I almost died sitting in jail while I was addicted to about 10mg of Xanax and 3 OxyContin a day. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. Took me about 3 months to feel normal again even after going back on them. Ended up quitting opiates cold turkey and my doctor prescribed me a 6 month taper program for Xanax. Been clean for over 2 years now, I wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for me being lucky to have 3 great people that helped me through it all.....
I have a similar story. I got clean from opiates and Benzos. I was on high dosage of Benzos for a decade and a half. Took me a couple years to get normal from the Benzos. I've never looked back and don't wish it on anyone. Keep it up, it only gets better with time. It takes 2 or 3 years to get back to full function. Excercise, fresh air, sunlight and eating healthy help as well. Unsure if you smoke but if you quit smoking it will increase the likelihood of long-term sobriety. I quit smoking in 2012 but resumed in 2016, I dealt with cravings and dreams for nicotine longer than anything. I woke up a couple years later like WTF bought a bag of jolly ranchers and tossed my cigs. I've not thought or looked back at nicotine since unlike the first time. Best of luck it is possible. Stay focused on goals and moving forward, don't live in the past but hold onto the bad times. Compare your worst days to your successful days and show gratitude daily........
My withdrawals lasted 18 months of feeling like I was on mushrooms. I'm totally fine now I just "woke up" into the year 2020 which sucked haha. To anyone struggling w psychosis: eat healthy and run.
Wow what an overwhelming response. You guys understand you're all so much stronger for going through this. It teaches us what's important in life. We might have PTSD from the hell we went through but coping mechanisms have become a way of life. We've become the model of true strength for enduring that. And what a 180 from the weak people we were on the drug. Heavy chested and anxious without it. I love the sense of community waking up to this thread gave me. Congrats guys!
@@THX-ov8rv it never got easier?? You shouldn't look forward to death because your perception got wonky. Figure out ways to ground yourself and stay grounded. Like someone above said: focus on things you can do and be grateful for what you have.
We tried tapering and it never took I went through snri, benzo and opiod withdrawal cold turkey last year after years in pain with no real relief. It was 6 weeks of hell, 3 suicide attempts and just awful suffering, but I'm free now. Free to feel again, free to be awake.
@@JJ-Toreddie definitely not! I'm considering working/volunteering in the sector once I've gotten better, lost my mum recently and it's been a struggle. I couldn't have coped at all or grieved under those circumstances, so it's a good thing I kicked it.
@@BroBruh thank you so much. And thanks everyone for the support, I expected to get slaughtered in the comments, but you've all been so kind and understanding. This community rocks! Ohhhh black Betty....
Indeed! This is important subject impacting in one way or the other, almost every life on the planet, today. Great segment, this is real subtle advocacy.
Was sober a long time, got on benzos for a long period. I was on 90 1mg per moth and ambien for sleep.. It ended up as a new addiction. I tapered for a month and then I detoxed for 3/4 months. Seizures, hallucinations. Lost my job because I couldn’t function. It was unbelievable HELL. I had been through cold turkey heroin withdrawals and I would do that 10 time before I ever take another benzo.
Agreed! Same shit happened with me! Mine was a little longer though, 1 month. 3 months before I felt sort of normal. Heroin withdrawal ain't got shit on Xanax withdrawal and that's saying allot because heroin withdrawal is a serious mother fucker
I was on it for 5 years, a couple grams a day the last year. It was awful hell no doubt getting off of it. I used the Suboxone approach which makes it possible. If I didn't have Suboxone I'd have to be forced to quit by being in jail or out of money. Luckily I never had to deal with either. I was a stable junkie. You wouldn't even noticed I was a user if you saw me during my heyday. Maybe another user might of noticed the tell tale signs, like the glazed over eyes or the pin point pupils. It was my worst enemy and best friend. Eventually it steals everything from you so it's actually nothing but your worst enemy. I have relapsed Several times. I have to be strong to never use again.
The seizures, sweats/chills, migraines and overall body pain are awful during benzo withdrawal, but the worst part for me was the horrifying panic and and mental anguish I had to endure. It warps your perception of time and disconnects you from reality.
Were you on a short-acting BZD like alprazolam, lorazapam, clonazepam? (Or God forbid, those research chemicals) Long-lasting (lipid soluble) drugs like diazepam were pretty easy to get off of - no seizures.
Absolutely. Also, my take away from it I never knew that level of pain/anguish ever existed. It really tests you and once you get through it you will have a story to tell. You will gain a new perspective such as....life sucks but if you got through benzos withdrawal than you can get through anything. For me it was first the hell of effexor withdrawal and getting on benzos to alleviate that pain. Than it was the benzos withdrawal. Yikes. But here I am.
It truly is a hell unimaginable. It's an endurance test to the extreme just trying to survive another day during withdrawals from they stuff. I truly wanted to die every moment and I certainly would have killed myself if I had the chance. Thank goodness I was protected from myself during the worst of it, which is another hell all together but in a sense it's worth it because I made it out the otherside. Still have days where the symptoms return but the windows are getting further apart. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone.
I was prescribed Klonopin starting at 19 and I’m 36 now…. I was switched to Xanax . I tried begging for help to quit but was sent home from the doctors one day to go through the benzo withdrawal by myself. It almost killed me several times and after a year of hiding in my room literally 24/7, I was still sick from it. I quit the benzo the same time I decided to quit the alcohol, it was beyond brutal! I’m now a year and a half in and I feel much better but still not 100%. I never knew how dangerous those things were and the people that put me on it, didn’t seem to know how to get me off it. One thing is true, whatever anxiety you hide with benzo, you WILL pay it back in full when you go to quit. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
Glad you are ok. I'm sorry about your experience. "You will pay back in full" your anxiety. Couldn't be more true. Was put on kpin for an anxiety episode brought on from covid. Took them for 3 weeks. That was 3 months ago. Finally starting to feel like myself. Shit is pure evil. Can't imagine the suffering you and many others have gone through. Stay strong Ohh best of all the doctors didn't believe any of my withdrawal symptoms. And was told to get back on it. Plus an antidepressants. Lol fucking quacks
"The mind is terrifying, we are talking about the infinite possibility of fun, but it's the infinite possibility of suffering too, which is one of the dangers of expansion of the human mind, ..., may be the space of pain is much larger than we could possibly imagine". Lex Fridman, you have some deep thoughts man.
2:22 this is the problem. They are only approved for emergencies and should not be prescribed for more than 2 weeks. My doctor still prescribed them even once I told him I quit and never would go back on them. Getting off of them was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. But I found some ways to make it a bit better. I am happy to say I am two months clean from benzos. Still not sleeping but my memory has returned and I feel like I have my brain power back. Prayers to anyone going through withdrawal
How long were you on them? I'm coming off 3 years of 2mg xanax use and I am on a perma-bad trip right now. I detoxed off sub and methadone before and right now theese benzo wds is giving my cold turkey off methadone experience a run for its money. Seriously kicking my ass. It's really hard to have any positive thoughts because of the looping negative thoughts but I'm soldiering on hoping there is a comedown to this nightmare eventually.
@@abuzen1578 6 months later and I still have some PAWS ( post acute withdrawals) but I am 90% better, thx for asking. Let me know if you or anyone else has any questions. I don't mind to share my experience and hope. But yeah, first 2-3 months pretty rough but it gets better. Just slowly 😏🙂
Benzo withdrawal/injury can on for months to YEARS. I'm NOT kidding. I felt like I was being tortured for up to 5 years. Please reconsider taking these drugs. I went down to 79 pounds and had several seizures, and horrifying akathisia. They are NOT worth the years of torture.
@@mary-kate6170 I'm glad to hear you're making progress. I will bet that you will make a full recovery and you'll be able to use this experience to do good in the world. I understand the hell you went through. I experienced 2 solid years of hell and another year of good and bad days. Looking back it's hard to believe I lived through that. I'm pretty much fully recovered 3.5 years later. You sound like the worst is behind you. Good job deciding to take your life back. Have a beautiful day! 💗
I just want to clarify; you went through severe PAWS, not just acute w/d. Not everybody will suffer for that long. At least that's what I tell myself...
So sorry yib had to go through all that!!I lost my mind for 3 months going cold turkey Xanax withdrawal. I had intrusive thought, but it was the same word over and over and over all day, I couldnt think. I had to get checked in to the phych ward. Weird side effect I know, I lt happened on night 4 of my Xanax withdrawal. I hadn't slept, and dosed off for a couple minutes and woke up out of horrible nightmare and the word Prednisone pulsed in my brain 3 times, kind of a painful pulse sensation, it was terrifying and strange and I knew something horrific had happened to my brain. It definitely messed me up. I would have killed myself if I wasn't protected from myself. I didn't think it would go away ever, but after finally sleeping 4 weeks into my withdrawal, it eased up a bit, from there it was really bad at nights and mornings, but each day got a little better. Ya never know what will happen with the benzos. The best option is to never take them. My brain is still healing for sure.
Even after speaking to Jordan’s daughter, the New York Times still tried to frame this as a psychotic episode. Extremely dangerous, given the real subject matter.
@@WeKnowYoureThere Psychotic episode? Look, I like JP, but you know it had to get quite bad to wind up in Russia in a coma; CT'ing a Benzo can bring a sh-tstorm. Hell, tapering slowly can. But I do hear that you don't feel the NYT did him any justice with their article, or choice of words. I getcha.
Good listen. After 3 year taper at no more than 2-5% every 2-4+ week's, I finished tapering off klonopin a benzodiazepine. I learned the hard way most doctor's are totally clueless what there prescribing, how long they should be used and most importantly, how to properly taper off.
I struggle with addiction and sobriety and I had my own Xanax bender about 8 months ago. Lasting almost 2 weeks I was taking multiple pills a day. I felt amazing in that time but my life was slowly disintegrating. The withdrawals after quitting cold turkey were some of the worst days of my life, truly terrible feeling. I am glad the worst of the symptoms lasted only a few days but honestly my brain was not the same for a long time afterwards...
