socket like the old ISA card slot looks perfect. enough pins for multiple analog and digital audio bus signals, uart or spi, +/-analog power for L and R separated, digital power, many ground pins in between, many reserved pins....
I think it probably is. The dISAppointment (LPC to ISA adapter) has a 62-pin socket on it, so I assume they're relatively easy to find (The Commander X16 only has a 60 pin socket).
The last time an ISA slot failed for me I ended up doing point to point wiring. It was also the last ISA board I ever used.
When you desolder the pins with the Hakko, it's better to stand the PCB on the edge so you desolder the pins sideways. This way the Hakko doesn't need to suck the solder up against gravity but only move it sideways. Another important point is to heat every pin for at least 2 or 3 seconds, and wiggle the pin while sucking the solder. Standing the PCB up will make it easier to make a wiggle motion with the Hakko when you suck the solder. That way almost all the pins will desolder completely the first try.
you need a pre-warmer. epitronics just got one. It's cheap. It's crappy, but it gets the job done.
Maybe chip tunes would be safer than some piano music. I really enjoyed them in other videos.
Let's design one for you with a PID controller and you can do ramp soak and etc
Used a blowtorch?!? Wow.
Hey Adrian! 350F or 350C temperature?? 🤔
I mount my hot air wand on a magic arm, I set it at 130 C or there abouts and then I can move the board around under it, just let your whole work area heat soak so the iron has less work to do, and take the nozzle off too that ain't helping.
Also, electric frying pan is great for part harvesting.
I wonder if soldering on an 8 bit slot would have allowed plugging in those 8 bit cards with a large PCB that interferes with 16 bit slots.
TBH, if I was in a building and heard "bzzzzz" noises from the basement, my first thought would not be "someone is de-soldering". More like, um, "pinetrating studies", cough. cough. But de-soldering? No. Although some gently "trying to get it into the slot" would be involved.
why no desoldering alloy?
Next time when you are gluing plastic together and you want it to stay, use a plastic glue.
It slightly melts the plastic and then hardens as basically one piece instead of two separate pieces bonded with adhesive between.
It is *very critical* to use as little plastic glue as possible!!!!!! If you put too much on it will turn more of the plastic into goop and it will be very mishapen. The goal is to only get the surfaces melty and then have them stick together by themselves without you having you squeeze them together for more than 10 seconds
How did I miss this video? :O:O:O
I find if you screw the board to a table so it hanging over the edge and heat from below you can then just lift off the parts cleanly....