Will Other Teams Copy the Ruthless Vegas Model?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- They have not been shy about trading assets whenever it suits them, no matter the name on the back of the jersey. Is the 2024 off-season a sign other teams could be starting to head in that same direction?
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They like to roll the dice. The most Vegas thing ever.
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HIGH ROLLERS! AND HERE'S THE MAN WITH THE ACTION, THE HOCKEY GUY!
Vegas is like be a gm mode irl
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I think I treat my players in gm mode better than vegas does lol
@@robertjennings6062 Lmao that's why you will never have a cup
Nah, teams will be copying the Leafs method.
1. Coddle and overpay your stars while never holding them accountable
2. Keep running back a losing formula for the lolz
3. Never win anything ever
I’m not a leaf’s fan, fkin far from it BUT they’re still in their SC window… their best players are all in their prime,every cup winning side has had a solid core and as much as people try to shit on them, theyve got probably one of, if not the best core in the league, they just need to ding the right depth pieces, kinda like when the pens traded for hagelin and bonino, it’s just a matter of time before they go on a run but little bell end lickers like you can never seem to understand that lmao…
What are you talking about, winning the North division during the one off COVID year has to be the greatest achievement of all time. The Leafs were literally THE BESTEST Canadian team, which are the only ones that matter anyway. I mean, yeah the playoffs didn't go well, but those Frenchies just got lucky. The Stanley cup is just a bonus to the regular season anyway, playoffs are the time to relax after racking those regular season points.
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@@BloodRider1914and how’d that go in the playoffs? Who gives a shit about their regular season? They can’t even get out of the first round
Vegas fan here. It’s extremely disappointing that Marchessault didn’t stay. At the end of the day, both Marchessault and management tried to get a deal done. Vegas didn’t want a long term deal (5 years). We’re all going to miss Marchessault but I understand why he left and why management let him go
If they win --- all sins forgiven.
According to marchy, they didn’t try very hard. Who knows for sure
@@BryanVGK23 We don't know for sure, but Vegas is know for doing this.
Meh-chessault, he’ll regress
Actually after a recent interview with Marchy, it now it sounds like Vegas was actually giving him a long term one, just at a lower AAV, so like 7x$3 or something like that. Makes it even more head scratching
I do love the revisionist history that you mention in the videos. There are really people that insist they knew vegas would be good in year 1 even though there weren't really any writers, youtubers, analysts, etc saying so. People even say Vegas drafted nothing but 2nd line players 😂😂😂
I'm nobody but I did think Vegas would be good. No, not cup final good, but playoff birth good. Many wrote them off as an expansion team as if the rules weren't so very generous. They had MAF and a d-core who wouldn't allow them to suck. Factor in motivation from the shooting tragedy and it got toward predictable. I definitely didn't predict the top line success or Nate Schmidt playing like a true #1.
@BTcaice ironically I remember the defense being pretty scrutinized when they were first made. The goaltending was the one thing that most said would at least be ok. That tandem was Fleury and Pickard. Pickard didn't even make it out of training camp before he was released. I think even the people around here in Vegas though well they won't be good but at least we have a team now. Even with the expansion rules.
Anybody who actually knows hockey knew they were gonna be good. The expansion draft is setup to allow a competent front office to easily assemble a highly competitive team. There were way too many teams loaded with talent that were forced to either give up really good players or swing a deal to keep them.
@xeper9458 ok so in that same hand, you knew Seattle would be good in their first season too right....but they weren't. And if it's "anyone that knows hockey" why did so many insiders get it insanely wrong? Most people were calling vegas to win 30 games or less.
@@slasher1087 No those were two different situations. The teams were better prepared for Seattle because they had much more time to prepare and had gone through it before. The players that were available were of much better quality overall the first time around with Vegas.
As a VGK fan and season ticket holder, I've seen Vegas make a lot of moves. Not all of them have worked out, and they seem to fully concede those mistakes and don't engage in the sunk cost fallacy.
On the other side, I've seen them rescue several players from the scrap heap which have worked out better than anybody could have predicted. William Karlsson thrived in his first year with Vegas. Ryan Carpenter was picked up on waivers and played a few good years. Chandler Stephenson played far better for Vegas than Washington and was rewarded with a big money contract from Seattle (I'm really happy he got that kind of cash, but my gut tells me the Kraken overpaid). Adin Hill wasn't good enough to be a backup with the Sharks and less than a year later was a Stanley Cup winning goaltender (and got a two year deal with great money). Amadio had a decent year with Vegas in their Cup year.
On a side note, it also seems to me that Vegas has dropped players who they think might have peaked. Marchessault is 33 and got a five year deal with Nashville. We'll see how he looks in year five of the contract. He might be steal or be a part of a group that wins a Cup with them, or it might not work out.
every year in montreal we thank vegas for giving us Suzuki and Tatar for Max Pac
@@chrisbelos2834 Here in Vegas we're thankful for winning the Cup in 2023.
Adin Hill did not matter on the sharks. The knights were on pace to win the cup even had Hill never played in the playoffs at all. He is not worth his great money contract at all.
