"Your Art Offends My Sensibilities, STOP IT"
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Yes, I said "pm" instead of "am," you may all laugh.
I don't know how I managed it, but here's what is effectively an hour long rant. Hope
Artists online are always finding the most ridiculous, and often hypocritical, reasons to stop one another from creating art. I sorta expect this to encourage artists to create pieces out of spite, but maybe that's just me. Either way, I disagree with the notion of "your art offends me personally so you're not allowed to make it."
Art Karens can go talk to the manager.
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Don't forget to check out content from today's editor: @CasualFlash
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❤ Featured Fanart ❤
"Ponder" by PrussianVenom
www.deviantart...
"Meka" by Casual Flash
@casual_flash
"Ponder Sprocket Chibi" by @Emi_Ane
/ emi_ane
"Messing around with brushes" by @Kuraccino/@PrismaticChame1
(Cannot find artist. If you know a link to this artist's new socials, please let me know.)
“I made an attempt” by @SuupurS
/ suupurs
“Ponder Sprocket [Fanart] by ShinyRaupy
www.furaffinit...
“Best Gal” by NixTheDarling
www.deviantart...
“Ponder is Fucking Pissed” by PCVaughn
/ sanguinesmithy8
“Sweet Bean-Berry” by CritterOfEgypt
www.deviantart...
“Octo-Mama” by PUPPYPOWER123
www.deviantart...
"Sum Fanart" by @ultratrashboii
/ ultratrashboii
“Proto and Mecha” by @Desekos
/ desekos
“Ponder Sprocket” by chaosphoeniex
www.deviantart...
“A Thank You Stem” by @SylviaArtz2000
/ sylviaartz2000
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(Companies sending me sponsorship requests through this e-mail will be blocked and blacklisted~ Kisses~)
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My DeviantArt: www.deviantart...
My Comics: tapas.io/empty...
My Twitter: / emptybrooke
My Patreon: / emptybrooke
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"Art should disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed." -Cesar A Cruz
Thank you for commenting this ^^. It’s one of my favourite quotes ever.
Well said my friend
If the majority of the art community acknowledges the quote, then the art community would be less entitled by now
What quote is this from
@@Mespoina . . . From a human being named César Cruz????
"one man's trigger is another man's interest" - some wise sea gremlin
I like that
Underrated comment
"That is a good wisdom"
-some dog on a airplane
Thank you Shadow senpai
Oh Ponder of the lake, what is your wisdom?
There was a twitter dude who tried to cancel mythology because Perseus was a horrible hero and Zeus and the other gods were... "problematic." And that's why I no longer look at twitter.
Omg that's also disrespectful to other people's cultures cause people still worship those gods
I laughed for a solid 5 minutes reading that, thank you.
@@cutestdude who actually worships zeus? I thought he was fictional.
I've Edited this comment because it was really poorly worded and I'm very sorry about that, yes I know that more than one religion other than Christianity exists, I just found it bizarre because I always thought that Zeus was commonly seen as a folklore story and was believed to be as real as a 3 headed fire breathing dragon, I was ignorant overly hostile and I am very sorry to the Greek who do believe old gods, I genuinely mean that.
@@ALIEN-DUDE Many people actually. It's not really that different from Christians who worship a singular ancient God.
There's more than one religion in the world
I remember someone trying to cancel Genghis Khan, not long enough ago. It's a shame that we'll never get an apology video from him or Zeus.
There are people who survived the bombing of Hiroshima who drew what they saw in the aftermath. (There's also a manga and two anime movies drawn by one of those people called Barefoot Gen.) It's some real disturbing shit. You can only imagine what they actually saw based on the drawings. Imagine telling those people who survived a nuclear bomb that their art makes you feel bad and that they should destroy those drawings and never draw something like that again!
Okay that would actually piss me the fuck off. I hope nobody ain’t that stupid.
Another thing they don't seem to understand is that art is also used as a time capsule. Art depicting real life atrocities have been used to piece together what happened back then, and to take it down to protect one person's feefees is to silence the experiences of others, as well as further isolate those who feel like no one can relate to their suffering
Exactly. Shaming those survivors is disrespectful and disgusting. There's also people who escaped North Korea and drew their experience being there. I've seen ones of them being in the concentration camps, showing the horrors that they had to deal with. It was heartbreaking.
I love the bearfoot gen movie. It's the only movie that makes me cry every time I watch it, and the only movie thats EVER made my sister cry. It's so fucking good.
As someone who actually comes from Hiroshima and has gone to both art galleries and had to actually sit down and watch a video montages of these gruesome pieces of media for my overseas art history class- thank you for sharing a part of my culture to promote artistic expression! These drawings aren’t just a sad piece to look back on, but they are a segment of history that helps us remember what we’ve lost, who we’ve lost, and understand the detriments of war on civilians. We shouldn’t be ashamed for what my grandparents survived to be captured in art, we should acknowledge and memorialize it- even if its painful and even hard to look at, I believe it holds necessity.
//Sorry for the mini rant, just thought I’d add a perspective of a Japanese-American guy who really like art :D!
As a minor who’s been sexually harassed by adults, recently even, I appreciate this video a lot, some of y’all don’t know what pedo means and it shows, pedo is a word that means something, you can’t just apply it to every art piece that makes you uncomfortable, by doing that, your just making people take pedo claims less and less seriously. Which yes, will actively affect REAL victims irl. You look entitled, not like an ally.
(It’s worth noting that after this I uncovered some SA trauma in therapy, granted this was half a year ago when I came across these memories but I forgot all about this comment)
yeah, i was SA'ed when i was like, 7ish. people that throw the word pedo around disgust me, especially when they haven't even experienced the trauma of being preyed on sexually as a child.
You can't apply it to everything that makes you uncomfortable, but someone getting off to depections of children being abused or creating content where such actions are portrayed as good or praiseworthy are still partaking in pedophilic content. It's not always a straight forward, like with the situation depicted in the video for example as their work wasn't created with that in mind.
@@summercucumber4964 I don’t personally feel like I have enough information with this discussion to have a firm opinion, as I’ve seen CSA victims saying they find it offensive to compare drawings to real world assault, and I don’t want to risk talking over someone. But my thoughts on the matter right now are as follows: I agree purposely creating pedo content is morally wrong, but unless the artist has stated they Think being a pedo is okay !!in text or audio form!! You have no real way of confirming someone’s intention with an art piece unless they tell you as such. The man discussed in this video who made a canibalistic art piece to commentate on how morality and legality don’t always go together is evident that you need to look deeper into peoples intention when it comes to art, typically anyway. But a height difference between characters isnt pedophelic. Some people are short, as long as the artist has stated the character is actually legal and can consent it doesn’t matter. Saying it matters always ends up body shaming at least one person on this planet.
@@Nebularicnoodles As you mentioned, some CSA victims see it as offensive. As one, I personally find it extremely offensive to equate drawings to (yknow, my past experiences))
Though I don't speak for everyone, everyone deals with it and sees these things in a different way.
The "discussion" about these types of things usually ends up with body shaming, shaming someone's coping mechanism, harming/purposely triggering survivors,
and I've seen so much of the "abused people WILL become abusers, there's no way around it" thing.
It just gets tiring after a while
@@Nebularicnoodles I a hundred percent agree with this, also as someone who was sexually assaulted as a literal seven year old, I feel your pain- that experience makes me feel disgusted, but I'm also the type of person who actively hates people comparing fiction to reality- because people who do that often overlook certain things and solely attack drawings most of the time. For example, a person might attack someone who wrote an underage fanfic, claiming they're a pedo- but completely avoid criticizing people like Stephen King who literally wrote an underage orgy in his book solely because they're popular, thus they see nothing wrong with it.
I've seen many people get attacked for making certain art of Cookie Run characters because people claim some of those characters are children (which, by the way, was never officially confirmed- it was just widely agreed upon started on twitter, obviously, so people began hardcore harassing others)
I'm someone who highly believes cookies don't have an age, anyways- because, they're fucking cookies- and it feels morally and disgustingly wrong to me for someone to give a literal digital cookie an unconfirmed age, treat it as truth, then call someone a pedo for being attracted to said cookie. (For example, I really like Mango cookie- and he also has a very old sounding voice in the english version, but since he's widely seen as a child solely because he's short I'd probably get bullied for being into him)
As someone who's been sexually assaulted as a kid, I find it extremely offensive these people go to such extremes over the most stupid characters such as literal fucking cookies and treat it as if they're "doing justice" to the people who have gone through this experience, because this isn't justice, it's gross. You can't claim someone is a pedo just because they're into a cookie, but I've seen it happen. That's like saying the person who's into the cookie also wants to do inappropriate things with a gingerbread cookie in real life- it doesn't make sense?
