After watching this I started thinking about what a beautiful place this is (the CtC channel). It's one of the few corners of RUclips, or indeed of the whole web, where I feel civility still holds true. Not only does the comment's section stay relatively clean, but there's a real sense of an online community where people unselfishly offer their help, advise and encourangement, not to mention all the setters who offer all these astonishing creations. I don't know...it just made me a little emotional, realizing that there still is room in this world for such place, and that profitability is not the force driving the development. Thank you, Mark and Simon, for bringing almost half a million people together and shining a light on some of these creations.
So generous of TallCat to take the time to share what he's learnt setting puzzles, presenting it with great order and humbleness I thought all these geniuses must have been setting puzzles for years and years, it gives me motivation to try it myself
Thanks for using this opportunity to mention some of the other sudoku RUclips channels. I didn’t realise zetamath was on RUclips - I just watched a few of his videos and found them both helpful and enjoyable, and I look forward to checking out the other channels you mentioned soon
Thank you Tallcat for this great video and for the time and work you put in it. Thanks also to all the setters who commented here, who made their own setting video and/or who constantly provide help and inspiration particularly on the Discord server.
I find these videos very enjoyable even though I'm not a setter, and only a moderate solver. It's intriguing to me to see other people's processing as they create these fantastic puzzles. Thank you Tallcat and CTC for putting it on your channel.
I agree with you #longway. I too am not a setter and have only just begun to nail most GAS puzzles, so am also fascinated at the way Tallcat and others share their setting experiences. A massive thank you to Simon and Mark too for encouraging setters in the way that they do. A technical note though - with mild aphasia where lip-reading helps me, I found it very hard to understand Tallcat's speech and accent. Cheers all.
This is yet another excellent, inspiring setting video. Tallcat and all the other setters have made this one of my cherished hobbies. Solving, setting, and watching. Many thanks to them and to Simon and Mark.
Tallcat is a blessed genius. Whenever I solve a puzzle by him, it really sticks out as a unique construction, and especially his amazing usage of between lines. I cannot wait to watch this and learn some of his secrets!
This is really interesting! I’ve always wondered and marvelled at how puzzles are set and what must go through setters minds when making a puzzle so I appreciate seeing and hearing about the process, it’s much more complex than I realised and makes me appreciate puzzles even more! Thankyou Tallcat for walking us through your process and for taking the time to set awesome puzzles for us to solve. And thankyou Simon and Mark and the whole cracking the cryptic community, this is the best community out there especially on RUclips in my opinion. I used to watch so many different types of videos on RUclips from all different types of communities but I often found there was always some sort of silly drama and negativity and it got so draining, eventually I stopped watching alot of things because the negativity within the communities of other people engaging with the same content really ruined it for me. So to come to this community and have it always be so positive and full of wonderful, kind, genuine and just all round awesome people is just so refreshing! And it brings me such comfort to know that when I’m in need of some positivity and good vibes, if I come to cracking the cryptic, the community will always deliver on that! So thankful for this community and every person who’s apart of it!
The first thing that strikes me is the time it must take to set these wonderful puzzles. Sometimes, as solvers, we take for granted the gems we are gifted. I thank all the setters for their patience and innovation.
Not really, in fact, I think they just make some symmetrical arts, give something in to make it case specific, then run the algorithm of sudoku (brute force) solver. When there's only one case (a valid puzzle), they can just submit. Not that much of time used, they just input the rules, and sit on their chair, wait for like... a few seconds or minutes (computers are darn fast y'know, if you know how to make one, it just doesn't have to check all 6*10^21 valid 9x9 sudoku boards, but a much lower number (I'd say under a trillion, which is quite small for a computer nowadays)), then retry 'till there's one. Altogether, including submitting, I'd say it's around an hour or two. Of course when you know just basic programming, you can make yourself a puzzle. But don't use it for solving, it takes all the fun.
@@jakayun4035 Qodec here. I have sometimes test-solved puzzles that were made like this, but really they're not much fun at all to solve. Fortunately this is the exception rather than the rule. Also I would strongly advise against submitting a puzzle once a brute-force solver says it has a single solution. You risk wasting a tester's time and then it's unlikely they'll touch a puzzle of yours again.
@@PuzzleQodec Agreeable, sudoku brute force solving algorithms lack the difficulty testing. For us it’s fun when it’s hard enough, not when a number is easily found and everything just collapses like a 4x4, or interesting enough, this one I can’t really describe mathematically. Cases where you have to wander around, eliminating this and that, to finally get a chance to put the first number after huge amount of logical reasonings. That’s the thing. And for the algorithms, they might need to add some more criteria for when there’s one case to somehow judge the skills and techniques required (namely Swordfish and stuff, you can tell). But for custom rules (such as 2 nearby digits on a custom line must be at least 4 in difference),… I think I’m not good enough of a programmer to make those reasonings for AI myself.
