AR15 Barrel Seating Depth Problem & Fix - Grey Ghost Precision

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  • Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 132

  • @SchooloftheAmericanRifle
    @SchooloftheAmericanRifle  Год назад +36

    For those who dont see the reason to notch the shims, please look at how an ar barrel extension seats in a AR upper receiver. The index pin in an AR barrel extension has to seat into a notch in the upper receiver. When you put a shim or shims in between those two parts you have to remove a piece of the shim to clear the index pin.
    This "fix" isnt how you normally use AR barrel shims. Normally the shims go between the barrel nut and barrel extension to time a barrel nut.
    In this case a shim was needed to push the barrel forward, this it has to be clipped to clear the index pin.

    • @thesixpkamerican1
      @thesixpkamerican1 Год назад

      what is the upper.. looks like a Steel upper.. or some kind of billet?

    • @armaanthadhani293
      @armaanthadhani293 Год назад

      @@thesixpkamerican1 It's a billet aluminum upper, I have the same one

    • @jasonkrice
      @jasonkrice Год назад

      Where can I get the shims? I'm having the same problem with a GGP build...

    • @MT_Pant_Suit
      @MT_Pant_Suit 9 месяцев назад

      GGP should make this right but obviously they put out of spec parts out there knowing they were grossly out of spec. I've seen several people burned by this BS.

  • @KelzCasa
    @KelzCasa Год назад +11

    The more I watch your videos, the more I’m scared to death that any one of my AR’s could have a problem, but at the same time, it’s comforting to know what kinds of potential issues to look for.
    Still the greatest rifle channel out here though! 🤘🏽

  • @Incapacitator99
    @Incapacitator99 Год назад +12

    The difference between an armorer and a gunsmith. Well done.

  • @Jynaim
    @Jynaim 4 месяца назад +2

    I just checked out my own GGP upper... Lo and behold I have the same issue. Thank you for the info and the knowledge to make the fix!

  • @toynazi
    @toynazi Год назад +29

    That upper would be a deal breaker for me. I'd be promptly sending it back to whoever made it. 😖

    • @strilight
      @strilight Год назад +14

      True. If it was a custom or otherwise a more unique part then it might be worth the effort to try and fix it but this is a dime a dozen flat top AR-15 upper. For consumers a refund/replacement for this out-of-spec upper is the right thing to do.
      That being said they are in an educational environment and it's very telling that they'd rather teach people how to actually fix issues to become actual gunsmiths instead of remaining as mindless part-switchers. Same thing happens in every other field. Anyone can replace parts, but not everyone understands the machine enough to fix the issue without resorting to starting anew.

    • @toynazi
      @toynazi Год назад +6

      @@strilight Completely agree 👍

    • @youtubesnamingpolicysucks
      @youtubesnamingpolicysucks Год назад +4

      Hard to do if you want to finish the class and don't have a spare.
      A point to make here, if you're taking a class bring at least one spare upper, preferably from a different manufacturer. No guarantee they both won't be out of spec but it will mitigate the possibility.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +2

      One thing I wonder is whether that upper receiver has been "faced" (to square receiver throat for barrel extension and bore squareness) excessively. I suppose Chad would have mentioned that if it was the case, though. I can imagine someone getting too aggressive with a facing tool and taking too much aluminum off the receiver throat's face. I was secretly hoping that is what the problem was, and what Chad was going to talk about. Still a great thing to note, that it's possible to have this dimension wrong and that it's possible to fix it with shims.

    • @SchooloftheAmericanRifle
      @SchooloftheAmericanRifle  Год назад +15

      ​@@seanoneil277this was new out of the box. No facing had been done. It was unique enough that I wanted to capture it on video.
      For those reading, I normally won't shoot video in a class due to time constraints and concern for my students privacy. All of our class photos are volunteer and don't usually show all who attend. It's hard to keep everyone out of video footage with a full class.

  • @charlesgillette2925
    @charlesgillette2925 Год назад +6

    Just outstanding. I enjoy these videos a lot. Thank You for your time.

