Monopoly Framing + ZipR = Perfect Air Barrier/Thermal Break
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- Matt visits Steve Baczek's offsite framing job-site where he meets Josh, an engineer turned GC. Steve and Josh walk through these air sealing details that make this the perfect air barrier and thermal break.
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I wish the presentation had a B-roll close-up that showed each detail as it was being explained. It's hard to follow what the detail is, just looking at the people standing in front of the construction trying to explain it with words.
This!!!!
Yes, those of us that have never worked in the building trades, have a hard time imagining what is being described!
Yup
I could draw them for you. For a price, muuhhhaaahhhaaaaaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Yes please!!
Really impressive work by Josh. As a fellow engineer who also builds, I really appreciate it. Funny thing, we monopoly framed my house in 2012 simply because we wanted rustic exposed rafter tails. The sane approach we arrived at was to end the rafters flush with the walls and put on a rim board. Then a fascia and stained 4x6 "faux" tails were attached to the rim, and stained rough sawn 1x12 lumber attached over the top of the 4x6 tails to look like roof boards from below. Viewed from outside it looks real but it's all tacked on external to the monopoly framed wall and roof structure built from traditional framing lumber and sheathing.
It's great to see the monopoly concept being used to enhance the build for airtight purposes with modern materials and methods. It makes a lot of sense. My only advice to anyone considering this is to be aware of snow loads and wind uplift loads on the overhangs -- since they are not structurally tied to the rafters, they need to independently handle these loads. Wind loads can be very substantial on the overhangs, especially on gables where wind creates low pressure above the roof and high pressure under the overhang, which is a perfect combination for uplift.
It's kind of like movie sets when you think about it.
2018 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE (IRC) | ICC DIGITAL CODES
Image shows a 1’ max overhang and tension ties. What is the best detail for this eave in snow climates?
Very impressive Matt. Love it when a Desk jockey gets their hands and head into the build. Bravo 👏👌!!!
So impressive to see Josh paying attention to the detail. I'm planning to build a new home for us in the PNW in 2024, with only myself and one other as the GC, so thanks for the encouragement and seeing it is possible!
Hi Matt! You need to do a show on this in Northern Idaho, When you ask about air barriers, blower door testing, and Manual J calculations you get a blank look from the builders?
Technology has not made its way to the frontier.......lol
It's the same in the Boise area! They're still building 80's style with vented crawl spaces.
@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Do you have links to the other videos that Matt mentioned in this house Josh is building.
Nicely done Josh. Superior products and attention to details and building science is a win for the homeowner. Love the continuity of the weather control layer, air control layer and the thermal control layer. A great way to build a house.
When I build in NH I can't wait to do Monopoly construction. Such a unique detail to attain a tight barrier.
I just built one Monopoly style in the Sunapee region last year, complete with continuous insulation over the wall and roof sheathing (3" and 6", respectively) and the tightness and efficiency is so far beyond what even most of the significantly more expensive houses in the area are attaining. It's all about these smart approaches to roof and wall assemblies and paying attention to the details - more NH builders need to step up their game!
Been watching Matt on and off for a few years now. I was so happy to hear he is being sponsored by the EPA and Energy Star! That's the Matt I know and love! Team SCIENCE!!!!
Matt, I have been a fan for at least 10+ years now. Watching many of your vids more than once in preparation for my last build. As of Oct 024 all of our pre home build installations will be completed. Foundation, road, 600 ft electrical, septic, well, etc. Only the actually house itself, framing plus will be left. Now - my down fall.. I cannot justify/afford all of these energy savings add-ons. The one I truly wanted to do was to add my overhangs to the air tight box as this video is describing.. With an end result eliminating all thermal bridging. And so many, many others. With the price of labor and materials these days I just don't have the funds. 😪 I'm guessing that this add-on to this home (by itself) added $15K + over the the standard method. Once you start adding one after another they add another 100K to the project.
Keep up the good work. Enjoy watching the latest problem solving going on in the residential construction field.
Matt, Steve & Josh,
Impressive indeed! I'm very impressed by the unique elements. I love the planned Zip Roof sheathing and how Josh attached the overhang framing under it.
