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Why aren’t ISP’s marketing VPN’s as an additional service? Doesn’t it seem to be a natural compliment to their product? I have learned that using a VPN slows your Internet speed, and the ISP’s are already dealing with the complaints from those who add one. At this point, they are able to blame the additional load of a VPN as the cause and thus recommend trying to resume using their service without the VPN encumbrance.
If BEVs are so great in cost savings, then stop all tax incentives for their purchase, and tax them equally as ICE. And let the market decide, instead of imposing them.
There was no need for taxpayer money for "fuel stations" either. First ICE owners had to get petrol from chemists, and they did, rather than own EV those days.@@AutoExpertJC
Well, they fell off that cliff here in NZ! December 2023, over 4000 sold, January 2024, after the rebate was axed and the announcement that RUC at a price equal to that of diesel or $76 per 1000km that will start on April's fools day just 244 EV sold!
If a rental car company cannot make money on an electric car when the vehicle is an asset to them. What makes you think you will save money as a consumer when a vehicle to you is a liability? Agree 100%, Hertz did everyone a favor by trying electric cars. They are not cheaper, they are not simpler, they are not safer, they are not more environmentally friendly. It is all B.S.
Most domestic solar installations struggle to provide a ROI for numerous reasons, including lower feed in tariffs and the mismatch between the time the electricity is generated and consumed. So, this doesn't really make things any better. If you try to solve this mismatch by going off grid, the additional costs of doing so nullify the benefits and then some.
So you mean every night do a lot of kilometers? Then drive home to charge up during the day when the sun is shining as long as the panels are all working effectively. Uber driver you mean?
@@starpawsy Yes there will always be cases where it makes economic sense, which is why I said most. However, your use pattern is by far the least common.
Regarding a scratch causing the vehicle to be written off, in Australia, it is a statutory write-off, not an economic, so that near new, one scratch only car can never be registered ever again. What's that going to do for insurance premium costs and the environment? Good grief.
Insurance premium costs for ALL car owners will go up. You as an ICE owner can have an accident with an EV and it's your fault. Now your company has to pay for the new battery. It is all about having the road just for the elite. Communism is poverty for all and for ever except for the elite.
I rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz for a weekend to get the EV experience without a salesman humping my leg. The car was good, Hertz service was fine, but even though I could park and charge the car at my house I returned it with a 60% full battery and was pinged with extra charging costs. Why would someone want to rent an EV that they're very unlikely to be able to return with a fully charged battery?
I had the opposite experience from hertz. All good and no charge for bringing it back less than half full. In fact they said anything better than 20% is fine. I’d do it again but I was so impressed I bought one. Not a Tesla or a Pole Thing. Something nicer
@@Peye-pv4cbI was charging my car all night and then needed to drive 30km to return it. I could not return the vehicle fully charged. Compare that with filling up the rental car in a few minutes at a petrol station maybe 2km from the airport.
ICE "full" is different from EV "full" I tank up 30km from the rental depot and squeeze the tank chokka...then drive to the rental depot on cheap fuel...arriving with the tank on "full" as far as the "first click" full of the auto pump that the rental company is concerned when they try to sting me for "a not full tank". EV's can't do that... you will always return it "less than full" and the gauge will show 90%, 91%, 54% etc.... The rental companies should have sufficient chargers to accommodate that...and certainly at the "desk" areas at Airports etc... to ensure their customers also get "full tanks"?
Glad you’re back to cranking out videos, John. The constant doses of common sense, along with good engineering principles, helps protect my brain from the constant doses of stupidity. Plus, the occasional talk of melons helps my Darth function better. It gets bigger.
A lot of the savings in EV ownership come from the cost of fuel, if the rental customer pays for the fuel, I'm not sure how there ever was a business case for rental EV's in the first place.
Because the virtue signalling nut cases pay nearly double the day rate because there is no fuel costs . Have you never done Voodoo economics or are you too young to remember the Keating years of the "Worlds greatest treasurer" .
@@ts757arse it depends upon how much of a virtue signalling twatt the renter is . Remember big users of power get rates around 1/4 of what you pay so if brought back not fully charged they charge you full retail fast charge rates . People pay more for green anything because they are fools and think it makes a difference . When LPG was available and LPG vehicle was more expensive to rent than a petrol or diesel one .
I can only guess you need to bring the EV back fully charged or incur a heavy penalty. Or "Thank you sir, we'll bring your rental EV round to the front for you when it's charged - in about 2 days - there's a big queue and we're down to our last working charger. Can we get you a coffee?"@@ts757arse
@@ts757arse Presumably it works like ICE rentals - you have to top it up to the same level before returning or swallow an additional charge? So now the customer is facing the problem of having to invest a number of hours to recharge or pay a premium price to Hertz, while Hertz has to make a major investment in charging stations at every site and write off the time its capital intensive investment sits idle as it charges. None of it makes sense.
It's like an iPad on wheels...once a newer version is available or the battery degraded, it's time to dump it. If Carbon footprint since production to disposal, as average operational cycle, were added to BEVs, the Greenwashing would stop quick.
The Polestars are actually very beautiful cars. I wonder if people will replace the battery with some of gas engine retrofit. I would love a Polestar with a V8.
People do the same with ICE cars. I get rid of mine every 2-3 years because the tech gets dated and when the mileage creeps up so does the risk of expensive repairs. No difference there. Yeah...I know the cliche about the batteries but Tesla batteries last a LONG time. The only issue I have with them is they're badly built and boring to drive. If they ever sort that out, and we can more easily determine the health of the battery through some measurement system and the batteries can be made smaller and lighter, the sooner adoption will increase.
The Polestar is a beautiful car because you can picture it in your mind however you see fit, since they realistically don’t even exist. Imagine the color, accessories, the performance however you will, your mind is the only place it lives.
@@BCNeil funny you should say that. I had a electric golf buggy that I use around my property. The batteries would always be flat when you'd go to use it, or you'd have to leave it permanently on the charger and so it was always using electric power. Then the batteries would cost a fortune to replace. So I said enough is enough. I tore out all the electricals, put in a piston engine and hydraulic drive and now have a reliable machine that is always ready to go when I need it and it only uses petrol when I actually use it .
I believe that situation in Canada regarding the Hyundai Moronic, due to immense media publicity/scrutiny, the dealership managed to get the battery replacement price down to well under $20,000 CAD. Unbelievable! Having said that, the young guy in question did not go ahead with the “deal”.
Hertz have also been at odds with false reports of stolen cars. A customer returns a rental late, pays up the difference but the car has already been reported as stolen and has not been withdrawing those reports when a customer returns a car late. The same car is rented out to the next customer and the new customer gets pulled over by the police and is arrested for driving a stolen car. This has happened so often that Hertz has a reputation. Steve Lehto has done several videos on Hertz.
If a bridge and an opera house aren't their thing, we can also sell a them a big rock or perhaps a parcel of red dirt. They all come free with the rough end of the pineapple. Lube is extra.
Thanks JC… the voice of reason. As a fellow engineer (pharmaceutical production) I have been convincing friends who have been looking at EVs not to do it!
Interesting, Both Volvo AND Pole Star are owned by the Same Person! Yep! That would be Mr. Li Shufu Wang. He IS a Chinese Communist Party Official. And one of the richest persons in China. Li founded and owns the largest non-governmental car company in China,: Geely Group. Li bought Volvo through his company Geely Group Holdings.
It's a business move. Volvo and Polestar still will work together on the creation of Polestar cars. They share a lot of the same components, materials, personnel and are headquartered very close to each other.
Hang on…did that list of questinns include “Why doesn’t the Polestar 4 have a rear window?” Went to the website to see what it looks like, and yep…no rear window at all. Weird.
John. Your best work. Hard not to laugh. By the way, yesterday…my Lexus F Sport battery shit itself in my driveway. A phone call to Lexus Driver assist ensued…40 minutes later a guy shows up, tests battery and confirms after three years yes it has failed. He has one in the van to replace. I say yes please and produce my plastic to pay the 300. No no sir. Complimentary sir. Lexus warrants the battery for FOUR YEARS. Thanks Lexus your customer service is next level impeccable and thanks John for your initial advice five years ago after I emailed you personally. No Polestar here….here NO Polestar…
One of the side effects of EVs even for those of us that wouldn't go near one is Insurance. Car insurance cost will keep jacking up and up because these over priced pieces of electrified outback dunny will be written off at the drop of a hat irrespective of whether fault the insurance companies will have more write offs to cover so EVERONES insurance goes up.
We rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz in the UK. The car was great, great to drive and decent range, though the UK charging network not so great, but support from Hertz was pretty ad hoc. Like here's the car off you go. No support for the dodgy chargers we found along our travels or even a nice guide book on what to do when you run into charging issues. They also didn't provide a trickle charger for hotel stays that didn't have dedicated EV charging bays. Hertz created a problem of their own making, and also rushed headlong into their EV purchases rather than a gradual measured phase in. They also could have negotiated a cheaper price with a charging company, that would have helped them and the customer. This sudden random decision is not the way to manage their EV transition.
