The piece by Delibes MUST be the inspiration for the Jazz standard "Stella By Starlight" by Victor Young, used in the 1944 movie "The Uninvited". The jazz "real book" has the wrong changes. It begins just like Delibes. A CTº7 with scale degree 7 in the melody, and ascending left hand dim arpeggio. The melody also goes to the same scale degree 5 in bar 2 like Delibes, but instead of tonic it's a ii7 - V7 progression, and then things begin to change from there. This was my first time hearing this Delibes piece and I was instantly reminded of Stella by Starlight.
Hi again Seth, A most interesting family note..... My name being Bohne Forsberg ( old Swedish family ) Original family name was 'BENGT' until we adopted the 'FORSBERG' ornamental family name and immigrated to America long ago.... So what?..... I noticed that the esteemed pianist in ( dass sie heir geswessen ) is 'Bengt Forsberg' Ha!!! must be a family cousin... I'm sure... there are many musicians in our family of which I'm sure Bengt is a part of.....FORSBERG is an uncommon name in these parts.... so nice to see our family name out there... Enjoyed this video. thank you Seth.
Professer Monahan Sir: My SINCERE appreciation and heart felt GRATITUDE go out to the quality of your ENTIRE VIDEO ENSEMBLE. years ago when I began my music foray.... How I wished I would've studied with you personally... ( this is the next best thing ) you're very conscienceous, clear, straightforward and humorous.... I often check back and RE-WATCH these excellent videos just to see what I missed.... thanks to LESSON 32 'The CTº7' ( of which I honestly really never understood why I should care? - I LEARNED all º7's are NOT THE SAME - New respect ) You skillfully unpacked the FUNCTION of the CTº7 with Logical reasoning, diagrams and sonic PROOF that helped me understand the CTº7 ( I didn't even know what they were when I came across them ) mystery in several jazz pieces ( April in Paris ) I intend to master ..... Please keep doing what you're doing. Very very High Quality!!!!!
These videos are such a joy. It's brilliant to get such in-depth focus, with audio examples, on aspects of the common practice style. I especially appreciate the highlighting red of NCTs - a good continual reminder of the importance of rich dissonance that I personally find can be under emphasised in harmony textbooks. Thanks again!
Good video! This explained one of the things i was seeing in a chopin piece that Im currently playing. The op. 32 no. 2 nocturne starts the main phrase with a common tone diminished seventh
Thanks for the recommendations! After making one of these videos, I often have to go scrounging for additional examples to use in class, since I always put my favorites in the video itself. I've gotten some fantastic supplementary examples from viewers in the comments section! (Currently, my in-class pool for CTo7s only has one Chopin example, the C#m Mazurka from op. 41.)
Extremely well explained Seth! I have been noticing such sonorities lately in quite a few pieces in fact. I have hitherto considered them as simply embellishments of the tonic chord especially since the upper voices are transitioned into and out of stepwise, though have only thought of them this way when the chord is only a triad and has scale degrees 5 and 3 dip down and back. With the scale degree 6, however, it seems more substantial and warrants, for me, a symbol designation in analysis. Being much more learned than me, would you say I am hearing the triad in variant “wrong”, so to speak (music is obviously subjective so “wrong” might be, well, the wrong word, but to your ears is my interpretation valid?)? Can’t wait to watch the next video the double upload has made my day - well worth the wait during which you must’ve worked very hard.
Hi there Sheet Music! I'm glad I found your comment here. You left one on a different video a few weeks back, and when I tried to reply, RUclips didn't show it anymore [?]. Apologies for that. As to your question: it's a good one, and there's no simple answer. I know many professional analysts who would absolutely *insist* that the CTo7 isn't a "real" chord, but is rather an embellishment of some (usually tonic) triad. I don't take such a hard line on the question. For me, these things tend to occur on a sliding scale, in many gradations. There are some CTo7s that absolutely feel decorative to me-i.e., produced by non-chordal embellishments and thus not like a "real" chord. (See for instance the second movement of Mozart's K. 545 sonata, at the end of bar 3-or the CTo7 that resolves to V7 in this video, actually.) In other cases, they do feel like real chords to me. This is usually when (a) they'reSchubert
Thank you Seth for the great reply (as always). The other comment you were referring to I deleted since I felt on afterthought that I may have been wasting your time asking a question out of pure curiosity as opposed to one that was more theory-related. The fact that you went to respond to it tells me otherwise, or perhaps you were just being kind.
