is *STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI* as bad as they say?
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2022
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Original Movie: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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Развлечения
I think my biggest problem with the sequel trilogy is the utter lack of planning of literally anything story wise. You can complain all you want about the dialogue and other valid complaints about the prequels but at least they had a plan in place and knew where they wanted to go and what they wanted to happen.
Not for lack of trying, Disney scrapped the story this director had when The Last Jedi ended up being criticized
Edit: apparently Rian Johnson scrapped JJ’s ideas from the first movie. Honestly, this trilogy seems like a shit show if you look at it from the production side
While I agree to some extent of planning things out, I don't know that planning a trilogy out guarantees creative freedom to see where the story could go on the fly.
Even the original trilogy had a "plan" but even then, they still twisted things around
A brother and sister made out in the original trilogy. Planning ahead has never been their strong suit
@@TravisHouze
Yes but the guy behind the story made the changes. So there was one vision not three like in the ST.
Absolutely. The fact that they had no idea what to do with this trilogy but made movies anyway was ridiculous.
A fun detail about the moment you liked, with Kylo's feet marking a path through the salt, is that there are mirroring shots of Luke, but he doesn't leave an impact in the salt, foreshadowing the force projection reveal.
His beard and hair are also completely different and he has a saber that was broken moments ago. I don't know why people think it's a surprise...
@@LordVolkov it shows that pure anger blinds one to the obvious lie Infront of them.
Making their senses duller and more easier to manipulate.
Anger's opposite is Passion
Love's opposite is Indifference
Hate's opposite is Empathy
One cannot fear something they fully understand.
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 Or maybe they just think it's a bad movie. Prior to that moment, we see ghost Luke physically touching Leia and handing her a token of her dead husband's affection for a previous girlfriend, so whether Luke can touch things in that state isn't consistent within the scene. Also, "infront" isn't a word.
That was NOT Luke Skywalker, that was Jake Skywalker... lol
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks the dice that Luke handed to Leia weren’t real. They were part of his force projection. It’s why they disappeared in Kylo’s hand later when Luke passed.
You can also see that Luke is a force projection when he's walking on the sand and not leaving footprints in it when everything else that turns up the sand leaves red tracks behind it.
It's a metaphor, too. Everyone else leaves these red 'blood streaks' on the surface because they're bringing conflict with them, marking the planet with violence. Luke is the only one who's completely passive.
Except he casts a shadow and the wind affects him...
He's also using the "wrong" lightsaber
One of my biggest problem with the movies was Finn, he had one the most interesting backstories out of all the characters and his role in all three movies was basically running around and complaining about the bad things always happening to him as a gag and trying to find Rei
But in this movie he shifts from only caring about himself and Rey to being a believer in the rebel cause. I guess if you’d like to be reductive and say all he does is run around and complain be my guest, but you’re missing all the subtext
@@camsBFIIclips bro who cares what the subtext was it sucks
@@KingKing-cz6xh ignorance.
@@camsBFIIclips if you actually liked and enjoyed his story line your delusional
@@KingKing-cz6xh thanks for invalidating my opinion. You can’t ignore themes and subtext while also giving a reductive summary of Finn’s story and call that criticism. As I said before if you’d rather hate than dig deep go for it, but don’t try to drag others down to your level. Finn has an arc in TLJ whether you like it or not.
Natalie: "Guys... guys? Do we really have time for this?" I feel like that sums up my entire feeling about the sequel trilogy.
Yup, they don't even deserve a decent rant.
Aside from toy potential, when they were filming on that island, there were puffins everywhere (might be wrong about the type of bird). Instead of having to CGI them all out, they just covered them with CGI Porgs.
You got it right, definitely puffins.
they look like practical puppets to me!
If Im not mistaken, many shots just have the regular birds there.
Yeah that sounds like something that really had happened and not a completely made up lie to justify these creatures to sell merch. Bcs it's obviously easier to make a charactermodel and a bunch of animations instead of just cutting them out of the footage. I hate the sequels.
I can appreciate the respect for Domhnall Gleeson's (General Hux) voice. Fantastic actor. You should watch him in a charming little movie called About Time. He's also in another solid film Ex Machina.
Frank is underrated as well
@@sauce1302 I've not seen it. I'll check it out. Thanks.
He over-acted as Hux. Everybody except you says so.
@@faisalmemon285 troll harder. What in my posted comment has me praise the performance as Hux, which is as much direction as acting?
Maybe have someone literate read it to you to make it easier.
@@JamesSerapio In your friggin original post you said that you admired Domhall Gleeson’s General Hux especially his voice. His voice gave that splattering spraying speech in Farce Awakens which showered all the troops with his saliva. So it was you who said his voice was fantastic. Read your own post before you insult others.
10:11 LMAOO idky seeing finn wake up in absolute panic calling out for rey is sending me LOL finns entire arc was literally just him going "rEy?!" "wheres REY?!"
The lack of planning for this trilogy absolutely shows. The best movie of the sequel trilogy was easily the first one and that's largely cause it just steered towards a new hope. The other two feel like massive uncoordinated pendulum swings in entirely different directions. And neither direction was executed well
Pretty much Rian Johnson took everything JJ Abrams setup up, threw it in the trash and took a severe left turn. Awful writing, just awful. A waste of all the original characters and suddenly and unfulfilling ends to plot points set up in the previous movie.
@@thomasharfst3381 JJ Abrams didn't set up anything other than a soft reboot.
I think TLJ is the best
@@thomasharfst3381 Well, not all of it. But giving an auteur free hand with little forward planning for the (then Colin Trevorrow's) third part, seems to be a big own goal on Eisner, Kennedy and the rest of Disney's part.
At least Johnson took some chances, here and there. Whether they at all worked is the wider question.
I will say I did not hate all of them, though. Many did seriously need more fleshing out or justifying, however.
Now I HEAR JJ did story treatments for Episodes 8 and 9 (supposedly on pinkish paper, seen online) but the authenticity of these has never been confirmed. He'd already agreed to stand back for other directors by that point, though - I gather.
It really felt less like a trilogy and more like a bitter custody battle, with both directors trying to course-correct the other.
I’ve always said this about the new trilogy: they’re visually pleasing to the eyes, but don’t think about it. If you think about it, then you see how awful it is.
Don't agree with you on that
And don't listen to the prequels or your ears will bleed.
Haha no thinking allowed!
@@NatalieGoldReacts I seriously don’t understand how people can think this is a worse movie than any of the prequels. Like come on are we watching the same movies? No sequels aren’t great but it’s a night and day difference in quality from the prequels. Disappointing to see you jumping on the bandwagon to please people
@@Bluerock121 the prequels have a clear story arc throughout. These last three each had a different idea of how they wanted the story to go. Had the story been consistent they would be better, but I’ll take bad script over bad writing any day
They actually, with Carrie Fisher's family's blessing I think, used footage made during Episode 7 and 8 that didn't get put in those movies, along with stand ins for some shots, and Carrie does appear in the Episode 9 that way. It isn't ideal but they didn't want to recast Leia.
It would've been kinder to not have her in the last one at all. Feels like they paraded a corpse around in order to make their money.
One can't pretend there was any artistic value to it.
@@Mallard942 yeah it was a little sad seeing that.
Her daughter Billie Lourd actually did all the stand in work for Leia in 8&9 in addition to her on screen work as Connix❤
@@gonzothompson4686 that is true yes. She had those bon bons on the side of her head, too. 😁
37:20 when you go back and watch this part, you notice that Luke never moved any of the salt unlike every other person flying across or walking on it. Pretty cool.
She said "Everyone is just related to each other", as she rolls her eyes.
Oh girl, if you only knew just how bad this writing is going to get..
It actually gets worse than Game of Thrones season 8. Quite the accomplishment.
**"Reylo" and the inbreeding coefficient intensifies**
@@thatHARVguy Rey isn't related to Kylo, though.
@@Heavensrun The article was written before RoS, and tried to reinforce the Reylo shipping.
@@Heavensrun They're first cousins once removed. Rey is Leia's cousin.
Palpy+Shmi (via Force magics) -> Anakin -> Leia -> Ben
Palpy -> Palpy's son -> Rey
The movie is visually beautiful, but it can be summed up as "nothing matters."
Does Luke's isolation and turmoil serve a purpose for the overall story? no.
Is the big bad guy important? not really.
Does Rey's internal conflict with her past turn into something that she learns from? not really.
Will anything that happened in this movie mean anything in the next movie? absolutely not.
lol
Does Luke’s isolation and turnout serve a purpose for the overall story?
Well since this is his arc to start off low but to be raised back up through the story I’d say yes it is important.
Is the big bad guy important?
Well since the actual main bad guy is Kylo he is quite important.
Does Rey’s internal conflict about her past turn into something she learns from?
Well this story is about Rey learning her past doesn’t define her and what’s important is what she does, not who her parents were.
Will anything that happens here affect what happens in the next film?
Well that’s not really anything this film has an control over, it’s the next film which is a discussion for another time.
@@PaceFilmsProductions Ur right about Luke starting off low…. But let’s be honest…. Luke being afraid of the world around him doesn’t really suit the personality of Luke. And the explanation for it is Luke seeing some darkness in a guy who isn’t dark at that moment…..
And Snoke was a really interesting character and it was actually the biggest threat but knowing nothing about him really made me sad.
But I defenitely agree with the fact that TROS has nothing to do with this movie although I think it was hard for JJ Abrams to end the Trilogy with the results of this movie
@@PaceFilmsProductions Quit being the battered wife and justifying trash.
@@ar21end85 Exactly. My main issue with this film is that Luke doesn’t feel like Luke. Luke saw the good in his father even when no one else did. So like 20 years later you’d think he’d be even more mature and just talk to Ben and try to help him before attempting to just kill his own nephew…
This strikes me as a pretty bad take. Literally every single thing you listed IS important for a variety of reasons, but you've just decided to make a list saying they are not. It's like saying Does gravity exist? No. Is the sky blue? No.
Sorry, a bit late to the party, and I don't know if anyone's mentioned it..
About the porgs. Certainly, a good toy possibility, but what actually happened is that the island where they filmed the ancient Jedi temple stuff is a protected puffin reserve. Rather than try to digitally erase all the puffins on the island that were caught while filming, they instead altered them into the porgs. Mostly because the alterations ended up being cheaper than erasing all the damn things (they were -everywhere-)....
The irony of the latest trilogy is that Disney "removed" almost all books/games/stories in general and made them "non canon" just to make 3 movies that are meh at best.
The Leia in space scene is stupid as shit, and also they should have let Finn sacrifice himself. Both he and Rose did literally fuck all through that entire movie.
tbf, no one did anything, period.. soo .. how bout them Visions tho?
@@StayFractalesque visions came out last year? Thats like 10 years after disney bought SW and made "everything" obsolete, also disney produced it themselves. I was obviously not including that.
Lucas did the same before, so nothing new and nothing special fron Disney. Lucas already made it clear when Empire came out: There may be books, comics or anything but when he makes his next movie, nothing of this will matter and this is how the SW movies always were made. There never was an overall "canon".
I do miss the Expanded Universe. A lot of it could be passed up but there was still so much that could be considered great Star Wars stories!
