Big ups to the coconut girl and the Indian girl for being so open and pointing out the elephant in the room. Big ups to everyone who opens their eyes to what is really going on in this country. 🙌
These South Africans can do what they like in their own country, they can tear down every single statue of Rhodes or they can erect thousands more of him... I only have grievances with some of them preaching to Britain to tear down Rhodes' statues too. And there is even a S.African student over here demanding we take the statues down, which is just laughable.
Ajay Rawat I'm not. I just stating my mind, and the fact that the South African student in question has no right or power to tell us who we can and cannot have a statue of in our own country.
+tcpgblizzard Yep its hard sympathising with the oppressed people when you "britain" are the benefitiaries of the colonialisation of almost the entire world. Britain even colonialised USA so the next question to ask is when will your queen that girl Elizaberth going to bring back our stolen gold.
Ignorance like yours has led to one of the greatest countries in the world becoming one of the worst. You should be fighting degenerate communism In your own country, South Africa is just a step ahead of the States, be ready for a catastrophic collapse if you continue to buy into Woke degeneracy.
@@haikuu7059 they will never be able to correctly answer thet because they have appropriated the word to social constructs that they uncomfortable with hence why its under this comment. That word has 100% moved away from its original intent.
What about statues of non-whites who also were responsible of colonialism, slavery, genocide etc, who still have not been removed? What about the statues of Timur, a turkic-mongol conqureror who massacred, genocided and enslaved millions of indians, arabs, persians, armenians, georgians and europeans? Or what about the statues of Luis de Carvajal, a sephradic conquistador who conquored Northern Mexico and enslaved thousands of American Natives? Why haven't these statues been removed? Why are we just focusing on removing status of white slave traders and racists?
+Laitalafraise I hear what you are saying. I think a certain level of clarity comes to Africans (including in the diaspora) who live with whites such as in South Africa and the USA. These Africans see white supremacy in the face. As opposed to Africans in all black "countries" where problems can be easily blamed on the black leadership without understanding that that leadership is often times simply serving as overseers of white supremacy on behalf of the colonial power, in keeping with the "independent" farce.
That vice completely owned everyone present in the venue , especially with his ending piece that left even that biased host unable to respond to such a rational and well thought out comment. Well done vice.
Its funny how you complain about racism as black people in big cities and Top Institutions but none of you after getting those positions and qualifications you doing nothing for your own home lands. You become experienced professionals but none of u has ever worked any small projects in the rural areas instead when u visiting your homelands u act ignorant coconuts bragging about your nice cars and take advantage of poor young girls. Why can't we as black people learn to produce for ourselves? why can't we work with people from rural areas and help them improve their skills
But it goes further than just producing for ourselves. We don't consume our own products merely because they're more expensive than imported products and services who have been subsidized by their countries. We don't trust what is locally produced by our own SME's. We need to be vigilant about supporting black owned businesses and black owned products.
@@sekoukasimu7247 you seem very racist. Do you know that Indians are NOT colonizers and was brought to South Africa by the British as farm labourers? Indians and India have no history of colonization anywhere in the world so get that fact clear in your head.
@@patmunoo887 I know that Mahatma Gandhi was a member of the South African Army during the struggle against Apartheid! And that he and millions of his fellow Indians aided and abetted the settlers!! How about those facts?!!!
@@patmunoo887 But India and Indians have a long tradition of oppressing the Afrikans in India with your caste system! I am well aware of the plight of the Dravidians and the Untouchables!!! Now how about those facts, not opinions?!!!
I think Habib is correct when it comes to senior academic management. In the past not many black people could afford to go and get PhD's, the shift will be more visible in the next 10-15 years. As a black South African I understand what #rhodesmustfall stands for however I will not stand for Racism against white people. South Africa is for everyone and the only way we can all be equal is by allowing the system to do justice in a non anti-white manner.
+Kolor Meyellow hello sister, here's a description of racism that I found helpful: a system of oppression affecting all areas of life. In order to have a system of oppression of whites, blacks would need to have power. Currently, as you are well aware, whites hold the power to hire, jail, criminalize, manufacture media interpretations of, reward, punish, give loans to, deny loans to, etc... blacks. The reverse is not true for blacks as a group toward whites a group. Also, the same argument of "not enough qualified blacks" continues to be made in institutions such as Harvard. Check out Professor Derrick Bell's interviews and writings.
ug34989 what do you call power? What do blacks as a group have the power to do with resources and industries such as mining, uranium, petrol, copper, food transformation, education, banking, pharmaceuticals, etc? How do you compare that with the power you see whites as having or not having in those same fields?
2:15 sounds like Mao’s cultural revolution Change doesn’t come over night and focusing on superficial things like a statue is an easy target instead of building the future, that’s the Africans problem, being excellent at bringing down and dismantling but not so much at creating and building functioning institutions
As a south African, I feel for the future of this country, our youth want everything for free, I am a student in-debt, I have 2 jobs which allows me the Right to go to University, Yes the statue can be taken down but lets us not forget that if it wasn't for the whites we would be herding cattle, growing crops and being bush men, we would not be wearing cloths, using cellphones, traveling in cars and on planes and having what we have today, we have become greedy and want everything for free but not worry about what its going to cost to others(Society)!!.