I find it most entertaining going between Auto Expert, Electric Viking and MGUY, we get the full spectrum of opinion on EV's. Apart from being an EV fan boy I'm not too sure what "Viking's" credentials are, but as the two, lets call them, "not EV fan boy" guys are engineers and talk a lot of practical sense, I think for the moment I'll just adopt the "wait and see" position. Though I tend to think "EV, yes, but the world's not ready yet, we've had it good for so long with IC.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Always the case with most opinions. They have their usefulness and in certain situations they are beneficial, major drawbacks in others. I think the biggest problems are market manipulation and autonomy of choice that'll be taken away through policy.
Ummm, might we please receive a replacement re-upload with longer clips of those Pole Stars? Normal Culture thanks you in advance, in 'stralian. Oh, please keep the slo-mo too, if you don't mind.
I checked the insurance costs for a common EV, a Tesla 3. For the quote I used my own details as I normally do when getting an insurance quote…a good driver with no claims for five plus years, rating one, gold level history, secure indoors parking for the vehicle, in a good neighbourhood. I did click not under finance, but everybody would get a car loan to buy one so that might make my quote slightly cheaper. Holy crap, it would cost me around 50% more than what it costs for my 2021 Mustang. Nearly twice as much as the wife’s 2022 twin cab ute! And that’s for a base model 3, starting at $62,000, so only a grand or so more than I paid for my Mustang which, keep in mind, has a substantial extra “performance car” excess added to the comprehensive insurance price. This is the story we’re hearing from around the world; insurance costs are skyrocketing. That’s usually simply because if, after an accident, they even suspect the battery pack is damaged in even a small way, they WILL replace it “just in case”. Nobody wants to take the risk of saying “it’ll be OK”, and then a week or more later it bursts into flames from a single damage cell in the pack that was unknown. This isn’t “EV hatred”…it’s just pointing out the financial facts of ownership. You pay way more for insurance, and come trade in time they’re an unknown quantity. Like it or not, these are facts. Buy an EV if you like, but be aware of ALL the costs involved.
Keep them home without HVAC, beer warm, early nights like everyone else. What TF do you think the petrol pumps run on? Unicorn blood? Hopes and prayers?
If an EVangelist can be believed, the claim is that they can plug their cars into their house, run all their appliances for a month and then drive a circuit of Australia, all on one charge. Apparently, they can also plug the cars into themselves and receive infinite power.
I dunno, I can't pay for an EV in our 'cashless society' until somebody turns the power back on. Until then I'm paying for everything with clamshells and gumleaves. 👍
I heard recently from a medical practitioner that they knew of people who were travelling to Australia, Sydney I believe, just to get an X-ray or CT scan😨. It’s cheaper than paying for it here and far, far quicker to get. They have to be seen by an Aussie practitioner first, walk across the road, get the X-ray or scan, go back across the road and the Aussie guy sends the immediate results to the NZ practitioner. Patient gets back on said aeroplane and flys back. Unbelievable how run down the health system here has become.
If you haven't already seen it, watch the video done by 'Electric Car-Nage' on the 7th February, where the creator has re-subtitled the scene from the movie 'Downfall' with Hitler in his Berlin bunker and his generals telling him that they've converted their panzer tanks to electric. It's absolutely hilarious and one of the funniest things you'll ever see.
dont have that problem with other vehicles as none of them are made of stainless . more costs on top of costs for this and that. where does it end with purchase this and that, oh oops i need this more dollars.@@layersoftheonion8168
@@layersoftheonion8168 I love the fanbois defending this, they say things like, "yeah, well a painted car rusts too!, or, you have to clean a painted car too!". Yeah, they rust if the paint is removed and it is exposed to the elements or if it has been on the road for years. Also I wash my cars about every 3 months and the paint still looks great. I would drive that CT POS through elon's front window if I started seeing rust or patina or whatever the heck you call it a week after I paid that conman over $100k.
I hired a polastar 2 from Hertz at Adelaide airport this week. The drivers side B pillar trim had fallen off when I opened the door. I put it back but commented to the guy at the gate.... his response.... It happens all the time. I've had several of these cars over the last year and I'm my experience the build quality is well below par.
Another great insight John. Maybe explains why one of the global rental car brand have recently been ‘giving away’ EVs at really cheap daily rates. I usually rent a vehicle every week for business, the last five rentals were EVs. Not by choice but were the cheapest on offer for a particular day. Four out of the five were the BMW IX3. I’m not an EV fan but the car was incredible and the return hassle-free as there was no need to return the vehicle 8/8 full of fuel. The fifth rental from the same company was a Tesla. Well, worst car ever. Alarms and warnings. 2 x RACV visits over three days!. Back to subject; The maths doesn’t add up. renting me a vehicle for under $100 a day that costs over $100k to buy and maybe $50 to recharge does not add up. Someone is copping it without lube. Taxpayer?. At this time, I could not justify an EV for my family. Cost, range anxiety, battery life and the possibility the EV may one day mimic a JDAMs bomb. Hard to beat my 2017 Sorrento that has never let us down.
@@dongoldney Depends on how you drive. Of course doing pulls in an EV is a lot more fun than in a slow ICE shitbox so obviously the tires are gonna wear out faster from that.
Thank goodness you put this video out today John. I received an E-mail yesterday stating I could buy a Polestar EV or the Eiffel Tower, either one for 50,000.00 dollars. I'm buying the tower it looks like a much better deal.
IMO, If you want your vehicle repaired properly, for a reasonable price, check the non-dealer workshops. They are far more likely to look after you. EG a quick Google search suggests that the going rate for a replacement battery for an Ioniq 5 is in the region of $13k to $25k here in Straya.
What was Tesla thinking when they discounted their range? When anyone with an ounce of grey matter between their ears researches a prospective vehicle purchase, depreciation is a key factor on whether or not they "pull the trigger". And there is no better way to tank resale values than discounting. Car manufacturers have known this forever. And just have a look at the depreciation on Teslas. It is eyewatering. But worse than that, they've tanked EV resale values across the board. I can understand Polestar's position pertaining to its contractual arrangement with Hertz. But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Whether you love EV's or hate them, Tesla has done a huge disservice to the entire industry.
Not really tanking resale values, much more moving them closer to what they should have been all along. I wouldn't be surprised if there are another few downward adjustments fro Tesla now that BYD are eating their lunch.
@@joecoolioness6399 It's really interesting to watch this all play out. These things have been marketed like phones or games consuls, but they're cars. There is a big difference between them. If you're an early adopter of a new phone or new game consul, you drop your week or so's pay on the counter, have a great time, and later give it to your favourite niece or nephew. Not too many people are in the position to do that, when it comes to five figure purchases. Depreciation losses are real. If you don't feel them in your morning "contemplations", your other half will certainly remind you. This is big coin that we're talking about. Big coin.
I don't understand the obsession of car companies to make EVs big & fast, not to mention EXPENSIVE. Make them to just compete with not beat ICE speeds and acceleration and make them smaller/lighter & range goes up. I wouldn't own a current EV but living in a big city a reliable small hatch EV (even with only say 100 miles of range & just enough power to keep up on highways) would make a perfect second car.
@@rattusfinkus I get that. Has been that way my whole life. They need to build capital before venturing in a new direction. That still leaves me wondering why a company like Tesla that's been at it for 2 decades or the big car companies with huge R&D budgets haven't already started producing small affordable EVs. They're shooting themselves in the foot chasing the lower volume larger profit margin. There are only so many rich suckers.
@@rattusfinkus Maybe but it's bad PR making any mistakes & definitely not a good look to make mistakes on expensive cars. No car buyer looking for affordable transportation will touch a company with a history of not being reliable or practical. That's a pretty large pool of potential customers to write off. Big profits short term is not a good long term business model.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 you gotta make mistakes to make something new, that's called learning. Look at Toyota with their hydrogen cars, that's one BIG mistake
Lets ignore the battery. You keep your EV 3 years . Purchase price $80,000 saving in fuel + $7,000 extra for insurance - $4,000 (Extra for 3 years compared to ICE) depreciation 3 years $48,0000 (Total about 30% more than ICE so say -$14,000 Do you see where this is going, and I presumed you charged for free.
I totally do and I bought an EV anyway. I actually have five electric vehicles plus a petrol car. I don’t care about anything other than my other half having a car she is unlikely to kill and doesn’t need to take to a petrol station. To that end the brief is filled
Such a quick and easy way to see your money disappear in real time 😂 The Saudis will surely thank you for funding their next pointless and barely functional megaproject.
Do you suspect that Chris Bowen is under lobbying pressure to legislate/incentivise EV ownership in Australia to move more product? There seems to be a considerable slowing of EV take up in the rest of the world.
