You need to cap the ends so there is no room for expansion. This will cause the water to find the weak spot and then you will see how they will really hold up. The freezing water is just expanding where there is open air to move.
I have always wondered the same. I have friends who are on both sides of the fence with winterizing, my takeaway from the discussions is none of them has ever had a cracked pipe or fitting. And it gets pretty cold up here in the NW during the winter. So just blow mine out and dump the hot water heater.
I have an on-going discussion every year with a good friend who only blows his lines out with air, while I, (call me "old belt & suspenders,") each fall both blows the lines out, and the pumps in anti-freeze. I've never (yet) had an issue, even though last winter it got to minus 23 below Fahrenheit here in our area. My friend had to replace the foot valve on their toilet as in blowing out the system he failed to step on the valve to get water out of it. I've always thought that if you have some water in "open" lines, as you demonstrated, it would probably be okay, but if you trap said water, (as in a closed valve,) the expansion has to go somewhere, and that's usually whatever is trapping it!! Thanks for doing this test, I believe my theories are correct, as are yours!!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
I have been a plumber for 42 years and we started off with galvanized pipe (plugged up over time to just a pin hole), went to copper (better but developed pin holes reacting to chlorine), PVC and CPVC were good but became brittle over time, and then came PEX better than anything on the market today and expands when frozen but will burst if under enough pressure. If the connections are properly installed they won't ever leak and will take a lot of flex and movement. The thing you need to worry about is water in the water pump, if it freezes the pump is probably runed. I live is SC not far from you and never winterize my camper. Imagine 2970 but have it plugged in all winter when not in use..
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
I would not be completely satisfied until the tubes were full of water and both ends capped off. Then you will get the maximum pressure on the fittings and the tubing. To me, that would emulate real world conditions, also leave them in the rack and let them thaw out naturally with a towel underneath to see if any pin hole leaks that may have been missed show up.
You don't need to get all the water out of the system as long as the water has room to expand when it freezes it will not cause damage. So just opening your low point drains would be enough
Ive been having the debate about just blowing out, or blowing and adding anti freeze. Great info thanks.... We live in GA and we just walked through the wander store in Clayton for the first time a few weeks back. Loved it!
Mike Anderson I’m in the process of freezing this setup multiple times to see if it makes a difference. We love downtown Clayton. So many great little shops and restaurants there now. They’ve really done a wonderful job revitalizing!
Did you think about putting pressure on the pipes after the thaw? There could be cracks that didn't leak under no pressure. Under pressure you might get some seeping. Just a thought.
If you blow out the water lines then pump in antifreeze you will actually use less antifreeze. We live in Pennsylvania and it gets fairly cold here so I blow out the water lines and put antifreeze in them and the traps and gray and black tank to keep the seals in the flush valves lubricated
Im digging it, but just something about that peace of mind running antifreeze through the lines. But good info about the lack of cracks at zero degrees. Thanks
I will undoubtedly use antifreeze for my "main" winterization. I do feel better about blowing them out for a "temporary" winterization between trips in early spring though.
Yeah, but I just gotta do the anti freeze. I do have several friends who say, "you don't need that antifreeze stuff, just blow um out.". As bad as I wanna jump on that wagon, I just can't. Good study 👍
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
My 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2400bh has both pex and regular hose for its water system. Perhaps the hose parts are the only weak links. (especially the spray port)
A hairline crack in the fitting or pipe may not show up until under pressure, The repeated freezing & thawing is what crack concrete and asphalt. Freeze expansion may apply compression stress repeatedly in the clamp area that would not show until under pressure. Your test is a good beginning. It lacks the TIME and # of repeated freezings - pressure - freezings that will occur over time!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
What a great video! Thanks for that... I have always wondered. We have never had a pipe or joint break.. we did split our Water heater once... expensive mistake.