Welcome back!!! Somehow the quality of that common tone diminished chord reminds me of a chord that would have the same notes but a sharp 5 scale degree in the bass. (And what would be the 6 above omitted) I think I saw it related to German 6th modulation or something like that. Could that be? I guess it’s used in a different function.
Is vii°7/vi really that commonly seen? I've never seen it in a situation where I would actually call it vii°7/vi. It's always been more like a brief modulation or tonicization when I see such a chord, such as B, D, F, Ab in Eb major moving to C minor briefly before Eb major becomes tonic once again.
In Schubert's "Dass sie hier gewesen", you mentioned the "bVII64" chords *hint* at another key - couldn't they just be (here's a mouthful) "applied, unresolved, cadential six-four chords" from the parallel key of Bb minor? Like a "Vsus of VII" or "I64 of VII" in Bb minor?
Great question! I think I do, effectively, hear those as potential cadential six-fours. (The problem, as the video notes later, is that when "CTo7"s resolve into cadential 6/4s, they're "really" viio7 of V's.) That said, for me, those Ab triads have always had an air of mischief about them-as if they're deliberately there for misdirection. Schubert's already taught us to hear that dim7 chord as viio7 of ii, and it will ultimately resolve to ii again. But those alternate resolutions add a splash of unexpected color while playing a kind of shell game with our ears. In a good-natured way, Franz is just messing with us there, I think.
Right, CT°7 resolves to V, and I think that’s the ticket - if we’re thinking of them as applied cadential six-fours then they’re not Ab chords, they’re Eb chords with two non-chord tones above the root. He could have chosen to finish resolving each one to Eb on the last 8th rest of each measure. Eb is V of bVII. So each CT°7 functions as it should because they are like “vii°7 of the V of bVII”. I hope I don’t sound like lunatic, but it makes sense to me 🤷♂️😂
@@michaelmackley4110 Makes perfect sense to me too! (Though that doesn't mean you sound entirely sane. My students sometimes give me that stare-a mixture of pity and horror-like I'm a glitching android who's just spouting random numbers out of his mouth...)
Thank you so much for these most excellent videos, Prof. Monahan! One very small question-in bars 7&8 of the Schubert, seems like the FB is not quite right? I think I see b6-5 & 4-3?
You're free to send it to me at my work email address. Be sure to let me know what kind of feedback you're looking for, and if I have time, I'll accommodate! (Summer has me working frantically to get videos done.)
![FNAF Into the Pit has A LOT of Unused Graphics | LOST BITS [TetraBitGaming]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6YhZCRdipl4/mqdefault.jpg)
The piece by Delibes MUST be the inspiration for the Jazz standard "Stella By Starlight" by Victor Young, used in the 1944 movie "The Uninvited". The jazz "real book" has the wrong changes. It begins just like Delibes. A CTº7 with scale degree 7 in the melody, and ascending left hand dim arpeggio. The melody also goes to the same scale degree 5 in bar 2 like Delibes, but instead of tonic it's a ii7 - V7 progression, and then things begin to change from there. This was my first time hearing this Delibes piece and I was instantly reminded of Stella by Starlight.
Hi again Seth, A most interesting family note..... My name being Bohne Forsberg ( old Swedish family ) Original family name was 'BENGT' until we adopted the 'FORSBERG' ornamental family name and immigrated to America long ago.... So what?..... I noticed that the esteemed pianist in ( dass sie heir geswessen ) is 'Bengt Forsberg' Ha!!! must be a family cousin... I'm sure... there are many musicians in our family of which I'm sure Bengt is a part of.....FORSBERG is an uncommon name in these parts.... so nice to see our family name out there... Enjoyed this video. thank you Seth.