Watch this space. The ACT Greens have mooted a time of use charge for household electricity even though the dirty assholes (specifically the ACT Government) buy at flat rate from Neoen and will do so for at least another ten years. Seems Shane Rattenbury is afraid his ACT will run out of power between 5pm and 9pm specifically because of the subsidised BEVs everyone keeps buying. Should have thought of that before Shane. Federally this could also be an issue as the grid mix loses coal fired base load supply. Bowen and King know this. If they go full blown BEV subsidy and cause electricity demand spikes before the next election, the opposition will have a field day. No. What will happen is the CAFE standards will come in and fuck the car market for five or even ten years. BEV sales will remain as they are as a direct result and Bowen will breath a sigh of relief
Went looking for a hire car today. Lots of cars to choose from. I noticed that companies offering EVs have dropped their prices on these particular vehicles, by quite a lot.
Well we do have a “South Pole Star” (Sigma Octanis) but it’s a dim star and you can’t really see it unless you know where to look. Much like the Polestar 4….😂
evs suit people who can charge at home or work and do short trips, not cross country trips using public chargers, so one wonders why hertz went ev, they dont have to pay for fuel
I rented a Jeep the other week to drive to the Italian ski fields and Switzerland and then back over a week. Filled it up twice. No range anxiety, no waiting to charge and all relatively cheaply (well petrol prices are still taking the piss). I did laugh at the Polestars in the Hertz bays though!
You just have to think about the economics. If i was to buy a tesla it would cost me $62k (just looked it up), plus extras and stamp, plus the cost of paying out my existing car loan, and the interest on both, so it would cost me about $100k over the next 7 years, assuming a bank would give me the cash in the first place. $100k would buy a lot of fuel. At todays prices, at my current rate of consumption, it would take me ~30 years to break even. How long does a tesla battery last? 10-15 years? So in the 37 years since getting the initial loan id have had to replace the car 1 or 2 times so thats an extra 1 to 2 hundred k, i think my kids will still be paying for it when im dead and gone. Then theres the chance it will be destroyed in a fire or wrecked in an accident, and no insurance company I’ve ever dealt with has paid out enough cash to to replace a car so, i think as a way of saving money on personal transport its a bad investment. I’m better off selling my car while its still worth something and buying a couple of horses. I could then breed my own transport and sell their shit for fertiliser.
What would be really interesting and helpful from Hertz is some detail on the costs of their TesPole experiment to see just how much worse the depreciation and increased maintenance costs are compared to their expected normals. For me the big issue with EV's right now is the depreciation fuelled by two big ticket items. State of battery when you buy second hand (very hard to get accurate data on how much an individual cars battery has degraded so far) and the almost certain knowledge that the next generation of EV will have much better tech/range. The latter is fuelled by the car makers themselves who can't help but brag about it in advance. If you can lease an EV and the figures make sense for you, then great, but there must be some financial black hole for someone there as the GMV at the end is always too high to make the monthly rental affordable in the first place. Will the only people offering finance on EV's be the makers themselves? What independent finance company is going to deliberately lose money by overstating the GMV?
Don't know about everybody else but I own a Nissan Leaf since 2018. I would say it is our go to car as we are zipping around town 99% of the time. And I have a charger installed in my garage. So far I have 0 maintenance on it, 1 set of new tires, and 55000 miles. We saved a bundle not going to gas station often not to mention restrained pollution. As matter of fact, our ICE start developing bad batteries and I have to hook trickle chargers to them. The only time I need them is when 2 persons want to drive to somewhere at the same time or going long haul. I probably will get another EV soon. I want a LiFePo driven one or something similar. The only reason I didn't get it sooner is the pace of change EV goes through. It's neck breaking. I want something more stable. Also, problem with Tesla is they are built with Gigapress parts. That is one expensive part to replace if needed. So until all cars on road are self driven and accident rate is 0%, I would take that into consideration.
Its a shame, I rented a Polestar through Hertz and it was a great car to drive, a Friend did the same and also really liked it however, their policy regarding charging makes renting them difficult.
I'd love JC to get out of the studio and do a road trip across Australia in an EV as a real-world comparison to most sugar coated stage managed so called tests. "Should you buy, shortlist, consider, or avoid?". Trick question - the answer is always #4...
'Mad expensive experiment'. Quite right. Many thanks Hertz. However, for anybody with any sort of reasoned thought, the outcome was always obvious, without the kind help of the Hertz boys & gals.
I own a Polestar which I charge at home, and have rented one from Hertz 3 times which need to be charged at public stations. Last time was in Australia, I did 800km over 2 weeks. Frankly it’s a pain to use the public charging networks in Oz, the’re just not mature enough. I get by because I know how to deal with that but my advice to friends who don’t have experience with EV’s is to rent a Hybrid. It’s no wonder Hertz is having 2nd thoughts now but in time we’ll all be driving and renting them, watch this space (sorry doubters).
We bought a lightly used Chevy Bolt for $25,000. Solar system with a 15kwh battery for $20,000. Got on a time of use program and don’t sell power back to the utility. Our previous utility bills were over $200 per month and gas bill over $250 per month. Our bill is now around $200 per month so we save around $250 per month. So our payback for solar is under 7 years. I can double our solar panels for under $2,000 and cut our bill even more. It’s funny that all the petro heads talk about ROI yet they go out and buy all these “trophy” ICE cars and trucks that cost them a fortune in payments, insurance, gas and service. What’s the ROI on that? We charge exclusively at home and use our EV for over 90 percent of our trips. For road trips we have a paid off ICE pickup for camping and hauling our bicycles. People are stupid with their money! If you can’t charge at home or take road trips into the boonies get a hybrid. Hertz screwed the pooch by not thinking things through but that doesn’t apply to the average EV owner who can charge at home. Many EV’s can be had for the price of the average car.
Sounds similar to Fords deal many years ago.. Sell a fleet of cars to a company at a massive discount and then buy them back 1 year later at an agreed price. They then had a scheme where they sold these cars to the general public for a fraction off the new price. Smart folks in the business reckoned that the companies in the scheme had the cars almost free where the used cars sold were considerably overpriced. 20k car, big company pays 15k. 1 year later they buy back the cars very close to the 15k for the pristine ones. Cars offered to the public for 19k.
Someone I know in the UK used to have a Ford retail dealership in a small town. Ford required him to keep a certain level of stock, but often all he could get were unpopular specs and colours. Then he found that his customers could buy cars from the main dealer cheaper than he could get them from Ford. The final straw was Ford insisting that he spend a huge amount of money upgrading his showroom and having dedicated sales staff. He gave up the dealership. This was in the 1980's.
@@cornishhh Yeah they have free car incentives and discounts IF you hit sales targets. When you get a dealer who hangs onto the logbook you know its the free car they are supposed to be using for test drives etc. They should not be selling that one for a set period of time but they want to shift it before it ages and devalues.
12:06 so a scratched battery is a write off? I saw a 60 minutes episode where they walked around a wreckers full of posh foreign sports cars with bent bumpers. Apparently it was cheaper to replace the car than import a new bumper. But this is worse, you can drive a car with a bent bumper, you can’t drive on a dodgy battery.
Hertz finally seeing the light one would think. Given up image of pursuing the "green" option perhaps?! John are you hanging out at "the club" again😉 Your secret is safe with me!
If people make deposits on Polestars and it goes broke I think those people may become unsecured creditors and have to stand in line for a fractional payback. It's a risk.
They're not going bankrupt and this nonsense should stop. Geely is 100 percent behind funding them and they sell a lot more cars than Lotus does which Geely also funds. They have one sedan for sale and have two crossoverish cars coming to market this year. Sales will pick up and they'll be on track to go through a few economic rough spots that many brands go through. Tesla went through the same.
I checked the website for Hyundai and the 2024 Ioniq 5 LR AWD MSRP is $56,999 (but site shows actual price as a little less) and a fully loaded one is $61,501.92. How do they justify a replacement battery costing the same as the sale price of the entire car? Even if the labour was a quarter the $60,000 replacement cost I don't see how the battery itself could cost 3/4 that of the vehicle. The only reason I could see for this high a price for a replacement battery is to basically force the consumer to buy a new vehicle instead of replace the battery. At which point the consumer probably finds another brand after being pissed off by Hyundai.
Tesla, Cadillac and Mustang batteries are less than 20% of the car cost, and many others are less than 30%. The Hyundai battery price is far from typical.
When i was in Istanbul about 50% of the traffic was made up of cars from the 70s and 80s. So i dont think they plan on converting to EV for the next 100 years. Filled with Fiats, Citreons, Dacias and Dogans. These cars are like work horses over there. Population was about 15million in the city alone.
It is likely better for the environment than a new car every 10 years, even a low emissions one. It is one for the maths and science boffins to do the calculations on that, but a starter is the average car produces close to 6 tons of the CO2 to produce then you have disposal to consider. There is then the fuel efficiency of an older car. All that before you go on the calculation of emissions by EVs (they produce it somewhere in the cycle). So forcing that 50% into converting in the short time frame demanded in some countries now would be insane. The forcing will be done with extortionate taxes on old cars or flat out bans in the city. The only concern would be the lack of catalyst exhausts on an old car.
