the low f and e actually are in tune on all professional German clarinets. We have the same system as the Selmer Muse but the vent hole for the low e is on the bell
Professional german clarinet means that they have all the correction key for low e and f. A normal Oehler or german clarinet f.e. must not have the key. With the key (professional) the price is much higher. If you install it separatly it costs about 1300 Euro. Without the key no german clarinet is in tune, sometimes more than -20 cent.
I play a Yamaha CSG with a correction system that functions basically like the Selmer instrument you showed in the video. It is a little awkward to use in fast passages, but in those cases it doesn’t really matter terribly that the note isn’t in tune. When I play an exposed low F I definitely use the correction key. Sure took some getting used to, but you do get used to it.
and also the advantage of the yamaha system over the selmer (which has a different correction key shape) is that by bending it you can adjust its position and adapt it to your thumb
Great video! I feel another solution manufacturers should try is an automatic double register vent mechanism like you see on bass clarinets. This would help both low F and low E while also offering other improvements in the clarion register. Other smaller woodwinds like soprano saxophone and oboe already make use of multiple vents so it wouldn't be that challenging from a design perspective.
Most likely that second vent would go on the barrel which would likely lock you into whatever barrel the manufacturer sends with the instrument. In addition, the register vents on saxophone do not double as tone hole for a note (another design compromise of the clarinet.)
You mean Selmer's Marchi system from the '80s? They had a speaker vent on the barrel with a doubled split key and a multitude of extra keys and linkages for that (as well as being a full Boehm) which gave the same altissimo register fingerings from altissimo E as the low register, only sounding three 8ves higher.
A few people have mentioned Yamaha: I switched from Festivals to Yamaha SEArtist a couple of years ago, and the low note correction is just one way the Yamahas are so much easier to play in tune. Many people need to get the thumb key bent into a slightly different spot to suit their hand: once you do, it still takes a while to feel comfortable operating it, but it's really not too awkward, and in fast passages you can just leave it on as it doesn't affect other low register notes. German-system players have been happy with this thumb-key for ages. Like the Selmer mechanism, Yamaha's has 3 distinct advantages: it's OPTIONAL (you don't have to use it in soft dynamics or in certain chords); it fixes the low E also; and you can 'half-hole' it, just pushing it slightly to get an in-between pitch. Furthermore, you can use it on a middle B or C if you need those to be sharper (they're not sharp notes on SE's and CSG's), and it also slightly helps low F# and even low G. Buffet's decision to only correct the F and forget the E strikes me as truly bizarre, leaving the Weber example only half-fixed. Backun's choice to make it permanent and unavoidable is also a head-scratcher for me, and I imagine it makes for a slower and heavier register-key mechanism? So for me Selmer and Yamaha are hands-down the best designs.
The only good automatic low F mechanisms I've ever tried are on rossi clarinets because they're one piece. They're gravity activated rather than spring loaded which makes the register key heavy indeed. All your points are great and I enjoy my yamaha fancy csvr very much.
From Japan. I have the Buffet ELITE, and it has automatic pitch correction from F to the lowest note. Linked to register key. For the clarinet, extending the lowest note will solve everything! Like BC21.
The Selmer Recital was the first French made clarinet to have the fully automatic low F correction key back in the '80s, then followed by the Buffet Elite - both were linked to and controlled by the speaker key so the player didn't have to consciously operate it (as they'd do with the right thumb key as full 27 key Oehler systems have had for aeons to correct both low E and low F), but both had it working in a slightly different manner due the way it was linked to the speaker key. On the Recital, the linkage was under the speaker key touchpiece (like the mechanism on the Backun) and on the Elites, it was linked to the speaker key pad cup which lifted it. On both Recital and Elite, the low F correction vent was automatically closed when low E was played.
I've owned a Muse now for about 8 months. It took a little getting used to, plus a little experimenting with the position of the key. I dig how it opens one pad for the F, then switches to another pad for the E.
It is important to add that the Uebel Superior, Superior II and the Zenith all can be had (on their website at least) with a thumb operated Low E/F correction mechanism (just like Oehler system clarinets with a vent hole on the bell) and the Zenith additionally has the option of having that mechanism be automatic (again, according to Uebel's product page and shop page).
Good to know that both my 1938 Buffet and my 1984 Uebel are pretty nice instruments and not "guilty' for the tuning compromises all {even state of the art brands} clarinets have in common. I feel much better now ^:} Great video as always ! KUDOS
One caveat about the automatic low F is that not all your buddies will have the venting mechanism, making you rather unpopular when playing unison in the nether regions. It's nice to have the option to be at peace with both horns and your own cadre.
Hey Mike! Great video! Please don't forget that Uebel Zenit is also available with f correction mechanism. And there's also the automatic version of that! You should definitely try it out 🙂
The best sounding I noticed in first place are the Selmer Muse and Backun Lumiere, before you have showed us the textblock with the indication how far away the tuning is.
My teacher, Isobel Carter, was an advocate of this. A small hole is drilled through the bell and tenon. You turn the bell to open the hole when you have a loud low F and then close the hole again by turning the bell when you don't need it. You can only use it by preparing in advance. It can be useful, but not very often.
