Couple of bonus points. Concord numbers emerging now say $350-400million all in Sony are doing it again. Look at their deal buying bungie for 2 billion to produce marathon which is currently on the same trajectory as concord for next year. And nobody was playing fortnite before battle royale, that was a quick rebrand of a failed game to take advantage of the success of PUBG.
Bungie seriously need to stop Marathon. If they carry on, it needs a serious USP. I am deeply attached to Destiny now, but it has avoidably been dying for a few years now. Resources have been diverted to Marathon (no doubt at the behest of Sony), and they have become creatively bankrupt - attached to a cycle that hasn't changed since 2020, nothing particularly 'new' about game modes, Exotic Missions, Raids or Dungeons. They SERIOUSLY need to take a look at Warframe at depth. That is a game that has garnered a constant and committed community through developer/player trust that has been compounded by very strong community engagement, mechanical risk-taking (RNG maps, then open-worlds, totally new avatar mechanics, different game modes per planet, etc.). You don't hear about layoffs, player drop-offs, a lack of engagement or quality dips... ever. It suffers from a few kinks in the armour, like timed crafting and monetised colours, but otherwise has an almost flawless design for both business and the player. Bungie need to ditch Marathon, and put that kind of effort in righting the ship for Destiny 2. Especially if they want to dodge another Concord situation.
Speaking of religious films, my husband and his mate went to see the passion of the christ way back when. When Pilate asked 'whom shall you have me release?' My husband yelled 'release Brian!'.
I can't imagine a ghostbuster remake with a male cast would have been any better. Remakes just tend to be awful. Apart from maybe The Fly and The Thing.
The movie had a talented cast but the producers decided that was enough and the project didn’t need a script. Many of the cited cases are due to cynical filmmakers deciding ALL they need is a diverse cast or a progressive subject but not a quality script.
Me too! Also not a fan of the last Jedi and the character Rey and I am really tired of hearing that there is something wrong with me for not liking both movies. 🤷♀
@@CT99234 That's the point. Had the Ghostbusters remake starred men, it would've been just as bad. For the vast majority of people, their criticism and derision of the film was simply because it was terrible. Poorly conceived and very poorly written.
Maybe the movies and shows listed were review bombed because they are crap, rather than because they have women in the roles. I have seen most and would consider myself a feminist. I would also say that the female-led ghostbusters is an insult to the legacy of the original two films.
The thing about live service games is that for every Fortnite, LoL, WoW, EVE, Final Fantasy XIV, etc, there are hundreds of failures. It's a very risky market because it takes a lot of time and money to create them and it's impossible to know in advance which games are going to last. It's feast or famine.
Why is it that negative, often considered reviews are classed as review bombing but 5 star ratings with scant reviews are all thought of as genuine. Professional Critics of mainstream films and shows tend to overrate to maintain their access and corporate privilege, the general public review is usually a more accurate view. Marina's view that shows are review bombed because of female leads etc is typically naive and slanted, by and large the poorly reviewed shows by the public are because they were no good.
It's pretty easy to see what gets review bombed, and that's when the negastive hype is building before the show/movie is even released. A recent example is the latest series of Taskmaster. The amount of people saying they won't be watching on every post since the series 18 cast was announced, and factor in the amount that have given the two latest episodes a 1 star rating (18,9% and 15,3% of everyone who has voted) on IMDB and it's obvious it's not about not being good, but that this series feature Rosie Jones, a female lesbian comedian with cerebral palsy we know plenty of incels and similiar muck simply hate for absolute no reason at all...
@@bsmith6646 The difference is of course the incels and shitty people make life awful for the people involved in making a movie/show, and is vastly outnumbering the handful of "paid" reviews everybody know about (as Richard mentions in the podcast). Only an absolute idiot would say "works both ways" and try to equal a possible handful of dishonest raving reviews to the absolute vitrol and shit people like Rosie Jones face every f**k day on social media and target any project she or people like her get attached to... That's the real case about review bombing and trying to "understand it" and "explain it " by say absolute shit like "well actually, it isn't very good therefor it gets bad reviews" is just stupidity turned to 11... Again, bad stuff get bad reviews, but that doesn't explain the trend of certain movies and certain shows getting review bombed. These are things the people involved in making it are being targeted, not for what they do but for what they are and/or represent....
I'm not sure that argument holds water, as Taskmaster has had a hugely diverse cast over the years. Also, is anyone swayed by these reviews? It seems to me these shows are review bombed one way or the other (haters hating, shills shilling) sort of feels like they cancel each other out, and the show keeps/finds it's audience anyway. Regular Taskmaster fans aren't going to be swayed by these reviews whatever the reason for them.
@@axels9179 maybe lots of people don't find her funny, also the majority of contestants on taskmaster now are relatively unknown so less appealing , they've used up most of the bigger names
First person shooter games like Concord are, almost exclusivly, free to play. They rely on ingame purchases to make money. They are free because such games live and die based on their playerbase. No players, no game. And nobody wants to spend £40 on Concord when well established titles are free, and already have players and a community around them. Thats the reason the game failed. Sony didn't understand the market they where entering
If the price point was the factor, then the (free to all) beta would've pulled in way more players than it did. I think Concord's failure goes beyond its asking price to be honest. It was doomed from the very start. It's just a fundamentally unappealing product that everyone hated at first sight.
I'm glad it's acknowledged that while the videogame industry has been worth way more than Hollywood for decades, it still feels like it's niche. News coverage regarding games almost never makes newspapers and other mainstream media despite being enormous money makers and a huge part of many people's lives
I remember going to E3 the year after " Ocarina of time " made more money than "Armageddon" It was no longer an electronics industry convention but a big time Hollywood convention
New Testament guys, not Genesis , not Noah! He has done it without Hollywood! Noah's Arc has been done as a movie and it was done really well. He wants it to appeal to everyone rather than just the choir.
