I think Trevor Bauer made the exact same slider grip changes as he talked about in an interview years ago. I also see Ohtani using the same two seam slider grip as well. Great video!
I completely agree with all you’re saying. In high school I filmed all of my bullpens i threw and focused on beings able to change the spin mid flight and the effects of different grips on each pitch and theorized that 2 seam grips on sliders when thrown from a flat/sidearmed angle create more horizontal movement than a slider thrown with gyro spin on a spin axis facing up instead of facing the catcher.
Good catch. Patino is a 2s SL orientation guy too. I speculate a lot of the sweeper shapes are created by that specific ball orientation. And Patino is kind of in that category, depending on where the vertical movement threshold is.
Darvish is an absolute mess on the pitch classification side of things. Legitimately the one pitcher in baseball that it's near impossible to know what he's throwing on every pitch, especially between his CT and SL, and even splitter, which sometimes cuts. You really need a visual on his hand every pitch to have better accuracy with this. My understanding that he throws a cutter around 2" of vrt and 5" of hrz (which has a little more cut and less vertical than a traditional "cutter") and then a slider at -2" vrt and 16" hrz (that's closer than Treinen to the slurve territory you were talking about). But the problem is that everything in between is in play, he throws some cutters with like 10" vertical and minimal horizontal, which is a traditional cutter shape. And then he throws some sliders that have more vertical and less horizontal which kind of look like his cutter. Velo also a factor here too. PitchingNinja had a great interview with him where he talks about how his thumb placement can affect the movement. Seems like he just feels his way to different shapes based on how he wants to attack a hitter: ruclips.net/video/850Ju8-JxZU/видео.html
I would rather classify treinen's new slider as as slurve than a sweeping slider as it has huge horizontal break along ton of vertical drop. Lance mccullers slider has more of a sweeping motion as it has tone of horizontal movement without droping much .
I think I disagree here. Short-form movement shows Treinen's slider as -.7" vertical movement and 13" horizontal. This is pretty squarely in the sweeper category. He throws a variation to left-handed hitters that has more negative vertical break, more drop, but the aggregate of the pitch is very similar to McCullers (who has 4.6" v and 14" h). The Sonny Gray area, where he's getting -6" vertical is where I think you'd be able to properly call the pitch a slurve.
@@LanceBroz sure but it doesn't need to be measured or understood the way it is now by the "universe". only the pitchers who put the time in to understand 1st hand what this seam orientation is doing. but my initial comment was meant to show this isn't new information and pitchers have known this in the pitching universe since the dawn of baseball
@@awedee.0 Whatever you claim your comments were “meant to show,” all they actually showed is that your opinions should not be taken seriously, and would be best kept to yourself.
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I think Trevor Bauer made the exact same slider grip changes as he talked about in an interview years ago. I also see Ohtani using the same two seam slider grip as well. Great video!
I completely agree with all you’re saying. In high school I filmed all of my bullpens i threw and focused on beings able to change the spin mid flight and the effects of different grips on each pitch and theorized that 2 seam grips on sliders when thrown from a flat/sidearmed angle create more horizontal movement than a slider thrown with gyro spin on a spin axis facing up instead of facing the catcher.
I hope you keep making videos you might have the best baseball content I’ve ever seen
This makes the Luis Patiño video even more interesting.
Good catch. Patino is a 2s SL orientation guy too. I speculate a lot of the sweeper shapes are created by that specific ball orientation. And Patino is kind of in that category, depending on where the vertical movement threshold is.
Bro, this is a great video!
Great video!!
How would you classify yu darvish's new gyro cutter -as a cutter or slider ?
Darvish is an absolute mess on the pitch classification side of things. Legitimately the one pitcher in baseball that it's near impossible to know what he's throwing on every pitch, especially between his CT and SL, and even splitter, which sometimes cuts. You really need a visual on his hand every pitch to have better accuracy with this.
My understanding that he throws a cutter around 2" of vrt and 5" of hrz (which has a little more cut and less vertical than a traditional "cutter") and then a slider at -2" vrt and 16" hrz (that's closer than Treinen to the slurve territory you were talking about). But the problem is that everything in between is in play, he throws some cutters with like 10" vertical and minimal horizontal, which is a traditional cutter shape. And then he throws some sliders that have more vertical and less horizontal which kind of look like his cutter. Velo also a factor here too.
PitchingNinja had a great interview with him where he talks about how his thumb placement can affect the movement. Seems like he just feels his way to different shapes based on how he wants to attack a hitter: ruclips.net/video/850Ju8-JxZU/видео.html
Awesome video
Bro you should upload more content .
Yes!
I would rather classify treinen's new slider as as slurve than a sweeping slider as it has huge horizontal break along ton of vertical drop. Lance mccullers slider has more of a sweeping motion as it has tone of horizontal movement without droping much .
I think I disagree here. Short-form movement shows Treinen's slider as -.7" vertical movement and 13" horizontal. This is pretty squarely in the sweeper category. He throws a variation to left-handed hitters that has more negative vertical break, more drop, but the aggregate of the pitch is very similar to McCullers (who has 4.6" v and 14" h). The Sonny Gray area, where he's getting -6" vertical is where I think you'd be able to properly call the pitch a slurve.
Super helpful very sigma
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moving the seams to get more or less movement has always a part of a pitchers experimentation towards excellence. these buzzword nerds are stupid
Sure but it was never measured or understood the way it is now universally. That’s the difference
@@LanceBroz sure but it doesn't need to be measured or understood the way it is now by the "universe". only the pitchers who put the time in to understand 1st hand what this seam orientation is doing. but my initial comment was meant to show this isn't new information and pitchers have known this in the pitching universe since the dawn of baseball
@@awedee.0 Whatever you claim your comments were “meant to show,” all they actually showed is that your opinions should not be taken seriously, and would be best kept to yourself.
@@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar take your own advice buddy