99% this exact thing happened to my mother...she is still not recovered and we fear she may never be the same. Benzos are BAD BAD things that should be avoided by all people at all costs. Lex & Jim, thanks so much for talking about this. I've shared it with my parents. I hope others will see this and it will teach them to avoid benzos.
Went cold turkey on 6mg , doctor prescribed, klonopin a day 10 years ago. Almost unintentionally threw myself into traffic in a psychosis coming off it. Shit's absolute evil.
Damn, I would almost intentionally through myself in traffic coming off that shit. It was pure torture every second of every day for months. I can't believe I survived, truly.
@@turnip5359 this was my experience. The very first time I tried to get off Xanax I would wake up with my teeth clenched tight and my body really tense and stiffed up. Idk if that’s considered a partial seizure or if that was the first warning sign I was going to eventually have a seizure. Fast forward to a year and a half later. I flipped myself out of my own bed onto the floor. When I can to I was back in my bed. There was blood on my pillow and my face hurt and my tongue was but to hell. I guess I tossed myself out of bed and i hazily remember getting up and putting myself back into bed. Over the next couple years I probably had 8 seizures because I would do Xanax in hard binges and stop like an idiot. You’ll know when you have a seizure trust me.
Took me 5 years to get off this shit . Taper 31/2 then rehab . Add AD 4 different types. CT Reinstated almost died paradoxal effects, switched to another benzo and an other AD. CT now one year off, first six months off was pure hell! Slowly getting better but still bad waves . This medication is worse than everything on earth. I came off all drugs heroin including when I was teenager. Compared to that it’s a walk in the park. We are the strongest people of all , nobody should go through this. We are warriors
I love Dr Peterson and his daughter helped me so much. Unfortunately I have longtern insidious dependency on Lorazepam for 10 yrs or morr moderate dose 2-4mg for anxiety panic and sleep. Refractory clinical major double depression disorder my whole life. Had stress burnout age 40 now 55. Ontario Canada. 😒
Oh man. I don’t even know where to start. Chris Cornell. Ativan can be brutal after a month. You’re sick and don’t even know it. They are hell. I can say more without getting into a long ass post. It’s emotional.
They put me on ativan at 15 years old. Took me 12 years and multiple life altering horrible actions to wake up and withdraw. I hurt so many people including myself.
@@shineyshine2008 it’s ruined families. It’s turned doctors and families against patient. The amount of akathisia missed is incredible - morally appalling. I don’t mean to be alarmist but there are more people in the ground because if benzos than pain pills and heroin. It is a reckless misunderstood epidemic that goes back 40 years. The depression, anxiety, withdrawal tolerance....the physical pain that can last for years and years. People are ignored and desperate. The arrogance of American psychiatry on this topic is horrendous. I have had screaming fights about this topic with colleagues. I was called a fool.
@@thomasedward2231 I have watched these "legalized drug dealers" destroy my family. My mother, father, grandmother, myself, and now young siblings have been prescribed benzos and often SSRIs. There is untold psychological damage. Many mass shooters have been on those pills. Here's a scary thought; they work through your GABA system, like alcohol. How many people are "drunk driving" on pills? I believe something like 20 countries had banned or restricted benzos, yet America wants to act like some beacon of logic. Hah. Our governments are owned by Big Pharma (and China, but that's a different story). It's sick. Got small time dealers doing 20 years for selling coke, but meanwhile "learned doctors" get fat pockets selling pills to kids, even toddlers. You are totally right about this hidden epidemic. There was a local doctor prescribing benzos and opioids in the same visits. He barely did any time, even though people died. Patients' family were calling, crying, begging him to stop doing it. Now he is free and wants his liscense back to "help with COVID." Lol. Sick animals deserve to be put down.
@@thomasedward2231 I’ve withdrawn from Ativan, Xanax, and Klonopin over the last few years (not all at the same time) and it was always hell on earth but never got akathisia. Dr Peterson suffered from akathisia when he tried tapering from benzos and he described it as something painfully prodding him in the back of his foot nonstop and drove him crazy. I can’t imagine experiencing that ALONG with benzo withdrawal itself. I’ve detoxed cold turkey off of dope plenty of times and I thought that was the worst kind of hell but benzo withdrawal takes the cake. Horrible stuff man.
I was taking around 60 to 100mg of Valium everyday for 2 years, I stopped cold turkey because I was unable to get anymore, I literally thought I was dying, Ive never experienced anything like it, literally hell on earth, and the worst part is most people around you don’t understand what’s going on.
They don't understand, they can't understand. They've never experienced anything close to the amount of pain and misery that the withdrawals bring on. It's literal torture and torment body, soul and mind. Very difficult to endure. I can see why people kill themselves not seeing a way out. Every moment feels like an eternity as well.
I am newly off Benzos. I feel like I have MS now or some thing. It’s just a living hell. I was never addicted to anything till I was put on medication after a family crisis. I can’t stand without holding onto the wall and I have neuropathic pain all over my body. It’s agony. I had an MRI last year but nothing was detected. I’m scared.
Hang in there and get all the support you can find. It's your brain healing and forming new neural paths. That kind of healing takes time. Don't give up. Exercise a lot, it helps get your mind off it and helps your mind heal quickly.
Had all these symptoms. Cns was nuked beyond belief..light exercise if you can.. intermittent fasting. No supplements especially the chemical kind. Force yourself to do things. Even small walks. Benzos are the worst kind of shit I've ever had the misfortune of taking..I reinstated after 7 months and managed to taper a further 7 months . 9 months out about 80 percent back. I had a septorhinoplasty when I tried to cold turkey and my brain got severely kindled with the general anesthetic. It's inexplicable.
@joey Marino i hear you but hang in there and avoid anything that triggers anxiety like caffeigne or processed foods. i cant exercise either and my balance is off its hell im 6 months off.
I had the SAME thing but quitting Cannabis after 8 years of daily usage and you know what's the funny thing about it? I HAD to resort to Benzos to survive, so know I'm addicted to Benzos as well (cos I relapsed into Cannabis) . So I know very well what's coming for me... I know what you went through, it feels like we're burning alive, like we're in a literal HELL.
This topic needs serious attention. A friend is on day 18 cold turkey after 21yrs on(no abuse), it is disastrous. Doctors are hardly familiar with the subject and refuse to help in an appropriate manner, instead endlessly talking about the opioid epidemic as if it were related and prescribing ssri's, as if they weren't also problematic. What does one do to cope when there are no alternatives to suffering? Are there any non-profits that can assist the underprivelidged/incapacitated? These patients are expected to fend for themselves but they cannot.
I remember when I was in the thick of Xanax withdrawal and asking the same questions.....those who are able to help DONT because they refuse to see the truth they convince themselves that you are crazy even if you make perfect sense providing info about benzos and the Ashton method. In my experience I remember giving this woman who was managing a large psych/addiction clinic I had three separate long in depth conversations with her and each time broke her promise to go to the website where the ashton book is published and to do some research she just bullshitted me
I used to work 12 hour shift in pharmaceutical manufacturing with an hour commute on each end. I loved the work, but the hours were hell. Given the need for extreme attention to detail when producing vaccines I could never calm my thoughts enough in time to get a good night's sleep to wake up again at 5pm (night shift) so I could get to work and do it all again until 6 am. I thus started taking benzos to sleep and wow they worked great, but when I didn't have them sleep was IMPOSSIBLE and so I decided to taper myself. I spoke to a therapist about it and had also seen psychiatrists and told them of my usage, but no taper plan was ever conveyed to me by either my therapist or the PA psychiatrist. I do not blame them at all, but it would have been nice to know how dangerous it can be. The ONLY withdrawal symptoms I ever experienced were insomnia and way worse 2 seizures. I sleep fine now. I only had those 2 seizures and it has been 3.5 years since I have taken any benzo.
It’s pretty remarkable how little most doctors know about the extensive damage a benzo habit will cause. I lived through that shit by sheer dumb luck survived a suicide attempt while in a state of psychosis. Shit is bananas. Stick to running meditating and stuff like ashwaganda
If you haven’t thought about it already, you should get in touch with Jordan and set up an interview. It would be great to see you two talk. That would probably make for a great conversation.
I just kicked benzos and it wasn't that bad. Don't let this scare you if you have to do so yourself. I took 4MG a day for 5 years. I weined down to 1MG a day over a month and then stopped cold turkey. Felt anxious but I slept OK and was fine after a week
I got super heavy into benzos after my Dad died, basically blacked out for 2 months then supplier disappeared and I was forced to detox myself off using 2 mg clonazepam and I was on fentanyl and methadone. It was utterly hellish and an absolute miracle I managed to stop them. The only thing that helped was shooting fentanyl. It was indescribable misery unlike anything I'd experience prior to that. Then I had to detox cold turkey from about 10+ grams of fentanyl in jail. I honestly can't imagine suffering worse than that. Thank God I've been sober for almost 2 years now.
@@brushstroke3733 it took them many years to acknowledge, Own up to their responsibility, and take action, on the probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of chronic pain patients and veterans who were routinely prescribed opiates under a false idea that opiates are OK to give to people with chronic pain as well as acute pain which was the only thing they had ever been approved for. The idea didn’t work and everybody taking them daily gets physically dependent, stops getting the benefit and they either have to increase the dose ( a dead end), or withdraw them from the drug which is obviously a kind of hell like benzos that one can go through with prescription meds. I worked on a chronic pain program and I saw the whole arc of history from the time when they werent prescribed and we were trying to treat from a rehabilitation/functional model of improving overall mental and physical well-being and functioning, to this supposed miracle of using opiates and Increasing use of invasive procedures and other treatments and now back to what we had at the beginning. It was a terrible scandal and a lot of doctors were just prescribing to drug addicts so they could bill it.for money Pharmacological companies were hideously unethical as we know. People have such a stigma about drugs like methamphetamine and even marijuana and yet the real dangerous nasty ones are the ones that people have less concerned about because “my doctor prescribed it to me.” Well good luck with that. Even alcohol is more dangerous than methamphetamine and it’s legal. If you have alcohol dependence and stop cold turkey you can die; you can also die from alcohol overdose. And it is legal.
