I agree that old DBD was even more unbalanced and unfair, but MMR just makes the games sweaty and push people into ultra competitive playstyles that are just not fun. Eveyone only cares about winning because of the existence of matchmaking. Sure without mmr you might get complete noobs but the exact same is happening right now. I still get complete noobs after 600+ hours, and other times i get eSports sweat lords that basically play the game religiously. So i still advocate for the removal of MMR, it will at least encourage players to care less about winning and bring in more fun/niche builds on both sides
Dude how tf does mmr encourage people to play sweaty? It just pits sweaty people against eachother. You can’t see mmr, you get no bp or cosmetics for being high mmr, if anything it just makes your opponents sweatier, discouraging it.
I can see your point, but MMR has nothing to show for winning. You can lose all of your games, and will miss on no achievement, reward or number to show off to your chat or friends - people sweat (imho) because the game is quite popular now and there are a lot of tools that teach how to play better/optimally/more competitively and most people simply like winning. I can totally see why MMR seems crushing to you, because I had the same experience around the same number of hours - I must have reached high mmr or something because I got paired with the same people that I get paired with now, with the difference that now I am equipped to deal with them at the time I absolutely wasn't and playing killer was a quite anxious moment to me. BHVR should really do better for intermediate players, with that I absolutely agree
@@gigawattzgamereviews2094I dunno, but maybe it's just matchmaking not working properly? I mean it would make sense if I get less experienced survivors if I lose constantly but that doesn't always happen
i love that depipping is no longer a thing , cause this was basically the only reason i sometimes had to sweat as killer. As for the matchmaking, i think my mmr is somewhere around mid, i don't like it when i get matched against babies cause it doesn't feel amazing, honestly it is boring cause it is to easy. Also i feel sorry for them. I only watched someone play old dbd and i agree the killer experience was miserable. It didn't look fun at all. I hope they don't get rid of mmr but it would still be good if they would be a) more transparent about it, so we finally know how it works exactly (since it's just estimations) and b) maybe find a way so new players just can't get paired against a person with 2k hours, i don't know if this is possible but it would be good if that doesn't happen.
it would be very cool if they were more clear, but I'm afraid we would discover in the end they prioritize matchmaking time and mmr is very loosely involved in it :|
As a survivor main who's played since long before 6.1, I can definitely agree with this take. Before the update playing survivor WAS more fun and it WAS much easier, but I find myself enjoying the challenge of adapting to new changes and perks etc. I've seen HUGE and I do mean huge improvements to the game since 6.1 released, and I think the introduction of MMR was one of those improvements. From my experience , MMR has put me in the most amount of games that really feel fair, I don't have to take gambles anymore on if my random teammates will be brainless or not. And with the constant tweaking of perks/maps I can feel the game becoming more strategically optimized with things like check spots and figuring out counterplay to certain perk builds/killers. This may only be on the higher MMR side where you really see these sort of changes have incredible impact but I seriously think that without the introduction of balanced matchmaking and MMR, this game would be in the dirt.
Yeah that pretty much summarizes my point. It was also much easier to make compilations or have entire games where you would window tech a baby plague 400 times in a row, but guess what - that should simply almost never happen. A lot of people just miss having a yt-worthy game every hour I swear (and I can assure you I make survivor compilations with ~a month of material myself). It is harder for new players tho, because more competent players on average means more to catch up to
I played DBD since from when the farm map was night and I remember going into lobby after lobby of DS/Unbreakable every game. Survivors sitting on gens in your face with DS knowing you can't do anything about it but slug them and let them pick themselves up with unbreakable. It wasn't just a negativity bias thing either, DS/Unbreakable/Dead Hard/Borrowed Time was practically ubiquitous back then. It would not be uncommon to see an entire soloQ team with all three of these perks on, you can see that in video footage from the time. Also people hardly ever used BT as an antitunnel measure, during snowball situations it would be a bad idea to hook more than one survivor because if someone gets the save, the person with BT can unhook with the BT protection. The meta is still DS/Unbreakable but it is nowhere near as bad because of the Conspicuous Action change, and the perks aren't so common you see entire teams running DS/Unbreakable and Borrowed Time is no longer necessary.
Strong perks are still the best picks, but now I do see something different from time to time - back then it was honestly EVERYONE DS/BT/UB/DH, and pop/ruin/undying/BBQ, literally a given, no change whatsoever. So I do think we are going in the right direction, but it's hard to make people swing more towars the "not caring about winning" part
The "competitivisation" is what ruined many games for me. I enjoy the random bullshit in fun games like Team Fortress and many games before SBMM became a thing. I don't always want to tryhard and give it my all... It's fun to be surprised and have to adapt to new situations instead of the same meta build 15 times in a row.
true, I honestly get surprised when the other side has a perk that is not between the top 10 picks and I wish I could see my survivors when they stun me and get blinded in return :D
Amen to that sister. Playing since alpha and beta tests with a collective 12k hours. it really is huge copium, ironically i actually play killer now more than survivor than before where's in the past I actually played swf more, the hud changes made playing solo a bit more bearable.. MMR is pretty 50/50 on me, it used to drive me crazy but guess what, I stopped playing sweaty ran more experimental builds and stopped caring so much about killing and escaping. and my opponents started becoming less sweaty. the thing with MMR is just that people are being matched against opponents that are more in their experience or knowledge level. and also over time its natural for a game even at the mid general mmr for people to get better because content on how to play better and making good choices, and being optimal is much more readily available. mmr is not gonna leave, its suicide for a game to do that because you're gonna put off new players from playing your game and in turn buying your mtx/skins. the best solution to this, is to just have Ranked queue and Arcade queue with the regular and LTM modes.
I couldn't have phrased this better honestly. Mmr is made purposefully to adapt to the player level, and except for intermediate players who just raised to high mmr and really need to turn their game up a notch I see no issue with it. Do I lose against the occasional 50k hour squad? Of course - and that's only fair. If mmr wasn't there, how many noobs would I be stomping if I only lose against those squads OFTEN? I swear a lot of people would not be satisfied by anything less than a 99% killrate or a baby bubba every other game. It's also nice to see someone with so many hours still being interested in the game! I hope it will be my case too.
It was fun cause it was stupid, unbalanced and the main objective for both sides was to have fun, now the game is made to be optimized by both survivors and killers because the devs want dbd to be competitive instead of for fun.
I miss Old DBD. When Decisive Strike didn't have any activation requirements and conspicuous actions didn't exist. When you had to dribble Survivors to hooks or slug them all to death (: I think people tend to remember the feeling of playing they had before, that they don't have anymore. Then they rationalize why they don't feel the way they used to. (There's only one person with thousands of hours I know who is still truly obsessed with the game.) MMR is a convenient scapegoat for those people. There are three things I'll say about it. One, babies pre-MMR weren't the same as babies now. Babies back then could be hard carried - by perks, items, offerings. Even sub-optimal players could put up a little fight. Two, wanting easier matches isn't quite the same as wanting to beat up babies. For instance, most players want to win. They also might want to try new perks or avoid camping/tunneling. For most of us, that's just not attainable. Skill, talent, time, energy. I can sympathise with those people, even if my gut reaction is to say they have a skill issue. Tunneling at 5 with 4x slowdown is like a forbidden fruit lol. Easy path to 4ks, just feels super cringe. Three, there do seem to be some regions where the same players see each other constantly. I'm in a big populated server, so I don't get that. But I do see how it could make matches stale.
Oh I mostly agree! Babies pre-mmr were hard carried by perks, but babies now have all the tools to become very prepared very quickly. There are guides on how to play survivor and all killers at every level, and I myself have found a lot of great resources when I started - there is MUCH more now, since years of ulterior content have piled up. I understand your point about more casual players wanting to win without putting that much effort, and I see the issue only in the case of someone that is not very good, but has played for very long, reaching a higher mmr than they can take and losing a lot. I saw streamers losing their minds in october because they started winning "only" 50%-ish of their games... maybe the point is that people need to familiarize a little with losing. It's not a big deal, and I know of no other game where a moderately adept person (like me, I'm surely not a top killer for hours played, killer of choice, mechanical reflexes or raw skill) can go 30+ games in a row without a single loss and trying very little. Maybe losing is not that bad.
I like your video and the points you make. I'm not one who goes around saying DBD used to be more fun... but I kind of do feel that way. For me personally, there are two major factors: first, there's just so many more variables with so many more killers, perks, and maps. But I welcome all of that. The part for me that is infinitely worse than it once was is playing in Solo-queue as a survivor. Everyone seems to quit, DC, kill themselves on hook so easily! So, that's why I'd say that. It isn't a big thing, but when I do think back on the game, it has for me personally been declining in how much fun it is. Maybe it'll get better. I hope so. See you in the fog!
I hope soloq gets way more than it has rn. The hud was a good start but we need more - I have had countless teams in which just a little communication would have turned the tide. There was also more skill-expression wise, and I wish the fine tuned stuff like lightburn in a different way instead of removing it completely.