@@Nortic111 But it's still there. SW is fiction and there's no problem with two or more different storylines. The concept of a "canon" is not the same as to agree on facts to provide historical accuracy but to frame the narrative contextuality of a storyline. And it's no problem to have parallel narrations. It's even liberating to release these storylines from the movie canon, because now it's possible to expand them without being restricted by a canon protection comittee of sorts. Comic books do that all the time since decades.
If they had just planned out the story beats of the trilogy, kept the same writers and directors for all three, it would have been cohesive at least. Hate to say it, but the prequels, for all their faults, were a cohesive trilogy, with clear intent from beginning to end.
You don't need the same writers and directors imho, the OT were all different people (with Lucas always being involved ofc). They should've had a coherent vision though.
The OG trilogy was made up as much on the fly, with the story coming just from Lucas, and had as many issues because of it.
@@scelonferdi agree. A lot of people want to blame the "different writer/director" thing but that isn't it. The problem was that all three movies tried to be different things separate from one another whereas the original trilogy was all the same thing (space opera). Episode 7 was a soft reboot. Episode 8 was a "subvert expectations" tragedy of attempting to make social commentary (not what Star Wars is for), and the third was obviously just the studio panicking.
@@sfodd1979 I came to say this too, but so many people refuse to see the stuff they like as it really is.
You know, everyone shits on Rian Johnson for this movie but I honestly don't think having Abrams at the helm for all three would have worked, either. He showed how "good" he could do with Episode VII, which wasn't very inspiring beyond unapologetic nostalgia bait through grossly rehashed plot points and recycled story elements. Then he showed how badly he could do the same thing with Episode IX. I'm not convinced that the same director for all three was necessary (the original trilogy had three different directors, after all) but I am convinced it _definitely_ shouldn't have been JJ Abrams.
But I do agree that these movies should have had _some_ of the same writers, if nothing else than having someone in a George Lucas role, who had the basic story treatment and synopsis fleshed out before handing the screenplays off to others like Lawrence Kasdan who could turn his lead scripts into cinematic gold.
Would love to see a Good Will Hunting reaction. Would be surprised if you haven’t already seen it given how beloved the movie is, but if you haven’t you definitely should give it a try.
Aww I have seen that one!! Loved Robin Williams in it
@@NatalieGoldReacts Natalie, when are you going to watch Superman: The Movie (1978) and do a reaction? It's so much more balanced as opposed to some of the "dude" humor in the modern Marvel movies. Please watch it, since the script and performances set the standard for a good superhero movie. You won't be disappointed!
Primal Fear
The Porgs were actually added into the movie because the island they filmed for Ach-To (where they found Luke) was actually heavily-populated by Puffins, and they couldn't get rid of them for filming, so they just CGI'd the Porgs over the Puffins.
The Porgs were an Attempt by Disney to introduce a cute toy to sell.....don't delude yourself
@@Ami-vh7sr yeah for sure, but the puffin story is a legit fact... your the one "deluding yourself" they cgi'd over puffins is just a fact. no need to be a salty little bitch about it
The issue I have with this movie is how Disney just failed to understand basic character development from the legacy characters. Lets take Luke, a farm boy who grows knowing nothing about his father. Finds out his dad is one of the worst people in the galaxy, get his hand chopped off by him, then risks the whole rebellion trying to find the good in him. Tell me how this guy just gives up and goes to hide than doesnt even show up when his sister needs him. This is what killed new Star Wars for me.
You mean like ... during Return of the Jedi... when the stolen shuttle Tydirium trying to sneak a landing on the Sanctuary Moon, unnoticed, with the Strike Team to disable the shield generator... they pull up, the first thing out of Luke's mouth is "Vader's on that ship. I'm endangering the mission. I shouldn't have come."
Even Luke's interactions with Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back lay this foundation.
"If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered."
@@reflectionist Luke indicating he shouldn't have gone on a particular stealth mission isn't the same as Luke hiding away from the world. That's a false equivalency.
@@reflectionist It laid a foundation for him to do something unexpected, perhaps, but a coward he is not. Luke's character was all about taking action even when the odds were against him, and this movie took that away from him.
Its almost like being dragged into a bloody war as a teenager leaves profound scars on a person.
@@lippoe No, it wasn't cowardice. He made an arrest.
"We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers."
By fighting at all, the Jedi lost.
"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting."
"If you leave now, help them you could, but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered."
"Vader's on that ship. I'm endangering the mission, I shouldn't have come."
To answer your question about Rey having the books:
Yes. She did take them from Luke's library. Master Yoda alluded to much.
Don't forget: he did say "That library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess."
For me, the discrepancy is about being informed by the books (so reading them), but not being bound by them. The worldbuilding for Star Wars is just a whole load of rule-of-cool nonsense, so what the Last Jedi tried to do made perfect sense - remove the Jedi and the Sith, and to create new force adversaries that had some degree of coherence to them
@@CaptLoquaLacon LOL “established lore was bad, so this corporate cash grab had to fix it”
This movies demographic? People who don’t understand and like Star Wars 🤡
Glad to find someone who was paying attention on this sea of braindead haters.
@@WesMordine The thing people also need to remember:
Luke only learned the very basics from Obi-Wan in the span of a couple hours at most while on the Falcon.
Even with the length of time in between Empire and Return, he only trained with Yoda for a few weeks. Most of his knowledge came from the books at Kenobi's place while he rebuilt his lightsaber.
Rey had about as much training under Leia and Luke as Luke had under Obi-Wan and Yoda, so she would've more than likely learned from books as Luke did.
One of my biggest issues with this movie was the whole Finn/Rose sidequest. You could cut out that whole subplot and lose nothing.
Nothing besides major thematic ideas/beats, major character development, cool new locations, and interesting world building. Yeah you're right, you'd lose nothing.
Nothing, other than Finn learning what he's fighting against, turning him from a First Order deserter to a REBEL.
This goes to the heart of the issue. As close as they were to the center of the plot and as much as they were involved in, none of it actually contributed to the plot. What was their contribution?
Character development? There was some character development. It didn't contribute to the plot.
Contribution to the movement of the plot? Not really. They did some stuff. That stuff really wasn't important.
Literary meaning? If nothing else, did they have some literary meaning that supported the central vision of the movies? There was some meaning, but there wasn't much of a vision to support. They were kind of a Meh movie inside of a Meh movie. That's not central to the plot but indicative of its failings.
@@jimpemberton Finn (and the audience) learned what Rose already knew, that repeating the same patterns of war and rebellion only served to reward the already rich and powerful who had a vested interest in the status quo.
Find had to learn this as he was just a deserter with no reason to stay with the Resistance, other than a one-way attraction to Rey.
It also showed us that the "old way" wasn't actually going to change anything, and that they can't just keep fighting "Star wars", they need to fight the system that causes the issues in the first place.
It's the thesis of the movie, every plot line SCREAMED "let the past go, fight for better things".
Luke tried to recreate the Jedi Order that failed due to its own hubris, and so did he. He ran away to seclusion because he failed, just like Ben and Yoda taught him. He repeated the mistakes of the past.
Rey is trapped by the mistakes of the past, she has no agency of her own and relies on others to *tell* her who she is.
Poe is stuck as the Hotshot wildcard, no thought or planning just diving in.
Kylo Ren is stuck trying to be Darth Vader.
Hux is stuck as high as he can go in the First Order, but is largely powerless because he doesn't have the throne, and those that do are capricious loons.
Holdo and Leia are the only people who see the need to break the old patterns, but they're stuck with people who haven't realised there's a need to change.
By the end of the movie everyone has realised what needs to be done, the changes that need to be made and then TROS just repeated all the same old mistakes and made every film before it worse.
The Last Jedi is a good good movie, is DROWNING in character development, and acted perfectly as a middle act at the same time, but the higher ups listened to the worst parts of the Internet and decided repeating mistakes and diminishing returns was the way to go.
@@SkageXL5 There's a difference between plot and thesis. Everything you are saying is true, but only demonstrates that we were being preached a modern political agenda with very little in the way of actual plot. If everything was screaming the thesis, then it could be boiled down to one thing saying it more effectively. All this made it fairly unenjoyable.
“Not by fighting what we hate, by saving what we love” as she allows the First Order to destroy what she loves in the background….
They destroy a door. All the survivors escape.
@@Aewon84 Rose had no knowledge of that escape route whatsoever, so that doesn’t count
As she stops finn from saving what he loves
This trilogy for me was like watching three different movies that went from, "I'll accept The Force Awakens because I've been waiting 3 decades to find out what happened to Luke, Leia, and Han", to The Last Jedi which was just awful with zero character arc that killed the main character of the original trilogy after casting him as a space cow milk drinking wussy, to The Rise of Skywalker which left me shaking my head. The only redemption was when "The Mandalorian" ended with Luke returning as the young bad ass Jedi Master we all wanted.
Good lord i hated TLJ.
Did her reaction to force awakens get taken down? Or am I just terrible at finding it?
"We all wanted" so you just wanted to see Luke live a happy life being a Jedi/hero? Its worth one comic. I think Its way more interesting to see Luke not being a perfect master, because his human, and the character was never made to be a Jedi master that create a new Jedi order, he's a hero who learn from the past generation, having him hesitate to kill his own nephew goes well with the theme that the Jedi are not some perfect sage, there are also full of default.
@@Narmer669 went completely against his character. Seriously you think the man that turned Vader would attack his nephew because he had a bit of darkness on him?
@@matthewsmith2979 I mean, Luke went HAM on Vader for suggesting that he'd turn Leia. If anything, it shows that Luke's fear of loss is still very much a part of his character, only the costs of this fear are more dangerous.
I thought this was an incredibly frustrating movie to watch. There were a lot of ideas that could have made for a great movie but most of them were poorly executed and they often were in conflict with one another. There were serious problems with the tone both within the movie and with respect to the tone in other films in the franchise. And the writer/director seemed so focused on subverting expectations that he basically killed all of the possible story arcs and reveals that The Force Awakens set up for him.
what did TFA set up that he didn't follow through on? because he was busy subverting..
@@StayFractalesque It's not that he didn't follow through, it's that he followed through in a manner that subverted expectations and effectively killed them going forward. Who are Rey's parents is the most obvious example, although they kinda salvaged this in The Rise of Skywalker.
@@StayFractalesque
Rey's parentage - Her parents were nobodies
Kylo's obsession with Vader - He smashes his mask and decides to be evil regardless
Finn's interest in Rey - Forget it, we've got Rose
Poe - The first movie did nothing with him, and the second movie continues to do nothing with him
Luke's disappearance - Solve the mystery of why he left by completely changing his character into a jaded asshole, then kill him at the end
Leia - *Almost* give her an impactful death, then undo it so her character's still alive even when Carrie Fisher isn't.
The Resistance - Completely decimated, and reduced to 20 people in a single ship.
Hux - Turned into a comedy relief character
Snoke - Dead before we know who he was or what he was trying to accomplish
Captain Phasma - The one character who relates to Finn's time as a stormtrooper and she dies unceremoniously.
@@cassesvultus43 They definitely didn’t salvage Rey’s parentage in Rise of Skywalker, they made it worse by being too chicken to follow through
@@StayFractalesque Doing a HD remake of ANH is not a set up, unless you were expecting TLJ to be a HD remake of ESB lol
"Do we have time for this?" really fits this movie. IF only they would have had a plan thought out for this triology it would have been much better
It didn't help that Lucas had the scripts done and Bob Iger decided to thrown them in the bin and get others to write it
@@scorp77snake damn I didnt know that
@@marcusolsson9541 Iger didn't want to take chances, so made JJ make TFA as ANH v2.
