So I was the owner of this barrel. It came as a complete upper from PSA. From the factory none of my bolt carriers would go into battery. The upper was dead on arrival. I disassembled the upper and discovered that PSA had sheered the index pin and installed the front sight base to look straight with an improperly clocked barrel. I reinstalled with a different gas block and it functioned fine but I sent it in to Chad for a possible fix and to make a video/use in his classes as an example.
If you notice copper fouling on the gas port is opposite direction of the oblong hole of the barrel pin. My guess is the barrel was put in a fixture at the factory and they tried to torque the sight to the left which broke the pin. I’m at 10:32 in the vid. Maybe he says that later. I have an older PSA when every M4 rifle from them was mil spec and back then the only problem people were reporting was it was iffy weather the barrel nut would have antiseize or not. I think all the mass produced rifles these days are running on too small a labor force for the throughput of product and that’s why these quality control issues pop up so much now.
During any of this did you reach out to PSA? It is one thing for companies to let defective parts fall through the cracks (even ISO companies have customer rejects) it is another for said company to not try and remedy it....
Never buy a blemish, you can’t say for certain if it will perform flawlessly. That’s like buying a “factory second” parachute. Really not an area to skimp.
@@ElderGuy729 I have a 16” psa Blem rifle. I’ve put about 6000 rounds through it with no problems. Performs same as my Aero precision which was almost double the price.
I was in QC at a major truck manufacturer for 25 years, and I had more than my share of arguments with production supervisors AND QC upper management. I've seen some sketchy things go down the line. We were told not to right up some things, and got into trouble if we did. A bit of advice.... if a tractor-trailer pulls up along side you on the interstate... get away from it.
Ive drove CDL-A for 20yrs and worked on em for 4 and i can affirm ,if the rig looks like crap, it is crap so get way from it . Most especially yellow freight and its minions.
Man! You have some really nice tools. This shows that you, sir, are a "professional". I once had an Army officer tell me that I had no respect for authority, I told him to show me an authority and I would show him all the respect that he deserves.
Here's my hypothesis on the confluence of issues: The barrel extension was out of spec and/or installed improperly; this results in the headspace issue. When it was then installed in an upper, it was over-torqued to get the gas tube to align with the barrel nut (maybe the bad extension, against which the nut torques, had something to do with this), and that probably sheared the index pin and rotated the whole barrel a bit, resulting in the lugs misaligning. It was later observed that the front sight base was canted, so instead of uncovering the root of the issue, PSA just redrilled the pin holes and straightened the FSB, even though the barrel alignment underneath it was still a problem. I think a logical progression can trace every observed symptom back to a bad extension.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle i've got this same, shit ass grade barrel from psa. the fsb is canted. i'm gonna check mine for lug damage, if i find it, how do i send the upper to you for a tear down and video on it. unlike the guy who sent this barrel to you mine is fully assembled still.
@@MrSGL21 i bought a "preimum" fn chf upper last week. Front sight canted. I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. Good luck getting in touch with anyone in CS.
@@tommcfarland5368 " I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. " You might just need to, in as much as if they don't, or if you can't prove in a court of law that they do, what you said there would seem Defamatory. If I were PSA and if PSA wasn't buying blems or 2nds from FN, I'd be tempted to make you back that "Guarantee" with facts, in court. 😉 Now "Suspect" suspect is another word you could of used. . . . . but , you know. . . to each his own.
3 months ago, I built my AR15. I’d never shot one, and clumsily handled one once. My rifle is awesome! I’m intensely curious about understanding the AR platform. Chad’s videos explain things that I want to know. Thank you so much, Chad! /Respect!
I had a BCM barrel rotate and the bolt started peening the BE after 2500 rounds, so bad QC can happen with any company. A nearly $800 screwup. I also threw together a PSA 10.5 Upper pistol build that didn’t have the FSB using a spikes lower that’s gone about 4000 rounds that so far has passed the gauges. So who knows.
I wish I would have seen this video before I shipped my 10.5 barrel back today. I appreciate your time and explanation you provided me here. It sure helps a novice understand an AR15 barrel.
Thanks so much for posting this video. People need to understand that no one should order parts, especially bolts and barrels, from various suppliers and just assume they'll fit properly. You're the man!
What a professional! I am a former machinist and I am very impressed with Chad's skills. I am so glad that I found this video. Please keep posting. If you notice all the gauges and tools he has. These are very expensive and it is why gunsmiths much charge what they do.
Very educational. Very glad i watched. Watched some early videos also. The Rosco barrel video big education on wear also. Would love to see this kind of look at all manufacturers with the the same use and rounds thru them.
A few weeks ago, I had short stroking and feeding issues on my 10.5 PSA build. Ended up finding 2 broken gas rings and a sheared firing pin retainer pin. Only had 500 rounds through this gun. Ended up ordering a toolcraft bolt and carrier to replace the PSA. I fixed the original PSA, and now have it as a back up for my AR's. Its unfortunate, but seems like inferior metallurgy in the gas rings and retainer pin.
A lot of BCGs out there have roughly-machined carrier bores, which are then chromed or nitrided. As the gas rings articulate back and forth inside those non-spec bores, the gas rings get thrashed and torn apart quickly. It's one of the first things I look at before I allow a bolt carrier to be considered for assembly with the other parts. There are a lot of cheap gas rings out there as well that aren't made from the materials or processes called out in the TDP.
@@T_D_B_ 1 inch makes huge difference in the dwell time and the pressure, The gas port locations and gas tube length also greatly effect forces applied to the internals. The Pig Tail pistol gas tube that had a few wraps around the barrel to give it longer length like carbine gas system had actual advantages. For as bad as 10.5 barrels are you see the abuse and destruction a 7 inch 5.56 barrel does. That shorter barrel is trade off and then crosses a threshold of more problems and way shorter life even in a semi auto.