Sorry if I'm going in too much detail with this rant of sorts, but it's rare I find someone who thinks the same way I do and has been through a similar experience I have. It feels nice, really (that and I'm sick of being harassed by Cookie Run players so I used it as an example for people doing what we're all agreeing is gross)
It’s so endlessly frustrating and ironically victim blaming of people to police art topics. It reminds me of the Kikuo drama from last year. Kikuo is a musician who makes vocaloid music based around his own trauma of being bullied and abused as a child. They’re usually accompanied with an aesthetic similar to the scribbles of a little kid, with a lot of harsh colors, simplistic shapes or the texture of colored pencils/oil pastels to give off the vibes of listening to a child venting their traumas in therapy. Well, one time he made a comic about his conflicting thoughts of being bullied and having romantic (if not sexual) feelings for his bully. He depicted himself in his typical chibi/childlike aesthetic, being beaten then hugging the horn in a bathroom. People instantly branded him as drawing “cheese pizza” and started going after people who liked his music. Which sucks, because yes it’s disgusting and disturbing, but *that’s the point.*
It's fairly disgusting to judge a person considering that they're venting their feelings with art, people are sick
Oh boy those people have not heard Maretu's songs have they 🤣
ohhh so that's what happened to kikuo I was confused bec he said he dealt with some cancelling
I’m sorry ppl did what?? How do people ignore the WHOLE point of someone’s art/medium??? I’m so tired of ppl doing that omfg…
I did not know kikuo was abused himself! No wonder his songs felt too real. When did this happen? Also do you know where I can find that comic?
If drawing gore is bad *HALF OF THE SCP FANDOM WOULD HAVE BEEN CANCELED BY NOW.*
Edit: I am well aware the SCP Fandom wouldn't be the only one, please stop bringing it up with "not even scp, but ____, ____, and ____." I have heard it already from like 20 people. It's getting repetitive. Thanks.
i can imagine 049 saying this is why he 'cures' people
And the current mlp fandom, all I ever see them drawing now is gore
slasher fandoms would simply cease to exist
A good part of mlp would be absolutely obliterated if im being honest
I like gore. Give me digital entails and I will follow you to the end of the earth.
Some fetish art works makes me uncomfortable, but yk what I do to avoid it????? ✨not consume it and block artists I don’t want to see✨
then how do you explain those who don't like it but still comments on it anyway?
like sees the art, click on it and then complain in comment section.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad Idk, some people just don’t understand how an algorithm works, ig ╮(๑•́ н •̀)╭
@@jXded. They really don't.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad they get dopamine from being "justice" on internet
They are basically being a parody of sjw - but instead sound more like christian puritans that kind of dig what they see - but they cant admit it otherwise its SIN
Exactly. I feel the same, I don't like NSFW work in general but it hurts no one unless it's based on real people without their consent
Literally saw someone’s entire professional art career get destroyed by this. Their vent art was sent to their employers and got them FIRED by, guess who, a group of ex-friends that have been harassing them for years! It’s painful that this is happening for artist and writers alike. Like, god damn, the fiction community (fan fiction, published works, all of it) is just as bad...
I saw that happen. It was horrible, and 🐜s celebrated it as if it was an accomplishment they should be proud of. It doesn’t help that the artist was disabled and most of their sources of income were taken away from them because of these nasty people.
Honestly, anyone who agrees with the mentality that “problematic art should be erased from the face of the earth” should check themselves.
there was another situation where a bunch of adults threatened to doxx and throat punch a 13yo over some madness combat fanfiction they wrote
shit like this makes me wanna live in the woods
@@adrekiy0 I saw that one too, and it was awful. The fact they were planning on committing A FELONY over fanfiction and didn't see how messed up their mentality and thought process was legitimately alarming.
Oh my gosh. I've seen and heard stuff like this happened so many times, specially with art, going from false accusations to doxxing. Stuff like that is one of the reasons why i don't post my art much on social media because people have become so toxic and think they're such good people for being garbage to others. They're so stuck up on wanting to play moral police that they go after innocent people.
Who is this person? I keep trying to find out more about this but I can’t find any proof
To say an artist is a bad person for drawing "uncomfortable" art depicting their own personal experiences is some HIGH level victim blaming.
The whole purpose of art is to provide a medium where you can express ideas and emotions. If you feel negative from art that's depecting negative things in a negative light, then the art is doing it's job! Even if the subject matter is something not particularly likeable the purpose of the piece could be. And even if the art personally troubles, you could easily avoid it rather than trying to remove it (effectively denying their own experiences and rights).
Simply, an artist depecting something bad as bad is different from an artist depecting something bad as good and trying to stop the former is morally wrong in so many ways.
Yah shame the person thats gone through absolutely horrible things and has found a way to express themselves fully through a healthy madam. That wont make them regress or start back down a path of unhealthy self destruction. Not at all. But dont worry poor little baby wont have to see anything that hurts they're little fefes or makes them uncomfortable.
EXACTLY! Drawing something dark doesn't mean you'd ever do something super dark. Ridiculous.
Thats fair. I've also seen artists who straight up use taboo subjects like incest as a way to be edgy or cause they think its a cute forbidden love, and I think when someones deliberately doing that to a serious topic that art needs to be criticized. But I often see people go after stuff that shows dark things regardless of context and intent. I think both sides of the argument are a little bad at media comprehension in their own way although i personally am swayed a bit more in the opposite side than probably most commentators here
Take what happened with Dreamalgia, it was a case of extreme victim blaming, the art they made wasn't romanticizing anything despite the art style, it's true purpose was to vent how they felt, and nobody understood them, and instead of helping them, people tried to bring them down, because apparently their feelings mattered more instead of the ones of a victim of abuse.
EXACTLY. It’s sad to see our society be bringing up victim blaming and be like “don’t be like this” and yet they do just that when they don’t like a drawing and send death threats to the artist and then, worst case scenario, they lose their lives by their own hand.
The most offensive thing about art: Your alcohol marker dying on you midway through the drawing.
For digital artists: Ctrl + Z not working anymore, or the pen you're using suddenly stops being responsive when you're trying to get something you need to get done done
@@kiddosneakybeaky3934 As a mainly digital artist: I wholeheartedly agree! Also, quite offensive if it ends up not being a driver update, and the pen cut out for absolutely no reason. And then you have to save your work and restart your whole computer for it to work again.
@@melaniescribbles Ye ikr? Like jeez smh drawing tablets can be SO rude at times :/
(/j/lh)
*sobs*
@@melaniescribbles Also, when you realized that you placed that one dot by accident and you have to go through all your layers just to erase it.
"B-b-but m-m-my triggers 🤯🤯🤯" your sensibilities, your responsibilities. there's nothing wrong with having triggers but it is the responsibility of the person with those triggers to make sure they aren't triggered, not everyone else on the planet's responsibility to sanitize their art
I get not seeking out that content, but isn't it up to the creator of the art to at least give warnings? Like if I'm just scrolling through my regular fyp and something randomly pops up that isn't censored or doesn't have a warning for it and it upsets or triggers me, is that really my fault?
@@rottingstarz warnings are important, and the least a content creator could do to warn people. Its not your fault you have triggers, and imo its unrealistic to expect everyone with triggers to.. stop consuming content altogether? but the other reply is right that artists dont have to tailor their art to others. i appreciate the opportunity for a nuanced discussion ^^
@@mineash2945 yeah, it feels like a lot of people misunderstand the purpose of trigger warnings. trigger warnings aren't "stop doing that!!" and are instead "please tell me so i can remove myself," the best thing i can compare it to is allergy warnings, they're there so everyone else can eat what they want while people who can't can avoid it. a lot of people seem to think adding a warning somehow prevents them from making what they want, and it's just not true
My issue is with a lot of the recent drama surrounding this, people are personally seeking out artists and work that they don't like. Don't consume the content if you don't like it.
That's basically a good summary of the mindset behind most Twitter drama. These people want to frame themselves as these valiant morally right bringers of justice, but underneath they are just hungry parasites who feed off the misery and submission of random strangers they don't like. They're so desperate to find the smallest thing to be mad about so they can escalate it to sound far worse than it really is, to the point they have no problem destroying friendships and waving around someone else's deeply personal and private traumatic experiences to the public just to get that high of drama and attention. The sheer amount of inoffensive petty disagreements that have quickly escalated to children being doxxed is just the norm now and it sickens me to no fucking end.
I’m curious, what drama was this video about? I just want some context to the video
@@phobiaxz
If I’m not mistaken, 99 percent sure it’s:
ruclips.net/video/gX4Wlyqx24Q/видео.html
There’s a part two to the link above, too.
@@phobiaxz ruclips.net/video/gX4Wlyqx24Q/видео.html
@@phobiaxz this was about the drama surrounding Dollieguts, Ponder made two videos about it and why the main perpetrator of most of the accusations was well, using shitty evidence and was pretty damn incorrect and being stupid
The Cannibalism art piece is pretty accurate.
When most people say "Cannibalism is illegal" they say that because most known cannibals are sent to prison, but not for Cannibalism, they're sentenced for murder.
It's the act of killing someone or interfering with the body once dead that's illegal.
Even in some states where it's stated that it's illegal (Idaho was the only one I could find) they still make exceptions, like if it's an act of desperation.