As someone who fairly recently started constructing myself, I am fascinated by the amount of time you take for this kind of puzzle. The first two puzzles that I set were fairly straightforward, in that I knew what I was aiming for, I put some constraints in the puzzle, and they took form pretty quickly. The last one, I had come up with a break in, and couldn't find a way to finish the puzzle. I toyed with it for what felt like a long time (about two weeks), and finally asked for someone to collab in order to get it done. Now I see that some of the masters take way longer than that routinely, and it gives me some new perspective. Thanks, Tallcat!
I will say that it can vary widely for me. Critical Mass was definitely a long one, but Scientific Method fell into place within a few hours of the break-in. Sometimes the initial idea is so tantalizing that i sit down and hammer out a working grid. Other times - as with Critical Mass - it comes in bits and pieces. But multiple days is typically the norm for me.
Fascinating and inspiring. I enjoyed this video very much - thank you for making it. So many things I liked about it, the great visuals, both the clear images of your screen as you showed the steps of your solve, but also the screen captures that showed Simon, Mark, and our wider world of sudoku on RUclips. I'm so glad to have seen this video; this is encouraging me toward more and more solving and maybe even a bit of setting. Thank you, Tailcat!
I find it interesting that the cascade-style logic was how both Tallcat and Simon thought about the opening; because, it very much was not how I was thinking about it while solving the puzzle. The way I saw it was that, because the ends of the renban have to repeat on the between line and the middle of the renban sees the endpoints of the between line in the column, all five digits on the renban must have values between the endpoints of the between line (if this weren't the case, the renban would have to cross over the value of one of the endpoints, which means it would have to appear on the renban); and, that immediately rules 1 and 9 off the renban.
Nice stuff! This has definitely encouraged me to just go ahead and play with the f puzzles tools to make some pretty shapes and see if a puzzle emerges
Very nice setter video tallcat! I feel we are on a very similar sudoku path. This was very inspiring and had great pointers. Amongst other things, I will try to be less allergic to given digits. I have set 20 sudokus now with only with only four digits between them. Incidentally, I wonder if anyone can set a sudoku like John Irving writes a book instead of King - with a very specific ending that takes a whole book to set up.
l've been thinking about a pretty cool unused math-y concept that l think might work well in a sudoku, but l'm not math-y enough to be sure when it'd be possible to solve, especially since the setting-program may not be able to check the logic if it's a concept that it doesnt have incorporated
Hi Spencer. There is an add-on extension script by Rangsk that incorporates them into the platform - i think more information is available on the Discord or at Rangsk's channel.
I had a random idea of a Sudoku puzzle using German Whispers and Kropki Dots, maybe either arrows or Renban lines if absolutely necessary, to make a "Frog" image in the grid. Call it "Froggy Dots". That said, I have tried a couple of the puzzles Simon's solved, and I keep getting stuck or (because of my wonky sleep schedule and night-shift job) falling asleep mid-solve. So I'm certain that any puzzle I tried to set would be utter shit.
As I note, I am certainly not a strong Sudoku solver (although setting puzzles has helped me improve a lot). The 'Wave Particles' puzzle by TotallyNormalCat that took Simon 50-some minutes, took me 5 hours (over 2 days) to solve.
My early puzzles were set with just the standard f-puzzles - and without the Rangsk solver incorporated. There are also some constraints not included in f-puzzles so i've had to do it the longer way around sometimes. It certainly makes it easier - but as noted, can run the risk of being reliant on the computer logic rather than human logic. I have immense respect for those setters who can set entirely on paper - i have not done so myself although it may be a useful exercise to try in the future.
As a general rule of thumb: use a computer program only to do stuff for you that you could have done yourself too. So technically it's not necessary, but if used well it'll save time.
After watching this I started thinking about what a beautiful place this is (the CtC channel). It's one of the few corners of RUclips, or indeed of the whole web, where I feel civility still holds true. Not only does the comment's section stay relatively clean, but there's a real sense of an online community where people unselfishly offer their help, advise and encourangement, not to mention all the setters who offer all these astonishing creations. I don't know...it just made me a little emotional, realizing that there still is room in this world for such place, and that profitability is not the force driving the development. Thank you, Mark and Simon, for bringing almost half a million people together and shining a light on some of these creations.
It says *so much* about someone when they are happy (even eager) to start off praising the work of others.