@@disasterblaster3693 yep - that’s the one. If you have a big low-f moment, you’re covered, then replace the positioning afterward. Mind you, the 90s were a very different time! It’s amazing what they can do nowadays!
Interesting! I didn't know about these systems. (I've never played a top of the line clarinet - mine's an R13, and I only tested clarinets in that price range when I bought it, since that was what I could afford. I like it and it's good enough for me who doubles on everything, but it is cool that clarinets are still improved upon...)
Wow , I always thought it was me and my rubbish intonation , I’ve played my buffet for many years once taking it back to my tech to sort that low F/E out - now I know 😂
My R13 is a full boehm system, so the low F has a bit more venting and the low E/middle B vents through a tone hole instead of the bell, and I find it makes a noticeable difference in feel and response, and it makes tuning a bit easier.
Buffet also offered the Elite with the longer lower joint as you'd have on full Boehms, only the low E/B tonehole or vent was a plain tonehole (it had no low Eb key) which evened up the tone quality of the low E (and B) as it no longer issued directly from the bell as low E/B does on full Boehms. Orsi also offered their Verdi clarinets with the long lower joint with the plain E/B tonehole/vent without the low Eb key.
I recently bought my first professional clarinet and I chose a Yamaha CSGIII to match with my Yamaha ycl-65 A clarinet, and I love the low F correction key style (which is like the muse, which I tried and it's a freaking awesome [but costly😅] instrument) because: 1st, it's an option! In the sense that I decide if I need it (like, I don't need it many times cause I'm in tune without it) and 2nd, when I need it, I can just leave it pressed and all the Fs/Es will be intune and doesn't require fingering mania to figure out a way to always land with the right hand on the f correction (like on the buffet style), as it uses another finger which is independent. Yes at first it's weird to press it but I never felt that the clarinet would fall out of my mouth, maybe the F key in the Yamaha is more ergonomic and longer than the muse, but you'll get used to it, and if you already play bass clarinet, like I do, it will be certainly easier.
@@diegojavier7371 yeah good choice, I recently had buffet crampon come to my conservatory in Italy and after trying all, and I mean all their instruments, boxwood, mopane woods included, even if I fell in love with the boxwood A clarinet (perfect for Mozart), which I admit it's fenomenal, I then tried my instrument to compare to the ones I already tried, and there was no comparison, by far. Yes I was used to my instrument of course, but I played on buffet instruments for a long long time and i tried a lot of buffet models before my CSG, but even then my instrument was by far the most spontaneous and even tho the keywork is not as "hard" as the top line of buffets, it still had the best sound, and for WAY, let me repeat, WAY less money than the top line buffets. When I tried my instrument I instinctively had a sigh of relief😅🤦🏻. So I hope that is what you will find with your own instrument too🤗
I have a Buffet Tosca and use the special low F key only on longer notes, e.g. quarter notes or longer where tempo allows. This note is also not as stuffy as the regular F.
I find the Buffet solution to be just a bit of a stretch for my right pinky and caused tension in my hand. With the Selmer I would want to adjust the key touch up to where I wouldn’t need to move my thumb away from the thumb rest but found I would accidentally open the vent when I didn’t mean to. I could probably adapt to either after some practice.
Many thanks for this great summary. FWIW, I have a 1976 Buffet R13 full Boehm, and find the F and E are quite well in tune -- not perfect of course, but a lot closer than the standard R13.
Tosca player since 2006-2007 (don't remember exactly), luckily my clarinet doesn't suffer too much the low F even with the normal fingering, but using the correction key Is useful and practical for long notes or pieces like Weber.
Small comment about german system clarinets, that might be interesting for some people. Most manufacturers sell clarinets, that have something called "Bechermechanik" (bell-mechanic), to fix the intonation of the low E and F. The mechanism is pretty much the same for all manufacturers I know of and is similar to the one by Selmer but with the vent located at the bell. You can actually see the "Bechermechanik" vent in the picture of the german system clarinet (0:33) on the right side of the bell.
So, if the clarinet low notes are out of tune to favor tuning of the clarion notes because the register vent is in the wrong place, I wonder why they didn't just add a second register vent like oboe and saxophone do. Venting the F seems to be fixing the wrong problem, and the linkages could go from bottom to top just as easily to make the thumb key switch which hole it opens.
I play a Yamaha CSG. The system for correction of the low notes is similar as the Selmer described in the video. Although it is something quite bizarre to use in the beggining, you can get used to it at some point. The key is quite easy to bend a little and you can make it easier to reach it for your hand, it is not miraculous meaning you'll still have to practice it, but it will be easier. Another plus side to systems that aren't automatic, is that you can actually choose to correct it or not, something useful when you'll want to play the low E or F really softly (and may be not so flat).
Aside from the low F, it is interesting to compare the basic tone quality of all of these. Clarinet design has come a long way and all these sound excellent to me and not drastically different, though there are some modest differences. Would need a full comparison at all registers and dynamics to really evaluate, but this seems to be a good quick comparison.