+gerrald Whether you like it or not, if human rights are violated or the Government makes it legal to force ownership off of people, the West will place in sanctions. Now, you may think that´s racist, but it´s the reality. Zimbabwe sank because of sanctions and so did the Apartheid regime. The global village makes and breaks countries. Apartheid´s fall had much more to do with Western sanctions than the ANC. SA will sink immediately if we can´t export platinum or coal which embargoes will do. This sinking may be fine with you, if you can make more money for yourself in a country like that, rather than this country today, so I understand you. Black people can take whatever they want - laws can change and make taking things legal, but that is very, very, very unlikely. Your leadership. Your black ANC knows this will be a disaster. They had a 2/3 majority in the 90s and 2000s but never made those changes, because they know this. They lost 2/3 now and don´t rely on the EFF. The DA are more likely to come into power than the EFF. Also, ¨the whites¨ (as if it´s like one big family and we´re all the same... For Fucks Sake) will be fine even if that happens. ¨the whites¨ have training/experience/expertise/skils, money in the bank and assets that you can´t physically take (foreign bank accounts, investments, dividends, stock investments etc). Many ¨whites¨ have ancestral visas and those that don´t have the skills to get jobs in other countries. If it´s really bad, like the way you said ¨take shit¨ then they can even claim assylum. (Again, the kickout won´t happen, so this is theory) Therefore, you see, the only people this will really screw in the long run is black people... maybe not in the first 3 years, but after that for the rest of the time the country is around for. PS. Iḿ not racist. I don´t care about ¨the whites¨. Rhodes´ statue should have come down , he was horrible, and our problems in SA comes down to upskilling and educating our kids. We need to produce more value (create products, businesses, etc) and therefore create more tax to create wellfare for education, health etc. . This is omething the ANC has really failed at. But itś much, much easier to say ¨THE WHITES¨ and point fingers than it is to run a country in a globally competitive market. Good luck my black brother. You´re going to need it. Show less
I love this show, this gives us from outside of SA an overview of the way people think in South Africa!! One thing that actually REALLY bothers me is that the regulator or jornalist isn't being neutral at all ant that is actually pushing people not to express themselfs fully as they get shout down by the crowd an the journalist herslef.
Since this conversation was largely about "decolonizing" minds, universities,etc. let me at least comment on the university aspect. First off, personally I believe that the notion of decolonizing one's mind is useful for classroom discussion and debates elsewhere but it's rarely articulated how you do it in practice. Depending on the country in question, the most direct way is by not privileging things written in or by the language of the colonizer. Sounds good and relatively easy to do right? Wrong. You can easily decolonize some subjects immediately but for others it will take a significant amount of time to produce high quality material in that language. That itself is the result of hundreds of years (in some cases) of colonialism. What about the case of getting more black students into universities? The head guy from WITS tried to explain but people who aren't in academia simply can't get it, especially people who are young and haven't done enough yet in professional spaces. University professors are their own club with strict standards of who enters. Are some of them racist? Sure. But that's not the primary issue here. Like any black man knows, you must be twice as good to get the same job as a white man. While somewhat true in the world of academia, standards for research productivity and whatnot for professors are kept high because universities want to maintain their elite status which enables them to get more alumni donations and funding from government and philanthropic foundations. At least that's how it works in the US. South Africa still functions in many ways on a Western model, so I assume that's the way it works there. Bottom line is that you need more black students in the graduate student pipeline if you want more black professors. And you really need a lot in the pipeline because many who enter will still chose not to become a professor because they will realize that they can make a lot more money elsewhere.
I love how the presenter herself said .... will taking the statue down actually improve education among Africans. NO! take down every statue .... watch African children still struggle. BTW that girl that wants to remove all colonialism should stop speaking English because that is a European language.
Your argument is very stupid. Do you think she doesn't have her African language? She could speak it alright but you wouldn't understand her. Don't sound as if Africans are walking about happy that they speak English. This language was forced on our people so I don't see your point except as another entitled white man angry at having the power structures being challenged. Well,you're in for a shock my friend because this is only getting started
@@LeslieAnneCookSustaita Name one country in the world which has never been robbed and genocided country. Or tell us one country whose economy that is not controlled and pushed down by the same whites. This movement is about fighting that and you can whin as you want
Political freedom which we saw in 1994 did not translate to economic freedom. Get this straight guys. I am not a politician but truth should be told. If you want to see that a white man is not ready to share economic power with a black person, look at what happened in Zimbabwe. The white farmers were given a chance to conduct farm wiling buyer and willing seller and none white farmer came forth. When Robert Mugabe government then used force, the friends of the white farmers responded by cutting credit lines. Why, because zimbabweans had taken a step towards economic freedom. What i understand is whether, the land reform was conducted on competency bases, no white man was going to be willing to share economic power with a black person. We can talk about decolonisation but as long as white people are beneficiaries of a system they will never freely give of economic power. Any black person who is a millionaire is a friend of a few feudalistic white people. We are having debate with people with whom we extended a forgiving hand but they have a shorthand for real sharing of economic power and reconciliation.I think we as black people we have good hearts to accommodate and let's not think that there shall come a time where a white person will give off power merely by a dialogue, that will never happen. Any
The Indian professor hit the nail on the head.... white and Indian families had the generational wealth and family resources to fill in the gaps in the lack of public resources ...... blacks obviously didn’t .:... the black government should spend more money on public resources for blacks.