Max Pac got injured right after he became a cane.
Found your channel pre draft. I'm a Sharks fan and wanted to say hi and love the channel. You got my sub!
Welcome! If you love hocjey and miss good coverage and analytics, you are now home..
@@Vegland no doubt!
Macklin Celebrini will be a Sharks legend. He'll 100% win a Cup with them. 👨🐋🏒🏆
Welcome to this great community. Somehow despite very contentious subject matter(pro sports) things tend to be rather mellow and reasonable here :)
@jasoncox9883 Welcome aboard! You can literally spend hours upon hours just watching the content that Shannon has put out over the years. If you have any questions relating to hockey, there is a video from Shannon
Managing a hockey team is not a sentimental business. It's about trying to put the most competitive team you can on the ice.
And the Vegas way is not the way. They will always be chasing the next flashy name while other teams grow their prospects into stars.
@@ryans413Few of a team's prospects grow into stars. As such, those teams rarely are as good as Vegas has been.
@@ryans413It's fine as long as they keep getting the washed-up guys the prospects are replacing. Eventually Vegas could just stop working altogether, but as long as management continues to be effective it should be fine
If Vegas keeps going like this it'll become the black sheep of the NHL. No players are going to want to sign there if they're treated like a commodity. Already seen the start of it this year. How many players didn't return that they thought were going too?
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It’s the WHL Kelly Mcrimmon model that can quickly fortify a team . Works pretty good and a good way to keep competitive . They are professionals and well compensated players . NHL is the only big league that is slow on this model . And look my Knights still have a great lineup after all the subtractions.
I hate Vegas, but tbh their aggresive model of going after the hot commodity player is underrated. If it wasn’t for injuries, they very well could have gone even further in their other non-cup years.
Respect
I thought "injured" players were a feature of their aggressive model.
@@MikeHarvey-ol7xr Yeah, I guess it became one later 😂 but even before then if I recall they had injuries to guys like Paciorretty, Pietrangelo, Martinez, various goalies, Eichel, Stone, etc in 2022 (I might be wrong on some of these I’m going off of memory). The narrative definitely changed when they consistently used the ltir and injured players were magically healthy for the playoffs.
Good point. For "some reason" i ended up thinking of the good old days of sharks that some call my canes as new incarnation of(i can see why) and i was not really back in watching nhl then but would it have maybe got them over the hump to be more ruthless at the height of the teams success?
@@MikeHarvey-ol7xr eh, they play a hard and big game, injuries are built in. Hell this year their entire D core didn't play a game together until... game 45 of something? You don't rotate d men like that for cap stuff.
It is pretty ruthless to let your franchise leader in almost every category and Conn Smythe winner walk away in disappointment. He's entering his final years, but he still just had a 42-goal season. Either way, Nashville's stacked and are in win now mode.
He said himself that Vegas' final offer was the same amount of money Nashvilles, but he preferred Nashville's pay structure. If pennies in interest is "letting someone walk in disappointment", enjoy your pennies I guess.
Not facilitating a pennies ask is disappointing though.
The hate Vegas is getting is pathetic. Y’all
Are such haters. Not seeing even half of the hate for Tampa who signed guentzel
Over their captain brought them 2 cups. Just sad but whatever, haters gonna hate. That cup was so satisfying
@@Cup_in_6 lol the did it once. Vegas has done this about 6 times now, they have the reputation, so they get the hate. Always Vegas fans who don't understand hockey or why they're hated lol
@@niiiiiiccceee we’re hated cause we win. Sorry your team isn’t on our level. Let one player go even though we offered the same amount of money and still blah blah. Pathetic. Keep crying bud
Damn, I’ve been looking at those gentleman’s club glitter jerseys for so long I forgot how nice the original Vegas jersey is😅
Vegas has some really nice jerseys
now if only they weren't so damn expensive.
@LSA30 this made me laugh so hard lol. Gentleman's club glitter hahahah I'll never unsee it now.
The grey jersey with the gold helmets perfect combo.
An important note from Kelly McKrimmon after the Marchessault departure. He stated this is the first season in 6 seasons where they have not been limitted by their non-existent cap space. Giving an opportunity to league minimum contracts and depth players leave room for snipes from our pro scouts. Also, players like Dorofeyev, Korzack, Holtz and Aston-Reese have an opportunity to crack the lineup.
Aston-Reese is ass though, he barely cracked Toronto when he was there
@@xlr0gd205Not like it would matter if he didn’t make it. He can play with Henderson this season if that’s the case, and I’d happily go watch them.
Shannon, you are a content machine and I finally saw one of your uploads in the first 30 seconds!
There is no sunk cost fallacy in Vegas. They want to rotate the core around throwing aging vets to younger team friendly deals. I think the unsung hero of this is scouting. Vegas has great scouting for targeting trades and acquisitions on a bargain.
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Because our owner is a private equity guy.
I think George has trained the owner, and the recipie has worked well. Sometimes a strategy works, sometimes it doesn't. They did seem to be able to turn chicken poop to soup.