"Do We have time for this?" is something i find myself saying a lot lately with Nu Trek as well.
@@marcusolsson9541 that's wrong. Lukas never finished them
Although I like The Last Jedi less than The Force Awakens, I think it's a more interesting film. The problem, as most here seem to agree, is that the trilogy pulls into at least two different directions and lacks overarching story structure. I wish the trilogy had stuck with either director over all three movies. And although I loved The Force Awakens (dispite its flaws) and only liked The Last Jedi just fine, I think I'd prefer a Rian Johnson trilogy over a JJ Abrams trilogy.
Rian Johnson's "Rogue One" is the best non-Lucas Star Wars film. I agree that he should have been in control of the last trilogy.
@@cyrilmauras4247 Rian Johnson had no involvement writing or directing Rogue One.
FACTS. Rian Johnson is a creative dude, what he wanted to do just didn't fit into the scope of one film. I think Rian was a little obsessed with being different, and Abrams was WAY too obsessed with being the same. But if Johnson got a chance to be CONSISTENTLY different across three *_cohesive_* movies.... then damn they'd be good.
@@hollykm I love seeing this. Most peoples complaints of rian Johnson’s direction (things like Luke being a hermit) is because of things Abrams set up in e7. I think Johnson gets too much hate, ep 8 is the best directed film in the sequels imo and is the most visually stunning. I think if rian had the whole trilogy it would’ve been better for sure.
I don't agree or disagree, because I don't know what you're trying to say. Please elaborate.
The leia in space scene really just took me out of the movie and honestly that was still stuck in my mind and put a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the movie.
yeah .... but the real bad taste in my mouth came of the "blue milk" drinking hermit (and lol the Hermit did agree to that as well ;) )
In theater , a guy singed superman them at this moment and all in the room laught , the movie lost me at this moment
the lightsaber toss took me out of the movie, everything that was stupid after that, like that scene, just made me see it as a joke, a bad taste joke...
in the comics, she does train to wield the force, but since the movie doesnt aknowledge the comics, you wouldnt know that as an audience member, which is a big oversight.
The movie jumped the shark like 10 times in the first act to me
Yay. Another "it was meh" person. I was beginning to feel alone in that. (EDIT: And by "meh" I mean I had no strong feelings about it either way. It was a crushingly average movie) And I agree whole-heartedly about the comedy presence in the film. Hollywood REALLY leaned into that quippy, witty dialogue and crammed it in wherever it would fit. Marvel does it and is a big success, so it MUST work elsewhere - it doesn't. It can feel, no pun intended, really forced with not applied well. Different characters should have different comedic styles, tones and methods. Not everyone is a sassy quip machine and it's really tiring how much Hollywood started relying on that.
You are not alone.
You felt alone? Sigh.
Last Jedi was meh. Very anticlimactic. It was so cliche and pointless. I watch it just to laugh how ridiculous it is.
The reason Mavel has to turn it's movies into comedies, is because there is no drama around the actual fighting, because there is no way to know what magical power is hurting what magical entity.
Are they injured? Did that blast do something? Are they dead? CAN they die? Does it even matter that he was thrown through a wall?
There is no tension built up in the struggle when the effects carry no discernable weight.
These movies are trying to be "Star Wars" whereas the original Star Wars trilogy is a masterpiece because it wasn't trying to "be" anything.
In trying to "be" Star Wars, they basically copied everything from the originals and recreated the bad guys as the exact same thing as if the original movies never happened and had no purpose.
Then they try to "be" Star Wars by forcing humor, rather than letting it happen naturally through the characters.
I think the difference is that Marvel writes realistically. Jokes and quips are common in daily speech, especially in other countries where the film needs to land well, but not every single sentence you say needs to be a joke, and not every action needs to lead to one, and that’s what Star Wars did
It's a thing in star wars that force sensitivity is pretty common and often manifests subtly. Frequently people are unaware that they are using the force. Sometimes it's obvious like the boy pulling things he's reaching for, but other times it takes a trained eye. Anakin for instance was constantly looking into the future, but most (including himself) wrote it off as just being quick on the up take or sharp reflexes.
Isn't there a fan theory or EU book saying Han Solo is low key Force sensitive, manifesting as luck? Luke firing the Proton Torpedoes at the right angle without the targeting computer, is proof of using the Force as luck. Or was it really Han helping? 🤔
There's a theory that Leia's early force-sensitivity manifested as empathy, with incredibly faint mind-trick and mind-reading abilities, making her naturally good at diplomacy.
@@thatHARVguy I dunno if it is EU book or what it is.
But yes, somewhere it exist a list of "midichlorian count" of majority of the characters in the starwars universe.
To be able to be trained as a Jedi you need around 7.5k. Anakin Skywalker is the highest recorded ever, with over 25k.
Remember the qoute from ep 4: "there is no such thing as luck".
There is no such thing as luck, it is using the force passively.
Han Solo has a m-count of around 2.6k. And majority of the civilians in the starwars universe has a m-count of 1.5k-2k.
My favorite part is when Finn and Rose chose to free the alien horses instead of the child slaves 🙃
Free them to where though? Into the wilderness with the horses? Or bring them along on their suicide mission to the First Order capital ship?
Didn't you pay attention in TPM? All slaves are implanted with explosive chips. If they escape they go boom!
Right?! Talk about screwed up priorities. Glad I’m not the only one who was frustrated by that.
And when she was talking about how there’s only one way you get this rich, I expected her to say human trafficking, which is clearly a huge issue in the Star Wars universe, as well as our own. When she said weapons manufacturing, I was so done. Like, did you seriously just forget you’re currently fighting a war against an organization that clearly makes their own weapons? Weapons manufacturers are the only hope you have, pumpkin. 🙄
It was the kid who freed alien horses.
I love how like many TLJ critiques you felt the need to lie. They didn’t have time to try and free everyone on their mission. Get a clue idiot
It's funny that you compared Porgs to puffins because they were created to cover up the puffins on the island they were shooting on. Apparently the puffins were protected, so they couldn't disturb them to keep them out of frame. Digitally covering the puffins was cheaper than digitally removing them.
38:22 you'll never believe me when I tell you that this entire ending scene is never brought up or referenced ever again. Also, now that the main big bad villain is gone, and it's well established that Ben isn't a threat whatsoever, there aren't any big bad guys to fight in the final movie.
Isn't a threat whatsoever? He killed and outsmarted Snoke.
@@MattAlbie Because Snoke was an idiot. Kylo was beaten by Rey 3 times.
The little bird creatures (Porgs) have a practical purpose beyond selling toys. The island they filmed on was inhabited by puffins. Each Porg is a special effect hiding a puffin.
Thats actually really cool
@@b9morion And cheaper than editing out every single bird.
As much as I hate this movie this is really clever. I approve of this decision.
They didn't need to put them in the Falcon and film a separate scene with Chewbacca though. It's like screaming "BUY THEM!"
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p Yeah, the porgs role in the movie vaguely reminded me of the Minions. Their there to provide comic relief, look cute and above all else be marketable. It's what Disney has been trying to do ever since they bought Star Wars. They tried it with BB-8, then with the porgs, then with that droid JJ Abrams voiced in TRoS and with Babu Frik and then they finally struck gold with Baby Yoda.
I think the biggest fundamental problem with this movie is the person in the directors chair. Rian Johnson isn't a bad director, mind you, he's great. He's just an iconoclast. He is wildly, fumingly disinterested in any status quo delivery on a concept. Some of his movies rock as a result. The Knives Out flicks are great good fun.
But he starts every project from a perspective of deconstruction, and he rarely if ever settles for reassembling the thing back into the movie that we expected and probably wanted and maybe even deserved.
The overwhelming thesis of TLJ seems to be "fairy tales are dumb and bad and you're dumb and bad if you like them."
Which is insane to me in a movie series that famously starts with the sci fi version of "Once upon a time..."
It would be like making an Indian Jones movie and saying "but adventure is dumb."
Or a Shining sequel and saying "but horror is dumb."
To undercut the very precept of the thing you're doing...it just doesn't work.
There are tonal problems all over the movie, and I kinda feel like it starts there. If the whole thing is dumb and the audience needs to grow up, like, why do it? Why expose your performers to that?
Check out any of Mark Hamill's interviews leading up to the release of the movie. He's not shy about it - this character is unrecognizable to him. It makes no sense, thematically, with the rest of the story. It makes no sense psychologically. The dialogue makes no sense, feels more like Han Solo than Like Skywalker any day of the week. There are infinite set ups and zero payoffs in the first movie, then infinite payoffs for zero set up in the second movie.
One can complain about Force Awakens as a movie that just mirrors the original - fine. Valid criticism. But at least JJ spent a year traveling the world with Lawrence Kasdan to figure out how to do a Star War. He spent the time to try to answer the question not of why but of how.
Johnsons answer of how was to refuse and his answer of why was "we probably shouldn't." That sucks. That's a shit answer for Star Wars fans.
Of course, there was no saving it once we started down this path. Disney took all the wrong criticisms from this movie and made all the worst decisions for Ep IX.
I grew up just desparate for more stories from that long time ago in that faraway galaxy.
Now I just want them to stop.
Sorry, I know it's an old post, but very well put! I'm not a fan of Subverting expectations soley for subversions sake. That's what I feel Rien Johnson does. Some people love that because they love to be suprised, but on a second watch, those "suprises" often come across as story or character inconsistencies which feels like the opposite of clever writing.
I liked it the first time that I watched it, but then I watched it again around a year later having not thought about it for a year and I hated it. The second watch made me notice a lot of smaller details that ruined the movie for me and the sloppiness really stood out to me.
"I'm just hoping for something different" was the guiding principle for this whole movie.
It’s so evident that the trilogy was proceeded with very little thought.
Sadly yeah. I think higher ups knew that as long as they weren’t the prequels they’d be loved from the get-go. But they kinda overestimated how long that kind of sentiment could last.
That wasn't really apparent until Rise of Skywalker came along. That pretty much nailed it shut.
@@kilroy987 Disagree, Last Jedi was the last Star Wars movie I saw. It destroyed any desire to watch the Rise of Skywalker. Even now I can't fully commit to watching the new Star Wars shows. The Last Jedi killed Star Wars for me. It was just a very very bad movie.
@@kilroy987 no it didn't. If you can't see that 7 and 8 were completely at odds with each other I don't think you've got any brains at all
@@mikehunt69981 I don’t think that’s quite fair. There can be some reconciliation with episodes 7 and 8. There clearly wasn’t a plan but they looked like they had some idea of what they might’ve wanted. Episode 9 just made it clear as crystal that they were just riding the wave.
Here’s my opinion about this movie: as a stand-alone film, it’s not all that bad. In the context of the entire saga, it’s cardinal sin. It was a poor attempt to try and make up for the shortcomings of the prequel trilogy as well as the previous film.