White and Indian families have "generational wealth" because whites and Indians built generational wealth. What are "public resources"? Do you think money drops out of the sky? "Public resources" are everything white settlers have built since they arrived, and the taxes they've paid for the last 30 years. There's nothing stopping Africans building wealth besides their own limitations and failings.
Academia must be politics-free. You can't expect to have black professors when the system (your government) does not produce them. Ask Zuma to fund research, and you will have black professors.
The media has been bias towards Rhodes. Constantly hating this man for modernising a country. Every great man has their flaws. Churchill wasnt perfect, Mandela ran a terror group which killed civilians and Rhoded did a couple of massacres. But the differene between Rhodes and Mandela is that Rhodes actually achieved something great. He turned an Isolated country into a prosperous autonomous colony. What did Mandela do? Oh yeah create a failed welfare state and let aids spread like wildfire.
That’s not the point. The point is that Cecil John Rhodes’ ideas, actions and values are not ones that the society upholds. In fact, our society rejects them.
I understand the hurt inflicted on black people in the past, but what about the other minorities who suffered alongside black people. Why are we being overlooked? I also understand the Rhodes must fall initiative, but what nobody is talking about is the violence displayed by certain protestors towards innocent people? Why strike a blade in the name of past wrongs whilst causing wrongs now?
The architects of apartheid should have known that all these racial problems would eventually surface. Majority rules. The Masses and their interests must be Paramount.
Excuse me? It is common knowledge that blacks get into university far easier than whites in SA. In my class there were 60 blacks, 20 coloureds and Indians and 10 whites. The coloureds, Indians and whites all clearly deserved to be there. Most of the blacks seemed new to any learning institution whatsoever. Blacks are basically forced into universities over whites, even if their Matric scores are lower. And blacks still claim to be underprivileged? If the FMF were serious about anything they would demand better quality primary and secondary education instead, most of the poor blacks are under prepared when coming to university. Improving the foundations will allow SA to have a better university student body, unlike the one we have now that wants to "decolonise"everything they can get their hands on.
shagadelic3000 do you know what is the real problem? the problem is the poor education from primary to high school before faculty, it is very hard for them to even speak proper English even from the beginning.
South Africans need to build new universities for themselves where they have the chance have their own text books in their language about their history and traditions.
Lol. Good luck with that. Look at the "houses" they build in their slums. Everything worthwhile in SA was built by European colonists. And "native" (most are immigrants) SAs think they're entitled to steal and/or destroy it.
The Vice-Chancellor's parting words well encapsulates this discussion. Some so called "progressives" just want to see this country burn. Engagement on all levels is very important. Add Zimbabwe to that list.
Where are the representatives of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (AWB) and the Red October Movement? It would have been interesting to have them as guests here!
This is my first time hearing about Nelson Mandel saying that Cecil Rhodes would be any different than he had already been. However, it is a shockingly absurd statement!
As long as white people have a grip on the economic and financial sectors there will never be and equality in Africa. I bet no white person would want to share economic and financial power with a Black man not only in South Africa but world over. The least a white man can give you is a director or CEO job with a wage, a big car and a house but not the right to own economic and financial means. So africa lets start by being aggressive in ensuring that Africa becomes a home independently for Africans with full economic and financial power. Let's not boot lick european and american funds for our own growth. For those who are in leadership you have the mandate to represent the people of Africa not white man investments and and so called foreign direct investment. Asia did it why can't we.
This is the most racist debate I’ve ever heard in my life. Every sentence had the words black, white, racism, etc… we’re talking about a statue to an individual, a great man. I didn’t hear anyone talk about what he has done.
Would South Africans have been satisfied being left to wear their skirts and continue to have lived in their village huts? Please don’t ignore the contributions of the British but at the same time the British need to acknowledge equality among everyone for the new civilization they’ve helped to create. Black South Africans need to educate themselves and open their own institutions if necessary now that they have the education and ability.
You know in my point .....an ideal education is one that's begins at an early ege .....example....if you want your child to learn respect you don't wait untill whatever age ...you instill respect in em.......I for see a country that one day going to produce an engineer that was equipped with engineerial skills from grade 3 up to diploma/degree .level......i for see country where we learn to invent,produce not to maintain....