I thought that problem was solved in the early 20th century with Full Böhm designs! It’s the similar design than the Buffet in this video but you gain the Eb at the bottom (which will be flat!) but you acquire the vent for the E and F. Furthermore you had the Marchi design from Selmer in the 70’s with and automatic double register that even allow to jump to the 17th in addition to the 12th.
Full Boehms weren't the solution to the flat low E and low F - if anything, they made things worse as they also have a flat low Eb. Full Boehms were made for players who preferred to play everything on the one instrument and the low Eb was there to give the same note as the low E on an A clarinet to fully cover A clarinet parts, plus the LH Ab/Eb lever to make a low Eb-Ab slur easy (the same as doing a low E-A slur on an A clarinet), an articulated C#/G# mechanism for a B-C# and upper F#-G# trill so an A clarinet's C-D and G-A trill can be done with ease. Also the LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism (which is the 7th ring key for LH3) so a low register C-Eb and upper G-Bb (same as an A clarinet's C#-E and G#-B) tremolo can be done simply by trilling LH2, although all these extra mechanisms make many trills, tremolos and intervals much easier and some are advantageous - the forked Eb/Bb mechanism (xox|ooo) is in tune in both registers unlike long Bb (xoo|xoo) which is sharp as a lower register Eb and the extra 'sliver' key for RH2 can be used for an altissimo E-F trill instead of trilling the C#/G# key with your LH pinky which will fatigue quickly.
@@chrisperyagh don’t get me wrong; the full böhm was not designed to fix the problem described in the video. Arguably the low Eb on them is even flatter but the bore is cylindrical above that last tone hole which makes it act as the vent hole from these modern designs. The low E and F are not as flat as on simple böhms (buffet-klosé models).
@@rashakor I designed and was going to add a low F, E and Eb correction key to my Series 9 full Boehm (and then add it to others) and got as far as making the pad cups for it, but never got round to doing the alterations to the clarinets. Then Yamaha fitted what appears to be the same mechanism I designed (only I had the bell key like Oehlers have in mind), so it's nice to see both myself and Yamaha were on the same wavelength with adapting this mechanism to Boehm systems. It's interesting to see how some German features are being used on French clarinets and vice versa - some German clarinets now have linked throat G# and A keys as on Boehms instead of both being independent.
Buffet’s latest model BCXXI (BC21) has built-in low f correction key, which I think is a good idea since you don’t really have to adapt to a new fingering position.
Another piece he could have played is called Variations on a Korean Folk Song. It starts on that low F and stays in the low register for a number of measures.
Great presentation! Thank you! Another topic is of course if tuning a bit low works sometimes well... Selmer is known of its sound in the low register, how much of that comes of the tuning problems.
Great video! I love the mechanism on my CSG-III which is the same as the Muse as others have stated. I also love the the Yamaha and Bakun systems can be adjusted for how “vented” you want those notes to be. Do the Selmer and Buffet systems function that way as well?
Very insteresing. Nevertheless, I am going to stick to my three Selmer 10G clarinets (that is large capital G not the small capital G) and make sure my embouchure corrects as best to any tuning short-comings of the clarinets.
The problem is clarinet players tune their B or A concert perfectly to 440khz and then play every other note sharp. An even bigger issue is the lack of tuning of each note depending on the scale and the interval of any given chord. The low F is the very least of the problem. Most people need to learn how to play in tune in an ensemble. For a period of time Canadian Military Bands required all clarinets to be R13s because they were played perfectly inconsistently together. When they are together it is most pleasant and low F really is unimportant.
Like some other posters I use Yamaha CSG IIIL. Pluses - it works, and you open as much or as little as you wish (for F and E). Minuses - a little awkward, and I do use a neckstrap (for other reasons). It also limits the adjustability of an adjustable thumbrest, and might well (this is speculation) prevent use of the larger ergonomic thumbrests out there. But it’s worth it for me for longer notes.
It looks like the Uebel and the R13 are the same, so the extra hole didn't help at all. I was wondering how it could change anything. Also, is it possible to "lip tune" that low F? You know, by shoving the instrument up higher? That was something I always remember being told to do in band in school. The clarinets would constantly have issues playing flat (on certain notes), and would be told to push up more. I know it's really a problem in the highest register, but it would come up in other registers, too.
Recently my group is going to play Felix Mendelssohn's Overture for Wind Instruments in C, Opus 24. The clarinet part is written for Clarinet in F. Never heard of such tuning before. How do I transpose to Bb or A clarinet?
Great video as always Michael. However, one can correct the horrible flat low F by proper voicing. I have a Selmer 10G, Backun MOBA, and a Uebel Zenit. I can play the Uebel in tune by voicing it correctly. The 10G is a bit tricky. Gigliotti designed the tuning so the long C is not so sharp. But again, I can get it close by correct voicing . Just my 2 cents!