I think the Vegas strategy is very smart on paper. Hack and slash at a team as you fine tune it to get the best performance, like a game of chess, all players are pieces that serve a roll until they're no longer needed and they sacrifice for the bigger picture.
What I think is going to bite them in the ass down the stretch is the human element. As they build a reputation of cutting players and trading them off regardless of how well they do (Like Marchessault), they're going to alienate a lot of players they may want to pick up. I think over time, players will be less eager to sign for the team if they're thinking they'll be tossed after a season or two, if they move with their families, the worry that they'll need to uproot their lives even if they're playing well.
Big concern that everyone's job on the team is precarious, and the roster is volatile, people will prefer to sign for term on teams that will keep their big performers.
@@EskimowSC the thing is Marchessault wasn't dumped, he chose to decline the three year deal at a higher AAV. If he really wanted to stay he would have taken it. Hopefully he does well in Nashville, cos look what happened to Pacioretty after he threw shade at Vegas 😂
Thank GOD for someone outside the fan base FINALLY remembering how bad Vegas was supposed to be coming out of that draft. No one thought anything of them at all. Everyone thought they would suck. Then when they won everyone "see i told you they were gunna be good. The draft was rigged. The leage set them up to be good"
True Story! The staggering amount of "Told You So" is staggering.
The knights had the biggest unfair advantage in NHL history as an expansion team at that time. The March, Smith and MAF acquisitions was not something every other team had the option to do even if they wanted to. Many teams would have instantly got a lot better with MAF.
@@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants Man I don't want to be confrontational, and thanks for Tomas but...
Hind sight is 20/20. Florida didn't protect Marchy because they didn't want him. Not because they couldn't. Smith, again, wasn't wanted. Flower was over the hill and everyone knew it, then he revitalized his career and won a Vezina.
The issue I have with your comment and ones like is is that they completely ignore the facts of the time. The facts where Vegas was expected to, based on their roster, be a middle of the pack team. A great example of this is that everyone talks about Marchy or Smith and Flower but never remembers the absolute unit that Wild Bill turned into after being tossed aside. He holds the Vegas record for most goals in a season. They were called misfits for a reason. No amount of hyperbole about how stacked Vegas was at the time or how the NHL rigged the draft will negate the fact that pundits and fans counted the Vegas roster out the second the list was published. Fight it all you want.
You are just making things up. Everyone knew they would be good
@@nickm8940 MAF was better than many teams goalies but his cap hit was high. Pitt had replaced him which is why they wanted to dump him to vegas.
I am almost certain the sharks were on MAFs no trade list. He obviously wanted out of Pitt because he had to agree to go to Vegas personally or it would not have happened.
I agree many thought Vegas would be bad the first year it does not change the fact the NHL changed the expansion protection rules to give the biggest unfair advantage at that time to vegas.
It also does not change the fact that many teams did not have the cap room to take on the MAF contract and his no trade clause was a big road block for them. I would assume some GMs do not even try hard when they find out the player they want has their team on the no trade list. There is always exceptions like the knights did with Hertl.
Pitt wanted MAF gone so bad they paid Vegas a free 2nd round pick to take him.
March had good stats on flo. It is baffling what the context was there they would be jumping up and down to dump a player with good stats. They might have had a valid reason but it looks very silly from my POV now. It looked silly to me even at the time. He was not even making 800k a year at the time and was a 51 point player.
Many GMs and presidents do foolish things though. At least Pitt had the MAF replacement even though they regretted that trade later.
Some knights fans though have no idea the expansion rules were changed just for them to help them.
In other news, companies don't care about their employees 😮
It's not their job. Take care of yourself.
How many times has a team kept the gang together only to regret it years later when theyre all old and slow? Caps, Pens, Sharks, Hawks...
Problem is Vegas will always be chasing that flashy name while other teams grow their prospects into stars and use older players as depth. Enjoy your one cup that’s all Vegas is going to win for awhile.
@@ryans413 All of your comments are gassing up prospects and vets as if it's a guaranteed recipe for success. And while you're not entirely wrong, you are missing a big part of what their organization does - invest. Whether that be in prospects or older players with depth, Vegas wants their moneys worth, period.
The hard truth is that putting all your eggs in one basket full of young kids and older guys is a bigger gamble than what Vegas is currently doing, which is picking and choosing high quality 20-29 year old players that they know can actually win them games, simple as that.
So, your team can go ahead and turn prospects into stars all they want, that's fine...but in the end, it's teams like Vegas that will buy them in their prime.
I wish Tampa would hold onto their franchise players, Stamkos was everything to our city and the fans .
If he signed 4x8 in tampa and was tanking the team financially for the last 3 years of the contract preventing them from contending, you'd probably think a little differently about it
agreed bot...
You literally just copied and pasted my comment.
Winning the Cup made me relax about what McCrimmon does. I'm sorry to see Marchessault go (as I was sad to see Fluery go), but McCrimmon knows
much more than I or most fans know. So, I'm just curious and excited about what happens next season. Chances are the VGK will be just as competitive as they've been
over the last 7 seasons.
