THE SECRET TO GET FASTER AT RUNNING
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- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2022
- This video is on the revolution training method Threshold training. Which is becoming a lot more common, as we see an improvement in times. It is prominent in Jakob Ingebrigtsen's training and the popular method devised by Marius Bakken can be credited to countless personal bests.
This method is extremely popular in:
Jakob Ingebrigtsens training,
kristian blummenfelts training,
and Sandre Moen's training
Lactate measure kit - www.amazon.co.uk/EDGE-Lactate...
Previous lactate testing video - • THRESHOLD & VO2 MAX TE...
Ever wondered?
how to become a faster runner
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How to get better at running
How to get faster at running
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This was brilliant, why was I wasting my time watching The Runner.
I mean I still watch him just so I can comment on his videos calling him out 😂
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA truth lmao
Converted
This is a really good summary of that paper! We just started implementing this into our winter work this year and have seen huge improvements in 1500m-10k strength. Great video!
Thank you and yep it really is magical on how good it actually works
This is the new barefoot running/forefoot striking trend. Doing threshold training requires an accumulation of mileage at threshold pace for years and years, you can't just pick it up and expect to improve in the short term. There is no secret, just go out and run --- run faster --- and run twice a day. You get out what you put in. This kid was raised by a father who had him running twice a day, consistently running high mileage, for 5 to 7 years before he even stepped foot in high school. That's why he's so good. In fact, I would wager that most of the top runners began running long before high school, that's just how it works. He's effectively living his father's dream, and that's how his life was planned out from birth, just as his brothers' lives were as well. When you have a 10-12 year old kid running 50-60-70-80 miles per week until they're 16, they're going to be a star as long as they have a decent base level of talent. Not to mention, he was born into a track team and competitively training with his championship-winning siblings.
Great stuff as always. Thanks for the Amazon links.
Thank you and no problem at all
Really awesome to learn this info. Thanks!
Thanks a lot!
One of the track channels who does good quality research, great work!
thank you!
very well explained ☺️
Thank you ☺️
Great video and information. I would add building a solid base is important before beginning threshold training. For newer runners.
I would also agree. Something like longer reps at tempo effort as well as good mobility and easy running
thanks for the vid, ill add this to my training
No problem at all. Best of luck !
Love the video!
Thanks !
Very nice video, thanks.
Regarding the lactat vs. Heart rate you mentioned in the end, i did a little research by myself.
I did three diagnostics in 2015, 2017 and 2021. And indeed my HR at around 3mmol was 164, 164, 162. (while my performance increased other that years)
Thanks for that hint 🙂
That’s good to know. No problem at all!
Great video!
Thank you!
Good explanation for newbies
Thanks ☺️
Wow jakobs training is killer no wonder why he's the best I don't have enough endurance yet do do 6x2k at threshold
Got to start small and adapt to your current training. But yeah Jakob kills it
Nice video💪
Thanks a lot ☺️
This is great 👌 thoroughly interested in this…. I’ve watched Ben is running on RUclips start with this at the beginning of his marathon and he’s taken his threshold pace down dramatically to the point where he’s just run a 1:08 half, when his last PR was 1:14 👀
Thanks! Yep although he runs his threshold a little too fast hahaha
One thing to mention is that talent and solid genetics goes a long way for the few, who are willing to spend the time, and have the resources to play this game. Jakob trains (ed) with his world class brothers, and was traveling abroad to train in warm climates while quite young.
Yes that certainly helps
It's all about having a father who created a track team out of his family and had 10-12 year old Jacob running 50-60-70-80 MPW for years before he even stepped foot in high school. He had years of training competitively with his European championship-winning/Olympian brothers before the age that most people ever lace up a pair of running shoes. Everything else is overblown, the genetics thing gets thrown around too often, and it detracts from the real cause for the athlete's success, which is hard work and getting into the sport from a young age.
The bit about the tinman calculator is very cool
Yeah it’s a great tool
Hi, nice video. I was just wondering if you have an idea at what point in the training cycle Jakob does these high volumes of threshold training, is it year round or just in his base period of training? I'd be surprised if he does it in the lead up to races since I'd imagine there is more of a high speed focus at that point. Thanks.
