Jon Talks White Resentment w/ Isabel Wilkerson | The Problem With Jon Stewart Podcast | Apple TV+
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- Опубликовано: 28 ноя 2024
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Jon is joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and best-selling author Isabel Wilkerson to discuss race, and America’s caste system, and why there isn’t a singular solution to racism.
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This lady is a gem. And thanks John for booking her and getting the word out.
so many well said comments
While everyone is deceived on distractions this administration is regulating poverty on America and our American businesses
Lol.
Jon is a limousine liberal
No clue
@ctwwtc this is all twisted Tulsi said it the democrats have become the racists they claim to hate
@@ctwwtc8761 maybe he is, but ideas are the beginning of wisdom!
This book made me cry. It is my family's story. Nobody truly understands the number of barriers that the class system really places on groups. It is the variety of impacts that are lifelong. It is really about the very powerful staying on top at ALL costs.
Actually somebody does, and they’re running for president in 2024. The channel I’m commenting from is dedicated to the campaign. I recommend watching any of the videos there especially the one titled resources: the battle for independence. You can get to the channel by double clicking the icon next to this comment
Yeah, ouch.
That's awful. I'm so sorry. Makes me physically ill just imagining what you and your family have been through.
My ancestors have never felt lest than human and I am a direct descendent of slaves. I was born in 1949 in the Deep South and was taught that no one was better than me. They create a bubble around us and by the time we were grown we was able to move forward within society. We were landowners beginning in1866 and were separated for over 50 years from daily interaction with whites, on a Sea Island of SC. Perhaps that is it.
ABSOLUTELY TRUMPS BEEN SAYING THAT FOR YEARS.DRAIN THE SWAMP TRUMP 2024
Wow, "depending on what you looked like, you could be property or own property." Professor's words gave me chills.
Wow I get what she's saying, she is brilliant, hopefully the government and Congress are listening, they just might learn something, like that old house and figure out on how to fix it, metaphor for a right solution to the issue in this country..
This is superb! I have a degree in Urban Planning and it required a lot of classes on racism, but none of the issues talked about on this show were ever mentioned. My eyes continue to be opened. Thank you, we need to look in this mirror in order for all of us to heal ❤️
Thank you. I am thinking about urban plannning since I have gotten enthralled by the RUclips channels called "Not Just Bikes" and :Strong Towns".
We need to stop fooling ourselves that racism happened by accident, rather than by design.
Not by design?
Can you say?
George Washington’s slave ownership
Thomas Jefferson’s slave ownership
Also his ‘Notes on the State of Virginia’
Slave patrols
1705 Virginia’s Casual Killing Act
1740 Negro Act or the Slave Codes
1740 Virginia bans education of black slaves
3/5 clause in the Constitution
Southern institution of slavery
State’s Rights (…freedom to oppress & kill black slaves, without impunity)
1820 Missouri Compromise
Missouri bans Education for Black people
1830 States make it illegal to marry between White people and Black people
1847 Mississippi floating education created to avoid state laws
1854 Elizabeth Jennings (Rosa Parks of NYC)
1859 Oregon state constitution
1863 State miscegenation laws (prohibiting interracial marriage)
1870 Civil Rights Act
Story of Frederick Douglass
1870 Reconstruction (NOT)
1873 Colfax Massacre
1898 Ida B. Wells (investigation of lynching)
Jim Crow era
‘The Negro Problem'
History of W.E.B. Dubois
History of boxer Jack Johnson
1890 - 1924 Eugenics movement
1920 Ocoee Massacre
1921 Tulsa Massacre
1924 Racial Integrity Act
The Story of Paul Robeson
The New Deal (which excluded Black folks)
The Story of Billie Holiday
The Scottsboro Boys
History of Jackie Robinson
History of Jesse Owens
History of Joe Louis
History of Thurgood Marshall
The Groveland Boys
1944 Desegregation of the U.S. Military
(…but nearly 100 yrs later, we are still celebrating ‘Firsts’??)
The G.I. Bill or affirmative action for White people
1949 Federal Housing Act (Redlining)
Athena Davis
History of Hank Aaron
History of Joe Louis “The Brown Bomber”
1954 Brown vs Education
1955 Story of Emmett Till
1956 Rosa Parks
History of the Civil Rights Movement
1960 New Orleans Four (Ruby Bridges) 1960 Axe Handle Riot of Jacksonville FL
1960s Zoot Suit Riots in LA
1961 Freedom Riders (Bus)
1963 Murder of Medgar Evers
1963 MLK Arrest in Birmingham Campaign
1963 Birmingham Church Bombing
1963 Malcom X
1963 MLK March on Washington DC
1964 Freedom Summer Mississippi
1964 Fannie Lou Hamer, Democratic National Convention
1964 Civil Rights Act
1965 Selma March on the Pettus Bridge
1965 Voting Rights Act
1968 Black Panther Party
1968 Story of Eldridge Cleaver “Soul On Ice”
1968 The Kerner Commission Report (…root recommendations were ignored)
1969 Fred Hampton assassination
1971 COINTELPRO FBI covert operations against political groups revealed since 1956
MLK March in Evanston, IL
1968 Fair Housing Act
Muhammad Ali
1970 Story of Arthur Ashe
1970 Stereotyping Black quarterbacks in football
1980s Chicago Mayor Harold Washington
2017 “Color of Law” Federal Housing History of Racial Segregation
2017 Trump election back-to-back to Obama
2022 Confirmation of first Black woman to Supreme Court
2022 State legislation which aims to protect the mythology (fantasy) of the past of U.S. History, by banning discussion of a VIEWPOINT to discover what REALLY happened!
The pattern and trend of racism in the United States is clearly and undeniably…
by design.
Do "urban planners" revitalize all areas/neighborhoods of underprivileged citizens? Many (most, all?) major cities have various ethnicities that tend to b predominant in certain areas of a given city...ie Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. I think its Boston, Charlestown, is a very old area of Boston, predominantly poor, working class. Most all large cities r divided up, self segregated if u will, w/ poor amongst all ethnicities. Do they revitalize all poor neighborhoods? I know of some instances of building new housing buildings, cleaning an area up, improving/expanding public transportation, improve/update infrastructure, revitalizing the schools in the area, building new parks/green spaces...is this done in all poor neighborhoods?