Never thought that I'd hear Concord getting a shoutout on this channel, great to see it be discussed. The reasons for its failure appear to be many and various (I should say I am not one of the ~600 people who paid money for it), but can essentially be summarised as the game wasn't daring enough. It seemed to play it safe and had no obvious USP that would make people want to play it - besides some distinctly ugly and unhelpful character designs. In film terms it would be like comparing Indiana Jones 5 (The something Maguffin) to The Empire Strikes Back, one is bland the other is impactful. Live Service Games live and die by their player numbers as Richard correctly pointed out and need to come out with a rollout plan which keeps players engaged. A great example that Richard mentioned is Helldivers 2, which was also published by Sony, which has a games master who works for Arrowhead (the developer) manages the various unlocks and enemy factions for the war the players are engaged in. It also sticks out that Helldivers 2 is extremely funny and has a clear identity. That is not the case for Concord. I suspect that the profits from the former will be used to eat the loss for the latter.
You can't just remake something and throw a diverse cast of people at it and expect it to do as well, you need great acting/storytelling you can't just blame people for review bombing if it is genuinely a bad movie 😅
yeah the thing that constantly comes up is the "female cast..." but then there are female lead IPs that are massively beloved, It has become an easy out for poor and lazy writing to blame it on sexist fans rather than look in the mirror and say what a piss poor job they've done
Nah I call BS on that, there’s plenty of bad films with male leads that do not get review bombed as badly as ones with female leads. To ignore the incredible amount of sexism in online discourse is to condone it
@@killthomas8373 of course there is and always will be sexism a good example is perhaps the Witcher series I'm a fan of the ip and I loved season one, many people review bombed because the women weren't the right shade of color but it scored OK in the end then followed season 2 which I personally thought was OK not as good as 1 and the reviews seem to follow that line and then 3 came out and has been review bombed, they changed many things from the IP and the new story telling didn't hold up, yes some people didn't like the "race swaps" or the changing of some characters sexual orientation but that wouldn't of matterd if the story was really good it would of broke through the hate
I think World of Warcraft might be up there, maybe not the biggest but it has had millions of players for 20 years now, so you have millions of people paying 10+ dollars a month + buying new expansions every 2 years + cosmetics + gold + mounts/pets + services. It is A LOT!
Review bombing is a big problem. The conservatives hate post-2017 doctors who have done this, and it hurts the genuine debate. It's just trolling. The Persian Version is another one being hit by Iranian bots and pro-regime people (on the google reviews). This is a shame because it is a stunning movie, and its scores don't reflect it, which might put people off from watching it. However, on the other side, critics can be rather snobbish over specific genres and often look for masterpieces too often. There have been a few times where I watched a movie with a bad review and the watched the movie and thought it wasn't that bad, it was just fine.
Just try remaking Mean Girls but replacing all the cast with boys. Then make it less funny, poorly paced and with one dimensional characters. I guarantee ‘Mean Boys’ would get just as trounced as the female Ghostbusters. The issue is it was a bad film made worse because the core audience of the original couldn’t even enjoy it nostalgically.
well, the bad reviews for the films and series with a female led cast could also be founded on the fact, that they are bad.....Mare of Easttown got great reviews, because it is a very good story, told and acted well.
It's great cover for the manosphere types that some of these are, indeed, bad... But ask yourself why you're defending review-bombing. Bad movies and TV series should be poorly reviewed in their own right, they don't need a manosphere pile-on to exaggerate it. Those pile-ons certainly exist: a lot of people were primed and ready to bomb things like Rings of Power and the Star Wars sequel trilogy - long before they were actually released and we all got to see that they were, indeed, bad. Those movies didn't need the misogynistic review-bombing added to them, people were already going to acknowledge that they were bad without it; review-bombing is a separate and distinct phenomenon to bad reviews of bad media.
@phueal the issue I think you are missing is that most of these shows go out of their way to create a gender divide or bring gender into it. How many shows come out and go this is a man's show for men, men are taking back control etc
@@tana1234 but review-bombing is still unnecessary. If those decisions by studios result in bad shows, those shows can be honestly reviewed badly. Review-bombing is people who don’t actually care whether a show is good or not just grinding their political axe. They’re using review scores as a way to try and hurt the studio because it made a decision they don’t like, rather than as a way to communicate useful information to potential viewers. If a new Bond movie came out with Jamie Bond being played by Madonna, people should be judging that movie on whether she put in a good performance, the script, direction, etc. - including how well they feel it fits with the established IP - they shouldn’t be bombing the movie before they’ve even seen it just because they don’t like the very idea of a female Bond. That’s not them reviewing a movie, that’s them making a political point.
Concorde there was a lot of mixed information...like some say 8 years some say 6 or 5 and some people say cost 200 million and some say cost well over 400 million......but it the end it does not make the blindest bit of difference...still took time and a lot of money. With a hero shooter people have to watch a trailer and see characters that appeal to them and if it does not then they have failed as no one will try the game.
Sony had to put $200m into making the game playable after acquiring Firewalk studios (Concord been the only main title they were developing i believe) - so factoring in development costs and future projected earnings etc etc they minimum spent $300m before having to to put $200m into making the game 'playable - the was a half BILLION dollar disaster!!
The big problems with Live service games are time, money and interest. There is only a finite amount for people to invest in games, so companies can only compete for so much before it fizzles out. I also suspect it is a new bubble which will burst at some point.
Nice to see you talk about games. The chase of live service money and the stumbles caused by it (especially Sony) is such an interesting and important entertainment story
Concord coverage has been huge, but not in general media. In specialist media, social media and especially RUclips it was everywhere. These are outlets that I'm guessing Richard's son is very familiar with, Dad, not so much.
Why throw in that recommendation for Agatha All Along at the end with no explanation of why you recommend it? The show is bloody awful, so I’d live to know why a successful author thinks it’s worth watching!
