BLIND Tasting vs. JANCIS Robinson - The Clash of the Masters of Wine?
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- Опубликовано: 2 сен 2023
- Riesling Revelations: Journey through 8 Unique Wines in a Tasting Tour
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Wine Key Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Gabriel StandART
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2020 Weingut Donnhoff 'Felsenturmchen' Schlossbockelheimer Felsenberg Riesling Grosses Gewächs, Nahe, Germany
www.wine-searcher.com/find/do...
2010 Weingut Prager Stockkultur Achleiten Gruner Veltliner Smaragd, Wachau, Austria
www.wine-searcher.com/find/pr...
2020 Anatolikos Vineyards Fine Mavroudi Wild Fermentation Thrace, Greece
www.wine-searcher.com/find/an...
2018 Blank Canvas Wines 'Element' Syrah Gimblett Gravels, New Zealand
www.wine-searcher.com/find/bl...
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
It is difficult to list all of Jancis Robinson achievements because there are so many of them. The most important ones are that she founded her website JancisRobinson.com in 2000, which she sold in 2021.
She has written or co-authored several of the most widely read wine books like the Oxford Companion to Wine, The World Atlas of Wine and Wine Grapes.
Her books are extremely insightful, and I use them very frequently - especially the Oxford Companion, which is also available through her website. In 1984 she was the first non-wine trade person to become a Master of Wine and she has received many awards, including the OBE from Queen Elisabeth for her work. She describes herself as a wine writer and not a wine critic and she appears to have a love/hate relationship with scores in general.
On her website, she writes: Although we are not very comfortable with scoring wines because it is so difficult to encapsulate a wine's qualities in a single score, we do realize how useful scores are for those reading and buying (and selling) in a hurry.
I don’t use Jancis Robinson ratings much for a few reasons. First of all, she scores in the 20-point system which is becoming less and less relevant and I find it hard to convert her scores into a 100-point system score.
They actually have a document up on her website that is supposed to help with the conversion but I still find it difficult.
The descriptions she and her team use to explain the scores are not making it much easier- at least for me :
20 - Truly exceptional
19 - A humdinger
18 - A cut above superior
17 - Superior
16 - Distinguished
15 - Average, a perfectly nice drink with no faults but not much excitement
14 - Deadly dull
13 - Borderline faulty or unbalanced
12 - Faulty or unbalanced
It is funny that everything below 15 is deadly dull or faulty, and the scale therefore only really starts at 15. On top of that, I don’t really know the difference between distinguished, superior, and a cut above superior.
Humdinger is a word that I have never used but I think I know roughly what it means - even though I have never heard anyone describe a wine as a Humdinger. I think that a more detailed explanation of the meaning of the scores would be useful to others as well.
What is also worth mentioning is that the 20-point scale is not universally applied by the JR Team. Jancis writes: When reviewing, for example, New Zealand Pinot Noirs, we score the wines in the context of New World Pinot Noir rather than on the same scale as we would mark red burgundies. So with a score of 18.5, a 2003 Quartz Reef Pinot Noir is not equal to a 2003 DRC and never will be!
Mavroudi (mavrud in Bulgaria) was a great twist and an overlooked variety, kudos to the person who thought of putting it in the lineup
+++ have had so many great Mavruds by this point!
As I'm bulgarian,I've had some good Mavruds.
Just visited Sofia, first time in Bulgaria, I love Mavrud now! shame it's so difficult to get bulgarian Mavrud from different producers here in the UK form what I've seen
Great video, I'm still amazed that you can correctly identify grape and region on most of the wines you taste. You are truly a master of wine.
Damn the thumbnail got me there. I was wow she actually came to the cellar.
Really good episode and straight, to the point critique of the JR rating system. Your content is among the best and most interesting on youtube and really helpful to wine consumers.
Another fun and informative video. I find myself rewatching many of your videos in order to fully glean and remember the data and interpretations that you share. Thanks, again. Great channel!
Great episode, Konstantin!
Super content - thank you! Most enjoyable and great skill from you
Excellent video, Konstantin. I learned a lot about Jancis’ rating system and your lifelong learning and tasting is truly amazing and inspiring.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you, this was educational and enjoyable. Salute to you sir.