And what about the underprivileged of rural communities? I know feds/state contribute to urban revitalization/improvements for the impoverished, underprivileged, r there ever any efforts to improve the lives of poor rural communities? For example, places like Harlan Co, KY, the poorest county in the country for years, almost everyone is below the poverty line...does the govt, state or fed, ever go in & help those folks revitalize/update their homes, build/provide public housing units, improve/expand public transportation so folks can get to/from work easier, build new schools, parks, improve/update infrastructure, etc?
@@stephanied143 yes although for the rural communities there are often not urban planners (because there isnt the money) but there may be "regional" planners working for a larger area. One, of a few, major goals of these planner should be addressing underprivileged.
The fact you learnt so much about racism during urban planning classes shows how useless your urban planning classes were. We are screwed if people like you actually end up in planning
48 year old German here: I learned about the Holocaust three times at school. We read books about Jews who were hiding or fleeing or got rescued in German class. The message was always clear: never again. My parents were born during WWII and I 30 years after it ended. I fully support the reparations we paid and all the statues that remind us about the atrocities of our history. And I also fully support our „constitution“, where you‘ll find in article 1, paragraph 1 the words: "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority." We learned some lessons from our history and I am happy about it.
Yes and the difference with the USA is that we never reckoned with these atrocities. Wilkerson mentioned that Germany thought that the US was too harsh… here is where skin color makes a difference because here in the USA and in North America it becomes easier to strip away the humanity of those who don’t look like you. The caste and diabolical nature of slavery and Jim Crow becomes justifiable through science and through other studies
Exactly.
Except you haven't. Germany has a big problem with fascism, racism, xenophobia (immigration) and is represented in your political parties, like the AfD, CDU, EPP, etc.
@@jaym5938 Absolute nonsense, you've never been to Germany, so more than likely you're talking out of arse. Yes there are pockets of fascism Nazism everywhere, even in Israel. America is one of the most rapidly racist countries on the planet. America has killed more black people than any other country on the planet.
@@jaym5938 every country has a problem with the things you mentioned, even more so in the United States (ironic in a country founded on liberty and personal freedom). The difference, however, and the point you seemed to have missed, is that Germany has made, and continues to work against the things you mentioned.
For example, other than Turkey, Germany takes in the most refugees then any other country in the world due in part to their well known comprehensive welfare system. The principle of which is enshrined in the law, committing to protect in addition to their freedom, the natural bases of life of its citizens. They’ve outlawed nazi symbolism and have dedicated countless historical sites as memorials to the victims of WWII. They make a conscious effort to remember and teach every generation about the atrocities they committed, something we in the United States lack.
TL;DR except they have.
Great "old house" analogy Dr. Wilkerson! I enjoyed this conversation. We need more dialogue like this.
I also appreciate the metaphor and like the way she ties it to responsibility for repairing the issue even if you didn't create it. I haven't finished watching the whole video, but the old house idea makes me think about how some groups are never even allowed out of the basement, and some are upstairs denying that there are any rusty pipes because they won't go down to the basement to check. After all, the TV told them the pipes are just fine. I don't think it's easy to change the laws, but it's probably easier than changing that 400 years of societal conditioning.
Great analogy on the old house.
I am on board with the analogy. But I still can’t find the answer here. It’s still so vague. So there are no official racial laws in place now, so step 1 is done. Do we give preferential hiring based on your skin colour and not your competency? I would hate to get a job because of my skin colour
@@nathangarnham5467 If 100 yr old Blacks Asians Hispanics couldn't even have jobs in their youth, then your and my grandfathers got their jobs based solely on...???
You magaturds really are something less, a lot less!
@@nathangarnham5467 No you wouldn't , you live with it rignt now, youre perpetuating it, by your apologia, you have it fine now , it works for you, you dont want to take steps agaimst it,
Youre on board", in spite of your self-deluding rhetoric!
Isabel Wilkerson, she is an amazing orator and philosophy. I hope she gets into politics because she has amazing ideas.
I don't she's doing monumental without that influence. It's the powers that be that are the reason she's successful, if you get my drift.
Agreed. 🥰🥰💝💝🎉🎉🦋🦋
It is absolutely necessary for these ideas to extinguish our current form of politics. Our current form of politics is what perpetuates this system. So, in that sense, I hope she doesn't get into it, but how else are you going to dismantle it. It has to be from the inside out.
No, don't get involved in politics. That would be a waste.
Thank goodness I can watch your program too! I need all the sane discussions I can get. No screaming and fear-mongering, just calm explorations to better understand.
❤
The old house metaphor is perfect. I think one of the biggest hurdles in solving this, is there are 350 million of us living in this house and 90% of us are pointing the finger at who's responsible for the repairs. It's going to take all of us recognizing our own personal role in mending this scar.
I think atrocities are still happening but it just change the target population. After our last presidency, I never felt like I did them. I felt bad for my kids and would ask them to identify to their dads race instead of mine. How can you not point fingers if it’s not a past it’s a present for some
Don't forget the narrative that's been put out here in public to TV and newspapers in the media we always have wars what a waste of resources
@@andretobias2439 what narrative is that?
@@democracianoesgratis MA'AT HOTEP ( PEACE)
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WE ARE AT WARRRRRR MELANATED FAMILIES ACROSS DA DIESPORA BIG UP URSELVES FROM MENTAL SLAVERY 1LUV AND LIVING IN FEAR KNOW THYSELVE
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MINDING MY BEAUTIFUL AFRIKAN BUSSINESS AND DRINKING WATER TRUE DAT FAMILY KEEP ON KEEPING IT REAL TALK 1OO AND SOME MORE NUFF RESPECT BLISSING
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@@papacheezie2838 Im not 100% sure of all that you said there. But I’m not at war with anyone Sir. And read respect and that is an international language. So likewise
Those of us who live in an old house know for sure how one must be constantly working on it. And that part of her analogy is so true. We will never be "done."