I can't agree MORE with that statement. On my last build I went with Criterion Hybrid 18" 1-8 Barrel and a matched bolt. Then we matched a Rubber City Armory Extremely Lightweight BCG to it. This rifle was built as a coyote hunting rifle. Thats why we went 1-8 Twist on a 223 Wylde chamber. After hand lapping the upper receiver to the barrel. And with ammo tailored to this barrel (55gr Hornady V-Max) It shoots 1/8"- 1/4" groups all day at 100 yrds off a simple bipod. So yea, you're on the right path with your thinking.
Agree. For many it's changing up furniture and outward details while the guts should be first priority. Even with a PSA, one can upgrade key parts over time till you essentially have no PSA anymore. A layaway plan for a quality rifle where you still get access to something while engaging the development of the system.
@@Lowest_Levels Agree completely with that "layaway plan" mentality. Especially in an era where there's shortage of firearms, parts, ammo. Can't necessarily get the gun you desire, as a complete. Might have a many-months wait and who knows what sorts of legislation the current Congress will pass while you're waiting. Bird in the hand, etc.
Unless you’re shooting out barrels frequently you might find it to be a better investment to buy a barrel from a company that performs similar QC proceedures on all of their barrels
@@bootgrip6 Who does that though? Its not like there is a mfg out there who you cant get a lemon from. He has had expensive barrels like LMT on here have issues.
That was an amazing video. It's been a long time since I've learned so many new things from a single video. I have a Radical AR-15 with some 20,000 rounds on it. It's still shooting. I use it as a beater gun in tactical shooting. I'm sure your Gauges and Barrel Scope would show some amazing things!
I love these videos, I remember when I first found you I forgot the account name and couldn’t find any of your videos, almost thought your account got taken down. Definitely dropping a sub this time so that doesn’t happen
All you really need is chamber gauges. There are three types no- go gauge ,go gauge and Field gauge . Typically you can get away with the no-go gauge and go- gauge.
Looking at the way the pin sheared, it was definitely broken during installation and not removal. You can see where the LH (from shooter's side) of the pin tore away first. You can see where it looks like the LH side of the pin sheared and the RH looks more like a tension break.
Extremely informative video. What set of gauges do you recommend that someone should obtain prior to purchasing an AR rifle, since it appears that some manufacturers have issues with supplying not fit for use parts? Would you also provide us with a list of the various gauges that you are using. I would also like to know which manufacturer has the lowest defect rate.
Can you share some of the manufactures that are in your bin of shame? Curious if it's primarily the low cost brands or if you have any top tier barrels in there also.
@Tom Cizzle yes, every Manufacturer makes lemons. How they handle them isn't always good. Certain companies are terrible at actually diagnosing and fixing problems.
@Ell Roth The bins of shame include many companies. The intent is not to shsme or sway who to buy from, it's only to show that parts can be terribly out of spec, be worn where the eye can't detect, or to show catastrophic issues. Beyond PSA, few companies have a problem with what I teach.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle you're right, with even the "best" of modern machining there are bound to be lemons that slip through QC and can cause some tolerance stacking or bigger issues unless you check EVERY part made like you do... PSA and BCA are on "my" list among a couple others, basically anything cheaper than Aero is a waste of time and no-go for me, decent QC and good customer service for the ones that do "slip" through.
As a machinist myself, I can say that these lemons should be caught and batched back to the tool breakage or zeroing error. There's no reason in a precision manufacturing setting to miss more than 1 out of 1000... Unless you just aren't employing QC or other machinists checking them off the line.
4 года назад
@@privatecitizen5264 when you buy cheap you are the QC. When you pay that extra hundo you are paying for an actual professional with quality gauges to check your product before it leaves the building.
I bought a PSA 10.5" Premium upper back in 2017 and it's been a great shooter. Even mounted it on a full auto post sample NFA lower and ran crazy amount of ammo out of it on a 102degree day. Never once had a problem. However, I have no doubt that the newer PSA uppers are having issues. Most people buy the bottom of the barrel cheap PSA uppers and naturally have problems with them. I do think the "premium" PSA barrels and uppers are of decent quality for the value.
@@buckaroobonsi555 I agree with most of what you say. However PSA has stated that their "premium" barrels are made by FN and mine does have FN markings on it. The premium barrels are also chrome lined and their regular barrels (non FN) aren't. Now, that's just higher quality parts, so the production at the same PSA facility is the same as you mentioned and could be less than favorable. Also, BCM does have two separate options and price points. If you look online at BCM barrels on their website you'll see two different price points on most of their barrels. One is a cold hammered forged option and the other is a button forged option which is cheaper. So, this practice is not uncommon with many companies. I personally would take a FN barrel over BCM. But I would definitely take a BCM barrel over the regular non premium PSA barrel for sure. My 'go to war' AR is a BCM too. So, I don't think I'm being biased.
Everyone is forgetting about covid parts and this goes for anything made during covid A LOT of things got sent out with issues to keep company's afloat
Amazing video. So net, net, how do you buy a high quality barrel that leaves all these problems behind? What is estimated price? What are a couple of reliable mfrs?
I think there was a burr on the inside of the lugs in the barrel extension that interfered with the gauge. That barrel had been shot a bit and that would be hard to do if the barrel extension was off that much to not take the gauge.
Depending on when you get your PSA stuff, a few years back their QC was kinda crap... these days it is very solid and they WILL make any issues right... coming from a multiple PSA AR owner.... granted mine are .300AAC
Very interesting. It seems like using a reaction rod that goes into the barrel extension would keep it from shearing off, not make it more likely. What makes it more likely?
The fact that now you're trying to torque the extension through the index pin. A barrel vise is many times the proper tool, but Giessle doesn't sell that.... I have a collection of oak blocks with different holes for various barrel tapers. It's not hard to hold a barrel with oak and rosin. Only action wrenches I use are for bolt guns that will only see 40-60 ft lbs.