I've been playing since 2017. Survivor used to be easy bc of exploits and broken game mechanics. These days it's way more balanced than it used to be. I feel dbd is better now than it ever has been. It's not perfect and there's still issues but it's definitely in a better spot
Also, you get those matches as Freddy BECAUSE of MMR if there was no MMR, you would be facing a variety of survivors including good and bad survivors, its because there *is* MMR you only face bad survivors as Freddy, though that would change if you started winning with him a lot, then your MMR will put you into higher lobbies with better survivors.
the problem is that MMR has not been coded to have a killer go up with the others even if you don't play them for a very long time. This is a problem on how it is implemented - MMR works instead completely fine for me on new killers, where even on my first matches I get decent survivors. They simply didn't think someone could not touch a killer for years.
I'm still new to dbd since I started last year (as a survivor) then tried killer since then I play both. Though, about the MMR, it's a mix bag for sure. I don't ever feel good about beating beginners, I see their big mistakes in chases and panic dropping pallets etc.. I can tell half the time they barely started not too long ago. Though, despite I try to play fair half the time without sweating (I don't have fun against coordinated swfs). I've seen how old dbd is like from 2016 to now, and I'm glad certain things aren't as strong anymore and changed.
Oh I have a prime example of how coordinated swfs can be unfun - my friends and I talking to each other, barely making callouts, and still 3 escaping this poor p100 blight in 6 minutes, who only had BBQ on :( I have never been happier to let a killer get me. And we are not even that good, and we didn't even have gen perks or strong toolboxes, we weren't even TRYING - but on survivor all you have to do is sit on gens and prerun, and you already have a significant advantage - and you WILL sit on gens and prerun, since most of the players you face will sweat. It feels really bad to be part of this cycle sometimes.
@@rogueroentgen I get that, the other day I had a twitch streamer bring me into eeryie of crows along with his friends. And despite I tried to do what I can. I almost lost badly, but the streamer made a mistake which also costed a steve who was beckoning me earlier to chase him for both to be killed in the end and finished with a 2k, kate escaped crawling and feng left also cuz there was nothing they can do. So what happened through the match, I wasn't having enough pressure cuz I assume they were a swf and they kept my tvs off and pre-running away from me, which became annoying. They tried their best to make me chase them at shack, but Ik better than to fall for that from any swf doesn't matter who it is. Then at the end was, the kate tried to help the streamer which I had on 2nd hook, she freed him then, I managed to land a m1 on her before she unhooked him. And the streamer tried to body block me, but thankfully I was playing sadako at the time and demanifested through the streamer and got a down on the kate. Then the streamer panicked and I downed him as well. Hooked the streamer and he died, then went after steve. But I saw feng coming to what looked like a ftp+bu. Though she didnt have that on, I went after steve instead. Since he went into 2nd hook earlier, gave me enough reason to go after him. And I did, he panicked dead hard and I didnt swing yet afterwards. Downed him as well, after steve was dead. Everyone else was gone, it was such a annoying match, I didnt bother to say ggs at all and left. That match annoyed me so much, and I wish I had taken out the streamer earlier, cuz it wouldn't have been as stressful like it turned out to be. Still I am happy with taking out the streamer and steve, cuz they were the back bone of the team. Kate and feng were literally just gen jockeys lol.
I even think playing as Survivor was worse especially if you didn't rely on meta. The Solo-HUD is a godsend. BUT I still miss pre-MMR matchmaking. It was chaotic, but hey, unpredictability is fun.
The hud was really the greates qol we got, I still can't get over the fact we used to not even know if there was a chase going on or if gens were being done
I agreed with a lot of what you said till you got to SBMM. I will never agree with it and nobody can change my mind. I’ve watched it ruin soooo many games like dbd, madden, Cod etc. In your “example” with Freddy saying you get baby survivors because you don’t play him that much and the games are boring, that’s a you problem. MMR ruined this game like it has ruined all games it’s ever been implemented into. The point of ORGANIC MATCH MAKING like what cod and dbd had is to teach the player where they need to improve AND THEN THEY SEE THERE GROWTH OVERTIME. It’s the reason why XDefiant is KILLING COD rn bc it’s made from former cod devs who specifically made the game to be random. This randomness leads to variety which leads to more fun to be had. Some games you get stomped other games you stomp other ppl. Over time you’re supposed to get better and the sign you know you are is you get stomped far less and do the stomping far more. Dbd isn’t balanced nearly enough to warrant mmr, and if I’m being honest, it’s the reason why the games still very poorly balanced. Mmr breeds sweaty ppl who figure out how to consistently break the game. Ppl would be less incentivized to find breakpoints if they weren’t constantly getting screwed over. I’ve been playing this game since 2018 and even streamed it for 3 years. If I could have the old dbd pre mmr with the current design of the game it would be a million times better than the game we have now. I also kinda find it ironic you tell ppl to not care about SBMM when you quite literally don’t know how it works in dbd. The min range is 650 and the cap is 1650. The higher you go the less likely you are to find ppl not running boring ass perks in the same build you have seen hundreds of times. The other issue with SBMM is how easily it is to manipulate like YT like Ayrun, JRM, Noob3 etc have done. They lowered there MMR to the lowest possible to CONSISTENTLY get new players so they can shit all over them in a video. That can only happen in SBMM if it was organic Match Making you wouldn’t be able to manipulate it to play new players over and over and over again.
I'm afraid you are the one who's not very familiar with dbd mmr system. it doesn't stop at 1600, that's just the soft cap (which has been increased in october/november, we don't know to which value). The system progresses till 3000, as hackers datamined using bots that can instawin the match. Also, idk what games you are having but mmr does exactly the part where "Some games you get stomped other games you stomp other ppl. Over time you’re supposed to get better and the sign you know you are is you get stomped far less and do the stomping far more", which is exactly what happens to me. Yes, people tend to run the same perks but that doesn't make up for their skill - I don't see an incredible variety of builds, but some people get carried simply by their perks and it shows, and those games are very easy for the other side. Again, as I said in the video, lowering your mmr would require you to lose offline the same amount of matches you win online, and none's got time for that - if you play enough you will get enough clips, and if you are experienced enough you don't need babies to juice - I have videos posted of me juicing a 5k hours p100 nurse for the entire game, if you wanna see one in particular.
I started playing in April 2021 (right after All Kill chapter/when Trickster was released) and the game is in a much better state now, generally. Yes, MMR is annoying, but all the quality-of-life changes are amazing. Old Dead Hard was really stupid and Survivors would 90% of the time DH for distance, which made a lot of really bad Survivors think they're good at looping because they got carried by DH for distance. The gen kick meta with Eruption when Knight released was straight up awful and I had quit temporarily because of it. The busted Circle of Healing era was also awful, because boons were everywhere and games would last forever. I used some of these busted things and they were fun to use, but they were terrible to go against.
oh my you just brought back to my memory some horrible matches with reworked eruption - that shit was one of the most unfun things this game has ever had. And old DH - I distinctly remember going on a HUGE winstreak post 6.1 simply because the survivor I usually faced were, well, clearly not as good as they thought :D And yes, qol! That's something we have been asking for years, and we are finally being splurged!
(Survivor Main/Solo Queue) I miss old DBD because it had fewer boring killers to versus at that time. I no longer play but still like to watch content. I never depipped to play against baby killers but used to love the Red Ranks in the old MMR because it placed you with competent players. That was the goal of the week, to climb out if Yellow and Green rank to get into Red. Red rank was not perfect but it held a better likelihood of better Killers and better teams, all without SWF. If I could take old MMR into the current DBD it might be fun again. I left DBD because of the bad MMR it just gave me trash or baby teammates. The killers got more and more annoying. I would get a 1000 hour Huntress and 30 hours David. Was just trash matchmaking non stop. I think I quit before Knight and Skull Merchant. Right after the removal of Dead Hard but its not the reason I left. MMR just got dramatically worse after that. I never experiences it that bad ever in all my time since 2019. For clarity less annoying killers means too much Legion. After the 3rd Legion in a row it became an issue of variety. I also missed HillBilly as they nerfed him so bad he was non-existent. I loved Bubba and saw less of him too. Michael Myers became less and less. I rarely saw Pig anymore. I basically became DBD2 with new killers. Cenobyte, DeathSlinger, Trickster, Ghostface, and Blight was all I saw anymore. That and tons of Legions every damn time I played. The classic killers went away with the exception of the very fun Huntress.
I agree that variety on the survivor side is quite lacking. I love legion and almost never get any, it's all blight, huntress, billy and wesker (i really dislike huntress) and I can really see why a survivor main would not want to play against the same thing all over again. Thankfully I am a killer main and at least I can see some variety on that side, but survivor perks are also mostly the same rotation. Multiple people that played when ranks determined matchmaking have offered great insights under this post and I am quite convinced that, at least for survivor, it was a better measure of the quality of who you would be getting as a teammate, while i think on killer hookstates should be the go-to. You quit at a pretty good time, cause during knight/skull merchant time the killer meta was the most obnoxious possible, but it's much better now and I feel I am getting more homogeneous lobbies as killer, where the entire team is around the same skill level. Sometimes we are mismatched, but I rarely get a 10k hour player paired with babies that cannot look behind anymore.