EV cars as they are no good, I don't see ev cars being worth it for at least min 10yrs. The hybird car on the other hand and the amount of money getting invested in all different hybird tech right now is where the market is going and is going to own the market
If buying new you will get what you are given. In June 2023 I went shopping for a RAV4 prime or a Kluger. Dealer said 12-18 month wait if I paid a deposit today. I said which is it 12 months or 18 months? The well dressed imp said it was ok he would happily take someone else’s deposit and could I leave now as there were people standing behind me. Volvo were only slightly better. I put in an order then cancelled that six months later when I began to hear about “amendments to our agreement”. If you want a new car and it is offered as diesel only or hybrid only or whatever, you can’t say “no fuck that I want the petrol model but four wheel drive”. It doesn’t work like that and hasn’t done for 30 years. The market is too small. Chances are, the car you order today is already made and waiting to be shipped. Mine was. These made to order LC300s and Prados are ok but the delivery time means you can order one today and might get the next model instead by the time it arrives. Exhibit A: the previous model Triton with Super Select 2
The worst thing about a rental car is that people who don’t own an EV try one out and say “never again”. This makes the rentals and ownership disappear.
Me thinks that there's emergence of a new business model - put up the sales offer, let you pay (deposit), let you wait for weeks/months and then say, nope, not gonna happen. This is a rising trend I've encountered on Amazon and eBay for about a year now. Would not be surprising if the same goes on elsewhere.
Check when Tesla started taking 50k deposits for the new Roadster they still haven't released, or even given a planned release date in the last couple of years, if you want to see what professional level grifting looks like.
Been following your tunes and a couple others for more than a few years now and its been obvious for the last year or two that EV's simply don't work, on every front except the incredibly unnecessary acceleration front, like as if we need that to pick up the kids from school. The buck has to stop at someone for this incredible push but as I fear, no-one will front up, but a few will head the warnings and give the EV a wide berth, both at the sales yards and in the car parks!!!
I think every manufacturer should be forced to state what the replacement battery cost will be at time of purchase and guarantee that price and availability for say 10 years. At least then you will be informed as to the potential cost before signing on the dotted line.
Aust Goverment is also incentivising Trucking logisitic companies to change to EV trucks at a stagering amount of money, I know one comapny that is and are also spending big to do this. I dont think its going to end well.
EVs will make more sense in 10 years when the batteries and support infrastructure are significantly more mature. For now, there are still too many unknowns, too many gambles, too many legal blind spots, too many knock-on effects on infrastructure that haven't been accounted for, too much unnecessary high-tech wankery, etc. Right now, governments are trying to rush people into EVs when battery, vehicle and fast-charger manufacturers haven't quite worked out the basics yet, like keeping batteries safe from road debris scrapes, bottoming out on speed bumps and other such everyday stuff before hanging the battery pack under the vehicle.
The government is acting the way it does to distract people from the real bin fire. Unmanaged debt, regulatory capture by lobbyists and half of the elected needing a visit to NACC to explain their corrupt ways
The spare batteries are priced like medicines deemed safe, effective and crucial to take before getting ill. I understand filling bags, but here it kills not the patient (which is fine) but the car selling deal of a lifetime.
In the UK the majority (68%) of EV sales are to fleets simply because of their amazing tax-payer funded tax-break (100% tax refundable - so car effectively free) These incentives are about to come under incredible pressure as the UK slides into recession and these can no longer be justified. Imagine being one of the 32% - how financially inept do they look 😂😂
I rented an EV van for a month. Ok to drive but. Once loaded for a days work. I got 50 miles per charge. Public charging around here is sparse and expensive. More expensive per mile than diesel. I gave the thing back after 2 weeks. Too long to recharge. Too expensive to charge. Charge queues. Too short ranged.
Someone should check on the stock trades of these corporate leaders. It would be an announcement that moves a stock price and the someone would makes a make a fortune
The problem for Hertz, & probably all businesses buying by lease, is an EV only makes economic sense if the period of ownership is long enough that the higher purchase price is offset by lower vehicle running costs. And the churn period is too short for that to be realised. At least a business operating a leased EV does get the advantage of lower ‘fuel’ costs. Whereas that benefit goes to the renter in the case of Hertz. A second issue for Hertz is political ideology. About a third of Hertz’s customer base wouldn’t want to be seen in an EV. Which makes it hard to fully utilise vehicle stock for best ROI. Add in a few more customers who would refuse an upgrade to an EV because of a belief it’ll catch fire, perceptions of too hard/too long to charge or range anxiety & it’s now half of one’s customers looking for the exits rather than take the last available car if it’s an EV. The third issue about hiring EVs ATM is a low understanding (or just don’t care) about driving an EV in a way to max battery life. Many users will run the battery well below 20% - permanently reducing it’s range & resale value. There will always be that small cohort who drive a rental car like they stole it. But rental companies churn vehicles before the mechanical damage becomes apparent. But it only takes regular discharges to under 5% & the car’s computer will tell all at resale time. Then of course is general problem of crash repair. EVs like Teslas generally take longer & cost more to repair because of the additional sensors etc. Not helpful when that vehicle needs to be back on the road ASAP to earn its keep. So all things considered, I’m not surprised Hertz is reducing its EV fleet. But many of their reasons for doing so don’t apply to everyday Jill & Joe vehicle owners. They can get the full benefits of EV ownership.
John C! Shouldn't get old and bitter. It didn't surprise me that Hertz would spit the Dummy when Tesla cut prices. I'm sure that Ford and GM isn't charging Hertz list price we'd be charged. Tesla has a different dash controls and anyone hiring a Tesla might just want to try the famous acceleration perhaps in the wrong place. Hertz already admitted that the recharging of EVs was one of there biggest problems! Ford & GM can't make their EV car's affordable or stop there dealers adding charges. Wonder why people are going to Tesla. Shouldn't take Hertz's statement as gospel. Polestar is just copying ICE dealers screwing car buyers! Such is life!
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Pain in the rectum is coming for us all
Wow... riding that polestar must've Hertz, down there.
If BEVs are so great in cost savings, then stop all tax incentives for their purchase, and tax them equally as ICE. And let the market decide, instead of imposing them.
Yeah - agreed. Spart phones were better than flip-phones: no government incentives required.
There was no need for taxpayer money for "fuel stations" either. First ICE owners had to get petrol from chemists, and they did, rather than own EV those days.@@AutoExpertJC
Nah, that'd be racist apparently.😂
Well, they fell off that cliff here in NZ! December 2023, over 4000 sold, January 2024, after the rebate was axed and the announcement that RUC at a price equal to that of diesel or $76 per 1000km that will start on April's fools day just 244 EV sold!
@@marktanska6331 Supercharge stations are also funded. And their prices charge per kWh aren't getting cheaper either.
If a rental car company cannot make money on an electric car when the vehicle is an asset to them. What makes you think you will save money as a consumer when a vehicle to you is a liability? Agree 100%, Hertz did everyone a favor by trying electric cars. They are not cheaper, they are not simpler, they are not safer, they are not more environmentally friendly. It is all B.S.
Most domestic solar installations struggle to provide a ROI for numerous reasons, including lower feed in tariffs and the mismatch between the time the electricity is generated and consumed. So, this doesn't really make things any better. If you try to solve this mismatch by going off grid, the additional costs of doing so nullify the benefits and then some.
So you mean every night do a lot of kilometers? Then drive home to charge up during the day when the sun is shining as long as the panels are all working effectively. Uber driver you mean?
@@starpawsy Yes there will always be cases where it makes economic sense, which is why I said most. However, your use pattern is by far the least common.
@jimmybe64 nah, you drive to your normal 9 to 5 job, and charge it with your solar overnight..,..well that's what the Prime Minister said..
@@lukehulm6819 Maybe we all need to move to Australia though? They can charge their cars overnight with solar panels.. :D
Regarding a scratch causing the vehicle to be written off, in Australia, it is a statutory write-off, not an economic, so that near new, one scratch only car can never be registered ever again. What's that going to do for insurance premium costs and the environment? Good grief.
Australia has economic and statutory write-offs.
@timjohnun4297 Correct. Damage to the battery places it into the statutory category.
@@timjohnun4297when this happens , is it possible to ever bring them back to life on the road?
@@testdummy8294
No. Unless you replace the battery I guess, but you will not since that will cost more than 60k.
Insurance premium costs for ALL car owners will go up. You as an ICE owner can have an accident with an EV and it's your fault. Now your company has to pay for the new battery. It is all about having the road just for the elite. Communism is poverty for all and for ever except for the elite.
I rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz for a weekend to get the EV experience without a salesman humping my leg.
The car was good, Hertz service was fine, but even though I could park and charge the car at my house I returned it with a 60% full battery and was pinged with extra charging costs.
Why would someone want to rent an EV that they're very unlikely to be able to return with a fully charged battery?
I had the opposite experience from
hertz. All good and no charge for bringing it back less than half full. In fact they said anything better than 20% is fine. I’d do it again but I was so impressed I bought one. Not a Tesla or a Pole Thing. Something nicer
If I rent an ice vehicle or truck I return it with a full tank of gas no difference
@@Peye-pv4cbI was charging my car all night and then needed to drive 30km to return it. I could not return the vehicle fully charged.