I’d love to have a set of those gages. Most I could make if I had specs but a few would be difficult! I’m a gage maker in aerospace mfg. Idea on how much they all cost?
i agree with what others have said, too many dudes are gunsmithing and pushing the limits (myself included) the difference is guys like myself that know and admit when we maybe broke something and others that will just blame the part that broke. its like JDM tuning all over again
I’ve seen it several times...Improper use of reaction rod to use to tighten barrel nut instead of the receiver where the threads actually reside. Customers call in time and time again and it’s always the case.
How did this barrel pass inspection from the manufacturer, before assembly, sale and distribution? A recall notice should go out from the manufacturer.
About 2:07 you said you have other videos that discuss how the pin can get sheared off depending on the tool used. Well, I've looked through you video list twice and don't see a such a video listed, at least not where it is in the title. Would you please provide a link to the video? It is a good idea if you reference another video, provide a link either in the description or a pinned comment.
I enjoyed that, a lot of good useful info. I have built several ARs for myself and take it as serous as possible but now I can step it up. I'm going to use your video to find and order all the tools needed. Do you go to the trouble of fitting the bolt head to the barrel/barrel extension on builds? I have and ended up with a bunch of bolt heads that don't seem to fit well in any barrel I find.
I thought the same thing, It's CHF and CL for me on any sort of fighting rifle build. Military's have been using them world wide for years and I believe it's the best barrel for high round counts and over all toughness.
You take people at their word far too much. People love exaggerating details or even flat out hiding the truth. Take everything you hear from someone holding a broken anything with a few pounds of salt.
I have the exact same 10.5” 5.56 barrel with 900 rounds through it(I’ve been keeping track) and it’s just discolored from the heat, no erosion so I’m not sure what this guy did
I have a midlength 16 inch barrel from them and I've put about 2000 rounds through it with the worst of it 500 rounds in one day in pretty much one sitting. This guy had to of done something or the coating wasn't right. I've never seen a barrel erode like that it sounds like someone was doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.
A lot of what's being sold as nitride is nitride in name only. To save money, they use the same process, but at much lower temperatures, with lower concentrations of the essential chemicals.
Are there any other conditions that can cause damage to the feeding side of the barrel extension lugs like that? I've got peening of this nature on my AR and am trying to diagnose it.
I'm the person that removed that barrel. The owner of the barrel purchased the upper without a bolt carrier assembly and he did not put it to immediate use. When he tried to use it, the bolt would not enter the barrel extension at all. I told him that the barrel was out of index from the factory and would not be usable. I said possibly a new barrel extension might work but the barrel as it stood was unusable. We then agreed to remove the barrel from the upper. I used a reaction rod. The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. I then used a dead blow mallet (not something I would usually do) and, finally, the nut moved. Regarding the front sight pins, that was as they appeared from the factory. Whether I sheared the barrel extension pin or it was like that from the factory, I couldn't tell you for sure. The impacts on the extension lugs is from the reaction rod.
". The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. " i recently rebarreled a psa upper. it was a nightmare. those motherfuckers dry humped the barrel to over 100 ft lbs with no lube. i had to use the dremel god and cut to relief cuts in the barrel nut.
WHOA. Wait one second. You're saying the lug damage was from the reaction rod and that the end user never was able to get a bolt carrier to close on this barrel. that means the end user never fired this barrel. he couldn't have. but the barrel is used. its been fired. and that means PSA is recycling used parts and selling stuff as new.
Jeremy N Yes, unfired. He bought it without a bolt carrier assembly. That’s why he did not know the bolt would not enter the barrel extension until years after. ( I don’t know exactly how long.) To be fair, I have gotten many things from PSA and they were perfectly fine. I also used to do Colt warranty service in NYC when they had warranty stations and they were not perfect either.
Does anyone else get massive anxiety watching these videos thinking you need to check every part of your rifle because something MUST be wrong with it now :’d
With any firearm, the first thing I do at the range is fire a factory cartridge and check it for pressure signs. Repeat for total of 5 rounds, then throughly examine the cases. How could someone fire up to 500 rounds through this barrel?
I have multiple AR builds from PSA, most of their stuff holds up! Also a big thing with PSA is if you get a bad lemon they have awesome customer service.
Very interesting. Wonder if PSA would send him another barrel in this case? Seems really like a manufacture or assembly issue for sure. Good stuff! Lots of great info here.
jbarker83 PSA 100% broke that index pin in the installation by over torquing the barrel nut, which is the reason why the front sight block was canted and had to have a shoddy repair done to it.
I wouldnt necessarily scrap that barrel. Couldnt the chamber be cut slightly deeper (unless its case hardened or chromed) and just fabricate and install a stepped pin for orientation? A bit of fine deburr work on the barrel extension to clean up the raised metal. I guess I'm biased because I am a machinist by trade.
Just curious. I noticed the locking lug area looks dirty. Doesn't it make a difference in performing all specification checks with the gauges if the barrel internal surfaces are not not clean?
I have a PSA barreled upper that also has a canted FSB. My pin holes are way uglier than this one, but they are obviously misaligned. I haven’t been able to detect any issues with the pin or lugs though.
i recently got a BCG from them and one of the lugs was half way taken off after about 300 rounds. i emailed them to send it back and after a month i haven't heard anything
On the head space issue couldn't the chamber just be reamed lightly until it passes? If I am understanding how your go no go gauges work it seems the front seats on the chamber shoulder and then the lugs should clear the barrel extension. Is that correct? Granted the broken index pin and messed up taper bores are issues too. I'm just generally curious.
as someone who never worked with machining and quality control. when talking about gun manufacturing, what dictates more the end result? the tooling/machine used or the design of the firearm?
Ive been working in the manufacturing sector for more than 10 years making automotive structural components. I can tell you with confidence that the entire process is important. From design to materials to dimensional tolerances and also machine maintenance and qualified operators and good QA/QC technicians. A single problem anywhere in the process will not just go away and will only make more issues downstream. An incorrectly set counterbalance on a press will cause warpage in the parts, those out of spec parts will cause welds to blow out at the assembly cells, completed parts will not pin correctly onto the check fixtures and the entire assembly is junk. if management cant correct the problem then its only a matter of time before defective parts are put on a truck and sent to the customer. The best safeguard is good management keeping an eye on everything, on the production floor every day and engaged in every aspect of production.