@@rogueroentgen In the early days it was 10-25 minute wait times. It would then rotate to the Killer wait times being obnoxiously long and then back to survivor. This happened everytime they did some "adjustments". Finally when they seemed to get it sorted out, we got some time to enjoy decent times on both sides. Bubba, Hillbilly, Huntress and Myers are my top favs and in that order. Legion just gets old. There weren't too many nights that I played where I didn't get a Legion. It was expected. Mending gets very old. The addons get annoying as hell. Most Legion matches were different and while that sounds innovative, but it isn't fun to not know how to counter a killer until you play against that particular Legion and see their playstyle. Literally no consistency. Pallet breaker, Mix Tape, etc. It seems not so bad but when the addons are basically perks it becomes damn annoying. The old MMR was perfect imo, you DC then you would depip and be punished that way. People doing this to play casual instead of competitive is what ruined it for everyone. BHVR did a survey and like many others I maybe voted for casual thinking they meant competitive in terms of Esports stuff, and so I voted for casual. I should have voted for competitive. I miss it. Most matches toward the end of when I played was horrible. Baby survivors constantly, long wait times again, DC'ing survivors, sometimes baby killers and you start to feel bad because people are trolling them, and then the killer perks were so obnoxious, Nemesis had a perk where the zombies were on drugs and you cant even do gens. The last straw was a combo perk that explodes the gens you are working on and when you released another perk would capture the gen for less than a minute. Was what killers were using that whole time and it was a crap show and the last straw for me and so I left. Idk if thats what you are referring to when you mentioned the meta perks for killer at that time but those were enough for me to quit permanent.
i started playing in 2020 and have played 60/40 killer/survivor before mmr i got to red ranks with mid tier killers like clown. never in my time have i said i liked the way the game was sure there a few things i liked in older versions but i knew they where changed for the better. there are times like with the twins in the PTB where it is OVER tuned but those are rare
I think a good example is fortnite, everyone collectively became better so trying to hop in and play a quick match became a lot more painful because you’re gonna get shit on if you dont know the 1007383837 techs to buliding and editing and / or if you dont have 0 ping ur also screwed. Dbd isnt fun when a billy bounces back and forth on a hooked survivor at 5 gens, but doing that as the billy creates so much pressure on everyone else its like why wouldnt you do that because now they either have to save before second stage and risk either trading or giving another hook, or just let them die on hook to do gens
yeah! I totally get it. As killer you are like "why would I relent" because you know if you do they most likely have the capability to bounce back tenfolds from the inch you gave them, and as survivor why would you do anything except sitting on gens and playing optimally? But it comes with the game being this old and having this many guides/examples. It's also the reason why I'll never do a winstreak.
I think most people that bring up this argument are just nostalgic, I confess I also found the game more fun back then (as a killer main) but I just miss the old times. It was good to have my friends and be able to play the game all day with them. and also today the game got kinda boring to me because I played it multiple times and it just got to repetitive, sure if the game was like this back then I would enjoy it even more but I cannot help but to miss the old DBD once I see the old graphics or an old video xD
Agreed! Nostalgia is a big factor and I think just seeing one of the old maps can bring the feelings back. A lot of people can't separate their feelings for a better, past time when the game was fresh and their friends were always playing from the game actually being better - and I think that's where the entire issue lays
First great video and topic. As someone whos been here since year 4 I’ve seen both things change. Killer was most definitely worse back in the day. I just played it anyway. But that’s why survivor queues were awful. I do mildly disagree with the MMR part. I think it’s more nuance than you give it. Not saying I want babies. That would be absolutely boring. It’s more that mmr brought the game to a more sweaty place overall. Making it feel bad to run fun builds. I still do and sometimes it feels AWFUL. Though that’s the game. Ive had to really take a step back and not try to win every game like I used to. As an ex competitor in sports, and esports it was hard to do this. I enjoy dbd so much I hate getting so easily pissed at it for simply losing. I still fight tilt every so often, and when I do I have to take a break. But I always call myself out that I’m a sweaty killer. Even if I don’t run “meta”
Thanks for your comment! Honestly, I'm jealous - I cannot get tilted even if I tried (and I was thinking about putting my undefeatable chillness to community service by explaining how I do it), and I find a (healthy) amount of feelings in that direction to be nice and adding to the experience - I wish I could feel that way sometimes xD but it's honestly commendable that you know you can get tilted, that it can be problematic for you and you know how to step away. It's ok to be sweaty, and knowing that you are - there's nothing wrong with putting your heart into something, and as much as I care for the game and being better I just... don't get pissed. Ever. Idk why. About MMR - the point is not the invisible number imho, because it is, well, invisible. You could be winning or losing 100 games in a row, you would have nothing to show for it. I think on one side people got better over time, and that of course made the average match sweatier, but also people saw because of that how little they had to do to win a bit more, to be slightly better than the other side - the red queen paradox. Give it years, and we get survivors never leaving gens and killers tunneling anyone that doesn't hold checkspots like they were their fiancee every game.
im 300h in and i love my xeno to death~ but the only reason i keep on playing isn't bcz it's a fun game... it's just that i have a stubborn personality...
@@rogueroentgen ow i am having a lot of fun~ but for a newbie it's more frustration than fun overall cuz it's not beginner-friendly at all haha but i do get a lot of help from ppl in my chat and stuff, but It's still not cool having to look outside of the game for everything ya need :D
@@SleepyMockiii absolutely wish the tutorials were better. I also had to look up a lot of stuff back in the days and I can see why some people may lose interest quickly
Another thing is that you are talking a lot about winning and losing, and that's exactly the wrong mindset to have in dbd, the real way to win is to do something different and just have fun with it, even if you lose.
this exact mindset is why I don't have an issue with mmr. I still get to bring my fun builds into the game and have some fun moments in the game. do I lose more games with those fun builds because of mmr? yes, but that doesn't matter, since wins isn't what I'm going after. my goal is to have fun and to get value from silly builds, or to get some good moments when I'm playing as killer (like getting snipes with artist), and i can still get those, even if I don't win
I am talking about winning and losing because that's what a lot of people care about. As I (again) said in the video, I don't care about losing, otherwise I wouldn't play dozens of matches as perkless m1 killers
Iron Grasp + Agitation + Machine Gun on Trapper was unironically the most fun i've had with DBD. Being able to hard counter sabotage with being able to carry people over the entire map to basement always felt satisfying. I'm tired of you new joiners trying to say it was copium thinking something more chaotic and busted isn't as fun as some watered down boring garbage patch version of the same game.
@@rogueroentgen Hours isn't a metric for how long people have been playing for, anymore. I'm at over 3k since 2016 cause there's alot of other games I want to play. That being said I didn't say anything about people not knowing what the old metas/glitches were i'm simply saying that era was fun as hell and now it isn't.
Ye i can tell how fun old dbd was. I download the game. played 10 games on huntress because big muscle mommy got stomp by way better players for most of my games and then just quit for a long time. Just a horrible experience for new players, if you have a problem with mrr being to sweaty, maybe you are the problem. I do miss old dh, just loved having extra movement options on suv, but ye deserved nerf.
I don't think you don't realise how much "Bullshit" both killers and survivors had back in the day, Iridescent mori could kill a survivor after 1 hook, Instant healing without syringe, locker flashlight saving, camping basement and hooks, Instantly killing a survivor off hook because base-kit BT didn't exist, decisive strike lasting forever and being unable to be deactivated, old pain resonance having infinite uses, old pop goes the weasel, call of brine + overcharge + eruption combo, old circle of healing boon, and killer was definitely more fun before as well, Sky billy has been removed, sky demo is also gone, hug Teching is harder now and supposedly getting removed soon, Ruin + undying + surveillance + Pop meta which allowed killers to literally not worry about gens at all an just focus on chase all game, which 100% made playing killer an extreme amount more fun cause instead of being worried about gens all game you could actually just play the game and go for chases. So don't say the game wasn't more fun for killers back then, ESPECAILLY when you didn't even play the game then, In fact I would argue you don't have a say in this subject BECAUSE you didn't play then, but its still nice to hear the opinion of someone who wasn't there, a fresh look on the whole situation is lovely. I was there to experience all of it since early 2020 so yes I am definitely a bit biased but I can also see that the direction the game has taken is not healthy for anyone what so ever.
the first thing I said in the video is literally that I was there pre 6.1 so yeah, I was there :) I surely didn't play since the beta, but it has been over 2 years :)
@@rogueroentgen There is nothing restricting me from speaking my mind, as such I have done so, if you have a problem with that maybe you should turn off comments.
Nah dbd didn't get worse in the 6.1 update it got bad already after the first major graphics update when they removed the snappy survivor movement, the game was more fun because it was so stupid, there was so many bugs and dumb things you could do, like we weren't restricted by realism or balance, It was just like a playground with no rules where the only objective was to have fun, we were more careless, we just played the game to have fun, now the only way to have fun is to win, I cannot tell you how many times I have lost a game and still had fun, now that doesn't happen anymore cause both killers and survivors just optimize and play into the meta that the devs have created to be competitive, instead of having been created to be fun.
@@aroace7913 And look what balance brought us, boring matches where everyone just optimize and don't do anything other than trying to win despite how many possibilities and fun ways there are to play dbd.
