Why did this Roman Road Bend so much? Map Mysteries
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- As a brief break from our Railway Videos, we ventured into Wiltshire where we believe is the site that had the least straight Roman road over a short section. We might be wrong, but its quite a deviation.
Anyway, usual disclaimers apply.
1) Sorry for the glare. We had the strongest ND filter on today and it seemed to make matters worse. Back to normal next week.
2) We are not historians as we point out, just have a love for history of transport, routes and connections, this explore very much ticked our boxes.
Please do check out the following links:
www.paulwhitewick.co.uk
/ everydisusedstation
Thanks to:
www.saxon-history.co.uk
www.google.co.uk
for the use of their maps! 
Развлечения
Do you guys enjoy the odd "Non Railway" video?
NB... As per the description, apologies for the glare on this video in places. An extremely bright day with various ND filters used!
I'm enjoying all the history on RUclips, lately. Railway or otherwise! More please!!
@@Jayenkai thanks James.
Most definitely.
100% yes 👍 These little gems of local history are an added bonus, just keep 'em coming!!!!
@@bobingram6912 thanks Bob.
The Roman road deviates because there was a Tesco on that site and they couldn't get permission to build through the car park.
Best answer yet!
I thought it was because the Lord of the Manor didn't want "foreigners" on his land, but the Tesco's answer is much better - lol!
Thomas Mann Bloody hilarious.
Or was it because the local village didn't want the noise from the Roman Road , so they petitioned to their local councillor who was big in Rome you know . And because of noise abatement and the councillor that's big in Rome , they had divert around !!!! . Not in my back yard was the chant the jubilant villagers shouted and that's where the saying comes from :-) .
not quite true, evidenced by the fact it is not an impassable one way system with an unavoidable bus lane resulting in a fine
The term road only came about in the 1600s (rode). The Romans would have referred to a road as a via (way), with the term street coming from strata (plural of stratum), as streets were made of layers to form the pavement (as in metalled road, not a sidewalk).
I spent the first 20-odd years of my life around this area. I visited Chute Causeway many times, but never knew most of what you told us here. I heard of Fosbury hillfort, but never went. Thank you both for filling-in a blank for me.
Well you were one step closer than us as we didn't even know the Hill Fort existed until we started looking at the area. 👍👍
The Whitewicks if you’re up there again, take a look at the oak(?) trees around the summit entrance. People have been carving their names into those trees for a very long time.
A lot of ancient trackways are in a depression with embankments. They were eroded over centuries by horse & carts. I occasionally find them on my walks up in the Ribble valley.
I am becoming obsessed by them!
@@pwhitewick You are railroading yourself!
RUclips algorithms brought me here. In the States, at least in the Midwest, there is pavement on top of the old Indian trails. You always know because of the twist and turns. Often a major highway runs parallel a couple miles away. They are often called trace.
Wayne Trace, wich runs North South trough Fort Wayne Indiana, is called Leesburg Road North of town. I grew up one mile East on a hill top which afforded Native Americans a good campground. Close and high enough to monter the trace, but not to close. Modern US 30 is 1/2 mile further East. The original Lincoln Highway, (the first coast to coast highway) is 1/2 mile further East. The trace roughly folows the Eastern Continental Dived. Which is why the trace and the fort are there. It was a choke point.
P.S. looking at the name of your channel again, I realized that I forgot to mention Fort Wayne is also called Summit City, which comes from the railroads. It was the highest point between the two Continental mountain ranges.
Glad you are here John. Thanks for sharing your local info.
There are age old paths in North America, some likely as old as 4-5K years. These were not hunting paths, but destination roads.
One of the more famous is the called the War Path. It is located in the southern Appalachian mountains. The name was bestowed by European settlers because it was the autobahn of its day.
This was a trade route. The forests are very thick, even yet, and travel for any prolonged period required a good road. And, it was a way to move warriors to the general area of expected conflict, especially in the time of European-Indigenous conflicts.
Most of the old 'trace' has disappeared under the desire of modernization. Part of it is yet in use, being incorporated in what is now the famous Appalachian trail.
