That is one reason why I have so many unread paperbacks. I bought books that I wanted to read, when they were available, because if I waited until I was ready to read them, they would be impossible to find.
I've thought about this problem myself for a long time. Even a writer who has been relatively successful may have items that he would like to see reprinted or printed on demand but no publisher will touch because they just aren't likely to have much of an audience ten, twenty, thirty years later. The problem in my opinion is the reform of the Copyright laws in the United States. It used to be 28 years, renewable for 28 years and at the end of 56 years the book fell into the Public Domain. Now it's life plus 75 years. This was intended to benefit authors and their heirs. But now it's very difficult to figure out (1) who are the heirs that own the Copyrights after the death of the authors (especially 20 plus years later.)? (2) when did the author die ? (Unless the author is very famous that may be a puzzle in itself.) So in many cases you really cannot tell who holds the copyright, and when it actually falls into the Public Domain. I don't think as a publisher I would want to fund an investigation to determine when this forgotten author died, and which of his heirs acquired his copyrights. One of the reasons I've thought of this was because I have been thinking of becoming a digital reprint publisher and concluded I would only try to reprint books of authors who were still alive and owned the copyrights to their previously published works. B list dead writers will have to wait until 75 years after their death for their books to fall into the Public Domain to find a re-publisher. And by then their works may be completely forgotten along with their reputation as authors. There are always unexpected results from major changes in the laws, and this, I think, is one of them.
Its soooooooo annoying when books you want are out of print !! DO IT OLLY …. A very interesting video and I’d love to Find out how this would pan out ,however where do you even start ? Keep us updated .
For a lot of older books I wonder if the manuscript doesn't exist digitally. I remember reading something about the digitisation of the manuscript of The Lord of the Rings which made it seem like quite an arduous task.
I can't speak to the rest of the world but the reason lots of books aren't turned into ebooks comes down to a legal ruling in the US. In Random House v. Rosetta Books (2002) the Second Circuit ruled that Random House needed to renegotiate deals with its authors (or the estates) to publish their physical copy books in eBook format. It's never been challenged in any meaningful way because the court case would probably be ridiculously expensive.
I'm writing a book. Scary stories. Science fiction. I hope a bit of humour. It's going well. Just created the "monster that is scary but makes people cry" one...successfully it seems. OPEN QUESTION 🙋. I would like some suggestions for another creature/monster. Shamless fishing.
I always wondered the same, its really frustrating. Halloween novelisation (1979) Texas Chainsaw Massacre novelisation (2004) The Nightmare On Elm Street parts 1,2,3 novelisation (1987) I really want to read these books but they are so expensive. Why is an ebook for these so difficult to publish?
I love out of print or hard to find issues but to answer your question there ( according to publishers ) there's no demand. I want Tales of A mangy Lover Groucho Marx.. only 40 to 60.
What a strange question. Books go out of print when there isn't enough demand to justify continuing to print them. There are probably literally 1000s of crime books in that category.
Back online. I bet there are a variety of reasons. Where rights reside is almost certainly one, in some cases. When a small publisher goes out of business, it's not always easy to unwrap where the rights reside and track that owner down for permissions. Also, copyright laws here have changed over time, and it may be complicated by what system applied when the book was published. Then we get into the mire of how each publishing house handled their ever-growing catalogs. Some probably kept up on their properties and did more printings based on demand, while others - especially in the pulpier markets - probably didn't even bother to count and just jammed out as many as they figured they could sell then moved on to new titles. THEN we add in new technologies, changing ownerships in businesses and writers and all parties involved, and entirely undreamed of options. Some contracts stipulate just print, some just print in individual cover, some broadcast rights ... if there are multiple parties with different sets of rights, they probably all need to be consulted or notified or something... and all of it equals money. And time. And experienced staff. The last 2 factors are really big limitations right now, I suspect. So many places shed so many employees, and publishing is changing so much that entire departments are no doubt in flux. Anyway. It's a quagmire, as one of my favorite characters in NYPD Blue once said.
Doubtful. Most books don't sell that well on their first printing, (I'm not talking about best sellers.) If they sell respectably a publisher might consider reprinting them provided he believes there is a market-- usually at least a decade or so later. Beyond that there simply is rarely going to be a market for the work. Even historical or technical works which don't age as quickly (or have as much competition) as novels or other fiction, don't get reprinted very often.
I wouldn't say publishing is easy. I've looked into both Godless and Amazon's thing and they're both over my head. I was able to get one out with Lulu but it was rough and I don't think I did it right. I've tracked down all Smith's crab books except Sacrifice. I have noticed this the past couple years. Books readily available, though a little pricey causing me to put them off, then the next thing I know they are out of print and the price sky rockets. As an example, Brian Evenson. There's a set of four whose covers make a single image. I started to get them and Last Days was the last I needed. It wasn't the most expensive just the one I wanted the least. When I was ready to get it, out of print. Now hundreds if you can find it. Very annoying. Similar thing happened with Grady Hendrix's Satan Loves You. Available, but more than I wanted to pay, put it off, and now nowhere to be found. Frustrating. You almost have to buy the books as they're released as you never know how long they will be available. Double annoying if you find out about them too late.
I think it has to do with copyright. Even digital books cost money to the author. I want to book Shogun by James Clavel, it is not available in the Netherlands. Even the Hobbit is not available as an epub
Some of the answer is rights, particularly for books that have a potential to sell if reissued. The other part of why older books are not available is that there are no digital files. This ties in to thinking that electronic products are "easier" to create. They are not. Digitizing a book ranges from scanning to rekeying the book. Both have their issues and both need to go through quality checks and proofreading. These are costs that have to be paid upfront, no matter how the book is published. Quite frankly, most books won't sell enough even to make those costs back. That is why you don't see more out of print titles go to digital release. There are likely other reasons as well. My day job is as a production editor for an academic publisher and part of my responsibility was handling our reprints. Most of our physical printing would be described as short-run, to minimize storage and printing costs. Quite a few titles were reprinted electronically. Needless to say, the marketing people had alot of input.