Ya I agree. The whole spiel about old Deadhard creating an “accessibility issue” made absolutely no sense. I was and still am a survivor main who only plays killer when none of my friends are on. The fact that she cites old Deadhard as being broken because she couldn’t tell if she got spun or Deadharded is legitimately one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Idk how she as a killer main couldn’t discern whether it was Deadhard or a spin, but to me her whole argument just sounds like a big giant skill issue. Only recently have I started actually prestiging and playing killer seriously, and there’s a problem if somebody like me can consistently get 3-4 Ks. The game is not meant to be balanced by nature just reset it to let every survivor perk be at its strongest (while not breaking the game) and let every kill perk be reset to its strongest too.
Lmfao and I also loved the complaining about BBQ n Chili vs We’re Gonna Live Forever😂😂 Obviously she didn’t know we’re gonna live forever paled in comparison to the boost you’d get from BBQ n Chili, which was easier to use in general n just offered more BP
@@cruzujfalusy6474 Most survivor veterans almost exclusively play killer these days. The overwhelming majority of the survivor playerbase is the influx of new players who come after a content drop, but leave very quickly once they realize that Survivor is literally just a punching bag for killers to get their rocks off. I've been playing since 2017 and was a killer main for years until after 6.1 when I finally switched over to survivor. Call me crazy, but winning almost every game by default became extremely monotonous and unfun. I haven't even touched this game for over 6 months now. Not sure I ever will again. I'm increasingly seeing Survivor content creators announcing their departure from the game citing the game is horrible for their mental health. I don't blame them and is the main reason I stopped playing myself. Skill expression has almost been completely removed from the game, and the game is HEAVILY geared towards below average killers to dominate matches with extremely low effort. It's why you get such insanely delusional takes like this video. A bad killer who feels extremely entitled to win every single match they play, and if they lose one, regardless of any factors and no accountability for their own mistakes, just means survivor is OP. I mean you just had a dude go on a 1900+ win streak with blight, which was finally ended by some stream snipers and he through a tantrum like a child and suggested the game was extremely unfair for killer. I mean how delusional can the killer community get? Well, I'm glad they're finally getting the game they wanted. Idk who they're going to play it with, but congratulations I guess. People with 10k+ hours are now completely abandoning the game.
@@cruzujfalusy6474old dead hard problematic since it could basically make you invincible. You loop the killer, killer hits you and you make distance, killer gives up and you mend, rinse and repeat. It was objectively unbalanced, but making it usable only twice per trial was admittedly overkill, still how would balance a literal 3rd health state? That's perhaps the biggest dilemma
@@cruzujfalusy6474they simply stated that BBQ and Chili is not a free perk, and that u had to buy a dlc first and then gain bps to unlock it for all killers. So it was even harder for killer since u had to buy a dlc first and David has always been free
@@aroace7913 Yes, every once in a while I Want a chill game where I can think to myself "this guy is dead on hook I won't kill him" I'm tired of the same sweaty lobbies over and over, its not fun, if I don't use the most metal build every game then I just lose and then there's nothing more to it, It really is either sweat or lose and that isn't the game I want to play, games are supposed to be fun, sure winning a sweaty match can be fun but when every single match is just the same sweaty situation over and over then what is the point? I want variation, and I wanna be able to go into a match and not know what to expect of the survivors, right now as it stands if I load up a killer game I already know I am gonna face a swf with 4 adrens and 4 dead hards and etc, who are gonna gen rush and play optimally, where is the fun in knowing what you are gonna play against, let alone actually playing against that knowing how not fun it will be because I am just trying to enjoy myself but I can't because it feels like I am forced to face the exact same swf team over and over and very very rarely miraculously get a game that might cause me slightly less stress than Usually, a healthy game is a game where sometimes you have easy matches, and sometimes you have very hard ones, not just the same over and over, the game would be just as boring if the only survivors I faced was new players, just getting free wins over and over and not having to actually try would get very boring and dry as well, its not about noob stomping or not wanting a tough match, its about having a balanced game where sometimes you can have unexpected different experiences and not just the same exact match over and over.
"it's cool to see yourself in a videogame" literally why I play artist, or any game with a character creator that isn't awful (like Elden Ring for example. One of my favorite games, but god, that character creator sucks) I didn't even know that people didn't like the 6.1.0 patch. It was mostly a positive in my opinion (ironically, the 6.1.0 dead hard was actually stronger than the old dead hard). But the reason I didn't know that people don't like 6.1.0 (aside from me not being active in communities), is because I've been hearing "old dbd was more fun" even before 6.1.0 (I started playing in 2021 during the twins chapter for reference). About the MMR, I have absolutely no issues with it. Maybe I'm just lucky with where I am, but I still get a wide spectrum of players, and I personally also have trouble identifying when someone tryhards in dbd. Like, of course you have the ftp + buckle up and background player teams, and sometimes they are tryhards, but sometimes they're just having a goof with their friends. I don't know that, so I don't ever take it seriously. But I have to admit, my experience with MMR has to be taken with a bit of salt. I have 0 issues with DBD's MMR, but that might be because the game I played before DBD was Apex Legends, which had the most awful matchmaking I ever experienced. So maybe it's not that DBD's MMR is fine like I think it is, maybe my expectations for a good MMR are just in the gutter.
Trust me DBD's MMR is god awful...you can lose 20 times in a row and still be paired with thousands of hours tryhards. But sometimes the exact opposite happens... Yeah it's an inconsistent mess. I wish they'd remove it entirely
yeah, i might just be desensitized to it because of apex legends then. in that game it wasn't just losing 20 games in a row, it was losing for multiple seasons in a row. going from a 2.25kd before the implementation of skill-based matchmaking, all the way to a 0.9kd multiple seasons later, and still consistently getting opponents who are in the top 1% fighting for leaderboard spots, even with my kd ratio being negative and my win rate being at like 2%
@@faded7217 I am also biased towards the fact that I don't really care for winning, I wanna play a good match and do well, but if I lose because I spent 10 minutes chasing Kekso (that actually happened once) I have no problem accepting the skill issue on my side xD There is also the fact that things were "always better before" but it's just nostalgia bias, in most cases. Especially when money are involved, people producing something will ALWAYS make it better and more palatable. I'm glad you find THIS community pleasant enough to participate, your comments always offer a lot of interesting inputs for me!
Yeah nah, sorry to be that guy, but old dbd was better by a mile, yes it was more unbalanced, that's what made it fun in the 1st place tho, nowadays they're removing skill expression and all the fun for balance and I'm not a big fan of this, look at what they did to the shop... this is not the same game anymore it's just a money making machine atp
Especially after what they did to my poor blight, it feels so miserable to crutch on double iris, run 4 slowdowns and play optimal bump logic, he's even stronger but all the fun is gone it's just miserable
And I don't think that most things were that broken in comparison tbh, or at least less fun to verse then ftp buckle up or backgroundplayer, personally I think most stuff were just fine and even if they would've been more busted, they were at least more fun to verse and allowed more counterplay then the bs they run today
@@rogueroentgen not the stone age version ofc, I agree that those things deserve to be gone, but around 2020 it was just perfect with old dh etc, if you genuinely think the current state of survivor perks and blight not beeing able to hug tech anymore is fun, I just have to disagree sorry
@@rogueroentgen them dropping pay to win skins and updating the shop, removing skill expression and holding hands with bad or average players, just because they will be paying the most money as the majority is just sad to see and deff not what dbd used to be
oh but this is not about personal preference but about some very specific arguments people bring along. If you preferred old dbd because of the movement or the lightings or similar stuff sure, that's completely valid. I also think old og realms looked better.
I'm glad somebody is saying this.
When survivors say they miss old dbd, it's usually for something totally busted like locker saves.
That shit was fun but totally out of control😂
I agree that old DBD was even more unbalanced and unfair, but MMR just makes the games sweaty and push people into ultra competitive playstyles that are just not fun. Eveyone only cares about winning because of the existence of matchmaking. Sure without mmr you might get complete noobs but the exact same is happening right now. I still get complete noobs after 600+ hours, and other times i get eSports sweat lords that basically play the game religiously. So i still advocate for the removal of MMR, it will at least encourage players to care less about winning and bring in more fun/niche builds on both sides
Dude how tf does mmr encourage people to play sweaty? It just pits sweaty people against eachother. You can’t see mmr, you get no bp or cosmetics for being high mmr, if anything it just makes your opponents sweatier, discouraging it.
I can see your point, but MMR has nothing to show for winning. You can lose all of your games, and will miss on no achievement, reward or number to show off to your chat or friends - people sweat (imho) because the game is quite popular now and there are a lot of tools that teach how to play better/optimally/more competitively and most people simply like winning.