I bought a PSA barrel for a build project. Out of the box I found the index pin was severely canted. Sent it back for an exchange. Replacement barrel arrived and its index pin was also visibly canted, but not as bad as the 1st barrel so I figured I would give it a try. After the install I found the front sight post was not aligned vertically and the barrel extension was not clocked correctly causing the bolt head to crash on the extension. I removed the flash hider, front sight post and barrel nut/delta ring from the barrel and threw the barrel in the trash. Never again, PSA, never again.
Could one run a 5.56 chamber reamer in a barrel such as this that indicated a short throat? I understand that it wouldn’t be a useful barrel with the pin sheared but on a regular barrel with no other problems?
Yeah, I'm confused...I thought the reaction rod WAS the ideal tool, instead of clamping the receiver into a block and tightening the barrel nut that way, which would (in my mind) possibly torque the receiver and put wayyy more stress on the pin and the notch. Hopefully we get an answer.
I think the issue was the over-torquing, rather than the tool itself. Over-torquing will cause problems, no matter what tool is used. The torque gets applied somewhere.
I have an AR 10 ten inch upper that Ive put together and I’m having issues with the bolt seating properly. I have to use forward assist to put it in place. Not sure if the gas tub e is not seating proper on bolt carrier or bolt is not seating well with chamber. Result is cases are not extracting properly causing occasional double feeds. I hate to speed $189 on LMT double extraction pin bolt if the problem is hopefully simpler
What’d you end up doing? Was gonna comment if it’s not the gas tube nor a mistimed barrel, maybe the gas key in your bolt is crooked or probably just need to replace the BCG as a whole
Chad, I'm confused...at 1.43 you say if someone uses a reaction rod there's likely to be a bunch of force transferred to the pin if the barrel nut is over tightened. I thought the whole purpose of a reaction rod was to eliminate the majority of the torque between the pin & upper receiver, essentially allowing you to tighten the down nut & snug it to the receiver to spec against the reaction rod vs. putting the receiver in a block and tightening the nut against it directly. What am I missing?
The reaction rod doesn’t necessarily keep the receiver from rotating under high torque, like the Midwest Ind. rod. Watch his video with AR Build junkie regarding the matter for more insight.
Carly, The reaction rod is will allow damage to the index pin if not used carefully. I have a video I made for AR Build Junkie that addresses this topic. Check out their RUclips channel.
ABlindMan1 No, it is the opposite. The reaction rod prevents the barrel from twisting, but when force is applied to the nut, it wants to turn the receiver. The only thing stopping the receiver from turning with the nut is the index pin. Reaction rods are best suited for installing muzzle devices so that the barrel will not twist.
You have any videos on fixing excessive wobble in an upper and lower? I dont want to use rubber bands. I've got a Ar-10 with more wobble than I'm comfortable with.
So I was the owner of this barrel.
It came as a complete upper from PSA.
From the factory none of my bolt carriers would go into battery.
The upper was dead on arrival.
I disassembled the upper and discovered that PSA had sheered the index pin and installed the front sight base to look straight with an improperly clocked barrel.
I reinstalled with a different gas block and it functioned fine but I sent it in to Chad for a possible fix and to make a video/use in his classes as an example.
If you notice copper fouling on the gas port is opposite direction of the oblong hole of the barrel pin. My guess is the barrel was put in a fixture at the factory and they tried to torque the sight to the left which broke the pin. I’m at 10:32 in the vid. Maybe he says that later. I have an older PSA when every M4 rifle from them was mil spec and back then the only problem people were reporting was it was iffy weather the barrel nut would have antiseize or not. I think all the mass produced rifles these days are running on too small a labor force for the throughput of product and that’s why these quality control issues pop up so much now.
@@NecessaryWall So purchase new old stock or used and well kept? Lol
During any of this did you reach out to PSA? It is one thing for companies to let defective parts fall through the cracks (even ISO companies have customer rejects) it is another for said company to not try and remedy it....
@ yes it’s been years, but my recollection is that I could not get an RMA number
When you bought it as a blem, but cant find the blem.
lol...
Never buy a blemish, you can’t say for certain if it will perform flawlessly. That’s like buying a “factory second” parachute. Really not an area to skimp.
@@ElderGuy729 if the gun is intended for defense i agree, but I wouldn't say never buy a blemished
@@ElderGuy729 I have a 16” psa Blem rifle. I’ve put about 6000 rounds through it with no problems. Performs same as my Aero precision which was almost double the price.
@@ElderGuy729 as long as it’s not a bcg, barrel , trigger and buffer spring-buffer you should be golden always check though
I was in QC at a major truck manufacturer for 25 years, and I had more than my share of arguments with production supervisors AND QC upper management. I've seen some sketchy things go down the line. We were told not to right up some things, and got into trouble if we did. A bit of advice.... if a tractor-trailer pulls up along side you on the interstate... get away from it.
Same is done in the oil field in which I'm a machinist in.
Ive drove CDL-A for 20yrs and worked on em for 4 and i can affirm ,if the rig looks like crap, it is crap so get way from it .
Most especially yellow freight and its minions.
Man! You have some really nice tools. This shows that you, sir, are a "professional".
I once had an Army officer tell me that I had no respect for authority, I told him to show me an authority and I would show him all the respect that he deserves.
based
You have gotten my attention. I am searching Brownells and elsewhere for similar tools and gauges.
Here's my hypothesis on the confluence of issues: The barrel extension was out of spec and/or installed improperly; this results in the headspace issue. When it was then installed in an upper, it was over-torqued to get the gas tube to align with the barrel nut (maybe the bad extension, against which the nut torques, had something to do with this), and that probably sheared the index pin and rotated the whole barrel a bit, resulting in the lugs misaligning. It was later observed that the front sight base was canted, so instead of uncovering the root of the issue, PSA just redrilled the pin holes and straightened the FSB, even though the barrel alignment underneath it was still a problem. I think a logical progression can trace every observed symptom back to a bad extension.
