Should We Stop Having Babies? | Antinatalism Explored
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Is it better never to have been? Some people believe it would indeed be better if no sentient life came into existence. Antinatalism is the philosophical viewpoint that procreation is morally wrong. And therefore, we should avoid it. Some antinatalists think only humans should stop having children; others believe that all sentient beings would be better off if they’d never existed. But isn’t it wrong to oppose the birth of children? Why would anybody be against the creation of new life? So, is having children bad? This video explores the philosophy of antinatalism (Should We Stop Having Babies? | Antinatalism Explored)
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00:00 - Intro
01:38 - Asymmetry of good and bad
06:21 - How dreadful life is
09:55 - Ongoing dissatisfaction
13:18 - So, is it bad to have children?
16:40 - But what should we do?
#ANTINATALISM #SCHOPENHAUER #DAVIDBENATAR
Thank you all for the unusual amount of comments. I've gotten the criticism that this video could actually induce people with (suicidal) depression to engage in self-harm. Of course, that's not the intention of this video. Do you think this possibility is plausible? If so, I'm willing to remove the video, as I don't want to contribute to people doing harmful things to themselves. Also, to be clear, I'm NOT an antinatalist (or anti-life), even though I find the idea interesting.
I do agree that the concept and video may act as a trigger. I disagree with you choosing to take it down however.
Conceptually things that are difficult to speak of, often have meaningful impact because of the difficulty.
It's actually quite clear personally, given your typical content, that you enjoy exploring topics and allowing the information to flow freely.
The solution? Place an intentful disclaimer about what the video covers for a reasonable amount of time, for example 30 seconds to a solid minute after such. Those that choose to continue past that, do so of their own volition.
This shifts the ball to their court, and any consequences due to their choices. As any discussion, it is essential to have a back and forth.
I don't think you should remove it, it's wonderfully done, acknowledging all perspectives. Perhaps the people who wrote those comments should burn all Schopenhauer's books and anything that is even slightly pessimistic or depressive as well? This reaction doesn't come from people who are interested in philosophy, this reaction seems like "cancel culture" to me.
@@Noukz37 I agree with you
Antinatalism has nothing to do with suicide, and everything to do with the refusal to procreate. Also, nothing anyone has ever done has caused the suicide of another. It is always a choice the individual makes for themselves. There is no outside blame that can be logically and verifiably attributed to a 3rd party.
It's a sensetive issue i guess but don't remove it please
I enjoyed ur work
Good job and keep it up
Not every human should be having children. Millions and millions of children get abused and ignored every day.
.....on top of that many parents don't want them after they had them. Lol
No one
@@masterix3312 "Know yourselves. Be infertile and leave the earth silent after you."
Just because one can reproduce does not mean one should. There are so many good people out there that are not good parents, I don’t mean the horror stories one hears of, but just not cut out for being parents. It’s sad how having kids seems to evolve from a logical social norm. Get married and for some reason one must have kids. It is biological but nature just cares about reproduction not necessarily the consequences of that reproduction.
The way I see it
this senseless breeding,should have never 👎 been introduced.
"I never asked to be born" is a thing a lot of teens say to their parents. I was one of them. My life isn't that hard compared to many, but I do think if I had a choice, I never would have agreed to take part in this mess.
If I said something like that to my mother, she would just tell me that I can end it if I'm not happy. And she knows I wouldn't do it.
@@vprez4925 Once my mother got the hint that I have the power to end it, she said that I can't since she gave me that life. How idiotic
@@starlina5621 well you can if that's what you want. I'm not encouraging you to kill yourself, because I think there are a lot of things to be grateful for and since you're already here, you may as well just make the best of it since life is only temporary anyways. ✨️ but it's your own life, you do whatever you want with it.
@@starlina5621 lmfaoo wtf what does she gotta do with your life? That sure was idiotic
Same. I had a horrible childhood.
my problem with having babies is that people think it's a goal in life they need to ACHIEVE. it's not an achievement, IT'S AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING
I also tend to think that many people are not aware how immense this decision is.
I mean you make a Person (it seems to be out of nowhere) which exists in average for maybe 80 years and will think and feel so many things in this extremely long time. Maybe it will reproduce itself.
Insane 2 People can decide to make a person out of nowhere
@@ichbinaufyoutube7441 "lol lets drag a victim out of purgatory to this pathethic mortal plane"
True
@@ichbinaufyoutube7441 yeah it's crazy right? humanity is fueled by sexual desire, sex brings us here and when we get here, we spend our lives eating and chasing it just to continue the cycle
Every muslim goal of life especially women to get married to muslim men wear hijab & produce 7-8 kids which give a golden chance make every country look like afganisthan , pakisthan
NOT having children is the single best decision I’ve ever made.
Me too, I am with you on that. I’m 40 years old, single/unmarried and childfree all by choice and I have zero regrets.
I feel like a lot of people who say "I'll never have kids because I'd be a terrible parent" would actually be better parents than the ones who think they're fit for the job, or don't even reflect on whether they're capable or not before choosing to have kids. At least people who say they'd be bad parents KNOW what bad parenting is. Most parents just don't have a clue.
children are a waste of time and money
I’ll procreate once the world becomes worth living, in the next fifteen years if I see humanity put aside its bullshit and come together to build a better world, I’ll invest into it with kids so they can experience the pleasures of virtual reality or space travel.
@J C It's not that they feel entitled to procreate, it's that they feel compelled to because that's what all animals are evolved to do. We all just make up intellectual justifications for it but really, we're just reading and acting on the instructions in our genetic code. It takes a very unusual person to be able to override the commands of nature. Either a very unusual person, or very unusual circumstances.
@@EyeLean5280 exactly this! No one takes our biology into account. The only reason humans have survived for thousands of years is because our genetics instruct us to procreate, just like any other animal. Reproduction is literally our only purpose in nature.
@Planet Babylon I feel like I can both agree and disagree with this statement. For one, it corresponds with the concept that the first step to gaining true enlightenment is understanding and accepting what we don't know rather than just relying on what we think we know, because when we understand what we don't know, this should ignite a desire to learn not just the things that we think will be most relevant to what we want, but to also learn everything that we can. If we know that we don't know how to be good parents, then we are already closer to becoming good parents because we should then have the desire to learn more about what good parenting means, as opposed to those who still sit within the delusion that they have everything figured out. However, the operative word here is "should." Some people, when confronted with the reality of what they don't know just accept that their entire lot in life is to never know. This is, in my opinion, the saddest of all existences, because rather than approaching this gap in their knowledge as an obstacle that must be crossed to achieve fulfillment, they just accept that this is the end of their road, leaving them stranded in a place farther from fulfillment than where they started. Likewise, some people just truly accept that they will never be good parents, and that is their entire lot in life.
Now, I should say that I do not think becoming a parent is necessary for fulfillment. People can and do live fulfilling lives without having children of their own, but the difference that I see is that those who lead these fulfilling lives made the chose not to have children because that is not their idea of fulfillment; whereas, those who truly believe they can't be good parents aren't choosing to not be parents, but rather avoiding parenthood because they have no confidence in themselves, likely informed by the fact that their model parents did nothing but shatter their confidence. So, rather than approach the question of parenthood by asking "is this what I really want?" to which they will eventually conclude and declare with confidence that their answer is either yes or no, they resign themselves to never exploring whether parenthood is right for them because they truly believe that they could never be nor ever learn to be good parents.
I made the choice not to have children because I knew I would not be a good father and didn't want to cause a child to suffer. I never knew it was any kind of a philosophy.
Good decision!
You never know though - maybe becoming a father would be a great incentive to push yourself to a higher moral standard and becoming the example you want to manifest.
@@kennetheriksen1091 it wasn't my moral standard, other issues I was aware of but not equipped to handle at that point in my life. Morals are something interpreted by an external observer, like yourself, which is nothing to a stoic. The only thing that matters to me is that I acted correctly at that time. My brother did not, and he raised two spoiled, narcissistic children that have the same issues he does, so the cycle continues.
@@terrycavender What a happy coincidence! I'm currently writing my master thesis on stoic philosophy. Terry - you are adding some premises when you are talking about your brother. If the starting point is the stoic philosophical doctrines, I would suggest looking up Malin Grahn-Wilders book on gender and sexuality, which is taking up the issue with having offspring (i think in one of the later chapters, 12-14). I don't think the stoic sage can be anti-natalist because of the implications of anti-natalism towards Being. Being is fundamentally good in stoic philosophy. I do agree that choosing is correct in stoic philosophy, but I would check to see if the premises that led you to your conclusion is anchored in vice rather than virtue.
EDIT: So - the sage can choose not to have kids (and still be a sage), but to hold anti-natalistic philosophy as true and be a stoic is impossible.
@@kennetheriksen1091 you should know that bookworms don't impress me. Have you ever noticed sages are old? Go live your life for forty years, then get back to me. You may f**k off now.... 🤣
At one point in life our parents say to us that life is not an easy place..it's tough...we have to struggle to survive. My question is if they knew it, why did they bring us in this world to suffer?
Because they're like mindless bugs. Here to reproduce and reproduce more death by having children.
Everyday i have the same hassle
@@Cookiemonster261 They did. They must have known, or they are incredibly blind and willfully ignorant to all the possibillities of suffering that a child may be exposed to. No human is THAT stupid, so it was a egotistical decision from their own needs, not from the needs of the child. I often hear parents "jokingly" say: The child was made to give ME cuddles. Sadly, that's no joke, it's just the plain truth for most parents. I especially often hear mothers say this. They felt lonely in life and wanted to temper some of that lonely feeling by making another being. I understand that, but I cannot forgive that, not untill the payback is due.