Particularly because the house was built on stolen lands.
Thank you Dr. Wilkerson for your comments and reasoning. Love your podcasts, John Stewart, you are a National Treasure. Continued success to you, and to Dr. Wilkerson.
This was the most important,informative,open dialogue I have EVER experienced! It covered so much I had to watch it numerous times and my mind is still wrapping around ideas, ideology and history that they talked about. This is why Jon Stewart needs to be a part of our media. He is so intelligent and open and talks to people equally stellar! AMAZING!
The solution that they are looking for is what the Blue Cross Movement is. If you double click the icon next to this comment to get to the channel and review the video titled resources: the battle for independence, you’ll understand completely.
Agree. I also see the domestic redistribution of power and its ramifications in this light.
@@francesslubik5677 very very true!
Open dialogue but if you people ain't going to do no better how can it change
@@toneyingram732 you people?
"Caste" needs to be required reading starting in middle school. This is the best explanation of structural racism I've seen. Everyone needs to pick up this book!
Can you explain “structural racism”?
Yeah because its exactly what is happening to poor whites in America. Completely force them from being a part of anytime by law. Zero federal help in rural areas as well.
The cursed GQP won’t allow enlightenment!
@@loyaltyisroyalty5616 Listen to this discussion and it will become clear. Or read Prof. Wilkerson's book, "Caste".
@@loyaltyisroyalty5616 we can’t do all the work for you. Listen, read, study and open your mind.
This Doctor is so intelligent , more people need to listen to her.
Nothing Earth-shaddering came out of this conversation. Good history class though.
@@RobertSmith-up9rz Bit it's important to discuss, as they both note that Germany does. White Americans refuse to take a hard look at this country, daily. These conversations must take place for any change to occur.
Are white people allowed to read it?
I like how she compared society to a house. It's kinda sad that she had to remove humans to make her point but it makes sense.
@@RobertSmith-up9rz In fact, Robert Smith, it is earth “shaddering” how our educational system continues to fail us. Ironically, we’d have to be educated to know just how ignorant we are.
I love the analogies of both the ‘old house’ and an addiction like alcoholism- because, that’s pretty much where we’re at and you can’t deny it. ‘Nope, you didn’t build that house- but, you bought/inherited it’ and ‘there is no magic fix: it’s a daily effort to make progress. For many, it’s a challenge so great- but they acknowledge the effort is a journey. Beautiful.
It’s a convenient denial…
By that I mean, they can pretend…
that they are not benefiting from it.
Like ‘We don’t see color.’
Ms. Isabel Wickerson is an amazing human being! 😮 She figures out and convincingly explains some of the questions I have pondered most of my life. I am ready to vote for her for anything she cares to do. Thank you John for having her on your show. I will buy or borrow her books and follow her through her life. Thank you and God bless both of you.😊❤
She's full of good analogies. Stefan Banach (a great but not well known mathematician) said "Good mathematicians see analogies between theorems. Great mathematicians see analogies between analogies." She sees the connections between an old house, a person with a pre-existing condition, and our country's racial history. Listening to her reminds me of listening to really good math teachers: she explains the same thing in different ways and explains how the different ways are really the same.
Vibing with you making an analogy about the analogies...
Perfectly said.. there's nothing like a great storyteller. It makes the truth even more compelling.
What grace this professor has talking about these atrocities. I will read that book even though I am from Canada because this is a human issue and it is happening here as well. Thank you for this interview.
Yeah, I agree, and I'm also Canadian. I was in grade school when the Canadian flag still had the British union jack in the corner. The British Empire was no less presumptive or cruel, they just abolished slavery a little earlier. These same arrogant and dominant attitudes (The Doctrine of Discovery) led to the multitude of problems experienced by indigenous people in Canada and the US as well as the human tragedy that is the story of US slavery. It's all a complex history of suffering and poor decisions based on bad assumptions and outright cruelty. All we can do now is try to clean up the mess. It's sad to see people actively fighting against that.
As an American who always hears how perfect, united, and all around unracist Canada is, I’d really love to hear Canadians talk about the issue. (PS. Also a black woman).
@@deaunnathomas6485 - If I gave you that idea about Canada, I'm sorry. If someone else did, they're wrong. Yes, I'd rather live here than in the US, but Canada is imperfect, diverse in opinion and yes, there are racists. But I think it's getting better. 40+ years ago, when I was in my teens, I remember hearing the words "drunken Indian" more than I want to admit. I personally was brought up by intelligent parents who taught us to respect everyone as a person and not judge their appearance or circumstance. My Grandmother worked as a nurse in the residential school system during the 1920s and 1930s, when the churches were committing atrocities on indigenous people. She was a good-hearted person who also extolled the value of people regardless of what they looked like, so I wonder what she knew about what was going on around her then. She was a smart woman and had to have noticed something. I live in the west, so I haven't had a lot of interaction with black people. Mostly Asian and South Asian and some Native Peoples. I'm rambling, but one point I want to make is that there is now a conversation going on here between governments and indigenous tribal people and their rights, freedoms and what they are due. A conversation by people in charge on both sides who I believe have the best interests of the other side in mind as well as their own. That's what it takes to move these issues along - genuine caring and understanding by all and a commitment to the truth, no matter how ugly it is to look at. Hopefully that will also change biases and racism in our society, though for some, there's really no hope.
Idk man, Canada did worse shit to some of it's people.
@@johnspooner1403 ...Well u just totally dismissed the efforts "to clean up the mess" made by countless British soldiers...not to mention the monumental effort & cost the British Empire put into ending the world slave trade. U still disparaged them despite their efforts. Clearly, it will never b enough & advocacy & allyship is never reciprocated.