Thank you for making this video. I recently purchased a used Buffet Tosca, and I noticed an interesting intonation quirk with it. Its middle B and C play well in tune. The low F also plays well in tune with the low F correction key. The low E, however, is noticeably flat. I've also noticed that some of the other uber-pro Buffet clarinets have a hole drilled in the bell. Do you think something like this would raise the pitch of the low E and B? Do you know of any other ways to raise the pitch of a low E, aside from using a shorter barrel?
One other question: on the Selmer, how much does having the extra mechanism that has to cross the joint impact anything. I remember that both the lower Eb mechanism (by covering a right hand hole) and the B/low E key would constantly have issues on my instrument, from the day I got it. It just seems those mechanisms are prone to not working as well.
Hi there ,love your Channel! A personal question- is the Eb lever on left side that essential ? Can you do professional playing with just a 17/6 ? Thank you.
@@SaxSith I will presume to answer the question correctly. Most people and very many professionals are just fine with 17/6. The left Eb has always been thought of as a bit of a luxury. There are many passages to be found in the literature that would seem to 'require' it, but all of us with 17/6 clarinets sin and 'slide' from the right pinky C or F to G# or Eb. I don't know why we are taught that sliding is illegal. Saxophones, flutes and bassoons have rollers to make sliding easy. Oboists slide, too, but they don't have rollers. German-made French clarinets offer rollers on those right hand C/F and G#/Eb keys. Why can't we do it without feeling like we're cheating or thinking the composer doesn't know anything?
The problem is the clarinet was designed by committee... the members of which hadn't ever met each other, didn't know each other, and didn't like each other.
Clarinets had a larger boar in the past that favored high notes being in tune. n not the lower notes. Getting a Clarinet to be a 3 octave horn is not straight forward.
Yeah - the Recital had that same mechanism back in the '80s, followed by the Buffet Elite with a similar mechanism. Why they changed it? Because Selmer. They like to do stupid shit as it suits them.
@@Fumbles9001 They even offered the articulated C#/G# mechanism on some Recitals, so that too would've added extra weight to perhaps the heaviest clarinet ever built.
the low f and e actually are in tune on all professional German clarinets. We have the same system as the Selmer Muse but the vent hole for the low e is on the bell
If German clarinets keep those notes in tune, why would they add the vent system?
😂 exactly what I was thinking. As you can see in this video the French system is also in tune if you add the vents
Professional german clarinet means that they have all the correction key for low e and f. A normal Oehler or german clarinet f.e. must not have the key. With the key (professional) the price is much higher. If you install it separatly it costs about 1300 Euro.
Without the key no german clarinet is in tune, sometimes more than -20 cent.
He means german system, not french like these
This might be the single best educational video on clarinet tuning on RUclips for French clarinets.
The register key triggering it seems like it will be standard. Correcting the problem without me needing to do anything different? Amazing.
I play a Yamaha CSG with a correction system that functions basically like the Selmer instrument you showed in the video. It is a little awkward to use in fast passages, but in those cases it doesn’t really matter terribly that the note isn’t in tune. When I play an exposed low F I definitely use the correction key. Sure took some getting used to, but you do get used to it.
and also the advantage of the yamaha system over the selmer (which has a different correction key shape) is that by bending it you can adjust its position and adapt it to your thumb
Great video! I feel another solution manufacturers should try is an automatic double register vent mechanism like you see on bass clarinets. This would help both low F and low E while also offering other improvements in the clarion register. Other smaller woodwinds like soprano saxophone and oboe already make use of multiple vents so it wouldn't be that challenging from a design perspective.
Would a triple vent be feasible/useful on bass/contra?
Most likely that second vent would go on the barrel which would likely lock you into whatever barrel the manufacturer sends with the instrument. In addition, the register vents on saxophone do not double as tone hole for a note (another design compromise of the clarinet.)
@@aidanknox2430 I think the Eppelsheim actually has a triple vent.
I feel that the double vent on my Selmer BC helps more with response than intonation. My low E is still pretty flat but the F is decent.
You mean Selmer's Marchi system from the '80s? They had a speaker vent on the barrel with a doubled split key and a multitude of extra keys and linkages for that (as well as being a full Boehm) which gave the same altissimo register fingerings from altissimo E as the low register, only sounding three 8ves higher.
A few people have mentioned Yamaha: I switched from Festivals to Yamaha SEArtist a couple of years ago, and the low note correction is just one way the Yamahas are so much easier to play in tune. Many people need to get the thumb key bent into a slightly different spot to suit their hand: once you do, it still takes a while to feel comfortable operating it, but it's really not too awkward, and in fast passages you can just leave it on as it doesn't affect other low register notes. German-system players have been happy with this thumb-key for ages. Like the Selmer mechanism, Yamaha's has 3 distinct advantages: it's OPTIONAL (you don't have to use it in soft dynamics or in certain chords); it fixes the low E also; and you can 'half-hole' it, just pushing it slightly to get an in-between pitch. Furthermore, you can use it on a middle B or C if you need those to be sharper (they're not sharp notes on SE's and CSG's), and it also slightly helps low F# and even low G. Buffet's decision to only correct the F and forget the E strikes me as truly bizarre, leaving the Weber example only half-fixed. Backun's choice to make it permanent and unavoidable is also a head-scratcher for me, and I imagine it makes for a slower and heavier register-key mechanism? So for me Selmer and Yamaha are hands-down the best designs.