Yet another brilliant video Konstantin, absolutely loved it... And any mention of the fabulous Jancis Robinson is wonderful.. Cheers 🍷
Many thanks!
Great video Konstantin
It’s always fun to watch CB have a good time.
As always Konstantin, you kept it real and I appreciate that. This was an interesting video but I think I will stick to the 100 point scale.
Such good video! Loved this one really much =)
Thank you very much
amazing tasting, really well done
Hi Konstantin! I have been a Jancis Robinson fan for the longest time and have a few of her books but only recently joined her Purple Pages. I agree that the 20 point scale is confusing especially when they now add + and ++ etc to carve up the small range even more. I nearly had a few identified based on your descriptions. I think I did learn a lot too from this tasting. However, if I wanted to convert scores on the fly, I would have been an accountant! Cheers!
Thank you for introducing these wines! And the question you asked- I never use this 20 pts scale.
Excellent tasting. Thanks KB. I met Jancis R some years ago at a Decanter tasting in Marylebone London (they were good value once) - but said nothing about the 20 point system when we spoke. I would now though - 100 points makes way more sense.
Thank you for this exciting video! The “philosophy” of rating scales is an ongoing intriguing topic and while you have commented repeatedly on your own outlook, as an amateur wine drinker one certainly tries to get more reflective on evaluation methods etc.. When you presented JR’s 20 points system, I could not help but thinking that a more Gault&Millau style 20 point approach might be a more enlightening reference. There, pretty much 12.5points is where one can start having a gourmet dining experience reaching up to 19.5points. What most wine lovers seem to be interested in are the quality nuances among wines with “personality”. If “good” were to start already at a lower number score, this would allow for a more detailed way up to the top. This in my opinion is also a problem with the 100 point scale. Whenever a white Burgundy only gets 89 points, one most of the time finds oneself overpaying, but a 94 point white Burgundy is pretty much exceeding most peoples’ budgets. As a result, one ends up with only three different affordable (to the middle class consumer) quality categories. Sorry for the lengthy post.
Best wine videos on youtube!
Hi Konstantin! Thanks for all your videos, I'm currently preparing for my next wset exam and I find them very helpful to absorb all these theory knowledge😊 could you make a video on what's steps would you take as wine newbie who wants to start in wine industry without master title? I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Once again, great work! All the best.
Recently opened a bottle of Felsenberg 2016, and it was a truly exceptional! Yesterday purchased spatlese from this particular vineyard. Can’t wait to open this bottle💛
I did think about using the 20 point system previously, as I had issues with the sometimes overly commercialized usage of the 100 point rating system. However, now it just seems to make more sense, be more logical and easier to understand and communicate. I was pretty sure that the wine was a Hawke's Bay Syrah, as it didn't seem to fit either South Africa or Chile. I have heard that both of those countries can produce medium bodied, balanced & savory Syrah; but I haven't found any yet.
That Mavroudi/Mavrud wine was a total surprise, I've never heard of that cultivar before; so learning something new is always great. I think that once again this video shows that wine tasting and judging is both objective & subjective based on an individual perspective & experiences. Many people can drink the same wine and find similar things in it, but no two people can drink the same wine and have the exact same opinion about flavour, taste & quality. Great video and cheers!
Janis Robinson?? Wow, you really are in the big leagues! I'm sitting here at my coffee table playing my six string looking at The World Atlas of Wine she co-wrote with Hugh Johnson....HUGE RESPECT!!!!
I prefer to just get an impression from what the wine connoisseur is saying, than to be bothered with scores, just using them as a comparative guideline. Jancis Robinson is great! Nice one Konstantin. ⭐⭐👍
Glad you did this "competition". I have two books from JR and I consider her a true inspiration.
I find her scores more easy to interpret than the 100 scores system where I can't tell how you can decide how to give a 91 or 92 or 93 points, what's the difference. But I admit it would be easier if there was just one score system instead of 2
So sorry you needed to use humdinger. Love your content, sir.
Humdinger is how I'd expect Jed Clampett to rate moonshine.
😂
Another excellent video Konstantin.