I am not being terse, I really want to discuss this further, academia is a field that sorts it's own out based on skill. Professors etc are recruited on skill right? You don't just get Phds. It takes time to research and time to establish - you can't play around with academic appointments - these people are the guardians of our futures....
These debates are so fixed. The panellists chosen are not prepared to engage in debate but rather, wait for the opportunity to prove their "rightness". What a joke.
John 8:43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…
That must be the only thing you have unknowingly gotten right. Except find out the difference between Hell and Heaven. If you believe in hell you must know that the opposite also exists. May God bless you.
Truth should stand as it should be,thanks to white South African lady for pointing out the implications of Rhodes past activities on black life as his statue brings the painful memories of the past.
Past activities? You mean like building the entire country? Why are they tearing down the statue but not the university he built? These violent anti-white racists want to have their cake and eat it too-- they want to claim that colonialism was bad and evil but still keep/steal everything colonialism built, which is to say everything good or civilised in the country. Tear down the statues but don't tear down the buildings, the hospitals, the universities, the infrastructure, the wealth, the democracy, the institutions, the libraries, the EVERYTHING that wasn't there before white Europeans arrived and built it. Positive cultures build, negative cultures destroy.
Big ups to the coconut girl and the Indian girl for being so open and pointing out the elephant in the room. Big ups to everyone who opens their eyes to what is really going on in this country. 🙌
Where would South Africa be without colonization?
I'm confused. Is the mediator lady in the debate or mediating? As a mediator, your opinion doesn't belong in a debate.
I guess that’s a white concept they haven’t developed yet
These South Africans can do what they like in their own country, they can tear down every single statue of Rhodes or they can erect thousands more of him... I only have grievances with some of them preaching to Britain to tear down Rhodes' statues too. And there is even a S.African student over here demanding we take the statues down, which is just laughable.
Ajay Rawat I'm not. I just stating my mind, and the fact that the South African student in question has no right or power to tell us who we can and cannot have a statue of in our own country.
+tcpgblizzard Yep its hard sympathising with the oppressed people when you "britain" are the benefitiaries of the colonialisation of almost the entire world. Britain even colonialised USA so the next question to ask is when will your queen that girl Elizaberth going to bring back our stolen gold.
Dumisani D Stop trying to sound like such a victim. It's pathetic.
Ajay Rawat That he's overreacting, yes.
Victor Vic Nice to see some more rational people in this thread.
As a black American woman, l throughly enjoyed seeing this debate. Beautiful intelligent black people openly expressing what they believe🖤😘
Ignorance like yours has led to one of the greatest countries in the world becoming one of the worst. You should be fighting degenerate communism In your own country, South Africa is just a step ahead of the States, be ready for a catastrophic collapse if you continue to buy into Woke degeneracy.
@@trentbusta1 what's your definition of "woke"?
Where are driving to ?
@@haikuu7059 they will never be able to correctly answer thet because they have appropriated the word to social constructs that they uncomfortable with hence why its under this comment. That word has 100% moved away from its original intent.
Got a horrible feeling that this isn't going to end well.
It didn't.
As much as I disagree with Ernst Roets, but I have to concede that he is a logical & respectful debate participant
What about statues of non-whites who also were responsible of colonialism, slavery, genocide etc, who still have not been removed? What about the statues of Timur, a turkic-mongol conqureror who massacred, genocided and enslaved millions of indians, arabs, persians, armenians, georgians and europeans? Or what about the statues of Luis de Carvajal, a sephradic conquistador who conquored Northern Mexico and enslaved thousands of American Natives? Why haven't these statues been removed? Why are we just focusing on removing status of white slave traders and racists?
Biased debate as expected..even the host..I'm happy with how Prof. Adam Habib defend his points with valid reasoning towards stereotype individuals...
If only Africans in general were thinking more like South Africans !..
+Laitalafraise I hear what you are saying. I think a certain level of clarity comes to Africans (including in the diaspora) who live with whites such as in South Africa and the USA. These Africans see white supremacy in the face. As opposed to Africans in all black "countries" where problems can be easily blamed on the black leadership without understanding that that leadership is often times simply serving as overseers of white supremacy on behalf of the colonial power, in keeping with the "independent" farce.
Moni Tano I could not have said it better !
@Swazi Prince who's kicking white people out of South Africa?
Mmm
23:36 "I think its very upsetting that Mandela's voice is continually used to silence black voices'" the BEST quote from this debate
3 years later, but this is the same with Martin Luther King
im not south african but these big debate videos are excellent and so educational.
yes interesting to see how racism discussed elsewhere in the world
This debate was pointless
Was not a debate. It was a crowd pooing anything they did not agree with.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DUMBASS YOU UNDERSTAND FOKOL.
There shall be no minority and there shall be no majority but there shall be people...
29:28 wow! How much more clear he has to say that he is for “black supremacy” to make it at least uncomfortable for SA?!