I was just watching the entire series again and now we have more lessons. Thank you!
Professer Monahan Sir: My SINCERE appreciation and heart felt GRATITUDE go out to the quality of your ENTIRE VIDEO ENSEMBLE. years ago when I began my music foray.... How I wished I would've studied with you personally... ( this is the next best thing ) you're very conscienceous, clear, straightforward and humorous.... I often check back and RE-WATCH these excellent videos just to see what I missed.... thanks to LESSON 32 'The CTº7' ( of which I honestly really never understood why I should care? - I LEARNED all º7's are NOT THE SAME - New respect ) You skillfully unpacked the FUNCTION of the CTº7 with Logical reasoning, diagrams and sonic PROOF that helped me understand the CTº7 ( I didn't even know what they were when I came across them ) mystery in several jazz pieces ( April in Paris ) I intend to master ..... Please keep doing what you're doing. Very very High Quality!!!!!
These videos are such a joy. It's brilliant to get such in-depth focus, with audio examples, on aspects of the common practice style. I especially appreciate the highlighting red of NCTs - a good continual reminder of the importance of rich dissonance that I personally find can be under emphasised in harmony textbooks. Thanks again!
Thanks so much, Tom. I'm always grateful for your kind comments!
Good video! This explained one of the things i was seeing in a chopin piece that Im currently playing. The op. 32 no. 2 nocturne starts the main phrase with a common tone diminished seventh
Chopin loves this one too. A major polonaise a couple of bars in, Nocturne Op. 32 no. 2, slow movement of sonata no. 1 and the list goes on.
Thanks for the recommendations! After making one of these videos, I often have to go scrounging for additional examples to use in class, since I always put my favorites in the video itself. I've gotten some fantastic supplementary examples from viewers in the comments section! (Currently, my in-class pool for CTo7s only has one Chopin example, the C#m Mazurka from op. 41.)
Thank you, Seth. I've been waiting patiently for new content. Your lessons are very enjoyable and informative.
Wow this is a treat.
All your other videos have been excellent viewing and very informative.
Looking forward to viewing this one.
Many thanks sir.
Seth you are just simply sublime. Don’t think I’ve ever seen someone do it so good as you. Love from the Netherlands
There is a third Pathetique. It is Beethoven's Piano Sonata no. 5 in C minor, "Little Pathetique"
“Lucky to have a job after that last video” 😂 yup that pandemic did a number on you
Beard poisoning?! HAHAHA Thank you for always making theory so much fun! Hope your summer is going well!
Edith-so great to hear from you!!! I'm having a great summer working full-time on my videos. I hope you're doing well too!
@@SethMonahan yayy! Always so excited to refer the lessons to my students. Thank you for the videos, and keep 'em coming!!
Yessss! love your videos!
Extremely well explained Seth! I have been noticing such sonorities lately in quite a few pieces in fact. I have hitherto considered them as simply embellishments of the tonic chord especially since the upper voices are transitioned into and out of stepwise, though have only thought of them this way when the chord is only a triad and has scale degrees 5 and 3 dip down and back. With the scale degree 6, however, it seems more substantial and warrants, for me, a symbol designation in analysis. Being much more learned than me, would you say I am hearing the triad in variant “wrong”, so to speak (music is obviously subjective so “wrong” might be, well, the wrong word, but to your ears is my interpretation valid?)?
Can’t wait to watch the next video the double upload has made my day - well worth the wait during which you must’ve worked very hard.
Hi there Sheet Music! I'm glad I found your comment here. You left one on a different video a few weeks back, and when I tried to reply, RUclips didn't show it anymore [?]. Apologies for that.