Because they're dumb.
its just instinctual. We dont have that much control on our lives. Every scene is dependant on before and yet we change based on our surroundings. You are not the man living but you are the man watching.
I would never willingly put another human into the fucked up world. Its beyond sadistic and cruel
all hail you
@@bootscooty Dude - you’re ALL up in this comment section. Maybe you ought to look inward and figure out why you’re so triggered about this topic. Could help give you some insight about the core issue.
@@RustySpoons6490 oh thank you. You're being so helpful
Yeah i know its why im not having kids,its even more cruel being born as a black person with everything you have to go through.
@@donalddudd2105 I feel this on a personal level. You’re almost guaranteed, malice being born black. This is one of the reasons I do not want kids myself
I hate the way entitled parents claim that their kids owe them for bringing them into the world. No one has a say in whether they're born or not.
thank you!!! for this comment...and everyone looks at you nasty when you say this ...but its truth i didn't agree to this ...
@@happiness6746 especially in Asian households
There is a Chinese book called 24 exemplars of filial piety
Give it a read.
It will make you realize just how fucked up this situation really is.
Exactly.
don't see you offing yourself
I'm not antinatalist, but I do believe people only should bring children into this world if they're gonna teach them the importance of virtue and not just have kids to fulfill their own existential needs and to have a reason to live basically. Furthermore you should definitely not have kids if you're doing it for your own economical or social gain or because of peer pressure.
I wanted to say something like this, but you said it so concisely, so I’ll just say “This!”
I was also gonna write something like this.
I'll settle for replying and liking for the algorithm.
i couldnt find the words for it but yes
this is what i was thinking too
Is there any good reasons to have kids? The planet already have enough humans.
@@frog6054 agreed.
What you never had, you never miss.
Brother what's your opinion on this?
@@lovethyneibor22736 I honestly think people should either make love in ways/techniques that don't involve conception or use anti-contraceptives more.
One of the reasons why there are so many is because people have become too eager and dumb to think "slip on a condom" or "lets just do a blowy" or anything, what's worse, they're getting younger and younger. So that's kids raising kids and we all know that's a recipe for disaster.
@@innerguardianXIIIchemicals in the chemistry lab
exactlyyy
One day, I suddenly had a thought that "It is better to never exist in the first place". I wasn’t suicidal, I simply think that it would have saved a lot of efforts. Never had I shared that thought to anyone, because I imagined that people would think I am being an edgelord.
Years later, I read the same ideology from the internet. It was a huge shock, to know that what I considered as a silly thought is actually an interesting, existing topic.
I have a good job, I can afford things I want, and I enjoy the entertainment available in my life. But living doesn’t feel rewarding to me. I do what I do because I know life would be more horrible if I do nothing. The entertainments are there to compensate for the pain of surviving.
The worst part is that, as a creature, I fear death. I don’t have the courage to end it now, so I can only have a dream of “not existing in the first place”. Too bad that my dream will never come true.
i feel you.
Sure as the surest of things, death will come for you. Just hope that your "consciousness", if there is one, doesn't go into another body.
Wait are you immortal or what?
Listen to OSHO please
I feel the same way
"You are soo selfish to not have kids" every time i heard this my brain went overload trying to makes sense of it
Stay away from people who talk like that, their brains are wired differently, not in a good way.
I've heard this phrase from a certain religion before
I agree, and 90% of the time,they never explain why😂
No selfish is have to kids and not able take care about them
The reason people feel that way is because the focus of a person's life (without children) is on only themselves instead of new life on earth. They cannot pass down any parts of themselves to the next generation, therefore they are simply living for their own interests.
I personally don't have any strong opinions on this, but this is why people think that way.
Look, children, by virtue of their innocence, deserve to be raised by people who actually want to raise them. Never let anybody shame you for not wanting to bring children into the world.
Thank you for that advice. I agree with you.
Thank you. I get so tired of people telling me I’ll change my mind. Because I won’t. I’d love to adopt or foster if I want kids. I don’t want to birth my own.
you should also never let anybody shame you for WANTING to bring children into the world tho.
@@josephorossi I would quietly (but hopefully respectfully) disagree with you on this point. The biological imperative to procreate is a drive that can overwhelm the rational centers of our minds. At this point, it seems to be self-evident that some portion of humanity will continue to follow those drives, even when the society and environment that we would populate with our offspring is... Unwelcoming.
I'm sure we all have a friend who "always wanted to have kids". But if that personal fixation has caused them to lose sight of the implication that they would struggle to raise a happy and well-adjusted child in today's society... Then the responsibility falls on the rest of us to highlight all the potential pitfalls of that course of action. I consider this to be particularly true when the would-be-parent has always struggled with mental-health issues, and seems to think that a child would magically solve those problems.
I agree that shaming them might be a step too far. By approaching them in this manner, you're attempting to make them feel horrible about a core part of their identity and/or biology. But more problematically, you're fostering a combative relationship. You're far less likely to "bring them around" when you're simply beating them over the head with ideologies that are alien to them.
@@benjaminhoare5927 i appreciate your elaboration. i should have specified that if you cannot afford them and you have specific issues then yes, you probably shouldnt have kids. if you can afford them and you want them, then go for it! why not give the gift of life to a new organism? thats what i do not get about the antinatalism idealogy. they live the life as an organism but tell you not to give any life to a new organism and for what reason? (like i said, only have kids if you can afford them.) it doesnt really make any sense to me personally because the ideology is not only ironic but incredibly silly and holds no real virtue besides shaming people for just doing what we were born to do, and thats have children and expand the population. the ideology seems like it wants to end the human population. what kind of self-deprecating ideology is that? humans are flawed but why would we wipe out the human race? it just doesnt make sense to me. how is our offspring unwelcoming? are you implying that we are an invasive species?? humans have done A LOT before any of this antinatalism BS happened. idk, im skeptical. it seems like people just dont want to have kids. hey! thats fine with me. just dont tell me and my future wife who are financially stable to not have children. i have a problem with that.
one more thing, why dont antinatalists just commit suicide if they are so against human lives? lol they are all sufferers. i cant believe this is a thing really.
Imagine not having to work, pay bills, loose weight, be sick, be alone, be acompaigned, all because you were never borm? I wish
Just sleeping down in a see of literally nothing while the sound of rain place
Forever sleep just sounds so good.
True
@@elwiito8242 yes
@@romeohio19 did I say it was difficult? Are you projecting or something…?
@@romeohio19 I'm complainig that we have to worry about losing weight. I lost a bunch of weight. My problem is that I have to watch what I eat, or diet to loose weigt as I did. Most people have to. It would be easier if I didn't have to. In any moment I said I had a problem with it or that it was dificult. So be coesive and try to respond to information that is actually contained in the comment.
I stopped a billion year long unbroken string of suffering mothers. I am not sorry.
I feel like I've spent my entire life "coping" with being alive, and now I simply exist
thats something straight up from Bojack the horseman, some existentional nihilism stuff
It sucks just to cope with the fact of being here.
True, the things I hate doing are prolonged while the things I enjoy are short-lived
cope seethe mald
same
I told my mom I don't think I want my own kids.. and her immediate response was: "Then who will take care of you when you are old?" Hell yeah, there are still people who think kids are retirement investment. No, thank you. I will be part of those who break this cycle.
Edit: Hi guys, I didn't expect my comment will get this many replies. Just to make it clear, what I want to break is the cycle of mentality that kids = retirement plan. I never say I don't take care of my retired parent. Me not wanting kids is a separate matter. So regardless if I (somehow) have kids (someday), I will remind myself to never say to them or expect them to be my pension wallet. =)
I’m so proud of you! I too am going to follow the same path.
Great! Well done!
same...i don't even plan to stay a long time on this planet...
@@happiness6746 you ok?
There are so many unlucky children who have already been brought into this sad world only to be abandoned. If I want a kid I will raise one of those!
"This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none"
-Abu El Alaa Al Maari
Glad so many people are open to this.
as someone who live in third world country and dying economy and war zone
i get mad when i see people make baby's in my city it's just feels like a sin to bring a child in third place and poor
Most women in poor and developing countries don't have access to birth control. And alot more are victims of abuse and rape... They aren't given a choice.
It's the breeders in countries like mine that have no excuse. Both men and women have access to birth control and at least some laws against abuse and rape. This too however is rapidly changing because capitalists that run this country are restricting reproduction and even banning rights because they want mindless consumers to be continuously born for them to manipulate and profit off their suffering and poverty.
Poverty is big business and humans are the currency.
Your comment touched me, and i say, with respect: Yes, it seems better if very poor people would postpone or have only 1 or 2 children; but social & religious pressures are high, and some people can't fight against them. We all know some pregnancies are a "mistake"; however others are very much wanted, even tho' the parents live in poverty. i mean, we never know who will grow up to be a great person who improves the world!
i was a "mistake" myself (and suffered several bad things in my life), but, since i survived i just try and help others, even in small ways. So, are you now, or can you become a "Big Brother" to a child who needs one, can you give money to those who distribute birth control or maybe start a men's-movement to talk about why smaller families are a good thing?
Trying to keep a positive attitude in this none-too-perfect world is a struggle all of us have.