Vegas cap space :1m. You don't have cap to do anything so I don't know what you think your gm has planned.....but it's nothing. There's no cap to do anything. He had to let players walk in free agency in order to shed that 18m and get back under the cap dude lmao
@@ScottStenlund-x9m next year they’re going to have $20 million in cap. Space. You don’t sign marchessault till 39 now Eichel is a different story because he is a superstar. So yes, he probably will get the longer contract because they want him around. Marchessault florist because of Jack Eichel. Look at his numbers before Eichel arrived, an after he was there . Marchessault it’s going to fall off.
@@sincityvgk_961 no he wont
@@sincityvgk_961 Nashville is pretty stacked now dude lmao
@@sincityvgk_961 they still have Ryan O'Reilly. Forsberg, Idr their elite defenceman name right now but they have him etc
The Leafs could learn a thing or four.
But they are the Laughs which means they'll learn nothing
Could. Will?
A real Spot-On video. Having witnessed this from the beginning, I can't help but fully agree with you. But, Vegas is acquiring a reputation within the playing community that coming here is a temp job, no matter what. As long as that is understood by all parties, Vegas will continue in this format. There will always be players willing to come here because of the no State Income Tax laws. Good article in today's local paper detailing how much it doesn't cost players to come here.
@suestruve1786 Those are great points. Plus a chance to win that's very enticing. Patriot players took pay cuts for a chance to win a super bowl. The business goes both ways.
The agreement the Knights have with players is simple: Come here and we’ll give you the opportunity to win…but as soon as we feel we can do better without you, you’re gone.
As someone who got my cousin into hockey during Vegas’ first year and have somewhat watched them grow together, I have a bit of a soft spot for the VGK. I gotta say, it’s been sad to see the players they’ve let go during the off season, but it rarely hasn’t paid off for them. They handle the team exactly like a business, which at the end of the day it is. My hawks were bottom dwellers for most of my childhood until they got an owner who treated it like a business and the cups followed.
Love the way you broke down the timeline and what their lines will (likely) look like next year. VGK will be fine, and stone will return in time for the playoffs. It’s all good!
Great video as per usual Shanon thanks for all your hard work
Vegas seems to understand better than most teams that players are worth money. Letting someone walk as a UFA is fine. You get the cap space. If you're worried about a fan favourite leaving because they want more than you think they're worth then just walk them out the door. Spend the money elsewhere.
Contrast that with the Leafs, who will probably buckle to the pressure to not lose Marner "for nothing" and sign him to a big extension with a substantial raise. He's not worth it. If you tried to trade him right now I doubt there would be any takers. If he went to UFA he'd probably make less than he's making right now. Marner and his agent know they've got the Leafs over a barrel. If they lose him for nothing the fanbase will freak out. But they can't trade him. So it's a choice between the embarrassment of walking him to free agency or overpay him on an extension. Vegas doesn't care about embarrassment. They have confidence in their approach.
Absolutely. Why Vegas will always be better than the Leafs.
The hawks really screwed themselves with the massive contracts with Keith,Toews, and Kane along with NTCs in each. Set them back quite a bit.
Winning is everything.
Thats one frame of mind.
Some would say that the experience is in the journey more than the destination.
Besides, if that were true the Leafs wouldnt be the most successful/valuable franchise in hockey.
And the Sabres, Jets, Canucks, Sharks, etc wouldnt exist.
This mentality probably only works for teams operating in attractive environments. Doubt being ruthless would work in lol markets like Calgary or Winnipeg.
That sounds like a version of she’s ugly but has a great personality.
If they keep operating they way do are right now, it will be 93 to infinity for Canada ever winning a cup again 😂
@@DiogenesTheCynic. Edmonton got so close. No Nurse but 1.5 proper d men instead. No Campbell and using that cap space on any combination of NHL players instead. They would have smashed Florida. But two big mistakes can cost you. Leafs working with 5 so they’re cooked.
@@baohoaily great point.
It's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late - Branch Rickey
Flower being a prime example.
There's no loyalty in 95 percent of businesses anymore so this isn't surprising .
Vegas has zero cap space to keep anyone right now
Loyalty? Employees have no problems just quitting whenever they want. Why should the employer be any different?
Vegas. Making every NHL video game GM thrilled.
I just like the fact that they started out with their identity being a bunch of misfits that were cast away by their teams. Only to do the exact same thing even more ruthlessly 😂
Won a cup 🤷🏻♂️
@@Cup_in_6 yeah just after they dumped those guys. Not saying it didnt work
Vegas fan here. That’s literally not the case, though. They won in Vegas despite being castoffs from their original teams. However, unfortunately, players age. And in a salary cap league GMs have to make smart financial decisions. The Misfits served their purpose both on and off the ice here in Vegas. But, the team will exist beyond when these players retire. And management must ensure that the team is successful going forward. “Cup in Six” didn’t mean that the franchise will only be around for six years and then fold.
@@SteveEagles dumped who exactly? Name one move Vegas hasn’t hit on that led to the cup. Every move is a home run.
@@Cup_in_6 you realize I’m not attacking them right? It can be a hit and be dumping the players. Karlsson is the only original Knight left that’s my only point.