I can totally see why MMR seems crushing to you, because I had the same experience around the same number of hours - I must have reached high mmr or something because I got paired with the same people that I get paired with now, with the difference that now I am equipped to deal with them at the time I absolutely wasn't and playing killer was a quite anxious moment to me. BHVR should really do better for intermediate players, with that I absolutely agree
@@gigawattzgamereviews2094I dunno, but maybe it's just matchmaking not working properly? I mean it would make sense if I get less experienced survivors if I lose constantly but that doesn't always happen
Dude mmr hardly does anything you’re preaching nothing
@@canevas1017 if it doesn't do anything why shouldn't they remove it then?
i love that depipping is no longer a thing , cause this was basically the only reason i sometimes had to sweat as killer. As for the matchmaking, i think my mmr is somewhere around mid, i don't like it when i get matched against babies cause it doesn't feel amazing, honestly it is boring cause it is to easy. Also i feel sorry for them. I only watched someone play old dbd and i agree the killer experience was miserable. It didn't look fun at all. I hope they don't get rid of mmr but it would still be good if they would be
a) more transparent about it, so we finally know how it works exactly (since it's just estimations)
and b) maybe find a way so new players just can't get paired against a person with 2k hours, i don't know if this is possible but it would be good if that doesn't happen.
it would be very cool if they were more clear, but I'm afraid we would discover in the end they prioritize matchmaking time and mmr is very loosely involved in it :|
@@rogueroentgenyea probably something like that cause bhvr
As a survivor main who's played since long before 6.1, I can definitely agree with this take. Before the update playing survivor WAS more fun and it WAS much easier, but I find myself enjoying the challenge of adapting to new changes and perks etc. I've seen HUGE and I do mean huge improvements to the game since 6.1 released, and I think the introduction of MMR was one of those improvements. From my experience , MMR has put me in the most amount of games that really feel fair, I don't have to take gambles anymore on if my random teammates will be brainless or not. And with the constant tweaking of perks/maps I can feel the game becoming more strategically optimized with things like check spots and figuring out counterplay to certain perk builds/killers. This may only be on the higher MMR side where you really see these sort of changes have incredible impact but I seriously think that without the introduction of balanced matchmaking and MMR, this game would be in the dirt.
Yeah that pretty much summarizes my point. It was also much easier to make compilations or have entire games where you would window tech a baby plague 400 times in a row, but guess what - that should simply almost never happen. A lot of people just miss having a yt-worthy game every hour I swear (and I can assure you I make survivor compilations with ~a month of material myself). It is harder for new players tho, because more competent players on average means more to catch up to
I played DBD since from when the farm map was night and I remember going into lobby after lobby of DS/Unbreakable every game. Survivors sitting on gens in your face with DS knowing you can't do anything about it but slug them and let them pick themselves up with unbreakable. It wasn't just a negativity bias thing either, DS/Unbreakable/Dead Hard/Borrowed Time was practically ubiquitous back then. It would not be uncommon to see an entire soloQ team with all three of these perks on, you can see that in video footage from the time. Also people hardly ever used BT as an antitunnel measure, during snowball situations it would be a bad idea to hook more than one survivor because if someone gets the save, the person with BT can unhook with the BT protection. The meta is still DS/Unbreakable but it is nowhere near as bad because of the Conspicuous Action change, and the perks aren't so common you see entire teams running DS/Unbreakable and Borrowed Time is no longer necessary.
Strong perks are still the best picks, but now I do see something different from time to time - back then it was honestly EVERYONE DS/BT/UB/DH, and pop/ruin/undying/BBQ, literally a given, no change whatsoever. So I do think we are going in the right direction, but it's hard to make people swing more towars the "not caring about winning" part
The "competitivisation" is what ruined many games for me. I enjoy the random bullshit in fun games like Team Fortress and many games before SBMM became a thing. I don't always want to tryhard and give it my all... It's fun to be surprised and have to adapt to new situations instead of the same meta build 15 times in a row.
true, I honestly get surprised when the other side has a perk that is not between the top 10 picks and I wish I could see my survivors when they stun me and get blinded in return :D
Amen to that sister. Playing since alpha and beta tests with a collective 12k hours. it really is huge copium, ironically i actually play killer now more than survivor than before where's in the past I actually played swf more, the hud changes made playing solo a bit more bearable..
MMR is pretty 50/50 on me, it used to drive me crazy but guess what, I stopped playing sweaty ran more experimental builds and stopped caring so much about killing and escaping. and my opponents started becoming less sweaty. the thing with MMR is just that people are being matched against opponents that are more in their experience or knowledge level. and also over time its natural for a game even at the mid general mmr for people to get better because content on how to play better and making good choices, and being optimal is much more readily available.
mmr is not gonna leave, its suicide for a game to do that because you're gonna put off new players from playing your game and in turn buying your mtx/skins. the best solution to this, is to just have Ranked queue and Arcade queue with the regular and LTM modes.
I couldn't have phrased this better honestly.
Mmr is made purposefully to adapt to the player level, and except for intermediate players who just raised to high mmr and really need to turn their game up a notch I see no issue with it.
Do I lose against the occasional 50k hour squad? Of course - and that's only fair. If mmr wasn't there, how many noobs would I be stomping if I only lose against those squads OFTEN?
I swear a lot of people would not be satisfied by anything less than a 99% killrate or a baby bubba every other game.
It's also nice to see someone with so many hours still being interested in the game! I hope it will be my case too.
I only started playing the middle of last year. So, I'm blissfully unaware of the 'fun' version streamers keep pining for.
It was fun cause it was stupid, unbalanced and the main objective for both sides was to have fun, now the game is made to be optimized by both survivors and killers because the devs want dbd to be competitive instead of for fun.
honestly SLAY KING. It's for the better probably xD
@@rogueroentgen I am a girl
@@wyzlight2028 oh I was answering the author of the thread, it was meant as a gender neutral king anyway :)
I miss Old DBD. When Decisive Strike didn't have any activation requirements and conspicuous actions didn't exist. When you had to dribble Survivors to hooks or slug them all to death (:
I think people tend to remember the feeling of playing they had before, that they don't have anymore. Then they rationalize why they don't feel the way they used to. (There's only one person with thousands of hours I know who is still truly obsessed with the game.) MMR is a convenient scapegoat for those people.
There are three things I'll say about it. One, babies pre-MMR weren't the same as babies now. Babies back then could be hard carried - by perks, items, offerings. Even sub-optimal players could put up a little fight.
Two, wanting easier matches isn't quite the same as wanting to beat up babies. For instance, most players want to win. They also might want to try new perks or avoid camping/tunneling. For most of us, that's just not attainable. Skill, talent, time, energy. I can sympathise with those people, even if my gut reaction is to say they have a skill issue. Tunneling at 5 with 4x slowdown is like a forbidden fruit lol. Easy path to 4ks, just feels super cringe.
Three, there do seem to be some regions where the same players see each other constantly. I'm in a big populated server, so I don't get that. But I do see how it could make matches stale.
No, you miss being able to stunt on people with overpowered shit they removed from the game.
Oh I mostly agree!
Babies pre-mmr were hard carried by perks, but babies now have all the tools to become very prepared very quickly. There are guides on how to play survivor and all killers at every level, and I myself have found a lot of great resources when I started - there is MUCH more now, since years of ulterior content have piled up.
I understand your point about more casual players wanting to win without putting that much effort, and I see the issue only in the case of someone that is not very good, but has played for very long, reaching a higher mmr than they can take and losing a lot. I saw streamers losing their minds in october because they started winning "only" 50%-ish of their games... maybe the point is that people need to familiarize a little with losing.
It's not a big deal, and I know of no other game where a moderately adept person (like me, I'm surely not a top killer for hours played, killer of choice, mechanical reflexes or raw skill) can go 30+ games in a row without a single loss and trying very little. Maybe losing is not that bad.
I like your video and the points you make. I'm not one who goes around saying DBD used to be more fun... but I kind of do feel that way. For me personally, there are two major factors: first, there's just so many more variables with so many more killers, perks, and maps. But I welcome all of that. The part for me that is infinitely worse than it once was is playing in Solo-queue as a survivor. Everyone seems to quit, DC, kill themselves on hook so easily! So, that's why I'd say that. It isn't a big thing, but when I do think back on the game, it has for me personally been declining in how much fun it is. Maybe it'll get better. I hope so. See you in the fog!
I hope soloq gets way more than it has rn. The hud was a good start but we need more - I have had countless teams in which just a little communication would have turned the tide.
There was also more skill-expression wise, and I wish the fine tuned stuff like lightburn in a different way instead of removing it completely.
I've been playing since 2017. Survivor used to be easy bc of exploits and broken game mechanics. These days it's way more balanced than it used to be. I feel dbd is better now than it ever has been. It's not perfect and there's still issues but it's definitely in a better spot
yeah that honestly summarizes my point too! It's not perfect and it will never be - nor it should be, imho. But now it's enjoyable for both sides.
Also, you get those matches as Freddy BECAUSE of MMR if there was no MMR, you would be facing a variety of survivors including good and bad survivors, its because there *is* MMR you only face bad survivors as Freddy, though that would change if you started winning with him a lot, then your MMR will put you into higher lobbies with better survivors.
the problem is that MMR has not been coded to have a killer go up with the others even if you don't play them for a very long time. This is a problem on how it is implemented - MMR works instead completely fine for me on new killers, where even on my first matches I get decent survivors. They simply didn't think someone could not touch a killer for years.
@@rogueroentgen Another reason why I think they are stupid.
