The truth about fitting an auto transmission oil cooler | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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I fitted the biggest ATF cooler I could find to my transmission after I discovered it had a habit of burning its oil. I left the OEM ATF (oil-to-coolant) cooler in the circuit prior to the ATF passing through the after market oil-to-air cooler. My transmission may run too cold now, but I've never heard of an auto transmission failing due to lack of heat. My ATF now remains cherry red and doesn't smell like sh!t. I'm happy.
I cutout the engine cooling radiator because I didn't see the point in heating the transmission oil twice and cooling it once. Very pleased with my Air Trans' Cooler only install.
I fix large heavy diesel construction equipment for a living and most of them run a transmission cooler that is cooled by the engine water circuit but via a separate cooler. Warms up the trans quicker and keeps trans temp at coolant temp.
Why is the AT cooling system running if the AT doesn't need to be cooled ie needs to be warmed up?
@@SilverMe2004 If its a water to oil style the engine warms it up at the same rate the engine warms up at and will stay locked into only 1st or 2nd gear till min temp is achieved.
Others actually behave just like a cooling system and have a thermostat to regulate cooler flow so as to not over cool the oil.
Well said John. I used to test cooling system performance using a 4WD dyno in a climatic chamber. Bullbars, winches and driving lights inhibit air flow to such an extent, even if your vehicle doesn't overheat, you'll shorten its life as everything runs hotter. Batteries, A/C, steering, rubber hoses, everything. Viscous fans run harder which burns more fuel, adding even more heat. Then there is the air blocking effect of fitting another finned cooler in front of the existing coolers (Radiator and AC condenser). Once again, the temps go up. Also, the additional cooler in the trans oil circuit adds restriction which can reduce oil flow which inhibits the performance of the OEM trans cooler. This was an issue with Falcons with 4 speed autos as the trans oil pump was very small to reduce fuel consumption. I've learnt that accessory manufacturers first convince you what you have is insufficient, then try to sell you a solution to a non existent problem.
Between John's theory and your practise, the evidence is overwhelming! Thanks.
Transmission suck. Buy a car with a gearbox. Then add a gearbox cooler..and an oil cooler and increase the water cooling with an a reservoir in the airstream. Run a return line to the tank to cool the fuel. Thats how you go from overheating to cooling it if you race an AC with a big and hot V8. The whole system runs in the tropics at 35 degrees + and stays in the 170-180f window all day. I run a switch to override the rad fan on cool days or in stop and go or in the workshop. Heat kills.
@@808bigisland Heat kills indeed. I'm over the manual transmission thing. I use to insist on manuals then I got lazy I guess. Also the misses...the misses. I think you know how that story goes.
I really appreciated this John. Thank you for explaining the differences between fluid and air heat exchange so simply and clearly. Makes me recall a friend who competitively raced a group N Torana and built a heat exchanger to cool engine oil using the engine coolant. He was laughed at for not just fitting another cooler in front of the radiator. However this guy owned a radiator shop. And Ivan Tigh was involved. Problems solved.
At first I didn’t know what to think about your videos but after watching a few videos you are very well versed and eloquent with your words. You teach a serious amount of information thank you
Water to oil coolers are also useful for helping the oil to warm up quicker when you start the engine from cold. As the engine coolant warms, heat is transferred to the oil so you can get smoother shifts sooner. It's worth considering these systems more as thermal regulation than cooling per se.
With lock up torque convertors in transmissions once the convertor is locked the engine is keeping the trans warm, the trans becomes added engine cooling.
@@raygale4198 Not always true. Depending on the outside temperature, speed, load, etc, the transmission oil temperature can easily exceed the engine coolant temperature even when the converter is locked. I have seen it happen myself, especially when cruising at high speeds in hot weather. You're right that a transmission generally won't need very much cooling when cruising with the converter locked though.
Actually that's not true for the coolers in the radiator tank because the radiator won't warm up at all until the thermostat opens, which may never even happen in cold enough weather with the heater on. And even when the thermostat does open, in cold weather, the air hitting the radiator will be cool enough that the return coolant will still stay quite cool under light loads. Don't believe me? Feel your lower radiator hose after driving around for a while in below freezing weather and see for yourself. To warm the coolant on cold start as you described, what would actually be needed is a heat exchanger that the coolant flows through constantly, which is used on many newer vehicles for that reason. The radiator warming up the fluid in cold weather is just a myth.
@@averyalexander2303 The original comment was about oil to water coolers, in modern cars at least in Australia they are often plate type heat exchangers mounted on the engine itself and taking water directly from the engine bypass loop, as soon as the engine is running they have water flow and begin to transfer heat. Have a look at Aussie Fords made since about 2005 for a typical system.