Mindbending! it would be interesting to see a video about all of the draft picks that have come in & gone out from day one in Vegas. as well as the players attached.
I think people also don't mention about how some guys have come to vegas on a discount because they weren't attractive to teams. Vegas has been able to increase their value and purchasing power, and once they move on, they can get more money from a new team. It's a win win. Vegas gets what they wanted from the player and then sells, the player increases their value and can get paid more, and a new team sees a great chance to get a great player. VGK is basically flipping houses but with players. Genius.
If I remember correctly, the only analyst who gave any kind of credit to vegas in their first year was Mike Johnson. He saidbthat they could potentially compete for a wildcard spot. That's the best prediction they got.
In hindsight, I am glad we kept the Sedins and spent $14 million in cap space for them. Because that would've been the year Jim Benning took over as GM and he would've spent those $14 million on 3 or 4 albatross contracts right away. When the Sedins retired in 2018, Benning stupidly spent all those cap space by overpaying Beagle, Roussel and Schaller and it's the same seaon he extended Gudbranson and the only 2 years removed from Eriksson.
Vegas is the one team that treats players like a business. Players are assets not people to them. (Nothing wrong with that tbh).
Watch them go after Draisaitl if he goes to ufa
Speaking of a copying Vegas, Kane is about to go on LTIR in Edmonton. We'll see him in the playoffs.
This is how you win cups. Sam Pollock in tge 1970s traded away older star players to struggling teams to get high draft picks. That was the last time Montreal won multiple cups.
Vegas shed a lot of their Cup Winning players this deadline. When you chase the shiny new player, eventually you won’t be able afford the smaller guys.
Growing pains for an aggressive team.
The Cup winning team didn't perform this season. I think they made the right choice letting Marchy walk.
Amadio is probably the only one of the bunch that walked that should've been kept
It's quite similar to the NFL recently as well. When the Rams went out and got Aaron Donald, got Stafford and jalin Ramsey. Compared to the patriots style which had been dominate previously.
Yes. The side effect you already saw this year is more players treating themselves as commodities, so they're less motivated to stay in one spot. If you have a pending UFA with no kids, you better lock him up July 1 of the previous year.
Vegas showed us that ever since their inception, they show one thing:
There are winners and there are the rest of us, and even if you’re loyal to one organization, you’re eventually gonna become an expendable.
This will begin to backfire as those teams slip in competing as free agents will choose teams that are more loyal
Legacy and emotions have their place, but don't win cups. Sometimes hard choices have to be made for the good of the team. Yes it's ruthless, but I also kind of respect the singular focus and strategy. It certainly makes things interesting, and I think that's probably better for the NHL to attract new fans when there's always a dramatic story happening regarding player movement.
Vegas actions hopefully makes free agents hesitant to sign there in the future
You missed the Pietrangelo pick up in free agency and the trade of Nate Schmidt.
Personally, especially if the player has delivered you multiple cups, you owe him more than this. You at least owe him a genuine try to keep him. The fact that he was not contacted last year I think is a massive mistake, I am not saying they HAVE to keep him, but really working with him throughout the year to find a way to make it work when someone has been so big for your team.
Vegas only won one with Marchessault. So not multiple, so its ok.
@@AlexAnteroLammikko i think hes talking about stamkos.
Stammer didnt even play but one minute in the first successful cup run. Just sayin
@@JSawmill63 didnt play a single minute yet somehow still managed to score a goal, a real prodigy
@@Renegade322 learn to read
Great video
I think an underrated argument against Vegas' way of doing things is fan engagement. Vegas fans are going to tune in one day and wonder who any of these players are.
But will keep watching if they keep winning.
Washington comes to mind when you mentioned loyalty.
It'll be interesting to see how this style of cutthroat GMing will affect the franchise 10-15 years from now. Can they keep attracting big names with little to no security. Does a fanchise altering player come out of their rookie contract and see Vegas as a landing spot? Will their players lay everything out if they dont feel any sense loyalty or appreciation? Does the fanbase continue to buy merch at high levels if the guy on their jersey is playing for a different team next season? Fun for videogames, but i guess we will see if its sustainable 🤷♂️
All players care about is money. They will go no matter how bad it is.
Every year in free agency terrible organizations sign top players in every sport.
Vegas runs their team like how I play franchise mode.
Once Gretzky got traded its opened the door for anybody
vegas management truly plays it like they are at the high roller poker table
VGK have missed the playoffs once. Once. McCrimmon and Foley aren’t clowns.
Only missed once because the refs decided not to help them that year
@@ryans413 you’re on whose roster?
Making the playoffs and losing early yearly where you do not have cap room like the leafs do is clown like.
The sharks are in a better position than the leafs even just for the cap and prospects.