That’s a good point about digitisation. I guess they are easier if you have a clean digital file to work from, but if you have to scan physical books I can see how it would be harder. I read a a JG Ballard ebook (from a big publisher) a few years back that was riddled with what were obviously OCR errors
It would be an interesting thing to do. I'd love to know how to do it myself as I have a number of (technical) books I would love to get the rights to and publish. I suppose it depends if the author assigned the copyright to the publisher or granted them an exclusive licence. And what happens when the author dies ? Does the copyright immediately stay with the publisher ? I have no idea but it seems like in practice it does. There should be a mandatory use it or lose it clause. Doing nothing will just make future sales worse if anything, as readers forget the book and author.
Someone should look into rights to books, one would need an attorney to make sure that they get all of the rights but it's probably possible to buy rights and reprint books that publishing companies will not reprint, actually I'm not sure why critics don't do this more often...
I find it's more difficult for me to find digital and audio versions of some new books, some like new Yrsa Sigurdardottir books don't have digital versions because she switched publishers. And books like God Killer aren't getting digital and audio versions for about 6 months after they're physically published. I think the digital publishing world is going to get very complicated soon, and things will only be available on certain platforms if at all.
That would be so much fun Ollie for us to follow along on a journey to get a book republished. Surely some of your listeners would know how. I hope we get to do this.
I've thought about this recently regarding the science fiction writer Bob Shaw. His books are all out of print as physical editions but many are available as ebooks. However one of his key books Other Days, Other Eyes isn't available as an ebook, and its last reprint was in the 1970s. Consequently although many Shaw books can be found second-hand for low prices, copies of Other Days, Other Eyes go for huge amounts online. The Outlaw Bookseller did a video about Shaw a few months ago where he said he'd heard that the Shaw estate wanted more money for some reprint rights than the publisher was willing to pay.
I love older books and I've been annoyed about the same thing. This was a great topic for discussion. I also think it's unendingly frustrating when publishers want to hold back or edit older books for the language used, it's part of the history of the time...that's my opinion on it anyway. Disney ruined one of my favourite movies for changing the language and pacing of an old Irish man (Darby O'Gill and the Little People)....I was devastated and it was entirely unnecessary. Anyway, that's my rant.
I recently managed to get my hands on the Bachman Books ( including Rage!) I found a pretty cheap copy I couldn't believe my luck. Maybe one day I'll manage to get Rage on its own, although it's highly unlikely - and out of my budget 😢😢
I've been trying to find Robert R McCammon books (physical). I find it almost impossible..unless I want to spend a pretty penny for them on ebay, and even on there I can hardly ever find them. So frustrating.
What I don't get is NO KINDLE version. I was looking for books on Feudalism today and some of them are $100 to $200 but no Kindle edition so I just gave up.
Bizarre... I just read Goldman's Magic over the weekend. What are the odds I'd go online and the first thing I'd find was someone mentioning it? :) And last week I read Girl of the Sea of Cortez by Peter Benchley, so... we're on a wavelength here. Yep, a lot of things being out of print drives me nuts. Until a couple of years ago most of Shirley Jackson's stuff was out of print, which is madness to me. Library of America fixed that, but that it ever happened at all is crazy. And all of Karl Edward Wagner's stuff should be in print, too... one or two have snuck back into print recently, but ALL of his stuff should be out there. Clair Huffaker is a great writer and is also getting hard to find. There's a relatively obscure Australian writer I'm crazy about, Kenneth Cook, and it's difficult to find almost any of his stuff. Wake In Fright came back out, luckily, but most of his books are super-rare. The Charles Birkin books need to be brought back, for sure. Thanks to Valancourt for the ones that are back. They also brought back Michael McDowell, which is great. I love Valancourt. Yep, Guy N. Smith is getting rare. Somebody needs to start looking at what's going for big money in the used book market and get those back in print, because if they're fetching big bucks for beat-up copies, there's obviously a big market for 'em. Whoever re-releases Eat Them Alive by Pierce Nace, or Cold Front by Barry Hammond, is going to make a truckload of cash. (And I'm wanting them in paper... I don't do digital at all).
"[The Collected Pulp Horror] is not in print anymore, you can't get it." I sighed loudly when you said this. As the years go by, and more and more "pickers," many of whom can't even read the back of a cereal box, scavenge thrift shops for these books to hawk online, they're only going to get harder and more expensive to acquire. I see a digital black market, growing faster than the black mold in my bathtub, sprouting up, not necessarily to make money, but just to preserve them, no different than, say, religious orders smuggling out icons and relics in response to the iconoclasts and the hordes of zealots who want to expunge anything from the past that either hurts their feelings or "offends" them. But nothing will take the place of being able to hold a piece of history in your hands. In the end, though, it all turns to dust anyway. The Internet Archive is still an invaluable resource--though "they" are trying to destroy it. Great video. Subscribed.
Two reasons: the ebook publishing rights need to be negotiated, and a digital ebook needs to be created. Both are difficult (and impossible if the rights-holder says no) and time-consuming and probably not worth it financially for obscure novels.
This would be a very intriguing project to video document, perhaps crowd fund on something like Kickstarter. I suspect a common hurdle is likely to be actually determining who owns the rights on a certain author’s works, a real legal mystery especially with niche genres by now obscure authors. 🧐
Exactly. Suppose the author dies childless ? Or the author had heirs but his heirs passed away without clearly leaving heirs or had many heirs themselves. A legal mess ?