@@raygale4198 A stacked plate heat exchanger with warm bypass coolant flowing through it would indeed help warm up the fluid, a lot of cars are using those now for that reason. But most of the vehicles I see here in America run the fluid through a tube in the cold side of the radiator, which was never intended to be a heater. I was surprised that John thought the thermostat regulates the temperature of the fluid in the cold tank or that running the fluid through the cold radiator tank would warm it up because it won't for the reasons I stated.
Hey John
I wish my physics teachers had been as understandable and accessible as you are. I might actually have learned from them when I was younger instead of falling asleep and having to do everything by myself later.
You may have missed your true calling. Teaching is a dark art, and you have the mojo.
Sir John, I live in Barbados and I am happy to be a subscriber to your channel. I was gonna do a lot of accessorizing, but I am glad I found your channel and know better. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
I’d say the issue with the BT50 water temp increase was down to the torque converter slipping increasing the auto fluid temp and water temp. Don’t know BT50 trans cooling set up but that’s exactly what happens in my Pajero. If I tow my 2t van in 5th gear the TC won’t lock and the AT fluid will head north of 100 deg’s very quickly and the engine water temp to 96deg’s at 90kph. If I tow in 4th at the same speed with the TC locked up, the eng temp sits at 82 and the trans fluid at 85 to 90 all day. Slight increase when climbing. Standard Pajero with no modifications
I've had my go at re-engineering a vehicle. I put a centrifugal supercharger on my 2005 Fatboy. Power output approximately doubled, and of course heat build up doubled as well. Impossible to increase the surface area of the air cooled engine, so an oil cooler was added. To prevent overcooling and slow warm up, the Jegs oil cooler fitting had a thermostat to limit oil flow to the heat exchanger when temps were low. I had 2 radiators on an air cooled engine, as it had an air-air intercooler too. End result worked rather well.
140 decibels at 40kph with 3rd gear maxed out.
Can it beat a 300cc ninja now?😂
@@DanWallis86 I think that your beating your meat too much...
I doubt if any accessory nut job has the where with all to listen to this.Thanks once again Mr Cadogan,entertaining and informative.
I watched an Aussie transmission repair guy on the old poo tube who said that the same 6 speed auto as fitted to the Hilux, Dmax, Triton and other utes is a reliable unit. However he did go on to say that the Triton is the only one with an external trans oil cooler. He then went on to say that the Triton's trans lasts longer and has fewer failures than the others. He was of the opinion that the higher heat cycles was the reason the others were less reliable, food for thought.
Air movement through an air trans cooler is around 3000 cfm, and the temperature difference between the cooling medium, air, and the liquid being cooled, can be 3 x or 4x the difference between the water version. In any event, with a coolant type system, the heat energy still has to leave through the radiator, via air. If air can cool an engine/transmission combo, it surely can cool a trans alone.
Fans John, fans. An electric fan or two can quickly overcome 'heat soak'. If you've been lucky enough, to see heavy equipment, constant moving airflow is the name of the game.
And none of them have electric fans.
CAT has hydraulic fans.
Electric is not powerful enough for the available amperage.
@@TheBandit7613 Know about CAT being hydraulic, they infact put their Transmissions coolers before the Radiator also. You can have electric fans on heavy equipment with just using an inverter, for some reason it doesn't happen.
@@jonkvh consider this. Generally, they say a mechanical belt driven fan can use up to three to five horsepower. They move a lot of air. Now think about how powerful the charging system would have to be for an electric fan that draws three to five horsepower. That's pretty incredible
It all goes back to the original design of the cooling system. It is said that electric fans are more efficient than mechanical belt driven fans. And this is true as long as they are not running! There are losses in power every time you switch from electric to mechanical. Actually a belt driven fan is more efficient when it's running.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with Death Valley. I live 30 minutes from Death Valley. I have a Jeep and a performance side by side.
I tried switching my Jeep to electric fans including a bigger radiator. It ran too hot in deep sand. It takes a certain amount of horsepower to move a certain amount of air.
From what I can figure out my Jeep fan is @5000 cfpm when the fan clutch is fully engaged. A good electric fan is 3000 cfpm.
In the 70’s I drove the Perth/Port Hedland trip a few times in Valiant VIP. On some days it was so hot there was cars pulled over every few miles with steam pissing out of them. I wound down all the windows and turned the heater on full and travelled at 40 mph. The choices were fairly stark. Cook in the car but still travelling or cook on the side of the road. The silly buggers chose the side of the road.