When I was about 13, in 1939, I remember it was the first time it occurred to me that we were an ungenerous people. I became aware of how little welfare we gave the least fortunate among us. I understood that it was an adequate amount in not a single state. I understood that we shamed people for needing such help. I understood that we destroyed their human dignity by demanding that they prove their need by allowing us to search their homes, for example, for any evidence of a male in residence. If there was a man living there, it was assumed that we - the government - were being cheated since there was someone living in that household that could support it by working. Later, it was women who were assumed to be committing fraud by having children out-of-wedlock - and then the mud really hit the fan! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😢😡😢😳🤬💩 and this nation calls itself christian! We are a reprehensible species daring to call ourselves exceptional? Shame shame shame! What’s the saying about rising tide lifts all boats!
@@katherinejones850 The US has never called itself Christian.
@@ZenAndPsychedelicHealingCenter the US didn't, but the very ones promoting that evil....DID call themselves good Christians!
Sho you right!..
Great comment!
I’ve learned as a dark skin black woman you are more conscious of this behavior because the experience is still so real in your life. You experience almost every day. It comes from many different aspects. Even from your own tribe.
Exactly! 💯
I've learned as a white man who was one of those "everyone's the same, I don't see myself as white but as human" that I was completely and utterly wrong.
My ancestors 70 years ago were correct.
My ancestors 150 years ago were correct.
White people didn't teach me this.
The other races taught me this.
@nonono9194 Really? No white person, including your family and friends, EVER told you that you were better than the people who looked different from you? EVER? I find that hard to believe.
@@lenoreswan7210 not once, no. Your racism and hatred for whites is showing by your prejudicial views.
"We cannot be trusted" - that's the educated insight and humility every person needs when organizing human societies.
That's right. They don't think WE, as citizens, know enough about what is going on therefore, "we cannot be trusted" to make good decisions. WTF?
What if I identified as someone who can be trusted?
I was equally struck by that statement. As a person who is vehemently against the death penalty, it really hit home.
Wow dark cynical and Direct... Fits with my Life experience.. we are destroying our only Planet and whistling a happy song of denial..
we are killing in the name of a version of God which Love would never agree to.
If any Human was transported to a country where this person is in the subjugated caste.. would they get it... Be horrified by their own actions or deny deny deny?
@@shefchenko111 no one can nor should be entrusted with that choice. And we have *the whole of human recorded history* to back that up. So you ofc can identify as someone who can be entrusted, but that will not change the fact you cannot.
Jacob Rea made a good point. I think the "old house" analogy needs to be the way to teach history forever (not just the history of racism, either). OMG, so perfect.
I liked that analogy as well but I started to wonder if those at the top would use that analogy in the same way she is.
@@RW-ws9dp i would be surprised if they don't
@@RW-ws9dp "Our house had nothing wrong until we said termites were equal to the owners and they started to eat at our foundations"." From a Farcical Opinionated Xenophobic noise fan.
There is only racism.
@@dleet86 Thats hilarious and deserved
I read both of her books last year, I'm so glad he has finally had a conversation with her! I recommend her books constantly. They are both necessary.
Very shallow "scholarship."
@@edwinamendelssohn5129Pulitzer Prize winning decade-long research is "shallow?" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 move along.
Thank you
@@inqvmnd scholarship examines history and learns from facts. History doesn't start ideologically and wrap "history" around that ideology.
Perhaps narrow is a better word than shallow. One narrow lens rather than many lenses. If she claims the USA was founded on slavery then she would have to say that then entire world was founded in slavery as slavery has been practiced for thousands of years. That would ruin her narrative.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 have you even read "The Warmth of Other Suns"?
Jon Stewart & his guests are the ultimate teachers of our time!
Lol…incorrect.
Her metaphors are on POINT! When will the country as a whole learn this?
Thank you Jon and Dr. Sister! When I was teaching Black history I wish I'd had your i nput to relate to my students.
The nazi story is the answer to why America is afraid to teach real history. Chattel slavery was too far for even nazis.
Well as a person living in India and, the caste system is much worse than the racism in America, also isn't comparing these two things dehumanizing the people, I mean no one compares the Bengal Famine and the Holocaust.
But she has a lot of good points so half agree.
My Bible teaches that God,our Creatermade us all of one blood. I am convinced that all peoples need to accept and live by this one truth.
@23rahulgarg10 actually you really must not know the extent of racism against blacks here with that statement.
I read Warmth from cover to cover- scintillating. Prof Wilkerson is beyond brilliant- she is a gift. Caste is nearby, I’m ready to read it. Thanks for this great discussion. It’s humbling. Thanks Jon❤️🙏🏼
THATS FUNNY IM READING CASTE NOW AND AM GOING TO READ WARMTH NEXT! SHE IS A NATIONAL TREASURE
These are the type of conversations that should take place all the time.....No fear , no hate , just speaking the truth about this country's past and present.
BuT aMeRiCa IsnT rEaDy
I am more than ready! 😅
There are places that these conversations do happen all the time. If your live far from a town or University maybe you could start a once a month forum at your library or a local cafe. It would help if a few people sought some ways of keeping people interested in attending follow the same rules of engagement that Mr. Stewart does. Go for it. Publicize it.
Isabelle is so impressive that I, who never get into the commentaries, had to say Thank you for such a logical, even keel and intelligent explanation of our history and what we are really dealing with. Totally yes, yes aha moments for me!
This discussion about Caste by Isabell Wilkerson and Jon Stewart is the BEST! Loved the deep connections and the path to fix it. I read the book over a year ago and will share it with family and friends to revisit it. We need to acknowledge and address our history.
Ms. Wilkerson is a brilliant writer and person - I read both of her books and they both are an excellent must-read!
We are lucky to be alive at the same time as Isabel Wilkerson. Wow.
I'm currently reading Warmth of Other Suns and it's eye opening !!! I had no idea the torture so many had to endure.
As the daughter of parents who were a part of the Great Migration, The Warmth of Other Suns helped me understand my parents journey more than anything they ever directly said about the south or their upbringing.
My parents too! I refer to “The Great Migration” as fleeing domestic terrorism. Truly eye opening!!
"The social construct known as race." I am so grateful for African American educators who have been able to answer my questions about what race is.
Malcolm X's words come to my mind:
"The most disrespected person in America is the black woman.
The most unprotected person in America is the black woman.
The most neglected person in America is the black woman."