"Shortcomings of the prequels", isnt this the only star wars film that actually references the prequels? When Luke mentions how it was the Jedi that allowed Darth Sidious to grow and take other the galaxy, it was a Jedi master that trained and created Darth Vader
Only the prequels and the last jedi look at both sides of the force and asks whether either side was actually right.
same as the hobbit trilogy. they are great as movies, they're just bad as the hobbit
I love that Snoke was like ‘get that damn helmet off. Like Kyle just showed up one day to work wearing that scary duck helmet like a goth kid with a tattoo and was all like ‘ this is who I am. Shut up, you’re not my real dad!’
Movie was just tedious but thinking deeper about its decisions just made me snigger
Snoke had no problem with the mask in TFA...
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p yeah well they weren't face to face, he was a hologram in TFA! For all we know he thought Ren was wearing a helmet because the Starkiller base holodeck was really stinky
@@phoenixdzk Ren spoke to him without the mask from the same place...
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p well Smoke probably assumed the fart had dissipated by then! If someone walks into your house wearing a full blown gas mask and described it as a lifestyle choice you'd wanna discipline the wanker
The problem with the hyperspace thing destroying the whole fleet is that makes massive holes in every other movie. Why would you attack the deathstar when you can just launch a meteor piloted by a robot at it in hyperspace? Why would you even BUILD the deathstar when you can just launch meteors at hyperspace speeds at planets.
It doesn’t but keep harping on that 3 year old whingeing.
rule of cool
@@Trikzilla it really does, they try to explain it away with Finn saying “that’s a one in a million chance”
So one can extrapolate that Captain Holdo was actually trying to escape...but she messed up.
What should have happened is either she just goes into hyperspace, or she explodes on the shields of the Supremacy, dealing absolutely no damage.
@@MilkT0ast Finn's comment is that it's incredibly difficult to hit the hyperspeed at just the right moment to hit the other ship - to a degree where it isn't worth trying in normal combat, not that she was trying to escape. (EDIT: Okay, it takes out a bunch, I misremembered, but still, I imagine any not in the direct line of fire survived)
Sidenote, though, throwing meteors at hyperspeed seemed like a very valid idea even without 'the Holdo manuevre'. We've seen in other SciFi how damaging meteors are at a relatively 'normal' speed haha.
@@AmazingChi but why? If the problem is that it's not precise, it still would work for very big targets... like planets, or Death Stars.
The whole "subverting expectations" thing is what really killed this film for me. On the one hand, yes, you want to see something different, on the other, it seemed like the setup that was the first film was just not followed through in the second. The "expectations" we have given what we'd already seen. It feels like this director tossed 85 percent of that out the window, like Luke's lightsaber. A lot of it just does not hit very well. I'm not saying it's all bad. There are some really good moments and scenes that even made me tear up (damn you, nostalgia!), but, as a sequel, I'm not too fond of it.
Pretty much this. Rian Johnson took what JJ Abrams started and crapped all over it. Some of the plot conveniences were ridiculous. For the first time since 1977, fuel suddenly became important. Really!? That's the hallmark of lazy writing, one of many examples in this movie. I still call it garbage.
JJ Abrams took over again for The Rise of Skywalker, and it was an open question whether he could repair the damage Johnson did to the series.
Oscar Issac deserves recognition for his work in this series. If you think this was good, watch Marvel's Moon Knight. He's amazing.
Subverting expectations isn't even necessarily a good thing like people of this movie use to defend it. I expected this movie to be ok and my expectations were quickly subverted and realized it was bad. Sequel defenders use it like it's a catch all for criticism of this movie, but don't realize it is absolutely terrible when done completely wrong. See: GoT S8. But it takes people who understand what makes a good story and movie to understand the pitfalls of "subverting expectations" and if someone thinks this movie is good, then they'll never understand.
To be fair she nailed it, as soon as Luke tossed it, she was like that made sense, cause he would already have it if he wanted it. He could have gotten it at any time if he wanted it, but he chose not too.
He could of subverted a non-skywalker story and done his own thing
The best thing about this movie was killing Snoke. Why does there always have to be an evil emperor, the idea of the empire going through a power vacuum would have been really interesting but nooooo for some reason empire always needs a scary bad guy with a big planet killing weapon for some reason
I agree, the stare down at the end of the last movie was like a glitch in reality.
The Leia as Mary Poppins scene made me laugh so hard. I know that wasn’t the intent. Seriously, the only good thing was Oscar Isaac.
And even he was reduced to bad comedy and absurd decision making b/c men are dumb and women are strong and independent
in the comics, leia trains to learn how to wield the force, so it does actually make sense, the problem is that the movie never adresses this, so you'd have to read the comics to understand that scene, which is a pretty big oversight imo.
@@IndyMotoRider what? He got the best quote in cinema history
"somehow, Palpatine returned"
@@RightAsRainCreations but in the books she realize that she's not in tune with the force and quit the practice because she's not destiny to
@@IndyMotoRider Poe actually made the best decisions in the movie, it wasn't his fault that other people refused to communicate
Obi-Wan trained Luke despite being responsible for Vader and had given up on turning him back, and Luke was the one to never give up on his father, yet he considers killing Kylo, and then just gives up and leaves to hide? It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. He acted out of fear, like he did in Return of the Jedi. But the different between the two is that Luke actually acted on his fear and anger in RotJ, while TLJ Luke recognized he was falling into that same hole he did in RotJ
@@dcresistance You've completely overlooked the second part. Obi-Wan was responsible for training the man who wiped out the entire Jedi temple and ruled the galaxy for a decade and he was _still_ willing to train Luke. And Luke was even more compassionate and forgiving than Obi-Wan, he saw good in Vader where Obi-Wan saw none, and he was right.
You expect me to believe Luke, first of all, forgot the lesson of ESB that visions were easily manipulated and misleading (the cave, and visions of cloud city), gave into the same anger that it took watching his friends die out the window and his father threatening to turn his sister to the dark from just one look into Kylo's head, then left to exile on an island where he refused to train anyone, unlike Obi-Wan who we already established was less forgiving than Luke was?
It wasn't like Luke suddenly turned to anger in Return of the Jedi from just one threat. He was standing there watching his friends get shot down out the window, heard that an army was actively heading towards his friends, and then only after his father, who was about to kill him, threatened to personally turn Leia to the dark, he gave into anger. And then after disarming Vader (note on the bridge, he never tries to kill Vader, he's always aiming at his arm), he realizes he's gone to far even by just doing that. He forgot that lesson too?
@@jakegearhart Despite saying "hope" 2-3 times in every Disney SW movie, they keep proving they don't understand what hope means. It's just a buzzword and unofficial slogan for them, they practically trademarked the word Hope™.
@@jakegearhart I disagree with your notes on the bridge. That was the classic "I'm going to smash you until you're no longer a threat, even if I have to kill you" attack that all humans do when protecting a loved one (remember that threatening Leia was his trigger) If he were being that tactical and precise, he wouldn't have charged and showed and swing his lightsaber like a man possessed. But he snapped out of it and realized what he was becoming when he saw Vader's lost mechanical hand and recognized he was actually becoming exactly like those who came before him, going down a dark path, before dropping his light saber and choosing the better path, even at the cost of his own life.
It is hard to know how deep the relationship between Obi-wan and Vader was meant to be at the time episode 4 was filmed, before the many retcons that would follow in the Original and Prequel trilogy. At that time, Anakin and Dark Vader were still separate characters. The decision to make them the same didn't come until the 2nd draft of the Empire script. Obi-Wan calls him his "pupil" which makes it seem more like he was merely a part of and not the only one training him originally. Even if we go off the fully retconned timeline, Obi-wan can also take solace that this was not his choice, his master begged him as his dying wish to train him even though as a very green Jedi knight, he probably shouldn't have. How could he refuse? I'm not sure what we'll find out from the Kenobi show, but as of now he didn't train anyone for almost 20 years after his failure with Anakin so he had time while in isolation to get over the guilt and for the mental scars to heal. For Luke it's only been a little over 5 years, the wound is still fresh. Yoda also runs and hides after his failure to prevent the rise of Emperor instead of staying in the fight.
If someone yells "BOO!" behind you, do you logically reason there is not a ghost behind you and not react at all? No, it triggers your lizard brain fight or flight response and you instinctively react to defend or attack. If after seeing the vision he started hacking away at Ben then you would have a point. But he doesn't, he instinctively reacts to shocking stimuli for 1 second, and then stops himself.
I thought it was a cute detail that Luke's force projection was younger and thinner than the real one.
Imagine seeing this movie in theaters and liking the small little details in the big pile of pooh that it is, and over the next few weeks continuously reading headlines like: "You didn't like Star Wars because You're a Bigot" - "Star Wars wasn't written for YOU!" .. and finding out that Disney actually pays these media companies to write that.
At this point, a person banned from the theme parks for running nude through Main St. would have a higher likelihood of getting back into Disney than Disney has getting back into my wallet.
I remember watching this in the theater and asking myself, what is up with these worthless bombers. Dumbest, most useless ships ever. Smdh. The old bombers were great and obviously much more maneuverable. My favorite quote of the movie:
Poe: Follow me.
(Everyone looks at Leia)
Leia: What are you looking at me for? Follow him.
I also love how Yoda still calls old scruffy looking Luke, young Skywalker. LoL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Y-wings the older bombers? They did their job quite well and were far more survivable than these bombers. Not to mention, they were way smaller and more maneuverable, presenting a much more difficult target. The bombers in this movie probably would have been better suited to bombing a ground base than a capital ship.
@@bobogus7559 Those bombers had a rear-end gunner, which helped keep enemies from getting you from behind.
@@josephtingley654 Yet another point in the Y-wing's favor.
If I could propose an alternate angle: l
Y-wings were good, but were also light bombers, dropping maybe a few bombs at a time, it seemed, in favor for some more speed and maneuverability. But they were also old, having been started back during the Clone Wars. Probably Better in dogfights
While the new bombers are slower and larger, the advantage would be the bigger payload. Would be better against stationary targets that need a big hit. The Resistance committing those to the strike could indicate 1) limited on resources and time, 2) just how much it’d take to knock out a ship like the Dreadnaught.
"They tended to pull me out of it a lot more than previous films."
Nailed it. That was exactly my problem. The other movies had hammy, cheesy moments, and comedy, but for some reason TLJ just constantly knocked me out of the enjoyment of watching it, and instead of thinking "omg what's going to happen next to these characters I love" I was thinking "omg what the hell was this director doing".
Poe's mom joke at the start, the very silly spaceship "bombers", Leia being blown into space then Mary Poppins-ing back in unconscious, the 45-minute long sequence on the casino planet with a ton of bad CGI that did nothing for the plot, the "slow ships chasing each other in space running out of fuel" plot that was done much better in Battlestar Galactica, Finn having a terrible arc that really got him nowhere, Rose who was a great actress but given nothing to act except exposition, whatever the fudge was going on with Benicio Del Toro's character, the movie telling us via Rose saving Finn that grand sacrifices are bad and "we win with love" despite Holdo making a grand sacrifice to save them just fifteen minutes earlier, Rose kissing Finn despite no chemistry between them whatsoever, yes Luke's dusting off of his shoulder, the very emotionless way Luke died....