There are reports of Concord costing more than 400 million to develop and "toxic positivity" on the project - no criticism allowed. It sounds like development by committe and sales teams rather than people who understood the mind of gamers and the market they were trying to influence.
Rarely see two people who know so little about review bombing, talk at length about… review bombing Ps. Sometimes things really are that bad, like that Ghostbusters and The Acolyte and indeed most MCU stuff post-Endgame Bad writing often equals bad user reviews
The reason why the Ghostbusters remake got terrible reviews wasn't because it starred women. It's because it was a terrible movie. The reason why the trailer recieved so many down votes isn't because the film starred women. It's because it was a terrible trailer to a terrible movie. Furthermore, it was a terrible remake of a beloved intellectual property. The whole sexism thing was played up by the studio in order to deflect from the fact that the movie was awful.
Yes and no. The trailer was truly atrocius, but the film itself was just mid to bad and obv couldn't stand up to the expectations. But the female cast thing was certainly a part of it, to some people. As you said it was played up, it wasn't totally manufctured.
Partially agree. It wasn't a great movie, and that was compounded by the fact that it was a remake of a beloved film. But there was a lot of sexism involved, too.
@@odkres The film was truly terrible. The sexism was insignificant, but the actors and director made a mountain out of a molehill in order to take the attention away from the valid and justified criticisms that people had of the film.
As a Ghostbusters fan who saw this go down it was played up but it was still there. The irony is that the sexism was mainly done by General dorks and not by anyone in the Ghostbusters Community. I feel like that sort of narrative has sadly only gotten worse over time where a lot of geeks and dorks who don't know anything about these properties or just hating on it because DEI And such bullshit instead of like the actual or lack thereof of merit in the execution of the property itself. Concorde was one of those and as someone who is quote" left-wing no amount of character pronouns would ever cover up for that insanely awful, realistic rendered art style and it's boring gameplay that they've decided to charge actual money for.
Interesting where you are talking about how massively profitable the likes of Fortnite are, and in definitely is. As another interesting point about financial success, I believe Pokémon is the overall most profitable franchise.
More nonsense about review bombing. If you actually investigate it rather than cherry picking a few films to suit what you have already decided you might learn something.
Re: Review bombing; While I would not take part, I do believe it is a balancing factor , as their is no doubt in my mind that official critics these days have little integrity and are at the behest of large production companies , whether it is for some sort of financial incentive (investors , perks etc) or just remaining on the access list. The large independant negative critiques balances itself out. My wife and I will watch 2 shows of anything we are interested in. If it does not take by then we will drop regardless of what critics say. The power of making your own mind up is liberating.
You know, I have noticed a trend in the response to "Review Bombing" in "Male dominated Fandoms", where there is no analysis of whether the the content is actually good or bad, because any movie starring a woman HAS to be good, so any negative response is mIsOgYNy, right? I mean, you actually used She Hulk as an example, She Hulk of all things, I'm sorry but Marvel fan or not, regardless of your gender, race, background, beliefs, or anything, that is just an objectively bad series. A show with lawyers where no-one in the writers room knew anything about the law, with zero character development or arc, and using some of the most cringe-worthy tropes unironically... They actually built in an "Undo" button at the end because even they knew how bad it was! 🤦♂
These are starting to show how disconnected they are from the real world. First off please to talking about Computer Games as its simply embrassing.. Nothing worse than watching a couple of boomers talking something that they zero knowledge off. Secondly the 2016 Ghostbusters failed because they if took 4 of the world's best comedians and utterly wasted then with an awful script. They literally created one dimensional characters which were awful stereotypes for each Comedian and then got upset when they got called out for it.
@@blackrosecomb a comment is a comment, I agree it's not a *useful* or insightful comment, I just got giddy that it popped up on my feed 30 seconds after upload :-) I have now watched and it is as good as ever, I never knew how important Rotten Tomatoes was, always assumed it was just a bit of hobby project for someone.
As a big fan of imdb, the smart move is looking at the score bar chart for a film rather than the top line score, were you see the 'bell curve' distribution of scores, which shows you where the 'real' average is, then big spikes of 1 and 10 which are your review bombers, blind fanboys and people trying to counter review bombers.
Star wars is a poor example given Rogue One and The Force Awakens got good reviews. Maybe the Last Jedi was just rubbish. Other good films like Hidden Figures, The Favourite etc have good ratings. Again, maybe Ghostbusters was crap
Can we have top 5 UK dramas...or 10. I live in Cambodia and so forget how much I love our stuff. You put me on to Slow Horses and I loved it so much. More please. Ps. I've not been home for nine years.
Are there actually any great films which have been effectively "review-bombed" though? I'm not convinced that a small group of gatekeeping man-children really manage to sway the scores that much. If the audience score is that bad, it usually means the film has failed to achieve broad appeal.
@@PianoKwanMan But again: The opening ceremony just wasn’t very good. I watched quite a lot of it, unaware of any political controversy, and I thought it was strange, slow, boring, and disjointed, lacking atmosphere and spectacle, with poor camerawork, and an over-reliance on stars who weren’t even French.
@@andybrice2711 i enjoyed it thoroughly, though. So, maybe I'm anti-review bombed it by showing its praise? And if we go down the anti-review bomb, Les Miserables original production was a flop, but a few said it was good and through word of mouth the public liked it, even though the experts despised it
@@PianoKwanMan Well, sure, it’s all largely a matter of taste. Apparently the French audience mostly liked the ceremony. But I think most of the bad reviews were because a lot of people just didn’t enjoy it. Not because of the few people who found it offensive.
@@PianoKwanMan Regarding Les Miserables: There are works which have mass appeal, but fail to impress critics. Because those critics are either more discerning, or more snobbish (depending on how you look at it). You can see that same distinction in the difference between Rotten Tomatoes’ critics and audience scores.