Especially if she is a dark-skinned black woman like Dr. Isabel Wilkerson. Look at the gifts she brings to us all. She is the perfect example of not judging a book by its cover. When you give people who look like her opportunity you get a Pulitzer Prize Winner.
The social data does not agree.
The most disrespected, unprotected/vulnerable, and disenfranchised people in America. By the numbers, are Black men and Black boys.
If she was white, nobody would care about what she says. That is the world today, especially in this Democrat bubble.
Well said. 💯
Oh my goddess! What willful ignorance.
💕✊🏾💕✊🏾💕
I CAN RELATE BECAUSE I AM FROM SOUTH AFRICA . GREAT DISCUSION JOHN AND DR. WILKERSON. FEAR IS REALY THE DRIVING FORSE TO KEEP US APPART.
That she is not into titles is BEAUTIFUL! My teacher education professor was like that, she’s always Dr. Baytop to me but she says « my name is Phyllis or Mrs. Baytop », HOWEVER, she also says, you’ve earned the right to your title and it is respect that ppl call you by your title until you give permission otherwise..
Everyone reading this, I LOVE YOU
Excellent conversation. It’s always hard to travel somewhere if one doesn’t know where they are to begin.
Or where they're going.
That's an interesting way to look at it. Some people in Western countries may look at the Indian caste system and think that it's very unfair. But American society isn't really that different, it's just more race-based and in denial of its own system.
Gaslighting and denialism comes in many forms. But historically, this is not new…
“Who is my neighbor?”
Yeah black people are separated by last names and can't rise above hard labor. Literally impossible for black people to be successful and rich. Exactly like India.
The Indian caste system is self-hate on autopilot. Indian women were raped by the same Englishmen that were killing and subjugating Indian men. The resulting lightened offspring were taught to behave as Englishmen which means that they'll behave in racist ways towards other Indians. India leads the world in skin lightening products. That fact alone highlights the self hate that is rampant there. Sad reality is that the lightest Indian will NEVER be accepted as white by the white people they aspire to be.
Caste is the correct way to view it in American context. All American racism is an attempt to enforce a social system with a permanent class of unskilled labourers. Race is used as justification but the motive is economic at its core.
The Indian Caste system was implemented by the British Empire. Since the British “founded” most of this country (after stealing it from the original inhabitants), our caste system was inherited from our forefathers.
Your analogies are so reasonable and really easy to understand and caste / hierarchy fits so much better .. thank you!!
I LOVE this author’s work!!! The Warmth of Other Sons was EXCELLENT!
What a gifted teacher! I love the analogies! (The parable of the Old House - we inherited a lot of these problems, everyone suffers if we don't fix it; the diabetes analogy about the need for continued vigilance; the point about how we do so much to account for blindspots in our cars to make driving safer, and yet we do so little about our cognitive blind spots which can also have very serious consequences).
Interesting and enlightening conversation with this distinguished scholar. She brought up so many things we are absolutely obvlivious of. Great questions. Must buy the book.
One correction. The kid whose stoning started Red Summer in Chicago didn't wade into the white area of the beach. He floated. Just drifted. And yes the city burned. For three days. It's still a scar on the city.
I think she was one of the speakers at the California Reparations task force meeting.
You know there are ten time more stories about white kids getting killed for being in black neighborhoods, right, stupid?
WOW
Watching this interview, was the first time I ever had heard of this.
Tragic is so many, many ways.
@@paulas_lens there was over 100 such incidents like this throughout the country not to mention thousands of individual lynching! My great grandmother witnessed a Black man burned at the stake when she was a child.
This is really amazing……and both of you for recognizing that history DOES NOT stop in 1964. Dr. Wilkerson you're a great comfort for your intelligence; your empathy; and your extraordinary point of view. We are all in this together--yes, absolutely. And yes, we are a body politic. One pill to cure it all would be fantastic. I love this old house metaphor--they start working and it's like opening a can of worms. Bless you and bless you both. And thanks again very much.
Lord have mercy. This was so hard to listen to but worth it. Lord let people listen to this, meditate and pray. This is so sobering.
Wow this was an incredibly interesting conversation I learned a lot thank you so much. it was also moving and very interesting for a non-american to hear about... As a Jewish woman I think the comparison with Hitler's Germany is spot on, race needed to be teach and monitored for it to become a social issue because it's not a natural one.
Well said. And we can practice the act of abolishing "race" by referring to our ethnic adaptations as "ethnicity". The term race automatically creates non-scientific continuation of the myth. Blessings!
Needed to be taught
@@elephanthappiness4502 Yes, "You've got to be carefully taught" - I like James Taylor's version. So sadly true
Wow. I haven't read this book yet, but this interview is making me cry. What an excellent discussion. Thank you.
i am a filipino with lots of relatives in the us. i admire Jon for being so objective and acknowledging the fault of his country'a society advocating social equality for his beloved country. you are a great soul Jon Stewart. kudos to you.
The fact you did not even acknowledge the Isabel is appalling.
You need to check yourself self hating Filipino.
That analogy of the old house is BRILLIANT. Thanks for sharing that, it’s a great frame of mind to look at the past, the present and the future of a country!
I love all of Dr. Wilkerson's practical analogies that make understanding and approaching change logical and accessible if we Americans just see and act through a different lens. The part about the U.S. lacking humility and believing the myth of universal American exceptionalism was so insightful and on point. Thanks. Now it's time to get to work to be ready for demographic shifts BEFORE 2045 to avoid the deep and unsettling consequences of inaction.
I will have to watch this so many more times to understand the depth of this conversation. I’m not American but this is true for European countries just as much.
DO ONE BETTER READ THE BOOK
Great discussion, great conversation. Let this kind of conversation continue. We are going to do this together. There is no need of blaming or name calling it will NEVER help in fixing our world. Thank you lady for raising these conversation, please keep it going.
Extraordinary dialogue! I could listen to these two all day. There are many difficult conversations to be had in this country; this would be a good place to start.
If I had to listen to these two all day, I’d throw up!
@@ninadaly7639 You don’t have to. It’s voluntairy.
@@ericalovemiamibeach5393 I wish.