I'm still new to dbd since I started last year (as a survivor) then tried killer since then I play both. Though, about the MMR, it's a mix bag for sure. I don't ever feel good about beating beginners, I see their big mistakes in chases and panic dropping pallets etc.. I can tell half the time they barely started not too long ago. Though, despite I try to play fair half the time without sweating (I don't have fun against coordinated swfs). I've seen how old dbd is like from 2016 to now, and I'm glad certain things aren't as strong anymore and changed.
Oh I have a prime example of how coordinated swfs can be unfun - my friends and I talking to each other, barely making callouts, and still 3 escaping this poor p100 blight in 6 minutes, who only had BBQ on :( I have never been happier to let a killer get me.
And we are not even that good, and we didn't even have gen perks or strong toolboxes, we weren't even TRYING - but on survivor all you have to do is sit on gens and prerun, and you already have a significant advantage - and you WILL sit on gens and prerun, since most of the players you face will sweat. It feels really bad to be part of this cycle sometimes.
@@rogueroentgen I get that, the other day I had a twitch streamer bring me into eeryie of crows along with his friends. And despite I tried to do what I can. I almost lost badly, but the streamer made a mistake which also costed a steve who was beckoning me earlier to chase him for both to be killed in the end and finished with a 2k, kate escaped crawling and feng left also cuz there was nothing they can do. So what happened through the match, I wasn't having enough pressure cuz I assume they were a swf and they kept my tvs off and pre-running away from me, which became annoying. They tried their best to make me chase them at shack, but Ik better than to fall for that from any swf doesn't matter who it is. Then at the end was, the kate tried to help the streamer which I had on 2nd hook, she freed him then, I managed to land a m1 on her before she unhooked him. And the streamer tried to body block me, but thankfully I was playing sadako at the time and demanifested through the streamer and got a down on the kate. Then the streamer panicked and I downed him as well. Hooked the streamer and he died, then went after steve. But I saw feng coming to what looked like a ftp+bu. Though she didnt have that on, I went after steve instead. Since he went into 2nd hook earlier, gave me enough reason to go after him. And I did, he panicked dead hard and I didnt swing yet afterwards. Downed him as well, after steve was dead. Everyone else was gone, it was such a annoying match, I didnt bother to say ggs at all and left. That match annoyed me so much, and I wish I had taken out the streamer earlier, cuz it wouldn't have been as stressful like it turned out to be. Still I am happy with taking out the streamer and steve, cuz they were the back bone of the team. Kate and feng were literally just gen jockeys lol.
I even think playing as Survivor was worse especially if you didn't rely on meta. The Solo-HUD is a godsend. BUT I still miss pre-MMR matchmaking. It was chaotic, but hey, unpredictability is fun.
The hud was really the greates qol we got, I still can't get over the fact we used to not even know if there was a chase going on or if gens were being done
I agreed with a lot of what you said till you got to SBMM. I will never agree with it and nobody can change my mind. I’ve watched it ruin soooo many games like dbd, madden, Cod etc. In your “example” with Freddy saying you get baby survivors because you don’t play him that much and the games are boring, that’s a you problem. MMR ruined this game like it has ruined all games it’s ever been implemented into. The point of ORGANIC MATCH MAKING like what cod and dbd had is to teach the player where they need to improve AND THEN THEY SEE THERE GROWTH OVERTIME. It’s the reason why XDefiant is KILLING COD rn bc it’s made from former cod devs who specifically made the game to be random. This randomness leads to variety which leads to more fun to be had. Some games you get stomped other games you stomp other ppl. Over time you’re supposed to get better and the sign you know you are is you get stomped far less and do the stomping far more. Dbd isn’t balanced nearly enough to warrant mmr, and if I’m being honest, it’s the reason why the games still very poorly balanced. Mmr breeds sweaty ppl who figure out how to consistently break the game. Ppl would be less incentivized to find breakpoints if they weren’t constantly getting screwed over. I’ve been playing this game since 2018 and even streamed it for 3 years. If I could have the old dbd pre mmr with the current design of the game it would be a million times better than the game we have now. I also kinda find it ironic you tell ppl to not care about SBMM when you quite literally don’t know how it works in dbd. The min range is 650 and the cap is 1650. The higher you go the less likely you are to find ppl not running boring ass perks in the same build you have seen hundreds of times. The other issue with SBMM is how easily it is to manipulate like YT like Ayrun, JRM, Noob3 etc have done. They lowered there MMR to the lowest possible to CONSISTENTLY get new players so they can shit all over them in a video. That can only happen in SBMM if it was organic Match Making you wouldn’t be able to manipulate it to play new players over and over and over again.
I'm afraid you are the one who's not very familiar with dbd mmr system.
it doesn't stop at 1600, that's just the soft cap (which has been increased in october/november, we don't know to which value). The system progresses till 3000, as hackers datamined using bots that can instawin the match.
Also, idk what games you are having but mmr does exactly the part where "Some games you get stomped other games you stomp other ppl. Over time you’re supposed to get better and the sign you know you are is you get stomped far less and do the stomping far more", which is exactly what happens to me.
Yes, people tend to run the same perks but that doesn't make up for their skill - I don't see an incredible variety of builds, but some people get carried simply by their perks and it shows, and those games are very easy for the other side.
Again, as I said in the video, lowering your mmr would require you to lose offline the same amount of matches you win online, and none's got time for that - if you play enough you will get enough clips, and if you are experienced enough you don't need babies to juice - I have videos posted of me juicing a 5k hours p100 nurse for the entire game, if you wanna see one in particular.
I started playing in April 2021 (right after All Kill chapter/when Trickster was released) and the game is in a much better state now, generally.
Yes, MMR is annoying, but all the quality-of-life changes are amazing. Old Dead Hard was really stupid and Survivors would 90% of the time DH for distance, which made a lot of really bad Survivors think they're good at looping because they got carried by DH for distance.
The gen kick meta with Eruption when Knight released was straight up awful and I had quit temporarily because of it.
The busted Circle of Healing era was also awful, because boons were everywhere and games would last forever.
I used some of these busted things and they were fun to use, but they were terrible to go against.
oh my you just brought back to my memory some horrible matches with reworked eruption - that shit was one of the most unfun things this game has ever had.
And old DH - I distinctly remember going on a HUGE winstreak post 6.1 simply because the survivor I usually faced were, well, clearly not as good as they thought :D
And yes, qol! That's something we have been asking for years, and we are finally being splurged!
(Survivor Main/Solo Queue) I miss old DBD because it had fewer boring killers to versus at that time. I no longer play but still like to watch content. I never depipped to play against baby killers but used to love the Red Ranks in the old MMR because it placed you with competent players. That was the goal of the week, to climb out if Yellow and Green rank to get into Red. Red rank was not perfect but it held a better likelihood of better Killers and better teams, all without SWF. If I could take old MMR into the current DBD it might be fun again.
I left DBD because of the bad MMR it just gave me trash or baby teammates. The killers got more and more annoying. I would get a 1000 hour Huntress and 30 hours David. Was just trash matchmaking non stop. I think I quit before Knight and Skull Merchant. Right after the removal of Dead Hard but its not the reason I left. MMR just got dramatically worse after that. I never experiences it that bad ever in all my time since 2019.
For clarity less annoying killers means too much Legion. After the 3rd Legion in a row it became an issue of variety. I also missed HillBilly as they nerfed him so bad he was non-existent. I loved Bubba and saw less of him too. Michael Myers became less and less. I rarely saw Pig anymore. I basically became DBD2 with new killers. Cenobyte, DeathSlinger, Trickster, Ghostface, and Blight was all I saw anymore. That and tons of Legions every damn time I played. The classic killers went away with the exception of the very fun Huntress.
I agree that variety on the survivor side is quite lacking. I love legion and almost never get any, it's all blight, huntress, billy and wesker (i really dislike huntress) and I can really see why a survivor main would not want to play against the same thing all over again.
Thankfully I am a killer main and at least I can see some variety on that side, but survivor perks are also mostly the same rotation.
Multiple people that played when ranks determined matchmaking have offered great insights under this post and I am quite convinced that, at least for survivor, it was a better measure of the quality of who you would be getting as a teammate, while i think on killer hookstates should be the go-to.
You quit at a pretty good time, cause during knight/skull merchant time the killer meta was the most obnoxious possible, but it's much better now and I feel I am getting more homogeneous lobbies as killer, where the entire team is around the same skill level. Sometimes we are mismatched, but I rarely get a 10k hour player paired with babies that cannot look behind anymore.
@@rogueroentgen In the early days it was 10-25 minute wait times. It would then rotate to the Killer wait times being obnoxiously long and then back to survivor. This happened everytime they did some "adjustments". Finally when they seemed to get it sorted out, we got some time to enjoy decent times on both sides.
Bubba, Hillbilly, Huntress and Myers are my top favs and in that order.
Legion just gets old. There weren't too many nights that I played where I didn't get a Legion. It was expected. Mending gets very old. The addons get annoying as hell. Most Legion matches were different and while that sounds innovative, but it isn't fun to not know how to counter a killer until you play against that particular Legion and see their playstyle. Literally no consistency. Pallet breaker, Mix Tape, etc. It seems not so bad but when the addons are basically perks it becomes damn annoying.