... okay I'm done but yeah, there was a lot in this movie that just took me out of it. I saw it the night it premiered with a good friend who did a lot of the VFX for The Force Awakens, and when we were in line to see it jumping up and down we saw the faces of all the people coming out of the earlier showing, and rather than talking to each other all excited about whatever big cliffhanger the movie left them with, people were just looking quiet and confused. After seeing the movie I understood why.
As someone else points out in these comments, the biggest fault of the movie probably wasn't the director, but whoever made the trilogy as the three movies seemed to have no story planned out in advance. And for what it's worth, as much as I disliked TLJ, The Rise of Skywalker was even worse. :(
100% agree with everything you said.
I Hate Ryan Jhonson... he broken Luke
A agree with everything except it not being the fault of the director, most of the issues within the film itself was the direct result of RJ's decision making. He had the chance and absolute freedom to do whatever he wanted so any failures to deliver a story and character growth is on him solely. The man got the first chance to use Mark Hamil as Luke Skywalker for the first time in 35-40 years and fumbled the ball so hard.
@@MrRobschnieder That's fair, I also agree with this lol.
i was worried that it would be alot of discussions about ep9 in this thread. Glad people are not spoiliring it more than that comment.
Let's wait until Natalie has reacted to ep 9 to discuss it, I think many of us have even harder feelings about that one.
What I think holds back the sequals from being a good series is that they lay jokes a bit too often. Episode 1 suffered from this and you can see how they tried to tone it down on the next 2 films in the prequals to fix it, but for the sequels, they just seem to try and double down on it. I also feel like the sequels suffer from the lack of character development or the rush of it. I feel like the series could've been better if they used this second film as more of a character developing step with not as much of a highstakes scenario. Like episode 5, we don't have something so crazy like this mega ship threatening the whole galaxy again. Instead we get a cool perspective on this long drawn out battle, training, and even some intense personal fights.
Also the aliens they brought in for the ST seemed so bland and they didnt even bother to give us anything familiar other than Chewie, Nien and Ackbar. If it wasnt for lightsabers and the force and the ships I wouldnt know it was the same Galaxy.
not how you spell sequel nor prequel
@@DaviniaHill okay
Disney essentially wrote Star Wars as though it were an MCU movie. We already have the MCU. I want Star Wars, not this turd of a trilogy.
Its that nobody cares about these people. And sorry to say but the woke BS is simply that, BS.
at the end it said In Loving Memory of our Princess, Carrie Fisher. They have her in the next movie even though she died a week after filming this movie her family gave permission to use deleted footage from Episode 7 and 8 for her part in Episode 9 so that they would not have to re cast. After Episode 9 watch SOLO a Star Wars story it is set before Rogue One and before Episode 4 it is Han Solo's back story
The one thing that drove me nuts was when the First Order ship was firing on the Rebel Cruiser and they were arcing there shots to show how far they were…. There’s no gravity in space, the shots wouldn’t arc… they would just go straight until the plasma burned out.
no gravity.. in space.. 🤔 wow
Problems with your ability to suspend belief?
@@ajschroetlin2196 does not excuse anything. Starwars has already displayed No gravity in space…
@@deathgun5925 First world problems, eh?
@@ajschroetlin2196 Defending dumb stuff, eh?
Poor counter aswell, lovely.
I believe the two over arcing things people had an issue with with the sequel trilogy and with this segment of it in particular is the handling of certain character, and in the broader scope is general lore continuity. For example, if smashing massive ships apart using hyperspeed was possible then the death star and star destroyers would have been cake walk since all x-wings have hypserspeed capability. Within the confines of the sequel trilogy itself this movie was the start of reducing Finn's role to comic relief when he could have had a very interesting character arc. I won't list every example because I don't want this to turn in to an essay but I will end by saying there was a lot to like about this movie as well, but sadly backlash caused a lot of back peddling on things in the final installment.
It takes more than the mass of an X-Wing to do that damage. Implicitly, @An Actual Duck , it takes impact at just the right moment, BELOW lightspeed, but still at high velocity, seemingly.
At least, that's how many read it (including after the novelization) in the last few years. But either way, it does open up a can of worms, yes.
@@chrissonofpear1384 yeah I'm aware they have made attempts to explain why it isn't used normally but within the confines of what's established in just the movies up to this point it makes things messy. But more importantly it was just an example of complaints people had at the time it was released
What was needed for Holdo's suicide run were a few lines of dialogue saying all ships have failsafes preventing that kind of suicide tactics, so you needed someone who was a great pilot AND knew how to hack in and get around those failsafes to pull it off. Hence, Holdo staying behind to make it happen. There's definitely a way it can be used as a one-time tactic and not make it the new standard tactic in all SW movies going forward.
@@patrickflanagan3762 Make high density suicide ships manned by droids or something. Adding this option changes space combat forever.
@@chrissonofpear1384 No, that still doesn't make sense IMHO. You can buy a junk freighter with hyperspace capability in SW for the price of a car in ours. Load it with rocks, program the system to go to hyperspace at exactly the right moment, and you've destroyed a ship millions of times more expensive. That's an attempt by the writers to scramble and fix this ginormous plot hole, and they failed at that.
This was Carrie Fisher's last movie filmed before passing away. How fitting she played the role that made her an icon one last time.
And they decided to make her death meaningless. Leia’s death should have had more impact, since Carrie actually died. No respect for the old cast.
When Luke warned Kylo Ren before the reveal, it reminded me of "Ben Kenobi" before dying, so I thought it would've been cool if he immediately turned into a force ghost who would "haunt" him in the next movie.
It was a space road trip movie. With the twist being that they run out of space gas. The whole Cantobite scene makes no difference to the storyline. A whole quarter of the movie made no difference at all to the story. In my books this movie ranks equally with Solo and sits below Episode II.
@@frams12 From what I remember from ESB is they were hanging out on the asteroid while they were trying to plan what to do to fix the Falcon. They went to Cloud City because Lando was a friend and used to own the Falcon - and would probably know best how to fix it. I am assuming the last part of my statement. Hence the Lando line "What did you do to my ship?"
As someone who didn't really like this movie (or the trilogy) I think the general consensus from that camp of opinion is that the movie prided itself on "defying expectations" yet didn't offer anything to the series as a whole. Finn and Poes subplots are contrived, having zero gravity on the story and could have been easily avoided altogether. People especially didn't like Luke's characterization in the film, which felt ooc and ultimately pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. Mysteries set up in TFA - like Snoke and Rey's parentage - are seemingly thrown aside and proven to have little meaning. People didn't like the comedy either, and your description of it it being "hammy" is apt. By the end of the movie it doesn't really feel like the story even progressed much. Things just... happened.
I actually don't dislike everything about this movie. There are a few things that I enjoyed but ultimately they make it worse in the final installment (imo). I hope you watch it and come to an opinion of your own, but I just hoped to state a very quick generalization of what people didn't like about the movie.
As a generic Sci fi movie, it would have been fine. As a story that fits within the defined and built out universe of Star Wars, I think it was…not really any level of good. I am fine with people who loved it, but I did not. I should have been devastated when Luke died, and I would have been if they hadn’t really spoiled Luke by that point. I think I rolled my eyes when Luke died, instead of dried them.
I guess my problem is Rian didn’t treat the source material or the characters with any respect. Akbar blown out into space and unceremoniously killed with not even a real mention. It was later that I just realized, oh yeah, I guess he’s dead too. Now contrast that to another moment in the Mandalorian that I won’t discuss to avoid anyone who hasn’t been spoiled, where I literally sobbed with joy and you get the difference that fans feel when the characters are treated with respect and love.
they just needed the trilogy penned by one person. Use three directors, let them have their visual representation, but sticking to key elements and plot points. Having three writers caused a massive train wreck. This one is not AS bad as people say, it just didn't work as a middle chapter of a trilogy. if RIan Johnson made his own trilogy, I think it could be amazing
Disney obviously didn't care what happened to it, as long as the movies were made, and the seats filled, they weren't going to bother with actually creating a plot from the beginning, even if one of the three writers handled the entire thing I still think at best it'd be mediocre rather than a complete mess.
No, it would have been three lousy movies, not one. But your main point is valid. Marvel has shown that it can keep their movies consistent with a master plan. The sequels would have been much better if someone like Feige had been in charge.
I think most people have already nailed down the flaws this movie had, but I can't help but being super compelled about the thought that they could've used this film to break clean of the previous trilogies. No more special bloodlines, no more imperium/rebellion reboots or sith and jedi, just a brand new generation with new conflicts and problems unburdened by the yoke of nostalgia.
It would've been cool to see.
The Luke - Kylo flashbacks and story was the best part of this movie
Maybe they should have told that story instead
Yea, and the Kylo - Rey connection
I would have liked this series more if they doubled down on the impact of Last Jedi in the move that came after. Could have been more interesting than what happened.
I feel like if this was the first movie instead and we followed those threads, we could have had more fun.
Exactly. People complained episode 7 was too similar to old movies and storyline, so this one goes in a new interesting directions and people got more upset.
I was the studio stuck to this thread, we would have got a great episode 9 instead of the jumbled mess it was.
@Preston Poland once a gain you Ryan Johnson peoples legitimate complaints about this stupid disconnected story that’s all subversion with noting to gain from it. It’s just a lotta “betcha didn’t see that coming,” with no actual story behind it.
@@noneya3635 I enjoyed it and it worked for me anyway!
@@noneya3635 the story was about failure and learning from it. It was about being at your absolute lowest as still fighting on. It was, and as a star wars fan I hope you understand this, about Hope.
10:55 the birds, the porgs, were actually included because they couldn't get rid of the puffins at the filming location, so they were digitally changed
also merchandising
The most ironic thing about these movies is they kill Han in the first. Luke in the second. Leaving Leia alive, and she's the only one to die IRL.
For me, the biggest issue with the entire sequel trilogy (but especially TLJ) is the treatment of Luke’s character. They took everything that was established about Luke in the OT and ignored it.
OG Luke: "If he has a little good in him, he's worth saving"
Disney Luke: "He has a little evil in him, he must die"
@@frederick2609 he has seen his future. he had every reason to kill him.
@@Sem43324 OT Luke would have tried everything to save him
"Ignored it" is putting it lightly. More like tossed it into the trash
it had to be a severe enough reason for him to abandon his family. I don't know what JJ had in mind for the reason he left, unless he didn't have one.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate that part of the plot is a giant "car chase" in space between the first order and the resistance? Resistance unable to hyper jump cause they almost out of fuel and the First Order just mindlessly chasing them? Instead of sending some ships in front of them with a single jump cutting off their escape route? No? Lets just chase them for a 3h movie shooting at them from a distance barely missing them DARNIT....
This movie is so full of plot holes and terrible writing its triggering me on so many levels.
Also the scene where Fin charges at the giant laser, you see a shot where everyone else turns around leaving Fin completly alone charging at it head on. BUT SOMEHOW Rose made it ( in an ARC) just in time to knock him out? Right...
This movie seriously punishes you for thinking. It's totally mindless popcorn garbage, every single scene collapses into utter inanity if you spend any time thinking about it. It's like the whole movie is that scene in A New Hope where the gunners on the Star Destroyer don't shoot the lifepod because it's empty. A movie can easily survive one dumb moment like that, but this movie is just nothing but dumb moments that make no sense once examined.
so they hyperspace jump in front, and they just change direction fly upwards, the last rebel ship being faster than all of their ships it gets away again.
they literally spell this out in the movie, lines of dialogue written just to explain to you why they did what they did. there was no rush, they didnt need to risk anything, they decided to just follow and wait for them to run out of fuel and then pick them off. thats why they didnt bother jumping in front, they didnt need to.