  • @ThrillHouse7
    @ThrillHouse7 Год назад +1

    I had this exact issue on a completed upper I bought. Couldn’t find a single bit of info on it until this. It also caused really inconsistent shots/ bad accuracy as well until I switched to a different upper receiver. Thank you for sharing!

  • @Blueknight1960
    @Blueknight1960 Год назад +1

    I have this exact problem on the 1st ar I ever bought. While the extension isn't that far in, it is just enough to cause a feeding problem sometimes (depends on the ammo). I'm going to order some shims and hopefully correct the problem. 1 or 2 very thin shims should do the trick. Thanks for the video, just what I needed.

  • @brunnandr
    @brunnandr Год назад +4

    I recently had the same problem with my Grey Ghost Upper and fixed it according to the video. After test firing I found the issue was not the barrel being seaterd to far in upper, but to much internal material was removed making it appear that the barrel was seated to far. After test firing, I found my buffer was damaged due to it slamming agaisnt my buffer retaining pin. This was due to the bolt carrier being able to travel to far forward. I compared the GGP upper with other uppers and found to much material was removed. I plan of trashing the upper due to it be machined to far out of spec for me.

    • @CheeseBurgerXJ
      @CheeseBurgerXJ Год назад

      I had to trash the first upper I bought as well. I didn’t buy a cheap one this time and got a WMD NIB-X upper and my BA barrel lines up perfectly on the feed ramps now, on the other one the tips of the bullet would get caught when I tried to charge it lightly almost every time. 😂 I asked chad if he wanted it but he never answered so idk what to do with it

  • @terryboone3333
    @terryboone3333 Год назад +6

    Wonder how many more of those uppers are out there?

  • @ThePatriotParadox
    @ThePatriotParadox Год назад

    Nice to see fixes for issues you've never even had, my barrel nut wasn't getting tight on my upper until the last half turn and thought I would need to use a shim or two, but thankfully the last half turn it got tight and everything's working fine, even though I probably torqued it to about 60ft lbs

  • @largelarry2126
    @largelarry2126 Год назад +4

    This is one reason why I stick with BCM uppers or any other high quality upper. Nice fix.

    • @rrr3r2
      @rrr3r2 Год назад +2

      @@JenkinsStevenD far as I know they do that on purpose. Pretty sure my last one came with a label saying it needed heated.

    • @largelarry2126
      @largelarry2126 Год назад +2

      @JenkinsStevenD that's the reason I like them. I have range at my house and have testing. The better the fit between the barrel and upper the less torque you need on the barrel nut. I have found the 30 to 35 ft lbs is best in most upper receivers. As the torque go's up it can start to stress the front portion of the receiver.

    • @anonanon1890
      @anonanon1890 6 месяцев назад +1

      I had/have this problem with a Gucci ambi receiver set I got from Falkor Defense (who was worthless in helping me remedy it, offered literally nothing and denied my request to swap the upper receiver), so it can happen with “high quality” uppers as well.

  • @SouthValleyKnifeCo
    @SouthValleyKnifeCo Год назад +9

    That was a Friday at 2:50 cut upper. 😊

  • @gurkane4080
    @gurkane4080 Год назад +3

    I used this this same method on my last two builds. Worked great! Accuracy and function were not affected at all.

    • @DeathN0cturnal
      @DeathN0cturnal Год назад +6

      if you had 2 builds that had this exact issue, you should really start buying higher quality parts that are properly QC'ed by the manufacturer.

    • @JustAverageJeff
      @JustAverageJeff Год назад +1

      @@DeathN0cturnal I thought the same exact thing lol I didn't anything like this on my assembly of an Aero M5.

    • @gurkane4080
      @gurkane4080 Год назад +3

      I didn’t know geissele and centurion arms were low quality manufacturers. There was only a slight overhang on the feed ramps and it wasn’t really an issue if you know how to address it properly. What manufacturers would you recommend?

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад

      @@gurkane4080 Overlong barrel extension, versus wrong dimension in the upper receiver? Whose barrel (s) were you using on the two that you shimmed like this?