What's wild about the Concord flop is Sony and the game's developers saw this as an anchor franchise akin to Star Wars. Sony, on top of the development cost (credible sources put it closer to $400 million) Sony also bought the development studio, Firewalk Studios. According to the same source the cost of the purchase is not included in that $400 million. The level of delusion at Sony over this game was absolutely insane.
I just can't imagine putting any stock in the audience scores tbh. Open online surveys (which is effectively what this is) are a terrible way to gather data.
The trend Marina is noticing is badly written projects. Nothing to do with having female actors in it. Look at the popularity of Alien, Aliens, Terminator, Terminator 2, with amazing women leads. No mention of critics handing out top marks to truly awful films with the "correct" politics. No mention of Rotten Tomatoes constantly rigging the rules to protect large corporations. No mention of organised "positive" review bombing in support of terrible movies with the "correct" politics. Concord is twice the flop you think it is. Sony spent $400 million, as they acquired the studio as well as the game.
I wonder what’s your thoughts on Critical Roll - the streamers who play dnd, very successful, I think the kickstarter to fund the animated prime series is still top of kickstarters all time most funded list…
I recently watched Rebel Ridge on Netflix because the RT critic score was 97%, which made me think it must be good. (FWIW I thought it was an enjoyable, solid thriller 7.5/10.)
PUBG popularized the battle royale format a year before fortnite. It wasn't the first battle royale on the market and it didn't invent the genre by any stretch of the imagination. It did however merge terrain modification and building mechanics with the BR format which appealed to lots of younger gamers at the time who had been introduced to gaming through Minecraft.
Forbes has a good article about Concord and what went wrong. The estimate is actually $400m put into the game and they thought it was going to be the “new Star Wars” and a platform seller. Reports from people involved in the development was that their was a culture of “toxic positivity” where everyone had to tow the line of how wonderful this game was going to be and critical feedback was not welcome at any stage
The sad thing is the video game industry has been filled with stories like Concord in the last four years. WBD posted a $250 million dollar loss for their live service game Sucide Squad, while the Marvel Avengers closed down after two and a half years.
The sad thing about the female Ghostbusters remake is that it could have been great. They just needed an original story . The cast was good the effects were fine . But the script was terrible . The idea behind it was flawed. The Ghostbusters should have been the daughters and nieces of the original Ghostbusters . It would have been fantastic if it had just had new idea.
Yes review bombing nothing to do with a terrible writer ignoring bellittling and pissing the fans off by changing what made the show what it was. Half the Hollywood critics are paid to watch the movie that’s why they say there great
Shocked this doesn't get more views, especially with Richard Osman. Always find it really interesting and entertaining and (bar the Now TV plugs) there's way less adverts than on podcast audio listening
Interesting segment on video games. I feel like you can't talk about entertainment without mentioning video games in all of their many forms. I think this is a world that should be mentioned more in the mainstream and I loved your thoughts on these topics. Great job as usual.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
"Noah, he's got a massive arc" genuinely made me laugh out loud.
Richard’s dad jokes are unstoppable in this ep.
Pure quality 😂
Couple of bonus points.
Concord numbers emerging now say $350-400million all in
Sony are doing it again. Look at their deal buying bungie for 2 billion to produce marathon which is currently on the same trajectory as concord for next year.
And nobody was playing fortnite before battle royale, that was a quick rebrand of a failed game to take advantage of the success of PUBG.
Bungie seriously need to stop Marathon. If they carry on, it needs a serious USP.
I am deeply attached to Destiny now, but it has avoidably been dying for a few years now. Resources have been diverted to Marathon (no doubt at the behest of Sony), and they have become creatively bankrupt - attached to a cycle that hasn't changed since 2020, nothing particularly 'new' about game modes, Exotic Missions, Raids or Dungeons.
They SERIOUSLY need to take a look at Warframe at depth. That is a game that has garnered a constant and committed community through developer/player trust that has been compounded by very strong community engagement, mechanical risk-taking (RNG maps, then open-worlds, totally new avatar mechanics, different game modes per planet, etc.). You don't hear about layoffs, player drop-offs, a lack of engagement or quality dips... ever. It suffers from a few kinks in the armour, like timed crafting and monetised colours, but otherwise has an almost flawless design for both business and the player.
Bungie need to ditch Marathon, and put that kind of effort in righting the ship for Destiny 2. Especially if they want to dodge another Concord situation.
Speaking of religious films, my husband and his mate went to see the passion of the christ way back when. When Pilate asked 'whom shall you have me release?' My husband yelled 'release Brian!'.
Brilliant! Shake that man's hand from me.
welease Bwian!
@@alanhill6974 HE'S A WOBBER
I hope someone replied welease woderick
That’s fabulous I actually laughed out loud.
I'm a woman and I genuinely thought Ghostbusters was awful.
I can't imagine a ghostbuster remake with a male cast would have been any better. Remakes just tend to be awful. Apart from maybe The Fly and The Thing.
The movie had a talented cast but the producers decided that was enough and the project didn’t need a script. Many of the cited cases are due to cynical filmmakers deciding ALL they need is a diverse cast or a progressive subject but not a quality script.
Great cast, terrible movie
Me too! Also not a fan of the last Jedi and the character Rey and I am really tired of hearing that there is something wrong with me for not liking both movies. 🤷♀
@@CT99234 That's the point. Had the Ghostbusters remake starred men, it would've been just as bad.
For the vast majority of people, their criticism and derision of the film was simply because it was terrible. Poorly conceived and very poorly written.
Maybe the movies and shows listed were review bombed because they are crap, rather than because they have women in the roles. I have seen most and would consider myself a feminist. I would also say that the female-led ghostbusters is an insult to the legacy of the original two films.
The thing about live service games is that for every Fortnite, LoL, WoW, EVE, Final Fantasy XIV, etc, there are hundreds of failures. It's a very risky market because it takes a lot of time and money to create them and it's impossible to know in advance which games are going to last. It's feast or famine.