Its going to sound ridiculous but I was on Zopiclone for only 1 week and its completely changed me for about 2 months, I had to have counselling, I couldn't sleep upstairs anymore, I felt trapped in a room with people and I was often pacing around. Zopiclone is not a Benzo but its somehow related to that family. Most people would say you can't get that from a week, it was so weird, the doctor thought I was suicidal, I wasn't sure I was but I was not myself.
@@THX-ov8rv That's interesting. For me I just stopped sleeping all of a sudden and the doctor prescribed zopiclone, the effect it seemed to have on my nervous system was causing lots of muscle spasms which frightened me. I had to be sent for scans as the doctor wasn't sure what was going on. I don't think my body fully recovered from it although I'm much better now.
I’m a fan of Jordan Peterson and it’s a shame he hasn’t been introduced to a good doctor who knows his/her way around benzo wd. I can tell you from experience that the severity of the wd is directly proportionate to the dosage one was taking. The biggest mistake people make is trying to use a benzo to “taper” off another benzo. This is counter productive because once you get below the threshold you will experience unbelievably treacherous side effects. Trust me I’ve been there. The most effective and safe way to come off benzos is with the use of pheno-barbital or another long acting barbiturate. These will also bind to the GABBA receptors keeping them satiated while allowing the benzo to metabolize and clear the system. As you gradually taper the pheno you will feel fine. As the pheno dose gets lower then a strong sleep aid is suggested as it can become difficult to get a deep sleep at night and sleep is imperative during this process. Do not use “benzo like” sleep aids like ambien or lunesta as they will just exacerbate the problem. Off label use of seroquil tends to work well for most people. Doxepine is another one that works well. I would stay away from trazadone. Once the gradual pheno taper is complete one should have little to no lingering wd symptoms. One may experience a small amount of anxiety but it’s manageable and there are techniques to counteract it. In my experience the best approach is some form of rigorous exercise, but for those who are more fragile, then doing meditative deep breathing exercises can also be of great benefit. I’ve come off benzos many times in my life and it does seem to become more difficult as we get older, so maybe Jordan’s experience has been so intense because of his age . The length of time one was on benzos is also a huge factor, so the people who have it the worst are the ones who’ve been on them for a long time and at a high dose. I’ve tried many different ways including cold turkey and the method I just explained is by far the smoothest. The same way they use Ativan or Librium to get people off alcohol is the way all detoxes should be approached: use a substance that binds to the same receptors but in a different class of drugs so it tricks the brain into being satiated and since you’re not staying on the pheno for long enough to build a physical dependence one won’t withdraw from the pheno (or other barbiturate). Hope this helps and I’m happy to answer any questions. I tried explaining it as best I could but it’s difficult with limited space to write and not wanting to over complicate it.
Chad Jones Chad Jones Great question Chad. The concept is similar but it’s a bit more nuanced as most matters of brain physiology, addiction, and pharmacology are. Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in suboxone) is what’s referred to as a “partial agonist” meaning it binds to 2 out of the 3 opioid receptor sites. It also has one of the highest binding affinities to the main receptor site called the “Mu” receptor which are the main receptors involved in opioid addiction because that’s where most of the euphoria is produced. Buprenorphine, in many senses, is a wonder drug for opioid addiction, but it isn’t without its drawbacks. Bupe has a 36 hr half-life which is very long amongst the opioid family. What typically happens when a person struggling with opioid dependency goes to a facility to detox and is given suboxone or subutex (same drug but suboxone has an added ingredient called Naltrexone which is a full opioid antagonist. The original purpose of the Naltrexone being added was to divert addicts from injecting suboxone). However, it’s really unnecessary because if someone with an opiate habit injects Buprenorphine (subutex) by itself then they will still experience horrific precipitated withdrawals since Bupe’s binding affinity is much higher than other opioids like oxy and once it crosses the blood brain barrier it will compete for receptor space and brutally detach whichever opioid is currently bound (whether it be oxy, heroin, morphine, etc) and that process is extremely distressing and in rare cases can be fatal. So back to the typical detox experience...Patient checks in and needs to be detoxed from let’s say oxycodone. The detox dr or nurse will perform a survey on the patient to determine how far along they are in withdrawal as to avoid precipitated withdrawal (although I’ve seen many people take it too early and suffer the consequences). Once the patient is deemed ready to begin admin of suboxone/subutex they will begin a taper. The starting dose is determined by the level of opioid use of the patient. The taper typically lasts 5-7 days but if the patient complains of discomfort then the facility will often times either restart the taper protocol or they may draw out the original protocol. Here is the issue with using this drug for detox and why it’s different than the example I gave forth- because Bupe has such a long half-life what usually happens is once the Bupe is discontinued the patient starts withdrawing from the Bupe itself. The prob with Bupe withdrawal is that it takes a long time to get out of the system, so the withdrawal isn’t as “acute” but it’s more drawn out. These facilities do give what’s referred to as “comfort meds” to help take the edge off but for a true addict these meds do little to nothing. Not to mention, the patient is usually discharged a day after the taper protocol is completed (so no more comfort meds at home). So what happens more often than not is the patient is discharged from detox having been detoxed off the oxycodone (in this example) but now they have to contend with the Buprenorphine withdrawals as well and those can last weeks. Any reasonable person can assume what will happen when an addict is released from detox while still withdrawing from Bupe. That is part of the reason why the relapse rate is so high. These people are feeling emotions that have been numbed for a long time, their lives are often times in shambles, and they physically feel like crap, so the first chance they get they will buy more oxy or whatever they can get their hands on to “balance” out and feel “normal” again. This is the cycle for many addicts. I’ve always felt that a more complete approach would be to use Bupe for the initial detox for 5-7 days, then skip a day or two (because of the long half-life) and then give the patient a very mild opioid-like plant substance called Kratom to get the patient passed the early stages of PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome). Unfortunately, Kratom is not regulated and can’t be administered in detox/rehab facilities. Now let’s say the patient isn’t going home after detox and instead they’re going to rehab for 30-90 days assuming they have insurance and their carrier approves ongoing treatment (these days most insurance companies want to send patients home and have them attend an out patient therapy 3 times a week for 3-4 hrs each visit). Which leaves the addict a lot of down time while they’re still withdrawing from the Bupe and many times have what’s called “Anhedonia” or the inability to feel pleasure. Take it from me, that is a nightmare state to be in and it’s common for deep depression, lethargy, and an overwhelming lack of motivation to set in. With the patient experiencing anhedonia how productive can we expect them to be in rehab? Sorry for the long winded answer but I wanted to really shed some light on what’s going on in these detoxes and why even the brightest minds like Dr Peterson can have such a difficult time getting their lives together. From the outside looking in it seems so clear cut. Many non addicts simply can’t understand why addicts can’t “just stop!” I wholeheartedly believe that if there was a more complete approach to the detox process, then a much higher percentage of addicts would be successful post treatment. The psychological healing can’t truly begin until the patients’ physiological wellbeing has been addressed. PS- I focused solely on the detox portion here. For a full recovery there are a host of nutrients, hormones, and amino acids that should be part of someone’s treatment plan as well as physical and spiritual work which are imperative and often also overlooked.
@@MyName-ue9du wow thanks for the reply, very interesting. I have been addicted to oxycodone for 8 years(first 4 years doctor prescribed) and recently got introduced to subs. I find myself ok for the first 5 days on subs but than it gets harder and I eventually go back to the oxycodone pills. I really wish I can take the subs and stay on them for months to see if I can get over this hurdle
Chad Jones You’re very welcome Chad. We’re all here to help each other. I’m assuming you were initially prescribed oxy’s for pain..? I have a couple thoughts I think may be helpful but first I’m wondering what would you say the main reason is that makes it hard to stay on the subs after 5 or so days?
@@MyName-ue9du yes I was in a bad car accident and broke my shoulder, wrist and foot. I was prescribed oxycodone for about 3 years straight from the same doctor than was transferred to another doctor. So the subs been good but only for about 5 days at a time. I’m trying to figure out why after that long I don’t want to take them. I’m not sure? Maybe I should be taking them with another medication. I am still struggling to figure it out and any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated 👍
The joy of the human mind fracturing psychosis, detachment from reality. That's next level dantes inferno scary. I literally revisited every relationship I had, awful trauma. Strangely knew I was and am still a bit, viciously ill. I'm determined as all hell to be well. Get better or die trying, every single day. Gastrointestinal problems are crippling, being bat shit psychotic leaves me very vulnerable. Can't go in public much its just cringe to have these weird thoughts, feelings even delusion really. It has to be getting better I tell myself every single day.
I’ve been offered benzodiazepines twice within the last 4 months by doctors for anxiety but I go the natural path🌳 and both times I revealed that they have been like ...buuuut pills ?
Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I understand why it's used. Acute anxiety, panic attacks. It is fast acting and when you are hurting, it's the only thing that can provide near instant relief. It sucks but you may be better off accepting that you are in for a long struggle. Surrounded yourself with a support system. If possible get short or even long term disability. It's no joke but I can assure you there is hope and life gets better. You WILL return to yourself, even though it seems you never will. Love you.
Fr my ass was taking 8-12 bars a day for like 8 months stright. Was having like 3-6 seziures a day till i checked myself in Hazelton in Minnesota and i have never done em since. That was 6 years ago. Would never wish that feeling on anyone.