Get this man his own NHL show ASAP
He does, it's right here
Shannon has, by his own making, the best NHL show, RUclips or otherwise. And, as it's his, he can construct it, build it and alter it exactly as he sees fit, which is admirable and fantastic. He has worked hard every day to maintain and improve the channel, and we lucky people are the ones who benefit, so let's keep liking, subscribing and enjoying this man's creation.
no point since the fans would want him to do the exact same as here BUT a segment in a hockey show when theres no game being played where he can appear on the big screen live from the jersey room with his board could be nice (yes when theres no games because he cant miss them) and obviously at first we'd have the good old ''yeah i actually never leave this room'' and all that
Careful what you wish for. RUclips --> TV transitions rarely work. At least Shannon has 100% say in how these videos are made, the same cannot be said for anything on TV.
As Vegas fan, I’m fine with the GMs ruthless approach as at the end of the day you don’t win championships by sentiment and clinging onto aging players and so far this approach has worked; 2023 and staying in contention and not going into a full rebuild
Of course you are because you are a fan with blinders on.
@@ryans413And you’re different?
I think Vegas has revolutionized the NHL. It's refreshing to see teams (even though it's only Vegas just now) concentrate on best player so we can win.
Rangers have been doing it since 93. All the former oilers, Jagr, Kane, the list goes on. still no cup tho
@@DavidBlack-os9pl I think the excitement from Vegas has also greatly increased hockey's popularity
Meanwhile in Toronto Management puts a chocolate on the stars pillows before tucking them in at night even though they have done Jack fucking shit.
One thing I remember from the Caps first Stanley Cup contender run in the late 1990s (culminating in getting swept by the Wings juggernaut in 98) is that they were dealing a lot of players trying to get that missing piece and get over the hump (didn't make it), but it was when they dealt Richard Zednik that they really fell off standings wise. The Caps were 41-27-10 the year Zednik was dealt, and 36-33-11 the year after and in the cellar by 2003-04. I'm wondering if the variability of the star players production doesn't matter that much to the team's chances, like changing the brand of motor oil in the engine, but you pull out the team's spark plug (Zednik was 110% on the ice, a pest, and a fan favorite), and the whole thing falls apart. The Caps acquired Jagr from the Penguins during that period and he didn't help them at all.
Just the meta angle of players being paid big bucks for top line stats like goals and points, save percentages and defensive shut downs; while guys that keep possession, fight along the boards, hit people, and win 50-50 chances don't get paid as much (and don't get called busts when they underperform), but are much more valuable to the team as a unit.
The way the golden knights are run reminds me of the New England Patriots at the height of their dynasty. Both teams will ruthlessly get rid of players that are underperforming or who they feel or over the hill in pursuit of talent that is younger and will keep the team winning. This is why players signed with the Patriots and why they sign with Vegas, because they want to win even if it means getting dumped earlier than expected.
I would say more like the LA Rams with how they deal out draft picks and how they run their front office better than most franchises.
@@akdeadline218 I don't put the Rams in that category just yet because they haven't done it as consistently as the Patriots did it during their heyday
Got to say I am going to miss marchessault. Additionally Stephenson was always great towards the kids during warmups. If you went to the glass he was sure to acknowledge you and most likely flip you a puck. Beyond that I am happy for him, carrier and Stephenson. They are all signing contracts they have earned. Neither one would have received long term contracts at this price if they stayed. People need to look beyond what they themselves want as a fan and realize how big of a deal this is for these players to move on and make more money than if they stayed. Is it ruthless on Vegas’s part (?) maybe but it is a win win and for the players I am ecstatic.
Vegas has excellent pro scouting.
"It's nothing personal; it's just business." -- Vegas
Loyalty only has value if it can be exploited for the benefit of the franchise. This is the harsh reality of professional sports. They all chase the cup because success = more fan interest = more revenue generated. Newer teams that can't rely on history and firmly established brand identity for guaranteed income have to be especially ruthless in order to be successful as fast as possible.
Not the way to do business enjoy the one and only cup you got. Wouldn’t be surprised if Mark Stone magically goes on LTIR again
I think this is just a logical progression.
You have a salary cap. You have free agency. You have teams that are being run as businesses.
The goal is to get good enough to win a Cup at the price you are willing to pay to build a team.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this.
When much beloved players on a team no longer fit into this equation, regardless how much the fans are going to scream and shout, this is what happens.
I live near Tampa, so they are my "home team". If jettisoning Stammer and Sergy bring a championship back to Tampa, I think most "fans" would be good with that. But if they totally suck next year, or make the playoffs and get ousted in the first round, "fans" are going to whine and shake their heads and blame the management of the team.
It is what it is.
The days of loyalty are over. I think players completely understand this and are good with it, otherwise the CBA would not have been voted in.
Every other major sports league does the same thing. Why do hockey people think the NHL should be different?
Not sure about that Hertl contract. Its not going to age well i dont think.
if the winning doesn't continue this will backfire, absolutely gutted that marchy is gone
Some teams will probably adopt the Vegas model in building a team. This is a relatively new approach and it worked. Ideally, I like to see teams build through the draft and undrafted free agent signings. The draft approach takes 5-6 years before determining if the team will be strong or not.But then some players a team drafts get too expendive to keep. Different GMs will have different approaches but the Vegas model is not going away anytime soon.