I've enjoyed Steve's videos on this project!
Cheers, Eric
I’m a lot like Josh. This gives me confidence to start my own build. I just gotta find the money now 😅
Economics dictate that I do the same. Plus the housing I’ve seen built these days are a lot of things… airtight ain’t one of them.
Take your time , invest in superior quality products and go for it.
Good luck!
Super impressive! And motivating. I definitely want to do that.
Looking great, Josh! :)
Excellent details at the base of the building.
Really needed Big Red here!
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏼👊🏼
I first saw this on the Studpack dream house/garage for the monopoly framing. Super smart
Are ice dams where the overhangs are attached a concern? Does the detail have a roof vent space going over the already installed zip roof sheathing to prevent ice dams building up where the overhangs are being attached or is that not a concern with monopoly framing?
Matt looks Cold 🥶
It was, indeed, really cold actually. My hands were numb while we recorded this. The day prior it was in the 50s, but this day it was low 30s.
Love it when "the brains" get on the tools, we all advance
This is really good. I would like to see a detailed explanation and video of the connection to foundation, including flashing. It's explained, but I'm having problems visualizing the details..
Inspiring! Can we get a close up of how the roof sheathing meets the sheathing on top of the ladder framed soffits?
HI would like to see him adding the overhang… I’m a little confused on the detail
i'd like to see a drafted drawing from the plan set to understand the detail better.
Good to see this idea is being used more. How is the gable wall to roof connection "monopoly framed" in this case? It appears the roof sheathing was run past the wall to attach the ladder rake. Wish they had some drone footages or close up photos at least. Maybe Steve will do a follow up video with the drawings.
I have legit seen Steve Baczek install 2 600lb windows by himself - while accosting an assailant with a pex line.
And I was just warming up lol....
I know over time his overhangs will sag and droop down, I've seen ladder style overhangs sag on gables and this is a ladder style overhang everywhere, it's not a strong design when it's just nailed on to the face of the building and without even the roof sheathing to support it. He should run rafters over the Zip and create a second roof over top the first and that would give strong overhangs and more space for insulation or even vent the roof.
Amazing looking! Curious your thoughts on scaling something like this down to something like a lean-to office building. I have been considering using something like this to build myself an office in my backyard, but I'd love for it to be as efficient as possible so I could possibly run it off of solar energy.
CERTAINLY......
Maybe I’m wrong but how do you ventilate the roof attic space so that no moisture builds up or is that not necessary. I am designing a mini house/ workshop area that would have blow in walls and attic with mini split and metal roofing. Double 2x4 walls for that thermal break sheet metal siding. I’m just worried about moisture in the attic messing with my wood and insulation. I’d like to monopoly frame the roof so I don’t have any gaps for moisture or bugs or draft.
Not sure about relying on tapes for the roof to wall transition.
Looking for other videos of this build. The home owner is doing many of the things that I am planning to do and I would like more information. Please send me links of the other videos mentioned. Thanks.
When Steve wraps up this house and goes for a COO, I'd LOVE to see his Air Exchange Rating. I'm curious, is he planning to utilize an ERV for fresh air intake and discharge?
Yes sir
tHanks for the video. What keeps the added overhang framing from simply.....falling away from the house over time?
Likely giant f$%#ing lag screws. It'd be nice if they showed it though. It does prevent you from having large overhangs though as there are limits on how far you can cantilever the tacked on rafter tails. You'll be limited to around a 2' overhang. Large overhangs significantly improve the longevity of structures, so I went with modified monopoly framing (look up Scott True in another of Risinger's videos), since it allowed me to have 3' overhangs and in some places 5' overhangs.
tHank you @@jonathansage2147 . I've seen remodelers try this type of thing and with some time it showed like underwear through a tight dress.
However, in the spirit of cool new things, maybe there is a way.
Have a spectacular New Year!
@@jonathansage2147 More videos coming, waiting for progress to catch up
@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 looking forward to it. I love your work.
I'm in VT trying to build a small net zero home. My worry with ZipR is will it dry from the inside?
I liked seeing this when MR was building his house. However, still, I like overhangs that are 24" in depth. What is the max that an overhang can be and still allow the weight loading. DIdn't MR extend the overhang framing up the top of his roof and then laid another layer of paneling on them?