It's an interesting art piece, and one I respect quite a lot for digging in the fine line of legality and morality.
I'm pretty sure eating a human body is itself illegal because I remember people not being able to eat their own flesh for a science experiment to figure out what human would taste like.
For anyone who wants to know more about the idaho thing:
"18-5003. Cannibalism defined - Punishment. (1) Any person who wilfully ingests the flesh or blood of a human being is guilty of cannibalism.
(2) It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of the provisions of this section that the action was taken under extreme life-threatening conditions as the only apparent means of survival.
(3) Cannibalism is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not exceeding fourteen (14) years.
History:
[18-5003, added 1990, ch. 210, sec. 2, p. 468.]"
@@neoqwerty I find it absolutely hilarious that I don't know the laws of my own country-
Thank you for informing me on this!
Cannibalism is illegal BUT if that person your eating says they want it and they survive the consumpton of they're flesh then you will not be in trouble legally.
Note: this is just in parts of the us, i dont know about elsewhere
I mean, cannibalism can't be made illegal because then survival situations are made legally tricky.
@@transsnack its illegal more so for the killing, and desecration of a body. If your in a SERIOUS situation like your trapped under rubble, no way out and you only have some dead body to eat that will likely be excused because it wasn't your intention to kill and eat someone.
This is a law ser more so for if they find you jacked some dude for his actual ribs.
1. How do people not like ponder’s art it’s so nice to look at the body inclusivity
2. FIGHT THEM KARENSSSS
Just a heads up, Ponder is a character and B is the creator who we're listening to in this video
I know, her anatomy is just *chef's kiss*
@@validark hush, we know that
@@validark yes. We know.
@@validark
cool im pretty sure the person called them like that because because of their username tho.
“W-what?! You draw a vent piece where your crying about losing a family member? That means your promoting MURDER!”
If you can’t tell, that’s a joke.
Also, just in case anyone tries to link Thumin’s situation to this video, know that the situation that ponder talked about was different from Thumin’s.
what happened to thumin :0
@@louise4152 She’s an artist who had to deal with racist attacks over a drawing she made. Just the basics.
@@Bacon-lover101 ohh, i thought something else happened. don't know why someone would link that to this though?
@Jacqueline Davis oh wow
You enjoy necromancy and dead people, how dare you, you bad evil Mcbad guy
Don't you know cults exist, educate YouRseLF
You are now cancelled!!
"If just seeing self harm(ect) in an artwork causes you to relapse, then maybe there are other issues at play. If you're young and impressionable, then you're probably too young to be looking at it"
AMEN!!
Art does not command ppl. It can involve feelings and thoughts, but ultimately it cannot force nor totally influence someone. We are not mindless sponges. Ppl forget that there are many factors at play when ppl do things, art never makes ppl do it, it's just an excuse for ppl already 'unstable' or looking for a push/justification.
You cannot blame the artist for the actions some random takes bc of their own subjectivity and personal life.
People when they see art with self harm made by a mentally ill person: NOOOO ROMANTICIZATION NOOOO like? have they never heard of using art as a coping mechanism?
I used to believe in "romanticization of mental illness" argument due to the rise of 13 Reasons Why, which poorly depicted the mental health and suicide issue, and while it's fair argument, nowadays I hate that argument to point out against artist that draw those things, because it just blocks artist to express themselves. Like shit, self-harm is already a big no-no thing to do, and through art, it doesn't harm one physical self. Sure, the art is negative, but that's the point, it is to make you feel uncomfortable, why would an artist sugarcoat their devastating situation, why would they censor it?
@@imaninamakhtar896 the issue with 13rw is being inaccurate representation of heavy subjects while trying to pass as accurate and as a guideline for young people on these. Otherwise, romantization and its severity depends on subject and beholder, at least so I think right now
Well I mean, usually that kind of stuff shouldn’t be posted.
yeah and then people will be like "IF THEY NEED TO DRAW CUTTING AS A COPING MECHANISM THEN THEY NEED TO GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GET HELP >:O" like,, damn. of course they need help but dont police what they draw
E X A C T L Y
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it is the INDIVIDUAL'S responsibility to disengage with upsetting content, not the CREATOR'S responsibility to cater to every potential trigger that a viewer may have.
We frankly have more tools now than ever to sort through content and avoid things we don't want to engage with. Too many people SEEK OUT upsetting or triggering content and then get INFURIATED that someone dared to create it.
You spoke my mind, my dude.
Hypervigilance is on hell of a drug
Dude can’t believe you just described the majority of fandom Twitter in your last sentence, anyways I agree whole heartedly. Many artists are just minding theirs own business
Reminds me someone tried to yell at another to TW smth with birds when the account was literally a bird account
@@shepthedep5862 People can have triggers that seem unrelated to outsiders but have some minor connection, so it triggers memories or actions. I myself with Trichotillomania can’t watch a specific episode of a /children’s cartoon/ I’m really into because it triggers the Trich and I start pulling my hair out. I’ve seen people in servers where that episode was requested to be put under spoilers with a warning start complaining about how ‘dumb’ it is. I wasn’t even the one who requested it and it made me feel like shit.
HOWEVER - with uncommon triggers like that, asking to put it on a blacklist in a Discord Server that requests images be put under a spoiler tag is COMPLETELY different from policing the Wild West of the whole internet.
That account being an account dedicated to birds has no reason to feel like it should cater to someone’s specific and very uncommon trigger. Especially since the trigger in question was the entire theme of the account like - just block the account.
I feel like the only type of art that Should Not Exist is hateful (specifically towards minorities, like racism and stuff) and nsfw art of real kids. Those are the two lines that I personally feel like shouldn’t be crossed. Other than that it doesn’t matter to me. Like obviously I think it’s okay to have healthy discourse about a subject, but wanting it to not exist is something else entirely.
True, but it’s important for some people to remember that in fiction, depicting a villain doing something truly evil and heart wrenchingly cruel doesn’t mean the author supports it? Like, I don’t get why in many of the reviews I watch of books and shows, there are people who insult a show for supporting these types of evils? Isn’t that . . . well. . . the point of a villain? Isn’t the nature of a villain in a story is a fictional character used as a tool to not do these types of things? Huh?
You are 100% correct.
Same here
@@biancaroxas1196 well of course, but there's a difference between depicting these things as harmful than encouraging them. It just people don't see the major difference between these things.
Yes, I agree!
THANK YOU PONDER!
There’s nothing that bothers me more than censorship of art. People seem to have lost all understanding of art’s true meaning, and that’s a tragedy. Let people draw what they want. It’s not hard to use the block button if you dislike a person’s work.
@Multivitaminburrit0 dont use snowflake, just makes u look like a egotistical numpty, but yeah
@Multivitaminburrit0 find more then two words , it helps your vocabulary
"I found your art and it makes me uncomfortable can you stop? People like me can really feel hurt by it!
Ah yes because, it's the ARTIST responsible to take care of you to learn to block the work.
Little story time. Just recently I've been getting more personal in my art and with these videos it really messed me up for a while as I thought my art was gross for expressing myself into it. With this I felt as if I didn't need to draw these which caused me a bit of stress. Gore art or any art can be used for coping to some and to tell a artist their work is uncomfortable and they shouldn't draw it can really be hurtful. I get that it might not be for everyone but, again you can just block this stuff and move on. Don't go yelling at artist and do yourself a favor and educate yourself wise ones.
This is why the art community can't have nice things.
@PhxntomGraffiti
Hello!! Love your content as well! You have a good day:))
@PhxntomGraffiti oh hey!
This reminds me of something that happened to a artist i follow on tumblr. They draw fat characters really nice and got an ask saying "I'm on a diet and seeing your art is making me get off my diet so stop drawing fat characters." T-the entitlement of people is crazy. I also draw fat characters so i cant wait to get a message like that one day , I'll just link them this video.
Edit: now the artist had to deal with someone telling them that their art is fetish art even doh the artist said it wasn't fetish art, but the person just double down and said " it has to be fetish art what other reason would you have to draw fat people and i feel embarrassed to open your art page in public" like that isn't the artist problem you feel that way. Why are people like this?
Why am I not surprised that this happened on tumblr?
@@creacherfeacher8232 I'm not that surprised myself i remember one time i was promoting that I'm doing commissions now and someone sent an ask saying that "tumblr isn't the site to promote commissions" even tho I've seem hundreds of people promoting commissions on the site, i know it was someone upset that they have to pay me to draw stuff for them now.
Of course it happened on Tumblr. Tumblr and Twitter are just the most toxic platforms. While I have only been on Toxic Tumblr once or twice, I know how bad it can get over there.
Wouldn’t it make sense to feel more inclined to stay on a diet if you see depictions of fat characters? Idk, maybe the human mind is more irrational than I thought.
I'd understand if anon asked if the artist could use trigger tags, but asking them to change the way they draw is ridiculous.
"Jokes on you, KINKSHAMING IS MY KINK."