The craziest example I can think of is Robin Hobb. She’s an extremely popular fantasy author. Before publishing epic fantasy under this name, she published a number of other fantasy books under the name Megan Lindholm. Those are all out of print and go for crazy prices on the used book market. Yet her publisher seems to have absolutely no interest in reprinting her earlier work, even though it’s obvious that a sizable portion of her fans would gobble them up. It’s easy to say that the people in the industry know their market and that it just wouldn’t be profitable. But there are so many times when the knowledgeable industry people have been proven wrong. I simply don’t know whether obtaining the digital rights to middle aged books would be a decent business. Even Library of America has taken to doing selections, rather than being more completist. An interesting statistic on this (which I got from Nassim Taleb) is that, if a book has been in print for X years, there is a 50% chance that it will be in print in another X years.
Unless the earlier books had an unusual contact I would think that Hobb would hold the ebook rights still and I wonder why she wouldn't publish them as ebooks herself. Is it possible she has some kind of noncompete in her contact for her more recent books that would prevent her releasing them? Or perhaps she doesn't like them and wouldn't publish them as ebooks because of that???
@@BookChats She maintains a website under her old name (neither is her real name though Megan Lindholm is close). Thus, I doubt that she truly dislikes her earlier work. She decided to publish her Elderling and Soldier’s Son books using the Hobb name to demarcate the Epic Fantasy work from the Urban Fantasy work. I have no idea what her contracts say, but it seems likely the explanation lies there.
It is one of the greatest tragedies of our era that we are letting works fade into the void, when we have the means to publish and distribute them with digital and print on demand. Libraries are one of the last bastions, that we have to protect with vigor from the greedy hands of our era.
In 2018, a small publisher had annouced to publish The Amityville Horror for the first time in Germany, as a hardcover exclusively, as the right holders wouldn't give a license for an e-book edition. Unfortunately, that publisher has ceased operations before it actually came out and although another independent publisher showed interest in it, they put their efforts "on hold". And I have a strong suspicion (without any proof, not even a hint), that is because they won't get it as an e-book. I recently bought a book (physical copy) I was casually looking for since 1985 (at that point in time, it was oop for probably around 10-15 years). The problem was to find it for a reasonable price in decent condition. Recently, it was re-published in a revised version (pc language) as e-book (5,99€) and print on demand hardcover & paperback by another independent publisher. I almost feel a bit guilty for not supporting their efforts but the copy of the old paperback edition I found at an online used book shop was in such an unbelievable good condition and as I ordered some other books there it kind of minimized the shipping costs per item. I paid less than 15,50€ in total for 10 books. Not gonna lie, if I can get a bargain I'll take it.
I dealt with one SF writer who could not get his rights back from Bantam. They didn't want to do e-books, but they apparently didn't want him to go elsewhere either. I'm sure he could lawyer that out but I note his books are still not available a decade later. Also a delusional agent who over-valued his late client's novel right out of the market. Some old-school authors told me they flat-out hated the concept of e-books so: no. Sometimes the novel rights are tied up with a movie studio and then they're really difficult to unravel. I'm surprised about the Benchley titles -- that feels like maybe a fight between his widow and the publisher(s). And I feel I've heard somewhere that the Crabs books are just moving to a different publisher and will be re-launched at some point (I've heard that about some Ramsey Campbell titles too). It's quite a puzzle box for some titles, that's for sure. Good luck!
I do hope the Smith books get republished soon, it feels like there’s a bit of interest in him at the moment so feels like the right time for a relaunch!
Over my years of being the book business... You mentioned it... That some titles are not yet in the public domain. I'll use Robert Heinlein for an example... But after his death, his estate held the rights, not the publisher. And some authors estate hold out for the most money from the publishers. You're right.. it's very annoying, but that's why I do what I do. I am always on the look for vintage paperbacks in thrift stores or yard and garage sales. When I want a certain book.. I go on a mission 😂
I suspect the Valancourt boys would love to get that Birkin book if they knew about it (and I presume they do), but I know they've also said quite a few of the books people suggest they republish are rights nightmares.
I can recommend those two Birkin volumes from Valancourt, as they each have some quite disturbing stories. I wonder if writing to Valancourt and expressing interest in further Birkin reprints would help. I think I'll do that.
I’ll definitely check them out. And a couple of people have pointed out that Coconuts is available in an old Wheatley edited collection which is much easier to get hold of. I’ve ordered a copy.
@@CriminOllyBlog That's good news. I looked for that Wheatley collection, and it seems interesting. Most of the stories in it I have not read. I may have to pick up a copy. I did get a reply from Valancourt saying that they may release more Birkin collections in the future, but they have no current plans.
@@Robbo_C ah that’s interesting! Maybe I should review the two they’ve done already on the channel and try to drive up sales! I’ll let you know what the Wheatley collection is like
totally agree i wonder if it could be to do with contracts? writers get "reversion rights" if certain amounts aren't published over a certain time etc but can't imagine that it would affect big time writers like Ed McBain. Less popular writers have books that unfortunately just die.
It is a shame that things go OOP but in the internet age it is much easier to find a copy of almost anything but in some cases you will pay through the nose. I remember as a kid in the 90’s before the internet I had to pay someone a finders fee to locate a few OPP books I wanted and then I believe she had them mailed to me. Now all I have to do is get on eBay and you can find a copy in almost any condition from acceptable to new.
Books generally go out of print for 3 main reasons. They stop selling so it's a financial decision. Sometimes they are taken out if print to build up demand so they can release new copies and sometimes the copywrite goes back to the author or their estates.