@@ninadaly7639 Why? Are you paid to monitor this podcast?
@@kathleenlandolt5936 Hmmm. Why would someone HAVE a podcast if they DIDN’T want people to watch it? It’s existence is an INVITATION to watch. And let’s face it, marketing/advertising is insidious. They saturate our consciousness with gimmicks to make us buy, watch, play, go to, vote for, give money to, join, or support. Anyone with the cash can access this racket. The point is, it’s everywhere.
Isabel Wilkerson, in my opinion is one of the best non-fiction authors of our time period.
Agreed
Absolutely, she is.
I have a hundred year old house that I have been working on. I have been thinking recently about how I can apply the sentiment of bettering my house to helping to better society.
And then this awesome interview appeared in my feed!
I cried when Toni Morrison passed away as I felt orphaned but then I adopted Isabel Wickerson as my adapted mum. I am truly in love with this woman.
Wilkerson is incredible. What a great and illuminating discussion. Thank you so much for posting! 💗
She is absolutely a master of metaphor. She brought so many complex ideas to life in such tangible ways.
Yeah you dummy Muricans need everything in 3rd grade learning terms lol
Agreed.
She ignored the caste system of India and immediately deflected.
She's not genuine
“Most people have not had a chance to know how we got to where we are.” This. THIS! When I entered university and went outside the lines and uncovered things just blindly out of curiosity, I mean. Damn. I was pissed. I had a “oh shit” moment that has never ended. The oh shit moment was wtf have I all been taught? How does that make me literally make sense of the world? I was angry because it felt like something was stolen from me, and that thing stolen from me was choice. The choice to figure things out on MY OWN. And that is EXACTLY what this professor is saying. I learned about structural influences and policy and how much of an embarrassment it has been how Americans think of race and racism.
This is easily one of the most in depth conversations regarding America's history and how its so impurities that serious maintenance be done. Every single person in this Country should hear this. Just poignant important remarkable and enlightening conversation. 💯💢💯💢💯
I went to the place where my great grandmother and many other family members were processed in Germany. It was horrible and rage inducing and made me feel sick but it did help me grow as an individual and wish that for everyone else from a people who have been wronged. I do not claim to get intergenerational trauma the way other peoples do but my farther was a bastard and my grandfather, I don't know what happened to him in that place but it made it a little easier to forgive them both.
I love you Jon, I’ve been listening to your podcast I have never seen anyone address American history like you have l have tears In my eyes I’m so appreciative of you trying to tell the truth about the constructs that is formed institutional racism in this country. I love you I wish I knew you I wish you can sit and talk with me
A lot of us feel the same way
I love this lady, explaining things so clearly. Thank you madam.
"The beautiful range of human manifestation" is a statement that I'll hold with me for sometime.
Wonderful interview
Lord you all have touched my inner most thoughts. I remember as a eleven years old while living in Tennessee me and my siblings were walking home when this white truck came around the corner and in the back of the truck there were several white men's and his driver on the back of the truck I saw this huge round tub in their possession as they turned from one street to the other me and my siblings saw the truck so we started to move further out of their way but they were coming toward us we couldn't get over anymore but they were up to no good inside that tub it was filled with Urine they both lifted it up and threw it on me and my siblings, have this ever happened to anyone else in a small town in TN. I just want to share my history and horrible treatment from whites, this were happening a lot, we didn't tell my mom didn't want her to get hurt or retaliate on her for complainting
Jesus christ. That's horrible.
That is horrible...I don't know what your religious views are but I am a Buddhist and therefore there is an understanding of reincarnation ( I remember past lives, so it is not an abstract notion). When you understand this mechanism of reincarnation it takes the 'pressure' off this one life...those racist folks may be born into lives where they are minorities and you may be born into dominate classes next time etc... what it does is also level the playing field...but what you can take with you from lifetime to lifetime is your integrity and your karma, which is your tendencies...so, you may not look like you win in the short-term but you can win in the long-term so to speak. Again, I don't mean to potentially offend your sensibilities but more offer an explanation that allows more light and even justice in :)
Bless you for protecting your mom.
(And as well, beneath the racism is insecurity and fear- fear of your ethnicities power).
Wtf i would've opened gatling gun
Im sorry that happened to you ❤
I had repeated incidents of having trash thrown at me while being called “n$&&@r!” when walking home from school. I was not allowed in the homes of many white childhood friends. These are just two of the many racially-charged things I endured. I’m 50 years old and those things happened in Denver, CO in the 80s.
What can also be added to the metaphor relating to the house, as we speak of caste. Once another person takes possession of the house are they economically, and/or educationally capable of sustaining the house. What a powerful conversation. Can not wait to read your book title “Caste.”
This is Jon's second interview on this topic where the historical expert pointed out that equality among race was a relatively new experience for this country. This goes to show how long the history of this country, even before its liberty, was focused on controlling of blacks and other perceived minorities for the purpose of harnessing their work to build the nation. I think Americans forget how young this country is and how relatively little bloodshed and strife it has seen when compared to countries on other continents across the Earth. That we think we can solve our problems in less than a century is arrogant to be sure. A good start would be to address our history with the honest and sober approach that is required. Mistakes will continued to be made if the truth cannot be told.
They killed the 8ncas and took so many pple that priest in the 1500 south America said every expedition was more about rape and slavery
Unfortunately you would need to convince the American majority to start telling the truth about our history in America. It makes them uncomfortable. They need the suffering of others to maintain their comfort
Too many of us doNOT even try to solve problems! And too many politicians just do nothing but receive donations from corporations to do nothing but cut taxes & regulations for those corporations. How does that serve anyone but the elite-corporations, their lobbyists & their shareholders! F the rest of us!
Australia would give you a run for your money… but at least we don’t have to overcome the arrogance/ exceptionalism that is the first step to true progress
@@prodigykitty3614 ...How have we not? I'm 53 & none of the info, histroy, presented of late was unknown. Ppl r acting as if we just learned of slavery in US, Jim Crow, etc. As if we haven't addressed it, been addressing it, for almost 2 centuries, w/ monumental progress in the last half century.