"throw more poo" - future Presidential material right there.
That vice completely owned everyone present in the venue , especially with his ending piece that left even that biased host unable to respond to such a rational and well thought out comment. Well done vice.
Defacing the statue he should be jailed end of story.
Its funny how you complain about racism as black people in big cities and Top Institutions but none of you after getting those positions and qualifications you doing nothing for your own home lands. You become experienced professionals but none of u has ever worked any small projects in the rural areas instead when u visiting your homelands u act ignorant coconuts bragging about your nice cars and take advantage of poor young girls. Why can't we as black people learn to produce for ourselves? why can't we work with people from rural areas and help them improve their skills
Very true!!!
But it goes further than just producing for ourselves. We don't consume our own products merely because they're more expensive than imported products and services who have been subsidized by their countries. We don't trust what is locally produced by our own SME's. We need to be vigilant about supporting black owned businesses and black owned products.
@@sekoukasimu7247 you seem very racist.
Do you know that Indians are NOT colonizers and was brought to South Africa by the British as farm labourers?
Indians and India have no history of colonization anywhere in the world so get that fact clear in your head.
@@patmunoo887 I know that Mahatma Gandhi was a member of the South African Army during the struggle against Apartheid! And that he and millions of his fellow Indians aided and abetted the settlers!! How about those facts?!!!
@@patmunoo887 But India and Indians have a long tradition of oppressing the Afrikans in India with your caste system! I am well aware of the plight of the Dravidians and the Untouchables!!! Now how about those facts, not opinions?!!!
I think Habib is correct when it comes to senior academic management. In the past not many black people could afford to go and get PhD's, the shift will be more visible in the next 10-15 years. As a black South African I understand what #rhodesmustfall stands for however I will not stand for Racism against white people. South Africa is for everyone and the only way we can all be equal is by allowing the system to do justice in a non anti-white manner.
+Kolor Meyellow hello sister, here's a description of racism that I found helpful: a system of oppression affecting all areas of life. In order to have a system of oppression of whites, blacks would need to have power. Currently, as you are well aware, whites hold the power to hire, jail, criminalize, manufacture media interpretations of, reward, punish, give loans to, deny loans to, etc... blacks. The reverse is not true for blacks as a group toward whites a group.
Also, the same argument of "not enough qualified blacks" continues to be made in institutions such as Harvard. Check out Professor Derrick Bell's interviews and writings.
+Moni Tano By your own definition then, only blacks can be racist in SA, since they hold all the power there now.
ug34989 what do you call power? What do blacks as a group have the power to do with resources and industries such as mining, uranium, petrol, copper, food transformation, education, banking, pharmaceuticals, etc? How do you compare that with the power you see whites as having or not having in those same fields?
Thank you for revealing who you are. I do not converse with white supremacists.
Moni Tano
Well, your loss. That's why you black supremacists are all so insular in your thinking.
2:15 sounds like Mao’s cultural revolution
Change doesn’t come over night and focusing on superficial things like a statue is an easy target instead of building the future, that’s the Africans problem, being excellent at bringing down and dismantling but not so much at creating and building functioning institutions
As a south African, I feel for the future of this country, our youth want everything for free, I am a student in-debt, I have 2 jobs which allows me the Right to go to University, Yes the statue can be taken down but lets us not forget that if it wasn't for the whites we would be herding cattle, growing crops and being bush men, we would not be wearing cloths, using cellphones, traveling in cars and on planes and having what we have today, we have become greedy and want everything for free but not worry about what its going to cost to others(Society)!!.
I hope your mind is soon freed from the shackles of internalised racism and white supremacy.
Black South Africans stop being so nice. It is getting irritating. Take back Africa by force
+Ultra Rare Pepe DO NOT STEAL ... eh lol ye we did hahah
+gerrald Whether you like it or not, if human rights are violated or the Government makes it legal to force ownership off of people, the West will place in sanctions. Now, you may think that´s racist, but it´s the reality.
Zimbabwe sank because of sanctions and so did the Apartheid regime. The global village makes and breaks countries. Apartheid´s fall had much more to do with Western sanctions than the ANC. SA will sink immediately if we can´t export platinum or coal which embargoes will do. This sinking may be fine with you, if you can make more money for yourself in a country like that, rather than this country today, so I understand you.
Black people can take whatever they want - laws can change and make taking things legal, but that is very, very, very unlikely. Your leadership. Your black ANC knows this will be a disaster. They had a 2/3 majority in the 90s and 2000s but never made those changes, because they know this. They lost 2/3 now and don´t rely on the EFF. The DA are more likely to come into power than the EFF.