Hi Olly!! I've noticed there's a renewed interest in older books, music, movies, etc... It seems one of the reasons for that is today's pop culture has been dumbed down while the quality of art in all its forms has gone down quite a bit and people are looking for substance. And I agree trying to find a good book that's been out of print is annoying.
I think some books are out of print as you said due to issues with the estate after the author passed away. I also think it comes down to the author not being a house hold name anymore and that a lot of people feel their material may be “out dated” or not as scary, horrific etc as something published today would be. It would be interesting to see what it would take to get the copy write to be able to self publish those books or turn them into e books. Sad thing is, is that publishers seem to forget that there are people out there who fondly remember those writers that are out of print and would buy copies to reread and possibly share them with friends and family.
In some cases, like TwoMorrows publishing, who have published my articles in BACK ISSUE, the publisher is a small operation and their books and some of their magazines go out of print after a couple of years, some of their more recent publications have been put in PDF format, but others are still unavailable. I've had to search like mad for books, comics and magazines from various publishers when they go out of print. It's irritating, especially when I need to do research and have a tight deadline. All The Best, James Heath Lantz Freelance Writer Staff Writer for Back Issue magazine 2021 Eisner Award nominee, 2019 winner, "Best Comics-Related Periodical/Journalism"
A few books you’ve mentioned previously that I searched for, I ended up finding despite them being out of print. They are on open library through the Internet archive. Just took a look and The Second Suspect by Heather Lewis is there and I was able to find previously Dearest by Peter Loughran among others. There have been some I can’t find anywhere and am unable/unwilling to spend a lot of money for them. So I would be very interested to see how it goes if you make an attempt to get the rights!
The major problem is unfortunately electronic reproduction of older works . It is easy to forget that the electronic world is still relatively new . The contracts for many of the older works would not have contained rights for non physical media as it did not exist. There is simply not the market for a renegotiation of rights, that as you say maybe held by multiple parties, and lawyers do not come cheap It is also why books adapted to movies tend to remain in print as the rights usually have undergone extremely complex negotiations , dealing with multi media reproduction . It is one of the issues that have arisen from the move on line that will eventually rectify itself. All new publishing contracts will have clauses for multi media reproduction and the older contracts will fall into public domain .We just happened unfortunately to fall into the contractual hinterland .
I have wondered that same thing for years especially when you see the money the old copies sell for. I hope you are able to gain the rights and publish. That would be fantastic.
America’s copyright system is a mess because of Disney repeatedly lobbying for extensions. I wonder if switching to a profit-based copyright system would help. If (past a sensible time period like 20 years) you don’t earn something like $1000 per year, it just gets tossed into the public domain. We shouldn’t have companies just sitting on all these books without even earning anything off them.
@@waverlyking6045 Of course, but most published authors lack the resources to self publish (and perhaps the knowledge as well) so very little is going to get done unless a Commercial Publisher is interested,
@@frankmorlock9134 One thing I do know is that landing a deal with one of the big publishers is extremely difficult. And even getting a deal is no guarantee that you will stay with them forever nor is it a guarantee that your work will enjoy longevity. Right now, our culture is losing a lot of great books, movies, and music.
@@waverlyking6045 No doubt about that. But it's a lot better situation than it was thirty years ago before the Internet, Project Gutenberg, The Internet Text Archive,. and other sites that have made lots of books available that were almost impossible to find in any library. Lovecraft, Blackwood, Machen and a whole bevy of others. If it is out of copyright you may be able to get a free copy or with reputable reprint bundlers like Wildside Press and Delphi Classics, and there are others But the problem for copyright reasons is for those that are old, somewhat forgotten, or remembered only by a small group . If they are still in copyright few publishers will dare to touch them.
Many of the books by classic authors of two hundred years aga, are no longer published or are printed by request. They may be digital but I like print books. These are often printed in volumes as they were printed at the time. You may be able to find some volumes but cant find some of the other of the books, making it hard to have the completed versions. Often these are thirty dollars a volume. A lot of Maria Edgeworth books are printed by request but book sites will not have all the volumes. Very frustrating. A person should be able to at least get these books digitally, at least.
![FendiDa Rappa - Clock Dat ft. Shamar Marco [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3NBU8KHdxYY/mqdefault.jpg)
You are right. With ebooks and print on demand so easy this is terribly annoying.
Also, you should definitely start your own publishing house!
It’s certainly an intriguing idea..
That is one reason why I have so many unread paperbacks. I bought books that I wanted to read, when they were available, because if I waited until I was ready to read them, they would be impossible to find.
It's even worse with comics/graphic novels cauae they already don't sell as much in the grand scheme of things
I've thought about this problem myself for a long time. Even a writer who has been relatively successful may have items that he would like to see reprinted or printed on demand but no publisher will touch because they just aren't likely to have much of an audience ten, twenty, thirty years later. The problem in my opinion is the reform of the Copyright laws in the United States. It used to be 28 years, renewable for 28 years and at the end of 56 years the book fell into the Public Domain. Now it's life plus 75 years. This was intended to benefit authors and their heirs. But now it's very difficult to figure out (1) who are the heirs that own the Copyrights after the death of the authors (especially 20 plus years later.)? (2) when did the author die ? (Unless the author is very famous that may be a puzzle in itself.) So in many cases you really cannot tell who holds the copyright, and when it actually falls into the Public Domain. I don't think as a publisher I would want to fund an investigation to determine when this forgotten author died, and which of his heirs acquired his copyrights.
One of the reasons I've thought of this was because I have been thinking of becoming a digital reprint publisher and concluded I would only try to reprint books of authors who were still alive and owned the copyrights to their previously published works. B list dead writers will have to wait until 75 years after their death for their books to fall into the Public Domain
to find a re-publisher. And by then their works may be completely forgotten along with their reputation as authors. There are always unexpected results from major changes in the laws, and this, I think, is one of them.
