This makes much more sense than MHR. I am a new runner (6 mos), coming into it from spending 6-8 hour days hiking technical trail at 4-5 km/hr. On an elliptical for 30 min at perceived exhertion similar to HIIT on 'hard trail' my HR is 164-172. I recover to under 100 in 2 minutes. My RHR is 56-60. At 63 years of age my ARHR would be 220-63=157 and Target heart rate at 70% of that is 110 ... couldn't stay there for even a slow run at my comfortable cadence. Thanks for explaining the THR rationale.
I’m with you! I’m 61 and my heart rate goes way too high according to my Fitbit. I need to get a better measurement, but this zone stuff is very limiting if you’re older.
I really like this video regarding using the Average Heart Rate (LTHR) instead of using the MHR to find the heart rate training zones. In your video you didn't explain the formula to calculate for each heart rate training zones. Can you explain the formula so I can calculate each of my training zones when using the average heart rate (LTHR) Thanks
That's due to cardiac drift (increase in HR to keep up with cardiac output due to decrease in blood volume). They do some great videos on that topic. You do not need to reduce your intensity/pace in order to keep your HR in a certain zone during those long runs. The key is to keep the intensity the same.
Very informative. I like the idea of working off the threshold HR rather than peak. I did a hard run and apparently my peak was 191, I am 55 years old so had serious doubts. However the average for a 2mile (15min) run (which is race pace for me) was 170. So will be using this as my threshold for now. Got a 5 mile race soon, will use my HR monitor during this and press lap after ten mins so should get an average for the next 25 mins or so. Great videos, loving your work.
Well, I guess you used wrist HRM. I am 65, and regularly observe HR up to 180+, up to 190! using wrist HRM. Changed to arm HRM and it fixed that: never managed to exceed 160, which seems about right. Invested into chest HRM and it gives the same readings as arm HRM.
There's a number of comments below that ask about each boundary as a percentage of threshold hr. Would be nice to know each boundary ( for me personally, lower bound for Z2 is what I need ).
I am older so have some knowledge of the way things were done in the past. I have been training to heart rate for a very long time. Probably more than 30 years. I guess I lived by a book on heart rate training and in that book they did the simple test of slowly increasing speed until the hear rate would start to increase quickly So sort of linearly for a while and then the slop would take off upwards. Also this is the point where your breathing would increase from maybe faster in the beginning but then again increase sharply. I think this was called your Anerobic threshold. Over the years this has been easy to check on every ride or run I did. You could run comfortably and then as you hit that threshold it was not so easy. I have seen that this number only varies slightly over the year and over years as well. It does not depend on your ability to push to some limit which is easy for elite athletes but for us common ones who have the reality of life and sometimes not enough training being able to push hard for 30 minutes is a big variable as sometimes you can really go fast for you for a long time and other times your body wins the discussion and you cannot go fast. I see the point where max is even harder to achieve because maximum effort is variable based on fitness and fatigue and stress. I had good success and fewer injuries when I learned to keep my pace below my AT. The old adage was was feel the burn where you trained as hard as you could most of the time. Thankfully that has gone to the wayside. But I guess my question is could a person base a training schedule and zones using AT and not your Threshold method that I guess takes the average of a hard workout which I have to imagine for weekend warriors would show spikes of increased heart rates with dips as they recover from going to hard and then repeat that. I know elite athletes have a remarkable ability to set a pace and maintain that almost exactly for long periods of time.
Great video, but I'm new to heart rate training and to stay in zone 2 , I'm only walking. How will I ever get faster at running if I'm only walking most of the time?
The point of working at the threshold is that you will become more efficient and soon you will be faster and faster at the same heartrate, and your threshold heartrate (what you can maintain) will gradually increase as well. It's tempting to go too hard but once I allowed myself to slow down, I found myself less burnt out and able to do more consistent volume. Give it time.
Dear Magda I suggest you look for fartlek training, once a week, there are multiple combinations you can find in youtube, but you can for example do a 60 min session divided like this: 15 min warm-up at comfy pace + 7 x (2 min fast/ tempo speed + 3 min easy jog) + 10 min cool-down at comfy pace again. Don't do the fast peaks at your maximum speed, maybe use 85% to prevent injury. This should help together with increasing your volumes at easy paces on your other days of the week (make sure you do at least 4 workouts per week to grow a good aerobic base that will allow you to sustain speed for longer periods). Furthermore do core and leg strength conditioning workout as well, this will help you too. Good luck and good runs :-)
This is very common for new runners or those who just aren't used to run slowly. You are absolutely right that walking alone won't make you a good runner because it's such a different movement. Here's a couple of points on this: - If you can breath through your nose or talk while running, you're most probably in the right zone even if your watch shows something different. Especially if you don't wear a chest belt the measured heart rate might be 10bpm (approx. 5%) off or even more. Also your max heart rate could be different from what your watch assumes. - If it turns out that slow running really does get you out of zone 2, you can do the run-walk-run method. Run until your hr gets too high and walk until it sinks well into Zone 2 or 1 - Don't be overly religious with this stuff, especially if you'd rather run the whole time than do the run - walk - run thing
Excellent point that upper and lower Z2 have the same* physiological-energy-expenditure benefit! I believe that far too many runners are trying to be overly precise when they attempt to carve this zone up into multiple zones. All we really need to know, and relative-subjective perceived effort is just fine for this (no need for HR monitors), are two zones: our low intensity zone and our high intensity zone...KIS. *same mitochondrial metabolic regimes activated, the fat and glycogen ones, not the lactate one
What about for people just starting out to run 5k ? Im 56 and relatively fit , Maffetone for the first few weeks? 180 -56 = 124, Then possibly adopt this videos principle? Much appreciated ✌️
I'm 32, untrained and trying to find the best time-to-value ratio training to objectively improve my cardio health (not competing). Looking at studies and lived experiences by professionals has been super helpful - so I have some questions; I'm using an indoor bicycle trainer with a watt meter and HR chest strap. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that sitting as close to max heart rate as you can sustain will yield results the fastest and require the shortest training sessions - but you want to be careful not to go too high or you won't be able to complete your sessions. So I have prescribed myself a boring interval training routine that I am doing 3 times a week. 30s up at 130% of my FTP, 30s down at 30% and the session lasts 30 minutes. After the first few intervals my heart-rate plateaus at Z5 for the rest of the session (and yes I feel like I am dying the whole time, ironic that it's dying that I'm trying to avoid with this). My plan is to increase the interval difficulty over time (by raising my FTP and maintaining the intervals at 130% of that). In your experience, is this an effective form of training if your goal is improving cardiac health?
