why should we care about THIS painting? |
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- Why are Singaporeans divided over a painting? Are we putting too much weight on public opinions??
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Cast:
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• Jonathan Paul / jonathanpaul.sxw
• Denise Oh / ohthedenise
• Alison Tan / alisonaliceally
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Edited by:
Shermane Wong 
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Art is art. It’s how Samsui women takes breaks. If this is a cause of concern, then posters or covers of advertisements with cigarettes or smoking be removed too? It’s not easy to paint such a huge art piece. The artist done a good work to paint this piece.
U didn't notice Singapore magazine or newspaper or any reading stuffs don't have cigarettes ads or photos?
But he did not get the necessary permission to do so. In fact, what the artist has done is technically vandalism.
I think the point isn't so much about the smoking.
What if it had been a coolie instead? I think noone would have bat an eyelid
When we were living at Stirling Rd, Queenstown, we saw these samsui women carrying the cement in buckets n bricks building blks of flats behind our block 164.
Wow, Jon made a great reminder of "majority is not always right" with examples of having professionals existence gave me a 🤯 moment. He has grown up hahahahah
If you listen to accounts of Samsui woman from the elder folks (when they were kids)
They would say they are:
- old, haggard looking
- fierce, always scolding children
- always on opium or tabacco
Understand that the concern of how the lady in make up , holding the cigg in that pose resembles that of a cabaret girl instead. It is in a way of wrong depiction as well on the artist part.
People need to learn to chill... It's just a mural whatever the outcome is .
Also why is the ang moh doing the mural????????
Rather than a wrong depiction on the artist's part, I encourage you to read the artist's intent behind the piece on his instagram.
The artwork is not completely historically accurate as he'd like it to be (he even admits it) but he asks the audience to think about why a Samsui woman can't look beautiful in a portrait.
Additionally, if you researched more on the artist's background, you would have realised that the artist was a migrant worker from the US who started out doing hard labour (construction, roofer, etc.) and the main reason why he decided to accept this commission was due to the kinship he had with the Samsui women who came to another country for a better life.
I'd understand the want from the public to have a 'historically accurate' representation of Samsui women squatting and looking grimy to educate and inform future generations about the kind of hardships these ladies faced. But I don't think we should also discount what this 'angmoh' tried to do for Samsui women - to empower and elevate these ladies beyond their role as blue-collar workers.
They were not all old and haggard lah. How to do the tough physical work if all of them were old?
love the selling art plug!!
The controversy should not actually be on the painting, but on the fact that both the landlord and the artist got away very lightly for not applying for the permit to do the job. I can hand on heart say that if it had been anyone else who had flagrantly broken rules, we would have been made to remove it. Why was he allowed to keep the mural up when he didn’t get the approval to do it in the first place? Whether it was of a woman with or without a cigarette, it’s deflecting on the main subject that needs to be highlighted.
i didnt know samsui woman smoked until this art was drawn
prob they oso ka kui kui?...
Keep the mural and add “Smoking causes cancer”
TYVM.
Good idea 😊
Arts only use expression. No word is needed otherwise it becomes an advertisement. Very simple, Just draw a small red circle around the hand holding the cigarette with a red line across the red circle. This is the hidden expression of no smoking sign in Singapore. No need any word to emphasise it otherwise it becomes redundant. 29:52
Cooking cause cancer
I just wanna say that Alison’s cup is so unique
Samsui women use to smoke opiums, the artist has already "water down" the art by using a cig
if people are offended by history isnt this just trying to change the history of Singapore and Samsui women?
A cigarette isn't a "watered-down" version of opium-they are two different things. Anyway, I don't think historicity is the point here. Firstly, smoking isn't central to the Samsui women's identity (what if you are a Samsui woman who doesn't smoke? Does that change your identity?). Secondly, no one uses public murals as a medium of proof or history; changing them changes nothing about the history of Singapore and Samsui women (if I draw a Samsui Woman holding an iPhone, would you ask me to take it down because it changes the history of Singapore and Samsui women?