As general statement cars now better heat transfer margin.
In old days in Arizona (hot place in US) cars would stop periodically climbing mountain roads. Now nobody stops on these roads, n uses air cond the whole time.
Silly buggers might have been as silly as me. I topped up the fluids in a '75 HJ ute before commencing the 150kmh drive home on a stinking hot Victorian summer's day, many years ago.
The temperature light started to flicker. I turned the heater on, wound the window down and backed the speed all the way down. The flickering reduced and there was only the slight glow of the temperature warning light.
I made it home alright, but definitely in a parched and agitated state.
The following morning my level of patience had increased to the point at which I felt I could address the problem.
I opened the bonnet and there was my radiator cap, upside down on the radiator cowl. I'd never put it back on.
lol, similar happened to me recently. Hot summers day (40 something) in Sydney’s national park. The electric fans on the radiator in the toyota kluger had packed it in. I set the heater to max fan and max temp, all windows were down. Was a sweaty trip back to the guests service department.
Great idea. Very good for my (almost) tropical Brazil !
Smart man drive past idiots!
Thanks for the calculation cheat sheet. I have a 2000’s MG that uses air as the cooling medium for CVT fluid from Factree. It overheats in traffic and I now can calculate the kind of blower I’ll need to make a difference. It may actually work!
Wowzer. Great explanation.. I always wondered why the auto trans fluid runs through the side of the radiator. Thanks John.
Great Physics lesson John! Love it!
John that was a brilliant explanation, thank you
Great Vid John , One thing most dont think about is oil restriction , The aftermarket coolers (some ) have the push on barb fittings and are crimped down and cause a restriction I have fitted many trans coolers I make sure the ends of the pipes are as large as the original pipes on the rad , I did a little test one day and the return line pressure (no cooler 40psi at idle in drive 62psi with the cooler connected ) opened up the cheap fittings on the cooler and got it down to 45psi more line pressure in the cooling line restriction is not a good thing when the big VB is towing his Thunder box (i mean van) ,
Looking forward to the next laugh with you mate , Your a bloody legend and a true Aussie ,
Rob
NSW
Straya
Look up Derale thermostatic fluid cooler valve...
I have installed this with an air cooler...
and I live in an area with -5C during winter...and 35C in summer.
The thermostat ensures fast heating of the ATF while 10% bypasses and keeps the cooler full...
When warm the thermostat opens as far as necessary...
and the ATF still flows through the water cooler in the bottom tank of the radiator....
which is still OEM and 31 years old....without leaks.
The engine lube oil cooler fitted to the engine is a plate type in the side of the block...so there is extra loading on the coolant system anyway....
Very good points John. The vehicles that use only a fluid to air cooler from the factory have a thermostat in the transmission cooling system that bypasses the cooler at cold temperatures. Also most transmissions will not lock up the torque converter or shift into overdrive at cold ambient temperatures until the fluid warms up. By keeping the converter unlocked and the transmission out of overdrive the fluid reaches operating temperature faster.
I think a good future discussion would be about optimising gear selection to keep the TC in the locked condition. It's even an applicable skill without towing as climbing a long hill at highway speed can result in 1°C increase every one or two seconds in my experience with a Nissan 4-spd.
I'm guessing that us Canucks pause the videos when you mention something Australian specific to go google it. Yes, I did pause and google cassowary.
I like the emphasis on keeping crap out of the way of the radiator airflow. I seem to recall Andrew of Berrima Diesel also talking about bullbars reducing the airflow to the engine of a Toyota 70 Series with a V8 and the standard bonnet air intake.
Hey John,
Great explanation. I was concerned about the auto trans in my XM Kia Sorento because excessive temperatures are one of the greater enemies of automatic transmissions and internal combustion engines . I'm lucky, I have an Autel scan tool. One of the data outputs in the TCM is oil temperature. I took the scan tool with me when travelling to Rockhampton ( not quite DPC) in January 2021. The OAT was in the mid to upper 30°C's (if you didn't put units on numbers in reports, my old Thermo Professor would write 'what, bannans') and I was towing approximately 1.5 tonnes of dual axel cage trailer. To my surprise, the Transmission oil temperature rose quickly from a cold start to 70°C and stayed there for the entire trip, regardless of OAT or speed. I was some what surprised, but Kia do say they modify the cars for Auatralian conditions.
The other thing is that regardless of temperature, the Sorento shifts are always the same, even on a -1°C morning.