Its soooooooo annoying when books you want are out of print !!
DO IT OLLY …. A very interesting video and I’d love to
Find out how this would pan out ,however where do you even start ? Keep us updated .
For a lot of older books I wonder if the manuscript doesn't exist digitally. I remember reading something about the digitisation of the manuscript of The Lord of the Rings which made it seem like quite an arduous task.
I can't speak to the rest of the world but the reason lots of books aren't turned into ebooks comes down to a legal ruling in the US. In Random House v. Rosetta Books (2002) the Second Circuit ruled that Random House needed to renegotiate deals with its authors (or the estates) to publish their physical copy books in eBook format. It's never been challenged in any meaningful way because the court case would probably be ridiculously expensive.
Exactly. It's rather like looking for a ghost. See my comment above.
I'm writing a book. Scary stories. Science fiction. I hope a bit of humour. It's going well. Just created the "monster that is scary but makes people cry" one...successfully it seems.
OPEN QUESTION 🙋. I would like some suggestions for another creature/monster. Shamless fishing.
I always wondered the same, its really frustrating.
Halloween novelisation (1979)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre novelisation (2004)
The Nightmare On Elm Street parts 1,2,3 novelisation (1987)
I really want to read these books but they are so expensive.
Why is an ebook for these so difficult to publish?
I love out of print or hard to find issues but to answer your question there ( according to publishers ) there's no demand. I want Tales of A mangy Lover Groucho Marx.. only 40 to 60.
What a strange question. Books go out of print when there isn't enough demand to justify continuing to print them. There are probably literally 1000s of crime books in that category.
Hey! If you pursue publishing an out of print book let us know how it works and what the process is, etc. Thanks!
Back online. I bet there are a variety of reasons. Where rights reside is almost certainly one, in some cases. When a small publisher goes out of business, it's not always easy to unwrap where the rights reside and track that owner down for permissions. Also, copyright laws here have changed over time, and it may be complicated by what system applied when the book was published. Then we get into the mire of how each publishing house handled their ever-growing catalogs. Some probably kept up on their properties and did more printings based on demand, while others - especially in the pulpier markets - probably didn't even bother to count and just jammed out as many as they figured they could sell then moved on to new titles. THEN we add in new technologies, changing ownerships in businesses and writers and all parties involved, and entirely undreamed of options. Some contracts stipulate just print, some just print in individual cover, some broadcast rights ... if there are multiple parties with different sets of rights, they probably all need to be consulted or notified or something... and all of it equals money. And time. And experienced staff. The last 2 factors are really big limitations right now, I suspect. So many places shed so many employees, and publishing is changing so much that entire departments are no doubt in flux. Anyway. It's a quagmire, as one of my favorite characters in NYPD Blue once said.
I suspect that publishers sunset older books so readers are nudged towards buying and reading newer books.
Interesting - you could be right!
@@CriminOllyBlog Weird. I'm trying to comment, but I'm not getting the option. I can just respond to comments ...
That is weird!
Doubtful. Most books don't sell that well on their first printing, (I'm not talking about best sellers.) If they sell respectably a publisher might consider reprinting them provided he believes there is a market-- usually at least a decade or so later.
Beyond that there simply is rarely going to be a market for the work. Even historical or technical works which don't age as quickly (or have as much competition) as novels or other fiction, don't get reprinted very often.
a quick google says that A Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts is also in Shafts Of Fear ed. Dennis Wheatley (Arrow, 1964)
Thank you! I have ordered a copy!
I wouldn't say publishing is easy. I've looked into both Godless and Amazon's thing and they're both over my head. I was able to get one out with Lulu but it was rough and I don't think I did it right.
I've tracked down all Smith's crab books except Sacrifice. I have noticed this the past couple years. Books readily available, though a little pricey causing me to put them off, then the next thing I know they are out of print and the price sky rockets. As an example, Brian Evenson. There's a set of four whose covers make a single image. I started to get them and Last Days was the last I needed. It wasn't the most expensive just the one I wanted the least. When I was ready to get it, out of print. Now hundreds if you can find it. Very annoying. Similar thing happened with Grady Hendrix's Satan Loves You. Available, but more than I wanted to pay, put it off, and now nowhere to be found. Frustrating. You almost have to buy the books as they're released as you never know how long they will be available. Double annoying if you find out about them too late.
Yeah it’s doubly annoying when you pass up on something because it seems easy to get hold of and then suddenly it isn’t
Hunting for edgar wallace and fredric brown books has been a nightmare.
I can imagine!
I think it has to do with copyright. Even digital books cost money to the author.
I want to book Shogun by James Clavel, it is not available in the Netherlands. Even the Hobbit is not available as an epub
Wow, that is a shame
Some of the answer is rights, particularly for books that have a potential to sell if reissued. The other part of why older books are not available is that there are no digital files. This ties in to thinking that electronic products are "easier" to create. They are not. Digitizing a book ranges from scanning to rekeying the book. Both have their issues and both need to go through quality checks and proofreading. These are costs that have to be paid upfront, no matter how the book is published. Quite frankly, most books won't sell enough even to make those costs back. That is why you don't see more out of print titles go to digital release.
There are likely other reasons as well. My day job is as a production editor for an academic publisher and part of my responsibility was handling our reprints. Most of our physical printing would be described as short-run, to minimize storage and printing costs. Quite a few titles were reprinted electronically. Needless to say, the marketing people had alot of input.