I think you’re spot on.
Doktor Faustus,
I agree. I just can t say with a definitive answer since I didn't tear it down from it's factory state.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle i've got this same, shit ass grade barrel from psa. the fsb is canted. i'm gonna check mine for lug damage, if i find it, how do i send the upper to you for a tear down and video on it. unlike the guy who sent this barrel to you mine is fully assembled still.
@@MrSGL21 i bought a "preimum" fn chf upper last week. Front sight canted. I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. Good luck getting in touch with anyone in CS.
@@tommcfarland5368 " I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. "
You might just need to, in as much as if they don't, or if you can't prove in a court of law that they do, what you said there would seem Defamatory.
If I were PSA and if PSA wasn't buying blems or 2nds from FN, I'd be tempted to make you back that "Guarantee" with facts, in court. 😉
Now "Suspect" suspect is another word you could of used. . . . . but , you know. . . to each his own.
3 months ago, I built my AR15. I’d never shot one, and clumsily handled one once. My rifle is awesome! I’m intensely curious about understanding the AR platform. Chad’s videos explain things that I want to know. Thank you so much, Chad! /Respect!
I had a BCM barrel rotate and the bolt started peening the BE after 2500 rounds, so bad QC can happen with any company. A nearly $800 screwup. I also threw together a PSA 10.5 Upper pistol build that didn’t have the FSB using a spikes lower that’s gone about 4000 rounds that so far has passed the gauges. So who knows.
If it’s human made there is margin for error. Some companies are worse than others at detecting
@@rifleshooterchannel208 lol I call BS. Sounds like user error
That’s because PSA IS THE BEST EVERRRRRRR!
I wish I would have seen this video before I shipped my 10.5 barrel back today. I appreciate your time and explanation you provided me here. It sure helps a novice understand an AR15 barrel.
your videos are very helpful and informative. You should have at least 100k subscribers.
Subbed because these are the only autopsy videos that still turn my stomach
Absolutely impressed by the knowledge that Chad has. Razor sharp. I would give anything to be able to download his brain
Thanks so much for posting this video. People need to understand that no one should order parts, especially bolts and barrels, from various suppliers and just assume they'll fit properly. You're the man!
What a professional! I am a former machinist and I am very impressed with Chad's skills. I am so glad that I found this video. Please keep posting. If you notice all the gauges and tools he has. These are very expensive and it is why gunsmiths much charge what they do.
OMG ur asskisser game is on point.
Very educational. Very glad i watched. Watched some early videos also. The Rosco barrel video big education on wear also. Would love to see this kind of look at all manufacturers with the the same use and rounds thru them.
A few weeks ago, I had short stroking and feeding issues on my 10.5 PSA build. Ended up finding 2 broken gas rings and a sheared firing pin retainer pin. Only had 500 rounds through this gun. Ended up ordering a toolcraft bolt and carrier to replace the PSA. I fixed the original PSA, and now have it as a back up for my AR's. Its unfortunate, but seems like inferior metallurgy in the gas rings and retainer pin.
Maybe the inside if the bolt carrier is out of spec or the chrome is?
A lot of BCGs out there have roughly-machined carrier bores, which are then chromed or nitrided. As the gas rings articulate back and forth inside those non-spec bores, the gas rings get thrashed and torn apart quickly. It's one of the first things I look at before I allow a bolt carrier to be considered for assembly with the other parts. There are a lot of cheap gas rings out there as well that aren't made from the materials or processes called out in the TDP.
@@UMADBRO64 hahahaha so 1 inch makes all the difference eh? (That's what she said heh)
@@T_D_B_ 1 inch makes huge difference in the dwell time and the pressure, The gas port locations and gas tube length also greatly effect forces applied to the internals. The Pig Tail pistol gas tube that had a few wraps around the barrel to give it longer length like carbine gas system had actual advantages. For as bad as 10.5 barrels are you see the abuse and destruction a 7 inch 5.56 barrel does. That shorter barrel is trade off and then crosses a threshold of more problems and way shorter life even in a semi auto.
OnValkyrieWings MK18 mod 2 wtf are you talking about. The Block 3 MK18 barrels are CHF Daniel Defense 10 inch barrels with Mk12 gas blocks.
I have 2 PSA uppers, both have a canted front sight.
Here is why you spend most of your build money on BCG'S AND BARREL'S!
I can't agree MORE with that statement. On my last build I went with Criterion Hybrid 18" 1-8 Barrel and a matched bolt. Then we matched a Rubber City Armory Extremely Lightweight BCG to it. This rifle was built as a coyote hunting rifle. Thats why we went 1-8 Twist on a 223 Wylde chamber. After hand lapping the upper receiver to the barrel. And with ammo tailored to this barrel (55gr Hornady V-Max) It shoots 1/8"- 1/4" groups all day at 100 yrds off a simple bipod. So yea, you're on the right path with your thinking.
Agree. For many it's changing up furniture and outward details while the guts should be first priority. Even with a PSA, one can upgrade key parts over time till you essentially have no PSA anymore. A layaway plan for a quality rifle where you still get access to something while engaging the development of the system.
@@Lowest_Levels Agree completely with that "layaway plan" mentality. Especially in an era where there's shortage of firearms, parts, ammo. Can't necessarily get the gun you desire, as a complete. Might have a many-months wait and who knows what sorts of legislation the current Congress will pass while you're waiting. Bird in the hand, etc.
@@seanoneil277 Definitely.
Seems like barrels are the biggest quality shifters
Thank You, I learned a lot from this video.
I need to get some of those gauges.
For real
better have deep pockets they aint cheep
@@freebird1ification quality ain't cheap
Unless you’re shooting out barrels frequently you might find it to be a better investment to buy a barrel from a company that performs similar QC proceedures on all of their barrels
@@bootgrip6 Who does that though? Its not like there is a mfg out there who you cant get a lemon from. He has had expensive barrels like LMT on here have issues.