The only good automatic low F mechanisms I've ever tried are on rossi clarinets because they're one piece. They're gravity activated rather than spring loaded which makes the register key heavy indeed. All your points are great and I enjoy my yamaha fancy csvr very much.
From Japan.
I have the Buffet ELITE, and it has automatic pitch correction from F to the lowest note. Linked to register key. For the clarinet, extending the lowest note will solve everything! Like BC21.
Luis Rossi clarinets also have the automatic mechanism!
The Selmer Recital was the first French made clarinet to have the fully automatic low F correction key back in the '80s, then followed by the Buffet Elite - both were linked to and controlled by the speaker key so the player didn't have to consciously operate it (as they'd do with the right thumb key as full 27 key Oehler systems have had for aeons to correct both low E and low F), but both had it working in a slightly different manner due the way it was linked to the speaker key. On the Recital, the linkage was under the speaker key touchpiece (like the mechanism on the Backun) and on the Elites, it was linked to the speaker key pad cup which lifted it. On both Recital and Elite, the low F correction vent was automatically closed when low E was played.
I've owned a Muse now for about 8 months. It took a little getting used to, plus a little experimenting with the position of the key. I dig how it opens one pad for the F, then switches to another pad for the E.
Oh C'mon Michael. Stop venting!....I think you see what I did there. ; )
I have a 1st generation Buffet Tradition (without the correction F) and the intonation on the low notes are spot on.
It is important to add that the Uebel Superior, Superior II and the Zenith all can be had (on their website at least) with a thumb operated Low E/F correction mechanism (just like Oehler system clarinets with a vent hole on the bell) and the Zenith additionally has the option of having that mechanism be automatic (again, according to Uebel's product page and shop page).
Thanks for mentioning this. We appreciate it!
Good to know that both my 1938 Buffet and my 1984 Uebel are pretty nice instruments
and not "guilty' for the tuning compromises all {even state of the art brands} clarinets have in common.
I feel much better now ^:}
Great video as always ! KUDOS
One caveat about the automatic low F is that not all your buddies will have the venting mechanism, making you rather unpopular when playing unison in the nether regions. It's nice to have the option to be at peace with both horns and your own cadre.
It's probably best to keep that clarinet away from your buddies' nether regions.
@@mattmilford8106 indeed!
Hey Mike! Great video! Please don't forget that Uebel Zenit is also available with f correction mechanism. And there's also the automatic version of that! You should definitely try it out 🙂
i still do those mouth embouchure exercises lol
Thank you Mike! This video is great advice for clarinetists.
clarinet players: this one note is flat! we need to rework the entire manufacturing process of our instruments!
Sax players: Everything is wrong.
(no hate)
Saxophone: the only instrument that can be out of tune with itself.
The best sounding I noticed in first place are the Selmer Muse and Backun Lumiere, before you have showed us the textblock with the indication how far away the tuning is.
Awesome Mike, thanks! I’ve previously used what I will now call “the Australian mechanism” which is based around the use of a cordless drill…
My teacher, Isobel Carter, was an advocate of this. A small hole is drilled through the bell and tenon. You turn the bell to open the hole when you have a loud low F and then close the hole again by turning the bell when you don't need it. You can only use it by preparing in advance. It can be useful, but not very often.
@@disasterblaster3693 yep - that’s the one. If you have a big low-f moment, you’re covered, then replace the positioning afterward.
Mind you, the 90s were a very different time! It’s amazing what they can do nowadays!
Interesting! I didn't know about these systems. (I've never played a top of the line clarinet - mine's an R13, and I only tested clarinets in that price range when I bought it, since that was what I could afford. I like it and it's good enough for me who doubles on everything, but it is cool that clarinets are still improved upon...)
I am an amateur trying out clarinets. I have played the flute for a while. But I fell in love with the clarinet
Wow , I always thought it was me and my rubbish intonation , I’ve played my buffet for many years once taking it back to my tech to sort that low F/E out - now I know 😂
OH! SHOULD I
drill a hole in the bell just to SEE?
n F is contagious.
My R13 is a full boehm system, so the low F has a bit more venting and the low E/middle B vents through a tone hole instead of the bell, and I find it makes a noticeable difference in feel and response, and it makes tuning a bit easier.
Buffet also offered the Elite with the longer lower joint as you'd have on full Boehms, only the low E/B tonehole or vent was a plain tonehole (it had no low Eb key) which evened up the tone quality of the low E (and B) as it no longer issued directly from the bell as low E/B does on full Boehms. Orsi also offered their Verdi clarinets with the long lower joint with the plain E/B tonehole/vent without the low Eb key.