That’s a good point about digitisation. I guess they are easier if you have a clean digital file to work from, but if you have to scan physical books I can see how it would be harder. I read a a JG Ballard ebook (from a big publisher) a few years back that was riddled with what were obviously OCR errors
It would be an interesting thing to do. I'd love to know how to do it myself as I have a number of (technical) books I would love to get the rights to and publish. I suppose it depends if the author assigned the copyright to the publisher or granted them an exclusive licence. And what happens when the author dies ? Does the copyright immediately stay with the publisher ? I have no idea but it seems like in practice it does. There should be a mandatory use it or lose it clause. Doing nothing will just make future sales worse if anything, as readers forget the book and author.
I like the idea of the use it or lose it clause!
Someone should look into rights to books, one would need an attorney to make sure that they get all of the rights but it's probably possible to buy rights and reprint books that publishing companies will not reprint, actually I'm not sure why critics don't do this more often...
It definitely seems like an interesting thing to look into
I find it's more difficult for me to find digital and audio versions of some new books, some like new Yrsa Sigurdardottir books don't have digital versions because she switched publishers.
And books like God Killer aren't getting digital and audio versions for about 6 months after they're physically published.
I think the digital publishing world is going to get very complicated soon, and things will only be available on certain platforms if at all.
Thoroughly support CriminOlly bringing back all the old goodies!
I would definitely be interested in a reprint of Spawn of Satan!
Noted!
A Lovely Bunch of Coconuts is in the forthcoming Ellen Datlow anthology “Fears”.
That would be so much fun Ollie for us to follow along on a journey to get a book republished. Surely some of your listeners would know how. I hope we get to do this.
I've thought about this recently regarding the science fiction writer Bob Shaw. His books are all out of print as physical editions but many are available as ebooks. However one of his key books Other Days, Other Eyes isn't available as an ebook, and its last reprint was in the 1970s. Consequently although many Shaw books can be found second-hand for low prices, copies of Other Days, Other Eyes go for huge amounts online. The Outlaw Bookseller did a video about Shaw a few months ago where he said he'd heard that the Shaw estate wanted more money for some reprint rights than the publisher was willing to pay.
Ah that’s interesting, I hadn’t considered that scenario of it just being down to a dispute
I love older books and I've been annoyed about the same thing. This was a great topic for discussion. I also think it's unendingly frustrating when publishers want to hold back or edit older books for the language used, it's part of the history of the time...that's my opinion on it anyway. Disney ruined one of my favourite movies for changing the language and pacing of an old Irish man (Darby O'Gill and the Little People)....I was devastated and it was entirely unnecessary. Anyway, that's my rant.
I recently managed to get my hands on the Bachman Books ( including Rage!) I found a pretty cheap copy I couldn't believe my luck.
Maybe one day I'll manage to get Rage on its own, although it's highly unlikely - and out of my budget 😢😢
I have that edition too - I need to give it a reread
@@CriminOllyBlog it is quite bad!😂
I've been trying to find Robert R McCammon books (physical). I find it almost impossible..unless I want to spend a pretty penny for them on ebay, and even on there I can hardly ever find them. So frustrating.
What I don't get is NO KINDLE version. I was looking for books on Feudalism today and some of them are $100 to $200 but no Kindle edition so I just gave up.
Bizarre... I just read Goldman's Magic over the weekend. What are the odds I'd go online and the first thing I'd find was someone mentioning it? :) And last week I read Girl of the Sea of Cortez by Peter Benchley, so... we're on a wavelength here.
Yep, a lot of things being out of print drives me nuts. Until a couple of years ago most of Shirley Jackson's stuff was out of print, which is madness to me. Library of America fixed that, but that it ever happened at all is crazy. And all of Karl Edward Wagner's stuff should be in print, too... one or two have snuck back into print recently, but ALL of his stuff should be out there. Clair Huffaker is a great writer and is also getting hard to find.
There's a relatively obscure Australian writer I'm crazy about, Kenneth Cook, and it's difficult to find almost any of his stuff. Wake In Fright came back out, luckily, but most of his books are super-rare.
The Charles Birkin books need to be brought back, for sure. Thanks to Valancourt for the ones that are back. They also brought back Michael McDowell, which is great. I love Valancourt.
Yep, Guy N. Smith is getting rare. Somebody needs to start looking at what's going for big money in the used book market and get those back in print, because if they're fetching big bucks for beat-up copies, there's obviously a big market for 'em. Whoever re-releases Eat Them Alive by Pierce Nace, or Cold Front by Barry Hammond, is going to make a truckload of cash. (And I'm wanting them in paper... I don't do digital at all).
Need to make Karl Edward Warner’s horror and Kane stuff back in print
Wagner
I do need to read those!
"[The Collected Pulp Horror] is not in print anymore, you can't get it." I sighed loudly when you said this. As the years go by, and more and more "pickers," many of whom can't even read the back of a cereal box, scavenge thrift shops for these books to hawk online, they're only going to get harder and more expensive to acquire. I see a digital black market, growing faster than the black mold in my bathtub, sprouting up, not necessarily to make money, but just to preserve them, no different than, say, religious orders smuggling out icons and relics in response to the iconoclasts and the hordes of zealots who want to expunge anything from the past that either hurts their feelings or "offends" them. But nothing will take the place of being able to hold a piece of history in your hands. In the end, though, it all turns to dust anyway. The Internet Archive is still an invaluable resource--though "they" are trying to destroy it. Great video. Subscribed.
Two reasons: the ebook publishing rights need to be negotiated, and a digital ebook needs to be created. Both are difficult (and impossible if the rights-holder says no) and time-consuming and probably not worth it financially for obscure novels.
Just bought 20000 leagues under de see, still in print :) even in Romanian.
Yeah Olly...trying to get all the Robert Bloch short stories in book or kindle format is nigh on impossible unless you're a millionaire lol...