Compare that with filling up the rental car in a few minutes at a petrol station maybe 2km from the airport.
ICE "full" is different from EV "full"
I tank up 30km from the rental depot and squeeze the tank chokka...then drive to the rental depot on cheap fuel...arriving with the tank on "full" as far as the "first click" full of the auto pump that the rental company is concerned when they try to sting me for "a not full tank".
EV's can't do that...
you will always return it "less than full" and the gauge will show 90%, 91%, 54% etc....
The rental companies should have sufficient chargers to accommodate that...and certainly at the "desk" areas at Airports etc...
to ensure their customers also get "full tanks"?
Same here. I had one in Hobart. Range was terrible.
Glad you’re back to cranking out videos, John. The constant doses of common sense, along with good engineering principles, helps protect my brain from the constant doses of stupidity. Plus, the occasional talk of melons helps my Darth function better. It gets bigger.
Happy Darth, happy life.
Thank you to Hertz for running the mad experiment for us.
ps, the pole girls rule!!
A lot of the savings in EV ownership come from the cost of fuel, if the rental customer pays for the fuel, I'm not sure how there ever was a business case for rental EV's in the first place.
Because the virtue signalling nut cases pay nearly double the day rate because there is no fuel costs .
Have you never done Voodoo economics or are you too young to remember the Keating years of the "Worlds greatest treasurer" .
PR flag waving nonsense
@@ts757arse it depends upon how much of a virtue signalling twatt the renter is .
Remember big users of power get rates around 1/4 of what you pay so if brought back not fully charged they charge you full retail fast charge rates .
People pay more for green anything because they are fools and think it makes a difference .
When LPG was available and LPG vehicle was more expensive to rent than a petrol or diesel one .
I can only guess you need to bring the EV back fully charged or incur a heavy penalty. Or "Thank you sir, we'll bring your rental EV round to the front for you when it's charged - in about 2 days - there's a big queue and we're down to our last working charger. Can we get you a coffee?"@@ts757arse
@@ts757arse Presumably it works like ICE rentals - you have to top it up to the same level before returning or swallow an additional charge? So now the customer is facing the problem of having to invest a number of hours to recharge or pay a premium price to Hertz, while Hertz has to make a major investment in charging stations at every site and write off the time its capital intensive investment sits idle as it charges. None of it makes sense.
It's like an iPad on wheels...once a newer version is available or the battery degraded, it's time to dump it. If Carbon footprint since production to disposal, as average operational cycle, were added to BEVs, the Greenwashing would stop quick.
I'm expecting a complaint from Apple, for associating a Polestar with their product...
The Polestars are actually very beautiful cars. I wonder if people will replace the battery with some of gas engine retrofit. I would love a Polestar with a V8.
People do the same with ICE cars. I get rid of mine every 2-3 years because the tech gets dated and when the mileage creeps up so does the risk of expensive repairs. No difference there. Yeah...I know the cliche about the batteries but Tesla batteries last a LONG time. The only issue I have with them is they're badly built and boring to drive. If they ever sort that out, and we can more easily determine the health of the battery through some measurement system and the batteries can be made smaller and lighter, the sooner adoption will increase.
The Polestar is a beautiful car because you can picture it in your mind however you see fit, since they realistically don’t even exist. Imagine the color, accessories, the performance however you will, your mind is the only place it lives.
@@BCNeil funny you should say that. I had a electric golf buggy that I use around my property.
The batteries would always be flat when you'd go to use it, or you'd have to leave it permanently on the charger and so it was always using electric power. Then the batteries would cost a fortune to replace.
So I said enough is enough.
I tore out all the electricals, put in a piston engine and hydraulic drive and now have a reliable machine that is always ready to go when I need it and it only uses petrol when I actually use it .
I believe that situation in Canada regarding the Hyundai Moronic, due to immense media publicity/scrutiny, the dealership managed to get the battery replacement price down to well under $20,000 CAD. Unbelievable! Having said that, the young guy in question did not go ahead with the “deal”.
Hertz have also been at odds with false reports of stolen cars. A customer returns a rental late, pays up the difference but the car has already been reported as stolen and has not been withdrawing those reports when a customer returns a car late. The same car is rented out to the next customer and the new customer gets pulled over by the police and is arrested for driving a stolen car. This has happened so often that Hertz has a reputation. Steve Lehto has done several videos on Hertz.
They have done that a lot and honest renters end up fighting having a criminal record. Boo Herz!
They're not just canceling orders.This January they also said they were selling 20 thousand ev and putting the proceeds towards ice vehicles.
If there was ever an "Olympics for Sarcasm", my money would be on you, J.C. Another great video. Thank you.
Their frequency of ill considered, woke decisions, really hertz.
Great content.
Stu. Melbourne
Thanks a lot, Stu.
If a bridge and an opera house aren't their thing, we can also sell a them a big rock or perhaps a parcel of red dirt. They all come free with the rough end of the pineapple. Lube is extra.
Thanks JC… the voice of reason. As a fellow engineer (pharmaceutical production) I have been convincing friends who have been looking at EVs not to do it!
Volvo unloaded it's share in Polestar. What's the betting they knew this months ago.
Interesting, Both Volvo AND Pole Star are owned by the Same Person! Yep! That would be Mr. Li Shufu Wang. He IS a Chinese Communist Party Official. And one of the richest persons in China. Li founded and owns the largest non-governmental car company in China,: Geely Group. Li bought Volvo through his company Geely Group Holdings.
It's a business move. Volvo and Polestar still will work together on the creation of Polestar cars. They share a lot of the same components, materials, personnel and are headquartered very close to each other.
Hang on…did that list of questinns include “Why doesn’t the Polestar 4 have a rear window?”
Went to the website to see what it looks like, and yep…no rear window at all. Weird.
Another classic Cadogan production. Thanks again for putting in the effort :)
John. Your best work. Hard not to laugh. By the way, yesterday…my Lexus F Sport battery shit itself in my driveway. A phone call to Lexus Driver assist ensued…40 minutes later a guy shows up, tests
battery and confirms after three years yes it has failed. He has one in the van to replace. I say yes please and produce my plastic to pay the 300. No no sir. Complimentary sir. Lexus warrants the battery for FOUR YEARS. Thanks Lexus your customer service is next level impeccable and thanks John for your initial advice five years ago after I emailed you personally. No Polestar here….here NO Polestar…
Everyone needs a pole star like that .lovely shape and she surely handles the pole well.
One of the side effects of EVs even for those of us that wouldn't go near one is Insurance.
Car insurance cost will keep jacking up and up because these over priced pieces of electrified outback dunny will be written off at the drop of a hat irrespective of whether fault the insurance companies will have more write offs to cover so EVERONES insurance goes up.
Nobody seems to realize that cost of insurance is going up for everyone because Teslas get scrapped out if you sneeze on one.
We rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz in the UK. The car was great, great to drive and decent range, though the UK charging network not so great, but support from Hertz was pretty ad hoc. Like here's the car off you go. No support for the dodgy chargers we found along our travels or even a nice guide book on what to do when you run into charging issues. They also didn't provide a trickle charger for hotel stays that didn't have dedicated EV charging bays. Hertz created a problem of their own making, and also rushed headlong into their EV purchases rather than a gradual measured phase in. They also could have negotiated a cheaper price with a charging company, that would have helped them and the customer. This sudden random decision is not the way to manage their EV transition.
I find it most entertaining going between Auto Expert, Electric Viking and MGUY, we get the full spectrum of opinion on EV's. Apart from being an EV fan boy I'm not too sure what "Viking's" credentials are, but as the two, lets call them, "not EV fan boy" guys are engineers and talk a lot of practical sense, I think for the moment I'll just adopt the "wait and see" position. Though I tend to think "EV, yes, but the world's not ready yet, we've had it good for so long with IC.
Maybe there is a future for EVs, but it’s not now and it’s not lithium power.
@@laceyunderall68 I don't know. It's somewhere between the Viking's ridiculous extremes and the anti-EV crowd's extremes.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Always the case with most opinions.
They have their usefulness and in certain situations they are beneficial, major drawbacks in others.
I think the biggest problems are market manipulation and autonomy of choice that'll be taken away through policy.
Ummm, might we please receive a replacement re-upload with longer clips of those Pole Stars? Normal Culture thanks you in advance, in 'stralian. Oh, please keep the slo-mo too, if you don't mind.
Those ladies are the Only Pole Stars that will ever make money. I feel a Trouser-Teepee coming on.......
I checked the insurance costs for a common EV, a Tesla 3. For the quote I used my own details as I normally do when getting an insurance quote…a good driver with no claims for five plus years, rating one, gold level history, secure indoors parking for the vehicle, in a good neighbourhood. I did click not under finance, but everybody would get a car loan to buy one so that might make my quote slightly cheaper.
Holy crap, it would cost me around 50% more than what it costs for my 2021 Mustang. Nearly twice as much as the wife’s 2022 twin cab ute!
And that’s for a base model 3, starting at $62,000, so only a grand or so more than I paid for my Mustang which, keep in mind, has a substantial extra “performance car” excess added to the comprehensive insurance price.