Training at Threshold is how you increase your Aerobic capacity. Train at or just above 100% of aerobic capacity, rest to recover, and the next time you train, your threshold will be higher... (lots of other variables to consider, but the concept is relatively simple and complex all at the same time) Just hard enough to start producing a little bit of lactate, but not enough that you can't sustain it.
This is good advice. This cycle I’ve been doing “1000m” repeats. ( guestimation) Started hard effort around 3:40 10x1000m One month later did 20x1000m at 3:30-45 Two weeks later. Did 2x 5k @ that pace. After 15 miles AM
Arent there two thresholds? When I am doing a 400m interval at "threshold" or a 1000m interval at "threshold", do I need to reach my threshold heart rate at the end of the interval?
Very interesting - many thanks! If one knows the lactate threshold heart rate and trains according to the respective LTHR zones (1-5), how about racing? Is there any guidance in which LTHR zone your marathon (Z3?), half marathon (Z4?) and 10K (LTHR?) should be? Alternatively, is there a simple calculator, where one can 'translate' a LTHR or a race result into LTHR zones for other distances?
From my experience(just based on my running watch), my racing HR is a few beats below the LTHR if not bang on it. The average heart rate in my previous marathon ended up being 173bpm, and my LTHR just before the marathon was about 175bpm.
So let's say my avg. HR on a 35min run (5:30/km) is 175bpm (185bpm at the end). That would suggest a upper limit of zone 2 of around 145bpm. When I do my Easy Runs (6:45/km - 7:15/km) I end up running at a avg. HR of 154bpm (it's like the magic number for me), wich puts me in zone 3 (I can run 90min like that and still feel like I could continue). It is impossible to get below 145bmp even I go extremly slow (~8:00/km). The running gets too unefficient. Does anybody have suggestions for changes or will a drop in HR come over the years. Background: At the moment I do around 2-3x Easy/Recovery, 1x Tempo and 1x Intervals per week. 2-3x Gym, 1-2x Cycling or Swimming and 1-2x Bouldering per week. I've been doing gym work for a couple of years now, but started reducing it for more cardio workouts since 3 months ago.
Should the zones get adjusted for hot vs cold weather running? Do the zones you get if you do your threshold test on a hot and humid day apply for cold weather running?
It'll vary, also by level of fatigue and even what surface you're running on. Also different between sports. But any one is a starting place to work out the others. You'll learn to feel it.
Heat will affect your hr. However remember Hr is an input. On a cooler day you would be able to put out the same Hr, but your output (power/pace) will be higher.
im curious about how my threshold changes with training.. when I get notified "you set a new HR threshold" what does that really mean? Also, I'd love to hear this whole video again framed around cycling!!
I believe LTHR is simply the HR you have on record, or are projected to hold for 60 minutes straight. Since LTHR is time based, it should factor in cardiac drift. I think...😃
So Zone 2 is 80 to 85% of threshold heart rate - but you don't tell us what Zone 4 is (and what happened to Zone 3, by the way?). I appreciate the information about heart rate lagging behind exercise by up to a minute, but I would be interested to know how quickly heart rate drops off with rest. Lacking a chest strap I will often check my heart rate simply by palpating the pulse at my wrist the moment I finish a run (for 15 seconds, usually) and I think that should be reasonably accurate, no?
My understanding is that you try to avoid training in Z3 also called the 'grey' area as it offers little for performance improvement and is higher cost on the body.
I have a garmin fenix. I decided to take advice and run at zone 2 easy run. I realised I'm just cruising at 130-5 bpm sustainable for 9km. After this for the same perceived exertion I need to slow right down to sustain zone two as it bumps up to zone 3. 13-14km my garmin is in zone 4-5!!! I am going slower and my perceived exertion is still chill.... But garmin is off the charts. I think it must be garmin error. I take my pulse and it is 120... Must be garmin error
@@chrism589 much appreciated. Just that manual HR check doesnt match. I then used chest strap and whne Garmin is 180 chest strap is 160 which matches my manual count.
Doctors are so scared of lawsuits that my doctor uses a machine that controls the way that a stress test gets administrated. It automatically turns off the treadmill at certain point. At that very point, I was definitely far away from my maximum heart rate.
Same for me. I had a stress test and they stopped it when my heart rate reached a certain level, the official reason on the report being “exhaustion”. I was sweaty, but I could’ve run for another 10 minutes.
Perfect timing!! I'm getting back to running after going on meds for high BP. It's like having a whole new body! (Well, with the same old niggles. ) I'm now seeing the massive pace slow down i experienced 3 years ago was due to BP. Training with HR became a shuffling slog. Now, I'm doing run/ walk to ease back in, but I'm running faster with a WAY lower heartrate. So my question is, for those of us on BP meds, do all the same HR rules still apply?
I believe it will depend on what blood pressure meds you are on. Some of them (not usually first-line drugs these days) will slow your heart rate down (eg. metoprolol, atenolol, any of the other -lols, and diltiazem, verapamil) but the others will not affect it
@@anthonyglaser8972 I'm on metoprolol, which does slow the heartrate. My resting heartrate is only about 5 beats lower, but when running it's looking like 15-20 lower, which puts me in a more"normal" range. (As a pretty fit and otherwise healthy runner, I had to run at about 4-4.3 mph on the treadmill to stay in the 140-143 range before!) When going by perceived exertion during races, my conversational pace was much faster, but my steady hr was 160-164... not great during marathons and 50ks, I guess?