@Matt if you were building a house for a client in Texas area how much more premium is your service over the entry competition house builder like a Lennar homes? Using the “monopoly framing, energy efficiency house”
I recall hearing suggestions of an increase to the total build cost of 5% or 10% to get the energy efficiency improvements, e.g. I think I heard this on the UnbuildIt Podcast (Steve Baczek, Jake Bruton, Peter Yost). For consideration, this is partly because the increased costs in the improvements are partially offset by lower HVAC costs, so the suggestion is that these costs should be bundled together when considered by the homeowner or when presented to the client. This helps clarify that these costs are not independent: cutting costs in one increases the required costs for the other.
This is a great job, one question why not R-12? is it due to wall thickness already or something else.
The jump from R-6 to R-9 is an easy pill to swallow, Going from R-9 to R-12 is actually a leap, nails change, special framing gun, etc
ZIP and ZIP+R specifications require 1.5" or more penetration of the nail into the stud, so an R-12 ZIP+R means 2" insulation + 0.5" sheathing = 2.5" thickness, requiring at least a 20d (4") nail, which gets very hefty when each piece of sheathing requires ~70 nails.
Perhaps a more minor consideration: With such large nails, the nails themselves also start providing a meaningful thermal bridge: each sheet with ~70 20d nails would have the equivalent of 2.25 square inches of metal driving through the R-12 insulation and bypassing it (vs 1.5 square inches for 70 3.5" 16d nails for the R-6 variant).
I have just put up 22 sheets of R-12 with 4" screws, yes it was challenge as a recommendation from Efficiency VT. I will see if it's going to work along with Pella Impervia windows
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431
love the idea of this! would it work in a colder zone? say canada? :D
Sure, insulation levels just need to be proportional
I would cut out the window/door openings so the Zip outer sheeting would/could provide an abutment for the inside sides, header/sill plate Zip sheeting a cove to sit into basically? Sealing off the seam with a contiguous front fascia sheeting scheme.
All the work we do to have a sealed system from the outside and the inside that has a life length of what, 40 years before needing maintenance? Makes me think of just going with an all concrete, no messing around!
My next build will be Monopoly framing, but how do you do the details if you need 4 inches of exterior foam?
I may be wrong but I think you can do it over the monopoly framing.
Take a look at Matt's real rebuild. His house has exterior foam over the monopoly framing.
Don't use zip-r. Apply your insulation on the outside of your zip sheathing. It's more labor intensive, but it puts the exterior insulation in a better location to prevent your sheathing from becoming a cold condensing surface.
I’m not understanding how the air barrier is achieved where the roof sheathing on the gable ends ties into the wall sheathing when the roof sheathing runs out to the end of the overhang. It seemed like Matt asked that question then the owner either didn’t understand the question or just breezed by it?
I think in another video you see it’s Zip covering the soffit with liquid flash in the seam where it meets the wall
So with the perfect air barrier on the exterior, what do you install for vapor barrier on the interior, anything?
- the external air barrier is the vapour barrier - internally the airhandler/etc dries everything to the inside (Dehumidification - humidity control - ERV / HRV is nearly essential in houses which are so tight, otherwise simply opening up to the elements negates insulation)..
When you say “ negates insulation” does that mean you aren’t putting any?
In my experience the “vapor barrier” goes on the warm side of the insulation because that is where the dew point exists, if the zip sheathing is the vapor barrier then are you putting insulation on the outside of the framing?
Here in California, Zip system is slow to catch on. Many builders are still using Tyvek house wrap or black building paper.
1)
How do you know the roof edge is engineered enough for heavy men on ladders with supplies climbing on the roof edge? 2) do windows have deeper flange than usual?
- just get light men to do this work.. (jk) - I don't think we are seeing all the roof / eave details just yet - if it ends up like other monopoly builds MR has shown, there should be rafter tails and a cold roof deck added otherwise ?? - yes hmmm... - Don't forget snow loads can be much greater than a set of heavy boots.
It seems like it would be cheaper just to have a higher heating cooling bill. Do you ever recoup the cost of all high end insulation?