You can't be emotionally attached to any players if you want to win. The desire to win has to come first. It's as simple as that. A GM's job is to give his or her team the best shot at winning. Holding onto aging players with bloated contracts because of "legacy" doesn't help you achieve that goal which is to WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.
You don't have to hold on to everyone, trading Fleury wasnt the problem, not putting any thought into him and what he did for that organization and didn't tell him beforehand and thanking him for his role in making them what they are is BS
then all your players will be nervous that any game might be their last and not one is gonna dare buying a home near...the effort they put in might someday be affected also
This is 100% correct. At the end of the day, it's a business and a business wins with the latest innovation/product/tech that brings in incredible profit. A sports franchise is no different. Vince Lombardi said it correctly so many years ago: "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
The GM's ability to admit a mistake and move on is amazing. So many teams refuse to move from a bad personnel move. Vegas obviously does not hand out NMCs like candy.
In Chicago's case, I feel like all their key guys took very friendly deals, and brought back multiple championships for the city. At the end they were getting paid for what they had done, not what they were going to do. I think if you look at teams like Toronto, where you give young guys a lot of money before they do anything, the former situation is much more preferable.
VGK’s business model is a model to be reckoned with. It is pure, it is honest. To a team, winning is the only thing that matters; to a player, his short shelf-life is well acknowledged and respected. There is neither hidden agenda nor bad blood between them. Most importantly, VGK’s management team knows how to treat people right, be it players or Vegas local communities. What VGK did for Vegas after Oct 1st tragedy in 2017 and Jack Eichel’s emotional comments after VGK won Stanley Cup in 2023 said it all.
Pretty complex situation. On the surface (and well below, I guess), those star players are making millions upon millions of dollars for the service they provide. That's the currency they're being paid with.
On the other hand, it's not unheard of for star players to take a discount to keep the team together, or make other sacrifices for the team that go well beyond the contract they have signed.
Then, there is the relationship with the fans, as mentioned.
And another important factor to consider is a utilitarian one (on the team's part): I imagine that if I'm a vet at the end of my prime, and I'm looking to sign one last contract, there are of course a few factors to consider. Do I want to play for a contender? Do I want a big payday? But one thing is probably that after all I've done during my career, I don't want to be traded any more. I just want to play some more hockey, get another run at the cup if I'm lucky, and make some extra cash before retirement. At this point, I probably have kids in school etc. I'd rather sign with a team that'll treat me well, where I can be reasonably sure that as long as I don't mess up too badly, and the team makes the playoffs, I probably get to stay put.
So if a trend starts where most teams get into that Vegas mindset, I wonder if vets would be more willing to sign with more "old-school" teams that will treat them well - perhaps even for a discount.
Regarding signing aging stars for less money: what they often make these days - and the kind of long-term deals they're getting - feel absurd. If GMs don't learn their lesson, I wouldn't be surprised if the league stepped in in some way. It's not as if they weren't talking about it already.
The only thing about this is other teams grow their prospects into stars and they become competitive. Vegas will always be chasing that next player to be able to even be good enough. It looks good now but this type of way of doing business is going to hurt them and it already has. Look at how many guys they lost. These guys are going to go to teams that built up their prospects and make those teams even better while Vegas chases the next flashy name.
Vegas makes it really hard to pick whose jersey to buy
@@michaelwebster5011 Lol. I know what you mean. I have a Fleury, Reeves, Pacioretty, Marchessault jersey. I also have a Stone jersey so I guess he’s the next to leave! 🤣
@@ralphmontemalo6378 Max Pac is a free agent you never know.
I wonder if Shannon could do a video about first overall picks that have/haven’t won a cup and what their overall track record is, for me thinking now that Ekblad has one while McDavid doesn’t, idk could be a cool video
Players switching teams always has been always will! I was a little sad of Stammer leaving Tampa but now I'm very excited about what the Preds will look like this year! VERY EXCITED!! I think more players should do what stammer and marchessault did? Marvel Team Up in Nashville. Your Heart is for your family your balls are for business?
Best scouting team in the NHL. US, Russia, Czechia, Sweden, Finland. They have it covered.
Preds fan. I think it depends on the market. I can tell you that of course Preds fans are excited to add Stamkos and Jonathan Marchessault AND Skjei but i think a lot of non Preds fans and casual NHL fans forget is that Poile had built quite a stockpile of young talent and we still have all our 2025 draft picks (actually 2 1sts, 2 seconds) AND Askarov (which we have not moved and are still developing AND Barry is in NO rush to move for anything he doesn't feel like is a good move for the franchise). I can't fault striking while the iron is hot while Josi and Forsberg are still elite. Vegas has kind of moved a lot of draft capital and young guys.....so short term gain could be long term pain especially if you have high priced guys leaving but MAYBE Vegas feels like they can do this? They got their Stanley Cup so you can't chalk it up as a fail---down the road this could be a big issue for them.
It reminds me of the Leafs in the 90s when they traded Clark for Sundin. Everyone hated it, but 3 years later no one cared.
GMs that are ruthless isn't anything new, it's just rare to see that plan succeed over the long term. Eventually, Vegas will run out of assets to trade away, and will either have to hope they can fill holes in their line-up through free agency alone, or settle down & rebuild for a couple of years. Not being "loyal" to players just shows that a franchise wants to win, and no individual player is more important than the collective group in achieving that goal.