This is the story we’re hearing from around the world; insurance costs are skyrocketing. That’s usually simply because if, after an accident, they even suspect the battery pack is damaged in even a small way, they WILL replace it “just in case”. Nobody wants to take the risk of saying “it’ll be OK”, and then a week or more later it bursts into flames from a single damage cell in the pack that was unknown.
This isn’t “EV hatred”…it’s just pointing out the financial facts of ownership. You pay way more for insurance, and come trade in time they’re an unknown quantity.
Like it or not, these are facts. Buy an EV if you like, but be aware of ALL the costs involved.
I see in the news parts of Australia are without power and could be for up to a week, what is that going to do to the evangelists?
Keep them home without HVAC, beer warm, early nights like everyone else.
What TF do you think the petrol pumps run on? Unicorn blood? Hopes and prayers?
you sound like a hurt cultist that is waiting for the power to return to charge up@@theairstig9164
If an EVangelist can be believed, the claim is that they can plug their cars into their house, run all their appliances for a month and then drive a circuit of Australia, all on one charge. Apparently, they can also plug the cars into themselves and receive infinite power.
I dunno, I can't pay for an EV in our 'cashless society' until somebody turns the power back on. Until then I'm paying for everything with clamshells and gumleaves. 👍
@@theairstig9164 Generators, not far to get the fuel.
Just saw a thumbnail about the Cybertruck already starting to rust. Thought you'd have fun with that story.
Hey John! Loved your recent work on A Current Affair. 👍👍
17:24 😂 sounds like the NZ health system. See you at Christmas 😅
Nope, Christmas came and went. Now mid February, hopefully. No joke, that's real life 😢
@@avid6186 it's so terrible 😭
Which Christmas are we talking about, the one before or after your death ?
It really IS that bad .
I heard recently from a medical practitioner that they knew of people who were travelling to Australia, Sydney I believe, just to get an X-ray or CT scan😨. It’s cheaper than paying for it here and far, far quicker to get. They have to be seen by an Aussie practitioner first, walk across the road, get the X-ray or scan, go back across the road and the Aussie guy sends the immediate results to the NZ practitioner. Patient gets back on said aeroplane and flys back. Unbelievable how run down the health system here has become.
Sometimes it hertz in a good way
If you haven't already seen it, watch the video done by 'Electric Car-Nage' on the 7th February, where the creator has re-subtitled the scene from the movie 'Downfall' with Hitler in his Berlin bunker and his generals telling him that they've converted their panzer tanks to electric. It's absolutely hilarious and one of the funniest things you'll ever see.
In other news those special space grade stainless steel clad Cybefucks are starting to rust just weeks after delivery in the US.
maybe its all the chemicals used to make the rain that make them rust.
Yeah but you only have to pay a few more $Ks to get it ‘wrapped’, job done. Or just don’t take it out when it’s raining. 😅
dont have that problem with other vehicles as none of them are made of stainless . more costs on top of costs for this and that. where does it end with purchase this and that, oh oops i need this more dollars.@@layersoftheonion8168
@@layersoftheonion8168 I love the fanbois defending this, they say things like, "yeah, well a painted car rusts too!, or, you have to clean a painted car too!". Yeah, they rust if the paint is removed and it is exposed to the elements or if it has been on the road for years. Also I wash my cars about every 3 months and the paint still looks great. I would drive that CT POS through elon's front window if I started seeing rust or patina or whatever the heck you call it a week after I paid that conman over $100k.
I hired a polastar 2 from Hertz at Adelaide airport this week. The drivers side B pillar trim had fallen off when I opened the door. I put it back but commented to the guy at the gate.... his response.... It happens all the time.
I've had several of these cars over the last year and I'm my experience the build quality is well below par.
Polestars are essentially very solid cars. People abuse rental cars. You can't go by that.
God damn, I love the way you talk! 🤣
...said no car company ever.
😂Me too! Very entertaining John!
Another great insight John. Maybe explains why one of the global rental car brand have recently been ‘giving away’ EVs at really cheap daily rates. I usually rent a vehicle every week for business, the last five rentals were EVs. Not by choice but were the cheapest on offer for a particular day. Four out of the five were the BMW IX3. I’m not an EV fan but the car was incredible and the return hassle-free as there was no need to return the vehicle 8/8 full of fuel. The fifth rental from the same company was a Tesla. Well, worst car ever. Alarms and warnings. 2 x RACV visits over three days!. Back to subject; The maths doesn’t add up. renting me a vehicle for under $100 a day that costs over $100k to buy and maybe $50 to recharge does not add up. Someone is copping it without lube. Taxpayer?. At this time, I could not justify an EV for my family. Cost, range anxiety, battery life and the possibility the EV may one day mimic a JDAMs bomb. Hard to beat my 2017 Sorrento that has never let us down.
Totally agree with your take on the whole warped EV industry - btw where did you fine that pole dancing clip - asking for a friend.
Looking forward to see what the resale value is on EV,s is when 5 years old.😮
The information on that trend is available from America right now, they've been sold there for years.
@@gazzafloss
So what is it?😊
You just hit nail on head😅😅😅, tyres are an issue too, 11/12000 klms if you lucky
@@dongoldney Depends on how you drive. Of course doing pulls in an EV is a lot more fun than in a slow ICE shitbox so obviously the tires are gonna wear out faster from that.
If you had read the print, you would have seen that Polestar promised a reach around to the first 100 customers.
Thank goodness you put this video out today John. I received an E-mail yesterday stating I could buy a Polestar EV or the Eiffel Tower, either one for 50,000.00 dollars. I'm buying the tower it looks like a much better deal.
IMO, If you want your vehicle repaired properly, for a reasonable price, check the non-dealer workshops. They are far more likely to look after you. EG a quick Google search suggests that the going rate for a replacement battery for an Ioniq 5 is in the region of $13k to $25k here in Straya.
Jesus JC, the polestar always gets me in to trouble with the missus. Especially the rotating ones. Can you please let Tiffany know this. Please.
Many ways . The EV Drownings Shall Continue !
It would be nice if the cost data from the Hertz EV ownership was made available. It would be an interesting read. Cheers John
What was Tesla thinking when they discounted their range? When anyone with an ounce of grey matter between their ears researches a prospective vehicle purchase, depreciation is a key factor on whether or not they "pull the trigger". And there is no better way to tank resale values than discounting. Car manufacturers have known this forever.
And just have a look at the depreciation on Teslas. It is eyewatering. But worse than that, they've tanked EV resale values across the board. I can understand Polestar's position pertaining to its contractual arrangement with Hertz. But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Whether you love EV's or hate them, Tesla has done a huge disservice to the entire industry.
Not really tanking resale values, much more moving them closer to what they should have been all along. I wouldn't be surprised if there are another few downward adjustments fro Tesla now that BYD are eating their lunch.
This is what happens when a hyped product and hyped fanboi/early adopter pricing stops working. Things get real.
@@joecoolioness6399 It's really interesting to watch this all play out.
These things have been marketed like phones or games consuls, but they're cars.
There is a big difference between them.
If you're an early adopter of a new phone or new game consul, you drop your week or so's pay on the counter, have a great time, and later give it to your favourite niece or nephew.
Not too many people are in the position to do that, when it comes to five figure purchases.
Depreciation losses are real. If you don't feel them in your morning "contemplations", your other half will certainly remind you.
This is big coin that we're talking about. Big coin.
I don't understand the obsession of car companies to make EVs big & fast, not to mention EXPENSIVE. Make them to just compete with not beat ICE speeds and acceleration and make them smaller/lighter & range goes up.
I wouldn't own a current EV but living in a big city a reliable small hatch EV (even with only say 100 miles of range & just enough power to keep up on highways) would make a perfect second car.
All automakers start at the high end low volume part of the market to learn the ropes and to learn how to make them cheaper.
@@rattusfinkus I get that. Has been that way my whole life. They need to build capital before venturing in a new direction. That still leaves me wondering why a company like Tesla that's been at it for 2 decades or the big car companies with huge R&D budgets haven't already started producing small affordable EVs. They're shooting themselves in the foot chasing the lower volume larger profit margin. There are only so many rich suckers.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 It makes a lot of sense to experiment on the low volume stuff because making mistakes on large volume stuff is expensive.
@@rattusfinkus Maybe but it's bad PR making any mistakes & definitely not a good look to make mistakes on expensive cars. No car buyer looking for affordable transportation will touch a company with a history of not being reliable or practical. That's a pretty large pool of potential customers to write off. Big profits short term is not a good long term business model.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 you gotta make mistakes to make something new, that's called learning. Look at Toyota with their hydrogen cars, that's one BIG mistake
Lets ignore the battery. You keep your EV 3 years . Purchase price $80,000 saving in fuel + $7,000 extra for insurance - $4,000 (Extra for 3 years compared to ICE) depreciation 3 years $48,0000 (Total about 30% more than ICE so say -$14,000 Do you see where this is going, and I presumed you charged for free.