I appreciated your video. At 70, it's doubtful I'll have the chance to explore your land, (oh how time flies), but you young folks may one day get to see the beauty of my people's past roadways.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing John. North America is probably a step to far for us at the moment but one day, never say never.
John Lame Elk yeah there are. But they're all underground.
Satellites using infrared cameras found footpaths walked by the Anazasi in New Mexico. On the ground they aren't noticable.
The Natchez Trace is another that was used by the First Americans and later by European immigrants between the Mississippi River at Natchez and Tennessee near Nashville.
The great minquas road in PA is another one
Subbing on the strength of this video alone. I'm not super into railways, specifically, but I have a general interest in travel, history, and abandoned places. Off to check out the rest of the channel. I'm sure I'll find a lot to enjoy!
Hope you have a lovely holiday season!
Ah wonderful. Thank you. You'll definitely enjoy next Wednesdays video that we have lined up!
I love to find the old sunken roads. There are some corkers here in N.E Derby's but when i lived in Tyrone & Fermanagh they were undamaged. Thorn bush avenues, sheltered & hidden. Leading to Faery ring settlements on hillocks, sometime's to a crannog. The thorn bush is rarely cut down in Ireland so the ring settlement's were often still henged in. A haven for small birds & Ulster farmers shoot all carrion & hawks. You could never be bored there if ancient history is your interest.
Excellent video Paul and Rebecca. Very informative, really well edited and I love your enthusiasm! Keep them coming - so easy to hit the subscribe button!
Super video guys! Love all the history lessons that come with the videos. Keep up the great work.
Thank you 👍👍
Can you imagine what archeologists will say in 3,000 years when they unearth the ten thousand odd roundabouts in the UK?
Especially Swindon!
Places of Worship? (Usual description of items in the "we don't know" category...)
Ritual! The standard approach when archeologists can not work out what they are for.
@@bigbadjohn10 yup!
" These things work without power, are common sense, first come first served, easily constructed, are the same shape as the Sun/Moon, allow use of sword arm if taken on the right. QED early man was smarter than us in our Dronechas'e for Am/Bay. Cheers
Thanks for sharing the feel/sight of the actual well-used trackways. This brings to life the sense of ancient times more than than just the exploration of a site or two.
One thing I note from the old maps when I follow your routes, is the number of old Roman villas ruins. Try using the Lidar filter to see if there are still any footing to be seen.
Just found the channel and ok, I am hooked. Subscribed and looking forward to watching more and more of this.
Thanks Rod. Looooads to watch.
That looked exhausting! Interesting road deviation. Good stuff P&R.
Exhausting was an understatement! In wellies. I nearly died.
Super interesting like most of your videos. I have used the byway from Scot's Poor hundreds of times with no clue there was an ancient track right next to it. Great stuff :)
Enjoyed your latest non-railway video very much. Most interesting part of Hampshire. Thanks very much, as always.
Thanks Simon.
We have friends who used to live in the Berkshire village of Inkpen - I'd never heard of a Way with the same name. Time for a bit of online research of my own !! Cheers for another interesting video guys. And yes more please from time to time.
Cheers Stephen. Driven through it many times myself but never heard of the way either. In fact there was very little online until we found THE BOOK.
Used to be a good pub there back in the '70s.
@@nigelpeppin1219 yes and the eighties. I'm sure I remember going there as a kid
Certainly one of the more interesting videos I've had pop up in my recommendations on RUclips in awhile.
Pleased to hear it!
i subscribed to your channel when you got together with martin zero and your videos are amazing like the one im watching now ,saxon roads 3 or 4 thousand years old thats amazing and hard to get my head around ,keep up the great vlogs .
I would love to see soil cores from the bottom of that valley, I wonder if it was flooded in Roman times, it would give them good reason to go around.
That's definitely a possibility, though it's a dry valley now, who's to say it always was.
Yes, and cores from the track and hedgerow at Scots Poor would be amazing. They could possibly tell how long the track was in use, if it had periods of abandonment and maybe even how much traffic it carried during different eras.
@@fionaanderson5796 need to get into this even more, a definite fascination of late.
The ground level images of that broad, deep "valley" helps me to see why no-one would want to be caught down there by a hostile group, its a X,000 year old ambush waiting to happen ! The Romans were probably here before Boudica so, is it possible that this was done because of some earlier battle, or is it just Roman military prudence ?