@@Kelly_Ben I suspect that might affect your endurance challenges. I would ask your doctor if there is a particular reason you are on metoprolol - as I mentioned, it is not normally a first-line blood pressure drug, unless you have other issues or have had problems tolerating other classes of blood pressure meds. If there is no particular reason you are on it, you might ask to change to something else that will not affect heart rate or HR response to exercise
@@anthonyglaser8972 I did a little googling earlier and saw that my asthma might be a factor in med choices, but I just assumed the metoprolol WAS a first line med! I'm only 43, but had what at the time appeared to be a minor heart attack. I'll definitely ask for a review of everything. Thanks! (I'm NOT ready to give up my 50ks! 😆)
@@Kelly_Ben Having had a heart attack would certainly be a reason to be on metoprolol, although it may not clinch it, and there is some debate about its benefit. There are also theoretical reasons why drugs of the metoprolol class are inappropriate for people with asthma, although the evidence is a bit mixed (and is may depend on the dose). A bigger question is of course why you had the heart attack in the first place, of course! (I am not asking you to disclose anything, just saying). Good luck. PS - I am a newly-retired family doctor, but please don''t construe this as medical advice as such!
I am still confused for the speed/intensity while you are doing all one-hour workout to find the Treshold. Is it just by feeling? nice talk! thanks Shona I like your glasses!
A standard and simple test is a 30 minute time trail and take your average Hr for the last 20 minutes as the first ten minutes is affected by lag. As a coach I think this video is quite poor and confusing.
@geoffnash2609 I'm just starting out on a running for fitness (not necessarily speed) in my mid fifties. I know it's late but hey.... Anyway, are you more or less agreeing with what they said in the video about measuring THR? Once I have measured this I can then think about the next stage - how to calculate and use zones. Unfortunately most of the video is confusing and unhelpful talk about zones without clearly providing important info. The fact that there are so many (unanswered as far as I can tell) questions in the comments about how to calculate any of the different zones based on THR confirms this.
I really need a video on how to calculate my own Zone 2 because I’m so confused! My Polar sets my zone 2 at between 118-137 However, the highest my heart rate has ever reached at peak during a race is 197 and my resting heart rate is usually between 54-60 depending upon how stressed or overtrained I am. Should I be using my Polar standard or the Karvonen method and if so how do I calculate it because some calculators are saying that my Zone 2 should be 150-160 🤷🏻♂️ HELP! 😩
okay. you can do this by tuning into your breathing. At the top of Zone 2 there is a noticeable change in ventilation. This is why zone 2 is sometimes referred to as "ventilatory threshold". Do a warm up and build up your pace etc and get up a good puff, then do an easy walk/jog for 5 minutes to bring your hr down. Now start slowly and gradually pick up your pace, the key here is gradually, all the time taking note of your breathing. remember your heart rate lags behind your effort so you want to build up slowly. At a certain point you will go from breathing easily and being able to chat or whistle to needing to breathe far more deeply and often. When you hit this point, take note of your Hr. ease up and do this 2 or 3 more times and note your Hr each time to confirm your result. The point at which your breathing changes is the upper end of Zone 2. It is quite a broad range so typically it spans 10 - 15 beats, so working in a 10 beat range from the upper end is pretty spot on.
That´s is low upper limit for zone 2 to me. My VT1 is 154 messured by spirogometry (by the way Garmin has exactly the same estimate) so 80% of this is 123bpm, 85% would be 130. I think I can´t run at all with 123 and very, very slow with 130. Do I missunderstand you?
I am on the same page with this training, I’ve tried to stay in zone 2 I can’t stay in zone 2 even at the upper end while running. I’m walking 80% of any given run….I’m not sure how one gets that improved???
And I’m also running REALLY slowly for me, the most frustrating thing watching those HR zones… I honestly don’t mind the speed it’s that I can stay in zone 2 lol
Iv been doing the maffetone method for the last 1 month. I'm 50 so using a HR of 130 but my garmin 6x puts that in the middle of zone 1 based on data it has gathered from me. I'm really curious what a difference running in zone 2 would mean for me.
Garmin calculates your max HR with the formula of 220 minus your age. For me, that's 160bpm since I'm 60 years old. This is a generic and broad formula and isn't accurate for older runners. Actually, it's even debated who came up with it or even if its valid. I suspected this was inaccurate when my wrist watch was sometimes giving me readings of up to 170bpm while still not flat out. At first I thought it was my watch being inaccurate even though it was a high end Garmin watch. Then I bought an accurate chest monitor strap and that was the same...actually my watch and chest strap have similar accuracy which is good to know from my watches perspective. So then I started to question the accuracy of the HR zones in the Garmin Connect app and sure enough, after doing a bit of research, I stumbled on an old runner by the name of Ralph who has a utube channel called "Ageless Runner" who highlighted this. He said there is another formula out there called the HUNT fitness formula which is more accurate especially for older people. So when I keyed in my data into the HUNT formula, my max HR was 174bpm. While this was a way better ballpark than Garmins 160bpm and more accurate, I still felt it was a few beats too slow to reflect when I did those few runs where I hit 170bpm while not flat out. Ralph did a video and one of these tests for your max HR where you do a series of flat out intervals to get your max HR and he even found that the HUNT formula was out by about 8bpm. I agreed with this because the times I did those 170bpm runs, I felt I wasn't maxed out and still had another 10-15bpm left in the tank. But even if you use the standard HUNT formula, it's certainly a lot more accurate and closer to that of the 160bpm that Garmin uses. But I do believe that my max HR is 182bpm instead of even the HUNTS 174bpm. This is 22bpm over Garmins formula and a real game changer if your doing heart rate training, maffatone, or if your a recovering triple heart bypass patient like me whose heart rate monitoring is critical. So thankfully Garmin Connect allows me to adjust my max HR and my zones to this new formula and now my zones reflects my efforts a lot better. Before on the old formula, I would do runs which would feel like only about 75-80% effort and I'd be in the red maximum zone for most of the run. This was highly alarming for my medical condition. Now my zones for the same type runs would be near 50-50 between the green and the lower end of the orange zone scale which would be more reflective of my efforts. I can't stress how critical this difference is to me when you are using heart rate zones for your training. Chances are they you are probably under training on your maffatone and probably struggled to contain a slow HR in your training. Hope this might help.
@@patrickokeeffe4787 thanks for your in depth reply. I didn't realize that garmin used the 220 formula, I know you can manually adjust it as well but I thought it would be based on the data it had gathered from my chest strap as it must know my max HR is higher than the 220 formula from previous hard runs plus the lactate threshold being recorded so I assumed my zones would have been automatically adjusted according to the data rather than the 220 formula.