I learnt many years ago using the 20 point system, I think it's an English thing?? But whether you use 20 point or 100 point, it doesn't really matter. This video case in point. In general you were close to her scores, but not identical. And no matter who you are, your score will (and should be) just that, your score!.
As my old Sommelier boss told me when I was about 19, no one else thinks exactly like you do. Just because a wine costs $100, doesn't mean you should ignore it's imperfections. We use to have a tasting session for new wines on the wine list, everybody was encourage to score as they felt.
I like Jancis’s ratings because they seem to speak to class, and not just concentration/density/power, etc. I also like her descriptions for the same reasons-sometimes they’re a little writerly and metaphorical, but isn’t that where great wine takes you? I’d also say that, even though her 20 pt scale is tighter than the 100 pt scale that others use, I often find more breathing room-her 15 is probably a 90 from Suckling.
What is electric in her notes?
Konstantin, amazing video, maybe one of my favorites you’ve ever done. I’ve really learned a lot from your videos to expand my palate and to try wine from other regions that are off the beaten path, Greece included.
I noticed in your video last week that you included a Riesling from the Finger Lakes in upstate NY, which, even here in the US, is criminally underrated. Another one to suggest to the future is, surprisingly, Virginia. I had the pleasure of going down there a few weeks back and their terroirs make for some amazing wines, shockingly. I’m curious if you’ve ever tried any wines from Virginia or if you’d be open to including some in your future videos?
Cheers from Boston and thank you for all of the content as always!
I am open to it and I have tasted some!
Definitely going to buy the GG riesling on monday, there's a few bottles left on the shelves here in town.
I would LOVE to see Konstantin together in a video with Peter Koff! So sad we dont see him anymore on RUclips.
That was a humdinger of a review!
Another humdinger of a video! Really nice to see an NZ red that isn’t a Pinot for a change.
Excellent video KB!
Looked up the two whites and for that very low price, they are a god damn steal!
Nice nail of the Syrah/Shiraz from NZ/Chile btw.
Thank you - yes, they are quite affordable.
Tolle und verständliche Darstellung der Wertungssysteme. Ich bevorzuge die 100 Punkte Skala, mehr Differenzierung, gerade bei ähnlichen Weinen/Terroirs etc.
Danke für deine Videos, sehr hilfreich, gute Länge, nachvollziehbar. Stay thirsty 😄
10 September. Enjoyed your tasting and commentary very much. A few comments; by having the 20 point scale including ‘Humdinger’ Jancis wants to be different to other tasters. If you like it, you buy into her world, a bit like Apple vs Microsoft. Personal choice. Secondly it would be fun to see if a novice taster would be able to spot the quality wines. They wouldn’t be able to describe them, but could they spot them? Finally you commented that the GG Reisling and the Gruner Veltniner were fantastic. Normally, when beginners start their wine journey, they start with cheaper wines and move up. However, if possible, and noting that these wines are very expensive, to have exposure to these wines could literally be life changing! Keep up the good work!
Another great video, thanks. Yes I do use Jancis Robinson and find that my personal preference tends to match her ratings.
Thanks for sharing!
When I see her ratings, I do pay attention, especially above 17.5 points. WE RARELY see her ratings published on shelf talkers because, like you said, the 20 point scale doesn't translate well to the US consumer.
I grew up reading her her books too. I still reference them when I have questions.
Cool story about Gimlett Gravels. I took a wine trip to New Zealand. One of our stops was at Trinity Hills, run by John Hancock, who is one of the most important wine growers in the area. We walked his "Hommage Vineyard" which contained root and vine cuttings from Chapoutier "Ermitage". Exceptional wine! I will never forget that experience.
Great episode! That seems more like a 5-point system in practice. Which is very restricting. And I also don’t agree with the rating based on “type”. Very hard to interpret. I would love to see you have a session dedicated to Greek wines!
I was very curious about the grüner veltliner! It’s very difficult to get this grape here in Brazil , specially a high end wine ! Cheers !
Thanks again!
Thank You!