--Farnese, Berserk
probably
Edit: Coming back to this after Twitter discovered Berserk and how "problematic" it is lol.
I won't be surprised that the same artists would praise Opal by Jack Stauber but in the same breath condemn artist they don't seem to understand
Those people probably barely saw Opal and just saw weird popular thing and latched on.
@@RampagingFlippy030 true, true
100% agree with everything you said here, I feel like I'm losing my mind everytime I log onto Twitter and see another artist canceling another artist bc they dared to draw one of their oc's too short next to their other oc and now it's pedophilia. It's ridiculous and I've seen that same scenario happen many times and I just don't get it ughh
Because everyone knows, if your below 6feet your OBVIOUSLY a child
And chibis/toony art styles dont exist
@@trashman11 me who struggles to draw age properly: I agree
Or that every character is a goody two shoes with pure intents
There's a lot of the big former pros in comics that have gone independent, like Ethan Van Sciver left DC and people on Twitter are like "haha, he's unemployed" and I'm sitting here thinking "the man's making millions of dollars drawing frogs and pretty women, what have you done?", and it makes them furious to think about the fact that he's making money doing something he loves and drawing whatever the fuck he wants to draw which just so happens to be frogs and pretty women!
@@trashman11 oh damn I guess I'm a child now cause I'm 4'11 lol. Also my bf is way taller than me so I guess he's a predator now/s
Therapy: Drawing will help you express your intrusive thoughts and help you deal with the struggle :)
Internet: uM??? You're fucking disgusting, is that bl00d gadjhskfhnajjd why would you draw yourself like that
Just thank you for this video. Like seriously, it's been a while since a bigger artist has stood up to this issue and it makes me very happy to hear this and everyone taking it well. :)
I love ur channel so much, it's such a breath of fresh air to hear you talk about issues such as this. Obviously, I have also had people gripe about my art when it contains certain subject matter (tho most of the criticism was aimed at my lack of TW, I'm aware. But there were some saying I shouldn't draw said subject matter at all.) So it's relieving to hear your take on this. It's inspiring. It makes me want to exercise my artistic expression through my future drawings. :D
Omg hi Synni lmao
Yeah I saw that drama but I hope you are doing ok now, you gave me comfort with your art :>
Hi Synni😀🖐
yep that drama was shit and im still a little mad about it even month´s later
it really urks me how people got mad that you drew your vent world because it was not your furry oc in a black and white setting crying with black out eyes
but hey it´s old drama now there is not point of getting mad over it still..........
The day I'm cancelled will become the day I ascend to the next level as an artist
That's the spirit
You are being cancelled for not having any RUclips videos i can jokingly cancel. (This is all a joke btw)
@@Justin-ul7fh this is just an "exploration channel", all the sauce is in my social medias
I remember an experimental text piece, called "the day the laughter stopped". it was so powerful, because it showed how victims of sexual feel like they have no choice but to endure the act, but after feel guilt over not being more assertive. it was supposed to be played by men, mostly, but i tried and it helped me figure out my own assaults. it is so important to have this uncomfortable pieces you can find yourself in and somehow figure shit out that you probably wouldn't have or would take a whole longer time otherwise.
The worse I've seen is claiming an artist is romanticizing mental health struggles
When the artist is showing their own mental health and mental illness
We seen multiple art peices from people with schizophrenia depict their hallucinations
Or that one artist with DID were one of their alters who is the only one who can remember their abuse has created art depicting what they had gone through
You cannot "romanticize" your own mental health struggles it's one of those things that is personal to you even if you have the same diagnosis
Because it's personal to the artist
Saying mentally I'll people aren't allowed to depict their mental illness or abuse is bordeline victim blaming
Mentally ill people and victims of abuse dosen't and shouldn't have to tone down their art for others personal comfort
Especially when their are trigger warning on it
As someone with DID, if one of my alters wish to draw their traumatic memories and share it, so be it. Anyone who tries to cancel my system can just...idk block and move on if the art makes you uncomfy
collect your “here during the premier” ticket here
:D
collected
I accidently ate it can i get another qwq
I'm rewatching again!
Collected
Just because there's a 8 inch difference between characters doesn't mean they're illegal lmao
Seems like people forget adults with shorter statutures with smaller and more softer facial features exist
I wonder if they call it pedophilia if a "normal" heighted person is with a person who has dwarfism.
@@urgae9125 I mean people with dwarfism have more distinguishable features than an adult who isn't of the average height
I can actually pass for a high schooler and many times strangers my mom introduces me and my sisters to assume I'm in high school due to my height and because I look quite young, when I'm actually a college student in her twenties and is about 5'3"
I’m a short person and literally passed by a grown ass man in the store who was smaller than me. By twitters logic he is a “child”.
@@urgae9125 If they try to “cancel” Mario and Peach istg😩😩
I wouldn't call myself a "highly cultured" artist or anything. but I went to an art museum several times in my 12-13-14 age range. one of the first times there, I saw something that scared me so bad it made me cry. the next few times I went, there was a Myth, Monsters, and Lore exhibit and so SO many pieces moved me to tears, I had my parents take me two more times. and although it had some very detailed and disturbing work, I couldn't look away and I'm very much of the belief that it changed how I see art. I definitely went through my keyboard warrior phase, but during that time I had lost touch of who I really was, and it was only until I became comfortable and confident in myself when I got myself out of it and back to seeing things from others' perspectives.
looking back, having social media be so important to me probably played a part of my keyboard warrior mindset.
(edit: HOLY SHIT "THE YOUNG FAMILY" WAS ONE OF THE SCULPTURES I SAW IN PERSON WHEN I WAS A YOUNG TEEN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR INCLUDING IT THANK YOU this wasn't one of the ones that made me cry, but it was one I couldn't look away from)
btw, art exhibit I went to see was in Nashville, TN at The Frist and it was called "Fairy Tales, Monsters, and the Genetic Imagination" a piece that made me just... sit there and cry was a claymation video that's available to watch on youtube. it's actually the official music video for Grizzly Bear's "Ready, Able" and the other piece of art that really stirred up discomfort was a photograph by Charlie White (no, not Critikal) called "Getting Lindsey Linton"(2001) it's a thinly veiled allusion to the mob mentality behind gang rape. if disturbing art doesn't bother you, I would highly recommend looking this exhibit up.
what does keyboard warrior mean , do you hit people on the street with keyboards??
@@Chappelroanfan armchair activists is a similar term - basically people, all they're doing is bickering online over useless things instead of doing useful things irl.
@@SorarikoMotone umm that seems unproductive
@@Chappelroanfan egg-sack-tly the point. They are useless in majority of cases
I'm so happy to see someone actually think this topic through and explain the nuances here. A friend of mine got mass reported and her account removed from Instagram for posting a self-portrait of herself that depicted her leg prosthetic and that was considered horrible to viewers. They told her she was sexualizing disability just for drawing herself in a normal, everyday outfit. Some people called the art "body horror", a term used for horror art depicting a mangled, repulsive human body, when in reality her body is perfectly healthy. And you know what? If seeing disabled people makes you uncomfortable, I do feel sorry for you, but that's YOUR problem to fix, not artists' problem to censor themselves for.
Dafuq did I just read?
Coming from someone who likes body horror, the fact those dumb idiots saw a disabled body as body horror tells me they wouldn't be able to handle actual body horror. They would not be able to handle it. Their minds would break upon seeing actual body horror.
jesus, i feel sorry for your friend
honestly disgusting how people think saying or doing that stuff is okay, if anything it reflects themselves, rather than the artist. how shameful
@@magicalroninDafuq did you write this comment?
It’s like saying “I don’t like the way you look, get plastic surgery”
I read “get plastic surgery” in the same fashion as “gEt bIgGeR hAnDs” from the Game Grumps DDLC playthrough, lol.
Ah, like the 90% of Instragram
@@pondersprocket2274 oh my god i've been laughing at this for the past 5 minutes
It's important to note that the people with such black-and-white views of art (and the world in general) are, for the most part, children. With time and new experiences they will grow to appreciate the value of art that pushes their boundaries and learn that there are people & cultures in the world wholly alien to them, and that that's okay.
Rock on, Ponder. Hope you're in good spirits!
The sad part is that most *are* adults and I've seen children with higher brain capacity!
Yes, but there are still some adults out there, really. Generally people who are taught that everything has to stay child friendly or family friendly, even after 18. It’s like the world wants everyone to stay children sometimes. Perhaps that’s why people will often still act like children even to adulthood sometimes.
I know a lot of artists that make negative/dark art to vent about their traumas, not once have I personally witnessed or picked up the vibe they draw gore/generally intense art because they're sadistic and out to hurt people or convince them that the trauma they went through was Good, Actually.
Personally, I was harassed for drawing horror art and the person harassing me kept making weird, passive aggressive statements about how I was somehow objectively scary and malicious for what amounted to venting in the form of weird drawings that not everyone will like. IRL I'm pretty quiet and boring, people wouldn't be able to guess I draw body horror from time to time. Just about about every horror fan I'm friends with are pretty mellow and do stuff like garden, knit and cook on their free time.