No room for loyalty or sentimentality for some teams or players as evidenced by the lack of concern they all show to the average fan who is all but priced out due to rising ticket prices.
This business approach likely has a short shelf life. There are 32 teams in the NHL and humiliating your star players because they have aged out or because you otherwise have taken a dislike to them…yes it has worked because Vegas is a unique market and it is just seven years old.
But the model will be subject to players will talk.
And the competition for high end players will dictate to some extent how ruthless a management can be without developing a reputation for treating players in a humiliating fashion.
The lockerroom is a place of business, too.
Bettman is doing to hockey, what he did to the NBA. I'm thinking in another decade there'll be new leagues or current ones that gain popularity... They're throwing away too much talent.
I will say that we've started to see this bubble up a few years ago - players like Zdeno Chara leaving the Bruins because he couldn't get guaranteed minutes. If they're willing to take what they can get, they'll get minimal contracts in their older years, that will probably be bargains compared to their contributions.
I seriously hope other leagues can make it. Getting tired of the NHL after 50+ years...
I'm betting it's already been tried and Gary Bettman with his henchmen are going to control international hockey at all costs -they've already flexed that muscle not allowing NHL players to participate in 2022 Olympics.
That was about control, money, not turning over any rights of images or likenesses of NHL players to the Olympics -
not expanding the sport on the global stage .
Looking at their salaries compared to other professional athletes, many of these guys are doing it for the love of the game. Hockey players are not the jocks or popular kids in high school. More like the outcasts
They're not going to suddenly become GQ models like NBA & NFL players when they retire
Jagr has been a great role model of older players keeping hockey going in his part of the world.
I hope to see more of that as a result of putting these guys out to pasture too soon.
@@TheFoolintherainn Right! Frustrating to see the power base at work consolidating and minimizing individual athlete presence.
What amazes me here in Vegas is how accepting people are of the bad behavior by management. To succeed you don’t have to be patently cruel or indifferent to your players. But fans think it is just business as usual. Actually there are good and bad business models. And success will always involve variables not certainty.
Agree with you about Jagr. More power to him. 🏒🥅✨
@@mercywilliams2698 good comment. 👍
yeah as a red wings fan i think the loyalty we had shown players in the mid 2000 early 2010's came back to bite us since we didn't really get anything for the players that we could have to stay relevant.
Shannon why are you one of the only people that actually understands what’s going on here? Love you bud.
This style of team management is common. Its just more exposed when it's top teams doing it. So like anything that works,it will get copied. Same as Florida's team and play style will be mimicked.
Intriguing idea. While I could see some teams starting to lean to this model, the older stars still need to go somewhere for this to work. I for one as a neutral fan am excited to see a bunch of pissed Nashville Preds next season. 🧡💛🧡
The problem with the "trading the Sedins" argument is that Gillis was inept at building a roster. He coasted on Burke and Nonis. So keeping the Sedins really exposed how Gillis was unable to acquire any prospects (with the except of Horvat, who came at the cost of Schneider). A good team should have enough depth to retain a few Hall of Fame players.
Sens fan here. We still miss stone to this day.he wouldve been an amazing captain four our rebuild
I forget that this is still "business" in the end - and the finals/cup is what is wanted for every NHL team - so VGK seemed to have known that from the beginning...
If Gretzky could be traded anyone can be.
Gretzky was only traded because the owner needed money.
@@ryans413 He was still traded twice Oilers trade him and the Kings traded him. And Vegas needed cap space when they moved some of these players. The point is if he could be traded no one is off limits as much as that sucks it's a business.
i havent followed vegas much, but seeing the way (and the time) Yzerman has taken to the Wings rebuild, considering how much youth we've gained and gaining still this coming season, I wonder if the Wings will be similar in scope, albeit a little slow off the get go.
Or as I call it the franchise mode GM strategy
Predators fan here. Can’t stop smiling about the signings. We’re going to be in the spotlight for this season, and we really haven’t been under this much attention since 2017. Maybe a vid on the preds lineup?
It's good to see the Preds Come back to life.
I don't know that the winning is more important than loyalty, if the winning ends, who's coming to your team? Any players that want to settle somewhere aren't looking their way anymore. Vegas has done well with the "win, win, win" method but the fall off for this team is going to be steep.
One thing I’ll add is opposite to what Vegas has done, which is how Pittsburgh kept Malkin a few years ago rather than signing trocheck. They chose loyalty over the future of the franchise, and look how much they’ve accomplished since then.. nothing.
exactly, they haven't been to the playoffs since they re-signed Malkin and Letang
I wonder if this turns out to be successful, and more teams would start to follow the pattern, in which case teams might be able to sign more team-friendly long term contract because they are willing to give players security.
Philly and Vegas fan here. While yes it’s sad to see these players leave. We got a cup for what it’s worth and I don’t think Vegas will be as bad as people think. We still have a solid team, but only time will tell how these deals and other free agency deals will pan out