The point should be whether public arts should be allowed a higher degree of freedom from censorship, and if so, where do we draw the line?
the cigarette is only a very small percentage of the overall painting. In my opinion, what is most strikingly out of context is the chair in this painting. Construction sites in the past were so spartan that Samsui women either sat on the ground or squat during their breaks or meals. Because of the comfortable chair depicted in the painting, it affects the overall gesture of the pose, and hence giving the sleazy vibe. Look through our national archive photos, and you will realise the gesture of Samsui women is very different from the gesture depicted in the mural.
@@YongShengOng Might as well don’t draw, keep Singapore safe and boring if you want to control whatever the artist feels like depicting
When someone is upset, angry, or offended by something or someone, it’s because that person see a mirror of themself
Invite URA to the show
LKY, Dr Goh and Raja all were smokers in their early years. So how did national archives go about this? 😅 digitally camouflage?
Those who made a hoohaa over the cigarettes are shallow minded. How laughable would that be when tourists found out the truth after visiting our history museum.
The only things that need to be amended would be eye contact.
Don't think that they would bother with the surroundings when taking a break from harsh weather. Probably, just within their own space and mind.
aiya really very free to go and start a saga about this leh, there are more things to worry about and people are worry about this -.- its just a mural. move on..
Ya lo. Really no Liao people must be Chao boomers or ugly aunties
“The problem is the majority isn’t always right”that’s a mic drop right there
I think there were only a few complaints about said complaints.
We should respect Samsui women, they hv contributed greatly to our society
Totally agree with JP's facial expression
It’s a conservation shophouse. Any changes to facade will require permits.
No really the meaning of conservation. You may Try painting your HDB or condo flat outside wall and see whether HDB or URA allow it?
Everything also need permit. No wonder Singaporeans are all so uptight
Exactly. I think the debate has shifted from the actual problem: he’s technically vandalised a conservation building. No matter what he painted, it was not with permission. When we worked in a shophouse, URA was so strict with us on what we could or could not do to the facade. Why is it different in this case?
Samsui women should always have a tired and weathered look
joking here: the painting has cloths hanging out and it is facing outside.....
In the old time, the faeces budget collector, we call that "36 doors" cos the vehicles have many doors to contain the budget of "faeces". They self collect the budget from the outdoor toilets and swap it an empty one, so no one will "miss" it. When the collector arrived, everyone hide far away from it cause it is very smelly!!!
To be fair, in the past, these hard working personnels smoke during their break as I can remember watching them from our kitchen window
1. I've seen a samsui woman in real life.
2. Whoever that member of public is who claimed that mural is sultry, stop being uncultured.
4. It is a beautiful piece of art, stop interfering as long as it is not political.
5:43 #give jp a lunch break!
was just wondering if this discourse would have shifted if there was more than one samsui women depicted in the mural instead of just one depiction that might steer people’s perspectives and impressions on them
The issue is sg government agencies always attend to these complaints and make changes, when majority of the people don't really care. This is why sg can never progress in the arts and sports. Smoking art. One sensitive person complain, ok take down. Forum on sexuality, some traditional minded parents don't like. Okay cancel event. Boys playing football at football court beside hdb block and one self centered resident complain because he/she don't like noise. OK repurpose the court. If govt can just stop kneeling to these minority complaints and ask them to suck it up then we will make much more progress than just economically. There will always be sensitive people in every corner of the world. Is how the relevant agencies react to that.
I mean its no secret this isn’t a case of a government agency reacting to complaints, more like a personal opinion of a certain official because since when did they listen to the people?
Can show the cigarette but tone down the smoke swirls. Keep it subtle.
What if the cig is used to shoo away the mosquito
Can we also consider that there are so many ways to depict the samsui woman that would still spark a conversation about samsui women, so why the need to use the cigarette?
Yes, when we lived in Prinsep st in the 60s, my grandparents will leave a basket with some money hanging down. Then the bread uncle will leave a loaf of bread in it after taking the $. Ppl were more honest then
I think it's the culture of Singapore and it's environment most countries in the world won't even bat an eyelid to these sort of art
The line is.. if it's not racially offensive, it doesn't insult anyone or hurt anyone. It is fine.
If one is insulted or hurt by a women smoking, person is too small..
If government feel so uneasy having samsui woman smoking. Then ban smoking? But the issue is, they cant earn tax :D
😰 Dealing with humans ~ it's impossible to please everyone .