@@axeSyntax It would be counterproductive to commit suicide as he adds more value than a newborn could at this present moment. It makes no sense to end the life of someone who is a productive citizen and who resources have already been invested in. That would be a waste. It's best to let the ones who are already here live it out as much as possible to see what can be salvaged. Refusing to have children either though abortion or non conception isn't the same as suicide or murder.
@@axeSyntax that's absolutely very selfish. Bringing kids is selfish
@@lisasforehead495 no it isn't. That's how kids are born, that's how we both born
Since adolescence I didn't want to have children for this reason, when I got married, both my husband and I ended up being infertile. We see it as a blessing.
Sorry but that’s amazing! No worries about slip ups
that's awesome! i have to pay to be sterilized :/ worth it!
whoa, talk about winning the lottery twice
I wish I was infertile
Me too. After getting married I got caught in the hype of trying to have children, but I turned out to be infertile. Now I am tremendously relieved that I didn't sentence another soul to life by selfishly mimicking the examples around me. I wish I could say that I consciously chose this path, but I was not wise enough to do so. I am however content and even grateful with the outcome.
i dont want to bring a child to this cruel world existing sucks
fr
@@avocados1707(says that while living middle class in a first world country, only depressed because of terminally being on the internet and only sees the bad in the world by doomscrolling)
What? All huamns will experience physical/emotional pain, insecurities, struggles, deaths, sickness. That's all suffering that no one will exp. if not born..@@eu_bebo_oleo
@@eu_bebo_oleoDid you know that sperm count has halved since the 1970s?
@@eu_bebo_oleoThe "great" society you live in has done nothing more than weaken you and stunt your growth. It is akin to helping an animal in the wild from something entirely natural that if it can not overcome itself, it deserves to die from.
Life isn’t for everyone. I personally would never feel comfortable forcing it on someone else.
This is the best phrasing of my view that I’ve ever seen. Thanks, I’m stealing it.
Shame that it isn’t your own choice to make
you are all nuts
@Rick Haydn Horst You must live a life of pointless self pity and apathy.
I chose not to have kids because I have several genetic conditions that I would never want to pass on to another human being and because of those conditions I would not be a great parent. I believe people who are aware that they have serious genetic conditions and still choose to have kids are incredibly selfish.
Agreed
I'm sorry for your circumstances but I applaud you in recognizing them and their impact on any potential children you could have had.
I don't think so. If my parents had genetic deformities that passed onto me I'd like them to make me and then let me decide if I want to live or not. By not bringing me into this world they're already deciding if I live or don't and I think the child should decide.
Edit: I hope this comment doesn't get deleted but chosing not to live is choosing to die via bleach if you know what I mean.
@@putinsgaytwin4272 how can you decide if you don't exist in the first place?
@@putinsgaytwin4272 It would be cruelty travelling upwards from you to them if they birthed and raised you only for you to decide to kill yourself. They'd wonder why they even had you at all.
I once told my mom I didn’t ask to be brought into this world and she broke down crying telling me about all the sacrifice she made to raise me and at the end all I could say was, I still didn’t ask to be brought into this world and you were doing a parents job. I’m a woman and I would never have kids ever. This placed is so messed up and I don’t want to exist half the time. So why should I bring another human into this world to deal with the messes we have left for them? If I had kids, I would feel guilty and remorse and I would probably have post partum depression.
I meen if you don't want to exist in this world half of the time dosen't meen than that other half is worth liveing for?? I personaly think than in a world were no bad exsist would be actualy worst than our current world, because with no bad things we wouldn't not be able to like the good things.
good for you. if you really don't want to be here you know exactly what to do.
@@bootscooty Maby telling someone to go kill themself it's not a realy nice thing to say. Just saying but that is not very nice to be onest.
Totally agree
@@nuotatorre8741 that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard in a world where only good things exist we would definitely know to appreciate the good ESPECIALLY because the bad wouldn’t exist
Having gone through the ups and downs of life, I have long concluded I can’t justify bringing someone into this mess. The downs far outweigh the ups.
No amount of joy could justify it in my mind.
When I consider what I’ve endured and continue to deal with, I am routinely reminded that I didn’t ask for any of this.
When you think about it, we are just advanced versions of the first unicellular live all those billions of years ago. We still have the core function of energy intake and reproduction. It works out fine for all sentient life, but evolution never figured out what happens when you introduce sentience into the equation. Its interesting and sad
@@arbitrarilyentertainment8553 beautifully said
@@URAWESOME94 Thank you!
@@arbitrarilyentertainment8553
So much this. Evolution, like virtually every natural process/phenomenon, doesn’t think and instead, just fucks up shit at random because nature is, in fact, a piece of trash.
at first I saw Thanos as the villain but then I thought he's actually right in his philosophy, not agreeing with his approach but his philosophy is spot-on
My parents hang so much over me and I’m like “I really didn’t ask to be here” I said that at 17 and I’m saying it at 37.
My parents: Why don’t you have kids?
Me: ummm because just like I didn’t ask to be here, neither did they…
They thought this shit was a phase… nah it was a principle.
😂
They always think it's a bloody phase ... sigh.
I hate when parents assume that just because their kids aren't blind obedient monkeys anymore and discover their own autonomy and independence, they assume their kids are being edgy and going through a phase when they have a right to voice their cynicism and opinions as well. I am glad you stuck to your roots. A good few can't do that nowadays. 👌
@@TheGoldenPlatoon757 My mom still thinks I am going to be a Christian after coming out as an atheist in middle school. I turn 27 years old in a few days.
@@teemun3979 I am surprised you're still in contact with her if that's the case. I plan on leaving my whole entire family behind forever without a trace once I get the opportunity.
I think it would be a good idea to adopt an orphan whose parents have died or something rather than produce more
same. I don't see much difference between an adopted child and your own, so why not help someone?
@@aaliyah5355 maybe because people want to take care of their own flesh and blood instead of others when they can. we do not owe the orphans anything.
@@bakedcoffee4791 yeah
@@bakedcoffee4791 oh dear, you sound like a terrible human.
me too thats great! and lowers the amount of people sufferring
Most of us are just forced to play a game where you grind away until you're too old to enjoy freedom when you finally get it.
Freedom? You are just too old to be useful anymore, so might as well discard u
Whenever I say "i preferred if i was never born" and people would always interject with "but...!" And i'll always reply with "i wouldn't exist so I wouldn't care!" Then they still continue to try and change my mind and my answer will never change. I don't really get how hard it is to grasp that if you're not alive, then you can't really think and feel so there's no sense of loss whatsoever.
yeah but yo-
goddamn it
but if you are reading this and want to see what i wouldve said, scroll
but you wouldnt win also
so amogus funny haha lol
The stupid truth is that people can't detach themselves from their narrow comparison viewpoint. Their range of results has "person with all needs met" on one end and "person with no needs met" on the other. Nowhere does "person with no needs" exist.
They think you're depressed or something and think they are helping when all they do is annoy you with their ignorance.
Exactly, dear!
what i can't wrap my head around is how you could experience existence and then say "nah, this is too hard, I wish I never existed"
go take a walk in the woods without music or your phone, come back and tell me existence sucks
As a person who loves sleeping, I sometimes imagined that sleeping forever/ in a sea of non-existence would be my ultimate bliss 😂
If only it were that easy 😞
I love sleeping too
i imagine a world where i could live in clouds all alone with my pet or a fairytale partner...back to earth i go😂
When I get a chance to go to the seaside, ever since middle-age, I walk out on the sand until I'm right at the water's edge. And with my arms wide open, I feel like I'm rehearsing for my body to be absorbed back into the universe, like I'm getting ready for the long sleep.
@Fuyukichie Idk if ure still reading replies but I think ud be interested in sensory deprecation
It’s rly relaxing and gives that exact feeling ur talking about it’s only a few minutes and might be costly depending on where u go but hey y’a only live once and experiences are worth a while
I’m 38, female and I have no children. I knew at age 11, I didn’t want children. My mother had my baby brother when I was 11 and guess who basically had to help with everything, babysit, clean, feed, and teach him how to do things. ME! He taught me what it’s like, what that kind of responsibility is like to have another human to look after. I decided then I didn’t want any of my own.
Today I’am extremely happy with my choice and guess what 30-40 years from now I will feel the same.
That is SO selfish of her!!!
They never burden the child's father. They always try to burden the eldest daughter and they don't realise how this can add to behavioural problems later on in life. They lie to themselves thinking it's for your own good because on day you'll be a parent, but truth is they just can't afford the help and they're dumping the outcome of a selfish decision between two consenting adults on a child. I find that so atrocious with some of these single mothers. They won't hold daddy accountable. The only reason they had confidence to continue with a pregnancy was because they KNEW they could use their daughter to fill in as a parent. That is so evil.
I also knew as a child that having children would be a mistake! You have to ignore what morons say and just do what you know is right.
Holy shit, that's me. Except I was 9. My dad died when my brother was one so I was basically a co parent as a child. Never having kids.
@@SongOfTheSwan wow that’s interesting. I’m called selfish and egotistical when I say I don’t want children when it seems like the opposite. People are egotistical to want to have children of their own. Make sense to me.
This is why I’ve always taken “existence is pain” literally because it’s actually true
Incorrect. Existence *entails* pain, sure
@@Ren-dr1dc Existence is an act of love. Whoever exists, exists because God loves that person, literally.
@@x-popone6817 stfu what about people with chronic illness and suffering that are still alive. Where is god then!!!
@@x-popone6817 But what if that love was not wanted? Love can go only one way, it does not need to be reciprocated, how do you argue that life *isn't* just out of limerent affection from a deity if there is one? Or if someone came up to you and said "I love you and now you shall marry me because I love you and say so", would you do it?