I totally do and I bought an EV anyway. I actually have five electric vehicles plus a petrol car. I don’t care about anything other than my other half having a car she is unlikely to kill and doesn’t need to take to a petrol station. To that end the brief is filled
I filled my car with diesel last night. Such a quick and straight forward process. Why on earth would anyone want to fuel their car a different way?
Such a quick and easy way to see your money disappear in real time 😂 The Saudis will surely thank you for funding their next pointless and barely functional megaproject.
The fact to fully fuel a car would cost over 100 south pacific pesos. Surely that's depressing enough!
Do you suspect that Chris Bowen is under lobbying pressure to legislate/incentivise EV ownership in Australia to move more product? There seems to be a considerable slowing of EV take up in the rest of the world.
Watch this space. The ACT Greens have mooted a time of use charge for household electricity even though the dirty assholes (specifically the ACT Government) buy at flat rate from Neoen and will do so for at least another ten years.
Seems Shane Rattenbury is afraid his ACT will run out of power between 5pm and 9pm specifically because of the subsidised BEVs everyone keeps buying. Should have thought of that before Shane.
Federally this could also be an issue as the grid mix loses coal fired base load supply. Bowen and King know this. If they go full blown BEV subsidy and cause electricity demand spikes before the next election, the opposition will have a field day.
No. What will happen is the CAFE standards will come in and fuck the car market for five or even ten years. BEV sales will remain as they are as a direct result and Bowen will breath a sigh of relief
Went looking for a hire car today. Lots of cars to choose from. I noticed that companies offering EVs have dropped their prices on these particular vehicles, by quite a lot.
In the United States pole star means a really good stripper. We call what they mean the north star. Which, incidentally, you don't have in Australia
Well we do have a “South Pole Star” (Sigma Octanis) but it’s a dim star and you can’t really see it unless you know where to look.
Much like the Polestar 4….😂
We don't get the North Star in Australia, bu
evs suit people who can charge at home or work and do short trips, not cross country trips using public chargers, so one wonders why hertz went ev, they dont have to pay for fuel
I rented a Jeep the other week to drive to the Italian ski fields and Switzerland and then back over a week. Filled it up twice. No range anxiety, no waiting to charge and all relatively cheaply (well petrol prices are still taking the piss). I did laugh at the Polestars in the Hertz bays though!
You just have to think about the economics. If i was to buy a tesla it would cost me $62k (just looked it up), plus extras and stamp, plus the cost of paying out my existing car loan, and the interest on both, so it would cost me about $100k over the next 7 years, assuming a bank would give me the cash in the first place.
$100k would buy a lot of fuel. At todays prices, at my current rate of consumption, it would take me ~30 years to break even. How long does a tesla battery last? 10-15 years? So in the 37 years since getting the initial loan id have had to replace the car 1 or 2 times so thats an extra 1 to 2 hundred k, i think my kids will still be paying for it when im dead and gone.
Then theres the chance it will be destroyed in a fire or wrecked in an accident, and no insurance company I’ve ever dealt with has paid out enough cash to to replace a car so, i think as a way of saving money on personal transport its a bad investment.
I’m better off selling my car while its still worth something and buying a couple of horses. I could then breed my own transport and sell their shit for fertiliser.
What would be really interesting and helpful from Hertz is some detail on the costs of their TesPole experiment to see just how much worse the depreciation and increased maintenance costs are compared to their expected normals.
For me the big issue with EV's right now is the depreciation fuelled by two big ticket items. State of battery when you buy second hand (very hard to get accurate data on how much an individual cars battery has degraded so far) and the almost certain knowledge that the next generation of EV will have much better tech/range. The latter is fuelled by the car makers themselves who can't help but brag about it in advance.
If you can lease an EV and the figures make sense for you, then great, but there must be some financial black hole for someone there as the GMV at the end is always too high to make the monthly rental affordable in the first place. Will the only people offering finance on EV's be the makers themselves? What independent finance company is going to deliberately lose money by overstating the GMV?
1:42
Those countermeasures are well balanced...
Great taste in music sir
Don't know about everybody else but I own a Nissan Leaf since 2018. I would say it is our go to car as we are zipping around town 99% of the time. And I have a charger installed in my garage. So far I have 0 maintenance on it, 1 set of new tires, and 55000 miles. We saved a bundle not going to gas station often not to mention restrained pollution. As matter of fact, our ICE start developing bad batteries and I have to hook trickle chargers to them. The only time I need them is when 2 persons want to drive to somewhere at the same time or going long haul. I probably will get another EV soon. I want a LiFePo driven one or something similar. The only reason I didn't get it sooner is the pace of change EV goes through. It's neck breaking. I want something more stable.
Also, problem with Tesla is they are built with Gigapress parts. That is one expensive part to replace if needed. So until all cars on road are self driven and accident rate is 0%, I would take that into consideration.
Great taste in music John, the shirt says it all really :)
I wash it all away, dude. Even if I'm feeling a little bit off today...
I was scrolling the comments to find one about his shirt. Rock on John, nailing those lyrics too!
Its a shame, I rented a Polestar through Hertz and it was a great car to drive, a Friend did the same and also really liked it however, their policy regarding charging makes renting them difficult.
I'd love JC to get out of the studio and do a road trip across Australia in an EV as a real-world comparison to most sugar coated stage managed so called tests. "Should you buy, shortlist, consider, or avoid?". Trick question - the answer is always #4...
'Mad expensive experiment'.
Quite right. Many thanks Hertz.
However, for anybody with any sort of reasoned thought, the outcome was always obvious, without the kind help of the Hertz boys & gals.
I own a Polestar which I charge at home, and have rented one from Hertz 3 times which need to be charged at public stations. Last time was in Australia, I did 800km over 2 weeks. Frankly it’s a pain to use the public charging networks in Oz, the’re just not mature enough. I get by because I know how to deal with that but my advice to friends who don’t have experience with EV’s is to rent a Hybrid. It’s no wonder Hertz is having 2nd thoughts now but in time we’ll all be driving and renting them, watch this space (sorry doubters).
We bought a lightly used Chevy Bolt for $25,000. Solar system with a 15kwh battery for $20,000.
Got on a time of use program and don’t sell power back to the utility.
Our previous utility bills were over $200 per month and gas bill over $250 per month. Our bill is now around $200 per month so we save around $250 per month.
So our payback for solar is under 7 years. I can double our solar panels for under $2,000 and cut our bill even more.
It’s funny that all the petro heads talk about ROI yet they go out and buy all these “trophy” ICE cars and trucks that cost them a fortune in payments, insurance, gas and service. What’s the ROI on that?
We charge exclusively at home and use our EV for over 90 percent of our trips.
For road trips we have a paid off ICE pickup for camping and hauling our bicycles.
People are stupid with their money!
If you can’t charge at home or take road trips into the boonies get a hybrid.
Hertz screwed the pooch by not thinking things through but that doesn’t apply to the average EV owner who can charge at home.
Many EV’s can be had for the price of the average car.
Sounds similar to Fords deal many years ago.. Sell a fleet of cars to a company at a massive discount and then buy them back 1 year later at an agreed price. They then had a scheme where they sold these cars to the general public for a fraction off the new price. Smart folks in the business reckoned that the companies in the scheme had the cars almost free where the used cars sold were considerably overpriced. 20k car, big company pays 15k. 1 year later they buy back the cars very close to the 15k for the pristine ones. Cars offered to the public for 19k.
Someone I know in the UK used to have a Ford retail dealership in a small town. Ford required him to keep a certain level of stock, but often all he could get were unpopular specs and colours. Then he found that his customers could buy cars from the main dealer cheaper than he could get them from Ford. The final straw was Ford insisting that he spend a huge amount of money upgrading his showroom and having dedicated sales staff. He gave up the dealership. This was in the 1980's.
@@cornishhh Yeah they have free car incentives and discounts IF you hit sales targets. When you get a dealer who hangs onto the logbook you know its the free car they are supposed to be using for test drives etc. They should not be selling that one for a set period of time but they want to shift it before it ages and devalues.
Hiding and lying about the facts of cost of ownership related to Ev's being a problem, is like denying a pregnancy.
All you have to do is wait.
Yeah it's so damn expensive, the 0€ charging bills i'm getting are truly driving me to bankruptcy 🤣🤣
Deluded bozo 🤡
BRO i love your taste in music you chose to promote..
How did Hertz pay for insurance? How much did they pay?
12:06 so a scratched battery is a write off? I saw a 60 minutes episode where they walked around a wreckers full of posh foreign sports cars with bent bumpers. Apparently it was cheaper to replace the car than import a new bumper.
But this is worse, you can drive a car with a bent bumper, you can’t drive on a dodgy battery.
The Hyundai battery is at least double the cost of many others. Tesla Model S battery replacement is only 13% of the cost of a new car.
Hi John.Have you heard about the 900 tonnes of lituium batteries on fire st a French recyclers
Yup
Hertz finally seeing the light one would think. Given up image of pursuing the "green" option perhaps?!
John are you hanging out at "the club" again😉 Your secret is safe with me!