Also, ¨the whites¨ (as if it´s like one big family and we´re all the same... For Fucks Sake) will be fine even if that happens. ¨the whites¨ have training/experience/expertise/skils, money in the bank and assets that you can´t physically take (foreign bank accounts, investments, dividends, stock investments etc). Many ¨whites¨ have ancestral visas and those that don´t have the skills to get jobs in other countries. If it´s really bad, like the way you said ¨take shit¨ then they can even claim assylum. (Again, the kickout won´t happen, so this is theory)
Therefore, you see, the only people this will really screw in the long run is black people... maybe not in the first 3 years, but after that for the rest of the time the country is around for.
PS. Iḿ not racist. I don´t care about ¨the whites¨. Rhodes´ statue should have come down , he was horrible, and our problems in SA comes down to upskilling and educating our kids. We need to produce more value (create products, businesses, etc) and therefore create more tax to create wellfare for education, health etc. . This is omething the ANC has really failed at. But itś much, much easier to say ¨THE WHITES¨ and point fingers than it is to run a country in a globally competitive market.
Good luck my black brother. You´re going to need it.
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that fine
They sound the same here in the Usa Gimmi Gimmi minez minez take take
It was like having a statue of Hitler at the university of Tel Aviv.
@David Miles who exactly
Hitler's was much worse
Masechaba is such an eloquent presenter and facilitator
Any former colony I guarantee this conversation happens:
"Hey the toilets don't work who should we blame?"
"We blame Whitey"
"bix nood"
no one says whitey
Indians usually blame it on the spicy food.
No blame the anc and f off
She was actually quite a disrespectful host. She ran with a specific agenda. This was a very poor debate.
Burn with superior
I love this show, this gives us from outside of SA an overview of the way people think in South Africa!! One thing that actually REALLY bothers me is that the regulator or jornalist isn't being neutral at all ant that is actually pushing people not to express themselfs fully as they get shout down by the crowd an the journalist herslef.
She is a victim too.
Black youths of SA are ready to move beyond mandella type things.
And the winner is: Adam Habib!
Since this conversation was largely about "decolonizing" minds, universities,etc. let me at least comment on the university aspect. First off, personally I believe that the notion of decolonizing one's mind is useful for classroom discussion and debates elsewhere but it's rarely articulated how you do it in practice. Depending on the country in question, the most direct way is by not privileging things written in or by the language of the colonizer. Sounds good and relatively easy to do right? Wrong. You can easily decolonize some subjects immediately but for others it will take a significant amount of time to produce high quality material in that language. That itself is the result of hundreds of years (in some cases) of colonialism. What about the case of getting more black students into universities? The head guy from WITS tried to explain but people who aren't in academia simply can't get it, especially people who are young and haven't done enough yet in professional spaces. University professors are their own club with strict standards of who enters. Are some of them racist? Sure. But that's not the primary issue here. Like any black man knows, you must be twice as good to get the same job as a white man. While somewhat true in the world of academia, standards for research productivity and whatnot for professors are kept high because universities want to maintain their elite status which enables them to get more alumni donations and funding from government and philanthropic foundations. At least that's how it works in the US. South Africa still functions in many ways on a Western model, so I assume that's the way it works there. Bottom line is that you need more black students in the graduate student pipeline if you want more black professors. And you really need a lot in the pipeline because many who enter will still chose not to become a professor because they will realize that they can make a lot more money elsewhere.
Africa should get royalties on every natural resource especially diamonds sold
Ahem, african countries where are diamond' mines
I love how the presenter herself said .... will taking the statue down actually improve education among Africans. NO! take down every statue .... watch African children still struggle. BTW that girl that wants to remove all colonialism should stop speaking English because that is a European language.
Your argument is very stupid. Do you think she doesn't have her African language? She could speak it alright but you wouldn't understand her. Don't sound as if Africans are walking about happy that they speak English. This language was forced on our people so I don't see your point except as another entitled white man angry at having the power structures being challenged. Well,you're in for a shock my friend because this is only getting started
I wonder if any of these people know Africans had thier own colleges and universities long before we met whites?
@@LeslieAnneCookSustaita Name one country in the world which has never been robbed and genocided country. Or tell us one country whose economy that is not controlled and pushed down by the same whites. This movement is about fighting that and you can whin as you want
@David Miles Haven't you heard of Timbuktu which your ancestors stole and destroyed it's documents
Timbuktu
😂😂haha Show us the infrastructure please. Shame so sorry you didn’t know.
I'm watching for the second time, this time around just to see shaeera Kalla!! I heart this woman's bravery and leadership.
Political freedom which we saw in 1994 did not translate to economic freedom. Get this straight guys. I am not a politician but truth should be told. If you want to see that a white man is not ready to share economic power with a black person, look at what happened in Zimbabwe. The white farmers were given a chance to conduct farm wiling buyer and willing seller and none white farmer came forth. When Robert Mugabe government then used force, the friends of the white farmers responded by cutting credit lines. Why, because zimbabweans had taken a step towards economic freedom. What i understand is whether, the land reform was conducted on competency bases, no white man was going to be willing to share economic power with a black person. We can talk about decolonisation but as long as white people are beneficiaries of a system they will never freely give of economic power. Any black person who is a millionaire is a friend of a few feudalistic white people. We are having debate with people with whom we extended a forgiving hand but they have a shorthand for real sharing of economic power and reconciliation.I think we as black people we have good hearts to accommodate and let's not think that there shall come a time where a white person will give off power merely by a dialogue, that will never happen. Any
Economic freedom is earned. You privileged brats are too young to understand that.