I recently bought my first professional clarinet and I chose a Yamaha CSGIII to match with my Yamaha ycl-65 A clarinet, and I love the low F correction key style (which is like the muse, which I tried and it's a freaking awesome [but costly😅] instrument) because: 1st, it's an option! In the sense that I decide if I need it (like, I don't need it many times cause I'm in tune without it) and
2nd, when I need it, I can just leave it pressed and all the Fs/Es will be intune and doesn't require fingering mania to figure out a way to always land with the right hand on the f correction (like on the buffet style), as it uses another finger which is independent.
Yes at first it's weird to press it but I never felt that the clarinet would fall out of my mouth, maybe the F key in the Yamaha is more ergonomic and longer than the muse, but you'll get used to it, and if you already play bass clarinet, like I do, it will be certainly easier.
Heeeey, CSGIII buddies!
Recently bought a CSG as my first professional clarinet also, can’t wait till I have it delivered. Very excited to use the correction mechanism!
@@diegojavier7371 yeah good choice, I recently had buffet crampon come to my conservatory in Italy and after trying all, and I mean all their instruments, boxwood, mopane woods included, even if I fell in love with the boxwood A clarinet (perfect for Mozart), which I admit it's fenomenal, I then tried my instrument to compare to the ones I already tried, and there was no comparison, by far. Yes I was used to my instrument of course, but I played on buffet instruments for a long long time and i tried a lot of buffet models before my CSG, but even then my instrument was by far the most spontaneous and even tho the keywork is not as "hard" as the top line of buffets, it still had the best sound, and for WAY, let me repeat, WAY less money than the top line buffets. When I tried my instrument I instinctively had a sigh of relief😅🤦🏻. So I hope that is what you will find with your own instrument too🤗
I have a Buffet Tosca and use the special low F key only on longer notes, e.g. quarter notes or longer where tempo allows. This note is also not as stuffy as the regular F.
I find the Buffet solution to be just a bit of a stretch for my right pinky and caused tension in my hand. With the Selmer I would want to adjust the key touch up to where I wouldn’t need to move my thumb away from the thumb rest but found I would accidentally open the vent when I didn’t mean to. I could probably adapt to either after some practice.
Many thanks for this great summary. FWIW, I have a 1976 Buffet R13 full Boehm, and find the F and E are quite well in tune -- not perfect of course, but a lot closer than the standard R13.
For what it's worth, that selmer solution looks very reminiscent to what yamaha did, in regards to the venting of the low E hehe
Tosca player since 2006-2007 (don't remember exactly), luckily my clarinet doesn't suffer too much the low F even with the normal fingering, but using the correction key Is useful and practical for long notes or pieces like Weber.
Small comment about german system clarinets, that might be interesting for some people. Most manufacturers sell clarinets, that have something called "Bechermechanik" (bell-mechanic), to fix the intonation of the low E and F. The mechanism is pretty much the same for all manufacturers I know of and is similar to the one by Selmer but with the vent located at the bell. You can actually see the "Bechermechanik" vent in the picture of the german system clarinet (0:33) on the right side of the bell.
So, if the clarinet low notes are out of tune to favor tuning of the clarion notes because the register vent is in the wrong place, I wonder why they didn't just add a second register vent like oboe and saxophone do. Venting the F seems to be fixing the wrong problem, and the linkages could go from bottom to top just as easily to make the thumb key switch which hole it opens.
I play a Yamaha CSG. The system for correction of the low notes is similar as the Selmer described in the video. Although it is something quite bizarre to use in the beggining, you can get used to it at some point. The key is quite easy to bend a little and you can make it easier to reach it for your hand, it is not miraculous meaning you'll still have to practice it, but it will be easier. Another plus side to systems that aren't automatic, is that you can actually choose to correct it or not, something useful when you'll want to play the low E or F really softly (and may be not so flat).
Aside from the low F, it is interesting to compare the basic tone quality of all of these. Clarinet design has come a long way and all these sound excellent to me and not drastically different, though there are some modest differences. Would need a full comparison at all registers and dynamics to really evaluate, but this seems to be a good quick comparison.
The model missing in a comparison would be the Buffet CXIII, yet another way of solving this issue.
me watching this as a horn player: this is clarinet. i want
I keep on seeing you videos uploaded earlier and earlier last time I saw it 15 minutes after you uploaded it now 6
Jazz clarinet doesn't mind less than PERFECT tuning. 😂
I thought that problem was solved in the early 20th century with Full Böhm designs! It’s the similar design than the Buffet in this video but you gain the Eb at the bottom (which will be flat!) but you acquire the vent for the E and F. Furthermore you had the Marchi design from Selmer in the 70’s with and automatic double register that even allow to jump to the 17th in addition to the 12th.
Full Boehms weren't the solution to the flat low E and low F - if anything, they made things worse as they also have a flat low Eb. Full Boehms were made for players who preferred to play everything on the one instrument and the low Eb was there to give the same note as the low E on an A clarinet to fully cover A clarinet parts, plus the LH Ab/Eb lever to make a low Eb-Ab slur easy (the same as doing a low E-A slur on an A clarinet), an articulated C#/G# mechanism for a B-C# and upper F#-G# trill so an A clarinet's C-D and G-A trill can be done with ease. Also the LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism (which is the 7th ring key for LH3) so a low register C-Eb and upper G-Bb (same as an A clarinet's C#-E and G#-B) tremolo can be done simply by trilling LH2, although all these extra mechanisms make many trills, tremolos and intervals much easier and some are advantageous - the forked Eb/Bb mechanism (xox|ooo) is in tune in both registers unlike long Bb (xoo|xoo) which is sharp as a lower register Eb and the extra 'sliver' key for RH2 can be used for an altissimo E-F trill instead of trilling the C#/G# key with your LH pinky which will fatigue quickly.