The old MMR was perfect imo, you DC then you would depip and be punished that way. People doing this to play casual instead of competitive is what ruined it for everyone. BHVR did a survey and like many others I maybe voted for casual thinking they meant competitive in terms of Esports stuff, and so I voted for casual. I should have voted for competitive. I miss it.
Most matches toward the end of when I played was horrible. Baby survivors constantly, long wait times again, DC'ing survivors, sometimes baby killers and you start to feel bad because people are trolling them, and then the killer perks were so obnoxious, Nemesis had a perk where the zombies were on drugs and you cant even do gens. The last straw was a combo perk that explodes the gens you are working on and when you released another perk would capture the gen for less than a minute. Was what killers were using that whole time and it was a crap show and the last straw for me and so I left. Idk if thats what you are referring to when you mentioned the meta perks for killer at that time but those were enough for me to quit permanent.
oh btw really nice billy matches , there were some good snipes in them
thanks they will probably end up in another monthly compilation xD
@@rogueroentgenNoice
i started playing in 2020 and have played 60/40 killer/survivor before mmr i got to red ranks with mid tier killers like clown. never in my time have i said i liked the way the game was sure there a few things i liked in older versions but i knew they where changed for the better. there are times like with the twins in the PTB where it is OVER tuned but those are rare
the live release is even worse, with servers committing every 30 seconds xD
i wasn't there when it was still the old dbd. I'm sometimes sad i wasn't but that's just cause then we could have fangirled over the Leg way sooner 😂
it's ok, we have all the time ahead xD
@@rogueroentgenyes that is true 😌
I think a good example is fortnite, everyone collectively became better so trying to hop in and play a quick match became a lot more painful because you’re gonna get shit on if you dont know the 1007383837 techs to buliding and editing and / or if you dont have 0 ping ur also screwed. Dbd isnt fun when a billy bounces back and forth on a hooked survivor at 5 gens, but doing that as the billy creates so much pressure on everyone else its like why wouldnt you do that because now they either have to save before second stage and risk either trading or giving another hook, or just let them die on hook to do gens
and the hooked survivor in both situations is just sitting there unable to do anything, one for 30 seconds and the other for a whole minute
yeah! I totally get it. As killer you are like "why would I relent" because you know if you do they most likely have the capability to bounce back tenfolds from the inch you gave them, and as survivor why would you do anything except sitting on gens and playing optimally? But it comes with the game being this old and having this many guides/examples.
It's also the reason why I'll never do a winstreak.
I think most people that bring up this argument are just nostalgic, I confess I also found the game more fun back then (as a killer main) but I just miss the old times. It was good to have my friends and be able to play the game all day with them. and also today the game got kinda boring to me because I played it multiple times and it just got to repetitive, sure if the game was like this back then I would enjoy it even more but I cannot help but to miss the old DBD once I see the old graphics or an old video xD
Agreed! Nostalgia is a big factor and I think just seeing one of the old maps can bring the feelings back. A lot of people can't separate their feelings for a better, past time when the game was fresh and their friends were always playing from the game actually being better - and I think that's where the entire issue lays
First great video and topic.
As someone whos been here since year 4 I’ve seen both things change. Killer was most definitely worse back in the day. I just played it anyway. But that’s why survivor queues were awful.
I do mildly disagree with the MMR part. I think it’s more nuance than you give it. Not saying I want babies. That would be absolutely boring. It’s more that mmr brought the game to a more sweaty place overall. Making it feel bad to run fun builds. I still do and sometimes it feels AWFUL. Though that’s the game.
Ive had to really take a step back and not try to win every game like I used to. As an ex competitor in sports, and esports it was hard to do this. I enjoy dbd so much I hate getting so easily pissed at it for simply losing.
I still fight tilt every so often, and when I do I have to take a break. But I always call myself out that I’m a sweaty killer. Even if I don’t run “meta”
Thanks for your comment! Honestly, I'm jealous - I cannot get tilted even if I tried (and I was thinking about putting my undefeatable chillness to community service by explaining how I do it), and I find a (healthy) amount of feelings in that direction to be nice and adding to the experience - I wish I could feel that way sometimes xD
but it's honestly commendable that you know you can get tilted, that it can be problematic for you and you know how to step away. It's ok to be sweaty, and knowing that you are - there's nothing wrong with putting your heart into something, and as much as I care for the game and being better I just... don't get pissed. Ever. Idk why.
About MMR - the point is not the invisible number imho, because it is, well, invisible. You could be winning or losing 100 games in a row, you would have nothing to show for it. I think on one side people got better over time, and that of course made the average match sweatier, but also people saw because of that how little they had to do to win a bit more, to be slightly better than the other side - the red queen paradox.
Give it years, and we get survivors never leaving gens and killers tunneling anyone that doesn't hold checkspots like they were their fiancee every game.
im 300h in and i love my xeno to death~
but the only reason i keep on playing isn't bcz it's a fun game...
it's just that i have a stubborn personality...
why do you find it not fun? I'm very curious
and love for Xenokitty
@@rogueroentgen ow i am having a lot of fun~
but for a newbie it's more frustration than fun overall cuz it's not beginner-friendly at all haha but i do get a lot of help from ppl in my chat and stuff, but It's still not cool having to look outside of the game for everything ya need :D
@@SleepyMockiii absolutely wish the tutorials were better. I also had to look up a lot of stuff back in the days and I can see why some people may lose interest quickly
Another thing is that you are talking a lot about winning and losing, and that's exactly the wrong mindset to have in dbd, the real way to win is to do something different and just have fun with it, even if you lose.
this exact mindset is why I don't have an issue with mmr. I still get to bring my fun builds into the game and have some fun moments in the game. do I lose more games with those fun builds because of mmr? yes, but that doesn't matter, since wins isn't what I'm going after. my goal is to have fun and to get value from silly builds, or to get some good moments when I'm playing as killer (like getting snipes with artist), and i can still get those, even if I don't win
I am talking about winning and losing because that's what a lot of people care about. As I (again) said in the video, I don't care about losing, otherwise I wouldn't play dozens of matches as perkless m1 killers
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Iron Grasp + Agitation + Machine Gun on Trapper was unironically the most fun i've had with DBD. Being able to hard counter sabotage with being able to carry people over the entire map to basement always felt satisfying. I'm tired of you new joiners trying to say it was copium thinking something more chaotic and busted isn't as fun as some watered down boring garbage patch version of the same game.
Oh yes machine gun, the famous perk us newbies with 2k hours have never heard about
@@rogueroentgen Hours isn't a metric for how long people have been playing for, anymore. I'm at over 3k since 2016 cause there's alot of other games I want to play. That being said I didn't say anything about people not knowing what the old metas/glitches were i'm simply saying that era was fun as hell and now it isn't.
Ye i can tell how fun old dbd was. I download the game. played 10 games on huntress because big muscle mommy got stomp by way better players for most of my games and then just quit for a long time. Just a horrible experience for new players, if you have a problem with mrr being to sweaty, maybe you are the problem. I do miss old dh, just loved having extra movement options on suv, but ye deserved nerf.
Old dh was memey sometimes but when it was used to make it to a loop or dh through a trap it really made me wanna bonk the screen :D
omg, the dbd update just dropped too. get ready for me to abuse the 5 second ds
how did the abuse go lmao
you can ds stun at lockers and combo it into head on again, i love it
I don't think you don't realise how much "Bullshit" both killers and survivors had back in the day, Iridescent mori could kill a survivor after 1 hook, Instant healing without syringe, locker flashlight saving, camping basement and hooks, Instantly killing a survivor off hook because base-kit BT didn't exist, decisive strike lasting forever and being unable to be deactivated, old pain resonance having infinite uses, old pop goes the weasel, call of brine + overcharge + eruption combo, old circle of healing boon, and killer was definitely more fun before as well, Sky billy has been removed, sky demo is also gone, hug Teching is harder now and supposedly getting removed soon,
Ruin + undying + surveillance + Pop meta which allowed killers to literally not worry about gens at all an just focus on chase all game, which 100% made playing killer an extreme amount more fun cause instead of being worried about gens all game you could actually just play the game and go for chases.
So don't say the game wasn't more fun for killers back then, ESPECAILLY when you didn't even play the game then, In fact I would argue you don't have a say in this subject BECAUSE you didn't play then, but its still nice to hear the opinion of someone who wasn't there, a fresh look on the whole situation is lovely.
I was there to experience all of it since early 2020 so yes I am definitely a bit biased but I can also see that the direction the game has taken is not healthy for anyone what so ever.
the first thing I said in the video is literally that I was there pre 6.1 so yeah, I was there :) I surely didn't play since the beta, but it has been over 2 years :)
@@rogueroentgen My bad, Idk exactly when 6.1 started, don't keep track
@@wyzlight2028i also said when it happened. You simply did not pay any attention and still felt entitled to speak, as most people do.
@@rogueroentgen There is nothing restricting me from speaking my mind, as such I have done so, if you have a problem with that maybe you should turn off comments.