I had to change the the automatic transmission oil on a V6 petrol JAG (unfortunately the Mondo engine). The specs call for filling and then opening a drain level plug (and the filler plug out) and letting the oil drain out until it stops between 35°C and 40°C as measured by enquiry with the scan tool. After shifting through all the gears with the engine running and then placed in Park. When you get to 40°C you have to put the plug back in and walk away until it gets back to 35°C. You have about four minutes each time and the drain level hole is a 6mm threaded hole. The oil change took about 15 minutes, but getting the level right took the rest of the day.
When I was playing full back for Jerusalem with Noah, (my kids tell me I'm that old), an automatic transmission specialist informed me that the clutch pack material was basically paper and the excessive temperatures caused the clutch material to form a layer of carbon (they basically burn). The then become slippery and need to be replaced. Admitted, electronically controlled shift architecture has effectively eliminated the slow chances that were part of the cause, but the transmission specialist advised removing as much heat as possible from the transmission was advisable. I would suggest, with respect, that I am unaware of any automatic transmission that has a thermostatically controllers oil temperature system. The all go he'll for leather to get the heat out even in the snow. I may be wrong, but no AT or torque convertor drive I'm aware of has a thermostatic controll function to keep the oil in the gold locks patch.
P.S. if this is any indication of KiA's attention to shitsviĺe, the upcoming Kia ute is going to blow everything out of the water, all be it in the higher price range than the Chinese wantabes.
Heya. Many years ago, when servicing my own KH 2000 Mitsubishi Verada, (on this occasion, I was changing all filters and fluids) … I did notice the oil lines for the auto transmission went through the bottom of the coolant radiator. I thought this might have something to do with heat exchanging. I.E, when cold, quickly transferring heat from the coolant to transmission oil. When hot, passing heat from the transmission oil to the coolant during normal operation. Great work John, informative as always!
The water in the bottom of the radiator offers steady consitent temperature regulation. Got it.
Excellent in detail explanation.
But if the OEM gets a crap tube installed in the radiator bottom tank as a means to save pennies....the owner after 3 to 5 years has a destroyed trans...ask Nissan Pathfinder owners.....
@@JohnSmith-yv6eqreplace oem radiator with aftermarket good brand like OSC
Love your videos man keep them coming
My advice here in Florida: If you're towing anything heavy (boat, commercial yard trailer, car trailer) then yes. Bar & plate, bypass the factory radiator integrated cooler. If you're just towing a jetski or something, don't bother.
Rebuilt transmissions for a living, a surprising amount of trucks came in with cooked transmissions from towing. Here in America, people just tow whatever ridiculous amount of weight they can.
While towing a heavy trailer with a car on it, our 7.3 Powerstroke Diesel E350 van (equipped with a transmission temperature gauge) noticed a significant drop in transmission temperature under load with a standalone cooler (radiator bypassed). No significant changes in coolant temperature, maybe 5 degrees F at most cooler. If you're getting a cooler, it's should be for the health of the transmission, not for the coolant temperature. Like you said, if your vehicle is overheating, it's not the trans causing it. It's either blocked up cooling passages and/or too much strain on the engine itself.
And again we have a special explanations of the cooling system, absolutely bloody bonza mate
Thanks John great insight. Question! What temp in transmission oil would turn trans oil warning light on? Thanks.
Thanks for that info John. Has made me think twice about putting an air cooler in my Ranger when i get it...
Great master class John, thank you. Always a believer of leaving the vehicle stock, as the engineers designed and tested it. Cant believe that mechanics have recommended external transmission coolers. Ito be now makes sense that the cooler needs incorporated in the radiator. No one ever talks about the importance for the Auto transmission needing to be heated to run at a operating temperature. I have never had issues with my Auto , even when towing! I don't have a bull bar, driving lights or a winch of course.
I believe this is why Barney Rubble was very happy with his car!
John , a perfect explanation !!!!
Last minute is just insane nice man thank you
Great video and explanation. Cheers John.
There are also some great aftermarket alloy trans pans with cooling fins that can't hurt to install
Brilliant video learnt a lot thankyou for sharing your knowledge
A standard size 300x300mm transmission oil/air cooler in conjunction with an off the shelf 12v 10'' thermos fan mounted to it that produces at least 850cfm when converted will give you 24.06 m3/min. That's 24060L of air per minute which far exceeds the required amount to cool the transmission in your equation.
Also wiring the thermos fan to a 3 position switch (ALWAYS ON, OFF, AUTO/TEMP) with a temp sensor will keep the transmission at the optimal 90-95c temp indefinitely. So yes I agree that water/air is great in concept and is far more efficient on its own you cannot really beat the price and availability of an off the shelf air/air setup with a fan and mounting bracket kit to suit almost every 4x4 and some passenger cars on the market.