Ridiculous complaints. From my view.
U guys went round the bush, put yourself in the authorities' shoes, URA,..... to do is damn, don't do also damn. Not asking to take down the whole mural, just change the cigarette to a tea cup. Samsui women drink tea correct?
Are we overthinking about this? It's just a mural, people complain (all the time).Complainers get the air time and their feedback across while those who has no comments on the mural stay silent or has no general opinions on it.
The 36 door poop collection truck
What are the rules for public advertisements or banners? If this doesn't fall within the exclusion list, then it shouldn't be asked to be taken down. For URA to say "take down" and then "wait ah" means they don't have a list and are acting on emotions. And for them to weaponise the renewal of lease is quite underhanded, if it is wrong and illegal then the tenants shouldn't be allowed to keep it up, if its not illegal then their renewal should not be affected. I don't understand what is this "you have until 3rd July or else".
Just like youtube has a list of exclusions for prohibited contents. Its not based on public voting or management beliefs, they will just point to a specific clause and say "you've violated this section". Safe to assume URA doesn't have such list and is acting without thinking through....
The OG Terminal 1 was built by Samsui women
several Qs that came to mind: 1. why would the artist paint a samsui women with a cig in place that there are other depiction that is more common. 2. will URA approved the mural in the first place? 3. when u link 1 & 2, u'll ask what is the artist attempting to do? he might aware that it will not approve, so there might be some hidden agenda? 4. we kept hearing "a member of the public" is it someone that is related to gov service/dept be one of it? 5. we can also linked with another similar news regarding the 2 colonial statues in ft canning. both involves sensitive people contradicting themselves.
I think the sensitivity here is due to the combination of a young woman + cigarettes thus why, but this is an artistic take a historical depiction and I strongly believe the response is from hypersensitive "Karens" or parents in Singapore who want to overprotect their kids who think this depiction at face value (reminds them of a prostitue) instead of looking at this as an artwork. I strongly agree that the URA should look at the number of "complains" requires a serious investigation / address instead of jumping in even if it's less than 4-5 complains on such issues. In that case does it mean these ppl will not complain if the one depicted to smoking in the image is a wrinkled old lady? so an old smoking samsui women would not look like or give an prostitue impression? so there is no old prostitues? At this day and age if we claim ourselves as a first world country, our people should be more openminded. I strongly believe that the artist should not modify their masterpieces if not this will turn a beautiful artpiece into a frankenstien monster as art cannot be controlled like what a client can do with an agency's work...It's not like renovating your own house as no one cares when your house end up turning into a "housewife's catalog". Unless it's nudity, I don't see his beautiful artwork is that much of an issue. Something to look at on the long-run~
They are the last mile of the construction site - like carrying bricks/cement etc up to other floors of the constructing building.
Samsui Women are vow to stay single.
It is what it is. That's what it is during those times, why do some want to change the history of samsui. Looks like the guy who gave his nonsense opinion had a very low opinion of samsui women
17:12 Only the weak minded that can be mind controlled by a Jedi 😛
My HOA restricts what you can display on your property as well as a general code of look and feel in terms of the windows, doors and colors that can be displayed. The guy is correct in that cities and towns can impose ordinances for a lot of things involving look and feel of buildings. It also tends to enhance property values.
Another platform, another opportunity for the anti govt elements to speak against the govt. Not so much about the cigarette thingy.
Art is art. Art gives people a space for imagination and creativity. If a person sees it and thinks it's encouraging smoking, gotta check the brains.
The mural isn’t nude what .. what is so offensive about it ?
wonder what kind of life are those complainers living in?
If you can censor one thing, you can censor everything.
Firstly, Singapore has never been a country that values INDIVIDUALITY or a single person’s view, so for URA to react in this manner simply because ONE SO CALLED “member of the public” complained, suggest to me that THE PERSON in question is someone with political or administrative powers WITHIN the hierarchy of the government.
Secondly, the strive for Historical Accuracies should ALWAYS BE THE BENCHMARK to prevent anyone holding political powers with monovalent intentions in future from creating propaganda against an IGNORANT population like what we see happening in North Korea!