@@chrisperyagh don’t get me wrong; the full böhm was not designed to fix the problem described in the video. Arguably the low Eb on them is even flatter but the bore is cylindrical above that last tone hole which makes it act as the vent hole from these modern designs. The low E and F are not as flat as on simple böhms (buffet-klosé models).
@@rashakor I designed and was going to add a low F, E and Eb correction key to my Series 9 full Boehm (and then add it to others) and got as far as making the pad cups for it, but never got round to doing the alterations to the clarinets. Then Yamaha fitted what appears to be the same mechanism I designed (only I had the bell key like Oehlers have in mind), so it's nice to see both myself and Yamaha were on the same wavelength with adapting this mechanism to Boehm systems.
It's interesting to see how some German features are being used on French clarinets and vice versa - some German clarinets now have linked throat G# and A keys as on Boehms instead of both being independent.
Buffet’s latest model BCXXI (BC21) has built-in low f correction key, which I think is a good idea since you don’t really have to adapt to a new fingering position.
Really useful information!! 🎉🎉🎉
Excellent. Much thanks, Zelde
Middle C is tuning note! Concert Bb tuning note, middle B for orchestra players,concert A 440
Michael, as you know, the Zenit is also produced with automatic correction or thumb correction, or no correction,
I didn’t know Boja. The responses to this video taught me!
@@earspasm well then that’s our fault for not informing you. It’s offered in two versions (automatic or thumb manual) on Zenit, and superior models.
Another piece he could have played is called Variations on a Korean Folk Song. It starts on that low F and stays in the low register for a number of measures.
Now I know why my Marigaux Salzburg clarinet has a hole in its bell! 😀 Too bad Marigaux stopped making clarinets in 2001... :(
Guess it’s time to replace my Albert system axe
Great presentation! Thank you! Another topic is of course if tuning a bit low works sometimes well... Selmer is known of its sound in the low register, how much of that comes of the tuning problems.
The baclun is clasified as an assault clarinet and is desing for clarinet combat
Great video! I love the mechanism on my CSG-III which is the same as the Muse as others have stated. I also love the the Yamaha and Bakun systems can be adjusted for how “vented” you want those notes to be.
Do the Selmer and Buffet systems function that way as well?
I don't think so - I think it's just the backun that allows for how much venting you'd like. (Morrie, if you're here, you can answer!)
Very insteresing. Nevertheless, I am going to stick to my three Selmer 10G clarinets (that is large capital G not the small capital G) and make sure my embouchure corrects as best to any tuning short-comings of the clarinets.
Thanks!
You bet!
Not gonna lie, seeing the extra key specifically for low F tripped me up quite a bit lol
I have an old Buffet Festival from the 90s. No correction. I am no pro so a few flat notes are not a bother for me.
Selmer for the win!!!!!!
I play a Yamaha CSG and it uses the same Mechanism as the Selmer’
The problem is clarinet players tune their B or A concert perfectly to 440khz and then play every other note sharp. An even bigger issue is the lack of tuning of each note depending on the scale and the interval of any given chord. The low F is the very least of the problem. Most people need to learn how to play in tune in an ensemble. For a period of time Canadian Military Bands required all clarinets to be R13s because they were played perfectly inconsistently together. When they are together it is most pleasant and low F really is unimportant.
Great Video! 🙂
Like some other posters I use Yamaha CSG IIIL. Pluses - it works, and you open as much or as little as you wish (for F and E). Minuses - a little awkward, and I do use a neckstrap (for other reasons). It also limits the adjustability of an adjustable thumbrest, and might well (this is speculation) prevent use of the larger ergonomic thumbrests out there. But it’s worth it for me for longer notes.
You can adjust the Yamaha correction lever by bending It, doing that you can adapt It to whatever thumb rest or adjust the thumbrest how you desire
@@christianiacuzzi1572thank you.
It looks like the Uebel and the R13 are the same, so the extra hole didn't help at all. I was wondering how it could change anything.
Also, is it possible to "lip tune" that low F? You know, by shoving the instrument up higher? That was something I always remember being told to do in band in school. The clarinets would constantly have issues playing flat (on certain notes), and would be told to push up more. I know it's really a problem in the highest register, but it would come up in other registers, too.
Recently my group is going to play Felix Mendelssohn's Overture for Wind Instruments in C, Opus 24. The clarinet part is written for Clarinet in F. Never heard of such tuning before. How do I transpose to Bb or A clarinet?
Play up a 5th on the Bb or up a 6th on the A. Better still, use an Eb and play up whole tone.