Withdrawal was horrible, but not as bad as spending 12 years on "medication" that was supposed to help. I was put on them at 15, and the psychiatrist didn't even know me for 30 minutes before prescribing me multiple drugs. I wish I could put his children on drugs and watch them spin out, cut and burn theirselves, put cigarettes out in their flesh like I did. Except his children don't deserve that, and I could never do that to anyone. To be fair they had me on trazodone, ativan, and something else. I can't recall what, because between the ages of 15 and 20 doctors had given me 7 different pills if I recall.
I was on 4mg a day and then just kinda stopped and have been hoarding all my pills because I don't actually wanna tell my doctor I stopped....but I drink often and hate the mix, end up waking up the next day not knowing what actually happened in the last 12 hours
I think the potential suffering space has to be way more massive because there are way more ways things can go wrong than ways they can go right. Think about how much easier it is to write tragedy than it is to write joy. (at least for me, could be easy for someone else idk)
The brain's primary function is to decide what stimulus and memory to suppress and forget. We live in a constant overload position this is why when we do psychedelics and are exposed to more of that stimulus it feels out of body.
I think that's totally accurate. Our brain is constantly working to limit stimulus to keep us within some kind of consistent predicable sense normality that we have come to know as reality. Outside of that can get pretty scary
It's definitely no joke. my 😷 switched to me from K to Ativan because I've been on it for 14 years so my body built Tolerance. My doctor put me on Ativan and it works but the dose is too low. I plan on getting off really soon, just need a little break to help me become a little mentally stronger then I'll start..
Help… i took tavor on and off for 5 years... with a lot of withdrawals that were too fast, but my body was somehow able to fend them off... now i've apparently tried to taper dose too quickly recently…i am up again and far away from stable... how should i please taper off am an absolute wreck :((( i feel like this is the end with me…
Most petro-chemical pharmaceutical drugs cause unintended consequences and side affects, and are maybe 60-90% overprescribed... The right ones in the right measure do of course save lives though. It’s a massive industry based on dealing with effects, not causes. The US is 5% of the worlds population and takes 40% of the worlds drugs and lives 2.5-3 yrs less than most OECD country averages, clearly more drugs lead to less of a long life, less longevity.
Is this a uniquely North American thing? My good friend is a neurologist and we are in Germany. I asked him about Peterson's struggles and he told me right from the get go that his doctor must be out of his mind for prescribing benzos for regular use. He says benzos are only for patients under acute psychosis and they're used at the hospital as an emergency, not as candy to eat at home. So this makes me think this is quite a strange American thing to do.
ex heroin and benzo addict here. it wasnt bad at all. dont let people frighten you. yes ive detoxed in jail too. its really not what a lot of people say it is. they're just drug addicts who got so used to being prescribed a drug and its kind of stifling when you realize it wasnt ever helping you, and only hurting you . people get addicted to feeling a calm sense of oblivion and when you pull that bandaid off it becomes an uncomfortable experience simply because you've forgotten how to live your life without getting high. then you sit there looking around wondering "well what do i do now?" and that makes you focus on your situation at hand, which increases the anxiety around getting sober - and leads you into a state of depression and restlessness nothing dangerous about quitting drugs. doing the drugs is way more dangerous than quitting them, i promise - dont let fear porn tell you otherwise, just stop taking the godamn pills and go on with your life
Told the doc I want to quit drinking boom a script for benzos. I made a mistake trusting him. Clean now. But the worst part is intrusive suicidal thoughts. Cant even trust your own voice in your head.
Being so much smarter than other people, especially on a philosophical and epistemological level is very, very frustrating and makes one extremely sad. You see where people are wrong, you see where they are heading, you see their games. You've seen the arguments from start to finish before they happened, and you want to start at the end to look for a solution, but they can't follow, because they missed the first steps and can't keep up. I need something to slow down my brain for that... Alcohol and xanax works well, plus a couple of beta blockers and some codeine. I still catch the fork or soap before it hits the ground, though. This life isn't meant for people like us. We just try and bite the good bits till all passes. Dogs are nice though...
You have to become a monk imo and stay connected to nature, the only way I have been able to manage. Wim Hof method as well, a lot of breath work and cold exposure, connecting to those ancient adaptable avd robust genes. You got to learn to let it all go, can't control shit in this life, but you can still enjoy and see the brighter side.
Victim thinking may be comforting but it doesn't lead anywhere. I can see the world for what it is, but I still keep my focus on the good parts. The brain gets addicted to ways of thinking, not just to chemicals.
I was on 4 Bars a day aka 8mg of xanax for a decade and a half nearly. I began being prescribed at 16. I got off them at 29. I had seizures throughout that 13 years, did a lot of dumbshit as well. It took two years before I felt normal or didn't craze them. I got clean nearly 9 years ago and haven't looked back. I think they have value but are way over prescribed. If they work they work but if they don't for the individual, it really can mess you up.
Shits scary, especially walking that Re-hab Hall and seeing people just start having seizures and hallucinations and the blackouts suck not knowing what I did to myself smashing into walls at times, idk how I haven't cracked my head wide open at times but definitely have woken fucked up sore as shit wondering why I thought my face was a good idea for support system for falling 🤣😒🤣
I took a LOT of valium for many years. tapered off over a week. pretty sure I had a seizure or 3. it was worse than detoxing from opiates. really wish a do tor would prescribe me some more 😕
Reading Peterson helped me with understanding that I'm an alcoholic and my life has been better since I've admitted that to myself. Often only addicts can give insights on addiction
That's a rare subject but something I know about. I did Microdose mushrooms to repair my brain from benzo damage. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who's dealing with severe withdrawals as they would probably make matters worse. I waited until 18 months off benzos and it worked great for me. It's not really to help withdrawals but rather repair the brain after completing your withdrawal. I highly recommend it to people who have overcome the withdrawal period.
I almost died sitting in jail while I was addicted to about 10mg of Xanax and 3 OxyContin a day. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. Took me about 3 months to feel normal again even after going back on them.
Ended up quitting opiates cold turkey and my doctor prescribed me a 6 month taper program for Xanax. Been clean for over 2 years now, I wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for me being lucky to have 3 great people that helped me through it all.....
I have a similar story. I got clean from opiates and Benzos. I was on high dosage of Benzos for a decade and a half. Took me a couple years to get normal from the Benzos. I've never looked back and don't wish it on anyone. Keep it up, it only gets better with time. It takes 2 or 3 years to get back to full function. Excercise, fresh air, sunlight and eating healthy help as well. Unsure if you smoke but if you quit smoking it will increase the likelihood of long-term sobriety. I quit smoking in 2012 but resumed in 2016, I dealt with cravings and dreams for nicotine longer than anything. I woke up a couple years later like WTF bought a bag of jolly ranchers and tossed my cigs. I've not thought or looked back at nicotine since unlike the first time. Best of luck it is possible. Stay focused on goals and moving forward, don't live in the past but hold onto the bad times. Compare your worst days to your successful days and show gratitude daily........
That’s an amazing story man. I wish you the best!
I'm glad you made it man, thanks for sharing.
Awesome news bro. Wow they didn’t offer you suboxone while in jail?
@@chadjones6313 the prison system does whatever it want to do. It’s sick. And even if they did givem subs you gotta come down sometime yknow
My withdrawals lasted 18 months of feeling like I was on mushrooms. I'm totally fine now I just "woke up" into the year 2020 which sucked haha. To anyone struggling w psychosis: eat healthy and run.
After going through psychosis myself I thought I was the only one and just crazy it’s nice to feel not alone
I can't recommend enough to people to start running. It helps my mind so much more then my body.
Wow what an overwhelming response. You guys understand you're all so much stronger for going through this. It teaches us what's important in life. We might have PTSD from the hell we went through but coping mechanisms have become a way of life. We've become the model of true strength for enduring that. And what a 180 from the weak people we were on the drug. Heavy chested and anxious without it. I love the sense of community waking up to this thread gave me. Congrats guys!
Also.. while going through it did space freak anyone else tf out!? I couldn't look at the sky for months. 😅
@@THX-ov8rv it never got easier?? You shouldn't look forward to death because your perception got wonky. Figure out ways to ground yourself and stay grounded. Like someone above said: focus on things you can do and be grateful for what you have.
Yet mushrooms are still illegal in most places, the law makers are criminal for allowing this shit to continue.
In Canada you can mail order so many kinds of shrooms
What’s really ironic is psilocybin mushrooms are illegal to possess yet poisonous mushrooms, that will kill you, are completely legal... makes sense
Its been covered up for 70 yrs im blacklisted now
@@givemefreespeechyoutubehitlers I enjoy that service.
We tried tapering and it never took
I went through snri, benzo and opiod withdrawal cold turkey last year after years in pain with no real relief.
It was 6 weeks of hell, 3 suicide attempts and just awful suffering, but I'm free now.
Free to feel again, free to be awake.
Congrats!
I'm glad you made it. Don't waste it.
@@JJ-Toreddie definitely not! I'm considering working/volunteering in the sector once I've gotten better, lost my mum recently and it's been a struggle.
I couldn't have coped at all or grieved under those circumstances, so it's a good thing I kicked it.
Congrats I am happy for you that youre still able to take this fantastic ride we call life. I wish the best to you!
@@BroBruh thank you so much.
And thanks everyone for the support, I expected to get slaughtered in the comments, but you've all been so kind and understanding.
This community rocks!
Ohhhh black Betty....
Lex, you’d being doing the world a massive good having an expert on this topic. It’s hell.
Really connected with this segment. Very eloquently spoken.
Indeed! This is important subject impacting in one way or the other, almost every life on the planet, today. Great segment, this is real subtle advocacy.
i agree! Be well dear friend!
Jim seems like a genuinely good dude
I'm a recovering benzo addict.
Benzo's are no joke!
I'm 2 years clean now and I'm still battling the consequences of my prior abuse on a daily basis.
Was sober a long time, got on benzos for a long period. I was on 90 1mg per moth and ambien for sleep.. It ended up as a new addiction. I tapered for a month and then I detoxed for 3/4 months. Seizures, hallucinations. Lost my job because I couldn’t function. It was unbelievable HELL. I had been through cold turkey heroin withdrawals and I would do that 10 time before I ever take another benzo.