Hi so it’s all year round with the x element being changed to race specific. And then very close to races some more may be added. But threshold remains very prominent all year
Great video! You should link Bakkes website where he logged all his data and experiences with lactate training
Thank you and will do that when I’m back in the office!
Great video, I was just wondering when in the training cycle it would be appreprinted to get a lactate lab test done? Is it when you are at your fittest or just after the Base period and more race specific training is added in?
I was get it done at the start. Then you have starting point. And you also have hr rate data to follow for the required effort as you get fitter
as a chinese 16years old student,I learn a lot.
I'm glad!
Also if you use A stryd pod to measure power you could do a LT test and know what wattage to run your LT sessions at. I did this last year and did Ingebrigtsen training, just double sessions once a week because I am 44, but I got in great shape.
Wow I actually didn't of that. That works in all conditions and terrain too!
@@Trackstaa_ Indeed. I did 5x6:00 in morning just under LT watts and then 25x400 or 8x1k in PM just above LT watts. Once a week I did either their hill session or 10x300 at mile pace. I slipped on some steps last year so I'm just coming back from knee surgery, but soon I'll be back at it.
@@cakej1 nice that’s some solid work!
@@cakej1 did you do as high mileage?
@@thomasekudahl8820 I ran years of 100 to 150 miles a week. But at my age now I was doing about 60 miles per week when I was doing Ingebrigtsen training.
This is so good. Very cool detail and helpful nuance too. Thanks broo!! Other than strides, do Ingebrigsten do any reps higher faster than threshold?
Yes they’re x element. Which is obvious if you watch the video 😉
@@Trackstaa_ sorry yeah other than hills
@@joshgorst8562 i think they do some faster intervals like 4*300 meter slightly faster than race pace before a competition
Their hardest session per week is 20x200 hillsprint, in which they basically do all out. I think its about 25 min light jog, then 20x200 meter hillsprint with jog down 200 meter pause, and then 25 min light jog cooldown. I think they also do a little longer pause after 10 sprints , then do next 10. Marius Bakken also mention similar one weekly hillsprint session. They mention they do not measure lactate in this session but probably go into anarobic. I think they basically do 2 double treshold days per week and 1 longrun, (20km) and 1 hillsprint session and 2x10 km easyrun on days in between. Jakob mentions 182,5 km per week. What they do before races I dont know.
@@Trailrunner1978 yep the hills are 2x10x200m with jog down. But not flat out. More like 800-1500 effort
Favorite session is 5-8km tempo followed by 4-6 reps of 200-400m at 800 or 1500 pace
Yeah I love those type of sessions where you mix aerobic with speed
mmol/L is the concentration of lactic acid, mmol being a counting unit (1/1000 of a mol).
Yes
Very good I didn't know about this lactic acid d tracking technology or that jakob had days where he did 2 threshold sessions in a day any advice on how a high school student can get 2 thresholds in a day going to school at 8
I mean one option is before school but that’ll be very early and sleep is too important. So try do your double threshold on a Saturday.
Ok thanks
Where is that track you were running on looks amazing
Sierra Nevada
For the Tinman Calculator are you supposed to use the threshold intensity row for training sessions, because this seems quite slow compared to the pace I usually train at? Or should you use a different intensity row?
Threshold intensity row. Threshold is slightly slow. Try using jack Daniel’s VDOT calculator to figure it out too
Hi, nice video as always, just a few things that maybe I didn't hear or you didn't mention. From 2020 Jakob slightly changed his training, so I guess the structure looks a bit different now. This is only for base training, in the transition period before competitions I bet he includes some vo2 and anaerobic reps around 1500m pace. There's a pdf with all the sessions Henrik did some years ago leading into important races, there aren't many double threshold days but still more than I would've expected, maybe that has changed slightly because I remember him complaining in the tv series about not tapering enough before competitions. I've read that different lactate measuring devices give slightly different values so there could be a 0.3/0.5 different between let's say a lactate pro 2 used by the Ingebrigtsen and the lactate plus used by Norvegian triathletes. From what I know the lactate plus values are more simililar to the one that you can measure in the lab with more expensive devices, that's why for example Kristian blummenfelt uses it
Hey can you link me the article to Jakobs change in training in 2020 because I haven’t seen anything suggesting otherwise. I know some of his pre race sessions like 400s and 300s at race pace. But not much else
@@Trackstaa_ about workouts leading into races innovasjonskonferansenirogaland.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/gjert-ingebrigtsen.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0Vspo_5vp0qBbd7Ci1jvB4QW6pF92gR38q6tZ1bg1ZAkJcTcO3xZOmd1M
@@Trackstaa_ in the interview they also mention about this workout of 15-20 400s in sets of 5, with 3' recovery between sets that jakob ran between 56" and 52" thats some pretty serious stuff...