Hi john,
I have a ranger raptor with aftermarket accessories and do a lot of 4x4 low range stuff,My ATF went up to as high as 115 degrees and I think would have got higher if I hadn’t stopped to cool it down,would it be better to upgrade to a larger radiator than get an oil cooler.
Cheers
Nice. Going to be covering this in one of my classes in about 4 weeks.
Great explanation John id be keen to get your thoughts on using a transmission locker to assist with reducing transmission heat when towing my shitwa across the outback
Hi john I'm planing to fit two small transmission coolers i n my holden colorado rg because I'm towing a lot in queensland but I want also fit oil thermostat which is going to activate extra coolers when oil temperature reach about and over 90 C
Hi, John. Great physics lesson. In cases like this, or in cases where no mods have been inflicted,is installing a transmission fluid temp gauge a good idea ?
I put one on my Sprinter, helped diagnose fluid issues I was having with it, so worth it's cost to me. Plus I love dash gauges, I miss the 00's sexspec scene.
If you havent yet, just get a bluetooth obd2 scanner
Hi John,
Good report, one question, I tow a small van just under 2000kg with a triton the same as yours. On a long climb it gets hot, I throttle back and change down so I don’t over stress the engine.
Should I be worried about the engine temp increase in these situations.
Example, travelling north on the Moonbi range north of Tamworth.
Temp gauge goes up a few steps.
Jeff
Good explanation in Australian.....was thinking about joining club air cool, as I do a lot of towing...but funny nuff, never had any greif driving clever with me bum dragging...
Woah dude really educative video thank you so much
If you get bitten by a brown snake 🐍 what does engine temp matter 😂
probably explains why when i burn my finger i run cold water over the wound and not just wave it around in the wind.......
Good explanation
Once again, another great instructional video.
I'm a forklift mechanic and most machines with torque converter based powershift transmissions have an oil to water transmission cooler which is built as a seperate exchanger coil in the radiator which obviously shares the engine coolant - they're sized appropriately for all operation conditions and using the engine coolant keeps the transmission at optimum temperature.
I have had a few odd ball cases of severe engine overheating caused solely by the transmission dumping excessive heat via its exchanger into the engine coolant but this has always been due to a severe fault with the transmission itself - normally severe clutch pack slippage caused by f@&ked clutch packs or low clutch pack control pressures. Never seen it due to any specific operating condition, ordinary or severe.
Our 200 series LandCruiser is fitted with a torque converter lockup switch this this does pull the temperature from like 130 down to 70 with in almost seconds. Also stops torque converter flaring and behaves like a locked up manual transmission on the highway. Just need to make sure it unlocks under 70 km an hour. Also driving at manually on the beach keeps at temperatures way down under 100. Would be interested in your thoughts on lock up torque converter switchs.
Had a lockup kit on my Pajero for 5 years and it has performed flawlessly. SAVES a litre per 100klm and transmission is way cooler as well as driving much better. I can lock up 2,3,4 and 5th gears as well. It virtually converts your auto into a manual if you want it too. In sports mode it is virtually a clutchless gearbox. In drive it just goes through all the gears in lock up mode. Locks up at over 40kph..
Heat exchangers joined with radiators have been known to leak coolant into transmissions. Fitting a air cooled transmission cooler is a great idea.
fix the leak
@@longflare Too late for the transmission by then.
dohhhhh comment @@longflare
a missed factor that a lot of us who do install a aftermarket transmission coolers...in the event of a radiator failure...you are not at risk of milk shaking your transmission. while i agree that the cooling properties of an air cooler is inferior too a inbuilt radiator/transmission cooler...i would rather have the systems operating independently while regularly servicing my transmission to mitigate premature oil degradation.
Me too.
If system is an 'add on' I would prefer it to be serviceable separately.
'All in one' systems are great, until a part fails then 'everything' fails
In a nutshell....that is exactly why I fitted a trans cooler, not for the heat properties reason, but so that when, not if, the radiator cooling pipe is compromised I don't end up with engine coolant mixing with trans oil and when it returns to the box is superheated and 'curdles' the fluid.... = 1 fucked box.
About to watch the vid, just a note, the old Powerglides actually had a spring and ball between the cooler passages, so if you kinked a line, no cooling, but lube circuit stayed open and you didn't even get to know there was a problem.
classic example was the Falcon and Territory petrol engines with the ZF 8-speed torque converter, if they were not from the factory with legit tow pack then they did not get the high capacity air to air transmission cooler and asuch the gearbox would "milkshake" and that was that.