I'm chronically ill so yeah always in pain
Seriously, my mother yelled at me for being irresponsible when I was 11. I never know how to decide for myself and I still am. I try to decide by myself, but they shamed me, they yelled at me. I never asked to be here.
She mad because of the mistakes she made, and chose to take it out on you. She's clearly became jealous of you because of it. That's what made her say that to you. Which is vile and disgusting.
This dude got yelled at once by his mom and now he thinks he shouldn’t even exist LMAO😂😂😂
@@Robert.Smith6969 My guy, this isn’t the place to be a jackass. Your excess use of emojis gives it away.
I'm a 25 year old adult with autism, depression and anxiety.
I don't ever want to have children, but I'm not opposed to adoption in the slightest.
Living is hard and there will always be inescapable suffering due to aging and disease.
Better to help those who are stuck here rather than bring new innocents to this place.
Wow Broken Moon
Your comment is not depressing but very true and could really make this world better.
So you agree with human trafficking? That's basically what adoption is, human trafficking. If you do t want to have kids, then don't have ANY kids.
One of my good friends (who had aspesgrers) growing up tried to get a vasectomy as he had already put a lot of thought into it and would never willingly bring a child into the world to suffer as he did!
u are so right!
💯
I believe my greatest contribution to the world is deciding to not have children.
I feel the same - I mean, I congratulate myself every day that I have never made copies of myself, even though I am what you might call a moderately high achiever in life.
Same here. I'm poor and suffer from anxiety and anger issues, which are also genetic. I'm doing the human species a favor by not bringing in more broke, unwilling, hot-tempered nervous wrecks into the world. As if there aren't already enough of those who are destroying humanity the way it is.
I agree with you. At least we'll leave the world slightly better than it would be if we procreated.
Same here 🙂
just being born white is a crime keep with the program
As someone who suffers from Bipolar II and frequently has suicidal thoughts, I definitely think that it would've been better if I had never been born.
The only person who is worthy enough to have kids is someone who is willing to be careful, humble, and responsible enough to not make it all out themselves and what they want. They should think about what the future child would want and whether or not whatever life and family you bring them into is good. You should be prepared to be a good role model first regarding how you are as a human being because the child will have to put up and live with the way you are while growing up with you. Children replicate what they see from their parents. If you do not care and are not willing to do any of those things first, then you are not worthy to have children. Why am I saying this? Because procreation is not a game. Sex for pleasure in marriage is one thing, but procreation is a whole another. It’s not just a baby, it’s another human being with feelings, a soul, and a conscience that can be affected in the mind and in the heart just like you, me, and everyone else in this world. Once you procreate, there’s no going back. You can’t abort it because then that’s murder.
@@arcticangel1628 It doesn't matter if you actually do your best to raise your child well, because even if you do that child has to be thrown into the world, to become independent from his parents, and the world is not a good place to live, at all. You can live the most average life possible and have almost equal ups and downs in your life, you can choose to ignore almost everything but those few moments of realization will hit you harder than anything. You'll realize it wasn't worth existing at all and it would be much better to not have been born.
impossible because then you would have been someone else, keep in mind that we are one.
Me too there’s always been a connection to nature for me ,but a connection to other humans I’ve struggled with
I'm sorry, I wish you to recover, take care
antinatalism saved me from my year long panic attacks from death anxiety . I view death as an eventual “release” from life itself. Its sort of freeing to think about it that way.
Exactly! Antinatalism and nihilism brought me peace as well.
also it's an ultimate part of this "gift" our parents gave us, so, u r right sir
@@abhisheksing8379 same bro
@@abhisheksing8379 what brings me peace is that antinatalism is a self destructive ideology since none of it's followers will reproduce. pro-natalists will inherit the world, and make it a better place.
Rest in nothingness
People that want to have children should have to pass a psychological exam or something first. There are too many broken people in this world raising broken children. Too few with enough self awareness to realize and accept they can't give what it takes to truly raise and nurture a child that has a chance at being well adjusted. or maybe I'm just jaded 🤷♀️
Its always awesome to come across another person with the same kind of ideals. I would go a couple steps further though and require a parenting course with a strict final exam & then a "parenting" bar exam to obtain a parenting license, like what lawyers have to do to get their law license. There also would need to be a qualifying intelligence level to even take the course. WAY too many dumb people making & raising dumb kids.
My idea is to replace the "sex-ed" presentations they have in elementary &/or middle school with an actual course called "Health & Wellness" that lasts from 5th or 6th grade all the way through senior year in high school and you can't pass to the next grade or receive your diploma at the end without passing this class every year.
Basically, it teaches physical & mental health over an entire human lifespan, where sex-ed is simply the physical intro to life. Over the course of the 6 or 7 years, they will learn about the importance of prenatal care & development in the womb, early childhood development, including education about attachment styles (which will affect a child's relationships in adulthood), then about adolescence, where lessons would be focused on self-reflection about their own childhoods & what they've learned so far about childhood development, and then moving thru to responsibilities of young adulthood & middle age, including childrearing & care of elderly parents, which serves to introduce the final stages of human life - senescence & end of life care & death.
And the point of it would be to put sex into the _context_ of the fullness of life, so that during those years & upon graduating, they at least feel the weight of the issue of sex & having kids, and know themselves well enough to pick good partners & _be_ good partners, and make whatever choices are right for them.
I agree so so much! The fact that just anyone who is able to is allowed to procreate without any regulation is ridiculous to me.
@@GhostOfAmsterdam69 So who gets to decide who can & can't have children?
Not even a psychological exam, more like a self-reflective empathy exam that questions *why* do you want kids, are you prepared to raise a human being for the next 20+ years?, do you know yourself well enough for a child to be fully dependent on you?, etc. My parents are good people who have gotten even better with age, but they're one of millions who simply had kids because they were at that age and familial/peer pressure dictated that having children is the obligatory "next step". My parents provided me with food, shelter, safety, and love to the best of their ability, but they were not qualified at all to bring life into this world. I love them dearly, but I would never so carelessly yank an innocent soul into existence because society says something's wrong with you if you don't.
"I don't want to die, I sometimes wish i'd never been born at all"
If i could go back in time and choose to not have been born, i would definitely do so.
Neither would i want anyone else to experience all the horrible things and feeling i've had, and still do daily. Especially not by having me to blame for it
Why stop there?
even if you have a time of happiness you would think a great thing i live
True
that s quite fcked up way of looking at life. if we get into this street we are going to end nowhere but to reject life and creation. btw that is totally understandable if you are depressed or have some kind of anxiety disorder but i dont think that the majority of people who upvoted your comment has something like that. and that is ridiculous. internet edgelord manchilds (not you) jumping on new things to justify why they only care about superficial things and reject parenthood.
It is true. I was born with a defect and ADHD and had to go into mental abuse from others including family members. I also blame it for lowering my confidence to make it in university, have relationships, and get a better career due to social anxiety.
I didn't ask to be born I'm 28. Still with same thinking
hru bro
Same my life sucks
@@Ben_419 are you American, this is growing tendency in Americans
@@pauldirc.. Yes
@@Ben_419 oh look like people in developed countries are getting depression, same is happening here in Australia
No one, not a single person make kids for kids self.
Not a single person make kids for the sake of the kids.
no shit sherlock. people make kids because thats how we dont go extinct
@@magnoliy08 Yea. Children are tools for us so that we can exploit them to continue our species.
@@Wabbajack-kj2kg😂 because for what reason should the human species continue ?! 🥺
@@krystalizedmagic4894 No reason at all.
I think to myself “I didn’t ask to be made” maybe once or twice a week. Existence is pain.
Iv told my mom I wish she never had me , all life is is torture and a mind game. Work till death stress plus mental issues. Those of us that want to die can’t because we will get locked up, we should be able to be injected if we want
I think that to myself every day and I'm not even that depressed 💀
Funny I said existence was painful before when I was really depressed and this one person thought I was quoting Mr Meeses from Rick and Morty and I was like 😳🤔 oh well no I was just saying how I felt.
It's just funny how things are said and ppl don't take it seriously and when it is ppl ask if it's just a quote/joke/bad meme. Ppl are really weird 🤨😂😂.
Why do you think existence is pain? Because you have to work?
only once or twice?
My mother's favorite saying to her five children was, "I hate you and wish you had never been born!" Same mom, same. You made that choice for me.
💔💔💔
I'm so sorry you had to experience that, just know that you didn't deserve to be told that and you matter
Damn....😢
At least your mom produce 5 kids, because Islam is knocking your doorstep to defeat Islam you need have baby or else every country will be islamic
why is it always the moms wth ? what's wrong with women , how can someone say something so heartless to their own children
I tell people I want to adopt kids because it's inherently selfish to make new ones for the sake of self satisfaction when there's other existing kids already suffering. Just throwing money at the problem by donating isn't doing much because kids need love, attention and guidance.
I get called crazy for that.
The only person who is worthy enough to have kids is someone who is willing to be careful, humble, and responsible enough to not make it all out themselves and what they want. They should think about what the future child would want and whether or not whatever life and family you bring them into is good. You should be prepared to be a good role model first regarding how you are as a human being because the child will have to put up and live with the way you are while growing up with you. Children replicate what they see from their parents. If you do not care and are not willing to do any of those things first, then you are not worthy to have children. Why am I saying this? Because procreation is not a game. Sex for pleasure in marriage is one thing, but procreation is a whole another. It’s not just a baby, it’s another human being with feelings, a soul, and a conscience that can be affected in the mind and in the heart just like you, me, and everyone else in this world. Once you procreate, there’s no going back. You can’t abort it because then that’s murder.