One of your best (but all are good). I read Jancis’ weekly column in the Financial Times (don’t be fooled by the name, it’s a great general newspaper) where she’s eloquent and informative on wine trends and also on interesting individuals in the wine world but I’ve never used a score of hers. I also regularly use her brilliant grape book which thankfully is devoid of scores.
Still lacling Decanter and Falstaff!:-) Keep on good work!👍👍👍
Great episode. Maybe we could assume that the 20 points for Dönnhoff is in the context of (too) young GGs? So somehow taking the potential into account.
Great video . Indeed quite confusing scoring method
I need to try this GV from Wachau with some cod and potatoes... Its my type of friday night delight!
Another great video, thank you for that! I enjoyed the fact you tried Mavroudi, not a common variety even amongst Greek consumers!
By the way, is there a way to download your skills like Neo was learning jiujitsu in the Matrix? 😅
Not yet!
Great video once more. Would be amazing if you'd taste and rate a good Swiss wine at some point.
Hey, can you do a review of Okanagan Wines from BC CAN?
I like your rating of the GV from Austria. I would very much like to see you to do more on Austria GV, Riesling, Sauvignon Blanc,....
It's nice when you find the meaning of a word in practice..."spotting the humdinger" could be a regular gimmick in your tasting. It reminded me of the ending in "Don't Look Now".
Just when I opened a 2016 Hinter der Burg Gruner ! Those Bodenstein stock culture are just amazing wines 😱😱😱
Great tasting! Thanks for introducing these wines… perhaps embarassing.. never heard about the Jancis scoring.. 😊
I'm happy to see scoring a Prager wine that high. I love the Wachau region, and Prager is one of the best there. Not as "fat" as Knoll or F.X. Pichler (although I also love this style). Prager's wines always seem to be extremely focussed and precise to me. I do love them.
I gave this 2019 Mavroudi a 90 point score as well. My old score on Vivino says: 2019 vintage is a bit too alcoholic on the nose nose, initially.
It needs a few hours to open up and show good concentration of aromas and flavours.
Probably too young though.
Looking forward to Tasting vs Allen Meadows
I agree with MW Jancis R. on the rating discussion. The 0 to 100 point system can't be used professionally across all regions. Some grapes are originally from a region... anyway, in return I like it because it points out also other cool regions.
I joined her site because she has always seemed to have so much integrity and show a love for wine as a drink to enjoy and not a business/industry. There are also great learning resources. Her scoring system, however, has always been confusing to me. Sometimes the descriptions are more helpful, especially in how they give you a feel for the wine - attempting to capture the experience rather than description. Almost like poetry versus prose.
One question: Can you recommend a wine fridge for at least 70-100 bottles? I don't know which brand is the best in this section. Thank you in advance!
Thoroughly enjoyable to see how a precise (and amazing good blind taster) German copes with the reluctant Brit scoring system of Jancis Robinson... he expresses bafflement and scepticism and yet his tastes are very closely aligned, and if he had remembered that she views Riesling as the prince of grapes he would have been exactly aligned with her scoring - he picked up the age on the Prager and the 20 score for the Riesling was for the wine it would be in 10 years time I think, which he could taste. I think the main point she is making Konstantin is that you can't pretend to use the same scoring scale for a NZ Pinot v Burgundy - it's not disrespect, anymore than I prefer dark blend coffee to lighter more aromatic blends, and would always give the former better scores - preference on that is very much personal taste, but within a given category she's trying to give a ranking. Overall a great video!
Loved this review. I’m a fan of Jancis Robinson. What stemware are you using? Like it very much!
Thanks! Gabriel Glass StandArt
Nice video as usual... If I may suggest that all tastings to be done in standard bottle shapes to eliminate some of the psychological effect, and reveal the actual ones at the end of the videos 😉🥂🍷🍾
Leon would love that… would make this process a whole lot more difficult 😉
That last red was a real twist! I have to try. I think she rated the younger wine better because of its ageing possibility?
So after watching all the Konastanin Baum versus wine critic shows -I'd say he rates closest to Jancis Robinson. Hard marker that Konstantin!
The 20 point scale from le rouge et le blanc is better (with notation starting at 12) is better. Great video
I bought both the Oxford Companion and the World Atlas a few years ago, under your suggestion.