"cutting off their escape route". ... someone clearly doesnt understand how space works.
For the finn charging the cannon plot hole one of my friends discribed it at since her was inside the beam with it pushing him back it's like he was running with a parachute on his back slowing him down enough for rose to catch up
@@ge2719 I mean the FO could just encircle the Radus with their fleet. For Christ's sake, they blew off the bridge of the Radus with only TIE fighters.
Agree 100%. Also, Luke's characteristics is sooo far from his past. What, you're going to turn all emo because your nephew is embracing the dark side? You're the Jedi instructor and... you can't lead your nephew out of this? Also, Luke is the most powerful Jedi in history but, can't project himself to another planet without dying?
Yeah, so many people have pointed out so many issues with this movie that I'm not sure I could say anything that hasn't already been said. I think for me, some issues are the whole "Canto Bight sidequest" that was annoying (taking us out of the main story) - and ultimately pointless. It also annoyed me that Rey could just skip Jedi training...like, I actually wanted a montage even though it's been done before, haha.
And another big problem for me was that so many characters acted so DUMB. Like, it seemed like the Resistance deserved to lose because they are such an unprofessional army.
Poe Dameron was willfully insubordinate and just messed things up...he would have been court-martialed or dismissed in any decent military.
And Leia and Holdo couldn't be bothered to explain the plan to Dameron so he would at least be informed.
And the First Order ended up decimating the escape pods anyway.
Just so many characters acting in obviously dumb ways.
I'll save other comments for your review of Rise of Skywalker. Always happy to see your reviews. :)
Poe Dameron is treated like moron by the purple haired feminist. Imagine treating your most capable pilot as nothing the whole movie. Holdo is the worst character in Star Wars history. This whole movie is an insult to Star Wars fans.
@@Jazzanaught whoa whoa...I have nothing against feminism (which isn't really the point). And in the movie, Dameron was insubordinate and acting like an idiot (like, why would you sacrifice ALL your bombers, just to get rid of one dreadnought - that the enemy probably has loads of anyway, as well as the capacity to replace them?).
But I also don't like characters (whether male or female) acting like complete idiots just to further the plot. So many stupid decisions and that pointless Canto Bight diversion...
No, Poe Dameron was absolutely justified in his actions. He had to destroy the dreadnaught, like he said they're fleet killers. It absolutely would have caught up to and destroyed their fleet after being tracked through hyperspace if he hadn't.
After Leia was incapacitated, Holdo gave them no information, no way forward, no plan of action, just a bunch of empty speeches filled with words meant to sound inspiring but rang hollow. And she was a complete asshole to Poe, dressing him (the second in command and the most popular pilot in the Resistance fleet that everyone looks up to) down in front of the whole crew on the bridge, even though his decision to destroy the dreadnought was proven correct in the end, by that point. Even if they don't personally like each other, a positive and cohesive CO and XO relationship is absolutely vital to the function of any naval crew, and if there are disagreements and arguments, they take place *behind closed doors.*
Then, as they lost ships and continued to run dry on fuel, she STILL didn't give them anything concrete. At that point, Poe was absolutely correct in assuming she was unfit for command and mutinying.
What exactly was the lesson we were supposed to learn here? Blindly follow the orders of your leader even when they appear at best completely incompetent, and at worst like a saboteur, when your lives and your mission are at stake? It's not like Poe was being completely unreasonable, as soon as Leia explained Holdo's plan to him he understood it and agreed with it. She could have just told him from the beginning and saved a hell of a lot of trouble. It's not like there was any indication of First Order spies or surveillance equipment on board.
Holdo is an example of the absolute worst kind of toxic officer.
@@brianthebroken Poe never meant to sacrifice every bomber, it just sort of worked out that way. But that decision proved correct in the end due to the fact that they can now be tracked through light speed. The dreadnought could move faster at sublight than the Supremacy, it would have caught up to them and destroyed them.
I thought that was the point Ryan was trying to make.. Same with what Kylo was saying, Let It Die, Stop Holding On, Let The Past Die, Yadda Yadda.. I actually liked that message, mainstream Star Wars does need to evolve.. into the EU lol
Just because a person dumps a dirty bottle of water into the ocean, it doesn’t make the whole ocean dirty, but someone still littered, and someone thought….ok that was bad, because I hate fish too…..ok….run our recycling foundation. Gotta say this too…GL was going through a divorce during Empire, and still managed to create. Kennedy must of had some serious issues throughout local film….at one thing was great to come out of sequels
A BadLipReadind….My Stick. Made it all worth it and should be canon at this point.
Your film arc intuition is impressive!
I think this trilogy should have just focused on one more adventure with the original Star Wars characters, while introducing the new characters along the way. Then the next trilogy could have been about the new characters.
I couldn’t agree more. They really and truly missed an opportunity.
but then u had to actually pay them off for 3 movies. It's easier to just kill them off the part they show them.. 🤷♂️
That would have been such an obvious decision. With Luke, Han, and Leia available, Disney had a layup on their hands . . . but they decided to take the trick shot from halfcourt.
At first I assumed that the reason they made their choice to focus on new characters was that they were planning on basing future movies/trilogies on those characters (and even that would have been a terrible decision). But no. As far as I can see, they focused on their new characters - a decision that cost them many, many millions of dollars - because, as far as I can see, of their arrogant desire to put their own stamp on the franchise. I wish that somehow those responsible would pay for their decision, but somehow, they still seem to somehow fail upward.
That would have been such an obvious decision. With Luke, Han, and Leia available, Disney had a layup on their hands . . . but they decided to take the trick shot from halfcourt.
At first I assumed that the reason they made their choice to focus on new characters was that they were planning on basing future movies/trilogies on those characters (and even that would have been a terrible decision). But no. As far as I can see, they focused on their new characters - a decision that cost them many, many millions of dollars - because, as far as I can see, of their arrogant desire to put their own stamp on the franchise. I wish that somehow those responsible would pay for their decision, but somehow, they still seem to somehow fail upward.
@@brianthom6798 And the trick shot was a full court, blind folded, toss with a brick instead of a basket ball....
it makes sense he was separated from that saber cause it's the saber he had in his hand when Vader cut off his hand. aka, vaders saber. aka, anakins saber. so he may have actually want to keep his dad's saber, that his friend obi gave him. if only cause it's the only thing left of his dad. and he had lost it, not gotten rid of it on purpose
this movie lost me at this point and it still pisses me off. the level of bull for a "comedic" moment. like having all the sacred books and not having read them? really? luke is THAT person? wtf is that even. god i hate this movie with a passion
Is this movie as bad as they say? No... It's so much worse. We got a 2 hour, poorly paced, space chase. Space Vegas. Vice Admiral karen Gender Studies. Leia Poppins. Finn getting sidelined from potential jedi to comedy relief. Poe getting emasculated. Kelly Marie Bland. Admiral Ackbar getting wasted without anyone even giving a crap. Snoke going out like a chump. And the utter butcherin of Luke Skywalker, both figuratively and literally. No, I refuse to acknowledge that he is Luke, he's Jake Soywanker. But the worst part of all? Disney's reaction to anyone who hated this movie, labeling them all as racist/sexist/misogynist. My goodwill with Disney was murdered with Luke.
I feel like they had a couple good elements, but there was nobody willing to say "NO" in the writers room. Too many "Oh, yeah, that's cool! Lets add that too!" moments. They really needed someone to stop and think and say, "I know its cool, but it doesn't work." So those good elements are all lost in the crap.
Also, the throne room fight scene is terrible. It bugs me every time. It's obvious Daisy Ridley is not an action star. The director did not film accordingly. You can see the Stuntmen holding their blows till she's ready because she can't keep up. That's not on her though. The director should have realized that, and not filmed wide shots where you can see a bunch of enemies waiting their turn for Rey to be ready to block them. It gets mildly better the closer the camera gets but its still bad. Adam Driver is a little better fighter, but they still threw too many at him so the stunt guys had to hold back against him too. The stuntmen had to do a lot of twirls to attempt to cover their waiting, but they did so many pirouettes that you would think they were all ballerinas. If Daisy and Adam were top notch stunt fighters, they could have filmed the scenes like this because then the stunt people wouldn't have to hold their blows. But given that they are not stunt people. They should not have filmed like this.
And Rey being naturally gifted at everything is just horrible. They did it with Luke as well, but not the extent they did with Rey. Luke at least struggled before he got there in the end. Rey just naturally does everything. And I can forgive some of it. Being a scavenger in the rough neighborhood of Jakku, you learn about the mechanical side of things and how to defend yourself. But, defending yourself against a couple thugs is a lot different from defending yourself against a room full of royal guards. So they definitely 0 to 60ed that crap.
Respectfully, Luke did NOT have things come easy to him.
ANH
1. Had to be saved by Obi Wan in the bar on Mos Eisley.
2. Couldn't save him on Death Star.
3. Would have been killed in space battle if not for Artoo.
4. Would have been killed by Vader if not for Han.
ESB
5. Was wrecked by the Wampa. Only a handful of small training sessions on Falcon saved him. Would have froze to death if not for Han.
6. Shot down by AT-AT. Ended up destroying one though (Rey would have destroyed them all).
7. Crashed on Dagobah
8. Failed to lift XWing out of swamp.
9. Failed at the cave.
10. Cut his training short
11. Lost his fight to Vader and subsequently his right hand. Emotionally scarred him.
12. "No, I am your father." Ouch.
ROTJ
13. Could not defeat the emperor on his own, and was going to die before his father intervened.
So no, Luke was not like Rey.
@@MattRowland Oh Rey definitely is way worse than Luke. And they did try to balance Luke which they did not do at all with Rey. But there are still some moments where things come way too easily to him.
Like shooting the shot that killed the death star using on the force with no real force training and no targeting computer. And that AT-AT he brings down is brought down too easily. (seriously, all that thick armor but just knock off one panel and toss in a nade). And going back to Yoda to finish his training (which was already short) only to have him die and then suddenly: Okay training complete, he's a master now. Lets go defeat Vader in combat, and then turn him to the light again.
None of these are anywhere near as egregious as what they did with Rey. But his force mastery did come far to quickly just so they could fit the plot. They at least made him struggle for it and fail a couple of times so it wasn't offensive.
I really want to like this movie. It's got great cinematography, sound design, creature design, music, and even some of the acting. The unfortunate part is it doesn't make a good Star Wars story. For years we thought Luke would be a prime Jedi after Episode VI. He faced his dark side, saved his father, and found the balance where the Jedi before him failed. He was the best of them all and this film really brushed it under the rug by making him a recluse hermit with no desire to continue. I understand him failing and it taking a toll, but all of Luke's character beforehand led us as the audience to believe he could overcome it. That's why I do not care for this film that much. There are other reasons too, but this was the main drawback.
I feel the same. This movie was a masterpiece as far as film production goes. Sets, cinematography, costumes, cgi, all of it! However, if your story choices are flawed, they will only stand out more in this huge of a movie with a global fan base. The problem, as I see it, was they scheduled the releases every other year needlessly. If they didn't tie themselves down like that, they could have done any number of rewrites. This movie kind of felt like a first draft to me.