Why is it that negative, often considered reviews are classed as review bombing but 5 star ratings with scant reviews are all thought of as genuine. Professional Critics of mainstream films and shows tend to overrate to maintain their access and corporate privilege, the general public review is usually a more accurate view. Marina's view that shows are review bombed because of female leads etc is typically naive and slanted, by and large the poorly reviewed shows by the public are because they were no good.
It's pretty easy to see what gets review bombed, and that's when the negastive hype is building before the show/movie is even released. A recent example is the latest series of Taskmaster. The amount of people saying they won't be watching on every post since the series 18 cast was announced, and factor in the amount that have given the two latest episodes a 1 star rating (18,9% and 15,3% of everyone who has voted) on IMDB and it's obvious it's not about not being good, but that this series feature Rosie Jones, a female lesbian comedian with cerebral palsy we know plenty of incels and similiar muck simply hate for absolute no reason at all...
@@axels9179and just as easy to see shills and paid journos give 5 star reviews about movies that are utter garbage. Works both ways.
@@bsmith6646 The difference is of course the incels and shitty people make life awful for the people involved in making a movie/show, and is vastly outnumbering the handful of "paid" reviews everybody know about (as Richard mentions in the podcast). Only an absolute idiot would say "works both ways" and try to equal a possible handful of dishonest raving reviews to the absolute vitrol and shit people like Rosie Jones face every f**k day on social media and target any project she or people like her get attached to...
That's the real case about review bombing and trying to "understand it" and "explain it " by say absolute shit like "well actually, it isn't very good therefor it gets bad reviews" is just stupidity turned to 11...
Again, bad stuff get bad reviews, but that doesn't explain the trend of certain movies and certain shows getting review bombed. These are things the people involved in making it are being targeted, not for what they do but for what they are and/or represent....
I'm not sure that argument holds water, as Taskmaster has had a hugely diverse cast over the years.
Also, is anyone swayed by these reviews? It seems to me these shows are review bombed one way or the other (haters hating, shills shilling) sort of feels like they cancel each other out, and the show keeps/finds it's audience anyway. Regular Taskmaster fans aren't going to be swayed by these reviews whatever the reason for them.
@@axels9179 maybe lots of people don't find her funny, also the majority of contestants on taskmaster now are relatively unknown so less appealing , they've used up most of the bigger names
First person shooter games like Concord are, almost exclusivly, free to play. They rely on ingame purchases to make money. They are free because such games live and die based on their playerbase. No players, no game. And nobody wants to spend £40 on Concord when well established titles are free, and already have players and a community around them. Thats the reason the game failed. Sony didn't understand the market they where entering
If the price point was the factor, then the (free to all) beta would've pulled in way more players than it did. I think Concord's failure goes beyond its asking price to be honest. It was doomed from the very start. It's just a fundamentally unappealing product that everyone hated at first sight.
Concord failed for multiple reasons.
ruclips.net/video/-beBcC_QTxw/видео.html
A game developer on Concord's failure
I'm glad it's acknowledged that while the videogame industry has been worth way more than Hollywood for decades, it still feels like it's niche. News coverage regarding games almost never makes newspapers and other mainstream media despite being enormous money makers and a huge part of many people's lives
I remember going to E3 the year after " Ocarina of time " made more money than "Armageddon" It was no longer an electronics industry convention but a big time Hollywood convention
New Testament guys, not Genesis , not Noah! He has done it without Hollywood! Noah's Arc has been done as a movie and it was done really well. He wants it to appeal to everyone rather than just the choir.
Never thought that I'd hear Concord getting a shoutout on this channel, great to see it be discussed.
The reasons for its failure appear to be many and various (I should say I am not one of the ~600 people who paid money for it), but can essentially be summarised as the game wasn't daring enough. It seemed to play it safe and had no obvious USP that would make people want to play it - besides some distinctly ugly and unhelpful character designs. In film terms it would be like comparing Indiana Jones 5 (The something Maguffin) to The Empire Strikes Back, one is bland the other is impactful.
Live Service Games live and die by their player numbers as Richard correctly pointed out and need to come out with a rollout plan which keeps players engaged. A great example that Richard mentioned is Helldivers 2, which was also published by Sony, which has a games master who works for Arrowhead (the developer) manages the various unlocks and enemy factions for the war the players are engaged in. It also sticks out that Helldivers 2 is extremely funny and has a clear identity. That is not the case for Concord. I suspect that the profits from the former will be used to eat the loss for the latter.
You can't just remake something and throw a diverse cast of people at it and expect it to do as well, you need great acting/storytelling you can't just blame people for review bombing if it is genuinely a bad movie 😅
yeah the thing that constantly comes up is the "female cast..." but then there are female lead IPs that are massively beloved, It has become an easy out for poor and lazy writing to blame it on sexist fans rather than look in the mirror and say what a piss poor job they've done
As well- it’s still objectification of women ( no character development, etc) masked as “inclusiveness”.
Nah I call BS on that, there’s plenty of bad films with male leads that do not get review bombed as badly as ones with female leads. To ignore the incredible amount of sexism in online discourse is to condone it
Lots of people rating a movie badly because they think it's bad is not the same as review bombing. Both happened.
@@killthomas8373 of course there is and always will be sexism a good example is perhaps the Witcher series I'm a fan of the ip and I loved season one, many people review bombed because the women weren't the right shade of color but it scored OK in the end then followed season 2 which I personally thought was OK not as good as 1 and the reviews seem to follow that line and then 3 came out and has been review bombed, they changed many things from the IP and the new story telling didn't hold up, yes some people didn't like the "race swaps" or the changing of some characters sexual orientation but that wouldn't of matterd if the story was really good it would of broke through the hate
The “Bible-verse”, surely
I think World of Warcraft might be up there, maybe not the biggest but it has had millions of players for 20 years now, so you have millions of people paying 10+ dollars a month + buying new expansions every 2 years + cosmetics + gold + mounts/pets + services. It is A LOT!