I would worry more that Polestar will go bankrupt. There will be nowhere to get even minor repairs done. Or replace parts
If people make deposits on Polestars and it goes broke I think those people may become unsecured creditors and have to stand in line for a fractional payback. It's a risk.
I have a 4-yr lease... yikes
They're not going bankrupt and this nonsense should stop. Geely is 100 percent behind funding them and they sell a lot more cars than Lotus does which Geely also funds. They have one sedan for sale and have two crossoverish cars coming to market this year. Sales will pick up and they'll be on track to go through a few economic rough spots that many brands go through. Tesla went through the same.
I checked the website for Hyundai and the 2024 Ioniq 5 LR AWD MSRP is $56,999 (but site shows actual price as a little less) and a fully loaded one is $61,501.92. How do they justify a replacement battery costing the same as the sale price of the entire car? Even if the labour was a quarter the $60,000 replacement cost I don't see how the battery itself could cost 3/4 that of the vehicle. The only reason I could see for this high a price for a replacement battery is to basically force the consumer to buy a new vehicle instead of replace the battery. At which point the consumer probably finds another brand after being pissed off by Hyundai.
Tesla, Cadillac and Mustang batteries are less than 20% of the car cost, and many others are less than 30%. The Hyundai battery price is far from typical.
Wont be long until all car makers release newer ICE with hydrogen
Theres a go John. Your vid has been topped and tailed with Polestar ads. Neat.
When i was in Istanbul about 50% of the traffic was made up of cars from the 70s and 80s. So i dont think they plan on converting to EV for the next 100 years. Filled with Fiats, Citreons, Dacias and Dogans. These cars are like work horses over there. Population was about 15million in the city alone.
It is likely better for the environment than a new car every 10 years, even a low emissions one. It is one for the maths and science boffins to do the calculations on that, but a starter is the average car produces close to 6 tons of the CO2 to produce then you have disposal to consider. There is then the fuel efficiency of an older car. All that before you go on the calculation of emissions by EVs (they produce it somewhere in the cycle). So forcing that 50% into converting in the short time frame demanded in some countries now would be insane. The forcing will be done with extortionate taxes on old cars or flat out bans in the city. The only concern would be the lack of catalyst exhausts on an old car.
EV cars as they are no good, I don't see ev cars being worth it for at least min 10yrs. The hybird car on the other hand and the amount of money getting invested in all different hybird tech right now is where the market is going and is going to own the market
If buying new you will get what you are given. In June 2023 I went shopping for a RAV4 prime or a Kluger. Dealer said 12-18 month wait if I paid a deposit today.
I said which is it 12 months or 18 months? The well dressed imp said it was ok he would happily take someone else’s deposit and could I leave now as there were people standing behind me. Volvo were only slightly better. I put in an order then cancelled that six months later when I began to hear about “amendments to our agreement”.
If you want a new car and it is offered as diesel only or hybrid only or whatever, you can’t say “no fuck that I want the petrol model but four wheel drive”.
It doesn’t work like that and hasn’t done for 30 years. The market is too small. Chances are, the car you order today is already made and waiting to be shipped. Mine was.
These made to order LC300s and Prados are ok but the delivery time means you can order one today and might get the next model instead by the time it arrives.
Exhibit A: the previous model Triton with Super Select 2
Nice insights and humor as usual, thanks dude
John I hope you do keep making YT videos till you're 100
The worst thing about a rental car is that people who don’t own an EV try one out and say “never again”. This makes the rentals and ownership disappear.
Wow! You might be able to drive a 2023 model in 2025 IF you hand over the cash now. ( no guarantee of delivery. )
Me thinks that there's emergence of a new business model - put up the sales offer, let you pay (deposit), let you wait for weeks/months and then say, nope, not gonna happen. This is a rising trend I've encountered on Amazon and eBay for about a year now. Would not be surprising if the same goes on elsewhere.
Check when Tesla started taking 50k deposits for the new Roadster they still haven't released, or even given a planned release date in the last couple of years, if you want to see what professional level grifting looks like.
Been following your tunes and a couple others for more than a few years now and its been obvious for the last year or two that EV's simply don't work, on every front except the incredibly unnecessary acceleration front, like as if we need that to pick up the kids from school. The buck has to stop at someone for this incredible push but as I fear, no-one will front up, but a few will head the warnings and give the EV a wide berth, both at the sales yards and in the car parks!!!
I think every manufacturer should be forced to state what the replacement battery cost will be at time of purchase and guarantee that price and availability for say 10 years. At least then you will be informed as to the potential cost before signing on the dotted line.
Here is a guide. Nothing like the Hyundai replacement cost.
Ref: Visualized: What is the Cost of Electric Vehicle Batteries?
Aust Goverment is also incentivising Trucking logisitic companies to change to EV trucks at a stagering amount of money, I know one comapny that is and are also spending big to do this. I dont think its going to end well.
So even if you buy 65,000 of them these EV’s still cost over USD47k each. I’m sure they can get petrol sedans for a lot less than that.
Modern Volvo and reliable commercial fleet (passenger or cargo) are antonyms.
Lot of people saying those new cyber urinals trucks are rusting 😅
Excellent video, John!
You wake up and realized you bought a Pole f*** Star Man that Hertz! Keep it going John!
EVs will make more sense in 10 years when the batteries and support infrastructure are significantly more mature. For now, there are still too many unknowns, too many gambles, too many legal blind spots, too many knock-on effects on infrastructure that haven't been accounted for, too much unnecessary high-tech wankery, etc.
Right now, governments are trying to rush people into EVs when battery, vehicle and fast-charger manufacturers haven't quite worked out the basics yet, like keeping batteries safe from road debris scrapes, bottoming out on speed bumps and other such everyday stuff before hanging the battery pack under the vehicle.
The government is acting the way it does to distract people from the real bin fire. Unmanaged debt, regulatory capture by lobbyists and half of the elected needing a visit to NACC to explain their corrupt ways
Its said that if you say "I dont believe in EV's" an electric fairy dies.
The spare batteries are priced like medicines deemed safe, effective and crucial to take before getting ill. I understand filling bags, but here it kills not the patient (which is fine) but the car selling deal of a lifetime.
Sounds like Hertz have lowered themselves to the elusive "brown note".
Stu. Melbourne
In the UK the majority (68%) of EV sales are to fleets simply because of their amazing tax-payer funded tax-break (100% tax refundable - so car effectively free) These incentives are about to come under incredible pressure as the UK slides into recession and these can no longer be justified. Imagine being one of the 32% - how financially inept do they look 😂😂
What about novated leases? That changes the economic equation quite substantially right?
I rented an EV van for a month.
Ok to drive but.
Once loaded for a days work. I got 50 miles per charge.
Public charging around here is sparse and expensive. More expensive per mile than diesel.
I gave the thing back after 2 weeks.
Too long to recharge.
Too expensive to charge.
Charge queues.
Too short ranged.
Someone should check on the stock trades of these corporate leaders.
It would be an announcement that moves a stock price and the someone would makes a make a fortune
The problem for Hertz, & probably all businesses buying by lease, is an EV only makes economic sense if the period of ownership is long enough that the higher purchase price is offset by lower vehicle running costs. And the churn period is too short for that to be realised.
At least a business operating a leased EV does get the advantage of lower ‘fuel’ costs. Whereas that benefit goes to the renter in the case of Hertz.
A second issue for Hertz is political ideology. About a third of Hertz’s customer base wouldn’t want to be seen in an EV. Which makes it hard to fully utilise vehicle stock for best ROI. Add in a few more customers who would refuse an upgrade to an EV because of a belief it’ll catch fire, perceptions of too hard/too long to charge or range anxiety & it’s now half of one’s customers looking for the exits rather than take the last available car if it’s an EV.
The third issue about hiring EVs ATM is a low understanding (or just don’t care) about driving an EV in a way to max battery life. Many users will run the battery well below 20% - permanently reducing it’s range & resale value. There will always be that small cohort who drive a rental car like they stole it. But rental companies churn vehicles before the mechanical damage becomes apparent. But it only takes regular discharges to under 5% & the car’s computer will tell all at resale time.
Then of course is general problem of crash repair. EVs like Teslas generally take longer & cost more to repair because of the additional sensors etc. Not helpful when that vehicle needs to be back on the road ASAP to earn its keep.
So all things considered, I’m not surprised Hertz is reducing its EV fleet. But many of their reasons for doing so don’t apply to everyday Jill & Joe vehicle owners. They can get the full benefits of EV ownership.
John C! Shouldn't get old and bitter. It didn't surprise me that Hertz would spit the Dummy when Tesla cut prices. I'm sure that Ford and GM isn't charging Hertz list price we'd be charged.
Tesla has a different dash controls and anyone hiring a Tesla might just want to try the famous acceleration perhaps in the wrong place. Hertz already admitted that the recharging of EVs was one of there biggest problems!
Ford & GM can't make their EV car's affordable or stop there dealers adding charges. Wonder why people are going to Tesla.
Shouldn't take Hertz's statement as gospel.
Polestar is just copying ICE dealers screwing car buyers! Such is life!