Believe it
Agreed! Same shit happened with me! Mine was a little longer though, 1 month. 3 months before I felt sort of normal. Heroin withdrawal ain't got shit on Xanax withdrawal and that's saying allot because heroin withdrawal is a serious mother fucker
I was on it for 5 years, a couple grams a day the last year. It was awful hell no doubt getting off of it. I used the Suboxone approach which makes it possible. If I didn't have Suboxone I'd have to be forced to quit by being in jail or out of money. Luckily I never had to deal with either. I was a stable junkie. You wouldn't even noticed I was a user if you saw me during my heyday. Maybe another user might of noticed the tell tale signs, like the glazed over eyes or the pin point pupils. It was my worst enemy and best friend. Eventually it steals everything from you so it's actually nothing but your worst enemy. I have relapsed Several times. I have to be strong to never use again.
The seizures, sweats/chills, migraines and overall body pain are awful during benzo withdrawal, but the worst part for me was the horrifying panic and and mental anguish I had to endure. It warps your perception of time and disconnects you from reality.
Yes! 5 minutes was like an hour. Pure torture.
I went schizophrenic
Were you on a short-acting BZD like alprazolam, lorazapam, clonazepam? (Or God forbid, those research chemicals)
Long-lasting (lipid soluble) drugs like diazepam were pretty easy to get off of - no seizures.
Absolutely. Also, my take away from it I never knew that level of pain/anguish ever existed. It really tests you and once you get through it you will have a story to tell. You will gain a new perspective such as....life sucks but if you got through benzos withdrawal than you can get through anything. For me it was first the hell of effexor withdrawal and getting on benzos to alleviate that pain. Than it was the benzos withdrawal. Yikes. But here I am.
It truly is a hell unimaginable. It's an endurance test to the extreme just trying to survive another day during withdrawals from they stuff. I truly wanted to die every moment and I certainly would have killed myself if I had the chance. Thank goodness I was protected from myself during the worst of it, which is another hell all together but in a sense it's worth it because I made it out the otherside. Still have days where the symptoms return but the windows are getting further apart. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone.
I was prescribed Klonopin starting at 19 and I’m 36 now…. I was switched to Xanax . I tried begging for help to quit but was sent home from the doctors one day to go through the benzo withdrawal by myself. It almost killed me several times and after a year of hiding in my room literally 24/7, I was still sick from it. I quit the benzo the same time I decided to quit the alcohol, it was beyond brutal! I’m now a year and a half in and I feel much better but still not 100%. I never knew how dangerous those things were and the people that put me on it, didn’t seem to know how to get me off it.
One thing is true, whatever anxiety you hide with benzo, you WILL pay it back in full when you go to quit.
I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
Glad you are ok. I'm sorry about your experience. "You will pay back in full" your anxiety. Couldn't be more true. Was put on kpin for an anxiety episode brought on from covid. Took them for 3 weeks. That was 3 months ago. Finally starting to feel like myself. Shit is pure evil. Can't imagine the suffering you and many others have gone through. Stay strong
Ohh best of all the doctors didn't believe any of my withdrawal symptoms. And was told to get back on it. Plus an antidepressants. Lol fucking quacks
"The mind is terrifying, we are talking about the infinite possibility of fun,
but it's the infinite possibility of suffering too, which is one of the dangers of expansion of the human mind, ..., may be the space of pain is much larger than we could possibly imagine".
Lex Fridman, you have some deep thoughts man.
2:22 this is the problem. They are only approved for emergencies and should not be prescribed for more than 2 weeks. My doctor still prescribed them even once I told him I quit and never would go back on them. Getting off of them was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. But I found some ways to make it a bit better. I am happy to say I am two months clean from benzos. Still not sleeping but my memory has returned and I feel like I have my brain power back. Prayers to anyone going through withdrawal
How long were you on them? I'm coming off 3 years of 2mg xanax use and I am on a perma-bad trip right now.
I detoxed off sub and methadone before and right now theese benzo wds is giving my cold turkey off methadone experience a run for its money.
Seriously kicking my ass.
It's really hard to have any positive thoughts because of the looping negative thoughts but I'm soldiering on hoping there is a comedown to this nightmare eventually.
@@chriskeith5742 How are you doing ?
@@abuzen1578 6 months later and I still have some PAWS ( post acute withdrawals) but I am 90% better, thx for asking. Let me know if you or anyone else has any questions. I don't mind to share my experience and hope.
But yeah, first 2-3 months pretty rough but it gets better. Just slowly 😏🙂
Benzo withdrawal/injury can on for months to YEARS. I'm NOT kidding. I felt like I was being tortured for up to 5 years. Please reconsider taking these drugs. I went down to 79 pounds and had several seizures, and horrifying akathisia. They are NOT worth the years of torture.
Sorry you had to experience that. I hope you're doing better.
@@scarab9762 thank you so much. I'm doing a little bit better, but still have my bad days. Very much in survival mode 💙
@@mary-kate6170 I'm glad to hear you're making progress. I will bet that you will make a full recovery and you'll be able to use this experience to do good in the world. I understand the hell you went through. I experienced 2 solid years of hell and another year of good and bad days. Looking back it's hard to believe I lived through that. I'm pretty much fully recovered 3.5 years later. You sound like the worst is behind you. Good job deciding to take your life back. Have a beautiful day! 💗
I just want to clarify; you went through severe PAWS, not just acute w/d.
Not everybody will suffer for that long. At least that's what I tell myself...
So sorry yib had to go through all that!!I lost my mind for 3 months going cold turkey Xanax withdrawal. I had intrusive thought, but it was the same word over and over and over all day, I couldnt think. I had to get checked in to the phych ward. Weird side effect I know, I lt happened on night 4 of my Xanax withdrawal. I hadn't slept, and dosed off for a couple minutes and woke up out of horrible nightmare and the word Prednisone pulsed in my brain 3 times, kind of a painful pulse sensation, it was terrifying and strange and I knew something horrific had happened to my brain. It definitely messed me up. I would have killed myself if I wasn't protected from myself. I didn't think it would go away ever, but after finally sleeping 4 weeks into my withdrawal, it eased up a bit, from there it was really bad at nights and mornings, but each day got a little better. Ya never know what will happen with the benzos. The best option is to never take them. My brain is still healing for sure.
Even after speaking to Jordan’s daughter, the New York Times still tried to frame this as a psychotic episode. Extremely dangerous, given the real subject matter.
I wonder if the NYT is on someone's payroll 🤔
I sound like a conspiracy theorist lol
Psychosis is one of the possible outcomes during withdrawal.
@@Eric-tj3tg True. But still defined differently to a psychotic breakdown. And the NYT should know better.
@@WeKnowYoureThere Psychotic episode? Look, I like JP, but you know it had to get quite bad to wind up in Russia in a coma; CT'ing a Benzo can bring a sh-tstorm. Hell, tapering slowly can. But I do hear that you don't feel the NYT did him any justice with their article, or choice of words. I getcha.
Thank you for sharing about this. More lives can be saved.
Good listen.
After 3 year taper at no more than 2-5% every 2-4+ week's, I finished tapering off klonopin a benzodiazepine. I learned the hard way most doctor's are totally clueless what there prescribing, how long they should be used and most importantly, how to properly taper off.
Crazy shot. Hope u are better
I struggle with addiction and sobriety and I had my own Xanax bender about 8 months ago. Lasting almost 2 weeks I was taking multiple pills a day. I felt amazing in that time but my life was slowly disintegrating. The withdrawals after quitting cold turkey were some of the worst days of my life, truly terrible feeling. I am glad the worst of the symptoms lasted only a few days but honestly my brain was not the same for a long time afterwards...
99% this exact thing happened to my mother...she is still not recovered and we fear she may never be the same. Benzos are BAD BAD things that should be avoided by all people at all costs.
Lex & Jim, thanks so much for talking about this. I've shared it with my parents. I hope others will see this and it will teach them to avoid benzos.
How long has she been in recovery?
@@GCT1990 going on year 6…
I was horribly addicted to benzos for 6 years by far the worst ordeal of my life
How long have you been clean?
Went cold turkey on 6mg , doctor prescribed, klonopin a day 10 years ago. Almost unintentionally threw myself into traffic in a psychosis coming off it. Shit's absolute evil.
Sure is. Hope u are better
Damn, I would almost intentionally through myself in traffic coming off that shit. It was pure torture every second of every day for months. I can't believe I survived, truly.
I went through the benzo agony. Had so many seizures ive lost track of them all. I do not recommend them to anyone ever
How do you know if you've had a seizure? I do wake up funny and stiff in the morning sometimes but my teeth are all there
@@turnip5359 this was my experience. The very first time I tried to get off Xanax I would wake up with my teeth clenched tight and my body really tense and stiffed up. Idk if that’s considered a partial seizure or if that was the first warning sign I was going to eventually have a seizure. Fast forward to a year and a half later. I flipped myself out of my own bed onto the floor. When I can to I was back in my bed. There was blood on my pillow and my face hurt and my tongue was but to hell. I guess I tossed myself out of bed and i hazily remember getting up and putting myself back into bed. Over the next couple years I probably had 8 seizures because I would do Xanax in hard binges and stop like an idiot. You’ll know when you have a seizure trust me.
No doctor should be able to prescribe them unless they themselves have experienced the withdraw, because there is no way to describe it.
Valium saved my life. Just use only when needed and you'll be fine.
Abuse them? Different story.
I was on benzos for 10 years, took 18 months of hell , but luckily i got off it alive
God bless you, I’ve been on them for 3 years, and am ready the f to get off of them
Took me 5 years to get off this shit . Taper 31/2 then rehab . Add AD 4 different types. CT
Reinstated almost died paradoxal effects, switched to another benzo and an other AD.