That was an amazing video. It's been a long time since I've learned so many new things from a single video.
I have a Radical AR-15 with some 20,000 rounds on it. It's still shooting. I use it as a beater gun in tactical shooting. I'm sure your Gauges and Barrel Scope would show some amazing things!
send him the barrel
I was just in an armorer class, and the instructor had those rimless headspace gauges. Very clever idea!
Sons of Liberty?
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle Triton Training Group.
I love these videos, I remember when I first found you I forgot the account name and couldn’t find any of your videos, almost thought your account got taken down. Definitely dropping a sub this time so that doesn’t happen
could you maybe do a video on what the basic gauges people should have to check and keep their ar-15s running. would be super helpful
I have that list along with a tiered tools list in my Facebook group.
Instructor Chad i dont have Facebook so now what
Instructor Chad I don’t use FB. Would you be willing to post a list here or link to one?
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle I also don't use FB =S
SDI student here, thanks for the video.
All you really need is chamber gauges. There are three types no- go gauge ,go gauge and Field gauge . Typically you can get away with the no-go gauge and go- gauge.
Looking at the way the pin sheared, it was definitely broken during installation and not removal. You can see where the LH (from shooter's side) of the pin tore away first. You can see where it looks like the LH side of the pin sheared and the RH looks more like a tension break.
Super interesting video. My first time seeing one of there. Thanks
Eye opening, thank you so much! First time viewer and will return.
Good best smithing video . Psa looks realy good . Nice stuff.
Informative video. Thanks for posting 👍🏻
Wow... really informative. Those tools are neat!
Great demo of headspace - a bonus to the index pin issue. So much fail with that barrel.
Extremely informative video. What set of gauges do you recommend that someone should obtain prior to purchasing an AR rifle, since it appears that some manufacturers have issues with supplying not fit for use parts? Would you also provide us with a list of the various gauges that you are using. I would also like to know which manufacturer has the lowest defect rate.
Great. Now I can't sleep until I completely dissect my AR. Thanks.
Can you share some of the manufactures that are in your bin of shame? Curious if it's primarily the low cost brands or if you have any top tier barrels in there also.
@Tom Cizzle yes, every Manufacturer makes lemons. How they handle them isn't always good. Certain companies are terrible at actually diagnosing and fixing problems.
@Ell Roth
The bins of shame include many companies. The intent is not to shsme or sway who to buy from, it's only to show that parts can be terribly out of spec, be worn where the eye can't detect, or to show catastrophic issues.
Beyond PSA, few companies have a problem with what I teach.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle you're right, with even the "best" of modern machining there are bound to be lemons that slip through QC and can cause some tolerance stacking or bigger issues unless you check EVERY part made like you do... PSA and BCA are on "my" list among a couple others, basically anything cheaper than Aero is a waste of time and no-go for me, decent QC and good customer service for the ones that do "slip" through.
As a machinist myself, I can say that these lemons should be caught and batched back to the tool breakage or zeroing error.
There's no reason in a precision manufacturing setting to miss more than 1 out of 1000... Unless you just aren't employing QC or other machinists checking them off the line.
@@privatecitizen5264 when you buy cheap you are the QC. When you pay that extra hundo you are paying for an actual professional with quality gauges to check your product before it leaves the building.
I bought a PSA 10.5" Premium upper back in 2017 and it's been a great shooter. Even mounted it on a full auto post sample NFA lower and ran crazy amount of ammo out of it on a 102degree day. Never once had a problem. However, I have no doubt that the newer PSA uppers are having issues. Most people buy the bottom of the barrel cheap PSA uppers and naturally have problems with them. I do think the "premium" PSA barrels and uppers are of decent quality for the value.
@@buckaroobonsi555
I agree with most of what you say.
However PSA has stated that their "premium" barrels are made by FN and mine does have FN markings on it. The premium barrels are also chrome lined and their regular barrels (non FN) aren't.
Now, that's just higher quality parts, so the production at the same PSA facility is the same as you mentioned and could be less than favorable.
Also, BCM does have two separate options and price points. If you look online at BCM barrels on their website you'll see two different price points on most of their barrels. One is a cold hammered forged option and the other is a button forged option which is cheaper. So, this practice is not uncommon with many companies. I personally would take a FN barrel over BCM. But I would definitely take a BCM barrel over the regular non premium PSA barrel for sure. My 'go to war' AR is a BCM too. So, I don't think I'm being biased.
Great stuff! You never know what you're putting together unless you have every component inspected and data verified...
Great video! I sure learn a lot from these videos and as I expected, I have a long way to go with buying tool$.
Great video as always! Thanks for the knowledge
Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for another super video.👍
Watching your videos is like being in a Forensic Science lab. 👍
Everyone is forgetting about covid parts and this goes for anything made during covid A LOT of things got sent out with issues to keep company's afloat
Amazing video. So net, net, how do you buy a high quality barrel that leaves all these problems behind? What is estimated price? What are a couple of reliable mfrs?
Hay brother , very informative . Question , do you have a video on pen removal and replace ?
I think there was a burr on the inside of the lugs in the barrel extension that interfered with the gauge. That barrel had been shot a bit and that would be hard to do if the barrel extension was off that much to not take the gauge.
Wow. PSA seems to be pretty proud of their barrels, too.
Depending on when you get your PSA stuff, a few years back their QC was kinda crap... these days it is very solid and they WILL make any issues right... coming from a multiple PSA AR owner.... granted mine are .300AAC
Seamus RBNW Id like to have one of their GF3 AKs. They sell out fast though
Great vid brada ppl dont understand how important headspacing is
Really great video, I learned alot just from this one,thanks for taking the time to do these very interesting.
I enjoyed this video so much I subscribed. . . .
Very interesting. It seems like using a reaction rod that goes into the barrel extension would keep it from shearing off, not make it more likely. What makes it more likely?
Turning the nut puts twisting force on the receiver threads.
The fact that now you're trying to torque the extension through the index pin.