Review bombing is a big problem. The conservatives hate post-2017 doctors who have done this, and it hurts the genuine debate. It's just trolling.
The Persian Version is another one being hit by Iranian bots and pro-regime people (on the google reviews). This is a shame because it is a stunning movie, and its scores don't reflect it, which might put people off from watching it.
However, on the other side, critics can be rather snobbish over specific genres and often look for masterpieces too often. There have been a few times where I watched a movie with a bad review and the watched the movie and thought it wasn't that bad, it was just fine.
Who owns the foot in the bottom right corner?
As with games, so with drugs.
Despite many flashy new pretenders, Coke and Heroin maintain a majority of addicts attention.
Just try remaking Mean Girls but replacing all the cast with boys. Then make it less funny, poorly paced and with one dimensional characters.
I guarantee ‘Mean Boys’ would get just as trounced as the female Ghostbusters. The issue is it was a bad film made worse because the core audience of the original couldn’t even enjoy it nostalgically.
well, the bad reviews for the films and series with a female led cast could also be founded on the fact, that they are bad.....Mare of Easttown got great reviews, because it is a very good story, told and acted well.
It's great cover for the manosphere types that some of these are, indeed, bad... But ask yourself why you're defending review-bombing. Bad movies and TV series should be poorly reviewed in their own right, they don't need a manosphere pile-on to exaggerate it. Those pile-ons certainly exist: a lot of people were primed and ready to bomb things like Rings of Power and the Star Wars sequel trilogy - long before they were actually released and we all got to see that they were, indeed, bad. Those movies didn't need the misogynistic review-bombing added to them, people were already going to acknowledge that they were bad without it; review-bombing is a separate and distinct phenomenon to bad reviews of bad media.
@phueal the issue I think you are missing is that most of these shows go out of their way to create a gender divide or bring gender into it. How many shows come out and go this is a man's show for men, men are taking back control etc
@@tana1234 and how does that relate to review-bombing?
@phueal what's the route cause of the review bombing, ask the why why why why why why and it all leads back to bad shows
@@tana1234 but review-bombing is still unnecessary. If those decisions by studios result in bad shows, those shows can be honestly reviewed badly. Review-bombing is people who don’t actually care whether a show is good or not just grinding their political axe. They’re using review scores as a way to try and hurt the studio because it made a decision they don’t like, rather than as a way to communicate useful information to potential viewers.
If a new Bond movie came out with Jamie Bond being played by Madonna, people should be judging that movie on whether she put in a good performance, the script, direction, etc. - including how well they feel it fits with the established IP - they shouldn’t be bombing the movie before they’ve even seen it just because they don’t like the very idea of a female Bond. That’s not them reviewing a movie, that’s them making a political point.
Concorde there was a lot of mixed information...like some say 8 years some say 6 or 5 and some people say cost 200 million and some say cost well over 400 million......but it the end it does not make the blindest bit of difference...still took time and a lot of money. With a hero shooter people have to watch a trailer and see characters that appeal to them and if it does not then they have failed as no one will try the game.
Sony had to put $200m into making the game playable after acquiring Firewalk studios (Concord been the only main title they were developing i believe) - so factoring in development costs and future projected earnings etc etc they minimum spent $300m before having to to put $200m into making the game 'playable - the was a half BILLION dollar disaster!!
The trend is that they were also bad movies 😂
The big problems with Live service games are time, money and interest. There is only a finite amount for people to invest in games, so companies can only compete for so much before it fizzles out.
I also suspect it is a new bubble which will burst at some point.
Nice to see you talk about games. The chase of live service money and the stumbles caused by it (especially Sony) is such an interesting and important entertainment story
Concord coverage has been huge, but not in general media. In specialist media, social media and especially RUclips it was everywhere. These are outlets that I'm guessing Richard's son is very familiar with, Dad, not so much.
Why throw in that recommendation for Agatha All Along at the end with no explanation of why you recommend it? The show is bloody awful, so I’d live to know why a successful author thinks it’s worth watching!
Because maybe you're wrong?
I am enjoying the better recording quality and backdrop
i honestly think in most cases the review bombing happens because the product is a steaming pile of dogshizzle
Test screenings in Wichita? wth?
The Russell Brand comment was chefs kiss
Quite the pun-tastic input from Richard in this one!
There are reports of Concord costing more than 400 million to develop and "toxic positivity" on the project - no criticism allowed. It sounds like development by committe and sales teams rather than people who understood the mind of gamers and the market they were trying to influence.
Rarely see two people who know so little about review bombing, talk at length about… review bombing
Ps. Sometimes things really are that bad, like that Ghostbusters and The Acolyte and indeed most MCU stuff post-Endgame
Bad writing often equals bad user reviews
Live service is part of the market, and a doomed one probably, it's certainly not all of the market
'no wonder Russell Brand has turned to Jesus' 😂😂
The reason why the Ghostbusters remake got terrible reviews wasn't because it starred women. It's because it was a terrible movie. The reason why the trailer recieved so many down votes isn't because the film starred women. It's because it was a terrible trailer to a terrible movie. Furthermore, it was a terrible remake of a beloved intellectual property. The whole sexism thing was played up by the studio in order to deflect from the fact that the movie was awful.
Yes and no. The trailer was truly atrocius, but the film itself was just mid to bad and obv couldn't stand up to the expectations. But the female cast thing was certainly a part of it, to some people. As you said it was played up, it wasn't totally manufctured.
Partially agree. It wasn't a great movie, and that was compounded by the fact that it was a remake of a beloved film. But there was a lot of sexism involved, too.
@@odkres The film was truly terrible. The sexism was insignificant, but the actors and director made a mountain out of a molehill in order to take the attention away from the valid and justified criticisms that people had of the film.
@@cullenjames7542 There actually wasn't. It was exaggerated by the director and cast.