As to your question: it's a good one, and there's no simple answer. I know many professional analysts who would absolutely *insist* that the CTo7 isn't a "real" chord, but is rather an embellishment of some (usually tonic) triad. I don't take such a hard line on the question. For me, these things tend to occur on a sliding scale, in many gradations. There are some CTo7s that absolutely feel decorative to me-i.e., produced by non-chordal embellishments and thus not like a "real" chord. (See for instance the second movement of Mozart's K. 545 sonata, at the end of bar 3-or the CTo7 that resolves to V7 in this video, actually.) In other cases, they do feel like real chords to me. This is usually when (a) they'reSchubert
Thank you Seth for the great reply (as always). The other comment you were referring to I deleted since I felt on afterthought that I may have been wasting your time asking a question out of pure curiosity as opposed to one that was more theory-related. The fact that you went to respond to it tells me otherwise, or perhaps you were just being kind.
@@sheetmusic2302 I'm always happy to answer questions, provided that I have the time. Curiosity is too rare in this world not to be rewarded!
@@SethMonahan Thank you!
Welcome back!!!
Somehow the quality of that common tone diminished chord reminds me of a chord that would have the same notes but a sharp 5 scale degree in the bass. (And what would be the 6 above omitted) I think I saw it related to German 6th modulation or something like that. Could that be? I guess it’s used in a different function.
Is vii°7/vi really that commonly seen? I've never seen it in a situation where I would actually call it vii°7/vi. It's always been more like a brief modulation or tonicization when I see such a chord, such as B, D, F, Ab in Eb major moving to C minor briefly before Eb major becomes tonic once again.
13:12 Stella by Starlight
So I'm not the only one who heard that! 👍
Haven't seen the video yet but I know it's gonna be good!! Thanks for this!
Thanks Daryl! There are two more coming today and/or tomorrow. Then at least two more before early August. Stay tuned!
this is awesome ty for ur work
The boss is back!
A lot to absorb...but I'm staying with it! 😅
I'm impressed by your persistence-it's a LOT to be taking in so quickly!
@@SethMonahan THANX! 😃
In Schubert's "Dass sie hier gewesen", you mentioned the "bVII64" chords *hint* at another key - couldn't they just be (here's a mouthful) "applied, unresolved, cadential six-four chords" from the parallel key of Bb minor? Like a "Vsus of VII" or "I64 of VII" in Bb minor?
Great question! I think I do, effectively, hear those as potential cadential six-fours. (The problem, as the video notes later, is that when "CTo7"s resolve into cadential 6/4s, they're "really" viio7 of V's.) That said, for me, those Ab triads have always had an air of mischief about them-as if they're deliberately there for misdirection. Schubert's already taught us to hear that dim7 chord as viio7 of ii, and it will ultimately resolve to ii again. But those alternate resolutions add a splash of unexpected color while playing a kind of shell game with our ears. In a good-natured way, Franz is just messing with us there, I think.
Right, CT°7 resolves to V, and I think that’s the ticket - if we’re thinking of them as applied cadential six-fours then they’re not Ab chords, they’re Eb chords with two non-chord tones above the root. He could have chosen to finish resolving each one to Eb on the last 8th rest of each measure.
Eb is V of bVII. So each CT°7 functions as it should because they are like “vii°7 of the V of bVII”. I hope I don’t sound like lunatic, but it makes sense to me 🤷♂️😂
@@michaelmackley4110 Makes perfect sense to me too! (Though that doesn't mean you sound entirely sane. My students sometimes give me that stare-a mixture of pity and horror-like I'm a glitching android who's just spouting random numbers out of his mouth...)
Thank you so much for these most excellent videos, Prof. Monahan!
One very small question-in bars 7&8 of the Schubert, seems like the FB is not quite right? I think I see b6-5 & 4-3?
Also the “half-hearted nod towards another key”-that would be c minor, yes? (tonicizing ii). Just wondering why ‘half-hearted’?
I wrote a piece, which is not fully complete yet, could you look at it, and maybe send me feedback?
Its fine if you're busy 😁
You're free to send it to me at my work email address. Be sure to let me know what kind of feedback you're looking for, and if I have time, I'll accommodate! (Summer has me working frantically to get videos done.)