What a refreshing conversation. This is a balanced conversation that can help the country heal itself. The USA is a very sick country that needs much prayers and healing. Thank you Jon for this video. Please continue to bring out all the biases and racism that is still alive and well and will only bring the country down from within.
This is the best conversation on racism I've heard yet..ty both for this.
As a graduate of an HBCU in the center of the nation, my perspective from a Light Sculptors' point of view, THANK YOU for the work you do with hot lights and mics before the unblinking eye of the camera. This discussion serves as an oasis in a desert of apathy in the SHOW ME state. My apologies for Josh Hawley and his choice to perform poorly in his position of public service. I did not select him for employment.
Seeing through the filter of a Political Science degree, earned at an institution of higher learning that was founded by soldiers, the lessons of Sun Tzu take on a new blush, knowing the school never served as a military academy. I owe my elevated visual literacy to the refinement of studies at Lincoln University in Jefferson City Missouri. I have watched generations of public servants in the capital of the Show Me state, through the filter of the Soul of the country. I became aware of politics around the days of Nixon. I have seen so much I feel as if I am going blind.
A lifetime of influence by Ozark hillbilly wisdom, refined by Sun Tzu's philosophy sharpens my perspective through the filter of my skin and being female. If resentment is applied to the house your husband inherits with you, and you are living with a DYI guy who does not want to pay a plumber to fix a non-functioning bathroom in the house, and he's just doesn't ever seem to "get around tuit" and he's in your way every day when you try to shower, that is the best way to zero in on a universal FEELING that defines resentment.
One or both must choose of eliminate all that leads up to the resentment a DYI guy who never gets around tuit can ignite when years go by and the bathroom never gets prepared to full functional status as it was intended and designed to do as a good thing for daily life in living together in the house!
When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. Thank you again!
Well said SUS!!
Amazing analogy of the bicameral legislature’s’ issues, can I add that they’ve muddied the waters so that their views mirror each other, truly chimeric..Ben Franklin was right.
Caste is a Phenomenal book!!! And having purchased the audio-book, it was wonderful to have Isabel read it to me as I rode the subway, went grocery shopping or walked the track near my home. If you're busy and have a list of books waiting, this is great! And this comes from a big fan of original, physical books. I still love holding and reading them and promising myself the (too seldom right now), pleasure of an hour with a good book and a mug of tea. I seldom use Kindle or other e-readers, tho. As an editor I spend too much time looking at screens, so that doesn't feel like reading for pleasure. Uh... I started out to recommend the audio-book and went way off-topic. I'll stop now. :)
I'm a fan of the tangibility of actual books as well and find it supremely challenging to carve out time to read.
I hear you
Still despite your wandering, which was nice, you' made your point....we should read caste.
Historical speaking reading was the present and true gift any person of color should never neglect.
I loved "The Warmth of Other Suns." A masterpiece. I look forward to reading this new book.
LOL The Nazis were like "Those Americans are taking shit too far"
God, when even people who think ethnic genocide is fine think *you're* going too far....
This was an amazing interview, thank you John! Isabel is beautiful, humble, and brilliant!
It was so nice to see an interview where it was an actual conversation and someone trying to talk you out of your feelings and truly wants to learn on both sides. He isn't feeling guilty or is shamed and likewise. Very refreshing. I'm very shocked because this isn't the norm. I have watched another on of his episodes before and a lot of people totally missed the point and took on that anger and guilt and missed the entire reason why it was made. We can't grow unless it's acknowledged, heard and then we can make progress. Thank you both.
Keep believing that garbage! Jon Stewart ain’t speaking for me. He needs to stay in his lane.
It’s so rare that yt Americans listen, I’ve formed instant friendships with the ones that are actually educated on issues.
It takes a really genuine person to realize their place in society to make it better for everyone.
@@radioblipmode3143 ok someone is angry for no reason. That energy isn't helping you at all. It's a free country people can go in whatever lanes they want. So since you want to assign lanes. Stay in that angry lane. It's suits you well. Jon isn't speaking for you. He doesn't know you. Stop being so sensitive that when people are talking about this topic that they are judging you they aren't. Since you feel that way own those feelings. That is a personal issue you have with yourself. Don't go and place what you are lacking on someone else.
@@cottonhairedaesthetic2005 I so agree with you. While other people lead with anger. It's best to do so with understanding.
@@alicialynnette9889 There isnt two sides here, jon comes from a community that raises its children with warnings about white people
Coming back to this interview now that the movie Origin is out. Isabel Wilkerson does a remarkable job with Caste. It is a must read.
Ohhhhhh... I love this guest.
Thank you for sharing her with us today.
Keep it going.
Such an excellent conversation to witness. I think the conversation also must address the role that Christianity plays in keeping this shameful caste system within our US society. I am not implying that Christianity is the sole religion guilty of assisting in the subjugation of whole groups of people. But without addressing this fully is akin to discussing the Talibán without addressing its religious zealot foundation which provides cover for a whole host of abuses.
All high school students should be required to read Isabel Wilkerson’s books by the time they finish the 10th grade. “The Warmth of Other Suns” was one of the most beautifully written books I’d every read. Thank you Ms. Wilkerson.
@@cwwingate9687 because it is…
@@ramonlovato4360 says the immigrant! 😉
They will eventually sensor, so pass it on!
Extraordinary interview. I wish everyone is taught history really well to understand the American Context. This is one of the finest interviews by Jon Stewart. And Isabelle is truly the star. I am glad she discussed Indian Caste System which is truly disgusting and hurt people for 2+ thousand years and no change whatsoever. Thanks again for an extraordinary discussion.
Thank you so much! In addition, I think something else feeding the fears of the dominant group losing its status, is the fear that the new dominant group will want revenge and will treat them the way they have been treating others. I think an antidote to this is more understanding and equality among all groups.
Isabel Wilkerson and Bryan Stevenson are two gods sent intellectuals for those who want to do good in this world
Wrong again
@@radioblipmode3143
You are entitled to your opinion.
But you know what they say about ___holes.