As a Ghostbusters fan who saw this go down it was played up but it was still there. The irony is that the sexism was mainly done by General dorks and not by anyone in the Ghostbusters Community. I feel like that sort of narrative has sadly only gotten worse over time where a lot of geeks and dorks who don't know anything about these properties or just hating on it because DEI And such bullshit instead of like the actual or lack thereof of merit in the execution of the property itself. Concorde was one of those and as someone who is quote" left-wing no amount of character pronouns would ever cover up for that insanely awful, realistic rendered art style and it's boring gameplay that they've decided to charge actual money for.
Haha they are talking about concord. Crazy
"No wonder Russel Brand has turned to Jesus!"
True that!
Interesting where you are talking about how massively profitable the likes of Fortnite are, and in definitely is. As another interesting point about financial success, I believe Pokémon is the overall most profitable franchise.
Is the trend you're noticing is that all those things were terrible?
More nonsense about review bombing. If you actually investigate it rather than cherry picking a few films to suit what you have already decided you might learn something.
Concord focused too much on stunning cutscenes instead of gameplay, which is great if your making a movie.
And if they had great memorable characters to lol
All the things they listed as review bombed because "they starred women" were objectively bad, though
The biggest show you've never heard of is a bit ott.
It sounds like there's less of a problem with rotten tomatoes and more of a problem with men.😂
Re: Review bombing; While I would not take part, I do believe it is a balancing factor , as their is no doubt in my mind that official critics these days have little integrity and are at the behest of large production companies , whether it is for some sort of financial incentive (investors , perks etc) or just remaining on the access list. The large independant negative critiques balances itself out. My wife and I will watch 2 shows of anything we are interested in. If it does not take by then we will drop regardless of what critics say. The power of making your own mind up is liberating.
I've found it odd that you scarcely ever discuss video games despite it being the biggest entertainment industry in the world
I feel they need to bring someone in when they talk about videogames cause their knowledge is pretty limited
If you're going to talk about gender review bombing then don't give examples that are terrible movies/series regardless of the gender of the cast.
Should have been 9 seasons same number as the stations of the cross, hahahaha
There are 14 stations
@@Ultrasifer Your right, I keep mixing it up with that Satanic terrorist group Order of 9 Angles.
Actually they might have spent over $400 million on Concord
I've heard everything from $200 million to $500 million. Whatever the reality it's a lot.
Damn even the producer of The Chosen understand that a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu) character isn’t interesting.
A lesson for Disney? 🤔
Not contradictions, The Bible was the original multiverse
The Bible says there's no multiverse. Only the universe. 😮
oh no boomers taking about video games.
Wrong generation Mr PK. They’re Gen-X not Boomers.
You know, I have noticed a trend in the response to "Review Bombing" in "Male dominated Fandoms", where there is no analysis of whether the the content is actually good or bad, because any movie starring a woman HAS to be good, so any negative response is mIsOgYNy, right?
I mean, you actually used She Hulk as an example, She Hulk of all things, I'm sorry but Marvel fan or not, regardless of your gender, race, background, beliefs, or anything, that is just an objectively bad series. A show with lawyers where no-one in the writers room knew anything about the law, with zero character development or arc, and using some of the most cringe-worthy tropes unironically... They actually built in an "Undo" button at the end because even they knew how bad it was! 🤦♂
These are starting to show how disconnected they are from the real world.
First off please to talking about Computer Games as its simply embrassing.. Nothing worse than watching a couple of boomers talking something that they zero knowledge off.
Secondly the 2016 Ghostbusters failed because they if took 4 of the world's best comedians and utterly wasted then with an awful script.
They literally created one dimensional characters which were awful stereotypes for each Comedian and then got upset when they got called out for it.
Listen to non gamers talk about games is so interesting. They are totally missing why it failed because you KNOW it would upset Marina. 😏
Woohoo, first comment (not listened yet, but assume it will be as entertaining as ever!)
Not really a comment then?
@@blackrosecomb a comment is a comment, I agree it's not a *useful* or insightful comment, I just got giddy that it popped up on my feed 30 seconds after upload :-) I have now watched and it is as good as ever, I never knew how important Rotten Tomatoes was, always assumed it was just a bit of hobby project for someone.
this guys still cant handle the public leaving bad reviews
As a big fan of imdb, the smart move is looking at the score bar chart for a film rather than the top line score, were you see the 'bell curve' distribution of scores, which shows you where the 'real' average is, then big spikes of 1 and 10 which are your review bombers, blind fanboys and people trying to counter review bombers.
Star wars is a poor example given Rogue One and The Force Awakens got good reviews. Maybe the Last Jedi was just rubbish. Other good films like Hidden Figures, The Favourite etc have good ratings. Again, maybe Ghostbusters was crap
Rogue One and TFA getting positive audience scores does indicate that it's not about quality of writing, at least.
Can we have top 5 UK dramas...or 10. I live in Cambodia and so forget how much I love our stuff. You put me on to Slow Horses and I loved it so much. More please. Ps. I've not been home for nine years.
Are there actually any great films which have been effectively "review-bombed" though? I'm not convinced that a small group of gatekeeping man-children really manage to sway the scores that much. If the audience score is that bad, it usually means the film has failed to achieve broad appeal.
Not a film, but the Paris Olympics Opening Ceremony was Review bombed, all because a select few thought it was about them, but it wasn't
@@PianoKwanMan But again: The opening ceremony just wasn’t very good. I watched quite a lot of it, unaware of any political controversy, and I thought it was strange, slow, boring, and disjointed, lacking atmosphere and spectacle, with poor camerawork, and an over-reliance on stars who weren’t even French.
@@andybrice2711 i enjoyed it thoroughly, though. So, maybe I'm anti-review bombed it by showing its praise?
And if we go down the anti-review bomb, Les Miserables original production was a flop, but a few said it was good and through word of mouth the public liked it, even though the experts despised it
@@PianoKwanMan Well, sure, it’s all largely a matter of taste. Apparently the French audience mostly liked the ceremony.