Because you're just saying something, some bullshit it sounds like. You haven't DONE anything.
Don't adopt, you are making others irresponsible!!
The ultimate punishment on a life is life itself.
How do you punish something that didn't exist before?
True
@@widodoakrom3938 You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too
@@gleelights9525 accept the reality bro lives is cursed no ones wants to be born
@@widodoakrom3938 There was the night light that faded dim on you at the time of year when the when the didn't bother you at all!!!.. The buzz was going out on you full of the ratchet and insider instead youvtrade there fulls!!!.. That was a CD that needed more help than you thought about the laser going back and forth on the ceiling?!!!.. The organic is what was the dancing elmo kites on you!!!. You fly kites and it will be a slippery slope eith hair inside of ears!!!.. The turtle went to the desk and saw some whirring noises that had scopes in it!!!.. Dot dot buzz light tovyou otherwise
I can't stand people who feel that having kids is a huge achievement or a miracle
whenever my mom tells me that, i never got flattered nor did i understand why. i look at myself and it seems like she only tells me that to cope from her mistakes. she tells me she needs "someone to talk to, a companion who will take care of her". whenever i tell her "that sounds stupid" she tells me "its god's plan dont question it" its like talking to a brick wall
It is a blessing and a miracle, but being a good parent is an achievement not just procreating. I have never had a kid because I don't feel like I have bulit a life so good that a kid would enjoy it.
I know right, these breeders act like having operational reproductive systems are a mark of infallible goodness and the trick is in that, they're some of the worst people you can have in your life. self important, entitled, controlling, psychologically and emotionally infantile. yucky, just yucky people.
@@brookeboland9711 I agree 100%.
Sex trophy. "I got laid once!".
I came from a very abusive family, so I didn't have my son until I was older, after 30. I wanted to have my own family far, far away from my abusive immediate family, which now I have one! HOWEVER, now I feel horribly guilty for bringing my son into such a terrible world. He's in kinder, now I'm getting a taste of our terrible school system. School is more about compliance than learning. My poor son will suffer because I brought him here. Even if I give him a good life, he still lives in this hell and will have to suffer through it at some point. I 100% support people who don't want children and would NEVER say anything to them to make them feel like that's not right, even if I am a mom.
Don’t feel too guilty. What’s done is already done. Just make sure to love him and recognize the fact that he’s his own individual. Don’t treat him like a robot that has to follow your every command. Teach him to question the world around him. I’m sure you do all those things anyways. You seem like a good parent.
This! I'm a teacher myself and would NEVER bring a soul into this fucked up world. Even as a child also growing up in a highly abusive traditional and religious family I knew I would adopt someday to give children a warm loving and caring home. But back then I got no help from anyone whatsoever! And this teaching job itself is so humiliating, every day I have to deal with boomer colleagues and arrogant parents, it really makes you sick. Then you have to go and break children's spirit and heart by giving them a D- or F. Fuck this world or make them "behave".
I understand how you feel and would say that' you are good for thinking like this.
However, I would highly advise you NOT to say something like this to him. He will get confused and feel like he's not needed.
Amor fati
As they say, you can do everything right and still lose.
That's the risk of bringing up children: either the world breaks them or they become a menace to the world. All you can hope to do is teach them how to cope/accept what can't be changed and how to be a champion for things they can.
If I could snap my fingers and make existence cease immediately, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I want Thanos for president!
Of yourself or everyone?
@gleelights9525 definitely for himself, because there are people like you who love the rut system and we don't want to bother you
@@DeepakJAT0007 thanks pajeet my life is awesome and i wouldn't give it away for anything
A former co-worker once said she thinks "having children is selfish." It was really a mindblowing statement to me and I would have loved to have seen my own face in that moment. It took me 5 years of contemplation to conclude I agree with her.
It’s not really selfish if you can raise the children so that they are competent enough to leave the nest. If you just want a mini me so that you feel loved and have a child as a form of property that you can smother and control then yes it’s selfish. Letting your bloodline survive is part of evolution so the act alone isn’t really selfish. Otherwise every animal on the planet is selfish.
@@Emma-yg2uf Sweet Emma, what took me 5 years to understand can't be undone. Fundamentally, it's about not wanting to be here. And if, like me, you don't really want to be here, why would I do that to someone else? Why would I create that in another being? That pain would be my responsibility. I don't really want to be here, I am at odds with the world, and you obviously like living. That difference will always be there to color our opinions. This is not the way I want to live life but the world is what it is. You either join or fall behind. We don't care for our elders, our kids are in daycare, parents both work ,is this the world we want to live in? Where everything grows for free but you need a job and leave your kid with a stranger? No. Sorry.
@@Emma-yg2uf and the simple and obvious fact that you say "it's not REALLY selfish" tells me you really do undertstand. But, like so many others, you choose to ignore that idea/feeling/understanding in benefit of being like everyone else. Because you want a family. And that's ok. It's the place where I started these contemplations all those years ago. I wish you a happy family Emma, I do! But I don't want to be responsible for anybody else's pain but mine. Sorry if I was an asshole to you, I don't mean to be. Forgive me, it's a subject I have fallen into deeply and I don't wish the same for you! Forget these video's and go out and create your dream!
@@sleepers123 I don’t consider you an A hole. I understand you don’t want children to suffer. It’s a good thing you don’t want that, most ppl have children without even caring what life they end up in aslong they have the status of a parent to feel important instead of considering if their children will be happy being put here. Because the decision is made for them and they have no say.
I don’t trust The government and the police. There is heaps of injustice. Kind ppl are mistreated and ppl who abuse are protected. Just look at public schools 98% of all students deal with bullying. But who will go to the principle when the bully is put in place? The victim. There are so many diseases so many evil people. But still I wished life was like a paradise.
@@sleepers123 can I conclude something like "don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you" from your perspective? Because you don't want to be here so you also don't want your kids to feel the same?
I can't wait to die and leave this evil world.
😢
based
There is a lot more good in this world than evil.
@@Ebb0Productions Watch the whole video
@@Ebb0Productions source?
I am asian and I'm slowly accept the fact that having children today is only to payoff the government’s debt. And I dare say most of the Asian country has come to enlighten that have children today is cruel, and decided not to have children at all and live and die alone.
The purpose of having children also means having someone to take care of parents in their old age and for economic reasons - to have people to work for them and uplift their lives. This is also a common culture in some Asian countries.
You will not live and die alone….get a pet,plant, or do meditation. You are amazing, and you have your own path, friend.
As an asian from a third world country, I do agree with you. With the current economic situation and how corrupted the government is, it would be better if children of middle class to lower class to never be born. They will have to pay debt that never meant to better the citizen life but to make the lives of the riches better. Education that wasn’t meant to make children smarter but to brainwash new generations to love this certain someone unconditionally who shall not be named.
I do agree w/ antinatalism to a degree yet the fact of the matter is you still have a nation and a country to maintain. You just can’t let the population reach 0 and have another country populate it like it’s nothing. Anti-natalism as a few gems but with everything practicalism is needed. I would dare say give children more rights and don’t see them as property to the it familiese and parents. Allow children to be emancipated but still be protected under law as minors. I wanted to have 7 kids after this philosophy it’s close to zero but everyone once and a while the thought of having just one comes up. I will make sure to adopt or at least help out the children that are already born.
your not going to be alone your gonna meet people like us!!!thats a lie the ignorant people programmed in your head
Some people bring children into this world to get child support for their own selfish gain. It's messed up.
Yes a lot of women seem to do that with entertainers and professional sports men and the men are so foolish to let it happen-time after time after time. Often, they have no relationship with the child. You are right, it is so selfish.
well thank god im gay.
@@AndriaaLeoLove and the men also cheat on them and get other women pregnant..
@@AndriaaLeoLove and some men like to sow their seed and get as many babies and baby mamas as they can afford
I never asked to be here and be bullied in school and have to be a slave for the rest of my life. God have mercy on poor souls brought here,
Another sad news. There's no sky daddy !
Your short comment brought tears to my eyes
Big time: Don't have children for selfish reasons. If there's problems in the world, strive to correct, fix, or mitigate them. Put the work in to make this a better place first, THEN bring a child who you will love, live by, teach, and compassionately care for. Their lives should always be better and easier than ours have been. If you can't STAND anyone having it easier than you do, then don't have kids. They don't deserve to go through cruelty just because you cannot imagine living without it.
No. Don't make the world a better place. Make it inhospitable.
YESSS. I tell so many people: "they (parents) know how much it hurts, but why do they still do it?"
The answer is because they can't stand seeing someone else have it easier than them! They think "if I had to go through it, then you need to go through it too!"
I think that selfish and unselfish reasons are the wrong metrics to go by, since I find psychological egoism plausible. Psychological egoism states that every conscious, intentional action that one does, is fundamentally motivated by selfish reasons. Some people are selfishly motivated to act good, and some are selfishly motivated to act bad. We therefore need a society that makes good actions more rewarding for those who don't get the psychological "high" when acting good.
But, if we talk about selfish in the common sense way of talking about it. Perhaps some have children for unselfish reasons, but they're in the extreme minority. These are those who have children for their family, nation etc. Perhaps one can even have a child for that child's sake, where a child is benefited by being brought into existence if the life contains more good than bad. But I've never heard of anyone actually having children for the child's sake.