CT now one year off, first six months off was pure hell!
Slowly getting better but still bad waves .
This medication is worse than everything on earth. I came off all drugs heroin including when I was teenager.
Compared to that it’s a walk in the park.
We are the strongest people of all , nobody should go through this.
We are warriors
Definitely. Fkng hell on earth
I love Dr Peterson and his daughter helped me so much. Unfortunately I have longtern insidious dependency on Lorazepam for 10 yrs or morr moderate dose 2-4mg for anxiety panic and sleep. Refractory clinical major double depression disorder my whole life. Had stress burnout age 40 now 55. Ontario Canada. 😒
Brutal. Sorry man.
Slowly taper, it’s tough but worth it. exercise more, find other outlets to lower anxiety naturally.
Oh man. I don’t even know where to start. Chris Cornell. Ativan can be brutal after a month. You’re sick and don’t even know it. They are hell. I can say more without getting into a long ass post. It’s emotional.
They put me on ativan at 15 years old. Took me 12 years and multiple life altering horrible actions to wake up and withdraw. I hurt so many people including myself.
@@shineyshine2008 it’s ruined families. It’s turned doctors and families against patient. The amount of akathisia missed is incredible - morally appalling. I don’t mean to be alarmist but there are more people in the ground because if benzos than pain pills and heroin. It is a reckless misunderstood epidemic that goes back 40 years. The depression, anxiety, withdrawal tolerance....the physical pain that can last for years and years. People are ignored and desperate. The arrogance of American psychiatry on this topic is horrendous. I have had screaming fights about this topic with colleagues. I was called a fool.
@@thomasedward2231 I have watched these "legalized drug dealers" destroy my family. My mother, father, grandmother, myself, and now young siblings have been prescribed benzos and often SSRIs. There is untold psychological damage. Many mass shooters have been on those pills. Here's a scary thought; they work through your GABA system, like alcohol. How many people are "drunk driving" on pills? I believe something like 20 countries had banned or restricted benzos, yet America wants to act like some beacon of logic. Hah. Our governments are owned by Big Pharma (and China, but that's a different story). It's sick. Got small time dealers doing 20 years for selling coke, but meanwhile "learned doctors" get fat pockets selling pills to kids, even toddlers. You are totally right about this hidden epidemic. There was a local doctor prescribing benzos and opioids in the same visits. He barely did any time, even though people died. Patients' family were calling, crying, begging him to stop doing it. Now he is free and wants his liscense back to "help with COVID." Lol. Sick animals deserve to be put down.
@@thomasedward2231 I’ve withdrawn from Ativan, Xanax, and Klonopin over the last few years (not all at the same time) and it was always hell on earth but never got akathisia. Dr Peterson suffered from akathisia when he tried tapering from benzos and he described it as something painfully prodding him in the back of his foot nonstop and drove him crazy. I can’t imagine experiencing that ALONG with benzo withdrawal itself. I’ve detoxed cold turkey off of dope plenty of times and I thought that was the worst kind of hell but benzo withdrawal takes the cake. Horrible stuff man.
@@koshea44 yep
Thanking you for having this conversation
You participate in the Ashton protocol for 2 years to avoid hell dont scare people from basically the only way to stop benzo with minimal pain
The taper itself is still hell. It messed me up beyond belief.
@@skillsmachine9164 it's hell but it's lesser hell than cold turkey
I was taking around 60 to 100mg of Valium everyday for 2 years, I stopped cold turkey because I was unable to get anymore, I literally thought I was dying, Ive never experienced anything like it, literally hell on earth, and the worst part is most people around you don’t understand what’s going on.
Valium is lipid soluble and has 3 long lasting metabolites.
Theoretically, you shouldn't have experienced such severe symptoms. Atleast I didn't.
They don't understand, they can't understand. They've never experienced anything close to the amount of pain and misery that the withdrawals bring on. It's literal torture and torment body, soul and mind. Very difficult to endure. I can see why people kill themselves not seeing a way out. Every moment feels like an eternity as well.
I am newly off Benzos. I feel like I have MS now or some thing. It’s just a living hell. I was never addicted to anything till I was put on medication after a family crisis. I can’t stand without holding onto the wall and I have neuropathic pain all over my body. It’s agony.
I had an MRI last year but nothing was detected. I’m scared.
Hang in there and get all the support you can find. It's your brain healing and forming new neural paths. That kind of healing takes time. Don't give up. Exercise a lot, it helps get your mind off it and helps your mind heal quickly.
Had all these symptoms. Cns was nuked beyond belief..light exercise if you can.. intermittent fasting. No supplements especially the chemical kind. Force yourself to do things. Even small walks. Benzos are the worst kind of shit I've ever had the misfortune of taking..I reinstated after 7 months and managed to taper a further 7 months
. 9 months out about 80 percent back. I had a septorhinoplasty when I tried to cold turkey and my brain got severely kindled with the general anesthetic. It's inexplicable.
@joey Marino i hear you but hang in there and avoid anything that triggers anxiety like caffeigne or processed foods. i cant exercise either and my balance is off its hell im 6 months off.
I had the SAME thing but quitting Cannabis after 8 years of daily usage and you know what's the funny thing about it? I HAD to resort to Benzos to survive, so know I'm addicted to Benzos as well (cos I relapsed into Cannabis) . So I know very well what's coming for me... I know what you went through, it feels like we're burning alive, like we're in a literal HELL.
Take seroquel
It's nice that Mr.Peterson has a family . Thank you Jordan. Love and respect
This topic needs serious attention. A friend is on day 18 cold turkey after 21yrs on(no abuse), it is disastrous. Doctors are hardly familiar with the subject and refuse to help in an appropriate manner, instead endlessly talking about the opioid epidemic as if it were related and prescribing ssri's, as if they weren't also problematic. What does one do to cope when there are no alternatives to suffering? Are there any non-profits that can assist the underprivelidged/incapacitated? These patients are expected to fend for themselves but they cannot.
I remember when I was in the thick of Xanax withdrawal and asking the same questions.....those who are able to help DONT because they refuse to see the truth they convince themselves that you are crazy even if you make perfect sense providing info about benzos and the Ashton method. In my experience I remember giving this woman who was managing a large psych/addiction clinic I had three separate long in depth conversations with her and each time broke her promise to go to the website where the ashton book is published and to do some research she just bullshitted me
True
I used to work 12 hour shift in pharmaceutical manufacturing with an hour commute on each end. I loved the work, but the hours were hell. Given the need for extreme attention to detail when producing vaccines I could never calm my thoughts enough in time to get a good night's sleep to wake up again at 5pm (night shift) so I could get to work and do it all again until 6 am. I thus started taking benzos to sleep and wow they worked great, but when I didn't have them sleep was IMPOSSIBLE and so I decided to taper myself. I spoke to a therapist about it and had also seen psychiatrists and told them of my usage, but no taper plan was ever conveyed to me by either my therapist or the PA psychiatrist. I do not blame them at all, but it would have been nice to know how dangerous it can be. The ONLY withdrawal symptoms I ever experienced were insomnia and way worse 2 seizures. I sleep fine now. I only had those 2 seizures and it has been 3.5 years since I have taken any benzo.
It’s pretty remarkable how little most doctors know about the extensive damage a benzo habit will cause. I lived through that shit by sheer dumb luck survived a suicide attempt while in a state of psychosis. Shit is bananas. Stick to running meditating and stuff like ashwaganda
If you haven’t thought about it already, you should get in touch with Jordan and set up an interview. It would be great to see you two talk. That would probably make for a great conversation.
I wanna hear that long philosophical conversation
I just kicked benzos and it wasn't that bad. Don't let this scare you if you have to do so yourself. I took 4MG a day for 5 years. I weined down to 1MG a day over a month and then stopped cold turkey. Felt anxious but I slept OK and was fine after a week
Hi Nick, on which benzo were you?
Everyone has different expierences.
4mg is a tiny dose. I was taking 120mg of Valium a day for 4 years. No wonder you found it easy
I got super heavy into benzos after my Dad died, basically blacked out for 2 months then supplier disappeared and I was forced to detox myself off using 2 mg clonazepam and I was on fentanyl and methadone. It was utterly hellish and an absolute miracle I managed to stop them. The only thing that helped was shooting fentanyl. It was indescribable misery unlike anything I'd experience prior to that. Then I had to detox cold turkey from about 10+ grams of fentanyl in jail. I honestly can't imagine suffering worse than that. Thank God I've been sober for almost 2 years now.
I wonder how long it will take the medical community to respond to this and course correct.
@@brushstroke3733 well Jbp has money. Maybe he can lawyer up and do the world's largest class action / malpractice thingy. But what do I know.
Time and time again they just tell patients their anxiety is getting f worse and miss the benzo hell.
Check out the book... In Praise of Walking if you have anxiety. Simple exercise and some other self care can do wonders.
@@brushstroke3733 it took them many years to acknowledge, Own up to their responsibility, and take action, on the probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of chronic pain patients and veterans who were routinely prescribed opiates under a false idea that opiates are OK to give to people with chronic pain as well as acute pain which was the only thing they had ever been approved for. The idea didn’t work and everybody taking them daily gets physically dependent, stops getting the benefit and they either have to increase the dose ( a dead end), or withdraw them from the drug which is obviously a kind of hell like benzos that one can go through with prescription meds. I worked on a chronic pain program and I saw the whole arc of history from the time when they werent prescribed and we were trying to treat from a rehabilitation/functional model of improving overall mental and physical well-being and functioning, to this supposed miracle of using opiates and Increasing use of invasive procedures and other treatments and now back to what we had at the beginning. It was a terrible scandal and a lot of doctors were just prescribing to drug addicts so they could bill it.for money Pharmacological companies were hideously unethical as we know. People have such a stigma about drugs like methamphetamine and even marijuana and yet the real dangerous nasty ones are the ones that people have less concerned about because “my doctor prescribed it to me.” Well good luck with that. Even alcohol is more dangerous than methamphetamine and it’s legal. If you have alcohol dependence and stop cold turkey you can die; you can also die from alcohol overdose. And it is legal.