Making Luke into basically a coward was a deal breaker for me with not just this film but all of Star Wars official canon material. It makes me wonder what is the point?
That’s actually why I liked this film because it made him more human, rather than some unstoppable force it shows that he has flaws too.
@@ChromeOfTheFuture The writing though is just atrocious. Every character has flaws but someone like Luke who saw good in his father who killed countless innocent around the universe isn’t going to just see some bad in his nephew and think of killing him 💀 that makes no sense
@@ChromeOfTheFuture I respectfully disagree. Luke already had flaws and overcame them. He was naive and inexperienced to begin with, needing Ben to step in to save him in Mos Eisley. He trains in the wrong way with his lightsaber against the remote droid before receiving timely advice from Ben. He's also ambushed by a wampa at the beginning of ep V and nearly devoured, showing that raw Force talent means very little without training and situational awareness. He had little faith in his teacher or himself, failing to lift his X-wing out of the swamp until Yoda demonstrated that it was possible. Luke also was reckless and impatient, not thinking through the consequences of his actions, as demonstrated when he left Dagobah to confront Vader before he was ready - and he was duly punished for it, losing his hand. He also had difficulty controlling his emotions, as demonstrated when he lost his composure due to Darth Vader's taunting, nearly killing his father instead of redeeming him (also when he gave in to the Emperor's taunts and tried to kill him).
What The Last Jedi showed were not new character flaws that were meaningful or made sense for Luke's character. They were willful destruction of his core character traits. He succeeded in the original trilogy because of 1. his perseverance, and 2. his unshakeable faith in the inherent goodness of people, as represented by the fact that even Darth Vader had good left in him.
So when The Last Jedi shows him giving up (no more perseverance) and thinking that neither himself nor Kylo are redeemable (no more faith in goodness), this goes against everything he is as a person. They're not flaws, they're character rewrites. The fact that he eventually comes back to do the right thing doesn't erase the fact that his character never would have given up in the first place.
I didn't mind the Luke/Rey storyline but watching this video reminded me of how the dialogue is just full of that modern "everything is ironic and a joke" dialogue style. Nothing can be sincere, real feelings are for losers.
But the Finn/Rose storyline? Horrible. One, they did Finn dirty in this and the next movie. Two, it was a pointless shaggy dog story.
All in all this was a movie made by someone who thought he could make a Stars Wars movie by not making an anti-Star Wars movie. It turned me off of Ryan Johnson's work (Well, earlier stuff made me unsure this just sealed his fate) forever and killed my interest in the franchise until Mandalorian brought it back.
Knives Out came after that and was pretty amazing tbh
Every character must act like Tony Stark. Thats how every hero acts.
I'm surprised you hate the narrative in this one but actually enjoy the Mandalorian. That show is filled to the brim with cliches, plot armour and lazy conveniences. I guess bland characters and a boring story is what you get when you let Jon Favreau write instead of just being a producer
Mandalorian didn't bring it either. It's just a cameofest with no plot.
Love your channel, I've been binging a lot of you videos over the last 3 days. I have to admit, when I watched this this movie, I never caught it when the kid in the final scene pulled the broom to himself, so that was a cool new thing you called out for me. I have to say, I'm still not a fan of the new trilogy.
Keep up the good work, Nat. I wish you the best. 😀👍
I remember seeing this movie with my dad day one. I really REALLY wanted to like this movie but I just couldn't. Most of your criticisms are valid but the problem is it doesn't really break away from the original trilogy formula so much as just poke at it. Its still one jedi and a rebellion against an empire, and it's still a B plot about the side characters doing other stuff with a guy they just met.
This is one of those situations where as an individual movie it has stuff I love and is easily the most creative and visually spectacular of the Disney Star Wars movies. It’s just that it doesn’t really fit as a part 2 in a trilogy. It gives no plan for where the story will go afterwards, and it feels very disconnected from the tone and plot threads of the previous movie. Personally most of the twists the movie had (Kylo killing Snoke, Rey being a nobody, Luke denouncing the old Jedi order that was terribly run and full of ignorant stubborn old guys) were things I really liked, but then Rise of Skywalker went and made every change I liked in this movie practically meaningless. So ultimately it just feels wasted and directionless, which is a shame because this movie could have been great if the last movie actually followed through on the themes in this one. Instead it’s movie that gets worse for me in retrospect even though I really liked it on its own
Helpful tip: You can ignore Episode IX and just enjoy the end of VIII as an ending that is open plot-wise but pretty definitive thematically. Not all great stories need all their plot threads to be closed.
Dont Blame this movie for not "fitting" the director was asked to do these things to shake it up, and then when the prissy, entitled fan who made the third movie whined that he didnt like what he was handed, went and said "EVERTHING THAT WAS GREAT ABOUT THE SECOND NEVER HAPPENED" and Disney backed him becasue he had such a proven track record on endings (SEE "Lost"....)
I was really hoping they would do something with Rey being a nobody and the fact that when she wants to see her parents she just sees herself. I had this big theory that she was another 'vergence' (which might also explain why she seems to be SO powerful).
And, without getting too spoilery for 9, I actually think this could have fit in really well with what they end up doing with her heritage (think: tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise) and characters they brought back but instead they did the most ridiculous/hamfisted thing possible.
I definitely agree with - while I disagree with the extreme they took Luke - there is SO much interesting potential in Luke becoming disillusioned with the Order and trying to figure out where to go next. Also tons of interesting possibilities all wasted.
@@Manuyoutubehow is it definitive thematically
Natalie: "I will just be happy if this if different"
Me: "Be careful what you wish for..."
I'm curious where you think the story will go and how this "trilogy " will be resolved
I was very "meh" about this movie while I watched it in the theater. It only took that night to actually digest what all happened and how things that struck me as odd or stupid, were waaay worse than I initially thought. I only ever watched it once and probably seen most scenes again in youtubers bashing it the following year after it came out. Unfortunate that the boycotts caused by this movie affected the Solo spin off, and Disney exec's thought it was because of the Solo spin-off so they cancelled the plans for the remaining spin-off films (would grow into the Disney+ TV shows we have now). Ep 7 played it safe but it was at least passable. Still had the feel of the franchise in the dialogue and aesthetics. This one diverged in the wrong direction in almost every way possible.
The Sequels have great effects (too much lense flare for my taste) but that isn't what makes a movie good, great, or terrible.
It's just like George Lucas said
“Special effects are tools, means to telling a story. People tend to confuse them as a means within themselves”. He also said "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
I almost got up and left the theater during the beginning scene with the tiny bombs "falling" in space (without gravity) out of the stupid bomber ships. In a universe with ridiculously fast homing seismic charges and ship-to-ship torpedoes, why would anyone open a door in space and drop a bunch of little grenades out of a hatch?
I really should've listened to that gut instinct - the movie only got worse from there.
Also admiral Holdo's "sacrifice", as if they didn't have a droid that could pilot the ship and do the lore breaking "holdo manouver".
So, did the Proton Bombs used by the Tie Bombers in Empire bother you, too? Don't get me wrong, I don't like the movie either, but, bombs have been in star wars since the original trilogy
@@cdnxman1326 Also, sound in space. Not a thing, but it is in Star Wars. This IP has routinely bent science for its own reasons.
@@effortlessfury Star Wars is like the Spelljammer of D&D. It is fantasy space, with little resemblance to our real world physics. Oh, and to add, I fucking hate this trilogy and wish it had never been made.
1) Gravity is all over in space. It's what keeps planets in their orbits or allows the formation of stars, for example.
2) Since space provides no friction, an object moving in a trajectory will continue to move in that trajectory unless acted upon by an outside force. All the bombers need is gravity inside the ship (and we know that exists since people commonly walk around inside ships with artificial gravity), an as the bombs exited the bay, they would keep moving with all their initial momentum intact.
3) As has already been pointed out, TIE Bombers did the same thing in TESB, and that wasn't considered an issue. It's only with the fanbase largely overreacting to the Disney era films that it seemingly became an issue.
@@wyldink1 funny, your #2 argument completely destroys the logic of literally the rest of the film, with ships stopping because they run out of fuel? In space?
So......which is it?
Some good ideas but a lot of poor execution. One of the things i think about is the theme of sacrifice. I mean Rose almost kills Finn to tell him they'll win with love, not sacrificing themselves and that's immediately followed by Luke sacrificing himself. The scene with Hondo jumping into the other ship was epic (also a sacrifice) but downplay by Leia Mary Poppinsing in outer space. I get that special effects allow for better representations of force powers and that Leia is a force user but i felt there was no set up for anything that happened in that scene. And then Finn, goes from being an interesting character - to see the perspective of a storm trooper and just becomes the buddy/comedy relief.
Finn's treatment is a tragedy in these movies. You have a character with a great backstory and then saddle him with a story that could be completely removed and the film would be better for it.
@@jotaux3652 yeah - for a brief moment, stormtroopers became people. The idea of turning some or all into allies. How they are also oppressed by the empire was just thrown away for nothing.
What ideas?
It's hard to think of another sequel that shits on the previous movie as fast as this one does with the Luke lightsaber bit. Maybe "Highlander 2"?
EDIT: Forgot about "Alien 3" for a minute there, too.
One of the main problems this movie had, was that Rian Johnson admitted that he took all of JJ Abrams notes for the movie, to help maintain it's continuity and threw them in the trash. Johnson said that everything he did in the movie from killing Snoke to killing off Luke was to "subvert everyone's expectations" as he put it. Mark Hamill hated this movie so much he repeatedly said in interviews that this was "Jake Skywalker" because Luke would never behave like this, trying to murder his own nephew over what he MIGHT one day do, when he was willing to do anything to save his Father who was the most evil, murderer in the entire Universe. He also said that Luke would NEVER give up and just go off somewhere to die. He would regroup and come back stronger, just like he always did. Hamill absolutely loathed this movie and what Johnson did with it. Later when they brought Abrams back for "Rise of Skywalker" to try to save the trilogy, he admitted that he brought back a certain villain, who I won't spoil for you here. Because Snoke was not supposed to die in "Last Jedi" and Abrams basically was desperate to somehow salvage the third movie. And no, it really doesn't work, it's pretty ridiculous.
I'm one of the people that really enjoys this movie. It's my favourite out of the ST. I imagine that the lack of vision for the trilogy is to blame for it not being better in the grand scope of the saga. I hope they went ahead with their plans for IX because it would have made this one much more important. But they got scared and said fuck it, and did the whole saga dirty with Ep IX. It's truly a shame, this one was very special for me, it showed innovation and a different approach to character development. But alas, here we are.
"A different approach to character development." Having either zero character development, or giving characters the exact.same.arc as the previous movie, certainly is a different approach to character development alright...
@@MGsubbie Luke had more character development in this movie alone than in his trilogy. Kylo Ren begins his character transformation in this movie and gets his arc fulfilled in IX because of it. Rey begins and ends her character arc in this movie, because IX really did nothing good for her. We have the best Poe from the ST in this movie. We have a fantastic Leia in this movie that sadly we cannot see finish her arc because of obvious reasons and the need to reuse shots in IX. I can't believe you said there's no character development, that's all this movie is: a great study on characters. It's a shame it's on a Star Wars movie because people get too obsessed with these kind of movies. Nevertheless it's a great piece of cinema. Can't wait for Rian Johnson's future SW project.