How? Cardiac drift refers to an increase in hr given a steady output. If you do a standard test (30 minute TT and taking the last 20 minutes avg), yes your Hr is going to increase, but hat is why you use the last 20 minutes, the initial increase in Hr which is the most dramatic is taken out of the estimate. If, toward the end of a test you are able to push your hr higher, then that's is what you are able to do and that is reflected in the result. There is nothing wrong with that. If you set a target output (power/pace) and hold that steady to measure cardiac drift then you are more than likely artificially limiting the effort and will end up with an unreliable result. Also cardiac drift as a measure of running economy is much more reliable for lower intensity efforts (such as zone 2) and not really a useful tool for measuring anaerobic threshold (zone 4) improvement or economy.
I hear what they are saying, but what's the intent? The group here does not appear to be athletically built which makes it hard for me to align with them. Doesn't mean you have to practice what you preach, but I'd have more confidence in your points for sure.
I don't believe that a max HR or a threshold HR is an either/or choice. If you want a full picture, you need an accurate measure of both. This is because the best measure of your fitness is in how close to your maximum HR your threshold HR is. Your max is fixed. It is painful to find out what it is, but it must be found with the highest effort you have ever exerted. Then, with whatever method you can find your threshold, whether you believe your watch, or do a step test to find the break point in HR vs effort, how close threshold approaches max says what potential you have to improve. 20% below max? You can do way better. Work harder. 5% below max? Be happy. You ain't gonna get much better!
My 5k time is under 20 mins, while my zone 2/ easy run pace is around 10mins per mile, my HR when running easy is definitely lower than 80% of THR. 80% as lower boundary of zone 2 is way too high.
For some yes. It depend on your physiology. There is a great range of variance between individuals. Nothing good or bad about it, it's just the way you are wired.
There are several thresholds. The one in this video is Zone 4 - your anaerobic threshold. In a lab test this is where you reach 4 mmol of lactate. At this point your body can no longer recycle lactate faster than you produce it. Below this point you can run/cycle etc for long periods of time. Beyond this threshold you are on borrowed time as blood lactate starts to accumulate at an exponential rate. It is also the tipping point where your body's main fuel source tips from fat to carbohydrate. The use of carbohydrate as energy produces lactate as a by product. We now know that this threshold is highly trainable, so pushing this point up changes drastically the amount of time/speed you can run at a steady pace before you accumulate too much lactate and are forced to slow down. For example you enter a marathon and the Kenyans up front have a much higher anaerobic threshold. So they can run at 2:20 pace, burning fat and keeping their lactate under control. However, if you or I try to run at that pace we are well above our threshold and are now using carbohydrate (lots of carbohydrate) and creating lots of lactate which our body can't recycle fast enough. This now accumulates in our blood and changes our blood's ph. This is not good. We then need to slow down or stop to enable our hr to come down and our lactate levels to drop. Meanwhile those Kenyans are cruising off into the distance, still burning fat and keeping their lactate low.
after 10 - 15 second explaination of what threshold HR is SHONA COMES BACK ON AND STATES " now that we know what theshold HR is" NO, the explanation raised more questions than answers. this wrecked your credibility from the get go. waste of time
What? It made sense to me. Go out for an hour run at your highest sustainable effort to complete the run, and whatever your average HR is from the run is your threshold HR
@@joe1071 No, this was shallow in the extreme. They only differentiated between what they're calling threshold and "maximum heart rate efforts"! The underlying biology isn't even mentioned! So no, you don't understand anything, you've confused buzzwords for knowledge.
Yes. Did not even define "threshold" @@csn583 or distinguish between aerobic and anaerobic threshold. I am a coach and I think they took a straight forward topic and confused the hell out of it.
I was also confused, since they didn't mention a time frame but when checking my last hour run, my heart rate curve looks like this and I can estimate the threshold heart rate. Their description was just very vague
If you do a one hour time trial race, you will level off at your threshold. This is well researched. It isn't necessary to start talking about lactate inflection points or any of the other underlying science. This is what she says, so I'm struggling to understand why you are nitpicking
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What percentages ares zone 3,4 and 5 of threshold HR? Thank you.
This makes much more sense than MHR. I am a new runner (6 mos), coming into it from spending 6-8 hour days hiking technical trail at 4-5 km/hr. On an elliptical for 30 min at perceived exhertion similar to HIIT on 'hard trail' my HR is 164-172. I recover to under 100 in 2 minutes. My RHR is 56-60. At 63 years of age my ARHR would be 220-63=157 and Target heart rate at 70% of that is 110 ... couldn't stay there for even a slow run at my comfortable cadence. Thanks for explaining the THR rationale.
I’m with you! I’m 61 and my heart rate goes way too high according to my Fitbit. I need to get a better measurement, but this zone stuff is very limiting if you’re older.
I really like this video regarding using the Average Heart Rate (LTHR) instead of using the MHR to find the heart rate training zones. In your video you didn't explain the formula to calculate for each heart rate training zones. Can you explain the formula so I can calculate each of my training zones when using the average heart rate (LTHR) Thanks
3:00 -- My HR does not stay steady over time UNLESS I ease up on the speed I'm running at. IF I do not drop my speed, my HR just climbs and climbs.
That's due to cardiac drift (increase in HR to keep up with cardiac output due to decrease in blood volume). They do some great videos on that topic. You do not need to reduce your intensity/pace in order to keep your HR in a certain zone during those long runs. The key is to keep the intensity the same.
Very informative. I like the idea of working off the threshold HR rather than peak. I did a hard run and apparently my peak was 191, I am 55 years old so had serious doubts.
However the average for a 2mile (15min) run (which is race pace for me) was 170. So will be using this as my threshold for now.
Got a 5 mile race soon, will use my HR monitor during this and press lap after ten mins so should get an average for the next 25 mins or so.
Great videos, loving your work.
Well, I guess you used wrist HRM. I am 65, and regularly observe HR up to 180+, up to 190! using wrist HRM. Changed to arm HRM and it fixed that: never managed to exceed 160, which seems about right. Invested into chest HRM and it gives the same readings as arm HRM.