Over 6 decades and still waiting
Benzos... Satan's chill pill
Its going to sound ridiculous but I was on Zopiclone for only 1 week and its completely changed me for about 2 months, I had to have counselling, I couldn't sleep upstairs anymore, I felt trapped in a room with people and I was often pacing around. Zopiclone is not a Benzo but its somehow related to that family. Most people would say you can't get that from a week, it was so weird, the doctor thought I was suicidal, I wasn't sure I was but I was not myself.
@@THX-ov8rv That's interesting. For me I just stopped sleeping all of a sudden and the doctor prescribed zopiclone, the effect it seemed to have on my nervous system was causing lots of muscle spasms which frightened me. I had to be sent for scans as the doctor wasn't sure what was going on. I don't think my body fully recovered from it although I'm much better now.
It took me around 6 months to be able to sleep after recovery.
I detoxed from 6 mgs of klonapin a day and 48 mgs a day of suboxone a day, barely lived through it, been clean 5 years now .
I’m a fan of Jordan Peterson and it’s a shame he hasn’t been introduced to a good doctor who knows his/her way around benzo wd. I can tell you from experience that the severity of the wd is directly proportionate to the dosage one was taking. The biggest mistake people make is trying to use a benzo to “taper” off another benzo. This is counter productive because once you get below the threshold you will experience unbelievably treacherous side effects. Trust me I’ve been there. The most effective and safe way to come off benzos is with the use of pheno-barbital or another long acting barbiturate. These will also bind to the GABBA receptors keeping them satiated while allowing the benzo to metabolize and clear the system. As you gradually taper the pheno you will feel fine. As the pheno dose gets lower then a strong sleep aid is suggested as it can become difficult to get a deep sleep at night and sleep is imperative during this process. Do not use “benzo like” sleep aids like ambien or lunesta as they will just exacerbate the problem. Off label use of seroquil tends to work well for most people. Doxepine is another one that works well. I would stay away from trazadone. Once the gradual pheno taper is complete one should have little to no lingering wd symptoms. One may experience a small amount of anxiety but it’s manageable and there are techniques to counteract it. In my experience the best approach is some form of rigorous exercise, but for those who are more fragile, then doing meditative deep breathing exercises can also be of great benefit. I’ve come off benzos many times in my life and it does seem to become more difficult as we get older, so maybe Jordan’s experience has been so intense because of his age . The length of time one was on benzos is also a huge factor, so the people who have it the worst are the ones who’ve been on them for a long time and at a high dose. I’ve tried many different ways including cold turkey and the method I just explained is by far the smoothest. The same way they use Ativan or Librium to get people off alcohol is the way all detoxes should be approached: use a substance that binds to the same receptors but in a different class of drugs so it tricks the brain into being satiated and since you’re not staying on the pheno for long enough to build a physical dependence one won’t withdraw from the pheno (or other barbiturate). Hope this helps and I’m happy to answer any questions. I tried explaining it as best I could but it’s difficult with limited space to write and not wanting to over complicate it.
So is that what the suboxones do when you are treating a oxy withdrawal? They bind to the same receptors but don’t give you that high
Chad Jones Chad Jones Great question Chad. The concept is similar but it’s a bit more nuanced as most matters of brain physiology, addiction, and pharmacology are. Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in suboxone) is what’s referred to as a “partial agonist” meaning it binds to 2 out of the 3 opioid receptor sites. It also has one of the highest binding affinities to the main receptor site called the “Mu” receptor which are the main receptors involved in opioid addiction because that’s where most of the euphoria is produced. Buprenorphine, in many senses, is a wonder drug for opioid addiction, but it isn’t without its drawbacks. Bupe has a 36 hr half-life which is very long amongst the opioid family. What typically happens when a person struggling with opioid dependency goes to a facility to detox and is given suboxone or subutex (same drug but suboxone has an added ingredient called Naltrexone which is a full opioid antagonist. The original purpose of the Naltrexone being added was to divert addicts from injecting suboxone). However, it’s really unnecessary because if someone with an opiate habit injects Buprenorphine (subutex) by itself then they will still experience horrific precipitated withdrawals since Bupe’s binding affinity is much higher than other opioids like oxy and once it crosses the blood brain barrier it will compete for receptor space and brutally detach whichever opioid is currently bound (whether it be oxy, heroin, morphine, etc) and that process is extremely distressing and in rare cases can be fatal. So back to the typical detox experience...Patient checks in and needs to be detoxed from let’s say oxycodone. The detox dr or nurse will perform a survey on the patient to determine how far along they are in withdrawal as to avoid precipitated withdrawal (although I’ve seen many people take it too early and suffer the consequences). Once the patient is deemed ready to begin admin of suboxone/subutex they will begin a taper. The starting dose is determined by the level of opioid use of the patient. The taper typically lasts 5-7 days but if the patient complains of discomfort then the facility will often times either restart the taper protocol or they may draw out the original protocol. Here is the issue with using this drug for detox and why it’s different than the example I gave forth- because Bupe has such a long half-life what usually happens is once the Bupe is discontinued the patient starts withdrawing from the Bupe itself. The prob with Bupe withdrawal is that it takes a long time to get out of the system, so the withdrawal isn’t as “acute” but it’s more drawn out. These facilities do give what’s referred to as “comfort meds” to help take the edge off but for a true addict these meds do little to nothing. Not to mention, the patient is usually discharged a day after the taper protocol is completed (so no more comfort meds at home). So what happens more often than not is the patient is discharged from detox having been detoxed off the oxycodone (in this example) but now they have to contend with the Buprenorphine withdrawals as well and those can last weeks. Any reasonable person can assume what will happen when an addict is released from detox while still withdrawing from Bupe. That is part of the reason why the relapse rate is so high. These people are feeling emotions that have been numbed for a long time, their lives are often times in shambles, and they physically feel like crap, so the first chance they get they will buy more oxy or whatever they can get their hands on to “balance” out and feel “normal” again. This is the cycle for many addicts. I’ve always felt that a more complete approach would be to use Bupe for the initial detox for 5-7 days, then skip a day or two (because of the long half-life) and then give the patient a very mild opioid-like plant substance called Kratom to get the patient passed the early stages of PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome). Unfortunately, Kratom is not regulated and can’t be administered in detox/rehab facilities. Now let’s say the patient isn’t going home after detox and instead they’re going to rehab for 30-90 days assuming they have insurance and their carrier approves ongoing treatment (these days most insurance companies want to send patients home and have them attend an out patient therapy 3 times a week for 3-4 hrs each visit). Which leaves the addict a lot of down time while they’re still withdrawing from the Bupe and many times have what’s called “Anhedonia” or the inability to feel pleasure. Take it from me, that is a nightmare state to be in and it’s common for deep depression, lethargy, and an overwhelming lack of motivation to set in. With the patient experiencing anhedonia how productive can we expect them to be in rehab? Sorry for the long winded answer but I wanted to really shed some light on what’s going on in these detoxes and why even the brightest minds like Dr Peterson can have such a difficult time getting their lives together. From the outside looking in it seems so clear cut. Many non addicts simply can’t understand why addicts can’t “just stop!” I wholeheartedly believe that if there was a more complete approach to the detox process, then a much higher percentage of addicts would be successful post treatment. The psychological healing can’t truly begin until the patients’ physiological wellbeing has been addressed.
PS- I focused solely on the detox portion here. For a full recovery there are a host of nutrients, hormones, and amino acids that should be part of someone’s treatment plan as well as physical and spiritual work which are imperative and often also overlooked.
@@MyName-ue9du wow thanks for the reply, very interesting.
I have been addicted to oxycodone for 8 years(first 4 years doctor prescribed) and recently got introduced to subs.
I find myself ok for the first 5 days on subs but than it gets harder and I eventually go back to the oxycodone pills.
I really wish I can take the subs and stay on them for months to see if I can get over this hurdle
Chad Jones You’re very welcome Chad. We’re all here to help each other. I’m assuming you were initially prescribed oxy’s for pain..? I have a couple thoughts I think may be helpful but first I’m wondering what would you say the main reason is that makes it hard to stay on the subs after 5 or so days?
@@MyName-ue9du yes I was in a bad car accident and broke my shoulder, wrist and foot. I was prescribed oxycodone for about 3 years straight from the same doctor than was transferred to another doctor.
So the subs been good but only for about 5 days at a time. I’m trying to figure out why after that long I don’t want to take them. I’m not sure? Maybe I should be taking them with another medication.
I am still struggling to figure it out and any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated 👍
The joy of the human mind fracturing psychosis, detachment from reality. That's next level dantes inferno scary. I literally revisited every relationship I had, awful trauma. Strangely knew I was and am still a bit, viciously ill. I'm determined as all hell to be well. Get better or die trying, every single day. Gastrointestinal problems are crippling, being bat shit psychotic leaves me very vulnerable. Can't go in public much its just cringe to have these weird thoughts, feelings even delusion really. It has to be getting better I tell myself every single day.
Short video but very intriguing topic
Coming off heroin and methadone at the same time was a fucking cake walk compared to getting off benzos for me
I’ve been offered benzodiazepines twice within the last 4 months by doctors for anxiety but I go the natural path🌳 and both times I revealed that they have been like ...buuuut pills ?
Run for your fucking life. Do not take benzos
Benzos are safe and effective for treating anxiety disorders short-term. (3ish months)
They have a place in this world, and they do work.
@@animepussy8356 I agree that they are safe and effective when used short-term but 3 months is way too long and more than enough to become habituated.
Very grateful to know Jordan Peterson is doing so much better now, the world came very close to losing a great mind like his.
I believe it’s one of the most dangerous drug’s out there.