Can you send the PDF?
Marius bakken is a boss
He is good
@Trackstaa I want to ask for the first timer like me to try this approach. For the threshold workout can I start small like 3K x 2 so the total would be only 6km overall same as the shorter workout like 15 x 400 and the total would be 6km. One more for the rest may I know for the 6K x 2 or 3K x 2 the resting time would be how long same for the shorter workout 30 x 400 or 15 x 400? hope can know more about this approach.
Hi so yeah I’d suggest maybe starting with 6x1k off 90 seconds rest. Or 3 x 2k.
Rule of thumb for rest. I usually do.
30 seconds for 400s
60 seconds for 1ks
90 seconds for anything longer
12k reps are for the basic treshold/lactate treshold. They do 10k of anaerobic treshold/ hight treshold (10x1k or 25x400m). The lactate is like 2.4mmol/L during lactate treshold and around 2.8mmol/L. It’s the same lactate of your test during training. Ingebrigsten also do some lactate treshold easy berore the afternoom anaerobic thresold 5x2k for example. Your lactate level depends of your level because if you have a good treshold you recycle well you’re lactate and mmol/L will be lower. I have buy the edge analysor of lactate 4 days ago 😅
in theory scientists that the anaerobic threshold is at 4mmol/L and the lactic threshold at 3mmol/L. But these are averages. Thanks for the vid !
Hey, as far as I’m aware all of their sessions when working between 2mmol to 3 mmol are 12k in volume. Could you send me any info you have about it?
No problem at all. I’m thinking about getting the edge or pro
Hi, appreciate the video. I'd done a fair bit of research before on threshold training with lactate testing and also come across Marius bakken. What were your main sources that you used to find the info in this video? Just so I can also read over them and add them to my bank of knowledge :) thanks
Hey my main source was www.mariusbakken.com/the-norwegian-model.html
@@Trackstaa_ thanks so much. Appreciate a lot that you replied to this. I've contacted multiple other creators asking for their sources and none have ever replied. Guess you're just standout
@@Trackstaa_ was this posted recently? I'm shocked I never found this before
@@yesno9374 we try
@@yesno9374 quite recently yep
I wonder what their base phase as well as periodization looks like. I.E. do the additional threshold sessions affect how long their cycles are.
As far as I’m aware the threshold sessions remain a big constant throughout the year. I believe when they aren’t as fit. They lower the pace and increase the distance of reps
@@Trackstaa_ thanks. That makes sense. Basically it’s periodization by pace.
@@jkhoudini yep pretty much
One thing I wonder is since threshold pace is much slower than mile pace how does Jacob get in his speed work?
Hills and strides. And then closer to races his x element session is race specific
So Bakken found that training threshold is actually better at 3mmol than 4mmol? Does that mean that the true lactate threshold is at 3mmol or that it’s better to train slightly below your threshold of 4mmol by training at 3mmol? And is there a conversion from 4mmol to 3mmol when it comes to your paces?
I’m not certain on the conversion but it’s probably around 0.5-0.3 KMPH. Lactate threshold is usually where the jump is. Well that’s the turning point. And 4 is normally the generic assumption. But it’s not the case. I believe it’s usually the rule of thumb. But yes Bakken found more benefit in terms of return of training and how it left you afterwards
It depends on your level of experience. Magnus bakken found that he got better results by training at 3 mmol instead of 4, but the studies that were done at the subject was on lower level athletes.