While I haven't been using the first one much, the latter has been amazing from top to bottom. Absolutely remarkable.
This said, I feel just as confused as you about her rating, and her commentaries haven't helped me much either (you can read some on "Superiore" along other critics' descriptions).
I find she also tends to rate Rieslings quite high, whereas she's very careful handing out more than 17.5, even to top bottles from all around the world..
All I know is I can't wait for your video, next week😂
Maybe we'll see one all-Spätlese or all-Grüner Veltliner flight, someday?
Just tossing it out there😂
Thank you 🙏
Good job mr Baum. Jancis Robinson is familiar with Eastern Europe wines. This is actually a balkan wine variety. Mostly planted in south Bulgaria (Thracian valley), but also in Thracian valley in Greece. Because of the artificial political borders on Balkans it’s little confusing, because these borders doesn’t match the cultural and agricultural borders which have thousands years of tradition including wine traditions. The name of the variety is Mavrud and is considered one of the top Bulgarian red.
Cool show.
Glad you enjoyed it
This was so fun! Sometimes I find JR a little dismissive of Aus/NZ wines. I like that you speak highly of these new world regions, I think they have more to offer than the Francophile wine writers are willing to admit.
I agree with you Her system is confusing . Having met her once at BBR in London where she signed her Wine Grapes . She is also a master at not directly answering questions so maybe that explains her confusing system.
end of day all the buying public wants is an up or down and this scale is good enough... humdingers aside. love your work. sad i cant get the greek wine in usa
Great video as always, thank you Konstantin! The advantage of 20 points scale is clearer distinction between the numbers. Here you can try to guess point by point, when comparing with critics using 100 points scale you have to make it every 5 points as every point would be impossible. BTW. Crystal 2008 which you gave 100 points got 19.5 from Jancis ;)
I agree, I prefer 20 point scale especially when it's employed by somebody that is fair and impartial (e.g. not giving every other wine 19+/20). The 100 point scale is so annoying because pretty much 90% of wine that is produced with some degree of care is in the 90-100 range it makes it so difficult to actually understand what the review means. If Jancis gives 16/20 I know its a very good wine, in the 100 point scale that would equal 80/100 - which would a disgustingly average wine.
I just wish critics would utilize their scales appropriately, instead of trying to please every producer.
I find JR description note is more relatable compare to other critics/writers with fancy descriptors or a list of aroma and taste documentation. Hers is more on the experience and emotion when drinking the wine.
I would pay attention when it is 17 and above (18+ is not common at accessible price point). Unfortunately, many are 16.5, so i just hope the tasting note would pique my interest.
One thing to note is that there is flexibility here. Jancis often uses + or ++ on top of the score if there is surely a swing, so if a score is not 17 but too good for 17.5 it'll be rewarded 17+ or 17++
Really do enjoy your videos. Give Israeli wine a go. Castel Grand Vin would be a good example
I've always found it difficult to understand what the difference is between 90 and 91 , 91 and 92 etc., so as a dabbler I usually preferred the 20-point system.
Hi Konstantin 👋 Love your channel and the content you do, keep up the fantastic work 🥳 I would love to see an episode similar to this one but with wines recommended by the viewers. Take an 85, 90…. Point rated wine and see you if you would rate them the same.
And all of the wine sounds good and the white wines sound great.
That's a nice little mini series that helps us calibrate your taste in relation to other public figures of the wine world. Keep it up!
As for your question of the day: I myself don't rate by means of a scalar, and don't give too much weight to others' numerical ratings, although I'm not oblivious to them either. As for Jancis in particular, I find her preferences biased towards leaner, fresher wines, often with a pronounced minerality as opposed to fruitiness, so much so that I feel equally good but more on the powerful side wines tend to receive lesser scores. Thus I'm not at all surprised a Riesling for her prevails over a GV even though Prager's style is comparatively moderate and preserves a good freshness where other Wachau producers may tend towards more opulence.
As I fancy a quite diverse taste, Jancis' scores may be of a little less use to me as some others. Also as you mentioned her scores often are quite cramped into a small range.
There's still too little data, but if you, Konstantin, continue like this, your reviews might be among those with highest value for me.