Exactly, it's not how 'high' you get but how far you fall
Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I understand why it's used. Acute anxiety, panic attacks. It is fast acting and when you are hurting, it's the only thing that can provide near instant relief. It sucks but you may be better off accepting that you are in for a long struggle. Surrounded yourself with a support system. If possible get short or even long term disability. It's no joke but I can assure you there is hope and life gets better. You WILL return to yourself, even though it seems you never will. Love you.
Fr my ass was taking 8-12 bars a day for like 8 months stright. Was having like 3-6 seziures a day till i checked myself in Hazelton in Minnesota and i have never done em since. That was 6 years ago.
Would never wish that feeling on anyone.
Lex needs to talk about the Cipro scandal!
Benzos act on the same receptor as alcohol. That alone says a lot.
Some* of the same receptors. Both work on GABA, but alcohol works on a bunch of other neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, etc)
Withdrawal was horrible, but not as bad as spending 12 years on "medication" that was supposed to help. I was put on them at 15, and the psychiatrist didn't even know me for 30 minutes before prescribing me multiple drugs. I wish I could put his children on drugs and watch them spin out, cut and burn theirselves, put cigarettes out in their flesh like I did. Except his children don't deserve that, and I could never do that to anyone. To be fair they had me on trazodone, ativan, and something else. I can't recall what, because between the ages of 15 and 20 doctors had given me 7 different pills if I recall.
I was on 4mg a day and then just kinda stopped and have been hoarding all my pills because I don't actually wanna tell my doctor I stopped....but I drink often and hate the mix, end up waking up the next day not knowing what actually happened in the last 12 hours
Damn dude, I don’t know you but that makes me sad to read, I legit hope you’re okay.
@@kirkjohnson9353 Thanks! maybe one day lol
@@kirkjohnson9353 thanks, I managed to stop smoking weed that way, so halfway there lol
I think the potential suffering space has to be way more massive because there are way more ways things can go wrong than ways they can go right. Think about how much easier it is to write tragedy than it is to write joy. (at least for me, could be easy for someone else idk)
The brain's primary function is to decide what stimulus and memory to suppress and forget. We live in a constant overload position this is why when we do psychedelics and are exposed to more of that stimulus it feels out of body.
I think that's totally accurate. Our brain is constantly working to limit stimulus to keep us within some kind of consistent predicable sense normality that we have come to know as reality. Outside of that can get pretty scary
The only people who are “experts” with benzo-withdrawl are people who have actually experienced it themselves. This guy has no idea…
My Dr had me at Eight 2MG Tabs (16mg)per day, just curious what other Drs had them at..
It’s hell on earth.
Benzos. Pure hell withdrawal. If u can find an alternative to taking them in the 1st place, lord God please do so
It's definitely no joke. my 😷 switched to me from K to Ativan because I've been on it for 14 years so my body built Tolerance. My doctor put me on Ativan and it works but the dose is too low. I plan on getting off really soon, just need a little break to help me become a little mentally stronger then I'll start..
When he said "bloody scary" and made the "fine-tuned" hand gesture, that's how I knew he's been around JBP quite a lot.
It sounds like doctors aren't there for progress, they just want you to be an eternal customer of their sphere.
Yep
Help… i took tavor on and off for 5 years... with a lot of withdrawals that were too fast, but my body was somehow able to fend them off... now i've apparently tried to taper dose too quickly recently…i am up again and far away from stable... how should i please taper off am an absolute wreck :((( i feel like this is the end with me…
🤔 Ok, can you give a hint of when that "long philosophical conversation" will take place?
Great podcast! 😊
I feel lucky and blessed to have never gotten hooked on anything but Skoal. Which is bad enough.
You are blessed and smart too
Most petro-chemical pharmaceutical drugs cause unintended consequences and side affects, and are maybe 60-90% overprescribed... The right ones in the right measure do of course save lives though. It’s a massive industry based on dealing with effects, not causes. The US is 5% of the worlds population and takes 40% of the worlds drugs and lives 2.5-3 yrs less than most OECD country averages, clearly more drugs lead to less of a long life, less longevity.
When is jordan going to be on the show?
Is this a uniquely North American thing? My good friend is a neurologist and we are in Germany. I asked him about Peterson's struggles and he told me right from the get go that his doctor must be out of his mind for prescribing benzos for regular use. He says benzos are only for patients under acute psychosis and they're used at the hospital as an emergency, not as candy to eat at home. So this makes me think this is quite a strange American thing to do.
Yeah and the reason for not prescribing for regular use is precisely because it's so potent and addictive apparently.
All addicts go through hell.
Most addicts hold down jobs and nobody knows about their addiction until it goes wrong.
I’ve been clean for 5 years i smoke weed to help the withdrawals till this day but Just one day that I don’t smoke it’s very hard to be
Every time i took Klonopin, I wound up breaking my phone one way or another.
And to think the Times tried to spin this into a schizophrenic episode 🙄
When you hear anything about how awesome xannys (xanax) is, just walk away. Know one should have to deal with the withdrawal symptoms
ex heroin and benzo addict here. it wasnt bad at all. dont let people frighten you. yes ive detoxed in jail too. its really not what a lot of people say it is. they're just drug addicts who got so used to being prescribed a drug and its kind of stifling when you realize it wasnt ever helping you, and only hurting you . people get addicted to feeling a calm sense of oblivion and when you pull that bandaid off it becomes an uncomfortable experience simply because you've forgotten how to live your life without getting high. then you sit there looking around wondering "well what do i do now?" and that makes you focus on your situation at hand, which increases the anxiety around getting sober - and leads you into a state of depression and restlessness
nothing dangerous about quitting drugs. doing the drugs is way more dangerous than quitting them, i promise - dont let fear porn tell you otherwise, just stop taking the godamn pills and go on with your life
Lex, You should have JP asap! Been long pending now mate.
Yea lex why didn’t u go to Jordan’s hospital room and interview him while his connected to the IV?
@@ronaldbargain4925 Oh I see, you were holding that drip by his bed.
damn that ending was insane
Told the doc I want to quit drinking boom a script for benzos. I made a mistake trusting him. Clean now. But the worst part is intrusive suicidal thoughts. Cant even trust your own voice in your head.
4:10 universal moment
They had me quit cold turkey before electroconvulsive therapy, IT WAS HELL.
Being so much smarter than other people, especially on a philosophical and epistemological level is very, very frustrating and makes one extremely sad. You see where people are wrong, you see where they are heading, you see their games. You've seen the arguments from start to finish before they happened, and you want to start at the end to look for a solution, but they can't follow, because they missed the first steps and can't keep up. I need something to slow down my brain for that... Alcohol and xanax works well, plus a couple of beta blockers and some codeine. I still catch the fork or soap before it hits the ground, though. This life isn't meant for people like us. We just try and bite the good bits till all passes. Dogs are nice though...
True. Sometimes it’s not even that some of us are so much more intelligent, just being more intuitive can cause the same schism.
You have to become a monk imo and stay connected to nature, the only way I have been able to manage. Wim Hof method as well, a lot of breath work and cold exposure, connecting to those ancient adaptable avd robust genes. You got to learn to let it all go, can't control shit in this life, but you can still enjoy and see the brighter side.
Victim thinking may be comforting but it doesn't lead anywhere. I can see the world for what it is, but I still keep my focus on the good parts. The brain gets addicted to ways of thinking, not just to chemicals.
@@younglito987. Very, very true! In fact, I DEFINITELY don't have an extremely high IQ, just high... But not MENSA material, I think.
@@MrFredericandre. Also true...!
Switch to Amanita muscaria. Non addictive alternative to benzos. All natural.
I was on 4 Bars a day aka 8mg of xanax for a decade and a half nearly. I began being prescribed at 16. I got off them at 29. I had seizures throughout that 13 years, did a lot of dumbshit as well. It took two years before I felt normal or didn't craze them. I got clean nearly 9 years ago and haven't looked back. I think they have value but are way over prescribed. If they work they work but if they don't for the individual, it really can mess you up.
what's benzo?
Shits scary, especially walking that Re-hab Hall and seeing people just start having seizures and hallucinations and the blackouts suck not knowing what I did to myself smashing into walls at times, idk how I haven't cracked my head wide open at times but definitely have woken fucked up sore as shit wondering why I thought my face was a good idea for support system for falling 🤣😒🤣
I was addicted to benzos for 4 years. Getting off was Hell.
Not joking ... is there any relief while getting off benzos by using marijuana ?
I was I put on kpin the other day I've been through alcohol withdrawal before it was absolutely terrible covid felt better than alcohol withdrawal
Benzo withdrawals worse than coming off heroin. Nothing's worse than coming off methadone
Id pop 10 bars and accuse my friends of robbing me lol
If I ever get a prescription, I'll slowly store some every prescription.
They can cut you off just because.
I had a low opinion of psychiatry before listening to this
This is still not enough for you to have a "higher" level opinion of psychiatry. It takes years of research.
25% don't make it off of them
I took a LOT of valium for many years. tapered off over a week. pretty sure I had a seizure or 3. it was worse than detoxing from opiates. really wish a do tor would prescribe me some more 😕
Why do you want them to prescribe you more if it was so bad for you?
@@DoubleDash28 because used responsibly its a helpful tool.
Reading Peterson helped me with understanding that I'm an alcoholic and my life has been better since I've admitted that to myself. Often only addicts can give insights on addiction
Sounds like someone should have considered the lobster.
Withdraw off bezos is a guaranteed seizure
Not that I know, but it sounds like microdosing on psilocybin and/or supplementing Lion's Mane could really help with those coming off diazepines.
That's a rare subject but something I know about. I did Microdose mushrooms to repair my brain from benzo damage. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who's dealing with severe withdrawals as they would probably make matters worse. I waited until 18 months off benzos and it worked great for me. It's not really to help withdrawals but rather repair the brain after completing your withdrawal. I highly recommend it to people who have overcome the withdrawal period.