The white dude kept embarrassing himself throughout the show
Panashe Chigumadzi is one attractive woman. "Decolonization is also for white people"
Amen
WHO THE FUCK COLONIZED THEM GENIUS.
There are more intellectual debates here than in parliament. smh
yeah I know right
yeah I know right
This debate was pointless
Proff Ndlozi should have been in this debate
The Witz VC shut the crowd up with the fact that there are only 2 black geophysicists in SA. lol
The host was kind of unbiased when probing some of the guests though.
The Indian professor hit the nail on the head.... white and Indian families had the generational wealth and family resources to fill in the gaps in the lack of public resources ...... blacks obviously didn’t .:... the black government should spend more money on public resources for blacks.
White and Indian families have "generational wealth" because whites and Indians built generational wealth.
What are "public resources"? Do you think money drops out of the sky? "Public resources" are everything white settlers have built since they arrived, and the taxes they've paid for the last 30 years. There's nothing stopping Africans building wealth besides their own limitations and failings.
Academia must be politics-free. You can't expect to have black professors when the system (your government) does not produce them. Ask Zuma to fund research, and you will have black professors.
It has to be earned! You must not change the standards. Demand the best all round!
The media has been bias towards Rhodes. Constantly hating this man for modernising a country. Every great man has their flaws. Churchill wasnt perfect, Mandela ran a terror group which killed civilians and Rhoded did a couple of massacres. But the differene between Rhodes and Mandela is that Rhodes actually achieved something great. He turned an Isolated country into a prosperous autonomous colony. What did Mandela do? Oh yeah create a failed welfare state and let aids spread like wildfire.
Students all over the world seem intent on killing debate, using long sentences and rolling their eyes.
Funny to have a host thats just one side of the subject
You may want to destroy statues but you cannot erase history.
That’s not the point. The point is that Cecil John Rhodes’ ideas, actions and values are not ones that the society upholds. In fact, our society rejects them.
Victimhood
It's great to witness great and intelligent African minds, keep it up.
Four years later and the mistakes just got bigger. Just like the professor said 😬
I see, Coloureds are allowed in this debate but they were not invited to the racism debate. Why is that?
I give a bells to that white guy. He stood his ground amongst the majority.
Where is the debate on Mandela Must Fall?
+Sekou Kasimu Next 50 years to come
+Phathu Phathu right
Very soon because he's a sellout
I understand the hurt inflicted on black people in the past, but what about the other minorities who suffered alongside black people. Why are we being overlooked? I also understand the Rhodes must fall initiative, but what nobody is talking about is the violence displayed by certain protestors towards innocent people? Why strike a blade in the name of past wrongs whilst causing wrongs now?
The architects of apartheid should have known that all these racial problems would eventually surface. Majority rules. The Masses and their interests must be Paramount.
Such a revolutionary debate however an extremely biased facilitator.
"Blacks first" is racist
Excuse me? It is common knowledge that blacks get into university far easier than whites in SA. In my class there were 60 blacks, 20 coloureds and Indians and 10 whites. The coloureds, Indians and whites all clearly deserved to be there. Most of the blacks seemed new to any learning institution whatsoever. Blacks are basically forced into universities over whites, even if their Matric scores are lower. And blacks still claim to be underprivileged? If the FMF were serious about anything they would demand better quality primary and secondary education instead, most of the poor blacks are under prepared when coming to university. Improving the foundations will allow SA to have a better university student body, unlike the one we have now that wants to "decolonise"everything they can get their hands on.
shagadelic3000 do you know what is the real problem? the problem is the poor education from primary to high school before faculty, it is very hard for them to even speak proper English even from the beginning.
GUGU ONPOINT That's exactly what I said.
OK thank you
Excellent points from young scholars. Higher Ed students of color in the US must watch this! I would like to know post debate results.
Lol at least they had a really non-biased mediator....
/s
South Africans need to build new universities for themselves where they have the chance have their own text books in their language about their history and traditions.
Lol. Good luck with that. Look at the "houses" they build in their slums. Everything worthwhile in SA was built by European colonists. And "native" (most are immigrants) SAs think they're entitled to steal and/or destroy it.
I love Masechaba but right now I’m disappointed in how bias she was in facilitating this debate.
The host was a bit biased to the white guy
Nah... Her objectivity is only criticized by subjectivity within one's opinion.
wow someone thinks he smar shame
The host is supposed to be neutral.
The Vice-Chancellor's parting words well encapsulates this discussion. Some so called "progressives" just want to see this country burn. Engagement on all levels is very important. Add Zimbabwe to that list.