My old Falcon from back in the day had a factory tow pack (up to 2,300kg) and as such the good ol BTR 4-speed torque converter had a transmission cooler and was pretty much bullet proof once up to operating temp when towing, the trick is to be gentle for at least 15 minutes of so while everything gets into correct temp mode.
Would have helped if Ford had installed an ATF thermostatic valve like a Derale product...trans temp would have gone to normal operating temp very quickly even on frosty
cold days....
Hi John, thanks for doing this video, I have a 2019 Subaru XV and I was looking at doing some moderate offroad stuff with it, not any blue singlet wearing stuff though. Anyway, I was thinking of installing (via a reputable transmission technician) an additional transmission cooler for the CVT as I heard the offroad stuff can be a little taxing on the transmission by it getting too hot, as would towing something uphill.
I have a Crosstrek and a Hilux. For serious off-road stuff I used the Hilux and even for that with a conventional auto box I had to add a cooler
In the USA here.
I drive an F-150 4x4 with 4.6 V-8 and auto xmsn.
My xmsn temps range from about 60 to 80 (C) most of the time.
Almost never does the transmission reach the 90-100 temp range, even pulling a trailer.
No changes to factory set-up for cooling (one small air trans cooler in front of the regular radiator).
Stop the torque converter slipping and generating heat in the first place. Fit a torque converter lock up kit. Best modification I did for towing with my NX Pajero was to fit a MM 4x4 Auto mate lock up kit. Keeps transmission temps around 70-80 degrees all the time. Fully automatic will lock and unlock depending on driving conditions. Has its own computer that talks to the gearbox CPU. Shift settings etc can be adjusted. Also fitted an ultragauge to monitor engine parameters eg Torque converter temp and gear box pan temp. Once transmission is locked temps stabilize around 70-80 degrees very quickly. Better fuel economy as no slippage and more power to the wheels. You would be amazed how quickly transmission temps can reach over 100 degrees when the torque converter slips even without towing. Standard automatic gearbox programming for most 4x4s will get to top gear very quickly but with a bit of acceleration torque converter will unlock and slip. Pajero will not lock until car is travelling above 90kph. MM 4x4 Automate will lock from 2nd gear up to top gear. A must for towing with an Automatic Gearbox.
Here in the US a lot of vehicles come with "lock up torque converters" from the factory. It is a simple way to increase the mileage and decrease the pollution per mile so the makers do it.
I thought most auto trans had lock up converters these days.
@@partymanau They do but they don't always lock up when you want them to which is the main problem with the overheating. Top gear under load will quite often unlock. Being able to remap the Gearbox CPU and keep it locked longer would fix this or fit a lock up kit. Some American pickup trucks have a tow button which when pressed has different mapping for the gearbox which keeps it locked longer. This is what we really need fitted from factory to our tow vehicles in Aus.
As a weird aside, when you fit a towbar to a Honda CRV it comes with an oil cooler kit that has to be fitted to comply to warranty. The cooler sits in front of the front left wheel arch and comes with a new bumper insert and arch liner both with vents. It also just plugs straight into the CVT (there is a loop of hose you pull off and plug the cooler lines into). I'm guessing this is to stop the CVT grenading while towing your caravan on the highway.
I learned something today. Thank you.
Excellent!!
I usually agree with the auto advice JC offers partly because he is qualified to offer that advice. He is also very good at simplifying the known technical and scientific data he uses to support that advice. Regarding the use of add-on air transmission coolers, having had some practical experience with and without a Trans' cooler in my tow vehicle I am very pleased with the result of my install. I'm sure if JC conducted his own 'practical RUclips project' on before and after trans' cooler installs he could possibly question his known scientific facts and figures.
Another great vid great explanation
Keep it up
Something worth noting is the current Honda CR-V genuine towbar kit includes a secondary (air to oil) transmission cooler. But again, I'm sure some level or R+D went into that decision.
How does this work with most modern radiators with vertical tanks either side and transmission coolers in the vertical? Is it the same?
They're cross flow - the outlet tank is cool just like the bottom tank of yesteryear.
Have a look at your triton it has a external transmission cooler
John Cadogan sounds like Mick Taylor from Wolf Creek reading in that voice!
Talking about transmissions, John, being an engineer at heart, can you explain the workings of the worlds first Automatic Manual transmission in the new Koenigsegg for us mere mortals?