A barrel vise is many times the proper tool, but Giessle doesn't sell that....
I have a collection of oak blocks with different holes for various barrel tapers. It's not hard to hold a barrel with oak and rosin. Only action wrenches I use are for bolt guns that will only see 40-60 ft lbs.
I’d love to have a set of those gages. Most I could make if I had specs but a few would be difficult! I’m a gage maker in aerospace mfg.
Idea on how much they all cost?
Some of the best AR information on the web. Thank you!
EXCELLENT VIDEO! I learned a lot! Thanks!
i agree with what others have said, too many dudes are gunsmithing and pushing the limits (myself included) the difference is guys like myself that know and admit when we maybe broke something and others that will just blame the part that broke.
its like JDM tuning all over again
I’ve seen it several times...Improper use of reaction rod to use to tighten barrel nut instead of the receiver where the threads actually reside. Customers call in time and time again and it’s always the case.
Most interesting, thank you.
Now this is the kind of video that I i nerd out on
Thanks for sharing. I have learned quite a few things. I will be a new subscriber shortly !
Very informative video. Thanks!
Broke on initial tightening! Absolutely. Wonder where the broken pin ended up?
Thank You ...
I'd like to know more about whats in that barrel of shame
Could you list all the tools you used in this video? Would be good info for the DIY-er at home.
How did this barrel pass inspection from the manufacturer, before assembly, sale and distribution? A recall notice should go out from the manufacturer.
They dont really check stuff. Thats why they are $250 for a complete upper
About 2:07 you said you have other videos that discuss how the pin can get sheared off depending on the tool used. Well, I've looked through you video list twice and don't see a such a video listed, at least not where it is in the title. Would you please provide a link to the video? It is a good idea if you reference another video, provide a link either in the description or a pinned comment.
I make videos for AR Build Junkies RUclips Channel. It's the one that shows a bunch of reaction rod type devices as the video shot.
I enjoyed that, a lot of good useful info. I have built several ARs for myself and take it as serous as possible but now I can step it up. I'm going to use your video to find and order all the tools needed. Do you go to the trouble of fitting the bolt head to the barrel/barrel extension on builds? I have and ended up with a bunch of bolt heads that don't seem to fit well in any barrel I find.
So much for nitride! That erosion was horrible for only a few hundred rounds
I thought the same thing, It's CHF and CL for me on any sort of fighting rifle build. Military's have been using them world wide for years and I believe it's the best barrel for high round counts and over all toughness.
You take people at their word far too much. People love exaggerating details or even flat out hiding the truth. Take everything you hear from someone holding a broken anything with a few pounds of salt.
I have the exact same 10.5” 5.56 barrel with 900 rounds through it(I’ve been keeping track) and it’s just discolored from the heat, no erosion so I’m not sure what this guy did
I have a midlength 16 inch barrel from them and I've put about 2000 rounds through it with the worst of it 500 rounds in one day in pretty much one sitting. This guy had to of done something or the coating wasn't right. I've never seen a barrel erode like that it sounds like someone was doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.
A lot of what's being sold as nitride is nitride in name only. To save money, they use the same process, but at much lower temperatures, with lower concentrations of the essential chemicals.
Are there any other conditions that can cause damage to the feeding side of the barrel extension lugs like that?
I've got peening of this nature on my AR and am trying to diagnose it.
I'm the person that removed that barrel. The owner of the barrel purchased the upper without a bolt carrier assembly and he did not put it to immediate use. When he tried to use it, the bolt would not enter the barrel extension at all. I told him that the barrel was out of index from the factory and would not be usable. I said possibly a new barrel extension might work but the barrel as it stood was unusable. We then agreed to remove the barrel from the upper. I used a reaction rod. The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. I then used a dead blow mallet (not something I would usually do) and, finally, the nut moved. Regarding the front sight pins, that was as they appeared from the factory. Whether I sheared the barrel extension pin or it was like that from the factory, I couldn't tell you for sure. The impacts on the extension lugs is from the reaction rod.
Apparently that's an issue with using a reaction rod on over torqued barrel nuts. Sheering of the index pins
". The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. " i recently rebarreled a psa upper. it was a nightmare. those motherfuckers dry humped the barrel to over 100 ft lbs with no lube. i had to use the dremel god and cut to relief cuts in the barrel nut.
WHOA. Wait one second.
You're saying the lug damage was from the reaction rod and that the end user never was able to get a bolt carrier to close on this barrel.
that means the end user never fired this barrel. he couldn't have.
but the barrel is used. its been fired.
and that means PSA is recycling used parts and selling stuff as new.
Wait.. you’re saying the owner never fired a round through this barrel??
Jeremy N Yes, unfired. He bought it without a bolt carrier assembly. That’s why he did not know the bolt would not enter the barrel extension until years after. ( I don’t know exactly how long.) To be fair, I have gotten many things from PSA and they were perfectly fine. I also used to do Colt warranty service in NYC when they had warranty stations and they were not perfect either.
These barrels can be melted down and reused right? The metal isn't useless forever?
Definitely a good channel to watch for me considering I'd like to get into smithing at some point
Great video!
Isn't this like a $75 barrel? Is it even worth sending it in and having the index pin replaced?
Does anyone else get massive anxiety watching these videos thinking you need to check every part of your rifle because something MUST be wrong with it now :’d
Facts bro I’m getting my new psa upper next week and suddenly not as excited anymore 😂
Good stuff
Sub'd for knowing your stuff👍 great video thanks for posting.
Awesome Video!
With any firearm, the first thing I do at the range is fire a factory cartridge and check it for pressure signs. Repeat for total of 5 rounds, then throughly examine the cases. How could someone fire up to 500 rounds through this barrel?
I had one shear off because the factory torque on the barrel nut was waaaaaaaay too high
I have a Bear Creek 10 and a 1/2 inch barrel.Did I can't get to cycle?If you have any inputs I'd like to hear them
Wonderful. I get my new 10.5" complete upper from PSA Thursday. Not as excited as I was yesterday.