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
As long as the ice has somewhere to expand, it will not burst the pipe. Leaving you faucets open allows air to escape and the ice to expand. Most pipes that have no expansion room (air space, open faucet) are the ones that probably will rupture. By blowing the lines clear with air, you remove most of the water and gives the ice a chance to expand into the air space. Another place ice can rupture a line is at a weak point in the line. A hairline crack, nick in the line, poor or bad connection are places that you can expect an issue. We lived in northern MN for a time and our trailer would be parked in the yard. I'd use 35 psi air to blow the lines clear and never had an issue during winters of -40 and lower. And that was a trailer with a mix of copper and plastic (not PEX) lines. I did use RV antifreeze in the toilet bowl to protect the seal so it wouldn't dry out and cause it's own issues. Just make sure you keep the air pressure below the max PSI your water system is designed for. I always figured that old trailer was a maximum 40 psi. Never had a leak, but you need to know your maximum PSI and stay below it.
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
Over the years, PVC and CPVC will crack Keep an eye on that--you likely do. I'm debating Pex vs. Sch 40. CPVC seems more prone to becoming brittle. There's a black Pex now: One particular type indicates "residential." I saw these at Lowes....
Awesome vid Cory. Unrelated question, Are you going to do any more cooking vids? I bought a Pitboss Pro Series Pellet Smoker and I thing I may do a few. Thanks
I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon. Thank you for requesting this idea!!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
Great point!: Accirding to pressure washer manuals, machines,, stored in typical freezing situations, indicate that their pumps should be "pickled." Sta-bil "conveniently* comes to the rescue, here!
Why? Lines wouldn’t be pressurized in storage. That was the idea behind this vid. Would trapped water (after blowing your lines out for winter) freeze and burst a fitting?
Your video would be much better without the mind numbing noise. Honestly! Why does the world thing noise improves things. I could understand some real low volume piano or even guitar. Like, really low. But as Biden says come on man. Joe Biden is mr burns on the Simpsons.
Lemme see if I can get you a refund… Honestly! We’re a homegrown channel and continue to learn. Critique is always welcomed but your style is tacky… just some critique of your criticism… 🤣
You need to cap the ends so there is no room for expansion. This will cause the water to find the weak spot and then you will see how they will really hold up. The freezing water is just expanding where there is open air to move.
Or water freezes from the outside in essentially "locking" the water in place and pressurizing the fixture to failure...
@@WanderingWeekends No, the freezing will be able to push the frozen part outward,
I have always wondered the same. I have friends who are on both sides of the fence with winterizing, my takeaway from the discussions is none of them has ever had a cracked pipe or fitting. And it gets pretty cold up here in the NW during the winter. So just blow mine out and dump the hot water heater.
I have an on-going discussion every year with a good friend who only blows his lines out with air, while I, (call me "old belt & suspenders,") each fall both blows the lines out, and the pumps in anti-freeze. I've never (yet) had an issue, even though last winter it got to minus 23 below Fahrenheit here in our area. My friend had to replace the foot valve on their toilet as in blowing out the system he failed to step on the valve to get water out of it. I've always thought that if you have some water in "open" lines, as you demonstrated, it would probably be okay, but if you trap said water, (as in a closed valve,) the expansion has to go somewhere, and that's usually whatever is trapping it!! Thanks for doing this test, I believe my theories are correct, as are yours!!
gac914 you make a good point. I like seeing that pink stuff come through the lines!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
Wandering Weekends what did you discover upon refreezing brass fittings a third, 4th, 5th time WW? Ever get a failure?
I have been a plumber for 42 years and we started off with galvanized pipe (plugged up over time to just a pin hole), went to copper (better but developed pin holes reacting to chlorine), PVC and CPVC were good but became brittle over time, and then came PEX better than anything on the market today and expands when frozen but will burst if under enough pressure. If the connections are properly installed they won't ever leak and will take a lot of flex and movement. The thing you need to worry about is water in the water pump, if it freezes the pump is probably runed.
I live is SC not far from you and never winterize my camper. Imagine 2970 but have it plugged in all winter when not in use..