It’s not all about cost, it’s also about comfort. No drafts or spots that are too warm/cold. And it helps a lot in power outage scenarios, house will stay cool/warm a lot longer.
Also insect entry is reduced and control of air quality and moisture. If cheap is the only metric you want to hit then sure but….
@@everkill1 Yes, this doesn't pan out if you only look at Energy $$, health, comfort, durability, etc matter to some
@@twestgard2 Agreed
Our houses in Washington state so much cheaper i couldn't imagine building often like this though I would like to because it saves so much energy but air systems are absolutely needed in this construction. If i was doing overhangs like this i would absolutely be doing some nice wooden corbels i freaking hate sagging. We doing have heavy snow loads
I'm still trying to understand this. Why ZIP-R in the northeast and not exterior insulation? Is it simply a matter of being cheaper?
One trip around....
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 One trip around would certainly qualify as cheaper. Can this be done without closed cell spray foam and extra thick walls?
Building Science sure has come a long way, but when you step back you see it’s driven by very basic concerns AND the willingness to address them. Overall, the spec-house industry has no clue about any of this because they are not incentivized to care.
I look at my 1939 house, and it’s “just like this” minus most of the parts lol.
I didn't realize Steve could install a 600lb window by himself. Mark that down as someone who I don't want to fug with.
And that's before breakfast lol
Can you show examples of what you guys are talking about? Without seeing an example, it’s hard to visualize without some video of your process application.
They are going to need like 30k in fill dirt
I'm pretty sure this is the correct roof-wall joint detail for Perfect Wall, and is well and away better than some other variants you've tried, Matt.
I'd prefer to see the zip sheathing come down lower than the bottom sill plate by about 1/4" so it drips past the sill, and I personally am loathe to use sprayfoam on anything that isn't temporary, but his idea of pushing the sill out further from concrete *might* prove useful for handling the layering and attachment. Just need to be sure the *entire* sill doesn't make contact with concrete, even mortar for stone, or it'll wick.
I like his idea of adding a half inch to RO all around to add zip sheathing inside the window sill, but I'd like to remind that alot of folks will tell you to let the top edge of a window to drain out rather than pushing any possible water back into the house.
Also should slope the bottom sill so it doesn't act as a water pan.
Steve's mic is always clipping, fyi
I don’t get the monopoly frame in a northern climate (unless it’s all vaulted ceilings). Are you conditioning your attic and doing a hot roof?? Also, what’s the point of lining the RO s with 7/16. Could you just tape over the exposed edge of the zipR onto the 2x6 and complain the same thing?
You cannot have a vented roof with this system correct?
Correct
Correct. I'm utilizing an unvented attic (aka "hot attic").
PSA---If you are participating in your own build, just be aware that the subs dont know you and might not listen to you if your not there. It is not easy to get subs to follow these building methods in my personal experience. You will get a lot of comments like "I've been doing this 30yrs" or "If you know so much why did you hire me?". It may also be challenging to find an architect that will work with you on these details. Some subs simply wont listen and try to force you to accept things that dont even meet code. If your building inspector is not focused; you will be in a very bad position. After multiple months we have a nice house, but it is a lot of work and stress to be involved directly. Best of luck future homeowners!!
- yep, the subs who say this - anyone who pulls 30 years of incompetence as justification for anything is about ready to retire - and shouldn't be on (such an atypical) site...
If the GC (if it isn't an owner build) doesn't "get" the concepts - fire them, or get them to edumicate themselves...... (Same for Engineers, architects and Inspectors - you want all the guys / gals on the team to be working for you the owner...
Indeed, if you are doing the "prime contractor" work - you need to be onsite managing the build - whenever there are any other contractors doing anything....
Can you fix Steve's audio levels? Always clipping on him :)
The fact your framers had to build that whole place without backfill sucks.
I’ve been building similar to this for 18 years now. Build an envelope and then put the pretty stuff on later.
The walls were all framed offsite and craned in, 1 1/2 days to set all the walls, another 1 1/2 days for the roof trusses
Ummm... isn't this all a little overkill? 2x6 interior walls and R9 sheathing. Where is this house at, the Arctic Circle?