Really this sorta attitude seems to amount to closed mindedness, entitlement, petty hatred and ignorance and it's exactly why art history is so important and why it's so asinine to accuse artists of malicious intent based entirely on what they draw when everyone is so vastly different and have completely different beliefs and experiences. When I hear "your art triggers people, take it down" or some variation I basically hear "this doesn't line up with my personal beliefs/experiences so it shouldn't exist, I'm the main character of YOUR life"
And yeah artists that are legitimately abusive and dangerous do exist, but I'm not talking about that specifically, just to make myself clear.
tbh even if an artist draws gore because they like to see characters suffering, that doesn't mean they like seeing suffering in real life
It's called projection, they get morally uppity about it because they got monsters in their closet and it makes them feel better to be the moral police for something they feel is "worse" because it makes them feel better.
Source: an extreme body horror dude whose worst IRL crime is eating pineapple on pizza.
Yeah, I'm not generally one for gore and violence, but I'm legitimately glad that I have experienced the art of Kentaro Miuro in Berserk. I don't know what life experiences led him to writing and drawing this absolute masterpiece, but it helped me acknowledge my deepest fears and traumas that a more sanitized story just plain wouldn't. Before he died, he went as far as to call his manga a shoujo because of the emotional emphasis on the characters. Facing our own vulnerability is scary and ugly, and I think that's the brilliance of violent art.
As a fellow horror artist, the most exciting thing I did this week was have a glass of wine.
also… a lot of artists make the disclaimer that their art is vent art… so people basically can’t read i guess?
God, I hate people saying it’s romanticizing scars to display them.
Like, if you find that showing scars promotes them, this is not a normal persons belief and YOU are the issue.
My characters have some of my traits. Meaning that some have sh scars. This is not f3t1sh1zing them, this is showing an aspect of my body that I’m putting onto my characters as a way to express myself and my body.
whenever someone asks me to trigger tag old s/h scars as “tw self harm” i block them, lmao. sorry for having remnants of who i used to be i guess?
I feel like it's borderline necessary to put trigger warnings on work that it's appropriate for, but damn, I relate to this so much. I jsut found out what traumacore was and loads of people were belittling those who are apart of iti because they were "fetishizing their illness." You know what I saw? As a traumatized person, I saw people who experienced the same pain I had. The thoughts they had written down on the art were thoughts they had during that memory, which is important for emotional processing. The fact they used dark blotches or something else like a sticker to represent themselves was exactly how I felt, like I wasn't in that moment and like I was untethered to my surroundings. My therapist had literally suggested I to this to help me heal from my own memories! These people were LITERALLY using healthy coping skills and had all the same symptoms I had and they were written off as "fakers looking for attention." ugh
ATTENTION ALL NEW ARTISTS!
If your vent art that depicts self harm and a bad mental health makes someone uncomfortable rather than seen, your not a bad person, your art was just discovered by the wrong audience!
thank you ponder!! i’m absolutely sick of twitter and tiktok kids believing that if they think it’s weird or uncomfortable then it shouldn’t be allowed to exist for anyone.
I keep legit thinking of leaving TikTok and Twitter. I have to stay for the memes though… 😔✊🏻
God, thank you SO much for addressing it. I dealt with so much crap for my domestic abuse vent piece.
I drew a girl removing make up and wounds being beneath it, but she's smiling because her partner used lipstick to write "I love you" on the mirror. I wanted to show how I used to ignore the pain inflicted upon me, because she made me feel loved.
Of course some people thought it's about romanticism of domestic abuse.
Something like that happened in Madness Combat Twitter a while back. Basically an artist drew a piece which depicted a character from that series gaslighting the other into killing. The artist got accused of promoting gaslighting and abuse, as well as "being a proshipper". If you have no idea what MadCom is about, it's basically old school newgrounds bloody mass murder, so I have no idea why anyone would be mad about dark themes explored in fan art if they're a fan of fucking Madness Combat.
Imagine being mad that someone depicted gaslighting but *not* that they depicted *murder.*
Bruh, if anything, that would be thematically appropriate for Madness Combat
@@pondersprocket2274 I feel like people, especially younger people tends to be more sensitive towards dark art regarding relationships and romantic stuff, which of course doesn’t make their outrage correct or justified but still.
MADNESS COMBAT MENTIONED anyway i used to write (now deleted bc of the harassment i got) what’s basically cannibalism fetish with san and dei and people kept calling me proship for it even tho the whole thing was consensual and dei was revived after……. 😭😭😭
art doesn't have to be all aesthetically cute babies, art can also be trevor henderson on steroids. i wonder how those folks would think about artists who intentionally have fucked up and gross artstyles
plus, this also applies to music too. i wonder how those people would even react to shit like the downward spiral, which talks about a nihilist's dwindling mental health until he outright kills himself and the music itself is specifically designed to be avversive? [EVEN THE ALBUM LITERALLY STARTS OFF WITH A SONG THAT INTENTIONALLY SOUNDS LIKE SHIT]
or how about the wall, which depicts a former rockstar mentally walling himself out from everybody until he snaps, starts thinking he's a nazi [IT'S SHOWN IN GRAPHIC DETAIL.], and gets sent to a mental hospital?
@@shrugsmemes917 I agree so much with the whole TDS thing, but don’t you dare diss Mr. Self Destruct man ;w; (joke)
Wow, good to know I'm not a horrible person for drawing Gore.
I was physically abused by my mother, and oddly enough, doing gore (mildly) is a coping mechanism to what I saw and dealt with. The fact that people think and thought this was vile and disgusting made me question myself and if I was a horrible person.
I hate the community sometimes.
Quick Edit: I am fine don't worry, I've lived with my amazing pops since I was 12 (when we moved out) and he's giving me a good life.
Good for you and your pops man.
Art with uncomfortable and disturbing subject matter should be kept out of the wrong places and properly tagged, but *that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.*
I cannot stop coming back to this video and watching it fully over and over again, it’s so perfectly structured and laid out in such a professional and creative manner. And even funny at times too, it’s astounding, thanks for uploading this.
As an artist myself I honestly wish people would realize that most artists do not paint/draw for them. We don't create to please the masses recreate to please ourselves. To place our experiences whether they be the good bad and ugly on canvas and we place them on display to show the world that we are human and we experience things, instead of letting it fester inside of our own mental minds we put it on canvas to show the world that things like this do happen / exist. Most well known artist were severely mentally ill, some had schizophrenia others had severed depression and it shows in their work. Art is subjective it's supposed to make you feel things. It's a way of expressing what that artist felt at the time, and to get butt hurt because you don't like how the artist bepicts their work is just plain stupid. By your logic we have to censor 85% of known art in this world.
I blame some art "gurus" on YT and even some art teachers who say something along the lines of "if you want to be a well-known artist, you have to draw for others before yourself" which is a dangerous thing to say because it creates what you and Ponder talked about.
Yes, to a potential client the art is for them, however, most artist will create things for themselves and if people like the work enough, more will come. It's a strange yet infuriating conundrum.
I can't tell you how sick I am of reading TH profile warnings that say "Don't take inspiration from my art/characters, it will get you blacklisted" Like, I don't know about anyone else- But rarely does my inspiration ever come from one person or thing alone. Any "inspiration" I end up taking, I have no clue where it's from because it's just a mix of details/aesthetics I've stumbled upon that my eyes and brain went "OO, D e l i c i o u s"
dude, this. i don't mean to he rude to those artists who put those warnings, but I think they need to realize that they don't own the traits they use on their characters, and thus shouldn't be so possessive of them. I mean yeah don't blatantly rip off someone else's OC, but taking inspiration is just a straight up no-no? even if its just a little? some of the ocs with that warning are pretty simplistic design wise too so it's kind of ridiculous
i think most people like that confuse inspiration with copying. it’s shitty to copy someone’s entire character, but taking inspiration is normal and even happens subconsciously, like my friend, she made a character who’s a 35 year old scientist but looks like ren amamiya. she liked persona but hadn’t gotten the game at that point, so she didn’t even realize until i made a joke about it.
to me it sounds like they think inspiration means HEAVY inspiration or direct copying, when really it’s not.
You can tell the artists saying certain art that makes you uncomfortable shouldn't exist/allowed to be shared NEVER took an art history class or stepped into an art museum before. Art history teaches you about art over in history (duh), and you see the kind of art that were provocative and terrifying (even the tame ones) people made as a way of expressing their internal struggles to show to the world.
Art museums also have galleries of different themes, and sometimes "uncomfortable" shows are usually the most popular because people love seeing into the mind of an artist with their conflict, and try to play therapist in seeing the works. Hell, people make their artworks specifically to showcase then in galleries.
To tell someone not to do these kinds of work, whether it's blatant or hidden, is harmful to the artist. This is their outlet the same way pretty pictures with rainbows is someone else's outlet. People, especially minors trying to play savior, need to get a grip and understand this.