To be fair they DID have a lot of experience, and written records of most of it. But you never know...
Very interesting. Thank you for posting this.
A very enjoyable video I look forward to watching more.
That was absolutely fantastic. Beautiful countryside. Loved the history too. Well done
Thank you Linda. Glad you enjoyed it.
It is so important the work you guys are doing. This knowledge is otherwise going to be lost. Thank you so much for your incredible work.
Thank you Suri. Very kind words.
What makes you so sure You Tube won't lose it? I love (not) the total reliance on technology.
@@paulebberson4884 panic not, we have all the files saved on more than one hard drive in different locations, plus what you see in the videos is around 2% of what was actually filmed. 👍
Another great video! Thanks Paul and Rebecca!
Always a pleasure Peter.
Brilliant stuff, thanks Paul & Rebecca
Thanks Michaela.
What is remarkable is how quickly nature reclaims land, and so how fast things vanish that were once thought permanent.
Yup these walks are always tricky in the summer months as well.
Tbh it was your landscape history (non railway!) videos that first got me interested in your channel, so this video is right up my street (pardon the pun!) I’ve always pointed out ‘old roads’ as we drive along, much to the non-amusement of my wife!
Now that I’ve been subscribed to your channel for a while, I’ve watched through your back catalogue, and have only got a couple more videos to watch (saving them as long as possible, as they’re all so good!)
Many thanks to you both for many hours of decent entertainment! Keep up the great work!
Absolutely, anything like this ticks all my boxes for sure. As you suggest 'Landscape History' is rapidly becoming an obsession.
Another breath taking episode. Doesn't matter the subject the enthusiasm is gripping to discover more. Crack on with the next episode
Thanks Stephen. Will do!
Always fascinating to explore why people from history did what they did! Romans built in straight sections but they took account of the terrain and would go around features if it was easier to do so. (That's from my Roman history expert! But you probably knew this anyway!) A really interesting video ... as always. Thank you.
Thank you Richard. These old trackways and routes are becoming a fascination for us!
Really like this. We don't always have the time (or with current restrictions) the opportunity to visit such places. Thank you guys for sharing some of England's hidden history. More please.
Great video Paul and Rebecca, love watching scenery from UK.
Thanks Murray.
very interesting video, thanks! love your content, keep it up!
Cheers Gareth.
Loving your map mysteries series, trains aren't really my thing but I'm very interested in forgotten history so I've started watching those too. I found your channel from the A303 vids, I worked on the stretch from Andover to Amesbury when it was being changed to dual carriageway. I have a few stories of my time there but only one history related one, unfortunately it's not ancient history and it's still covered by the Official Secrets Act.
Thank you for the vids they are very interesting and entertaining.
Thanks for commenting Vin. Yup we definitely don't want just railway followers. Hoping the videos hit a cord with anyone that's interested in random history.
Nice videos all the best luck for the future productions.
Thanks Paul. Every Wednesday.
I suspect that there was a family of protected newts in its path.
Well there is a thought.
@ Ron Seymor: Whow, early green Romans!
Nah, it was an older person who wouldn’t sell out to developers. They built the road around their hovel.
The deviation was to avoid having to build ye olde Roman Railway tunnel, seriously. Great fun you two, and always good to learn something new
Now that would have been a massive tunnel!
Loved Rebecca's laughter had to subscribe!☺️ the glare in the camera was from its trying to figure out what the bright thing was in the sky 🌞 Great video and it wasn't raining ☔️ lol 😂
Fascinating and nicely produced video about a part of the country I drive across twice a week and is not very far from where I live.
The Fosse Way, a major Roman road from Lincoln to Somerset is ramrod straight where it can be, but also curves where it has to. Where it has become the A367 to Bath there are some wonderfully engineered sections at Nettlebridge and Dunkerton, where it takes a really graceful line up quite a steep hill, much like so many of the old Roman roads in France. In other places it has been reduced to a mere muddy track, as at Beacon Hill just south of Oakhill. There it is just too steep for wheeled vehicles and the modern road takes a more gentle path about half a mile further west.