@@sergy5337 using chest strap. Guess I just have a high heart rate.
Too short. 30 minute time trial and take your max avg hr for the last 20 minutes.
Excellent thanks. Is the zone 2 number simply 80-85% of threshold, or is it 0.8x(threshold-resting)+resting?
There's a number of comments below that ask about each boundary as a percentage of threshold hr. Would be nice to know each boundary ( for me personally, lower bound for Z2 is what I need ).
Yes exactly. It's a little bit weired to mention 3 boundaries, but only define one of them.
I am older so have some knowledge of the way things were done in the past. I have been training to heart rate for a very long time. Probably more than 30 years. I guess I lived by a book on heart rate training and in that book they did the simple test of slowly increasing speed until the hear rate would start to increase quickly So sort of linearly for a while and then the slop would take off upwards. Also this is the point where your breathing would increase from maybe faster in the beginning but then again increase sharply. I think this was called your Anerobic threshold. Over the years this has been easy to check on every ride or run I did. You could run comfortably and then as you hit that threshold it was not so easy. I have seen that this number only varies slightly over the year and over years as well. It does not depend on your ability to push to some limit which is easy for elite athletes but for us common ones who have the reality of life and sometimes not enough training being able to push hard for 30 minutes is a big variable as sometimes you can really go fast for you for a long time and other times your body wins the discussion and you cannot go fast. I see the point where max is even harder to achieve because maximum effort is variable based on fitness and fatigue and stress. I had good success and fewer injuries when I learned to keep my pace below my AT. The old adage was was feel the burn where you trained as hard as you could most of the time. Thankfully that has gone to the wayside. But I guess my question is could a person base a training schedule and zones using AT and not your Threshold method that I guess takes the average of a hard workout which I have to imagine for weekend warriors would show spikes of increased heart rates with dips as they recover from going to hard and then repeat that. I know elite athletes have a remarkable ability to set a pace and maintain that almost exactly for long periods of time.
Good video. So where is Threshold HR in terms of zone boundaries? I've seen it identified as at the Zone 3/4 boundary, would you agree?
Zone 4/5
He just talked about the obvious and acted it out as if it were new...
I watched the whole video and still don’t know what zone 4 & 5 are according to him. 🙄 thumbs down for dilution
Perfect !! Loved the video , always helpful xxxxxxxxx
can you use the method on say rowing???? thanks
I am a new runner and I can't run for 30minutes all out yet, the most I can do is probably 20 minutes. How do I calculate my zone 2?
Great video, but I'm new to heart rate training and to stay in zone 2 , I'm only walking. How will I ever get faster at running if I'm only walking most of the time?
The point of working at the threshold is that you will become more efficient and soon you will be faster and faster at the same heartrate, and your threshold heartrate (what you can maintain) will gradually increase as well. It's tempting to go too hard but once I allowed myself to slow down, I found myself less burnt out and able to do more consistent volume. Give it time.
Dear Magda I suggest you look for fartlek training, once a week, there are multiple combinations you can find in youtube, but you can for example do a 60 min session divided like this: 15 min warm-up at comfy pace + 7 x (2 min fast/ tempo speed + 3 min easy jog) + 10 min cool-down at comfy pace again. Don't do the fast peaks at your maximum speed, maybe use 85% to prevent injury.
This should help together with increasing your volumes at easy paces on your other days of the week (make sure you do at least 4 workouts per week to grow a good aerobic base that will allow you to sustain speed for longer periods).
Furthermore do core and leg strength conditioning workout as well, this will help you too.
Good luck and good runs :-)
@@carlosvaz2663 Thank you so much
@@csn583 Thank you so much
This is very common for new runners or those who just aren't used to run slowly. You are absolutely right that walking alone won't make you a good runner because it's such a different movement.
Here's a couple of points on this:
- If you can breath through your nose or talk while running, you're most probably in the right zone even if your watch shows something different. Especially if you don't wear a chest belt the measured heart rate might be 10bpm (approx. 5%) off or even more. Also your max heart rate could be different from what your watch assumes.
- If it turns out that slow running really does get you out of zone 2, you can do the run-walk-run method. Run until your hr gets too high and walk until it sinks well into Zone 2 or 1
- Don't be overly religious with this stuff, especially if you'd rather run the whole time than do the run - walk - run thing
Is Threshhold HR related to the Onset of Lactate Accumulation?
Excellent point that upper and lower Z2 have the same* physiological-energy-expenditure benefit! I believe that far too many runners are trying to be overly precise when they attempt to carve this zone up into multiple zones. All we really need to know, and relative-subjective perceived effort is just fine for this (no need for HR monitors), are two zones: our low intensity zone and our high intensity zone...KIS.
*same mitochondrial metabolic regimes activated, the fat and glycogen ones, not the lactate one
What about for people just starting out to run 5k ? Im 56 and relatively fit , Maffetone for the first few weeks? 180 -56 = 124,
Then possibly adopt this videos principle?
Much appreciated
✌️
I'm using a battery operated finger tip device to get Heart BPM readings. Do consider this type of equipment to be accurate ???
If you can't run, will cycling work also or are there adjustments to be made in the numbers to account for the different type of stress?
I'm 32, untrained and trying to find the best time-to-value ratio training to objectively improve my cardio health (not competing). Looking at studies and lived experiences by professionals has been super helpful - so I have some questions;
I'm using an indoor bicycle trainer with a watt meter and HR chest strap. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that sitting as close to max heart rate as you can sustain will yield results the fastest and require the shortest training sessions - but you want to be careful not to go too high or you won't be able to complete your sessions.
So I have prescribed myself a boring interval training routine that I am doing 3 times a week. 30s up at 130% of my FTP, 30s down at 30% and the session lasts 30 minutes.
After the first few intervals my heart-rate plateaus at Z5 for the rest of the session (and yes I feel like I am dying the whole time, ironic that it's dying that I'm trying to avoid with this). My plan is to increase the interval difficulty over time (by raising my FTP and maintaining the intervals at 130% of that).
In your experience, is this an effective form of training if your goal is improving cardiac health?
Hi, Interesting video. What are the percentages needed to calculate the other zones?
interested in this calculation based on threshold hr as well.
Yes I was wondering about the lower limit for zone2. I am guess g maybe 70% of threshold.