About the tinman calculator: let's say that gives a pace between 3:32 and 3:27/km. Does slightly reducing that pace mean about 5 seconds slower, so roughly 3:37-3:35/km? Or closer to 3:40/km?
3:35 - 3:32 I’d day
@@Trackstaa_ Great, thanks! Will try this for sure, great video!
@@ninodendekker8486 that’s let me know how it goes. And thank you!
What about the breaks between reps? With calculator i can get pace, but IDK what breaks should i take between sets
30 seconds between 400s, 1 minute between 1ks and 90-120 seconds for longer
Do you absolutely need to do 2 double day or 2 day of one threshold training or 1 day of 1 and 1 day of 2 could also work well for a lower mileage guy?
As far as I’m aware it’s about optimising you amount you can do, whilst avoiding an increase in fatigue. So rather than doing a single day. You would just drop the mileage of the double down.
So let’s say you’d do 1 two day and 1 one day. Of 6k and 6k and then 10k in one session.
You’d be better doing 2 days of 6k 6k as the total volume is higher
@@Trackstaa_ thanks bro! Good video btw
Is it possible to do this type of plan without doubling? Like for me, I only run ~40-50 miles a week. Would it be like long threshold day once a week and then short threshold day once a week?
Yeah juts once a day rather than twice. Just do medium threshold days of around 10-12k
about how many seconds shaved off the tinman calculator for 2-3mol paces?
I’d say around 1.6%
Sir my personal best 10k
30:30sec
My threshold 400*25
And 1000*10
What should be my threshold pase For 400m rep and 1000m rep
Please reply sir🙏🙏🙏
My event 1500m and 3000m
Use the Tinman training calculator ☺️
❣️❣️❣️❣️
Fave session at moment
4 x 400 with 60 sec rest
Pace @72, 70, 68, 66
2 sets of this, second set pace @ 68, 66, 64, 62
Then finish with 2 x 200 max effort
I like that progression, kind of a 1500m/3000m session?
is it true that Jake Smith came from a fell running background? Thats what the runner said on his channel
I’ll double check with Jake.
it is true
@@rorybarclay-watt5586 yep
Does he have rest day in week?
Nope
why do coaches advise the younger runners to run every other day and to not run like Jakob did when he was younger when there is evidence what Jakob does is the secret and you gain success?
Because it’s safer and avoids burn out. and most coaches don’t know what they’re doing.
@@Trackstaa_ ok thanks
is there a high chance of burnout
LeTtTtTtTsSsSs GoOoOoOooOo
NAtHaNNNNNnnn
How the hell did u get Ingebrigtsens Training scheduele?? Thought that was like a national norwegian secret, kept in the national bank. I am guessing Gjert is pissed off right now 😂😂😂💕
It’s actually quite commonly known. The more secret stuff is their pre race stuff
@@Trackstaa_ You are great!
did you run much when you were younger
I did, the wrong training though
@@Trackstaa_ what did you do wrong
The secret to get faster in running is to run faster in tranning intervals
No that’s the secret to getting injured
@@Trackstaa_ you can run in soft surfaces that the secret of not getting injured
@@RajuShaikh-pl9xc not everything is about running faster in training though. Most should be controlled and precise
@@Trackstaa_ 👍👍👍
Good but we are not jacob
If you want to be Olympic Champion----1 sure fire way to get there:
Chose yr parents very carefully!
It’s weird because genetically the Ingebrigtsen’s are gifted. Which makes it even more crazy
Got money problems? Do some threshold
Girlfriend cheated on you? Do some threshold
Wanna get better at running? Do some threshold
ill 2 days after Christmas a week and a half before your first race of the season, when you also missed autumn season because you were ill then. Do some threshold 😢
@@Trackstaa_ cry
@@keepingupwithkempson while doing some threshold ? It’s my only coping mechanism. Incline threshold repairs the sole
And he complained about clickbait titles of other youtubers and non-scientific content hahaha
This is neither of those.
I don't support Ukraine
Entitled to your own opinion
@@Trackstaa_ I also don’t support Israel or Islam :)
30×400 m 🫠