This would be a very intriguing project to video document, perhaps crowd fund on something like Kickstarter. I suspect a common hurdle is likely to be actually determining who owns the rights on a certain author’s works, a real legal mystery especially with niche genres by now obscure authors. 🧐
Exactly. Suppose the author dies childless ? Or the author had heirs but his heirs passed away without clearly leaving heirs or had many heirs themselves. A legal mess ?
The craziest example I can think of is Robin Hobb. She’s an extremely popular fantasy author. Before publishing epic fantasy under this name, she published a number of other fantasy books under the name Megan Lindholm. Those are all out of print and go for crazy prices on the used book market. Yet her publisher seems to have absolutely no interest in reprinting her earlier work, even though it’s obvious that a sizable portion of her fans would gobble them up.
It’s easy to say that the people in the industry know their market and that it just wouldn’t be profitable. But there are so many times when the knowledgeable industry people have been proven wrong. I simply don’t know whether obtaining the digital rights to middle aged books would be a decent business. Even Library of America has taken to doing selections, rather than being more completist.
An interesting statistic on this (which I got from Nassim Taleb) is that, if a book has been in print for X years, there is a 50% chance that it will be in print in another X years.
I didn't know that about Hobb! That really is crazy. And I love (or rather hate, but you know what I mean) that stat
Unless the earlier books had an unusual contact I would think that Hobb would hold the ebook rights still and I wonder why she wouldn't publish them as ebooks herself.
Is it possible she has some kind of noncompete in her contact for her more recent books that would prevent her releasing them? Or perhaps she doesn't like them and wouldn't publish them as ebooks because of that???
@@BookChats She maintains a website under her old name (neither is her real name though Megan Lindholm is close). Thus, I doubt that she truly dislikes her earlier work. She decided to publish her Elderling and Soldier’s Son books using the Hobb name to demarcate the Epic Fantasy work from the Urban Fantasy work. I have no idea what her contracts say, but it seems likely the explanation lies there.
It is one of the greatest tragedies of our era that we are letting works fade into the void, when we have the means to publish and distribute them with digital and print on demand.
Libraries are one of the last bastions, that we have to protect with vigor from the greedy hands of our era.
amazes me that people write new books when time has given us enough books to last all our lifetimes.
In 2018, a small publisher had annouced to publish The Amityville Horror for the first time in Germany, as a hardcover exclusively, as the right holders wouldn't give a license for an e-book edition. Unfortunately, that publisher has ceased operations before it actually came out and although another independent publisher showed interest in it, they put their efforts "on hold". And I have a strong suspicion (without any proof, not even a hint), that is because they won't get it as an e-book.
I recently bought a book (physical copy) I was casually looking for since 1985 (at that point in time, it was oop for probably around 10-15 years). The problem was to find it for a reasonable price in decent condition. Recently, it was re-published in a revised version (pc language) as e-book (5,99€) and print on demand hardcover & paperback by another independent publisher. I almost feel a bit guilty for not supporting their efforts but the copy of the old paperback edition I found at an online used book shop was in such an unbelievable good condition and as I ordered some other books there it kind of minimized the shipping costs per item. I paid less than 15,50€ in total for 10 books. Not gonna lie, if I can get a bargain I'll take it.
That does sound like a bargain! Glad you managed to track it down.
I dealt with one SF writer who could not get his rights back from Bantam. They didn't want to do e-books, but they apparently didn't want him to go elsewhere either. I'm sure he could lawyer that out but I note his books are still not available a decade later. Also a delusional agent who over-valued his late client's novel right out of the market. Some old-school authors told me they flat-out hated the concept of e-books so: no. Sometimes the novel rights are tied up with a movie studio and then they're really difficult to unravel. I'm surprised about the Benchley titles -- that feels like maybe a fight between his widow and the publisher(s). And I feel I've heard somewhere that the Crabs books are just moving to a different publisher and will be re-launched at some point (I've heard that about some Ramsey Campbell titles too). It's quite a puzzle box for some titles, that's for sure. Good luck!
I do hope the Smith books get republished soon, it feels like there’s a bit of interest in him at the moment so feels like the right time for a relaunch!
Over my years of being the book business... You mentioned it... That some titles are not yet in the public domain. I'll use Robert Heinlein for an example... But after his death, his estate held the rights, not the publisher. And some authors estate hold out for the most money from the publishers. You're right.. it's very annoying, but that's why I do what I do. I am always on the look for vintage paperbacks in thrift stores or yard and garage sales. When I want a certain book.. I go on a mission 😂
That seems doubly frustrating. And just kind of dumb too. Annoying that readers have to suffer because people are being greedy
I suspect the Valancourt boys would love to get that Birkin book if they knew about it (and I presume they do), but I know they've also said quite a few of the books people suggest they republish are rights nightmares.
I can recommend those two Birkin volumes from Valancourt, as they each have some quite disturbing stories. I wonder if writing to Valancourt and expressing interest in further Birkin reprints would help. I think I'll do that.
I’ll definitely check them out. And a couple of people have pointed out that Coconuts is available in an old Wheatley edited collection which is much easier to get hold of. I’ve ordered a copy.
@@CriminOllyBlog That's good news. I looked for that Wheatley collection, and it seems interesting. Most of the stories in it I have not read. I may have to pick up a copy. I did get a reply from Valancourt saying that they may release more Birkin collections in the future, but they have no current plans.
@@Robbo_C ah that’s interesting! Maybe I should review the two they’ve done already on the channel and try to drive up sales!