This is why I'm only showing my art on my own website and blog posts because places like IG, Twitter, TT, etc really don't understand art can be and is everything. It's not always SFW happy times, cupcakes.
There’s sm hate for people who draw sh, especially if it’s mixed with cute aspects. It makes me angry and I know I don’t have to explain why I draw what I draw to strangers on the internet but I just want them to understand that my intention is not to sexualize or romanticize sh! My art is a reflection of me as a person! I do sh sometimes, and I feel horrible about it. I’m depressed and seek comfort in pink and cute stuff to try and feel happy. I show the irony in my art by contrasting sh and cute stuff because I think it’s super ironic and I know sh is bad but I don’t know how to stop. It’s just a coping mechanism and idk I just wish people weren’t so quick to cancel artists for drawing stuff they deem unacceptable :(
another thing that these people do is "if it's trauma art why is it public? you should cope PRIVATELY. I am VERY smart" the virtue signaling and performative activism that goes on nowadays is so stupid and pathetic. like, i genuinely don't believe any of these people care about anyone but themselves and it's embarrassing at this point. like imagine someone ranting about vent art or literally anything else that can be considered taboo in art in PUBLIC. People are so privileged they worry about the most mundane shit. People are dying, children are being sold like fucking commodities elsewhere and you're here screaming about an anime SHORTSTACK?
I agree so much! a part of healing is coming to acceptance that trauma is normal for all people to go through, and people can accept those ways differently - I know people who coped through multiple situations via making it known they had such issues, like an abusive partner - because even if it seems insensitive, it's okay to let go sometimes. Bottling up your emotions is one of the worst things you can do trying to cope.
The only reason they say this is because they don't belive the art is valuable
You don't see people get mad at
Yayoi Kusama who draws those dot designs to cope with her schizophrenia
You don't see people demanding
Kim Noble's art to be taken down in galleries because it depicts the mass abuse they faced as a child that caused them to develop DID
The only reason they have a problem with internet artist who does it is because they are easier to reach and harras
Mentally ill people and abuse victims shouldn't have to censore their art to fit into the comfort of other people
I have to take a culture class (basically be good, don't be mean to others and you have to agree what is in the book) and one thing that is brought up a lot is the fact that we need to talk more about discrimination, and I agree that we need to be more open with uncomfortable moral concepts, and come to face that we as humans are not perfect. There are always going to be things that make people uncomfortable, and I like to indulge in that area when story writing. I have a series that I want to make that will be very graphic, violent and show generally immoral concepts.
We don't need to normalize the bad things happening, we need to normalize discussions and artistic representation of these bad things. This way we can learn of these horrible events and the general negative reaction to them, will incite an equal action to stop that even from reoccurring.
It’s so sad that people act like this, I personally want to make art pieces on my own personal traumas but due to my more simplistic and cutesy style it’s disappointing to say that I’d have the risk of being called a pedo despite being a minor myself.
Honestly, I strongly agree with everything in this video. It's felt more and more like your art has to be perfect to be worthy of being on the internet. I've seen artists get harassed over the stupidest things, it makes the desire to post things fight with my anxiety about it.
Btw: I love noodle cutie, 10/10 would buy them all the noodles.
I misread this and got SO CONFUSED
@@clay1441 Which part was confusing? Just want to know if I should edit it. :)
@@mori_in_space3475 it looks like you’re saying this video is hard to agree with. I’d suggest changing it to “I strongly agree”
@@mori_in_space3475 for me I read “hard agree” as “hard to agree” :^D
Thanks for letting me know! I edited it so hopefully it's more clear.
babe wake up new comfort video just dropped!!! im sooo happy that you spoke on this purity crisis in the online art community, i completely understand when people get upset when theres an actual problem but when you create problems in order to politically assassinate people's reputations because of petty friend drama or because ONE person got their feefees hurt, it becomes a much larger problem with more nuance than people are willing to acknowledge. it makes me really happy when creators i know speak out about it because it's really toxic, and is usually the start of cancel culture.
Why is it that most modern “artists” nowadays seem to loathe the idea of freedom of expression? I can’t consider someone an artist if they’d want to exclude an artform because of “muh sensibilities.” Don’t like it? Don’t interract and move on.
They also bring up "BUT MUH OPINION" card
They're brainwashed
I never understood the "it makes me uncomfortable, therefore it is bad" mentality.
If it makes you uncomfortable, that's okay. You don't have to like it. But other people do. Other people might relate to it and find some relieve in it, or just morbid curiosity. Don't think you are special enough to take something away from others just becouse YOU feel uncomfortable!
There are things that make me uncomfortable too. Like, I don't like over the top gore. That doesn't mean I can't recognize when something is well drawn. And once every 20th or so picture there might even be some that I like becouse it is morbidly beautyfull in it's composition. (Hell, I'd be a total hipocrit if I would clame I never drew slight gore before myselfe xD) Just becouse I don't like the over the top stuff, doesn't mean that things like candy-gore, photorealist-gore or anything similar should stop existing. That's not how art works.
And not just art as in drawings! How extremly limited would we be if we outlawed everything that made anyone uncomfortable in story telling?! Say goodby to vilains, to main characters with relateable struggles or terrible pasts, goodby to crimis and horror, goodby to fairy tails, literally goodby to every thing in story telling that exists! Becouse if you want to take everything away that could make even one person uncomfortable, there would be nothing left besides card board cut outs of characters and bland slice of live "every thing is perfect" storys.
Okay, besides the grammatical errors, i agree with you
This video helps me to stop feeling guilty for having special interests that can be problematic for some people, thanks ponder, now I can enjoy what I want
TL;DR, calm down, son. It’s just a drawing
Lol, rev says so reference
Tumblr dying and sending eveyone over to Twitter was a mistake
Tumblr isn’t dead. The worst people left for Twitter when they banned p0rn.
As someone who attended a very traditional arts college, good GOD none of these people would survive their first semester. Piss Christ, an image of a statue of the crucifixion submerged in urine, was one of the first pieces I remember having a big impact on me, mostly because I thought it was funny that it was All That. My teacher discussed it in how Christ is usually depicted with other bodily fluids, namely tears, blood, and milk, so like, piss is just an extension of that idea, and it has some really interesting depth behind it. It was also probably made if not intending to, then fully aware of how it would, offend certain communities, especially due to the time being 1987. But there were plenty of others whose names I have forgotten that have certainly had an impact on me in making me uncomfortable, for whatever reason. SO yeah, next time you see anyone like this, just like. make them see Piss Christ.
People need to understand what “grooming” and “pedo” actually mean, I’ve seen so many people use them wrong. If an artist, who has been through trauma copes by creating a character based on themselves/ their trauma, it’s not a character to pander to any types of group, it’s a coping mechanism. Some things can be triggering on a character, which is why in CERTAIN situations, a TW is needed, but for people to accuse someone of pandering to fucking pedophiles by using a character, BASED ON YOUR TRAUMA WITH PEDOPHILES/ ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS/ SH, and say that that character is attracting the sort of behaviour you went through, glamorising it, completely undermines that persons trauma. I was SA’d at age 8. If I had a character to cope with that trauma, I would make them a child. Because I was a child. According to others logic, by using that character, I would be appealing to pedo’s because I used that character not to express how much SA hurt me as a child, not to open up and try and cope, but to appeal to the very people who tore my life apart. Ironic, isn’t it? Characters created for the purpose of trauma or songs that reflect trauma are valid, and idiots who have no idea what that character reflects can fuck off with their awful accusations.
I despise the Human Centipede films. I feel it's horror for horror's sake and disturbing purely to disturb, and I do not see the value in them. But to say that they simply should not exist because I don't like them is IDIOTIC. With the exception of illegal or objectively immoral art, to say it shouldn't exist is a new level of ignorance.
Off topic, but on the artist in question and self harm scars in general: can we please stop trying to say that people having or portraying visible self harm scars is bad? It's vile. I am allowed to draw myself with my scars, I am allowed to wear short sleeves or shorts even though it means my scars are visible.
edited my comment to be more clear about the illegal part i meant //
i absolutely agree with both ! just because you dont like something doesn't mean it should not exist ( unless its actual stuff that can actively harm ppl like cp and snuff ) , maybe its not just for you.
also it really baffles me when people say " showing or having self harm scars is bad !!!! >:((( " not realizing they could potentially hurt others by it, like are you trying to help them or just make them feel bad ?
But what measures can we use to say which pieces of art are illegal?
@@uuhhhahahahahajahahha Uh, the law? There is some fuzzy ground but in the US it's pretty clear what art is illegal. Snuff, explicit images of real minors or what a reasonable person would believe is depicting a child, and so on.
If you're asking how we as a society determine what SHOULD be illegal, dude, I'm not the right person to ask. Go talk to a philosophy major.