@@wyzlight2028 surely I should be the one turning off comments, instead of you listening to the actual video before commenting ong.
Nah dbd didn't get worse in the 6.1 update it got bad already after the first major graphics update when they removed the snappy survivor movement, the game was more fun because it was so stupid, there was so many bugs and dumb things you could do, like we weren't restricted by realism or balance, It was just like a playground with no rules where the only objective was to have fun, we were more careless, we just played the game to have fun, now the only way to have fun is to win, I cannot tell you how many times I have lost a game and still had fun, now that doesn't happen anymore cause both killers and survivors just optimize and play into the meta that the devs have created to be competitive, instead of having been created to be fun.
I was talking about this exactly with a friend - what do you think was the reason for this change tho?
@@rogueroentgen My genuine best guess is that the devs are actually just stupid, which is sad but true.
@@wyzlight2028
Or they wanted to balance the game.
@@aroace7913 And look what balance brought us, boring matches where everyone just optimize and don't do anything other than trying to win despite how many possibilities and fun ways there are to play dbd.
This video needs to be linked to the Wikipedia article for an example of Strawman fallacy. This is hilariously unhinged lmao
Ya I agree. The whole spiel about old Deadhard creating an “accessibility issue” made absolutely no sense. I was and still am a survivor main who only plays killer when none of my friends are on. The fact that she cites old Deadhard as being broken because she couldn’t tell if she got spun or Deadharded is legitimately one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Idk how she as a killer main couldn’t discern whether it was Deadhard or a spin, but to me her whole argument just sounds like a big giant skill issue. Only recently have I started actually prestiging and playing killer seriously, and there’s a problem if somebody like me can consistently get 3-4 Ks. The game is not meant to be balanced by nature just reset it to let every survivor perk be at its strongest (while not breaking the game) and let every kill perk be reset to its strongest too.
Lmfao and I also loved the complaining about BBQ n Chili vs We’re Gonna Live Forever😂😂 Obviously she didn’t know we’re gonna live forever paled in comparison to the boost you’d get from BBQ n Chili, which was easier to use in general n just offered more BP
@@cruzujfalusy6474 Most survivor veterans almost exclusively play killer these days. The overwhelming majority of the survivor playerbase is the influx of new players who come after a content drop, but leave very quickly once they realize that Survivor is literally just a punching bag for killers to get their rocks off. I've been playing since 2017 and was a killer main for years until after 6.1 when I finally switched over to survivor. Call me crazy, but winning almost every game by default became extremely monotonous and unfun. I haven't even touched this game for over 6 months now. Not sure I ever will again. I'm increasingly seeing Survivor content creators announcing their departure from the game citing the game is horrible for their mental health. I don't blame them and is the main reason I stopped playing myself. Skill expression has almost been completely removed from the game, and the game is HEAVILY geared towards below average killers to dominate matches with extremely low effort. It's why you get such insanely delusional takes like this video. A bad killer who feels extremely entitled to win every single match they play, and if they lose one, regardless of any factors and no accountability for their own mistakes, just means survivor is OP. I mean you just had a dude go on a 1900+ win streak with blight, which was finally ended by some stream snipers and he through a tantrum like a child and suggested the game was extremely unfair for killer. I mean how delusional can the killer community get? Well, I'm glad they're finally getting the game they wanted. Idk who they're going to play it with, but congratulations I guess. People with 10k+ hours are now completely abandoning the game.
@@cruzujfalusy6474old dead hard problematic since it could basically make you invincible. You loop the killer, killer hits you and you make distance, killer gives up and you mend, rinse and repeat. It was objectively unbalanced, but making it usable only twice per trial was admittedly overkill, still how would balance a literal 3rd health state? That's perhaps the biggest dilemma
@@cruzujfalusy6474they simply stated that BBQ and Chili is not a free perk, and that u had to buy a dlc first and then gain bps to unlock it for all killers. So it was even harder for killer since u had to buy a dlc first and David has always been free
MMR sucks, the devs should remove it.
Why ?
So you can stomp beginners ?
@@aroace7913 Yes, every once in a while I Want a chill game where I can think to myself "this guy is dead on hook I won't kill him" I'm tired of the same sweaty lobbies over and over, its not fun, if I don't use the most metal build every game then I just lose and then there's nothing more to it, It really is either sweat or lose and that isn't the game I want to play, games are supposed to be fun, sure winning a sweaty match can be fun but when every single match is just the same sweaty situation over and over then what is the point? I want variation, and I wanna be able to go into a match and not know what to expect of the survivors, right now as it stands if I load up a killer game I already know I am gonna face a swf with 4 adrens and 4 dead hards and etc, who are gonna gen rush and play optimally, where is the fun in knowing what you are gonna play against, let alone actually playing against that knowing how not fun it will be because I am just trying to enjoy myself but I can't because it feels like I am forced to face the exact same swf team over and over and very very rarely miraculously get a game that might cause me slightly less stress than Usually, a healthy game is a game where sometimes you have easy matches, and sometimes you have very hard ones, not just the same over and over, the game would be just as boring if the only survivors I faced was new players, just getting free wins over and over and not having to actually try would get very boring and dry as well, its not about noob stomping or not wanting a tough match, its about having a balanced game where sometimes you can have unexpected different experiences and not just the same exact match over and over.
"it's cool to see yourself in a videogame" literally why I play artist, or any game with a character creator that isn't awful (like Elden Ring for example. One of my favorite games, but god, that character creator sucks)
I didn't even know that people didn't like the 6.1.0 patch. It was mostly a positive in my opinion (ironically, the 6.1.0 dead hard was actually stronger than the old dead hard). But the reason I didn't know that people don't like 6.1.0 (aside from me not being active in communities), is because I've been hearing "old dbd was more fun" even before 6.1.0 (I started playing in 2021 during the twins chapter for reference).
About the MMR, I have absolutely no issues with it. Maybe I'm just lucky with where I am, but I still get a wide spectrum of players, and I personally also have trouble identifying when someone tryhards in dbd. Like, of course you have the ftp + buckle up and background player teams, and sometimes they are tryhards, but sometimes they're just having a goof with their friends. I don't know that, so I don't ever take it seriously. But I have to admit, my experience with MMR has to be taken with a bit of salt. I have 0 issues with DBD's MMR, but that might be because the game I played before DBD was Apex Legends, which had the most awful matchmaking I ever experienced. So maybe it's not that DBD's MMR is fine like I think it is, maybe my expectations for a good MMR are just in the gutter.
Trust me DBD's MMR is god awful...you can lose 20 times in a row and still be paired with thousands of hours tryhards. But sometimes the exact opposite happens...
Yeah it's an inconsistent mess. I wish they'd remove it entirely
yeah, i might just be desensitized to it because of apex legends then. in that game it wasn't just losing 20 games in a row, it was losing for multiple seasons in a row. going from a 2.25kd before the implementation of skill-based matchmaking, all the way to a 0.9kd multiple seasons later, and still consistently getting opponents who are in the top 1% fighting for leaderboard spots, even with my kd ratio being negative and my win rate being at like 2%
@@faded7217 I am also biased towards the fact that I don't really care for winning, I wanna play a good match and do well, but if I lose because I spent 10 minutes chasing Kekso (that actually happened once) I have no problem accepting the skill issue on my side xD
There is also the fact that things were "always better before" but it's just nostalgia bias, in most cases. Especially when money are involved, people producing something will ALWAYS make it better and more palatable.
I'm glad you find THIS community pleasant enough to participate, your comments always offer a lot of interesting inputs for me!
awww, how sweet
i think the only thing that would make me say "old dbd was better" is if they somehow ruin artist
Ok
Dbd never was fun
Based
Yeah nah, sorry to be that guy, but old dbd was better by a mile, yes it was more unbalanced, that's what made it fun in the 1st place tho, nowadays they're removing skill expression and all the fun for balance and I'm not a big fan of this, look at what they did to the shop... this is not the same game anymore it's just a money making machine atp
Especially after what they did to my poor blight, it feels so miserable to crutch on double iris, run 4 slowdowns and play optimal bump logic, he's even stronger but all the fun is gone it's just miserable
And I don't think that most things were that broken in comparison tbh, or at least less fun to verse then ftp buckle up or backgroundplayer, personally I think most stuff were just fine and even if they would've been more busted, they were at least more fun to verse and allowed more counterplay then the bs they run today
Oh yes getting ds'd 15 seconds into a match or moried on the spot was so much better than buckle up, so true
@@rogueroentgen not the stone age version ofc, I agree that those things deserve to be gone, but around 2020 it was just perfect with old dh etc, if you genuinely think the current state of survivor perks and blight not beeing able to hug tech anymore is fun, I just have to disagree sorry
@@rogueroentgen them dropping pay to win skins and updating the shop, removing skill expression and holding hands with bad or average players, just because they will be paying the most money as the majority is just sad to see and deff not what dbd used to be
The game used to be different and some people preferred it that way, it's not cope, it's an opinion.
oh but this is not about personal preference but about some very specific arguments people bring along. If you preferred old dbd because of the movement or the lightings or similar stuff sure, that's completely valid. I also think old og realms looked better.