I’ll let you know what the Wheatley collection is like
@@CriminOllyBlog That would be great. I would love to hear your take on Birkin.
totally agree i wonder if it could be to do with contracts? writers get "reversion rights" if certain amounts aren't published over a certain time etc but can't imagine that it would affect big time writers like Ed McBain. Less popular writers have books that unfortunately just die.
🏴☠
lol
It is a shame that things go OOP but in the internet age it is much easier to find a copy of almost anything but in some cases you will pay through the nose. I remember as a kid in the 90’s before the internet I had to pay someone a finders fee to locate a few OPP books I wanted and then I believe she had them mailed to me. Now all I have to do is get on eBay and you can find a copy in almost any condition from acceptable to new.
Wow, I hadn’t even thought about the trouble of finding them before eBay and so on!
Books generally go out of print for 3 main reasons. They stop selling so it's a financial decision. Sometimes they are taken out if print to build up demand so they can release new copies and sometimes the copywrite goes back to the author or their estates.
I do wonder how few copies they need to sell to make it unprofitable to leave a kindle version available
@@CriminOllyBlog I would imagine it depends on how much it costs to buy or retain the copywriting and the % the author or estate wants?
@@CriminOllyBlog Even if it were profitable to do, in many cases it might be difficult to determine who has the copyright without a lot of effort.
@@idioz75 Sure, but what if you don't know who owns the rights. Many B list writers die who knows where, and leave their copyrights to who knows whom.
We hope you're doing well. We will support you no matter what happens.
Hi Olly!! I've noticed there's a renewed interest in older books, music, movies, etc... It seems one of the reasons for that is today's pop culture has been dumbed down while the quality of art in all its forms has gone down quite a bit and people are looking for substance. And I agree trying to find a good book that's been out of print is annoying.
You might well be right as to that being the cause! So many things feel like they were written by a committee today
Sounds like a good business for you to start. You are knowledgeable on what you want to reprint. I think you should really go for it.
Thank you!
I think some books are out of print as you said due to issues with the estate after the author passed away. I also think it comes down to the author not being a house hold name anymore and that a lot of people feel their material may be “out dated” or not as scary, horrific etc as something published today would be. It would be interesting to see what it would take to get the copy write to be able to self publish those books or turn them into e books. Sad thing is, is that publishers seem to forget that there are people out there who fondly remember those writers that are out of print and would buy copies to reread and possibly share them with friends and family.
Yeah I do think that publishers think that readers are there to serve them, rather than it being a two way relationship
In some cases, like TwoMorrows publishing, who have published my articles in BACK ISSUE, the publisher is a small operation and their books and some of their magazines go out of print after a couple of years, some of their more recent publications have been put in PDF format, but others are still unavailable. I've had to search like mad for books, comics and magazines from various publishers when they go out of print. It's irritating, especially when I need to do research and have a tight deadline.
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A few books you’ve mentioned previously that I searched for, I ended up finding despite them being out of print. They are on open library through the Internet archive.
Just took a look and The Second Suspect by Heather Lewis is there and I was able to find previously Dearest by Peter Loughran among others.
There have been some I can’t find anywhere and am unable/unwilling to spend a lot of money for them. So I would be very interested to see how it goes if you make an attempt to get the rights!
The major problem is unfortunately electronic reproduction of older works . It is easy to forget that the electronic world is still relatively new . The contracts for many of the older works would not have contained rights for non physical media as it did not exist. There is simply not the market for a renegotiation of rights, that as you say maybe held by multiple parties, and lawyers do not come cheap It is also why books adapted to movies tend to remain in print as the rights usually have undergone extremely complex negotiations , dealing with multi media reproduction . It is one of the issues that have arisen from the move on line that will eventually rectify itself. All new publishing contracts will have clauses for multi media reproduction and the older contracts will fall into public domain .We just happened unfortunately to fall into the contractual hinterland .
Agreed, I wouldn't expect a name that big to be out of print.
I have wondered that same thing for years especially when you see the money the old copies sell for. I hope you are able to gain the rights and publish. That would be fantastic.
America’s copyright system is a mess because of Disney repeatedly lobbying for extensions. I wonder if switching to a profit-based copyright system would help. If (past a sensible time period like 20 years) you don’t earn something like $1000 per year, it just gets tossed into the public domain. We shouldn’t have companies just sitting on all these books without even earning anything off them.
If I was an author, I’d want my work to be read rather than the only access for it being the overly expensive collectors market.
@@waverlyking6045 Of course, but most published authors lack the resources to self publish (and perhaps the knowledge as well) so very little is going to get done unless a Commercial Publisher is interested,
@@frankmorlock9134 One thing I do know is that landing a deal with one of the big publishers is extremely difficult. And even getting a deal is no guarantee that you will stay with them forever nor is it a guarantee that your work will enjoy longevity. Right now, our culture is losing a lot of great books, movies, and music.
@@waverlyking6045 No doubt about that. But it's a lot better situation than it was thirty years ago before the Internet, Project Gutenberg, The Internet Text Archive,. and other sites that have made lots of books available that were almost impossible to find in any library. Lovecraft, Blackwood, Machen and a whole bevy of others. If it is out of copyright you may be able to get a free copy or with reputable reprint bundlers like Wildside Press and Delphi Classics, and there are others But the problem for copyright reasons is for those that are old, somewhat forgotten, or remembered only by a small group . If they are still in copyright few publishers will dare to touch them.
Many of the books by classic authors of two hundred years aga, are no longer published or are printed by request. They may be digital but I like print books. These are often printed in volumes as they were printed at the time. You may be able to find some volumes but cant find some of the other of the books, making it hard to have the completed versions. Often these are thirty dollars a volume. A lot of Maria Edgeworth books are printed by request but book sites will not have all the volumes. Very frustrating. A person should be able to at least get these books digitally, at least.