Fantastic video.
Training at Threshold is how you increase your Aerobic capacity. Train at or just above 100% of aerobic capacity, rest to recover, and the next time you train, your threshold will be higher... (lots of other variables to consider, but the concept is relatively simple and complex all at the same time)
Just hard enough to start producing a little bit of lactate, but not enough that you can't sustain it.
This is good advice.
This cycle I’ve been doing “1000m” repeats. ( guestimation)
Started hard effort around 3:40
10x1000m
One month later did 20x1000m at 3:30-45
Two weeks later.
Did 2x 5k @ that pace.
After 15 miles AM
And finally I’m running them 3:20 same moderate effort.
Hoping for 2:30 marathon.
A "little bit of lactate" (2mmol) starts in Z2. Z4 (anaerobic threshold) is typically estimated at 4mmol.
Arent there two thresholds? When I am doing a 400m interval at "threshold" or a 1000m interval at "threshold", do I need to reach my threshold heart rate at the end of the interval?
Very interesting - many thanks! If one knows the lactate threshold heart rate and trains according to the respective LTHR zones (1-5), how about racing? Is there any guidance in which LTHR zone your marathon (Z3?), half marathon (Z4?) and 10K (LTHR?) should be? Alternatively, is there a simple calculator, where one can 'translate' a LTHR or a race result into LTHR zones for other distances?
From my experience(just based on my running watch), my racing HR is a few beats below the LTHR if not bang on it. The average heart rate in my previous marathon ended up being 173bpm, and my LTHR just before the marathon was about 175bpm.
@@pontshomatlhebegoane4716lactate threshold is not a single heart rate number
So let's say my avg. HR on a 35min run (5:30/km) is 175bpm (185bpm at the end). That would suggest a upper limit of zone 2 of around 145bpm. When I do my Easy Runs (6:45/km - 7:15/km) I end up running at a avg. HR of 154bpm (it's like the magic number for me), wich puts me in zone 3 (I can run 90min like that and still feel like I could continue). It is impossible to get below 145bmp even I go extremly slow (~8:00/km). The running gets too unefficient. Does anybody have suggestions for changes or will a drop in HR come over the years.
Background:
At the moment I do around 2-3x Easy/Recovery, 1x Tempo and 1x Intervals per week. 2-3x Gym, 1-2x Cycling or Swimming and 1-2x Bouldering per week. I've been doing gym work for a couple of years now, but started reducing it for more cardio workouts since 3 months ago.
Should the zones get adjusted for hot vs cold weather running? Do the zones you get if you do your threshold test on a hot and humid day apply for cold weather running?
It'll vary, also by level of fatigue and even what surface you're running on. Also different between sports. But any one is a starting place to work out the others. You'll learn to feel it.
Heat will affect your hr. However remember Hr is an input. On a cooler day you would be able to put out the same Hr, but your output (power/pace) will be higher.
im curious about how my threshold changes with training.. when I get notified "you set a new HR threshold" what does that really mean? Also, I'd love to hear this whole video again framed around cycling!!
I believe LTHR is simply the HR you have on record, or are projected to hold for 60 minutes straight. Since LTHR is time based, it should factor in cardiac drift. I think...😃
Great video - on my Grmin it allows me to enter Lactate Threshold Heart rate - is this the same thing please?
Threshold heart rate sounds like it is your heart rate just before you die. Got it. 👍
Best one yet for me. Thanks for explaining threshold so well.
What if you don’t want to run? I hate running and cannot run for 30 min…at 66 I use an elliptical, would that work?
My Max Threshold is 162, so my easy run, heart rate must be in 128 -137 bpm?
So Zone 2 is 80 to 85% of threshold heart rate - but you don't tell us what Zone 4 is (and what happened to Zone 3, by the way?). I appreciate the information about heart rate lagging behind exercise by up to a minute, but I would be interested to know how quickly heart rate drops off with rest. Lacking a chest strap I will often check my heart rate simply by palpating the pulse at my wrist the moment I finish a run (for 15 seconds, usually) and I think that should be reasonably accurate, no?
My understanding is that you try to avoid training in Z3 also called the 'grey' area as it offers little for performance improvement and is higher cost on the body.
I have a garmin fenix. I decided to take advice and run at zone 2 easy run. I realised I'm just cruising at 130-5 bpm sustainable for 9km. After this for the same perceived exertion I need to slow right down to sustain zone two as it bumps up to zone 3. 13-14km my garmin is in zone 4-5!!! I am going slower and my perceived exertion is still chill.... But garmin is off the charts. I think it must be garmin error. I take my pulse and it is 120... Must be garmin error
Lookup Cardiac drift. Basically as your run drags out your heart rate increases.
@@chrism589 much appreciated. Just that manual HR check doesnt match. I then used chest strap and whne Garmin is 180 chest strap is 160 which matches my manual count.
@@nateo745 If that far off yes it sounds like the Garmin is having problems, perhaps sweat interfering.
5:00 this is gold, talking Zones and how to caculate! using Threshhold HR is something I must agree with!
My Max Threshold is 162, so my easy run, heart rate must be in 128 -137 bpm?
superb 😀
Doctors are so scared of lawsuits that my doctor uses a machine that controls the way that a stress test gets administrated. It automatically turns off the treadmill at certain point. At that very point, I was definitely far away from my maximum heart rate.
Same for me. I had a stress test and they stopped it when my heart rate reached a certain level, the official reason on the report being “exhaustion”. I was sweaty, but I could’ve run for another 10 minutes.
Perfect timing!! I'm getting back to running after going on meds for high BP. It's like having a whole new body! (Well, with the same old niggles. ) I'm now seeing the massive pace slow down i experienced 3 years ago was due to BP. Training with HR became a shuffling slog. Now, I'm doing run/ walk to ease back in, but I'm running faster with a WAY lower heartrate. So my question is, for those of us on BP meds, do all the same HR rules still apply?