@Pluto THIS!! very well said
There's no unselfish reason to have kids. It always comes from a place of selfishness. We have a biological drive to reproduce. I don't think being selfish is necessarily evil, particularly when it is a drive, like sleep, or eating, which are also selfish things we do. If you really wanted to experience having a child for an unselfish reason you'd adopt an older one.
After my mom died in 2006 due to ovarian cancer, my dad immediately left us and married his other woman. My brother and I were still 18 and 19 that time so weren't that mature yet, our dad left us not even thinking about letting us finish college so we can find a job later on but he didn't think about that. He just left us because he just wants to leave us and he only thought about himself. Years passed and we just did what we could to live while his second wife and stepdaughter enjoyed a lavish lifestyle while we were left to do what we could do to survive and only for us to suffer. It really made me think that if he would just leave us for another woman, he shouldn't have let us be born in this world which reinforces my strong belief that I did not even ask to be born in this world.
Man, how cruel!
@@dollcrazy300 Life must go on, no matter how cruel and unfair.
Sean both my parents were ignorant and cruel and abusive and my father was a criminal. But because of the Catholicism they fought like hell to reproduce. I’m barely functioning. Barely, like it’s a daily struggle. My younger brother is a lost cause. Plus I got my moms ugly man genes (uncle fester apparently runs on her side of the family in the men) and no money … I feel like my entire life is pointless and a fucking waste.
@@getshorty7549 I feel your struggle but I don't think your entire life is a waste. I used to be like that but amidst the pain and the struggle, I kept moving forward. Just keep moving forward.
Much love to you. Wish I could be a mom-like friend to you. Your father is weak. That is why he could not be alone, maybe, and not consider your (very) young adult emotional needs, as well as financial needs at that stage of life. Go forward and be the strong one. Help others. Decide to be a parent or not. But keep going. Find a little pleasure everyday, even if it's a glass of cool water and a chat with a friend. Wishing you the best.
At age 16 I decided to not have children.
First reason: I am too selfish, and I like peace and quiet.
Second reason: for me it's already difficult to keep my head above the water in this society, to not drown.
I have only a very mediocre intellect, and I feel that this is not enough to deal with the complexities around me.
Society becomes more complex, difficult, and harder to keep up with.
I don't want to bring a child into that.
Third reason: I don't see a reason to populate the earth any further:
Why should our numbers grow anyway?
It simply doesn't add to the quality of life in my opinion.
Same perspective here.
I think the same way. Im gonna be 16 in some month and I’ve already decided that I don’t want children. The negative side is that when you tell people about your choice, they start nagging and saying “you don’t know yet”, “you’re gonna change your mind”, “you’re to young to know”, “Our country needs more people for its economy” and shit like that.
I even got asked if I hated babies because I didn’t want anyone.
Also they never say those things to a person who does want children (mostly because it’s the social norm)
surprisingly its the western world who make less and less baby while africa alsmot make up for all the population growth
@@userjsjsks4141 Hold on, be strong. I am a 29 year old women, and people are pushing and telling me to have kids for almost 8 years now. I'm finally, and thankfully, at a point where I can say 'fuck you all' (in my mind that is). I have a job, earn money and pay taxes. And that's only because I have to survive, like everybody else. But kids... no, that doesn't serve me. I'm contributing enough for the society, methinks.
Thank you that helps😊
Every time I go to the store, I see old grandmas taking care of their kids kid because of poorly planned out parenthood, I always feel so bad.
I feel safe in this comment section. It feels great to relate to some people here. I always felt like I was selfish before for not wanting children. My family would always mocked and spit things on me because they oppose the idea of me not having a child. Somehow, I felt relieved after watching this video.
It's more selfish to have children for your own personal desires. So no, you're not selfish.
@@myownpath1046 aww I appreciate this. Thank you!
@@myownpath1046 Yeah, I work in a place where children can sometimes run rampant. The things nowadays I see parents let their kids get away with.
I always knew when I was young that I really didn't want kids. I didn't want kids even when I was a kid. I just... kinda knew. In my gut. That somehow, I wasn't evil for not wanting children. But I couldn't find the words to properly explain it. So I went most of my life thinking something was wrong with me.
There's nothing wrong with people like this. In fact, there's something _very right_ and truthful with these people.
I was thinking the same thing and feeling the same way.
@@melonrobotics I feel the same way. We're not alone!
I decided at 24 not to have children and seeing the way the world is going right now and what happened in the past, it was the best decision I have ever made. To spare someone else pain is the ultimate in human decency. So many people today struggle to feed themselves but will have children for a government grant
Sounds like the system did a real number on you.
You’re exactly the type of person who should have children. Now, you’ve let the unfit to reproduce. If anything, you did humanity a disservice.
Me too!
@@OakwiseBecoming you obviously dont understand. That's fine. But please don't make remarks like that. I could do the same to you.
"Sounds like you still really need a mommy in your life so you create one out of your partner by having a child."
It’s more complicated than that. We have to have children to continue life. Every child now may potentially be a life saving doctor, a caregiver to the elderly, a scientist, every and all people have some value and something to offer.
It baffles me how we can expect anything from someone who didn't ask to be born in the first place. The annoying part is that if we do not do anything with our life, it's not just those around us that will be disappointed - we will suffer as well. And from there we have this enormous pressure to do things all the time and tremendous turmoil if we don't. No peace comes from this, which is ultimately what the absence of life (death) is.
i still remember my father once telling me that he's really sorry because with the gift of life that he and my mother had given me came the curse of life itself. I've always feel kinda assured that he thinks like that, like an understanding between us unsaid
At least, your father is honest and realistic.
lucky u have good father and mother
Good understanding
Ever wondered why babies don't come out of the womb laughing? Not even a single crazy one.
Haha
Can't expect a human to be too happy about coming out of a vag. Can they even breathe?
First thought in the baby's mind, "Im fucked!"
Brilliant
Never thought of it like that. Thank you ever so much! It is believed that they start crying to start breathing. Well, why the hell not start laughing to start breathing?! Right on!
This is one of my first philosophical thoughts when I was a little boy. Why am I here? I didn't ask for this! This is horrible.
I would rather not exist. Life ain't chill enough
Fear of suicide coupled with a hatred for existing sums up my daily life experience.
damn that sucks lol can't relate
My husband and I are successful 30somethings and we are very happy together. We have decided to not have children of our own and help others with mentoring and financially supporting foster youth and others in need. There's enough children in the world, and my prior career working in mental health counseling showed me what bad parenting/selfish parents does to human beings even as adults. We are not anti-natalists. We are happy if others are happy to choose to be parents. We are simply happy with our choice of not being parents. Trust and believe though that we don't get the same respect from others when we respond with "we are not" to the "when are you having children?!" I hope to live in a world at some point when we can respect others choices if they don't affect our own.
what's behind this choice if i may ask? wouldn't you be in a better position than most to become parents considering your situation and thus the "odds" of your child being relatively healthy and productive higher? personally i'm not interested in having children myself and have never been, but i'm not ruling it out completely as things change and after all it is to some extent coded into all living beings dna.
Congratulations on your wise decision!
There are too little children in developed countries. Its insane how this myth made it into everybody believe system. Replacement rate is not reached. Society will colapse as a result of having too few children.
I won't place a label on myself as I do believe humanity will exist for many generations and if children are loved I have no problem with people having children, but I'd never bring another life into this world to suffer. I'd much rather adopt. You don't have to be blood to be a parent or a sibling. It's a matter of strength and the emotional bond.
I really respect what you do. The world needs more people like you. Thank you for your selflessness and keen observation.
You are in another level of mindset, is so hard today find people to share and talk about some topics like this. Keep going! Thank you
True
If you had never been born, then instead of it being your conscious experience right now, it'd instead be one of the consciousnesses that are occuring right now. This is because only experience is experienced. Your lack of existence would not be a sort of "black void of Nothingness".
I feel this either! I really think i have such a different mindset from so much other people..
The hard topics to talk about are hard because we all feel we are not part of All there is. It’s nice when we can admit that we are life experience experiencing itself through who and what we are as thinking creatures called human beings.
@@naturalisted1714 This is something I long wanted to talk with someone about. Intuitively I understand what you are saying and yet it is quite difficult for me to grasp. I think when people, for instance those who do not believe in an afterlife, try to imagine/explain pre-birth/death, it's that imagery of the black void that occasionally pops up. And yet to experience "blackness" and "emptiness" in such a manner would indeed require consciousness, which therefore indicates that it could not be a nonexistent state devoid of such (consciousness). As conscious, experiencial beings due to the nature of existence as we perceive it, we can only imagine a continuity of such a state. I do not know what that means for the nature of conscious experience and existence and whether it's scope is larger than we imagine or no.
Existence should be judged by the worst life ever lived..
not objective mister dumb puck come again and say average
Interesting thought, brad.
The factors that caused the worst life matter, not the existence itself
@@gleelights9525 Society isn't diligent enough to prevent ALL the factors. Only the practice of antinatalism is. The next child abuser is developing even as we speak, whats the action plan of you pro-lifers to fix him? WAIT till he already does the crime?Hahahahahaha!
That's not a fair assessment though, as you're judging all of existence by one extreme. That's like conducting a study and only using the highest data points, it completely skews the results.
I feel so heard. Never realize there’s a philosophy school that’s not nihilism that describes exactly what I have been thinking in my adult life so far.
off-topic but your pfp is 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Same for me. I've felt this in my heart from a very young age and it hasn't changed a bit as I've come into adulthood.