South Africa sefapano sa montsho. Even the continent of Africa is named after a european white man.
Please come and help us i. Zimbabwe to remove his filty TB riddled remains from our sacred Njelele matobo hills
why is this even a debate? to look civilized?
wtf were you listening to genius.;
Lol they clap at everything
truth and reconciliation continues......
Where are the representatives of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (AWB) and the Red October Movement? It would have been interesting to have them as guests here!
12:56 I don't agree with this guy, but that sarcastic comment had me on the floor laughing
Nelson mandela was a wise man. She feels sofacated, just like any one else with a opposing view?
This is my first time hearing about Nelson Mandel saying that Cecil Rhodes would be any different than he had already been. However, it is a shockingly absurd statement!
The afriforum guy is arrogant
Powerful you mean-misappropriated.
This host was based and was against him
Aren’t debate moderators supposed to be impartial?
Yes blacks must take centerstage in terms of social and economic policies.
Anger is just.this man should fall and fall hard money should be redistributed
What happened to Africa's greatest power. That was once a great nation.
At 11:45 "There are people LIVING in that town who have BEEN MURDERED..." Wait--what?
Had been...
This host or mediator is a disaster. She is taking sides instead of mediating
ANC takes no responsiblilty for any of its failures and all i hear from the blacks is give give give.
As long as white people have a grip on the economic and financial sectors there will never be and equality in Africa. I bet no white person would want to share economic and financial power with a Black man not only in South Africa but world over. The least a white man can give you is a director or CEO job with a wage, a big car and a house but not the right to own economic and financial means. So africa lets start by being aggressive in ensuring that Africa becomes a home independently for Africans with full economic and financial power. Let's not boot lick european and american funds for our own growth. For those who are in leadership you have the mandate to represent the people of Africa not white man investments and and so called foreign direct investment. Asia did it why can't we.
This is the most racist debate I’ve ever heard in my life. Every sentence had the words black, white, racism, etc… we’re talking about a statue to an individual, a great man. I didn’t hear anyone talk about what he has done.
Hahaha it's funny how the African man says decolonize Africa but would call a white man racist if he said the same thing about Europe
False equivalency
@@josephinebournes8212 Nope. It's every bit on par
Europe was never colonized by Africans
@@ofentsephoebe581 The blind deaf and dumb need not make their afflictions apparent!
Would South Africans have been satisfied being left to wear their skirts and continue to have lived in their village huts? Please don’t ignore the contributions of the British but at the same time the British need to acknowledge equality among everyone for the new civilization they’ve helped to create. Black South Africans need to educate themselves and open their own institutions if necessary now that they have the education and ability.
Ethiopia was never colonized. Are they still in huts with skirts?
Did Roots say the statues were put up by African slaves as an argument to keep statues? Did he really say that?
adam habib is the best
You know in my point .....an ideal education is one that's begins at an early ege .....example....if you want your child to learn respect you don't wait untill whatever age ...you instill respect in em.......I for see a country that one day going to produce an engineer that was equipped with engineerial skills from grade 3 up to diploma/degree .level......i for see country where we learn to invent,produce not to maintain....
The Power should be in the hands of the people of the land. The people need to take their power.
except during loadshedding when theres fokol power.
Only if they're khoi or san
Knowledge is light, financial wealth is power.
yarada lij piss new
9000 for 200 places, so they are asking for reserved places at 10 places?
21 years is not long.
Vote EFF to end all this night mare am not from south Africa anyway but I believe EFF can change this problems
I am not being terse, I really want to discuss this further, academia is a field that sorts it's own out based on skill. Professors etc are recruited on skill right? You don't just get Phds. It takes time to research and time to establish - you can't play around with academic appointments - these people are the guardians of our futures....
These debates are so fixed. The panellists chosen are not prepared to engage in debate but rather, wait for the opportunity to prove their "rightness". What a joke.
John 8:43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…
That must be the only thing you have unknowingly gotten right. Except find out the difference between Hell and Heaven. If you believe in hell you must know that the opposite also exists. May God bless you.
I do not believe any shite
Really? We talking sense here and there you come with the bible sotries that did not exist
Truth should stand as it should be,thanks to white South African lady for pointing out the implications of Rhodes past activities on black life as his statue brings the painful memories of the past.
Past activities? You mean like building the entire country? Why are they tearing down the statue but not the university he built? These violent anti-white racists want to have their cake and eat it too-- they want to claim that colonialism was bad and evil but still keep/steal everything colonialism built, which is to say everything good or civilised in the country. Tear down the statues but don't tear down the buildings, the hospitals, the universities, the infrastructure, the wealth, the democracy, the institutions, the libraries, the EVERYTHING that wasn't there before white Europeans arrived and built it.
Positive cultures build, negative cultures destroy.
I think it is well and good that black life matter but what about coloulered matter too ore don't see them at all??? Just a point of view thank you
Should have the best Professors, surely.