    • @gurkane4080
      @gurkane4080 Год назад +1

      @sean O’Neil neither of the parts I was using were out of spec. The extension didn’t protrude on my build the way they do in this video. There was maybe .002-.003” overhang on the feed ramps. The feed ramps could’ve easily been polished in order to remedy this but I chose to use a shim instead. The shim I used was something I already on hand for aligning a barrel nut. The manufacturer doesn’t matter, it was a tolerance stacking issue. My rifles function flawlessly and that’s all I care about. I only posted this comment because of the other comments concerning reliability issues when using this method. I have seen no issues with accuracy.

  • @djinfwb
    @djinfwb Год назад +4

    Very interesting and informative! Thank you for sharing!

  • @bigracer3867
    @bigracer3867 Год назад

    Thx for the knowledge. I would take your class if it was in driving distance. But I live in gunsmith no man’s land. You all I got! When we lost Tony bend on M1A info I was beside myself. Please don’t leave us cause of YT👍

  • @Dukenukem777
    @Dukenukem777 Год назад +2

    What happens to the gas tube length?

  • @michaelangelo6217
    @michaelangelo6217 Год назад

    Had this same issue once. I remedied it in the same manner. Good vid.

  • @michaelsanbornsniper8231
    @michaelsanbornsniper8231 Год назад +1

    As you are constantly gauging, can you give us the correct dimensions for measuring the threaded portion on the upper receiver? I personally have never “faced” an upper receiver and never plan to. Would be nice be able to just measure and accept or reject.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +1

      What is this cartoon read of things, ,"constantly gauging"? Do you know what the truing of receiver face and barrel extension is about? It's about parallel planes. The easiest way to determine whether the mating faces are square is to chuck it in a lathe and do as a machinist would -- check the runout of the face at the receiver throat. If it's off, then mill it flat.
      People upthread keep saying "lap it." They don't know what they're talking about. Lapping is not this process. Unless in some parts of the USA the local dialect has a flexible definition of "lapping."

  • @brunnandr
    @brunnandr Год назад +1

    I recognized that upper right away from a recent build I am working on. Same issue! I used shims to fix it like you, but now the bolt carrier doesn't align with the rear of the reciever. Did you notice that problem with this fix?

  • @jacobkoenig6089
    @jacobkoenig6089 Год назад +1

    Why are notched shims required, wouldn't regular shims work just as well?

  • @righteousriverfishinginoregon7
    @righteousriverfishinginoregon7 10 месяцев назад

    Great information but you said something that caught my attention. You said this spacing does not affect head spacing. I'm having headspace issues with a 223 wylde barrel. I did lap the upper receiver. Could this have messed up my headspace? I'm using the correct headspace go guage and the lugs partially turn but don't fully engage. Thank you

  • @SauerkrautIsGood
    @SauerkrautIsGood Год назад +1

    Chad, what do you think about using a shim like this to fix very minor feed ramp overhang?

  • @christinepearson5788
    @christinepearson5788 Год назад +25

    I wonder how many over enthusiastic true the face of the reciver people have created this issue.

    • @MT_Pant_Suit
      @MT_Pant_Suit Год назад +2

      A lot

    • @yeshua1176
      @yeshua1176 Год назад +3

      It's completely unnecessary

    • @InstructorRandy
      @InstructorRandy Год назад +1

      @@yeshua1176with most it does but I've worked on a number where the tool that cut it was bad and it did help with centering the sights. But yes OP is right

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +4

      It's not that face truing is bad. It's more that a lot of people try things they have no business doing because they're not good with tools, and/or no need to do it because the receiver dimensions are fine. I know quite a few people who, before YT had tons of mechanical content, would never try any mechanical work. But they watch a video and think that makes up for a lifetime of not using tools.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +4

      @@yeshua1176 Wrong. But I'm sure you have a reason for being so absolute, and I'm sure you know more than people who have been accurizing AR platform rifles for decades.

  • @johnpoole8321
    @johnpoole8321 Год назад

    Excellent ! Thanks for sharing the knowledge.

  • @nealkrueger6097
    @nealkrueger6097 Год назад +3

    Does it matter if the shims are steel or aluminum shim stock ? Also does it matter if the shimstock is split or completely round? Also could you turn the needed shim to outside and inside diameters by the gap lenght needed plus a .010 crush allowance for barrel nut torque.?