But I think most of the bad reviews were because a lot of people just didn’t enjoy it. Not because of the few people who found it offensive.
@@PianoKwanMan Regarding Les Miserables: There are works which have mass appeal, but fail to impress critics. Because those critics are either more discerning, or more snobbish (depending on how you look at it).
You can see that same distinction in the difference between Rotten Tomatoes’ critics and audience scores.
What's wild about the Concord flop is Sony and the game's developers saw this as an anchor franchise akin to Star Wars. Sony, on top of the development cost (credible sources put it closer to $400 million) Sony also bought the development studio, Firewalk Studios. According to the same source the cost of the purchase is not included in that $400 million. The level of delusion at Sony over this game was absolutely insane.
When your favorite entertainment podcast talks about the Chosen, you know it's going to be a good day.
Best part of my week. Love your guys's takes so much
I just can't imagine putting any stock in the audience scores tbh. Open online surveys (which is effectively what this is) are a terrible way to gather data.
Maybe you shouldn't use absolute dog water movies like Ghostbusters remake and The Last Jedi as examples of review bombing.
I bet many of those mansplaining that there is no such thing as review bombing are also Very Concerned about ethics in video game journalism
The biggest flop in entertainment this year ... you forgot about Rings of Power!
I've never heard of The Chosen but if it's based on religion... Yeah I don't think I'm the audience if it'd based on THAT book 😂
*chef's kiss* to the Noah joke
There was so many jokes from Richard in this episode but this was the laugh out loud one.
cringe. just say you enjoyed it.
The trend Marina is noticing is badly written projects. Nothing to do with having female actors in it. Look at the popularity of Alien, Aliens, Terminator, Terminator 2, with amazing women leads. No mention of critics handing out top marks to truly awful films with the "correct" politics. No mention of Rotten Tomatoes constantly rigging the rules to protect large corporations. No mention of organised "positive" review bombing in support of terrible movies with the "correct" politics. Concord is twice the flop you think it is. Sony spent $400 million, as they acquired the studio as well as the game.
I think you're underselling the failure. Way more than £200 million loss
400m at last count. Allegedly.
Richard you can’t team up in solos, that could get you banned. But still fun when it happens. You can team up in duos, trios and squads.
I wonder what’s your thoughts on Critical Roll - the streamers who play dnd, very successful, I think the kickstarter to fund the animated prime series is still top of kickstarters all time most funded list…
Any film based on the bible should be categorized in the genre of fantasy.
No one should rate anyone in public as I'm sure it will hurt more women than than any compliment will achieve. Nice one for mentioning that
I recently watched Rebel Ridge on Netflix because the RT critic score was 97%, which made me think it must be good. (FWIW I thought it was an enjoyable, solid thriller 7.5/10.)
PUBG popularized the battle royale format a year before fortnite. It wasn't the first battle royale on the market and it didn't invent the genre by any stretch of the imagination.
It did however merge terrain modification and building mechanics with the BR format which appealed to lots of younger gamers at the time who had been introduced to gaming through Minecraft.
Forbes has a good article about Concord and what went wrong.
The estimate is actually $400m put into the game and they thought it was going to be the “new Star Wars” and a platform seller.
Reports from people involved in the development was that their was a culture of “toxic positivity” where everyone had to tow the line of how wonderful this game was going to be and critical feedback was not welcome at any stage
The sad thing is the video game industry has been filled with stories like Concord in the last four years. WBD posted a $250 million dollar loss for their live service game Sucide Squad, while the Marvel Avengers closed down after two and a half years.
Angel Studios is backed by Church of Latter Day Saints - the Mormons, which are a religious sect.
The sad thing about the female Ghostbusters remake is that it could have been great. They just needed an original story . The cast was good the effects were fine . But the script was terrible . The idea behind it was flawed. The Ghostbusters should have been the daughters and nieces of the original Ghostbusters . It would have been fantastic if it had just had new idea.
Yes review bombing nothing to do with a terrible writer ignoring bellittling and pissing the fans off by changing what made the show what it was.
Half the Hollywood critics are paid to watch the movie that’s why they say there great
Shocked this doesn't get more views, especially with Richard Osman. Always find it really interesting and entertaining and (bar the Now TV plugs) there's way less adverts than on podcast audio listening
Interesting segment on video games. I feel like you can't talk about entertainment without mentioning video games in all of their many forms. I think this is a world that should be mentioned more in the mainstream and I loved your thoughts on these topics. Great job as usual.
I’m quite disappointed that it took me 20 years living in the UK without discovering Marina. Even though she’s a Guardian columnist. She’s terrific!
Richard is on fire with his quips and buns today. Its almost recentless.
His scones are great but his puns are better... As well as his profreading 😉 😂
Apologies, I didn't realise you were referring to his physique. 😂
Mary Magdalene's tunic in your clip shows the neckline finished by a sewing machine. Wasn't expecting a lot of historical accuracy anyway.
ive been personally offended and highly excited by the fact that mad men isnt in the "9.2" category.
My hearing is not as good as it was but I would swear that Marina calls Richard Richard OsmonD with a D.?
Anyone ? Love the podcast.
If you didn't like Ghostbusters you're sexist but if you like Joker you're an incel... OK
I'm an American but was familiar with both of you before this and all I can say is see you next Tuesday
First episode of this podcast I’ve fast forwarded through. Not one thing interested me. Guess it’s just the luck of the draw
Is the female host religious ( I’ve just heard she isn’t, I’m still not to sure). I saw the trailer and it was cheesy and fake.
They talk about Rotten Tomatoes as if it isn't corrupted by corporate shills....
5:46 The massive ark line is sublime. Richard finds the gag, crafts it, then places it the second there's a gap.
A whole season about the crucifixion of Jesus. Sounds like someone has a cruci-fixation.
If any company deserved to lose $200m it would be Sony. May they carry on losing.