I have multiple AR builds from PSA, most of their stuff holds up! Also a big thing with PSA is if you get a bad lemon they have awesome customer service.
So after a year later how did it hold up? I’m getting my new psa upper soon 😂
Yeah how'd it do?
Had to get my PSA 10.5 out and have a look at it...
Very interesting. Wonder if PSA would send him another barrel in this case? Seems really like a manufacture or assembly issue for sure. Good stuff! Lots of great info here.
jbarker83 PSA 100% broke that index pin in the installation by over torquing the barrel nut, which is the reason why the front sight block was canted and had to have a shoddy repair done to it.
Will removing / installing a muzzle device without an action rod break the index pin?
I wouldnt necessarily scrap that barrel. Couldnt the chamber be cut slightly deeper (unless its case hardened or chromed) and just fabricate and install a stepped pin for orientation? A bit of fine deburr work on the barrel extension to clean up the raised metal. I guess I'm biased because I am a machinist by trade.
Nitride and chromed chambers eat my finishing reamers pretty fast.
Not worth the cost to the owner considering the price of the replacement.
Just curious. I noticed the locking lug area looks dirty. Doesn't it make a difference in performing all specification checks with the gauges if the barrel internal surfaces are not not clean?
I have a PSA barreled upper that also has a canted FSB. My pin holes are way uglier than this one, but they are obviously misaligned. I haven’t been able to detect any issues with the pin or lugs though.
i recently got a BCG from them and one of the lugs was half way taken off after about 300 rounds. i emailed them to send it back and after a month i haven't heard anything
You can send it to me and I'll do a video.
On the head space issue couldn't the chamber just be reamed lightly until it passes? If I am understanding how your go no go gauges work it seems the front seats on the chamber shoulder and then the lugs should clear the barrel extension. Is that correct? Granted the broken index pin and messed up taper bores are issues too. I'm just generally curious.
as someone who never worked with machining and quality control. when talking about gun manufacturing, what dictates more the end result? the tooling/machine used or the design of the firearm?
Ive been working in the manufacturing sector for more than 10 years making automotive structural components. I can tell you with confidence that the entire process is important. From design to materials to dimensional tolerances and also machine maintenance and qualified operators and good QA/QC technicians. A single problem anywhere in the process will not just go away and will only make more issues downstream. An incorrectly set counterbalance on a press will cause warpage in the parts, those out of spec parts will cause welds to blow out at the assembly cells, completed parts will not pin correctly onto the check fixtures and the entire assembly is junk. if management cant correct the problem then its only a matter of time before defective parts are put on a truck and sent to the customer. The best safeguard is good management keeping an eye on everything, on the production floor every day and engaged in every aspect of production.
Damn you almost had to do one on my PSA 10.5. 😬
I wonder if the owner was trying to torque their barrel in and got overzealous. Shearing that pin and all
I bought a PSA barrel for a build project. Out of the box I found the index pin was severely canted. Sent it back for an exchange. Replacement barrel arrived and its index pin was also visibly canted, but not as bad as the 1st barrel so I figured I would give it a try. After the install I found the front sight post was not aligned vertically and the barrel extension was not clocked correctly causing the bolt head to crash on the extension.
I removed the flash hider, front sight post and barrel nut/delta ring from the barrel and threw the barrel in the trash. Never again, PSA, never again.
Could one run a 5.56 chamber reamer in a barrel such as this that indicated a short throat? I understand that it wouldn’t be a useful barrel with the pin sheared but on a regular barrel with no other problems?
Question could the head space be fixed with a chamber reamer?
After watching all of your videos I’m scared to buy anything!
What tool do you recommend for barrel nut installation/removal if the reaction rod is a no go?
Yeah, I'm confused...I thought the reaction rod WAS the ideal tool, instead of clamping the receiver into a block and tightening the barrel nut that way, which would (in my mind) possibly torque the receiver and put wayyy more stress on the pin and the notch. Hopefully we get an answer.
I think the issue was the over-torquing, rather than the tool itself. Over-torquing will cause problems, no matter what tool is used. The torque gets applied somewhere.
Midwest ind URR, upper receiver rod. It has a sail that indexes into the charging handle slot
Sturmhewehr556. I prefer the Midwest URR. The sail prevents the upper from rotating against the index pin.
Instructor Chad Thanks
I have an AR 10 ten inch upper that Ive put together and I’m having issues with the bolt seating properly. I have to use forward assist to put it in place. Not sure if the gas tub e is not seating proper on bolt carrier or bolt is not seating well with chamber. Result is cases are not extracting properly causing occasional double feeds. I hate to speed $189 on LMT double extraction pin bolt if the problem is hopefully simpler
What’d you end up doing? Was gonna comment if it’s not the gas tube nor a mistimed barrel, maybe the gas key in your bolt is crooked or probably just need to replace the BCG as a whole
Chad, I'm confused...at 1.43 you say if someone uses a reaction rod there's likely to be a bunch of force transferred to the pin if the barrel nut is over tightened. I thought the whole purpose of a reaction rod was to eliminate the majority of the torque between the pin & upper receiver, essentially allowing you to tighten the down nut & snug it to the receiver to spec against the reaction rod vs. putting the receiver in a block and tightening the nut against it directly. What am I missing?
The reaction rod doesn’t necessarily keep the receiver from rotating under high torque, like the Midwest Ind. rod. Watch his video with AR Build junkie regarding the matter for more insight.
Carly,
The reaction rod is will allow damage to the index pin if not used carefully. I have a video I made for AR Build Junkie that addresses this topic. Check out their RUclips channel.
ABlindMan1
No, it is the opposite. The reaction rod prevents the barrel from twisting, but when force is applied to the nut, it wants to turn the receiver. The only thing stopping the receiver from turning with the nut is the index pin. Reaction rods are best suited for installing muzzle devices so that the barrel will not twist.
You have any videos on fixing excessive wobble in an upper and lower? I dont want to use rubber bands. I've got a Ar-10 with more wobble than I'm comfortable with.