So generous of TallCat to take the time to share what he's learnt setting puzzles, presenting it with great order and humbleness
I thought all these geniuses must have been setting puzzles for years and years, it gives me motivation to try it myself
Thanks for using this opportunity to mention some of the other sudoku RUclips channels. I didn’t realise zetamath was on RUclips - I just watched a few of his videos and found them both helpful and enjoyable, and I look forward to checking out the other channels you mentioned soon
Thank you Tallcat for this great video and for the time and work you put in it. Thanks also to all the setters who commented here, who made their own setting video and/or who constantly provide help and inspiration particularly on the Discord server.
I find these videos very enjoyable even though I'm not a setter, and only a moderate solver. It's intriguing to me to see other people's processing as they create these fantastic puzzles. Thank you Tallcat and CTC for putting it on your channel.
I agree with you #longway. I too am not a setter and have only just begun to nail most GAS puzzles, so am also fascinated at the way Tallcat and others share their setting experiences. A massive thank you to Simon and Mark too for encouraging setters in the way that they do. A technical note though - with mild aphasia where lip-reading helps me, I found it very hard to understand Tallcat's speech and accent. Cheers all.
This is yet another excellent, inspiring setting video. Tallcat and all the other setters have made this one of my cherished hobbies. Solving, setting, and watching. Many thanks to them and to Simon and Mark.
Tallcat is a blessed genius. Whenever I solve a puzzle by him, it really sticks out as a unique construction, and especially his amazing usage of between lines. I cannot wait to watch this and learn some of his secrets!
Amazing explanation and insight into your setting process, Tallcat. I learn so much from listening to you.
Absolutely such a treat from you tallcat to provide this to us!! Huge, huge thank you!!
This is really interesting! I’ve always wondered and marvelled at how puzzles are set and what must go through setters minds when making a puzzle so I appreciate seeing and hearing about the process, it’s much more complex than I realised and makes me appreciate puzzles even more!
Thankyou Tallcat for walking us through your process and for taking the time to set awesome puzzles for us to solve.
And thankyou Simon and Mark and the whole cracking the cryptic community, this is the best community out there especially on RUclips in my opinion.
I used to watch so many different types of videos on RUclips from all different types of communities but I often found there was always some sort of silly drama and negativity and it got so draining, eventually I stopped watching alot of things because the negativity within the communities of other people engaging with the same content really ruined it for me. So to come to this community and have it always be so positive and full of wonderful, kind, genuine and just all round awesome people is just so refreshing! And it brings me such comfort to know that when I’m in need of some positivity and good vibes, if I come to cracking the cryptic, the community will always deliver on that!
So thankful for this community and every person who’s apart of it!
Thanks for sharing this!
Thanks for your insights!
The first thing that strikes me is the time it must take to set these wonderful puzzles. Sometimes, as solvers, we take for granted the gems we are gifted. I thank all the setters for their patience and innovation.
Not really, in fact, I think they just make some symmetrical arts, give something in to make it case specific, then run the algorithm of sudoku (brute force) solver. When there's only one case (a valid puzzle), they can just submit.
Not that much of time used, they just input the rules, and sit on their chair, wait for like... a few seconds or minutes (computers are darn fast y'know, if you know how to make one, it just doesn't have to check all 6*10^21 valid 9x9 sudoku boards, but a much lower number (I'd say under a trillion, which is quite small for a computer nowadays)), then retry 'till there's one.
Altogether, including submitting, I'd say it's around an hour or two.
Of course when you know just basic programming, you can make yourself a puzzle. But don't use it for solving, it takes all the fun.
@@jakayun4035 Qodec here. I have sometimes test-solved puzzles that were made like this, but really they're not much fun at all to solve. Fortunately this is the exception rather than the rule. Also I would strongly advise against submitting a puzzle once a brute-force solver says it has a single solution. You risk wasting a tester's time and then it's unlikely they'll touch a puzzle of yours again.
@@PuzzleQodec Agreeable, sudoku brute force solving algorithms lack the difficulty testing. For us it’s fun when it’s hard enough, not when a number is easily found and everything just collapses like a 4x4, or interesting enough, this one I can’t really describe mathematically.
Cases where you have to wander around, eliminating this and that, to finally get a chance to put the first number after huge amount of logical reasonings. That’s the thing.
And for the algorithms, they might need to add some more criteria for when there’s one case to somehow judge the skills and techniques required (namely Swordfish and stuff, you can tell). But for custom rules (such as 2 nearby digits on a custom line must be at least 4 in difference),… I think I’m not good enough of a programmer to make those reasonings for AI myself.