    • @rshinn8776
      @rshinn8776 Год назад +3

      If the shim is whole, it will interfere with the pin.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +2

      What crush allowance are you talking about? Are you saying you have taken a micrometer to a pre-joined and post-joined barrel/upper and determined it always crushes 0.010 under 35 ft lbs of barrel nut torque?

  • @steveninaz9576
    @steveninaz9576 Год назад

    Thank you Sir.
    Happy you are making vids.

  • @AC-bl1rl
    @AC-bl1rl Год назад

    On the flip side, if the barrel extension comes up short, the carrier will hammer, and ruin, the receiver, right?

  • @koffeekage
    @koffeekage Год назад +2

    With the Receiver being too short, after adding the shims the gas tube should still line up properly since the barrel its affixed to is in spec right?

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад

      @@JenkinsStevenD Certainly more margin than a handful of shims' total thickness.

  • @TheDw07
    @TheDw07 Год назад +1

    What about if the barrel doesn't seat far enough? So the opposite of this issue. I have a new barrel and upper and when installed, there's a larger gap between the upper feed ramp and the barrel feed ramps, when compared to my other uppers.

    • @muddyhotdog4103
      @muddyhotdog4103 Год назад

      They make reamers thay true the face of upper receivers. A slight gap inward won't hurt, as long as the rear of the bcg meets flush as it should when installed..

  • @AT-03nt
    @AT-03nt Год назад

    That top corner of the upper near the threads looks like it got damaged. After the shims were installed there looks to be a crack in the anodizing. Did the upper fall off the table?

  • @madebyamerica81
    @madebyamerica81 Год назад +1

    Awesome videos. Thank you

  • @davekreitzer4358
    @davekreitzer4358 Год назад +1

    Very nice fix Chad , thanks as always , for sharing !!! ✔️

  • @armaanthadhani293
    @armaanthadhani293 Год назад +1

    Hey I have a GGP Receiver set and the hard part I've run into with the upper is installing the barrel because it's thermal fit. I sent my upper to them for another reason and they were nice enough to install the barrel for me but would really like to see the best method to install and remove a barrel this way. If you need an upper to do this I can send you my GGP Upper that already has a barrel installed. Thanks

    • @Revolver34
      @Revolver34 Год назад

      Hey, I have installed 4 barrels in those uppers and the are extremely tight. I used a torch and areo shell grease on the barrel. I put the barrel in a vice and heated the upper with the torch. Then slid it right on the barrel while the upper is hot and let it cool down. I’m pretty sure the upper he is showing in this video is a grey ghost upper. Edit: just noticed in title it is a GGP receiver. I have 4 of these and they are all like this in the video.

  • @donsal.t.1765
    @donsal.t.1765 Год назад

    I know this is not on topic but I bought a new upper today and when I took the lower of another of my AR's I looked down the barrel of the older upper and I saw a scratch that looked like a hair. Thought it was a tiny hair but I tried to brush it off and it never came off. Should I trash that barrel or is the scratch not that big of a problem?
    Thanks.

  • @JOESRQFLUSA
    @JOESRQFLUSA 9 месяцев назад

    WOULD THE GAS TUBE BE TOO SHORT?

  • @evanharnois8686
    @evanharnois8686 Год назад

    Could this fix potentially cause accuracy issues?

  • @Mjdeben
    @Mjdeben Год назад +1

    What are these shims called and where can i get some?

  • @mutatedgenome
    @mutatedgenome Год назад

    Thanks for sharing Chad.

  • @ShelbyBasham-l9m
    @ShelbyBasham-l9m 10 месяцев назад +1

    I just ran into this same issue on my Grey Ghost Billet Receivers. I emailed Grey Ghost and they told me it is normal for a m4 feed ramp extension in a rifle receiver? According to them this is in spec?

    • @wayzooted
      @wayzooted 9 месяцев назад

      Have you had any issue?