@@Kralisedra the problem if that laws for art change way too much in every country
It’s strange, this bubble of restricting things/thoughts to only exacerbate them. I appreciate your defenses
I want to show this to tik tok that right now thinks any type of art that isn’t wholesome is romanticising abuse/selfharm/etc
I’m autistic + hypersexual, and I used to do nsfw art of characters of media I was hyper fixated on, and I got quite a bit of backlash from it. I hardly do art anymore, but I still enjoy nsfw art. And I’m gonna do what I’m like with these characters AND NOTHING CAN STOP ME!!! 💖💖💖
This mentality literally prevented me from spreading my creative wings for a long time
it is a breathe of fucking fresh air hearing this omfg
literally felt so alone, even though i knew that the tactics made by these people to try and convince others to be as bad as they are wont work on me. i saw right through them when they try and send death threats, say they're "helping" minors when they actively send death threats and doxx them if they oppose their opinion. to see a comment section with more than 4 people agreeing makes me happy, knowing that there is a light through the tunnel
It’s so wild that this video came out like 2 years ago and the current art and anime scene on Twitter is all about making artists suffer for daring to depict darker themes. There were a bunch of people just the other day attacking an upcoming anime about a father trying to rescue his daughter from child traffickers for depicting child trafficking!
It’s just crazy. I hate the internet right now in terms of art.
I can only say: "we live in a society" don't we?
Why. I agree with you but... Why
I remember when I was 9-12 years old and being actively abused, every year I had a sketchbook that I hid from everyone that was full of vent art, gruesome poetry, and even art studies where I'd draw nude figures, and at the end of the year I'd throw that sketchbook out because I felt so bad for drawing those things. Sometimes the pictures in that sketchbook weren't even bad, they were just a character not being happy - I regret throwing those sketchbooks out because my art grew so much because of them. I wish I wasn't so ashamed for making art.
This was a really well made video, actually. I've seen far too many cases of "This art makes me uncomfortable or is morally wrong, therefor it cannot exist!" mostly on Twitter, but it does happen elsewhere. I've also seen a LOT of people claim they care about CSA victims or victims of abuse, only to turn on those same victims should they not cope in a way that's deemed 'ok'. People sometimes cope in ways that you might not agree with, for example coping with their abuse through art or writing, but that's FAR better than ever resorting to physical harm.
I also see a ton of "I don't like this art, therefore you're a pedo!" and it's tiring. People forget that yes, short petit adults DO exist and can be portrayed in art without being a child. As a short person myself, I'd be considered - and I quote - "Minor Coded" and thus anybody attracted to me would be a predator, even if I'm of age. Besides, at the end of the day, it's up to people to avoid content they don't like and to not purposefully seek it out.
One last thing I see too often is the protection of imaginary, fictional characters over REAL people. I've seen people be genuinely harrassed to the point of self-harm all over a fictional ship or art of a fictional character that's deemed "morally wrong." It's all performative. People claim to care about 'protecting the children' or 'doing what's morally good' but then go on to harming real life people in the attempt to protect imaginary ones, as if removing all murder stories from the world would suddenly make murder not exist.
Apologies for the long comment, I really enjoyed the video.
Seriously, even if you find the ship & art gross or uncomfortable, that's STILL not a reason to tell people to kms or try to ruin their lives over it.
People keep saying that I'm disgusting for my 'pedo' or 'proshipper' art style like what? Just because I draw a certain way doesn't make me these things and it's so gross and really takes the fun out of drawing :( no group of people should 'own' an art style it's so stupid it makes my brain melt
bro thats so fucked up. theres actual people out there who draw cp shit and theyre going after u for an art STYLE? please try to not let them get to you, if you like the style keep drawing in that style, fuck the loud idiots
Ppl get on the internet and just say shit, there is no "proshipper art style" and im sure your work is completely fine
i know this is an old comment, but lately antis are now spreading misinformation with "pro" in proshipper meaning "problematic" and it's like...whut? 💀 so is pro-choice "problematic choice" then? so many antis have the literacy that can rival a toddler istg... then again what can we expect from the more rabid people who equate random pngs and jpegs to real crime LOL
Pedo art style? What the actual fuck are they on?
i think proship/antiship is stupid anyway, because really it's not that black and white
This is a great reminder to make more weird art. I've gotten a bit too comfortable just drawing characters. I've been really into weirdcore music lately, it would be cool to make art using the same aesthetic
There’s a difference between Kikuo and Shadman.
Kikuo as in the vocaloid music Kikuo? Why would people be comparing them?
@@Anne-ot8gq According to the comments, kikuo made some vent art about a victim of bullying falling in a twisted sorta love with their bully. People pretty much attacked him for it and he had a full blown panic attack. My point was there’s a difference between people who make disturbing content as a vent and people who make disturbing content for pleasure. I hope this cleared things up.
@@titty.skittles9534 ah, i see. Thank you. the purpose of the art doesnt matter imo. If kikuo drew it just because he wanted to without venting reasons then thats okay. Shad drew nsfw of real people without consent and even real kids, thats what made it wrong.
@@Anne-ot8gq Percisely.
Im so tired of people trying to morally justify their opinions.
That's what a lot of this is, people can't just say they don't like a thing, they have to PROVE why they don't like it, and make everyone else agree with them to make them feel justified in not liking it.
It's backwards, insulting, and getting more and more common.
Note to everyone, but specifically artists:
YOU DON'T NEED A REASON TO DISLIKE SOMETHING. YOU DON'T NEED TO JUSTIFY OR MORALIZE YOUR PREFERENCES. ITS OK FOR SOMETHING TO JUST EXIST EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
Why do you feel like it's wrong to look for people who feel the same? As ponder says in the video, humans love relating to others, and I don't think it's wrong to want to know how many people agree with you. By posting this comment, aren't you also looking to get confirmation your opinions are the right ones? If you find no one is agreeing with you for example you might start to think, oh maybe my opinion is wrong, and you might start to reflect on your opinion. Dogmatically believing what you believe is bad, in my opinion. I think it's totally fine to say why you don't like something; isn't that more constructive than saying "I don't like it because I don't like it?". Why is it insulting? I am not trying to antagonize you, I am asking for clarification.
@@-vhydra-1252 That's completely unrelated to what I'm saying though. That's the problem.
I am plainly saying, stop judging others for what they like and dislike and trying to prove why they are wrong, and stop trying to prove yourself to others based on what you like and dislike.
It has nothing to do with relating to people, and everything to do with accepting your interests and disinterests without feeling like you have to create a moral high ground for having those interests to begin with.
Summarized: Dude, it's ok you like or don't like something, but don't take it out on others because they disagree with you and try to prove they are wrong for doing so.
The cool thing about the internet is that you can block people who make stuff you don't like. I do it all the time to deter stupid algorithms from showing me stuff I don't like. No hard feelings towards the people who make it.
My therapist literally ENCOURAGED me to express my trauma and depression through my art. You know what happened when I made vent art about my trauma? I didn't feel the need to hurt myself physically, or drink or smoke! Saying that making art about self harm, suicidal thoughts/ideations and depression is "promoting self harm etc" is such bs when it literally does the opposite.
I stayed away from self harm for a literal decade, and never attempted suicide because I listened to extremely sad and angry music. I listened to songs that literally depicted murder and self harm, but it never made me wanna do that stuff. It was a vent to express my anger and sadness, to feel less alone, to feel seen. It could make me cry, scream, sob, and then I would feel a lot better afterwards.
These artists sound like the people that blamed Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shootings, because the students liked his music.
Ah yes, the “only do things my way” mindset.
Kind of on the same line but sort of different, I remember there was a woman on twitter who said that fanfiction writers are responsible for the feelings and development of their readers and it was a whole rant about how if your wrote sex in your fanfiction it had to be depicted as realistic because some young readers might get the wrong idea about sex for their future relationships. She got absolutely clowned on in replies and retweets but it was surprising to see how many people agreed with her.
Sorry to all the people who write and draw monster fucking. You're just not allowed to anymore according to this woman
I’d get the questioning if the fanfic writers were adults who knew their audiences were children, but even then you can’t prove it yourself by just assuming.
Erin Clover, Vee, there's so many names that I can think of that people canceled simply because their art hurt someone's feelings.
Bruh Vee went through so much shit. They didn't deserve any of this, they're a absolute sweetheart
@@izachi-chan2432 What happened with Vee?
@@windowcreeperbird9669 they were harassed, doxxed, sa, and black listed from the animation community all due to them hiding their art from their sfw acc and being called out thousands of times from these people.
I am so glad to see that I’m not the only one who gets angry when people try to censor art they dislike or attack the artist that made it. For me, art has always been about venting in a way, and to see people raging over someone releasing their emotional anguish into their work (without hurting themselves or others), is crazy to me. Never been able to understand why people freak out so much about artistic expression or why this type of freaking out is gaining popularity
I believe it stems from Tumblr circa 2016
@@YanoLBP yeeeaaah probably. 2016 was a weird year
* tumblr circa 2012, but, yeah basically.
(See also: the Voltron Fandom)
The internet is also generally WAAAY better at art curation and tagging than real world art exhibits. Imagine these people walking a museum and seeing the MANY, MANY depictions of sexual assault. There few, if any warnings there, as opposed to online where it is seen generally in good taste to leave a little warning or tag the contents so people can avoid it if it would harm them.