Thirdly, Smoking Opium or smoking cigarettes are not simply an addiction for Samsui Women BUT it was also a COPING mechanism in the face of their HARSH daily realities of life…
6:25 and ll be
the sia lan who dam bo ma buay sai;
the sia lan ppl who JBBSB;
the sia lan doesn want to be part of the system just not to be part of the system;
the sia lan that ngeh ngeh lai,
the sia lan who dio si mai ngio...and more
Sure, SOME samsui women must have been smokers. To what extent does a cigarette depict that SMOKING is in their culture? How much samsui women were smokers enough that it NEEDED to be in a painting? LKY also smoked, does the artist want to try painting him in a mural? It is historically accurate.
The artist should hv painted a older sumsai woman, during that time we seldom see young sasumi women like the woman in mural. Must ask artist his intention . If the art is depicted an older samsui woman will be more acceptable.
Pick a side then argue for your points
Dun stand on the fence and argue for each side and throw so many bloody WHAT IFs
Algoooooooooooo
Actually, the mural was supposed to be part of a grand masterpiece spanning the entire vast empty space. But why paint it in one lonely corner? There's more to add, but when Singaporeans complained, the URA hit the brakes without even considering the full picture. Typical Singaporean mindset-complain first, appreciate art later! 29:52
next: INVITE MR LEE TO THE SHOWWWWWWWWWWWW. lets go
Some complaints are just not worth listening to. 🤷🏽♂️
The URA will “find fault” now that it’s being blown up. They cannot “lose face”. 😅
Parents who complain are just being lazy in parenting their children. 🤷🏽♂️
sorry i did not find people who smoked in school cool. in fact they were the nuisance. its only cool if they are nice and chill with you. other than that, smoking did not make them cool.
Haven't we evolved beyond this? Just seeing pix of samsui woman on smoke break wont encourage more smokers, isn't this just a depiction of how things have changed? heeeheee like having another building nearby to depict today's CBD woman on a S break . maybe should focus on reducing smokers current and past , maybe use more effective methods. And how to stop vaping, which is still more common than you think.
its not singaporeans being sensitive... its the young generation being obnoxiously strawberry about anything everything.... basically the since the birth of "keyboard-warrioring" ... e.g. China Super Sensitive Netizen... whom can bring anything down with just a keyboard... er.. maybe except the CCP...
Singaporeans didn’t make a fuss, its someone in the government, since when were government entities so keen on listening to petty complaints?
You censor a damn mural people still gonna smoke, if you don’t want people to smoke then ban cigarettes, too bad tax and saman money too delectable for the gahmen.
Singapore has lots of dollars and cents but very little artistic sense.
first!
My great-grandmother she was a sumsui women she smoke
In a langga face la...
Samsui Women: Why is there no one asking for my opinion?
Caused you are no longer around to speak for yourself.
It is illegal to be naked in public. That's the difference between having a naked woman painted and a smoking samsui woman. If your kids are so easily influenced then ban smoking altogether and make it illegal. Then it is on par with the naked woman and should not be depicted in any way or form in public. Your child will see the uncle smoking in the coffeeshop then how?
Look at the bigger picture...NB.
why is the samsui woman look like from petty face from tiktok doing some chessy dance... should at least be of older age lah.. about the smoke, pls lah.. we see ppl smoke on TV too and may be more(duration) than just seeing a painting on a wall which just afew second..
I think if it’s a granny holding a cig the comments will be different
Suzie Wong is a fictional character. It was a book turned into film in the 60s- look up The World of Suzie Wong
Suzie wong lah!!! Cleopatra wong cleopatra wong la!!! At least she admitted to her family past la!!! Some ppl wun admit it bro and pretend dunno Nancy Kwan or Kevin Kwan or what Anatasia Romanov and the bloody King bro!!!
It's damn messy if everyone can, they will migrate out of Singapore or Mardipoor bro.
Nakedness,or nudity in public is a BIG nO NO, illegal in sg....😮😮😮
Suggest the mural to be scaled down in size or be relocated....😂😂😊
Art is subjective and do not expect all ppl to accept them and understand them...., which is why we have laws and regulations...
If the mural is A4 size would people be offended ?