Yamaha SE Artist would have been a good inclusion in this comparison.
Didn’t have one. :)
The 12ths are in tune on my LIbertas ii, so I don't have this issue.
Listen and you can play it in tune.
not always possible... jazzy style you tune a bit high and make it lower with your mouth, but it's another culture.
Great video as always Michael. However, one can correct the horrible flat low F by proper voicing. I have a Selmer 10G, Backun MOBA, and a Uebel Zenit. I can play the Uebel in tune by voicing it correctly. The 10G is a bit tricky. Gigliotti designed the tuning so the long C is not so sharp. But again, I can get it close by correct voicing . Just my 2 cents!
You can also play in the upper register without the register key but for sure it helps..
Thank you for making this video. I recently purchased a used Buffet Tosca, and I noticed an interesting intonation quirk with it. Its middle B and C play well in tune. The low F also plays well in tune with the low F correction key. The low E, however, is noticeably flat. I've also noticed that some of the other uber-pro Buffet clarinets have a hole drilled in the bell. Do you think something like this would raise the pitch of the low E and B? Do you know of any other ways to raise the pitch of a low E, aside from using a shorter barrel?
So. Do you like the R13??? Or the Backun better.
This is great and all, but being able to afford a new instrument too attempt to solve the problem is a pipe dream😅
This is why they shouldn't have changed the tradition a ton, it has a purely cylindrical bore like the bc20, but it still works fine on the new one.
You might want to check with some calipers 😊
Very interesting. I’ll stick with my R13.
Anyone else noticed how much richer tone the Uebel has compared to the rest?
One other question: on the Selmer, how much does having the extra mechanism that has to cross the joint impact anything. I remember that both the lower Eb mechanism (by covering a right hand hole) and the B/low E key would constantly have issues on my instrument, from the day I got it. It just seems those mechanisms are prone to not working as well.
I find it easier to adjust for the low F on a soprano than my bass. Wonder how everyone else feels about this?
Hi there ,love your Channel! A personal question- is the Eb lever on left side that essential ? Can you do professional playing with just a 17/6 ? Thank you.
Yes, absolutely
@@earspasm yes for essential,or yes for 17/6 :))
@@SaxSith I will presume to answer the question correctly. Most people and very many professionals are just fine with 17/6. The left Eb has always been thought of as a bit of a luxury. There are many passages to be found in the literature that would seem to 'require' it, but all of us with 17/6 clarinets sin and 'slide' from the right pinky C or F to G# or Eb. I don't know why we are taught that sliding is illegal. Saxophones, flutes and bassoons have rollers to make sliding easy. Oboists slide, too, but they don't have rollers. German-made French clarinets offer rollers on those right hand C/F and G#/Eb keys. Why can't we do it without feeling like we're cheating or thinking the composer doesn't know anything?
What the F? When do we get another installment of Earspasm?
My Patricola CL7 C-clarinet has a vent hole in the bell. Is this what it's for?
I knew that note sounded weird
Yamaha CSG for the win! 😊
Wouldn't embouchure play a part in micro-tuning a given note as well?
to tune upwards is a challenge, especially down there... it can destroy the sound as well.
The problem is the clarinet was designed by committee... the members of which hadn't ever met each other, didn't know each other, and didn't like each other.
Excellent video! Amazon's loss is the clarinet community's gain.
Clarinets had a larger boar in the past that favored high notes being in tune.
n not the lower notes.
Getting a Clarinet to be a 3 octave horn is not straight forward.
Are they anymore in tune playing an A clarinet. CONN 1936
Does anyone know why there is an extra bottom key like a low e bass clarinet? Is the Bb clarinet low Eb extension????
Does the "fully automatic" mechanism make the register key feel heavier?
There I fixed it, Was the 912 like
Backun Lumiere all the way! OK, I'm prejudiced....but aren't we all? Why drive a stick shift when you can go automatic?
Because a stick is a lot more engaging and fun to drive!
I think race car drivers would disagree with you. And American oboists lol.
Didn't selmer clarinets have the mechanism like the backun? I believe it was selmer who did it first, why they changed it?
Yeah - the Recital had that same mechanism back in the '80s, followed by the Buffet Elite with a similar mechanism.
Why they changed it? Because Selmer. They like to do stupid shit as it suits them.
If I’m not mistaken, some people didn’t like the added weight on the already extremely heavy Recitals
@@Fumbles9001 They even offered the articulated C#/G# mechanism on some Recitals, so that too would've added extra weight to perhaps the heaviest clarinet ever built.
@@chrisperyagh 💪 💨
I have the Recital in A with low F correction, and boy it's heavy! Strap required.
strangely, yamaha's student clarinet has a low f that is in tune
yay low f
NO. Im not getting flat Fs at all!! Its a complete waste of space!! Venting makes more sense
Who cares when you are that low, for Low F
So…. Just buy a new clarinet. So simple!
Those are all “new” clarinets.
I think the Backun lumiere is clearly the worst instrument of all 😂
Do not hold clarinet in your knees!!!!
Bad title
There is no up side to sounding F't Up
😂