Agree... where IX was going to go was pretty incredible. Where it went was still a fun movie, but nowhere near what was going to happen. And the uber-insane fans are to blame for that. This film was epic. Finally Star Wars took a deep twist that felt earned and deserved. It exposed the flaw under everything presented by the previous 7 films, but specifically stated by Obi-Wan in Episode 3. It took Luke's own arrogance and then utter shame and years of reclusive thought to understand it. And he was right. And he hoped he would be the last jedi. But then rey shows up and he realizes he has to teacher, but also "why they must end." And he starts to in that very first lesson, except her raw innate strength distracts from the lesson. And her raw strength isn't some Mary Sue thing either. It makes sense with everything we know of the force. If it requires balance and there are two powerful Sith, then there's gotta be either a crap ton of weaker Jedi, or a couple VERY powerful force users to counter. Which is ALSO Luke's point. And Kylo's points about kill the past, burn it if you have to. Build something of your own. Also a great lead into where this was going. I'm sad we didn't get the follow up this was heading for.
@@stdoval
Rey and Finn had the exact same character arcs as in the Force Awakens.
"A great study on characters" lmao. Everyone acts completely out of character so the nonsensical plot can happen. Also, Ryan Johnson tends to establish the opposite of what he wants to establish. Poe was right in his opening maneuver, there was no way for the bombers to make their way back on time. Best case scenario, they would have still lost all their bombers, but the dreadnaught would have survived.
Holdo was a terrible leader, and her idea was utterly terrible (it was quite literally hoping the first order wouldn't look out of the windows of their own fucking space ship), she only succeeded because the first order was blazingly incompetent.
The holdo maneuver breaks canon and poses so many questions about why this tactic wasn't used on the death star, for example. (I realize a lone ship probably couldn't take it out, but one at the canon could do enough damage.)
Luke intending on killing Kylo was 100% out of character.
Ryan Johnson shows he fundamentally doesn't understand Star Wars or the characters.
This is either the best or second-best Star Wars movie overall.
Personally speaking, I like this movie more than most people do. I'm not saying I don't think it has problems, it definitely does, but I can understand what Rian Johnson was trying to do, even if he didn't make the best choices in how to do those things. I know this might sound like a hot take, but it's just my personal thoughts and feelings, and not meant to invalidate anyone else's opinion.
Sure, if it was my choice then I wouldn't want to see Luke turn into a bitter, cynical hermit, but I do think it makes sense for the story they were trying to tell. I can see Luke ending up like this under the right/wrong circumstances. Mostly I dislike how Finn and Rose were basically completely wasted as characters (Poor Kelly Marie Tran). Phasma's underwhelming death was a complete let-down too. She never really did anything in either this or The Force Awakens, despite featuring heavily in promotional material.
The Rise of Skywalker is the one I feel really ruined this trilogy for me. The pacing of that movie is awful, the story is bullshit and it relies almost solely on pandering, backtracking and fan-service, mostly directed at people who didn't The Last Jedi. It tries so hard to do so many things that nothing really works.
“Luke’s character makes literally no sense anymore, but the writers just wanted to do something so they did it”
I can actually see it happening, but NOT this drastically, and not with Luke basically giving up further just because he got to this island and learned the Jedi have always been somewhat fallible. It probably takes more than THAT to close oneself off from the Force.
And since JJ did not provide a reason for why Luke never reached out via the Force, or came to Leia's or Han's aid before this, he may share some responsibility. That said, I CAN believe he had ideas of what Luke was doing.
But they were ideas never guaranteed to be shared with Disney, or at least used by them - given the three films, three director plan they seemingly had (if plan it was at all)
those cute little animals was something they had to do as where they filmed Lukes island in Ireland the place was full of puffins and they had to cg them out and drew these guys over them
Disney and Rian Johnson Did not understand the Star Wars Universe and did not do their homework when making this movie and changed the personality of many of the old characters especially Luke. Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy wanted to do the opposite of what George Lucas had planned before he sold LucasFilm to Disney and had conflicting view points with JJ Abrams Who did Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker
I refuse to treat this trilogy as canon. I’m just gonna consider it an alternate timeline, like in Marvel.
I understand why people don't like the sequels .. I've been a SW fan for about 40 years, and I really enjoyed them. They have their problems, but over all I really enjoyed them.. of course they could have been better and moments in TLJ that made me roll my eyes haha. I actually really liked Luke's arch.. again understand why other don't like it, but I did
I enjoyed them when I watched them, and TRoS answered the question of why the Sith are an imbalance in the Force, in a throwaway line! But they really could have been better and I will rewatch the first six but don't have much interest in seeing more of the sequels than the occasional reaction video now.
i hate how they treated Luke, in the original trilogy he wouldnt give up on his father and rescuing him from the dark side no matter what, but he sense a little of it in Ben and tries to kill him, its just something Luke would never do
@@steamro11r I think with Ben that was the first time we really see Luke "fail" at something he wanted to do and he didn't know how to handle it. Also, Luke only tried to kill Ben in Bens story.. not Luke's telling .. though this was a bit vague imo. Luke probably thought he defeated the Dark Side and seeing it come up again, and in his own nephew left a bad taste in his mouth as to this eternal conflict between the light and the dark. All the fighting accomplished nothing in the end. Yes we would all like to see Luke fly in and save the day, but I feel like those days were behind him and he wanted the world to figure it out by themselves. However he saw that he was wrong and did was he could to help the fight .. so he sacrificed himself to help the resistance escape without actually putting his enemy (in this case his nephew) at harm. He wasn't willing to kill Ben or put him in any real danger but knew he needed to help in some way.
The only positive feeling I have for this movie is planet Crait
I like all the different planets in the lore and Crait really adds to that and is memorable and unique
Pretty cool visual idea that speeders leave a red smoke screen line behind them over a white background
What??…you didn’t like purple prom dress?…
Visually all of these films are gorgeous. That's about it. Music too
Really? I think the conflict between Kylo and Rey is incredibly engaging, and I love it up until he turns. I was very ready for the two to join up and have a very different third movie.
@@ilikerice5208 not everybody can have high standards I guess
I felt like we got progression that didn’t lead any clear direction, it didn’t answer anything and just asked more. The question is whether or not you think the next film resolves everything in a satisfying way.
Come for the Natalie, stay for the Cameron. That intro was amazing, thank you for your humour and thank you Nat for hiring someone with such a wonderful sense of humour.
With time I've come to the determination that the sequel trilogy was a mess because of a lack of coherent vision across all 3 films. This is in stark contrast to how I felt about the prequel trilogy (initially thought it was the worst, with time appreciated the vision Lucas had even with the flaws). The original trilogy of course remains the best to me (being the one I grew up with). For this specific film of the sequel 3, I appreciate they tried to do the unexpected, it just didn't fit with the almost on rails behavior of the first as an homage (which is being generous, it was practically a copy) of A New Hope. Not to mention so much was changed it kind of ensured the 3rd movie would be almost impossible to make coherent regardless. I think they would have been better off having Abrams handle the first two then Johnson tackle the 3rd given how much he was resolving and changing in this one.
Would have been better if they had a cohesive plan from the start. Kennedy gave the directors way to much freedom.
I thought with the prequels, they built off of each other really well and in a way made the previous episode better in a way. The sequels detracted from each other l.
Holdo's jump to hyperspace was cinematically cool, but stupid. She could've killed Finn, Rose and Rey.
I really appreciate your honest opinion and the amount of work you put into your reactions. Personally I really hate what they did with the legacy characters. Everything that those characters stood for was just thrown out. Then they put together this incoherent script that just keeps contradicting it self in an attempt to seem intriguing but completely fails. To top it off they brush off criticism of these movies by gas lighting fans like it’s us that are the problem.
What they did to Luke was terrible, poor Mark Hammill was so mad about it
Glad they did some kind of redemption with Luke in The Mandalorian
lucasfilm under disney will forever be an example of how not to react to criticism
@@franksanchez8111 what do you mean? Luke is pretty awful in the mandalorian as well. Not as bad as he is here, but yes
@@dragonpaulz_ well at least he's presented as powerful and wise, he was the perfect person to take Grogu, thats something.
Still not as good as EU Luke but ok
@@franksanchez8111 the luke in mandalorian shows up, takes grogu, and then leaves. No conversation, no asking whats going in with the situation around, no anything besides just being a bland robot wearing lukes skin. If thats enough for you to see this dude cutting up some druids, then fair enough. But its a very superficial moment meant to bait fans.
Then in bobf hes even worse by going against the core values he held that helped him in the OT. Luke is really bad in the disney era
Love Natalie's fresh reactions - even all these years later and removed from the discourse of the fandom, parts of this really didn't hit and you can tell it's a very honest reaction. I'll never forget how gutted I felt coming out of TLJ after having so much fun with TFA. Some of the stuff in here is just so convoluted - Luke wants to destroy the Jedi texts, Yoda appears and helps burn them, Luke is all OMG THE TEXTS (that he was about to destroy..) and yoda tells the audience they're not important ultimately.. only for the movie to end with haha wink wink Rey actually has them it's fine everyone. Was refreshing to see Natalie had similar reactions to my own : )
Same man, I realized that TFA was just A New Hope Redux but it was still a good time with an interesting story, some great scenes (the first Falcon chase, Poe being an X-Wing piloting badass, etc.). One of the best lines in the entire SW universe (that's not how the force works!) and really felt like it had so much potential to be a sweet jumping off point for some really exciting things.
And then this movie happened.
I wish that they had just done a adaptation of "heir to the empire". The book series is one of my favorites and it stands up to this day. For anyone who has not read the books I would highly recommend it.
I also feel like they should have explored fins relationship with his past. And how he may have inner turmoil.
The eu was 90% unrestrained convoluted fan service BS. A purge was NEEDED. The fact that redacted was brought back heir to the empire style is one of the MAJOR missteps of that film
@The Stranger I would rather need the exact context of the quote (ala the Variety interview on the Halo tv show, often misquoted) and it may allude to what is allowable as source material, even since Lucas, or not. Still, supposedly ALL of it can be used in many ways (even fan art now, given SW Marvel's habit of tracing/copying parts)
I will NEVER call the old EU 90 percent fan service, however. Maybe 20 percent.
@@bemasaberwyn55 I've not interacted with as much of the EU as I probably should have so I'm not sure where I land regarding the percentage of convoluted fan service you're referencing (it's there. I'm not sure it's that much). Here's what I can say for the portion that I have interacted with:
The EU has always had a massive power scaling problem with Force wielders of both light and dark sides and I think the Fandom at large has needed to come to terms with that for a long time.
@@bemasaberwyn55 I'm not saying that they should have done a exact 1:1 copy of it. They should have used it to draw major ideas/plotpoints. At least they would have had one consistant vision for the story.
The sequels are not horrible(but not good). I feel like it should have been done better. It's starwars. They have an infinite amount of ideas and possibilities and MASSIVE amounts of lore to explore. And this was the best that they could do...
Nathalie opening the Star Wars Pandora box... Hahaha
I only watch the videos of movies I've already seen so it's been a while. Glad to see the sub count still ticking up!