I believe it will depend on what blood pressure meds you are on. Some of them (not usually first-line drugs these days) will slow your heart rate down (eg. metoprolol, atenolol, any of the other -lols, and diltiazem, verapamil) but the others will not affect it
@@anthonyglaser8972 I'm on metoprolol, which does slow the heartrate. My resting heartrate is only about 5 beats lower, but when running it's looking like 15-20 lower, which puts me in a more"normal" range. (As a pretty fit and otherwise healthy runner, I had to run at about 4-4.3 mph on the treadmill to stay in the 140-143 range before!) When going by perceived exertion during races, my conversational pace was much faster, but my steady hr was 160-164... not great during marathons and 50ks, I guess?
@@Kelly_Ben I suspect that might affect your endurance challenges. I would ask your doctor if there is a particular reason you are on metoprolol - as I mentioned, it is not normally a first-line blood pressure drug, unless you have other issues or have had problems tolerating other classes of blood pressure meds. If there is no particular reason you are on it, you might ask to change to something else that will not affect heart rate or HR response to exercise
@@anthonyglaser8972 I did a little googling earlier and saw that my asthma might be a factor in med choices, but I just assumed the metoprolol WAS a first line med! I'm only 43, but had what at the time appeared to be a minor heart attack. I'll definitely ask for a review of everything. Thanks! (I'm NOT ready to give up my 50ks! 😆)
@@Kelly_Ben Having had a heart attack would certainly be a reason to be on metoprolol, although it may not clinch it, and there is some debate about its benefit. There are also theoretical reasons why drugs of the metoprolol class are inappropriate for people with asthma, although the evidence is a bit mixed (and is may depend on the dose). A bigger question is of course why you had the heart attack in the first place, of course! (I am not asking you to disclose anything, just saying). Good luck. PS - I am a newly-retired family doctor, but please don''t construe this as medical advice as such!
Why can't i save this video on a youtube playlist?
I am still confused for the speed/intensity while you are doing all one-hour workout to find the Treshold. Is it just by feeling? nice talk! thanks Shona I like your glasses!
A standard and simple test is a 30 minute time trail and take your average Hr for the last 20 minutes as the first ten minutes is affected by lag. As a coach I think this video is quite poor and confusing.
@geoffnash2609 I'm just starting out on a running for fitness (not necessarily speed) in my mid fifties. I know it's late but hey.... Anyway, are you more or less agreeing with what they said in the video about measuring THR? Once I have measured this I can then think about the next stage - how to calculate and use zones. Unfortunately most of the video is confusing and unhelpful talk about zones without clearly providing important info. The fact that there are so many (unanswered as far as I can tell) questions in the comments about how to calculate any of the different zones based on THR confirms this.
I really need a video on how to calculate my own Zone 2 because I’m so confused! My Polar sets my zone 2 at between 118-137 However, the highest my heart rate has ever reached at peak during a race is 197 and my resting heart rate is usually between 54-60 depending upon how stressed or overtrained I am. Should I be using my Polar standard or the Karvonen method and if so how do I calculate it because some calculators are saying that my Zone 2 should be 150-160 🤷🏻♂️ HELP! 😩
i use karvonen and it seems much more accurate
okay. you can do this by tuning into your breathing. At the top of Zone 2 there is a noticeable change in ventilation. This is why zone 2 is sometimes referred to as "ventilatory threshold". Do a warm up and build up your pace etc and get up a good puff, then do an easy walk/jog for 5 minutes to bring your hr down. Now start slowly and gradually pick up your pace, the key here is gradually, all the time taking note of your breathing. remember your heart rate lags behind your effort so you want to build up slowly. At a certain point you will go from breathing easily and being able to chat or whistle to needing to breathe far more deeply and often. When you hit this point, take note of your Hr. ease up and do this 2 or 3 more times and note your Hr each time to confirm your result. The point at which your breathing changes is the upper end of Zone 2. It is quite a broad range so typically it spans 10 - 15 beats, so working in a 10 beat range from the upper end is pretty spot on.
@@geoffnash2609 Thank you so much 🙏🏽
That´s is low upper limit for zone 2 to me. My VT1 is 154 messured by spirogometry (by the way Garmin has exactly the same estimate) so 80% of this is 123bpm, 85% would be 130. I think I can´t run at all with 123 and very, very slow with 130. Do I missunderstand you?
I am on the same page with this training, I’ve tried to stay in zone 2 I can’t stay in zone 2 even at the upper end while running. I’m walking 80% of any given run….I’m not sure how one gets that improved???
And I’m also running REALLY slowly for me, the most frustrating thing watching those HR zones… I honestly don’t mind the speed it’s that I can stay in zone 2 lol
I think what they mean is 80-85% of your VT2 not VT1. VT2 = lactate threshold
@@christopheryec3695 Could be...
There is also LT1 and LT2. VT1 and LT1 are more or less the same translated to heartrate.
Iv been doing the maffetone method for the last 1 month. I'm 50 so using a HR of 130 but my garmin 6x puts that in the middle of zone 1 based on data it has gathered from me. I'm really curious what a difference running in zone 2 would mean for me.
Garmin calculates your max HR with the formula of 220 minus your age. For me, that's 160bpm since I'm 60 years old. This is a generic and broad formula and isn't accurate for older runners. Actually, it's even debated who came up with it or even if its valid. I suspected this was inaccurate when my wrist watch was sometimes giving me readings of up to 170bpm while still not flat out.
At first I thought it was my watch being inaccurate even though it was a high end Garmin watch. Then I bought an accurate chest monitor strap and that was the same...actually my watch and chest strap have similar accuracy which is good to know from my watches perspective. So then I started to question the accuracy of the HR zones in the Garmin Connect app and sure enough, after doing a bit of research, I stumbled on an old runner by the name of Ralph who has a utube channel called "Ageless Runner" who highlighted this. He said there is another formula out there called the HUNT fitness formula which is more accurate especially for older people. So when I keyed in my data into the HUNT formula, my max HR was 174bpm. While this was a way better ballpark than Garmins 160bpm and more accurate, I still felt it was a few beats too slow to reflect when I did those few runs where I hit 170bpm while not flat out. Ralph did a video and one of these tests for your max HR where you do a series of flat out intervals to get your max HR and he even found that the HUNT formula was out by about 8bpm. I agreed with this because the times I did those 170bpm runs, I felt I wasn't maxed out and still had another 10-15bpm left in the tank. But even if you use the standard HUNT formula, it's certainly a lot more accurate and closer to that of the 160bpm that Garmin uses. But I do believe that my max HR is 182bpm instead of even the HUNTS 174bpm. This is 22bpm over Garmins formula and a real game changer if your doing heart rate training, maffatone, or if your a recovering triple heart bypass patient like me whose heart rate monitoring is critical.