    • @ShelbyBasham-l9m
      @ShelbyBasham-l9m 9 месяцев назад +1

      ​@wayzooted I had accuracy and some random feeding issues. I started to shim it, but with it being a rifle receiver I scrapped it and ordered a bcm anyways.

    • @wayzooted
      @wayzooted 9 месяцев назад

      @@ShelbyBasham-l9m Thanks! I took some measurements and it looks like the upper I have is in the same boat.

    • @ShelbyBasham-l9m
      @ShelbyBasham-l9m 9 месяцев назад +1

      @wayzooted I had 2 and they both were. Ggp said it was normal for a m4 extension in a rifle upper. I call BS. Honestly why in world they didn't machine them as m4 ramped uppers I don't understand.

    • @wayzooted
      @wayzooted 9 месяцев назад

      @@ShelbyBasham-l9m It looks like their forged receiver has m4 ramps. I was also wondering if the billet was cut slightly different to account for no feed ramps on the upper? It appears that the m4 cut barrel overhangs into the upper but the feed ramp cuts line up with edge of the upper.

  • @Sandhill1988
    @Sandhill1988 Год назад +1

    I wish you had flipped it around and let us take a look at the position of the index pin.

  • @nismoracer15
    @nismoracer15 8 месяцев назад

    What about the opposite of this example. The feedramps sit pretty far off from the receiver notches? Issue or non issue? In other words, receiver too long.

  • @RJJ6129
    @RJJ6129 Год назад

    Thank you Chad

  • @darylbauer5184
    @darylbauer5184 Год назад +2

    Great simple, cheap fix! Thanks for sharing!

  • @M21-w1y
    @M21-w1y 4 месяца назад

    Yeah, someone got happy with the lapping compound and drill😂😂😂😂

  • @BearcityarmsInc
    @BearcityarmsInc Месяц назад

    It's 1 of 2 problems.bad barrel extention or out of spec upper.adding shims is not the answer.check to see which one is out and replace.its that simple.

  • @Frens03
    @Frens03 Год назад +1

    I have an upper with the opposite issue.. the receiver threads are a couple of millimeters too long…

  • @Jordan-ql6tm
    @Jordan-ql6tm Год назад

    Fascinating

  • @mrrogers2611
    @mrrogers2611 Год назад +3

    Looks like that machined upper mfg needs to fix their specs. 😬

    • @MT_Pant_Suit
      @MT_Pant_Suit Год назад

      Sadly there are many crap ones out there.

  • @martinswiney2192
    @martinswiney2192 Год назад +1

    Amazes me to see how many of these mil spec rifle parts are just paper weights. Quality control has just gone away.

  • @joeljimenez805
    @joeljimenez805 3 месяца назад

    Is grey ghost good?

  • @keithcox3350
    @keithcox3350 Год назад

    Thanks!

  • @bordersoldier
    @bordersoldier Год назад +1

    When he opens the Vice and it hit’s steal to steal

  • @albertptran
    @albertptran Год назад

    Nice!

  • @A8vscRrabbit
    @A8vscRrabbit Год назад +1

    Audio is patchy when I watch it?

    • @Baconaughts
      @Baconaughts Год назад

      Audio fine when I watched it, possibly because you watched it shortly after initial processing?

    • @A8vscRrabbit
      @A8vscRrabbit Год назад

      @@Baconaughts I'll try again

    • @A8vscRrabbit
      @A8vscRrabbit Год назад

      @@Baconaughts still does it. Strange. Same place every time

  • @chrisgabbert658
    @chrisgabbert658 Год назад

    👍😊 I like fixen stuff well it be I’m cheap 🤷‍♂️ . 😁

  • @TonyMontana-jg2gu
    @TonyMontana-jg2gu Год назад

    Sweet!

  • @josh48315
    @josh48315 Год назад

    So was the issue likely the upper, or the barrel? I know we cannot say for sure, but folks who have encountered this problem before, which part is more likely to be the issue?

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад

      I'd guess it's the barrel extension but that's purely a guess. I have read and heard of different tolerances among different barrel extensions, so I'll guess that's the source.