This video means a lot to me. The RUclips “art community” is so focused on putting a spotlight on individual artists to beat the piss out of because of what they make. It constantly feels like people just want a new target. It’s ironic because of how hateful and malicious these videos are despite them accusing the artists of promoting dangerous behaviors.
This is why I tend to avoid art videos altogether because I don’t want to support people who indulge in destructive “criticism” as a form of social media attention seeking and revenue. You are now the exception. Thank you.
My, my, the quote “If it makes me uncomfortable therefor it shouldn’t exist” sure does remind me of a certain platform..I wonder what it could be! :Eyes Twitter.:
I know, right? It's on the tip of my tongue, has to do with a "twit"...?
(Yes, I know I used the easy joke. No, I don't take it back.)
@@mistahjenkins4826 I laughed harder at this than I should have.
If these types of people managed to somehow become president, they would be dictators, which is also composed of the same people apparently against those types of corruption in the system. Imagine. No freedom of expression anymore. The countries they would lead would be screwed.
"It's too uncomfortable and disturbing, that isn't art!"
They had never seen Saturn Devouring His Son, Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan on 16 November 1581 or even Picasso's Guernica and it shows
what the hell are any of those and why would i know them
@@Spacething7474 /j ?
@@hiide0us123 /srs, i have never heard of a single art piece mentioned, and i wouldnt know nor would i care why this helps original posters argument
@@Spacething7474 So... Because you've somehow never heard of any of these very well known pieces (how tf do u do that i'm legit impressed. Saturn eating his son has been a meme for a while), their argument is somehow invalidated?
It's not complicated : Disturbing art has always been a thing and a lot of it is admired and considered "classic", so wanting to censor a random internet artist is stupid.
@@hiide0us123 stuff considered "classic" is all subjective from person to person. i have no idea what that meme is by the way.
"censor" LOL. all id do is mock takes about art that seem dumb. like for example, ponder tweeted like yesterday about some rottmnt video where its teenage uploader described their age in a pinned comment because they called them hot or somethin and good ol brooke snider complained 'bout them being "not real!!!!!" turtles and some other junk and that it shouldnt of lead to the uploader leaking personal info? or something like that lol
but what can we expect about the lady who admitted in detail to drawing aged up pr0n of dexter from 's labratory to win an argument about a cropped nsfw thumbnail of jellybeans sona
I'm totally guilty of overreacting to things like this in the past and it's so embarassing. It kinda hit me a little while ago that it's absolutely nuts that the common online consensus about art is that it needs to be "moral." We're welcoming in the corporate censorship of the internet with open arms.
*"Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."*
-Cesar A. Cruz
Rewatching this video and omfg, I wish more people would listen to this.
The Tiktok art community does it the WORST imo. Artist getting harassed and canceled for something as minor as a cartoon art style or a name they gave their oc. It's horrid.
Art tiktok is a blight, fucking hell. Im glad I quit tiktok, its just not worth it anymore. I've seen them enable art thieves who sell stolen work and openly brag about stealing art to avoid paying for it, but they have no issue dragging artists over such non issues. They're so backwards, I swear.
I'll be honest, i used to think gross and disgusting art should never exist because many of the people online around me slammed that into my head just being in the same servers as them. Now? I don't care. Draw what ya want! Doesn't hurt me, and so I could literally care less lol
fantastic video!
to be honest, over the past few months i've became a lot more critical about my point of view about concepts in art and censorship. theres definitely a *lot* i'm uncomfortable with, and i think i will always turn my nose at, but at the same time it's art. the artistic merit is there even if i may not see it, and i think that needs to be recognized.
i think a really good example is definitely weegee. i say him as an example because i have been doing research about his photography for class. his portfolio covers crime scenes- it's brutal. but the intention behind it and knowing weegee had so much love for his city that he wanted to show all aspects of it- even the most unglamorous- is what really drew me in.
I feel like there's people who are losing sight of the fact that an artists most important right is to freely express themselves through their work.
Like universities and art colleges actually encourage art students to explore disturbing and sometimes graphic themes with their projects. In most of the art classes I took, the professors had to put a warning at the beginning of the syllabus to warn about the potential themes and topics students were allowed to explore. They never forbid disturbing topics or themes as long as the artist handled it in a respectful or interesting manner.
Like, I became desensitized to a lot of topics and learned a lot about said topics because of art pieces I saw during college. It’s stupid to try and censor art especially if they have those topics associated with them.
Let's also not forget false P-word accusations over fictional kids that don't freaking exist.
This video actually helped me feel better about expressing myself and thanks for talking about this.
Plus dang it's informative. .o.
What makes it worse when they equate artwork of that nature to freaking CP even when the law has made it clear their is a difference between the two, plus people reporting that type of art including fictional characters acting they aren’t taking away resources from actual victims who might need it.
It’s just…so dumb it makes me want to scream.
In the words of the allmighty tallest from Invader Zim: "They didn't make it so you could like it."
When I was younger I drew tons of art depicting my gender dysphoria and mental health, a lot of it being gore vent art. It was something that I became ashamed of because my peers in art classes found it disturbing and perpetuated the idea I "shouldn't be drawing it" at all even if I tagged it and forewarned people before showing it. The idea that art shouldn't exist because its disturbing is silly, I go to art college now and there are people in my classes who are uncomfortable with much less disturbing things than I was drawing, a prime example being nudity or pregnant women.
I really enjoyed this video and it opened my eyes to the possibility of my own faulty arguments when it comes to art I personally dislike, wonderful as always Ponder
to add (ive seen this video like three times):
saying that the art will CREATE those kinds of situations/people (ex. saying shit like lolicon will create groomers/pedos or that drawings of self harrm will create self harm, however the former is much more commonly spouted) is not only actively false, it blames the MATERIAL for the abusive actions of others and takes all responsibility away from the abuser. by that logic POKEMON should be banned because it "caused" my grooming at 16. Pokemon did NOT GROOM ME, GROOMERS DID. by stating the MEDIA creates the abusers not only gives abusers a get-out-of-jail-free card, it blames the fucking victim for consuming "problematic" content.
not to mention if your personal view of reality is so thin that seeing controversial subjects depicted in art (like noncon, incest, lolicon, self harm, etc.) will make you think its ok (or make you think others will think its ok, which is honestly just projection in its finest) that says more about YOU than the person who made the piece. most people who make this content arent doing it to normalize it, you making a big stink and harassing people is more normalizing than the piece just... existing.
and the fact people will always only go after indie artists with no way to defend themselves means its inherently malicious and they dont really care for keeping young people safe, especially since these kinds of people are always ACTIVELY SENDING THIS SHIT TO KIDS. especially pedophilic content. THEY SEND THAT TO CHILDREN TO PLAY PEDO HUNTER. if you think something is CP you wouldnt fucking do that. theyre the ones grooming kids by making them think harassment over literal fiction over ok, people just drawing these things publicly arent inherently grooming kids by making problematic content. As a grooming and multiple rape victim, that's not how it works and if you think it does, that speaks more to your fragile sense of reality than it does anyone else. get therapy and get over yourself if you truly think its ok to harm people over their artistic pieces. you dont know why they make it, maybe theyre doing it because its a coping mechanism. i know thats how i cope, and its healthy. stop making it a problem that people are making content you dont like. thats quite literally the first step to the fascist mentality, thinking its ok to censor anything you dont personally like. you motherfucking hypocrites (i am speaking to a general "you" not necessarily anyone reading this. but if you read this and get offended, then you're the exact person this is directed at. dont like? dont look. simple. curate your fucking feed)
Facts 👩🎤
As starnge as it sounds i feel very "seen" by that content and use it to cope, tberes so many people talking down on it but not nearly as many speaking about the actual irl experience of grooming or being assualted by siblings and things like that. I see it now more than ever with the "proship" "antiship" shit where people victim blame and make assumptions about others morals based on media they consume but that same attitude isnt held for violent media. People are accountable for their own actions and no art form is to blame, you cant "turn" into a pedophile from art, you need to meet the diagnostic criteria to be one, people arent THAT easily influenced by media, we'd all be serial killers if that were the case since violent video games and horror movies are normalized. I wish pepple used the blocked button and critical thinking more often. Im so glad i mostly stick to tumblr and ao3, because tiktok has it so bad with the lack of media literacy skills
Saw this happen to an artist i really enjoy. They used to draw depictions of non consenting sexual images with characters they relato to as a way of coping with what they've gone through. I've seen people harrasing them and telling them to commit self delete because of the way they choose to cope and the way their THERAPIST told them to cope
I honestly feel so much pity for them and other artists alike, because this artist placed trigger warning in everything, and made sure that they were describing the contents of the image
Finally someone put my issues with online art/media consumers into words 👏 like long as its tagged and w/e, media should be posted. Artists/writers aren't responsible for your own trauma and shit. YOU ARE. So please curate your online experience accordingly