The Victorian Ordnance Survey large scale maps are wonderful and available on the National Library of Scotland's website (yes, all of England as well as Scotland).
But both of you should be talking through it.
Look forward to seeing some more.
Thank you very much Tony. Thanks for sharing. Lots more to come like this one!
Another really enjoyable vid, thank you.
Love you both! And love watching you videos.
Cheers Peter. 👍👍
Fascinating, and something a little different, nothing wrong with that!
Nice diff vid always appreciate your work
Thanks David.
Interesting bit of local topography that I didn’t know about,thanks both of you.🥤👍
Thanks Graham.
Thanks! Loved being there with you!
A very interesting video about one of my favourite places, thank you Paul and Rebecca; it's nice to learn some new things also.
I've hit 43mph on that hit Marcus. (Alas I was younger and a lot less wise!).
@@pwhitewick ?
Ah - (Conhault) "hill" and on the bike you mean I take it - that would be frightening!
@@marcuslee8789 sorry. Yes "Hill". As I say, about aged 16!.... You'd not get me over 15mph today!
I enjoyed the video, possibly doubled my knowledge of Roman roads! Great drone shot, and of course an even better parting shot to sky....masterpiece!! :)
All completely and utterly planned of course!
I had learned that initially (near Rome) Romana's built their roads straight up hillsides and expected their soldiers to man up. Later ( like when expanded into England) they realized detour would be faster, and let the supply carts keep up. You hiked straight up the hill and were winded. Try doing that carrying a sword and shield, and get ambushed by a squad just at the top of the hill.
Not quite. The Romans subjugated the Celts by taking their hill forts by storm. They were more than capable of running up steep slopes and fighting and winning at the top. However, no commander worth his salt would march his unit up a hill without securing the top first or at least scouting it. The Romans were certainly worth their salt. They would know what was ahead and behind them on the road, especially if the auxiliary cavalry were with them.
The more likely explanation is that either the slope was too steep for the logistics or the valley floor was not suitable for a road.
Nah, ideas too romantic - early Roman Britain was bogs n woods which is why they hated it, lost repeatedly and took 200 years to subjugate the locals - if they ever really did...Romano-Celtics set about draining the valleys for livestock.
All your videos are enjoyable, on all your subjects and interests, but mostly the time you give to replying to comments by subscribers!
No idea what you mean, we don't reply to anyone. 😳
We also love exploring. You are in a beautiful area, not far from us. Keep exploring, happy travels 😊📹
Thank you. Yup it is a really beautiful landscape here.
Stumbled upon this by accident, really good vid, instant sub.
Ah thank you, very kind.
I LOVE following ancient roads. We don't have anything like you do but I hope one day to come to England.
Fascinating bit of history‼️ KUDOS‼️
Thank you
I d ve collapsed exhausted as well after that walk 🙄 Nice vid of the country side round there!!
I'm.pretty sure I was close to death after that!
It looks like they "improved" an existing local road instead of making a new road.
Agricultural roads tend to follow the terrain because:
1. Carts and Wagons need to be level side to side or they can roll over over.
2. There is a limit to the gradient a loaded person or animal can manage, and steep roads over time can turn into stream beds because of erosion
So farm roads up until the 1800's tended to wind around avoiding steep gradients and almost always facing into the direction of the slope.
Before the industrial revolution it took an insane amount of labor to create a straight road in rolling terrain.
( Apparently the Romans had a brief period of sanity when this road was made. )
not a "brief period" of sanity for Ronans.
it was their engineering.
I would lay it more that they didn't have the manpowerand the return on investment just wasn't enough to bother with.
@@daviddou1408 facing into the direction of the slope can be going up or down it.
Roman surveyor : we found a good way over the top!
Roman general : I am not marching an army over that!
Roman surveyor : but it won't be straight!
Roman General : who is paying you?
Roman surveyor : curved is good, it will make a change!
That dialog has and will be heard forever and a day.
Football
Maybe he had is fingernail sticking out beyond the ruler edge.
An interesting fact filled bit of history. Thanks to you both.👍👍😎
Cheers David. Always a pleasure
There is a similar kink in Stane Street (A24), between Billingshurst and Slinfold, just west of Horsham. It looks like the road builders thought "I'm not going up that hill"!