My mechanic fitted a trany cooler on my 2005 BA 6cyl as he said if the car overheated or blew a head gasket this would protect my transmission. Bewdy mate!
A consideration is that if the transmission is overheated and forces the heat exchanger in the bottom tank to run too hot there is a deposit that forms on the outside of the tube insulating it. This fouling cannot be removed easily. Therefore the next overheating event will onset sooner and likely make the deposit worse. Adding an air cooler instantly fixes the problem. Some transmissioins do not have a high enough flow to the cooler for the load so will send hotter fluid to the cooler and cause the problem. Importatn not to overheat the supplied heat exchanger. Seems the best way is to have a thermometer in the transmission and the exiting fluid controlling and additional cooler.
see Derale thermostatic ATF control vaves for coolers......
DIY that ensures ATF is neither too cold nor too hot...
The BT50/Ranger has an issue with the viscous fan hub. It failed and the vehicles overheated at high ambient temps. It really means the vehicles are underdone in the cooling system. A fan hub should really be effective at low speeds.
My personal bt (Now traded because the dealer WILL NOT fix many issues) would overheat up a hill above 35 deg c. Took 3 visits to the stealership to fix.
The trans upshifts when engine temps of over 100 deg are recorded to circulate more coolant.
Just don't tow with it. Buy something rlse.
if you have a puntured oil cooler tubing in a radiator (convection cooler), that is mixing oil and water. But the radiator is cooling nice my engine, would it be righteous to change it or set up and external ATF cooler to prevent from mixing engine coolant and ATF ?. I´m from Mexico City with a mean ambient temprature of 25° Celcius. Great video, and thanks in advance for your attention to my question respectable Sir.
Put a fluid heat exchanger in it..that way it is controlled by the thermostat but with extra exchange capacity
There’s so much opinion on the internet about the importance of keeping transmission fluid temperatures cooler than what they generally achieve when under load and/or subjected to high ambient temperature, and the opinions generally suggest that colour or smell of the fluid is an accurate indicator of its state of degradation. There’s very little factual evidence however, of what temperature transmission fluids can safely operate at before degradation occurs. Much of the opinion I’ve read about the importance of cooler transmission temperatures seems to originate from people with a vested interest in vehicle owners fitting transmission coolers, or from people who have in fact had coolers fitted to their own vehicles and are seeking justification. I don’t blame them, I probably would too.
I’d like to see results from credible laboratory tests of transmission fluid samples that have been operating at high temperatures for varying exposure times, and see what the results indicate are temperature ranges and exposure times that transmission fluids can actually endure before the lubrication qualities of the fluid is actually adversely affected.
John ,would the ultimate solution be to make sure that the Engine oil is cooled sufficiently under extreme driving and also the intake air is also as cool as possible,don't many diesel engine problems stem from to much hot Air?
Correct me if this not so please .
Should engines have a controlled oil cooler accessory to be used when towing and extreme driving ?
Great video. Has heat transfer course in college dead on.
My comment: in US best approach is buy towing package option
😂 Always good for a laugh, JC "YESSS"
Here's an idea.....
Buy a vehicle that comes factory fitted with an external trans cooler!
Yes, some manufacturers fit them as standard equipment (not a part of a 'tow' pack...).
The external cooler sheds some of the heat, then the trans fluid flows through the heat exchanger in the bottom of the radiator to stabilise the temperature even further.
If a manufacturer of a 'heavy duty' vehicle that is marketed for towing heavy loads, is not preparing the vehicle for carrying out such duties, they are being cheap and taking shortcuts. It is the buyer that will eventually pay the ultimate penalty for that case of penny pinching......
I was told when i was young and dumb if you are going to install a trans cooler then put a bypass thermostat in so that cold days or going down hill so that the trans fluid does not run to cold one of best examples of this was the Harley evo motor put an oil cooler on it without a bypass thermostat and in the it will never reach operating temperature
That motor grows 1hunderd thousands from cold to hot against my advice a customer put one on his bike then came complaining that his bike would not run rite told him to put a cover on the cooler or a bypass thermostat bypass on it all sudden it starts runing rite motor now getting up to operating temp
i heard a mechanic advising putting a supplemental transmission air cooler UPSTREAM of the existing transmission cooler to avoid overcooling the oil. it will still reduce the cooling load on the regular radiator.
Drivers forget if you work your ute hard it heats the intercooler stopping the radiator from cooling the coolant below 90 degrees hence why you get peeks of 125.
So on a hot day with the air con running the air passes through the condenser, power steering and transmission coolers next is the intercooler and lastly the radiator.
so on very hot days remove the spot lights, the bugs and let the engine run in a lower gear.