I didn't know either! I've thought this way since I was 6! I told my uncle that I wish I hadn't been born at 6 years old. He got so upset with me that I never shared that thought with anybody.else.
I'm not alone. Others feel the same way and that is so rewarding! I didn't even know this philosophical idea existed!
@@BodyAndSol96 what?! Thank you for sharing! I'm not alone!
same!!
I've been struggling with this concept all my life, in fact my first philosophical question to my mother at around age six was, if you knew that I was going to die, why did you even give birth to me? You've sentenced me to life. She could never answer that...
I had this discussion with my mother recently. She was talking about how scared she was to get old and decrepit and go downhill, and lose everything she once was, and then die. And I was like, "And yet you chose to have children, and condemn us to the same fate..." And she got pissed at me and said, "Nobody thinks about that when they're young and in love and having babies!" And I'm like -- Well, maybe they SHOULD. But apparently I'm the weird one because I actually HAVE thought about those things.
I had thought the same way in my teen years, but lately I found out that I wanted to be here and others too :) there is no such thing "nonexistence" this concept was invented by the intellect.
what if she had said,
"So that i can love you" and gives you a big warm hug. ?
Yeah, i never had any of that either.
Exactly....do we are born just so we can die? And in the inbetween, we experience a life of suffering with a few good/happy moments sprinkled about just to keep us somewhat content? No thank you! The minority deciding what the majority will fo, be, how they will live? That is not freedom. We don't truly have free will in this world. The world is getting worse because of the systems that were put in place to CONTROL us.
Reminds me of the time my sister asked my dad why he wanted kids. He said he loved babies, bottles, cuddles, onesies, etc. we asked “okay, well didn’t you realize we would grow up to be adults, and you would have to teach us shit?” He said, “not really. I didn’t think that far ahead. I just loved babies” annoyed the hell out of me. He wasn’t super involved when I was preteen/teenager. My mom did most of the raising after the baby stage.
no matter how you look at it, never being born entails no harm to anyone
But being born always entails harm. Unfortunately during Benatar and Jordan Peterson's debate on this topic, the latter "psychologist" whose literal job is to listen to people tell him how their wives or husbands are cheating on them, how a teenage girl got raped by her uncle, etc. Can not agree with this.
@@fahadhussain66 JP is a sadist, I don't how he became a psychiatrist.
@@fahadhussain66Kells and windmills and Shay Mccay dark wood cabinets above where there's oil and grease on the high school chemistry lab table leading to lots some complaints from classmates about that all in the different room across the hall you go in and sit down one day.
Next, trip to Andover for music competition in 2 days but then when you're on the bus and when it's a bit dark at six in the morning to go there, and hear the noise while going fast, it reminds you of compounds of the oil and orangish red grease from food
Good luck with that.
@@CorporationscontrolNewMexico based
Life is so sick. Like we are almost forced to be optimists because if you are a pessimist it's so easy to sink into deppression and then it all just gets even wors. Life literally forces us to not notice all the horrors that occur daily around us. Life says: "Just smile like an idiot and say that we have a choice".
And this annoys me the most. We can't even complain about life - because we are immediately punished by sinking into depression. Man... the irony and horror of this... If there was a god - he surely is a sadist
also we get shut down by society for expressing negative views for life..
Well said.
God is not a sadist, the Bible explains why things are the way they are.
I struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts for a while. I’ve always said life is a scam because I’m suffering and I didn’t ask to be here. I never knew it was a term for it
this isnt a term for being depressed. Its a term that its better to not exists but if you DO EXISTS you need to feel sorry for other humans( they didnt choose to exist either). Thats why you cant do suicide because you creates more suffering to other humans. The only thing you can do is doing people as less pain as possible. HOping life ends soon. But still if you're depressed you dont understand this theory very well. Im not pointing a finger at you; im not here to irritate y ou. Just to help you . Peace
Do you have aby professional help?
@@parmenides5032 this is not constructive or helpful
@@amask99 yes I’ve been seeing a therapist for about 6 months now
@@bleeka325 I hope you'll notice a progress sonn
Having a baby is not an accomplishment.
not for the baby, but certainly for the mother. the fact that they get released from what is basically 9-month-long hormonal purgatory is worth celebrating. as for the side effect (a human child), it all depends on your worldview.
@@nyom4297 9 months suffering isnt an accomplishment either
@@nyom4297 child birth is really traumatic idk abt you
@@theebee6034 fair point, but surely the fact that someone survives childbirth is worthy of celebration?
my point wasnt about the 9 months, it was about making it out of them. its more of bring released from shackles than it is about celebration
although its not a very lasting feeling of accomplishment, as theres now a child to take care of
Eren was right. There is no greater salvation than never being born in this world. And it’s as Benatar says: once a certain threshold of pain is crossed, no amount of pleasure can make up for it. I just can’t take make sense cruel and unreasonable world. I can type this using a phone because of sheer luck. Most people in the poorest countries will spend their whole lives working most of the day and barely get a meal a day. Millions suffer from malnutrition and malnourishment every day. When I think of my suffering, I try to imagine that just how the world is far more cruel to others than it is to me. All this suffering and for what? Instead of celebrating birth, our parents should be ashamed of the truly selfish and horrifying act their actions left to.
Who’s Eren?
I really don't understand when people say "you're lucky to be alive"
Work-pain-sadness-unfortunate events, did we really ask for this ?
I'm not suicidal but don't you guys get these questions ?
I get it all the time, but if i had a choice i would never choose to be born.
I have believed that having children is the most selfish thing anyone could do, because that child might not find happiness and would rather not ever been born ,that's what happened to me at age 10
But they might also find happiness, achieve greatness to some degree, and find something worth living for.
@@loganpharis6747 that's the dream. personally i don't believe it's selfish to have kids per se, but people are simply afraid that their depressive tendencies/bad genes will appear in their child, which is totally justified to a certain extent.
@@nyom4297
If someone doesn't think that they're fit to have kids then that's fair, I just find the reasoning of "it's selfish and bad to have kids because suffering exists" to be silly, it laser-focuses on suffering and seems akin to giving up.
If the world truly does suck as much as antinatalists say, then throwing in the towel will not help it get better.
@@loganpharis6747 actually a really good point to bring up. imo both sides of the argument severely misunderstand each other, which only makes the argument worse. personally I think you should be fit to fully raise a child if you want to have a child. its not selfish to follow natural instincts, but sometimes they can get the better of you. likewise, having no children in the modern world is not selfish.
what I think is the problem is that both sides are biased. the side against birth is fundamentally fueled with pessimism while the side advocating for birth is relatively naive and optimistic. I myself don't hold any of these viewpoints and feel like they could both learn a thing or two from each other, although that's wishful thinking.
its not their fault that theyre so focused on eradicating suffering, either. its a thing commonly found in people who were neglected growing up, which is likely why they think having a child experience what theyve experienced would be a bad idea.
of course, having babies is not always the best idea, but its far from the worst. imo what we should focus on is not to eradicate suffering, but rather to embrace it. thats not gonna be easy to do
@@nyom4297
Interesting, I think you're right about the fact the the different sides approach the subject from different fundamental angles. I'm of the opinion that if life doesn't seem worth living at the moment then one should do something about it and make it worth living, but admittedly I haven't been great at following this, myself.
Also, I'm not sure that we should embrace suffering per se, but we should I think atleast be prepared to live with it to some degree, to accept it as a reality of life.
All I know is that I have gone 56 years without children and it has been a wonderful life.
Extreme cope
Pog
Well do you want to have children?
@@Jonfoolery what do you think? “It has been a wonderful life” seems like she doesn’t regret it lol
Goals
To make new slaves ?this world is very dark and you need money to survive and the world is very crowded
And worst of all: By being born, you will inevitably suffer and die. All sentient life is the biggest tragedy in the universe.
may i ask you a question??
this was everything i needed this year. a couple of months ago my mum got into some kind of argument, something about me not doing enough and eventually asking me what would my children think of me if im like this. im 14, and ive heard enough of parents being awful people to children and how dangerous and painful childbirth is, and i obviously don't want to be an awful person to a child or die giving birth, possibly leaving the child in poor care, and the fact that i recently found out that im transgender. so i told my mum "im not having any children, i dont want to" and she stared at me for a moment and said "then what are you good for?". thats quoted word by word. as if giving birth to children and experience that pain or just straight up dying is my only purpose beside whatever "being useful" means. it hurt me a lot and the fact that other people also dont want to have kids is comforting and unbelievably validating
I think you should pat yourself on the back for realising all of this at such a young age. Becoming a parent COULD be great. But it COULD also be awful. It's up to each and everyone to figure out for ourselves what is gonna be worth it in the end. It's sad to hear your mother said this to you. But if that's the kind of mindset she lives by then you're already living a more fulfilling life than she appears to have ever lived. By her logic, if ones worth to the world only relies on the children you bring to it, then every person who decides to not have any more children, is a waste of space. That includes her. (Presuming she isn't having any more kids ofc).
Transgender wtf
As you can tell from someone like your mother, giving birth is sometimes the selfish thing to do, even if phrased otherwise. She's certainly trying to drag you into the life Ponzi scheme.
Whoever thinks the only thing a person with a womb is good for is childbirth, THEY arent any better than that themselves, as THEY cant think of another reason.
That’s the sexist idea that women/females only purpose is to have kids. Having bio kids is selfish. Good for you don’t listen to her
Since I was a kid I have questioned the point of my existence because I have never felt emotionally fulfilled with what I am surrounded with, even though I've had for the most part an easy and comfortable life. That's why, like post-natalists, I can't morally justify procreating given that the bad outweighs the good in terms of the experiences you have on this planet with it's inhabitants.