That, is, what is called, an inverted T-wave! I had a huge one for over 30 years, then I dropped dead, came back and the inverted T-wave was gone!
Clever.... I see what you did there.
Gee, and I always thought youngsters believed I was just a demented old geezer. Glad you are smart enough to "understand" my joke. But, my comment is a real story. Thank you!
@@irishstew5867 I didn't doubt that for a second.
Hi Mr & Mrs ;-) ... Although I have an interest in the old railway systems, I find this type of video far more interesting & informative. More please ... lots more!! :-)
Thanks Charles.
@@pwhitewick ... You are more than welcome. Credit where credit is due & I appreciate all the work that goes into making the videos (hours editing etc.).
Both of you are 'naturals' ;-)
That's super interesting, I had no idea you could still find that clear of a traces of old roads or tracks that far back
Thanks Michael. Me neither. We want to explore that tramway more.
hey paul and rebecca , i think the roman's built a pub just before it went off track lol , yes i enjoyed this non railway video , i think it was cool :) , great stuff :)
Hey Davie. Thanks for that. Glad you enjoyed it.
I would watch a whitewick video about anything , whitewicks are the new cool 😀👍
...... 😂 Works for us! Cheers Peter.
History tells us the Romans preferred to steer clear of valleys and woodland, experience taught them high or open ground was the best route for their roads.
Absolutely, I am just left wondering why such an immediate deviation. Why not straighten the approach out that leads up to it.
@@pwhitewick maybe it was some last minute decision/change suggested by some supervisor of the road
@mPky1 , Video said there is a big hill. Originally Romans used to built straight lines over steep hills but they later learned going longer route made travel faster if inclination was kept low enough. I guess they hadn't planed the detour before starting the construction. This would potentially result to plan which follows straight line as much as possible but then detour happens when they met too steep inclination.
Another great informative video. 😀
Thank you Stephen
10-16-19 Just Love Your Channel ! Vermilion , Ohio on the shores of Lake Erie , God Bless !
Ah thanks Dino. Much appreciated.
Fascinating video. You've got to love a Hollow Way.
They're very picturesque but aren't they a danger to travel on? They look like both a flood and ambush risk to me.
Never designed, clearly, just occurred through use, so come with some disadvantages I guess.
We'll just step past this hedge...
...and we've just found an ancient pathway. Stories, everywhere.
Oh yes
Another great video! I like a non railway vid from time to time!
Great info on what is right on our doorstep. I did not k ow about the hill fort.
You could do something about Combe Gibbet, that whole area and the Chutes are kind of spooky.
We didn't know it was there either, and such a significant size too. We will indeed do some more from here as time goes on.
Several years ago, one episode of the television comedy series "Chelmsford 123" covered a similar topic, but in that case the Romans were forced to deviate around Romford due to the presence of a brothel run by the local British chieftain (Rory McGrath) and the road was then called the "Romford Pass-by"
Rory McGrath. Well that sounds about right!
I am here from Geoff and Vicky’s page. Loving these videos👍
Welcome Jonathan, glad you are enjoying the videos. Generally once a week on a Wednesday.
interesting video more please love the subject. thanks both of you xx
Thank you Colin. Glad you enjoyed it.
Very interesting thanks you two :)
Cheers Cal.
Have really enjoyed your travels and information on railway lines and old roads and rrackways.
Would love to be able to see them in book or pamplet form. I especially loved the Forest of Dean and Severn videos.
how can 59 idiots dislike this video, its just a video about a roman road in England and a bit of history of the area. The two of them seem likeable and he speaks well on the subject matter
Thank you. Very kind. Yup there is always a few!
Something that has not changed in infantrymen is that they are still limited to approximately 60 lbs load. Average daily march for Roman 12 miles forced march 24 miles. Build marching camp at end of it or maybe fight battle or skirmish. Hard beggars weren’t they?
Very much so!
They Knew a Crooked Man who lived in a Crooked House, and He had a Crooked Style, and Him and his Crooked Cat walked a Crooked Mile, and hence the deviation.
always a sign of the serious hiker and outdoors type; wellingtons and costa coffee in hand ;)
Ooooh yes. That's us.