Jancis…alone with konstantin in his cellar ?!?😮😮😮 🎉
I think there are tastes for each critics(whether there are many persons who rate the wine in WA(RP) etc.) and in a high probabilty, wines that are highly rated by JR were in my taste too. So I prefer to check her points and it is quite intuitive. If a wine gives me curiosity with a fair price and is near or over 17 points I definitely try the wine. As in your video you might understand what it means. :)
And for an addition I have a strong faith in KB(Konstantin Baum) points too!
I think it would be interesting to list up the wines rated and it would be useful for wine lovers buy.
Well i got a Humdinger in my celler. Woulden have gussed that 😁
I completely understood humdinger.
for me, JR 16 or plus are generally very good already
I recently considered toying with a 20-pt system because I believe scores aren't meaningful enough to be assessed with such a high resolution (in short, I doubt we can confidently judge a wine with 1/50th accuracy). However, reading Jancis Robinson's tags for HER 20-point system, I think it's far too personal to hold much meaning to others, let alone the fact that only one quarter of the spectrum is used for drinkable wines, which are (thankfully) the norm out there. How about a 20-pt system that is just a rescaling of the more familiar 100-pt scores? That way we reduce resolution by a factor of 5 (10pts from 10 to 20 for drinkable wines, 50pts from 50 to 100, a factor of x5).
Question, what does grippy or grippiness mean? Maybe you already explained this in another video. I’ve watched many of your excellent productions so I apologize for asking.
I see grip or grippy as tannins that are robust, but not tough or hard. They 'grip' the tongue and sides of the mouth and give more than just a bit of puckering and have a nice drying effect, which makes you salivate and want to go back for more! Grippy tannins are usually found on balanced, youthful (but not young) wines.
Do Jeff Leve next 👌
After tasting some of the top 5 chateau in Bordeaux, every time I read some expert say wonders about those wine I take it with a grain of salt. The amount of brett I got in some of those wines was out the scale... aweful
Hearing a German say “this is a humdinger “ is hilarious 😂
The greek wine is already very expensive for what it is actually ! ( not interesting to me at least )
The german and austrian whites are quite great and also the price/taste relation seems quite a good one here !
I usually use scores for wines from Region I don't know well... Although I admire Jancis Robinson as a MW and writer I find her score system quite difficult to use....
Can you explain the term "grip"?
Wine will always be subjective, so pick a wine critic that you trust, but at the end of the day, trust more your own palate.
PS: the wine critic I trust must is Konstantin kkkk
Thank you 🙏
Konstantin, I was actually a bit dissapointed in your video - felt to me like a “takedown” of Jancis, with much criticism directed at the 20-point scale. For example, you mentioned that she has a cutoff at 13 or 14 - but the cutoff is also true of a 100 point scale. And I found that you were obsessively coming back to these quirky descriptors of 17/18/19/20. They are, well, quirky in a very English way, and I’m pretty sure nobody takes them
literally because they’re definitely not meant that way. In any case the scores also includes halves and pluses/minuses, as you know. And it’s not like the 100-pointers have a sophisticated/more
precise way of explainignthe differency between, say, 87 and 89. I think the reason Jancis is so popular and influential is precisely her sense of distance/humor about all this, and the fact that she resisted the score inflation.
I’ve been using her notes for many years and didn’t actually know they were relative to a local context, as opposed to absolute. Not sure it changes my buying decisions. What’s more important is trusting the critic’s taste - the same way I trust yours and ordered Tyrrell’s semillion just to try out. Cheers and keep up the good work!
Have you ever tasted Israeli wine's?
Would love to see a video bout that
Here's some you should try,
Katzrin CS 2013
Misty Hills 2014
Grand Vin 2012
Flam Nobel 2011/12
Yatir Forest 2012
Number 4 is a screw cap 😅
If the scale say 18.5, actually is 40 points scale.
Age adds points (as in Chateau Latour), yes? Young Latour never shows the end result! How do you rate a young Latour the same as the same at 25 years? Maybe 2 scales and scores:1 for no flaws; 1 for character and evolution?🙏. Thank you so much.