Thank you for showing this. It is awesome to see the other side of sodoku
As someone who fairly recently started constructing myself, I am fascinated by the amount of time you take for this kind of puzzle. The first two puzzles that I set were fairly straightforward, in that I knew what I was aiming for, I put some constraints in the puzzle, and they took form pretty quickly. The last one, I had come up with a break in, and couldn't find a way to finish the puzzle. I toyed with it for what felt like a long time (about two weeks), and finally asked for someone to collab in order to get it done. Now I see that some of the masters take way longer than that routinely, and it gives me some new perspective. Thanks, Tallcat!
I will say that it can vary widely for me. Critical Mass was definitely a long one, but Scientific Method fell into place within a few hours of the break-in. Sometimes the initial idea is so tantalizing that i sit down and hammer out a working grid. Other times - as with Critical Mass - it comes in bits and pieces. But multiple days is typically the norm for me.
This is also true for any other form of art. Any single point Tallcat brings up in the video is also true for any other form of art. This is high art.
thanks for the awesome video Tallcat! nice to see that we share a lot of the same principles when setting 😃
Fascinating and inspiring. I enjoyed this video very much - thank you for making it. So many things I liked about it, the great visuals, both the clear images of your screen as you showed the steps of your solve, but also the screen captures that showed Simon, Mark, and our wider world of sudoku on RUclips. I'm so glad to have seen this video; this is encouraging me toward more and more solving and maybe even a bit of setting. Thank you, Tailcat!
Lovely video Tallcat. Setting is such a wonderful craft and your explanation was thorough and helpful for novice and experienced alike
Thanks so much for this insight and sharing your talent with us!
That was very interesting, thank you.
I find it interesting that the cascade-style logic was how both Tallcat and Simon thought about the opening; because, it very much was not how I was thinking about it while solving the puzzle. The way I saw it was that, because the ends of the renban have to repeat on the between line and the middle of the renban sees the endpoints of the between line in the column, all five digits on the renban must have values between the endpoints of the between line (if this weren't the case, the renban would have to cross over the value of one of the endpoints, which means it would have to appear on the renban); and, that immediately rules 1 and 9 off the renban.
Nice stuff! This has definitely encouraged me to just go ahead and play with the f puzzles tools to make some pretty shapes and see if a puzzle emerges
I set a puzzle and didnt know how to "send it out there" that vid helped me thank you.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights! 👍👍👍
Very nice setter video tallcat!
I feel we are on a very similar sudoku path.
This was very inspiring and had great pointers.
Amongst other things, I will try to be less allergic to given digits. I have set 20 sudokus now with only with only four digits between them.
Incidentally, I wonder if anyone can set a sudoku like John Irving writes a book instead of King - with a very specific ending that takes a whole book to set up.
Thanks for this insight setting sudoku puzzles 👍
Fascinating , thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the video! It's amazing to see how this is done. I could never do this lol.
l've been thinking about a pretty cool unused math-y concept that l think might work well in a sudoku, but l'm not math-y enough to be sure when it'd be possible to solve, especially since the setting-program may not be able to check the logic if it's a concept that it doesnt have incorporated
How did you get renban and whisper constraints in fpuzzles? Do you have to download them somehow? When I go to the website they are not there.
Hi Spencer. There is an add-on extension script by Rangsk that incorporates them into the platform - i think more information is available on the Discord or at Rangsk's channel.
I had a random idea of a Sudoku puzzle using German Whispers and Kropki Dots, maybe either arrows or Renban lines if absolutely necessary, to make a "Frog" image in the grid. Call it "Froggy Dots".
That said, I have tried a couple of the puzzles Simon's solved, and I keep getting stuck or (because of my wonky sleep schedule and night-shift job) falling asleep mid-solve. So I'm certain that any puzzle I tried to set would be utter shit.
As I note, I am certainly not a strong Sudoku solver (although setting puzzles has helped me improve a lot). The 'Wave Particles' puzzle by TotallyNormalCat that took Simon 50-some minutes, took me 5 hours (over 2 days) to solve.
How vital is a computer programme when setting a puzzle? All respect to those who manage without.
My early puzzles were set with just the standard f-puzzles - and without the Rangsk solver incorporated. There are also some constraints not included in f-puzzles so i've had to do it the longer way around sometimes. It certainly makes it easier - but as noted, can run the risk of being reliant on the computer logic rather than human logic. I have immense respect for those setters who can set entirely on paper - i have not done so myself although it may be a useful exercise to try in the future.
As a general rule of thumb: use a computer program only to do stuff for you that you could have done yourself too. So technically it's not necessary, but if used well it'll save time.
Hi, I have set my first puzzle ever, but I am not able to access the discord channel. Can someone help me? I want to test this puzzle out
There is a link to access the Discord under every CTC video.
@@tallcat Thanks! I joined discord :) and thanks for inspiring me to make a puzzle
@@arshgulati You're welcome, and I am glad you felt inspired :)
Poor bot must feel really confused...