She is an angel sent from heaven. So lovely.
Dr. Wilkerson is the perfect person who has the intelligence and temperament to have this discussion. We have to take the emotion out of the discussion.
Brilliant and humane thinking here. Thanks so much for this. Nice to see people taking the time to think, share and work towards truth and equality.
A really fantastic episode. Learned so much.
This was so well done and enlightening with a totally new and quite plausible perspective on racism in America, as well as, in honesty, the rest of the world. I will be watching this again and hopefully downloading the book, Caste, on Audible. Thanks Jon for this informative discussion.
The old house metaphor that we ALL suffer when we neglect to repair it, is so powerful!!! As Dr. King once said, “We may have arrived on these shores on different ships but we’re all in the same boat now.”
I applaud John Stewart for facilitating these very important discussions on race.
he's pushing white liberal savior politics.
@@bigdaddy0614 That is nonsensical. It is clear you do not understand the concept of the White Savior complex. If John was pushing that mentality, he would not be engaging with an intelligent and accomplished Black woman. You are trying to discourage well-thinking White people from engaging in serious discussions about race because you want to keep the status quo in place. Shame on you!
First 5 minutes of this conversation tells you more about America than I've read in any history book and it's 100% true we live in an oligarchy not a democracy
And yet it's surprising that half the country wanted 8 years of another Clinton. That would have meant that 28 out of 35 years would have been a Clinton or Bush. The other 8 was Obama. That was reason enough for me to not vote for Hillary.
@@leevy6753 if Clinton “won” (she cheated Bernie), we would have been in WW3 by now. Say what you will about trump but thank god he beat her
@@leevy6753 I didn't want another Clinton. I think close family should count in the term limits. But it's not like I could vote for Trump.
Realize that the Democrat party were proponents of the racist policies of the past. Democrats supported slavery, upheld Jim Crow laws, and were against the Civil rights asct.
You should read more history books. Maybe part of the problem is no one reads anymore.
I'm a 57-year-old Republican. After sitting through this young women's interview, I was left with a few things to say. 1) Buy her book. 2) buy her other books. 3) Read her books. Wow, this was a great interview. She nailed it.
FYI Isabel isn't young at all. She's either 60 yo or 61 yo aka old.
We have a country, it isnt perfect. Great ideals and hopefully we can pull it together.
Part of that requires understanding the past. Were always told taxes this and that started the war. Those taxes were almost all repealed YEARS before the war.
1772, a ruling in the british high court came down saying slavery was too evil for British soil. Lord Mansfield (edited because I keep mixing up the names) was very explicit that he meant the british isles but the growing abolition movement there meant things would surely clash here.
Now consider the signees of the declaration. Almost all of their wealth built through slavery.
So much of where we are, as opposed to where we could be as a country given the beautiful ideals in the constitution has to do with trying to keep a cheap underclass to drive a false sense of wealth for the rest
@@goldenvulture6818 Looking good.
@@goldenvulture6818 NO WAY!! That is impossible. Dose she just not age?
@@modo1896 totally what matters
Love Isabel. I read Warmth of Other Sun's & cried thru most of it. Can't wait to read this book.
Great discussion. One point that was touched on and that broadly goes under the radar in our country is “willingness to admit that there’s a problem.” Particularly systemically speaking, I think this is purposely the POV of institutional leaders, because they realize as soon as they admit there is a problem they will become in some way responsible and accountable for fixing it… and they just don’t want that headache.
The problem is affirmative action (which is blatant discrimination), diversity quotas, picking supreme court justices from only black women, teaching that whiteness is toxic, and calling voter ID and shoplifting laws racist. The problem is punishing white and Asian kids more harshly to close the disparity in discipline. There are no racially discriminatory rules or laws that cut against blacks. Only endless support and favor.
"We've barely begun to make progress." This attitude is the problem.
@@parkertufts5251 thats not the problem and thats a very shallow way of looking at things . plus didnt trump put a woman on the court after saying he would ?
@@yuyuki2639 If looking far into the past to find racial discrimination is deep, then looking at actual racial discrimination today must be shallow.
We have a long way to go. There are still voter ID and shoplifting laws. Things won't be equal until we punish whites and Asians twice as harshly for the same offense (already happening in schools in the name of equity), get rid of voter ID, and repeal shoplifting laws nationwide. Then we need to stop using standardized tests, and provide $6000 monthly to every African American.
It will never be enough.
@@yuyuki2639 And nah, there were all kinds of folks on the Justice shortlist when Trump was nominating. Biden was the one who announced that he would be nominating a black woman before he knew who it would be.
This is such an important conversation, I’m glad to see us finally having it in the mainstream culture, and I’m happy to see Jon Stewart taking this on in this new phase of his brilliant career. Hats off to him, and of course to Isabel for her work (and her grace - what a beautiful mind and human she is).
God bless you Jon, you've done it again! This is the most interesting discussion I have heard and speaks to my vague sense that "racism" is not about skin color but rather about taking power from someone less able to protect themselves. Slavery has existed in many cultures since the beginning of mankind and I have always wondered how it happened, and continues in spite of prohibitions against it.
Excellent interview which I have shared with many! Now I’m to read her book. I’m truly awed😍👍🏼
Another eye opening interview. Please, please keep posting more of these. I'm thinking about these things. I'm reading about these things and I'm talking about these things. And, I'll vote on these things.
Glad to see Jon bringing forth the truths so perfectly outlined in Dr. Wilkerson's books. I do think it is time to flip the balance although I have grave concerns that those in power and ownership now, will continue to gut the underpinnings within our society which make it possible for new generations to advance. I speak of education, finance, and health to name some of the top priorities which need to be strongly rebuilt and equitably sustained to make robust survival possible for future generations.
I so adored and appreciate the "old house" analogy/metaphor - excellent perspective.
I look forward to reading.
Thank you, Stewart. I can’t say enough about this thought-provoking interview. Dr. Wilkerson is phenomenal in her ability to deconstruct and explain the complexities of caste and race in our country’s DNA. Instinctually, I’ll need to watch the interview again to further my comprehension. This has been incredible❤