So thankfully Garmin Connect allows me to adjust my max HR and my zones to this new formula and now my zones reflects my efforts a lot better. Before on the old formula, I would do runs which would feel like only about 75-80% effort and I'd be in the red maximum zone for most of the run. This was highly alarming for my medical condition. Now my zones for the same type runs would be near 50-50 between the green and the lower end of the orange zone scale which would be more reflective of my efforts. I can't stress how critical this difference is to me when you are using heart rate zones for your training. Chances are they you are probably under training on your maffatone and probably struggled to contain a slow HR in your training. Hope this might help.
@@patrickokeeffe4787 thanks for your in depth reply. I didn't realize that garmin used the 220 formula, I know you can manually adjust it as well but I thought it would be based on the data it had gathered from my chest strap as it must know my max HR is higher than the 220 formula from previous hard runs plus the lactate threshold being recorded so I assumed my zones would have been automatically adjusted according to the data rather than the 220 formula.
I would have expected a discussion on cardiac drift to feature. Cardiac drift can have a huge influence on threshold HR.
Breath testing is in the here and now re assessing and adjusting according to one's present condition
How? Cardiac drift refers to an increase in hr given a steady output. If you do a standard test (30 minute TT and taking the last 20 minutes avg), yes your Hr is going to increase, but hat is why you use the last 20 minutes, the initial increase in Hr which is the most dramatic is taken out of the estimate. If, toward the end of a test you are able to push your hr higher, then that's is what you are able to do and that is reflected in the result. There is nothing wrong with that.
If you set a target output (power/pace) and hold that steady to measure cardiac drift then you are more than likely artificially limiting the effort and will end up with an unreliable result.
Also cardiac drift as a measure of running economy is much more reliable for lower intensity efforts (such as zone 2) and not really a useful tool for measuring anaerobic threshold (zone 4) improvement or economy.
I hear what they are saying, but what's the intent? The group here does not appear to be athletically built which makes it hard for me to align with them. Doesn't mean you have to practice what you preach, but I'd have more confidence in your points for sure.
Thank you for this valuable video! It helps me a lot, but, when I started to test my heart rate threshold should I run in the marathon pace?
Could I take my average HR over a half marathon race to be my Threshold Heart Rate?
There will be a lag from the start. I would take your highest average 30 minute Hr.
Excellent information
If my threshold is 166 for 40 minutes, what is my zone 2?
Should be 135-140 bpm (upper limit). Lower perhaps 120.
@@clas683 Thank you!
I don't believe that a max HR or a threshold HR is an either/or choice. If you want a full picture, you need an accurate measure of both. This is because the best measure of your fitness is in how close to your maximum HR your threshold HR is. Your max is fixed. It is painful to find out what it is, but it must be found with the highest effort you have ever exerted. Then, with whatever method you can find your threshold, whether you believe your watch, or do a step test to find the break point in HR vs effort, how close threshold approaches max says what potential you have to improve. 20% below max? You can do way better. Work harder. 5% below max? Be happy. You ain't gonna get much better!
I think a more accurate measure of fitness is Vo2 max and what percentage of Vo2 max you can operate at, not max hr.
I am sorry, but they never explained how to calculate anything.
Its called finding that point where you dont puke heart rate.
On that graph the upper limit of zone 2 is about 50% of HR
My 5k time is under 20 mins, while my zone 2/ easy run pace is around 10mins per mile, my HR when running easy is definitely lower than 80% of THR.
80% as lower boundary of zone 2 is way too high.
For some yes. It depend on your physiology. There is a great range of variance between individuals. Nothing good or bad about it, it's just the way you are wired.
Why do you call it "Threshold"? Threshold to what?
There are several thresholds. The one in this video is Zone 4 - your anaerobic threshold. In a lab test this is where you reach 4 mmol of lactate. At this point your body can no longer recycle lactate faster than you produce it. Below this point you can run/cycle etc for long periods of time. Beyond this threshold you are on borrowed time as blood lactate starts to accumulate at an exponential rate. It is also the tipping point where your body's main fuel source tips from fat to carbohydrate. The use of carbohydrate as energy produces lactate as a by product. We now know that this threshold is highly trainable, so pushing this point up changes drastically the amount of time/speed you can run at a steady pace before you accumulate too much lactate and are forced to slow down.
For example you enter a marathon and the Kenyans up front have a much higher anaerobic threshold. So they can run at 2:20 pace, burning fat and keeping their lactate under control. However, if you or I try to run at that pace we are well above our threshold and are now using carbohydrate (lots of carbohydrate) and creating lots of lactate which our body can't recycle fast enough. This now accumulates in our blood and changes our blood's ph. This is not good. We then need to slow down or stop to enable our hr to come down and our lactate levels to drop. Meanwhile those Kenyans are cruising off into the distance, still burning fat and keeping their lactate low.
after 10 - 15 second explaination of what threshold HR is SHONA COMES BACK ON AND STATES " now that we know what theshold HR is" NO, the explanation raised more questions than answers. this wrecked your credibility from the get go. waste of time
What? It made sense to me. Go out for an hour run at your highest sustainable effort to complete the run, and whatever your average HR is from the run is your threshold HR
@@joe1071 No, this was shallow in the extreme. They only differentiated between what they're calling threshold and "maximum heart rate efforts"! The underlying biology isn't even mentioned! So no, you don't understand anything, you've confused buzzwords for knowledge.
Yes. Did not even define "threshold" @@csn583 or distinguish between aerobic and anaerobic threshold. I am a coach and I think they took a straight forward topic and confused the hell out of it.
I was also confused, since they didn't mention a time frame but when checking my last hour run, my heart rate curve looks like this and I can estimate the threshold heart rate. Their description was just very vague
If you do a one hour time trial race, you will level off at your threshold. This is well researched. It isn't necessary to start talking about lactate inflection points or any of the other underlying science. This is what she says, so I'm struggling to understand why you are nitpicking