The best I can hope to do is gain inner peace with myself and try to help others where I can.
I mean true but I think life can be enjoyable and much better but for that people need change this world much I dream once to see how human will most value resource and not just another slave of system I am personally as guy with weak psycho and many complexes and low self esteem think my parents did mistake that made me I was born in shitty environment and some kids around me used my weakness to make fun of me its sucks but have what have
Perhaps a solution could be to strive for wealth. You will have a purpose, you will be more capable of changing/influencing your surroundings and you will have more leverage to be and express who you truly are (perhaps that will leed to inner peace?) and also helping/inspiring others.
@@KasperDahlTangen Striving for wealth definitely will not lead to inner peace. It can make your life comfortable in some ways, but inner peace is absolutely not one of them.
@@godofdeath8785 yeah, but changing the world is a very difficult task, and adults have to spend a lot of time working just to live. i don’t wanna imagine the world as idyllic, cuz it isn’t, and it won’t be in my lifetime.
@@AlexisTwoLastNames well I more interested in changing world than find girls and make kids so if I will find nice thing to earn money and live alone I will have enough time I think
As someone who grew up poor, has no assets, and an assload of student loan debt (100k between my wife and I) it would be reckless to bring a child into this place and pretend that I could promise even a moderately pleasant existence.
Nevermind the roll of the dice that would come with the rampant mental illness and addiction in both of our families.
I'd rather adopt when we're debt free in our 40s and give a child who has never known love, or more tragically, has lost the love in their life and bring them into a place where the can feel safe and secure.
I wish more people could overcome their vanity and innate programming to also desire not just what feels right to themselves, but what is better for us as a species.
turtlebuttmudd
We need a string on why we name ourselves these names. Lol.
Good that you and your wife have one another and that you think as you do!
Your ancestors had to go through famines, wars, sieges, raids, TRULY hard times. Yet they still had children. They had 10 children. That'd the only reason you exist right now. Yet you complain about this? Even a poor person in a first world country has more comfortable life full of resources needed to live a descent life than ever before in history, and yet we're more depressed than ever. Comfort ruins men. This kind of dysgenic thinking is all the product of the unnatural, civilized way of life. Victims of our own success we are.
I am proud of you! Hope you get out debt soon! Best wishes with that! So the child you adopt might have a great life.
Beautiful way of putting it, not wanting to have your own children necessarily but not ruling out giving an unfortunate soul a second chance at love, I'm on the same page
Yes, suppression of evolutionary urges and not doing the things that caused us to flourish as a species is obviously what’s good for us as a species. Just like all the other living things on earth do.
People wonder why I'm so happy and it's because Im a life hater and so I go through life with a clear mind and NO kids
How could this makes you "happy"? Hating life is fundamentally a depressing idea
I don't know if such a term exists but I've been thinking like this since elementary school.
I'm an antinatalist glad there are people who think like me and book about our thinking.
True ! That's why I didn't liked the concept of school and homework. It's making sense now after 10+ years
Me too. I’ve felt the same way since I developed the capacity to think. All this time I’ve just asked myself a simple question; why do I have to go through this hell each day?
Since I had been born I was always feeling a great melancholy and couldn't understand how other people enjoy their lives so much. I was always forced to do things I hated like going to school, working or doing the chores. I never enjoyed, what other people seem to enjoy in life. I don't have any hobbies or interests I like and have absolutely no clue what I should do with my life. I also can't relate to people because of this. It's like I'm living in a completely different world than most other people. I really wish I would never have been born. I'm not made for this world and I wouldn't wish anybody a life like mine. That's why I would never have children.
It's impossible for a highly intelligent empathic person to be happy in this world knowing pain and suffering is more common than fulfilment, contentment, being comfortable and the fact there is little to nothing we can do to bring a better life to those who suffer daily
Ich fühle dich
Maybe you're (clinically) depressed
@@jghifiversveiws8729 or maybe this individual isn't delusional about life and can see things for what they really are
@@redrustyhill2 Both are possible but neither is all that desireable.
I’m 45 and I feel truly fortunate and grateful to be kid free. I love my freedom, financial and otherwise. And it practically seems like an act of cruelty to have a child at this point with everything that’s going on (global warming, pandemic, war, over population, diminishing resources, etc….)
What about when we get old and alone?
@@mitch5222 What if you have a child that refuses to take care of you in old age? There is no guarantee that no matter how good a parent you are that your child will, by their own nature, be disconnected from you. You will still be alone, but sad as well because of them.
@@Muthurtucker ha so true!
@@mitch5222 most humans do not even realize that they are being selfish and cruel. they treat having kids as a form of insurance for their future selves, assuming kids grow up to care for the parents. this is probably the most blatant form of the selfishness of human procreation. this is just using another person, without consent, for your own benefit.
@@mitch5222 as opposed to being young and alone?
I'm an antinatalist because children are a burden and I'm already taking care of a massive burden already, which is myself
Abusive parents who make this even worse:
My life is a living hell because of my mental illness. No way I’m risking passing this on to a child. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
I suffer from physical pain cauuse of chronic illnesseses. Multiple ones. No way am I doing that to someone
what are you going through? And how have u been
Having kids is rooted in ego gratification...plain and simple! Problem is, the folks who most shouldn't have kids are the ones popping them out like candy from a Pez dispenser. Love your channel 😊
that is a dangerous oversimplification, having kids and reproducing is also one of the strongest biological drives in anything that lives. dont let the brain fool you into thinking the brain is everything ;)
@@brightphoton4200 i never claimed any of that, but fair points nonetheless!
@@genesises Speak for yourself.
I’m sure we also have the biological drive to enslave our own kin, rape, murder, and impose human trafficking on them.. But that’s just oversimplification! Those aren’t totally real problems that humans face endlessly throughout our entire existence. We should just keep perpetuating that suffering. It’s not enough that we traumatized the living fuck out of the previous generations in war, literally imposed human beings into murdering each other senselessly over some imaginary idea.
Yeah, *that’s* the dangerous thing here. No not preventing a life from suffering for no reason.
Hard times create strong men,
Strong men create good times,
Good times create weak men,
Weak men create hard times. ☯️
@@StrategyCats What is a strong man? The ones that rapes the world of its resources?
"I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all"
-Freddie Mercury
Definitely resonate with Antinatalism. I beileve in harm reduction, preventing life, supporting those already around & improving the quality for potential life.
I would never force upon someone the torture that is life.
Thank you.
👍👍👏👏
The fundemental flaw with Antinatalism and a lot of other ideologies such as Utilitarianism, which presupposes this reductionist binary world view of pleasure vs suffering/misery and working on the basis that pleasure equates good and likewise with Suffering and "bad", is that that's simply not the case. That is in essence, the crux of my refutation. There is so much more complexity the universe and our understanding and fundamental subjective experience of it that trying to reduce it down to simply just "happy and not happy" or even "bad and good" is absurd. I simply reject the idea that we ought to maximise happiness and "end suffering" for that is an incredibly ridiculous oversight. The idea that "life is torture" and ergo not worth living is a false narrative. Sure there is nothing wrong with striving to have a happy life but the implication that the ideal life would be one that is without sorrow or any kind of misery/suffering and "always happy" is, or to me at least, extremely unreasonable.
@@existentialduck6190 Thank you for your comment! It's always refreshing to see someone push back against this anti-life narrative that seems so popular these days. Yes, to live is to suffer and be in pain, but why is that a bad thing?
@@existentialduck6190 it's obvious that you haven't suffered enough
so antinatalism is basically "I don't have any children because I truly love them"
exactly my way of thinking too, and I also think I of myself already hard enough to take care of already, I don't want to pass on my genes and have my children struggle to learn and be fully reliant on me because of their disabilities
Having so much compassion for the suffering of human life that one refuses to unilaterally inflict that on another person you created to meet your own psychological needs? Sounds very compassionate to me.
@@KentuckyLiz so we’re just gonna ignore all of the wonderful things life has to offer?
@@muki_the_coyote_17 depriving a nonexistent person of pleasures does not hurt them. Forcing a person into existence, suffering, and death does hurt them. Therefore it is cruel to create a person. It is usually an exercise of selfish ego projection by the parents.
@@muki_the_coyote_17 Yeah sure, but at what cost? People like to act as if good things in this fucking life are free, but nothing, nothing is free.
You have to pay for anything wothy. Either with money, work, patience or time.
Oh my gosh, youtube knows my thoughts. I am really fed up with life since I am 13.
Dude you're 13, you'll be fine
@@passthebleach9745He won’t.
Still can't find any counterarguments to antinatalism that are actually based on logic that reduces suffering 😂
Life is swell
When I was in high school, around 15 years old, my friends and I talked about how we imagine our future. One of my friends said that she didn't want to have kids because she didn't want her hypothetical children suffer in this already overpopulated, polluted world. I still think about it sometimes, especially since I myself don't want kids, mostly because the idea of pregnancy and labour scare me, I'm going into medicine and plan on focusing on saving people's lives rather than taking care of a baby and since I'm aro-ace, I never intended on getting a partner anyway and I just know I wouldn't be there when the child would need me (the list goes on, but these are the most important factors)
hullo fellow aroace
@@fvhloof hello other aro ace
@@captainspaceboy Greetings fellow aroace
🤮
Another aroace! Yea I agree with ya