Just a thought; it is possible that in 700 BC the valley you are looking at today, was simply a large lake at that time. If so, this would explain the curve in the road. Nice video and thank you for taking the time to show us.
Thank you John. I guess it could have been, or as some have suggested, very marshy. I'm sure there must be ways to find out?
Interesting video. Sweep said the reason the Roman road had a deviation in their road building is because they never had Specsavers
Another cool vid guys 👌
Cheers DM. 👍👍
Interesting video, thanks!
The is Derrick. Much appreciated.
Loved it, thanks 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
I find the ancient roadways much more interesting than the comparatively recent but interesting abandoned railways.
we have something similar in Warwickshire where the Fosse Way for several miles makes a bee-line towards Brinklow before having to veer off around a motte and bailey castle which,presumably,was previously an iron age fort.
That does sound very similar. I'll check it out.
I wonder if the title work for the properties used the old roads or paths as boundaries, thus helping to keep their locations somewhat intact? I'd imagine that if the Roman road were to be used for cart trafic, they would want uniform gradients. Great video! very interesting!
Good work,thank you
Thank you Simon.
Nice one thank you both
Thank you 👍
Love the ending!
Sheer panic until I saw it was still recording....
As a matter of interest, the local Wiltshire pronunciation of “Mildenhall” near Marlborough is “ My-n-all”, unlike Mildenhall in Suffolk which is pronounced as written. I also made several visits to Fosbury camp in the 1980’s and 90’s with parties of schoolchildren, when we stayed at the former field studies residential centre at the old school in Oxenwood - it was a good way of wearing them out so we got a good nights sleep after the first day!
Very odd indeed!
The Whitewicks You are corrrect! The old Wiltshire dialect is rather odd, and sadly it is dying out rapidly, if not already gone out of use. My grandmother spoke it so much that when I was first married I used to have to translate it so that my wife could understand her!
Wish i could give you two likes, one for the very informative video, and one for your wonderful language.
Your language wins the like today, congrats!!
Not sure what you mean by language but I'm taking it as a win. 👍👍
@@pwhitewick Absolutely a win!
If I say dialect, is that better? ^_^
@@leifvejby8023 ahhhh. Ok that makes sense. Yes, grew up in a London overspill town so I appear to have taken on board a little what is referenced "Cockney".
@@pwhitewick That's it, and way more interesting than plain boring English, whatever that is!
In the military we never want to be in open ground. Valleys are especially dangerous as they are choke points from which the enemy can attack you. The Romans would have been well aware of this. They also would deviate the road well away from the valley so their approach would not be readily seen.
Thanks for the military input.
Sunken roads are known as 'Holloways', that one in the hedge would have been used until comparatively recently as it is still fairly deep.
Thank you. So why so deep? Wear or actually dug?
@@pwhitewick Mostly wear and weather over thousands of years, there are some good Holloways on the Ridgeway and in Dorset and the far west
@@rialobran thank you. I was under the impression that clans etc had a responsible (as much as could be) to maintain their section and keep the routes clear.
@@pwhitewick It's possible, but I'd argue that's a post Roman concept when roads were 'built' (rather than just recognised paths or track ways) and commerce was an important factor. Besides who'd maintain a road by making it deeper and more likely to flood than to fill in potholes? (Aside from modern councils)
By strange coincidence I made this almost 12 months to the day, it's part of the Lych Way that runs across western Dartmoor, an 800 year old track that people used to transport their dead along. ruclips.net/video/DCTXtcjoqY4/видео.html
Damn, the only time I was in rural England (outside London) I was staying in Andover. Visited Bath and saw whith horses in the landscape, but I should have done more research. I will not go back to the UK as I am not able to travel anymore (because of early old age problems and I discovered back then that I cannot drive on the wrong side of the road).
Ah that's a shame to hear. Perhaps you can enjoy the videos and help bring back some wrong side of the road memories
Well that's different. Lovely video. Thank you
Interesting to hear you talk about the Inkpen Way. I grew up, knowing about Inkpen Beacon and Combe Gibbet, southwest of Newbury.
Likewise and climbed it many times but had no idea it formed part of an ancient route.