    • @SchooloftheAmericanRifle
      @SchooloftheAmericanRifle  Год назад +2

      The problem part is mentioned at 1:02

    • @josh48315
      @josh48315 Год назад +2

      @@SchooloftheAmericanRifle thanks not sure how I missed that. The upper is the problem due to the nose of the upper being too short, causing the barrel to sit deeper than desired for anyone reading. What spec should the nose of the upper measure?

  • @EC-mc7vg
    @EC-mc7vg Год назад

    I would add don't line up the notches if you need more than one shim, space the gaps like rings on a piston. I have only had to do this one time, I didn't cut a notch out of the shims, I simply cut the shims in one place, slide them on the extension, at the pin simply open the cut and "screw" it on the extension around the pin. The video is a good reminder to check for barrel extension overhang or being short in the receiver.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад

      With the gap that small a % of the 360deg circumference, I don't think you need to worry about barrel tilt when all shim gaps are aligned.

    • @EC-mc7vg
      @EC-mc7vg Год назад +1

      @@seanoneil277 Not worried as much about tilt as I am about even contact area. I want all the even contact and surface area I can get at the mating point of the barrel extension and receiver, that's why I don't cut out notches, leave as much shim as possible.

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад

      @@EC-mc7vg I follow you. Precision is good. And as long as taking the effort to shim, may as well be precise. I get it.

    • @SchooloftheAmericanRifle
      @SchooloftheAmericanRifle  Год назад +4

      ​@@EC-mc7vgthe shim has to be clipped to clear the index pin, thus all the notched areas have to line up.

    • @EC-mc7vg
      @EC-mc7vg Год назад +1

      @@SchooloftheAmericanRifle There doesn't even have to be notches in the shim(s), simply split to get around the index pin as there is a slight space between the index pin and the mating surface of the barrel extension. Even if one decided to notch the shims the notches can be spaced out and not all lined up. Like I said, I have only had to this once and that was the solution I came up with and it worked well. I am not a trained gunsmith but have been a mechanic for over 40 years and had to do similar fixes. Thank you for your videos, they are informative and I have learned things to look for when assembling AR rifles and pistols.

  • @MT_Pant_Suit
    @MT_Pant_Suit 9 месяцев назад

    Avoid GGP

  • @glocksp80smd
    @glocksp80smd 14 дней назад

    So this isn't a grey ghost 😂

  • @be5718
    @be5718 Год назад +10

    I don't understand why you don't show who the manufacturer is. If manufacturers are making subpar or dangerous products, wouldn't you want consumers to know? Thumbs down for not highlighting the upper manufacturer.

    • @SouthValleyKnifeCo
      @SouthValleyKnifeCo Год назад +8

      Because everyone has the potential to have bad parts slip through. That's not what this is about. This is about "here's an issue you might come across, and here is the relevant fix."

    • @seanoneil277
      @seanoneil277 Год назад +3

      Don't be so neurotic. First, he didn't say this was a trend from a single manufacturer. Second, the point of his videos is not shaming manufacturers, as much as you may want it to be that. Third, if you don't know mechanical principles yourself, why are you building an AR?

    • @SouthValleyKnifeCo
      @SouthValleyKnifeCo Год назад +1

      @@jacobcastro1885 here's the issue. Chad as a large amount of influence and a reputation to maintain. Him not sharing the manufacturer is a way to protect himself and the manufacturer. If the customer/student decides they want to disclose the manufacturer thats their choice.

    • @SchooloftheAmericanRifle
      @SchooloftheAmericanRifle  Год назад +7

      ​@be5718 stay disappointed then.
      I teach what to look for no matter WHO makes an AR part.
      Thinking only certain AR manufacturers have issues is a fools errand because they ALL have problems if you know what to look for. Many of the "well resected" or "high end" brands have equal to or more issues as many of the budget or mid their brands do but people don't know what they don't know and like to parrot things others say without having skin I the game.

    • @fujifame1
      @fujifame1 Год назад

      @@SchooloftheAmericanRifle I seem to remember when my cheapest parts I could get AR outperformed my Barrett Rec7 in every category in your class. Nothing against Barrett, but every manufacturer has highs and lows.