This is just a little better than the 2021 International Building Code calls for in climate zones 4 and higher (R20 wall cavity + R5 continuous exterior insulation). Keep in mind this is a *Minimum* requirement.
I have watched this video several times and I still don't understand how the eaves/overhangs are done when a house is "monopoly framed"
My impression is that in this video the wood that is visible (exterior to the ZIP) was put together purely on the exterior of the ZIP and then secured through the ZIP to the framing, probably with heavy duty screws (e.g. PowerLags). Another flavor of this is what Matt did on his house (Real Rebuild series), where he also did exterior insulation on the roof -- I personally feel better about that approach than the approach shown in this video (even if what was done in this video also looks secure).
The details on this framing is always done in a vague way in these buildings in Matt's videos. Maybe it's currently all considered specialty (non-standard in the code) and so needs sign off from an engineer? Either way, a clarification on that would be useful.
I certainly like the concept of tight airseal at the junction of wall and roof but unless I can better understand how the overhangs/eaves are done with this system it seems like such a hassle/complicated process that its not worth what is saves in terms of air tightness. If I could get a better grasp of how to do the overhangs/eaves it may be different story. I would guess the great majority of framers have never heard of this method nonetheless actually performed it before. @@dosadoodle
Still not comfortable with taped horizontal joints. I do like that house wrap can be shingled to shed water for the long haul.
I love Matt and Steve and this is great content but why does it look like it was filmed with a cell phone? And we can get some lav mics on these guys?
You are not wrong, but as this is for education - not professional entertainment - and part of a very large number of videos in a series - audio / video quality seems adequate to me.
I have to agree. For a couple hundred bucks, the quality could be greatly improved. I do appreciate the content though!
😄 👍 👌 ...
I like zip-r but it is not inexpensive
Easier install than full exterior insulation, but I don't really care for it otherwise. I'd rather have Rockwool.
I wouldve flashed in the pocket of the 2×10 and 2x12.
That is still a to-do for me. It's on my list but lower on the priority at the moment while I have the boom lift rental.
I know nothing....... it's really nice to see all of that nice contiuous, carefully taped sheathing ; but um....if you are going this far to protect and seal the structure; doesn't it make sense to COMPLETELY coat EVERY surface of the ladder rake assemblies with a durable sealant and perhaps even finish paint BEFORE installing them?
They get covered by finish trim
I think those rake details all have ZIP underneath them, so my understanding is that they did complete the sealing before adding those. ZIP should not be painted, because it will be covered. The nail or screw penetrations in the ZIP are also okay -- the nail / screw doesn't create a new gap, unless the nail or screw is backed out.
That gables that doesn't have matching slope on the windows looks terrible
Sloping windows and roof slopes match?
Envelope much to tight, air exchanges critical to this design , loose air exchange and interior becomes a thermos bottle, better have back up when the tornado /hurricane kills the power for weeks at a time . Once you get evacuated all bets are off and you will probably come back to a mold pit.
Dear video editor, please use real LUTs on the log footage. Don't just crank the contrast and saturation, it doesn't do the same thing.
Man all I see is 5k dollars in tape... this is intense.
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
Don't like plywood stood straight up and down. Much stronger laderally. Structural integrity should always come before energy efficiency
I agree but in certain locations stood up is stronger like ends of walls
You can do all this and your wife will still leave the doors and windows open
Need a better trained wife.....lol
first
"Steve and I's videos" (1:52)
@1:45, you should have said, "You've seen a bunch of Steve's and my videos," not "You've seen a bunch of Steve's and I's videos. I's????
Monopoly framing is fugly. Seems like purely a builder economic play which leaves owners with a fugly house. Also let's come back in 20 years and see how those eaveless boxes do after 20 seasonal weather cycles LOL.
I get the concept here but good god this bald dude is splitting hairs on the methodology meanwhile he over drove the nails into the sheathing and didn’t seal them with liquid flashing… lol w/e…
Stopped watching because this guy. Sorry Matt.
Zip system really in not applicable in the real world weather conditions guys dropping plywood in the mud leave the rollers at home. It’s just a crap system for residential construction. Nothing beats Tyvec
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