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
I would not be completely satisfied until the tubes were full of water and both ends capped off. Then you will get the maximum pressure on the fittings and the tubing. To me, that would emulate real world conditions, also leave them in the rack and let them thaw out naturally with a towel underneath to see if any pin hole leaks that may have been missed show up.
You don't need to get all the water out of the system as long as the water has room to expand when it freezes it will not cause damage. So just opening your low point drains would be enough
Ive been having the debate about just blowing out, or blowing and adding anti freeze. Great info thanks.... We live in GA and we just walked through the wander store in Clayton for the first time a few weeks back. Loved it!
Mike Anderson I’m in the process of freezing this setup multiple times to see if it makes a difference. We love downtown Clayton. So many great little shops and restaurants there now. They’ve really done a wonderful job revitalizing!
the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
This was a great idea, I wish I had thought of it to put on my channel. LOL This is good information to have. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Haha... I've watched many a vid with that same thought!!!
You should close the ends. This way expands but don't make any pressure.
Did you think about putting pressure on the pipes after the thaw? There could be cracks that didn't leak under no pressure. Under pressure you might get some seeping.
Just a thought.
Tom McL oh yeah... we’re playing around with the setup some.
If you blow out the water lines then pump in antifreeze you will actually use less antifreeze.
We live in Pennsylvania and it gets fairly cold here so I blow out the water lines and put antifreeze in them and the traps and gray and black tank to keep the seals in the flush valves lubricated
Frank Mitzen great point about the seals! Many folks forget them.
Im digging it, but just something about that peace of mind running antifreeze through the lines. But good info about the lack of cracks at zero degrees. Thanks
I will undoubtedly use antifreeze for my "main" winterization. I do feel better about blowing them out for a "temporary" winterization between trips in early spring though.
@@WanderingWeekends just an FYI, Ryan and I are dry camping now with 6in of snow on the ground. Electric blankets are the best! Lol
Yeah, but I just gotta do the anti freeze. I do have several friends who say, "you don't need that antifreeze stuff, just blow um out.". As bad as I wanna jump on that wagon, I just can't. Good study 👍
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
@@WanderingWeekends Now it's getting interesting.
The expansion on only the one side is probably due to tge direction of the airflow inside the freezer.
Maybe… but really the question here was whether it would be allowed to expand up the lines OR would it split the lines/connector.
better test is to fill the lines and crimp plugs on the ends.
Been done.
How did they react to being frozen with the ends crimped?
My 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2400bh has both pex and regular hose for its water system. Perhaps the hose parts are the only weak links. (especially the spray port)
cullinan18 in the process of freezing this setup multiple times. We will see if it makes a difference!
Thank you
Welcome!
*Your info is so spot on.............and easy to understand...............thanks*
I appreciate that... I always feel like I talk too much... haha
@@WanderingWeekends You video is to the point and interesting..........I know I talk to much[😛
@@TheArtofRVing no way!
A hairline crack in the fitting or pipe may not show up until under pressure, The repeated freezing & thawing is what crack concrete and asphalt. Freeze expansion may apply compression stress repeatedly in the clamp area that would not show until under pressure. Your test is a good beginning. It lacks the TIME and # of repeated freezings - pressure - freezings that will occur over time!
You make great points! I should re-freeze several times. I'll look for a way to place these test fixtures under pressure too!
@@WanderingWeekends You must put them under pressure to know if they will leak. I completely agree with the Fabricator's points. Laws of Physics!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
We had pex lines installed in barn, to replace pvc. We noticed a drop in water pressure. Is this normal?
What a great video! Thanks for that... I have always wondered. We have never had a pipe or joint break.. we did split our Water heater once... expensive mistake.
Happy Place Diaries 😣 we have a vid coming up that involves an old RV water heater... *insert evil laugh here* 😂😂
@@WanderingWeekends looking forward to it.. love your channel!