Hi John. Any tips for traveling from Sydney to Perth and back. No caravan
Qantas🤣
Just follow the signs. The whole entire road is sealed and sign posted. 3 days of easy driving, in any car.
@@vitalys5395 3 Days! That’s more than 12hrs driving each day. Going to take it a little slower than that
Good video John. The work around that I've implemented a few times as a mechanic is to run the auto fluid through an air cooler first and then through the bottom of the radiator afterwards - the air cooler will take a few degrees off the auto fluid which will then be less likely to raise the coolant temp. And secondly, the coolant will ensure the auto fluid going back to the auto has not cooled down too much.
But then your also restricting air flow in front of the radiator and slightly raising the temp of the air going through the radiator making it less efficient at cooling the coolant.
I've found that the best help sometimes is to add some extra silicon oil (available from Toyota) into the viscous fan hub making it suck a bit more air through the radiator.
As John explained, air is really a very inferior way of absorbing heat compared to water, so is it really worthwhile installing an air method just before going into the water?
@@jamesfrench7299
It is if the turbo diesel also has a lubricating oil cooler rejecting heat into the coolant...and the radiator.
In which case every little bit helps.
Or do what most Holden owners have to do...
install a much greater coolant capacity radiator in preparation for towing the shittoir......
Yes!
Center & other workshops due to the unavailableilty of the spare part. There are many other owners who are driving daily with the fear of the ATF cooler replacement and AT failures at anytime.
Please advise us with your expertise view on this and suggest us is there any other alternative for this issues and is it possible to use any after market ATF coolers to resolve the issue for the long term usage of our cars.
Your expertise and advice would help many thousand owners.
Thanks in advance
I like the idea of separating transmission fluid from coolant. It avoids the chance of the transmission fluid turning into a strawberry milkshake when things go wrong.
Awesomeness Extreme
Who would have thought!!
It was always my opinion that bottom tank mounted trans coolers were
the result of car makers laziness/ bean counters frugallity or both.
Dood, your explanation makes it abundantly clear I was wrong, wrong, wrong.
Another commenter suggested putting the air cooled trans cooler before the
bottom tank so any overcooling can be compensated for. Your views??
This is all well and good unless you're the proud owner of a vehicle whose 'radiator' was designed by the corporate 'bean counters'. I've owned vehicles where their radiators were marginal, at best, under 'normal' conditions but wholly inadequate in more extreme conditions.
The first item to be fitted to my brand new FJ Cruiser, 136C on slow steep climbs, just not my cup of coffee here.
You're smarter than the average human Yogi Bear. keep up the good fight.
Hi , try cooling industrial air cooled engines in mobile and stationary plant . Using oil to air coolers is challenging to remove heat . Once done the engine and oil lasted alot longer . The sump oil was running under load 115 cel down to 95--100cel in 35cel ambient. Great result . Oh yea ALL oils degrade additive packages over 100cel just some faster some slower . Operating temps over 100deg cel reduce longevity of all things mechanical .,no exceptions .
Always yes.
Discussed the whole subject of coolers, and oil temps with a transmission specialist that was nearing the end of his career. He had seen many, many factory designs that liked to enter into a relationship with coolant or trans fluid, incestuous lot.
On the subject of correct running temperature, cooler was always better. While autos developed heat, cooler was better... A ZF specialist indicated their transmissions would happily function at - 20C, cold oil was relatively not an issue, which surprised me, and had no issue with the removal of oil to water cooler.
Anyway, if you have a Falcon you don't have an option anyway. Not enough airflow, buy one with a fan and thermostat.
John having been a mechanic since 1971 we started fitting transmission coolers on falcons because of their bad habit of the radiator leaking water into the gearbox causing red milkshakes. This caused by he poor quality radiators ford installs in their cars.
I had that happen to my 2002 BA Falcon
@@archygrey9093 very common for them unfortunately. 😔
Yes mate common modification on a couple of other brands as well ...
That happened to my 2000 AU wagon.
This is why you also fit a temperature control smart valve to recirculate the oil back to the transmission until its up to temp & then when the transmission fluid gets excessively hot due to low speed, rough, steep tracks which tax most 4WD's.
If you have a CVT I think it's probably a very good idea. It adds a lot more fluid to the circuit and helps stop the overheating issues.
Keep us updated but I personally don't like cvt and dsg transmissions. They wasted a lot of my time and money both vw and Toyota. Transmission must be automatic or manual not auto and manual.
Think I just learnt more about Physics than all of high school.