Happy Place Diaries thank you!! Sincerely appreciate that!
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
Should fill them full of straight water, and somehow get get 40 to 50 ft. Lbs. Of pressure on them and then freeze them.
Nice video! We have a Grand Design Imagine 2970 RL. We are releasing our tour video sometime soon.
Oh fun!! Looking forward to it. Love that floorplan.
Should of used a caliper to measure pex thawed vs froze to see if it expanded
Brock Hoover not a bad idea... it is designed to stretch a bit. Maybe next time!
As long as the ice has somewhere to expand, it will not burst the pipe. Leaving you faucets open allows air to escape and the ice to expand. Most pipes that have no expansion room (air space, open faucet) are the ones that probably will rupture. By blowing the lines clear with air, you remove most of the water and gives the ice a chance to expand into the air space.
Another place ice can rupture a line is at a weak point in the line. A hairline crack, nick in the line, poor or bad connection are places that you can expect an issue.
We lived in northern MN for a time and our trailer would be parked in the yard. I'd use 35 psi air to blow the lines clear and never had an issue during winters of -40 and lower. And that was a trailer with a mix of copper and plastic (not PEX) lines. I did use RV antifreeze in the toilet bowl to protect the seal so it wouldn't dry out and cause it's own issues.
Just make sure you keep the air pressure below the max PSI your water system is designed for. I always figured that old trailer was a maximum 40 psi. Never had a leak, but you need to know your maximum PSI and stay below it.
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
Over the years, PVC and CPVC will crack Keep an eye on that--you likely do.
I'm debating Pex vs. Sch 40.
CPVC seems more prone to becoming brittle.
There's a black Pex now: One particular type indicates "residential." I saw these at Lowes....
Awesome vid Cory. Unrelated question, Are you going to do any more cooking vids? I bought a Pitboss Pro Series Pellet Smoker and I thing I may do a few. Thanks
None on the schedule right now. I am about 5 weeks behind on vids. I'd love to watch a Southern Adventures cooking vid!
@@WanderingWeekends Hope to do one soon!
Can you redo the test with multiple freeze/thawing cycles? Would be very interesting.
Louis Hong just put em back in the freezer!!! Let’s do it!!!
I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon. Thank you for requesting this idea!!
@@WanderingWeekends thanks for the test!
Need to cap ends to allow real pressures
…why? Just leave faucets open right?
Just wondering how it would do being frozen more than 24 hours. Thanks for the video.
This was certainly a "hard" freeze. I need to re-freeze several times for a real test.
They’re back in the freezer for a multiple freeze test...
@@WanderingWeekends Thanks! Looking forward to seeing the results.
Well... due to many requests I am in the process of re-freezing this setup multiple times... the poly connectors failed on the first re-freeze. Brass will go back in the freezer this afternoon.
@@WanderingWeekends WOW! Scary.
Same experiment but with pressure in the pipes for a more real idea
I've always blown my lines. But I do run antifreeze through the pump, and drains. Great video Cory
Thanks man... cures some curiosity anyway!
Great point!: Accirding to pressure washer manuals, machines,, stored in typical freezing situations, indicate that their pumps should be "pickled."
Sta-bil "conveniently* comes to the rescue, here!
Nice video
Is PEX A a BETTER Pex?
I'm not sure I know the difference... sorry, just an ole hillbilly here.
piping should be pressurized like normal household piping (15-30 PSI) and then freezed..
Why? Lines wouldn’t be pressurized in storage. That was the idea behind this vid. Would trapped water (after blowing your lines out for winter) freeze and burst a fitting?
Your video would be much better without the mind numbing noise. Honestly! Why does the world thing noise improves things. I could understand some real low volume piano or even guitar. Like, really low. But as Biden says come on man. Joe Biden is mr burns on the Simpsons.
Lemme see if I can get you a refund…
Honestly! We’re a homegrown channel and continue to learn. Critique is always welcomed but your style is tacky… just some critique of your criticism… 🤣